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Favorite REM-nant

Never worry when it's Bill Berry!

2 votes

You're always in luck with Peter Buck!

1 votes

Mike Mills has got the skills!

5 votes

Michael Stipe! Right size! Right type!

1 votes

Edgy DC Sep 21 2011 01:18 PM

REM has been around forever, and aside from shedding a aneurysm-prone drummer, has kept the same cast o' characters. Which one is the star in your show?

Vic Sage Sep 21 2011 01:32 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

They've called it quits today, after 30 years. http://music-mix.ew.com/2011/09/21/rem-breakup/ “To our Fans and Friends: As R.E.M., and as lifelong friends and co-conspirators, we have decided to call it a day as a band,” the announcement said. “We walk away with a great sense of gratitude, of finality, and of astonishment at all we have accomplished. To anyone who ever felt touched by our music, our deepest thanks for listening.” somebody should do a song poll for them.

Edgy DC Sep 21 2011 01:34 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Somebody should, but there are too many competitors.

Willets Point Sep 21 2011 01:38 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Edgy DC wrote: Somebody should, but there are too many competitors. We could do two polls: * Which brilliant song from the college rock era (1983-89) is the best of the best. * Which song from the corporate sellout era (1990-2011) sucks the least.

TransMonk Sep 21 2011 01:41 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

1. Mills for backing vocals that were equally as distinctive as Stipe's leads. 2. Buck, but mostly for his extracurricular collaborations through the years. I just heard The Replacements' "I Will Dare" during my run this morning and was thinking about the mandolin part Buck played on it. Priceless stuff. 3. Berry - eyebrows. 4. Stipe - one of my least favorite lead singers of all time. IMO, he was really only average as a songwriter, vocalist and frontman.

Edgy DC Sep 21 2011 01:47 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

I think he's a wonderful singer. It's just all seemed like such a big joke to him, or beneath him, that it was often hard to trust him. And I guess convincing people that what's coming out means something to you --- that's part of singing too.

TransMonk Sep 21 2011 01:54 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Edgy DC wrote: I guess convincing people that what's coming out means something to you --- that's part of singing too. This. Technically, his voice is correct and distinctive. But half the time I couldn't understand what he was saying and he didn't seem to care about that.

Gwreck Sep 21 2011 02:02 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Vic Sage wrote: somebody should do a song poll for them. You could do one for each side of each album.

Gwreck Sep 21 2011 02:04 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Willets Point wrote: * Which brilliant song from the college rock era (1983-89) is the best of the best. * Which song from the corporate sellout era (1990-2011) sucks the least. Point of order: 1. Green (released in 1989) was the first Warner Brothers album; and 2. Automatic for the People (released in 1992) is easily one of the 10 greatest albums of the 90s.

Vic Sage Sep 21 2011 02:11 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

"Radio Free Europe" - Murmur (1983) "So. Central Rain (I'm Sorry)" - Reckoning (1984) "Fall on Me" - Life's Rich Pageant (1986) "The One I Love" - Document (1987) "Stand" - Green (1988) "Orange Crush" "Losing My Religion" - Out of Time (1991) "Shiny Happy People" "Drive" - Automatic for the People (1992) "Everybody Hurts" "Man on the Moon" "What's the Frequency, Kenneth?" - Monster (1994) "Bang and Blame" "E-Bow the Letter" - New Adventures in Hi Fi (1996) "Bittersweet Me" Original drummer Bill Berry left the band after this last album, and they never seriously charted any new singles in the US thereafter.

Gwreck Sep 21 2011 02:15 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Those may be the biggest hits but are hardly representative of quality. I'm sure I'm leaving some off but I'd START with: Carnival of Sorts (Boxcars) Perfect Circle Second Guessing Maps and Legends Cuyahoga Disturbance at the Heron House World Leader Pretend Country Feedback Nightswimming Let Me In Electrolite Walk Unafraid Imitation of Life Leaving New York Horse to Water Blue

Edgy DC Sep 21 2011 02:17 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Yeah, that's about 50 times better.

Vic Sage Sep 21 2011 02:27 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 21 2011 02:28 PM

i was only listing singles that charted; i wasn't pretending it was comprehensive list of their best songs, just their most well-known and successful ones. they came around after my college days were done and new groups i heard after those years barely registered. That REM got thru to me at all is an indicator of their power. I will defer to anyone else's expertise in compiling a poll list for this remarkable band. But if the list doesn't have "Man on the Moon" on it, i'll have to abstain.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 21 2011 02:28 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

REM was a "sum of its parts" kinda band. I thought old-school Stipe was really ... interesting ... because his vocal stylings at the beginning were less words than sounds. "It's like a 5th instrument! It's so cool!" I'd have said. When he finally made himself understood it wasn't long before he became insufferable, even printing the (dumb) lyrics to "World Leader Pretend" on the sleeve of Green. But I have to say, when he wants to be he's a really expressive and tender vocalist, even when he's singing about something as dumb as "coriander stems and rows of hay" As I said below my estimation for Mills has risen in recent years, probably the main reason for that was the influence of gF212121 aka Swan Swan H. His harmonies were always great, I knew that, I just didn't point them out the way I would today. I like his bass playing too (the beginning of 'Maps and Legends' for example) Buck was the guy who, if I understood what I read back when I first fell for these guys in high school, was the musical genius of REM but didn't understand then it wasn't technical skill necessarily, it was the sound he liked to play and the influences he selceted. I still get wood whenever I hear jangle, and Buck jangle is all over the place now in other stuff I also like (Baseball Project, Venus 3, etc). Back in high school I used to argue with my friend Paul over who was better, REM (I'd say) or Van Halen (he'd say). Paul was (and is) a drummer and he casually dismissed Berry as being good at "fills" (for example, the beat behind the great release of tension when Stipe finally takes the "Radio Free Europe" chorus to completion) and little else. He was kind of a slow drummer but competant I guess. I definitely think their music was something less without him and maybe, prone to too much loudness.

TransMonk Sep 21 2011 02:32 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Gwreck wrote: Automatic for the People (released in 1992) is easily one of the 10 greatest albums of the 90s. I don't know that I would go as far as one fo the best of that decade...but I think it is my favorite major label album that they released. It's underrated in a very quality-rich discography.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 21 2011 02:43 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

TransMonk wrote: Gwreck wrote: Automatic for the People (released in 1992) is easily one of the 10 greatest albums of the 90s. I don't know that I would go as far as one fo the best of that decade...but I think it is my favorite major label album that they released. It's underrated in a very quality-rich discography. Agree, sorta. It's at least top-3, and maybe their best as a whole.

Gwreck Sep 21 2011 02:55 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

TransMonk wrote: I don't know that I would go as far as one fo the best of that decade.... (alphabetically) Achtung Baby Automatic for the People Blood Sugar Sex Magic The Chronic Dookie Nevermind Ten Time out of Mind (What's the Story) Morning Glory Wildflowers Not a huge fan of but wouldn't begrudge the inclusion of Exile in Guyville Metallica (Black album) Ok Computer

Edgy DC Sep 21 2011 02:56 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Ten Albums of the Nineties I'd Sooner Listen to, Rather Than Automatic for the People, Without Much Thought 1. Tomorrow the Green Grass --- Jayhawks 2. Girlfriend --- Matthew Sweet 3. Blue Days, Black Nights --- Freedy 4. Train A-Comin' --- Steve Earle 5. (What’s The Story) Morning Glory? or Definitely Maybe --- Oasis 6. Lloyd Cole --- Lloyd Cole 7. Grave Dancers Union --- Soul Asylum 8. 14 Songs --- Paul Westerberg 9. She Hangs Brightly --- Mazzy Star 10. International Pop Overthrow --- Material Issue I admit I actually had trouble. It floats out there with OK Computer by Radiohead, Achtung Baby by U2, and I Do Not Want What I Haven't Got. In all cases, I just had trouble trusting the artists at that point --- or I have trouble retroactively trusting them at this point.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 21 2011 03:01 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

'Automatic' is very good but 'Everybody Hurts'/'New Orleans Instrumental' back to back like that? Not the best. I'm also pretty ambivalent on 'Drive' as the lead single. Breathe, Monty, River, Sidewinder, Moon -- all wonderful. I'd put any the first 3 ahead of it probably Document too.

Edgy DC Sep 21 2011 03:03 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

I agree.

Gwreck Sep 21 2011 03:04 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

I think my top 5 albums are: Automatic for the People Document Life's Rich Pageant Out of Time Green

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 21 2011 03:09 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

With minimal deliberation, I'll go Automatic Life's Rich Pageant Murmur Document (could go anywhere from 4-7 on this, honestly; the production kinda kills me) Out of Time (loses 1-2 slots for "Shiny Happy" alone) Grave Dancers Union? Really? I mean, really?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 21 2011 03:11 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 21 2011 03:16 PM

I know we've done this before but here's another shot at it: Murmur Fables Reckoning * Document Automatic Lifes Rich Pageant * Out of Time Green * Accelerate/Collapse New Adventures/Reveal/Around the Sun/Up Monster

Edgy DC Sep 21 2011 03:13 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

I'm kinda a sucker for Fables of the Reconstruction, too, though Stipe subsequently disparaged it. On GDU, yeah, sure. The last band standing from Minnesota's great Twin Tone era, Soul Asylum found the market ripe for a breakthrough just as they're getting mature. In doing so, they could have gotten glossy and huge like REM, or could have grabbed grunge's coattailes and gotten junkie huge, like, um, Depeche Mode. Instead, they found a third way, and out Tom Petty'd Tom Petty. And I'm totally OK with that. If you'd prefer I add another Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers-inspired collection of excellence to add to the list, I'll give you the Gin Blossoms and New Miserable Experience. I like it like that.

Edgy DC Sep 21 2011 03:19 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Suspending Disbelief --- Jimmy Webb (1993) Wrecking Ball --- Emmylou Harris (1995) Ragged Glory --- Neil Young and Crazy Horse (1990) Nirvana was great, but I could have made it through the decade without 'em.

Willets Point Sep 21 2011 03:21 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

While not as shocking as finding out that you guys love Queen (because up to that point I thought at best thought Queen a funny thing from the 70s that people might listen to ironically) I'm surprised to see the outpouring of affection for Automatic for the People. From the self-important drone of "Drive" to the the whiny emo of "Everyone Hurts" to the cutesy earworm dreck of "Man on the Moon" it was a clear sign that R.E.M. had enjoyed having corporate suits drive a dumptruck of money up to their house and wanted more. Seriously, I'd say Automatic for the People is the low-point of their career musically and that they actually got better as the 90s went along, although like Edgy I was never able to trust them again.

bmfc1 Sep 21 2011 04:15 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Gwreck wrote: 2. Automatic for the People (released in 1992) is easily one of the 10 greatest albums of the 90s. That's my favorite R.E.M. album.

Gwreck Sep 21 2011 04:20 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Willets Point wrote: From the self-important drone of "Drive" to the the whiny emo of "Everyone Hurts" to the cutesy earworm dreck of "Man on the Moon" it was a clear sign that R.E.M. had enjoyed having corporate suits drive a dumptruck of money up to their house and wanted more. You're entitled to your opinion but the train runs off the logic tracks when you ascribe some sort of imaginary motive for the band making music you dislike. I was never able to trust them again. That's on you.

G-Fafif Sep 21 2011 04:31 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

"Twentieth century go to sleep..." Beautiful lyric.

Edgy DC Sep 21 2011 05:00 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Yeah, but look at the century that woke up.

metirish Sep 21 2011 05:17 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

I liked them , liked them plenty. There has been a song of their's stuck in my head for a good two years, prompted probably by a thread about them back around then.I can't ever remember enough of the song to know what it is, and it annoys me no end. Swan Swan is a huge fan IIRC.

metirish Sep 21 2011 05:54 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

complete concert from 1985 [youtube:2tir6wk3]player_embedded&intcmp=122[/youtube:2tir6wk3]

batmagadanleadoff Sep 21 2011 08:20 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

The 10 most frequently played REM songs, according to my iPod: 1.Exhuming McCarthy - Document 2.Feeling Gravity's Pull - Fables of the Reconstruction 3.Belong - Out of Time 4.I am Superman - Life's Rich Pageant 5.Turn You Inside-Out - Green 6.Finest Worksong - Document 7.Radio Song - Out of Time 8.Get Up - Green 9.Can't Get There From Here - Fables of the Reconstruction 10.Drive - Automatic for the People

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 21 2011 08:27 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

batmagadanleadoff wrote: The 10 most frequently played REM songs, according to my iPod: 1.Exhuming McCarthy - Document 2.Feeling Gravity's Pull - Fables of the Reconstruction 3.Belong - Out of Time 4.I am Superman - Life's Rich Pageant 5.Turn You Inside-Out - Green 6.Finest Worksong - Document 7.Radio Song - Out of Time 8.Get Up - Green 9.Can't Get There From Here - Fables of the Reconstruction 10.Drive - Automatic for the People 5, 7 and 10 no bueno. 4 is bigger than it should have been, given the repetoire. But fair fucks* to the rest of 'em. *-copyright MetIrish

batmagadanleadoff Sep 21 2011 08:29 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: The 10 most frequently played REM songs, according to my iPod: 1.Exhuming McCarthy - Document 2.Feeling Gravity's Pull - Fables of the Reconstruction 3.Belong - Out of Time 4.I am Superman - Life's Rich Pageant 5.Turn You Inside-Out - Green 6.Finest Worksong - Document 7.Radio Song - Out of Time 8.Get Up - Green 9.Can't Get There From Here - Fables of the Reconstruction 10.Drive - Automatic for the People 5, 7 and 10 no bueno. 4 is bigger than it should have been, given the repetoire. But fair fucks* to the rest of 'em. *-copyright MetIrish "Fair fucks". Is that on the same side of the spectrum as "chuffed"?

Gwreck Sep 21 2011 08:41 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

I think this would be my top 10: Country Feedback Me in Honey Electrolite The Great Beyond Orange Crush Nightswimming Second Guessing Drive Man on the Moon Carnival of Sorts (Boxcars)

seawolf17 Sep 21 2011 08:51 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Went to an REM show on the "Monster" tour at MSG, largely to impress a girl. Turns out she wasn't really interested, and neither was I. (In her or the band.) I do like that disc, though... "Kenneth" was a staple of our live show back in the day.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 21 2011 09:11 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

My one from each studio release top 16: Wolves, Lower Pilgrimage Letter Never Sent Life and How to Live It These Days Disturbance at the Heron House Untitled (No. 11) Me in Honey Find the River What's the Frequency Kenneth Electrolite Daysleeper (?) ?? (Reveal -- truly unmemorable) Leaving New York ?? - Around the Sun was bland record too Supernatural Superserious Discoverer

Number 6 Sep 21 2011 11:15 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Avi'd

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 22 2011 12:18 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Tough task, a top ten here. (It's like the inverse of the Bob Seger poll.) In no particular order: "These Days" "Losing My Religion" "Gardening At Night" "7 Chinese Bros" "Finest Worksong" "Half A World Away" "Sweetness Follows" "So. Central Rain" "Cuyahoga" "Nightswimming" "Fall On Me" "Perfect Circle" "Electrolite" "Driver 8" "Don't Go Back (To Rockville)"

batmagadanleadoff Sep 22 2011 12:28 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

The 10 most frequently played REM songs, according to my iPod: 1.Exhuming McCarthy - Document 2.Feeling Gravity's Pull - Fables of the Reconstruction 3.Belong - Out of Time 4.I am Superman - Life's Rich Pageant 5.Turn You Inside-Out - Green 6.Finest Worksong - Document 7.Radio Song - Out of Time 8.Get Up - Green 9.Can't Get There From Here - Fables of the Reconstruction 10.Drive - Automatic for the People I left out King of Birds , which topped my iPod list. Everything else shifts down one spot, driving Drive out of the top 10. Quiz tomorrow. 1.King of Birds - Document 2.Exhuming McCarthy - Document 3.Feeling Gravity's Pull - Fables of the Reconstruction 4.Belong - Out of Time 5.I am Superman - Life's Rich Pageant 6.Turn You Inside-Out - Green 7.Finest Worksong - Document 8.Radio Song - Out of Time 9.Get Up - Green 10.Can't Get There From Here - Fables of the Reconstruction 11.Drive - Automatic for the People

metsguyinmichigan Sep 22 2011 04:48 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

I like "Monster" and "New Adventures in Hi-Fi," which never seem to get a lot of love. "What's the Frequency, Kenneth?" is awesome. Back then, they were releasing a lot of CD singles that included live cuts, and I have one with the performances from SNL. The "Kenneth" from that is even better than the studio version - and they even slipped in an F-bomb without an uproar.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 22 2011 05:22 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

I like Kenneth a lot but c'mon, man. The Monster album is an absolute chore, spcially since it begins with that. Like Seawolf I went to a Monster tour show with a girl who didn't much get into it. I was only 'eh' at that point, Monster being the absolute limit of my indulgence of the sellout I secretly knew had been quietly going on since about Document. I was always very selfish with REM, they were my band, and them becoming as big as I thought they should be triggered massive cognitive dissonance and resentment on my part.

Edgy DC Sep 22 2011 05:32 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Sounds like you forgave them a lot more than I did. And certainly more than Willets. The shit I took in my freshman dorm room for showing up with an REM poster. The SHIT I TOOK FOR YOU, REM!

Edgy DC Sep 22 2011 07:12 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Edgy DC wrote: I'm kinda a sucker for Fables of the Reconstruction, too, though Stipe subsequently disparaged it. On second thought, maybe I like it in part because he subsequently disparaged it. If Stipe archly dismisses you, my sympathies fly to your side. Really, I just love that train guy in "Driver 8." I've been riding his train for a long time now.

seawolf17 Sep 22 2011 07:49 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I was always very selfish with REM, they were my band, and them becoming as big as I thought they should be triggered massive cognitive dissonance and resentment on my part. I'm the same way about Barenaked Ladies; they're a college band to me.

metirish Sep 22 2011 08:00 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

But if REM were the ultimate college band but then they outgrew that shouldn't their fans have too? I always thought it was cool not knowing what the hell Stipe was singing half the time.

sharpie Sep 22 2011 08:07 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Dave Eggers on REM (and lots of other things) but the REM part seems to be similar to the way a lot of people feel about them (not me, they were never important to me, they had some good songs). http://students.ou.edu/M/Eric.C.Mai-1/DE.htm

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 22 2011 08:13 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

I'm kinda a sucker for Fables of the Reconstruction, too, though Stipe subsequently disparaged it. On second thought, maybe I like it in part because he subsequently disparaged it. If Stipe archly dismisses you, my sympathies fly to your side. Really, I just love that train guy in "Driver 8." I've been riding his train for a long time now. Actually I think the famous quote was from Buck: "Fables sucked." Only, it didn't. Their first two records were unique unto themselves but stylistically very similar, so when Fables came out (summer of '85) they had total permission from me to stretch it out and take some risks, and that's what they did, opening with the jarring "Gravitys Pull" for a collection of off-kilter songs, many about being lost and/or traveling alone ("Maps and Legends," "Can't Get there from Here," "Kahoutek," "Wendell Gee" "Driver 8") Musically the janglers came with a pronounced Southern/Country feel to them while they dipped into funk and a more raucous delivery on "Can't Get There" and "Life and How to Live It." The former as I recall it was the one they pushed as the single but it was a little too quirky to get any traction; you could argue this album was flawed in that it had no real signature song, rather it was a collection of admirable efforts. I was mesmerized by the packaging and the dual title/side thing, it looked right-side up from any angle and the back could be the front. The Spine read: REM FABLES OF THE down from the top, and from the bottom up REM RECONSTRUCTION OF THE. It also suggested: FILE UNDER FIRE. Wow! What do they mean by that?!? My mind was easily blown at 19. I understand Buck's quote today to be about the whole process of making the album, and not just the result: It apparently was recorded during a stretch of awful winter weather in England while the boys were homesick, and with a new producer. It's kind of a fitful, murky record but REM would be making others with way too much assurance soon enough. Long Live the Fables!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 22 2011 08:30 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 22 2011 08:37 AM

I think you guys need to have a long, patient talk with your inner 15-to-19-year-olds; they're missing out on some really good-to-great music for some really thin stupid, petulant reasons. (Although the stuff starting with "Monster" got thinner and thinner, musically and lyrically; they're only underappreciated insofar as the 1-4 gems-- say, "E-bow the Letter" and "Electrolite"-- on each one go unrecognized by "fans" who dismiss the group's entire post-WB move ouevre.)

Edgy DC Sep 22 2011 08:37 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

If "Driver 8" wasn't a signature song then, it sure has become one by now. I hadn't realized that "Don't Go Back to Rockville" was a country song, so the realization that these guys were trying to delve into the sounds of a genre that at the time seemed unredeemable was really mind-expanding for me. I hadn't quite absorbed what "southern gothic" was, and was dimly aware of Flannery O'Connor, but by the time I really discovered her in college, the lights went on: "Oh, she's doing what REM was doing," when it was, of course, the opposite. I thought "Athens, Georgia" was just a cool college town, and never thought of it as the "south," and then I realized that this place --- struggling with self-identity and direction for 130 years, with reconstruction butting up against destruction, and myth butting up against reality --- was the sea these guys swim in. And that's what they're giving voice to. And that's why that voice is so ambiguous and haunting. It makes a kind of sense that it was cut in England. Even the south that they had found --- even the south that they had created --- was lost to them. There's a joke the Bottle Rockets told at the Marshall Crenshaw show last week. > What's the last thing the drummer said before he got fired? > I don't know. What? > Guys, I've been writing some songs... "Driver 8," is credited to the whole band, but is really primarily a Bill Berry song. And it's wonderful. I like to think of the driver as a first cousin of the Wichita lineman. Men who keep the commerce and communications of the country moving, but there's no country for them, and nothing is moving. The walls are built up, stone by stone, The fields divided one by one And the train conductor says "Take a break Driver 8, Driver 8 take a break We've been on this shift too long" And the train conductor says "Take a break Driver 8, Driver 8 take a break We can reach our destination, but we're still a ways away" I saw a treehouse on the outskirts of the farm The power lines have floaters so the airplanes won't get snagged Bells are ringing through the town again, Children look up, all they hear is sky-blue, bells ringing And the train conductor says "Take a break Driver 8, Driver 8 take a break We can reach our destination, but we're still a ways away" But we're still a ways away Way to shield the hated heat Way to put myself to sleep Way to shield the hated heat Way to put myself, my children to sleep He piloted this song in a plane like that one She is selling faith on the Go Tell crusade Locomotive 8, Southern Crescent hear the bells ring again Fields of wheat are lookin' thin And the train conductor says "Take a break Driver 8, Driver 8 take a break We've been on this shift too long" And the train conductor says "Take a break Driver 8, Driver 8 take a break We can reach our destination, but we're still a ways away" But we're still a ways away

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 22 2011 08:44 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Edgy DC wrote: "Driver 8," is credited to the whole band, but is really primarily a Bill Berry song. And it's wonderful. I like to think of the driver as a first cousin of the Wichita lineman. Funny-- performed reconstructed versions of this and "Lineman" back-to-back with a friend of mine at a BUNCH of open mikes during high school. (Me as wannabe moody Stipe, him as don't-give-a-fuck Buck.) Also, some acoustic Nirvana and the occasional smirky Tori Amos or novelty-rap-song cover. Ladies and gents-- the '90s!

Willets Point Sep 22 2011 09:15 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I was only 'eh' at that point, Monster being the absolute limit of my indulgence of the sellout I secretly knew had been quietly going on since about Document. I was always very selfish with REM, they were my band, and them becoming as big as I thought they should be triggered massive cognitive dissonance and resentment on my part. This. At least "Kenneth" was a rock song which can't be said about anything on "Syrupy Ballads for the People".

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 22 2011 09:24 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: I think you guys need to have a long, patient talk with your inner 15-to-19-year-olds; they're missing out on some really good-to-great music for some really thin stupid, petulant reasons. (Although the stuff starting with "Monster" got thinner and thinner, musically and lyrically; they're only underappreciated insofar as the 1-4 gems-- say, "E-bow the Letter" and "Electrolite"-- on each one go unrecognized by "fans" who dismiss the group's entire post-WB move ouevre.) I'm all about reconsidering my deeply held 19-year-old beliefs, that's what the Desert Island Mix Tape was created for. That, and being prepared just in case. These particular beliefs were just a little bit deeper. And I'm trying.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 22 2011 09:29 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Willets Point wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I was only 'eh' at that point, Monster being the absolute limit of my indulgence of the sellout I secretly knew had been quietly going on since about Document. I was always very selfish with REM, they were my band, and them becoming as big as I thought they should be triggered massive cognitive dissonance and resentment on my part. This. At least "Kenneth" was a rock song which can't be said about anything on "Syrupy Ballads for the People". TWEEEEEEET! "There are two flags on the play. Utterly unfounded argument, WP. Excessive glibness masquerading as cutting observation, WP. Both penalties are declined, because it's doofy to argue with someone who claims that rock songs need big, loud guitars to 'rock,' and tags a song collection that focuses largely on death and mortality-- and, outside of "Moon" and "Hurts," isn't pop-hooky at all-- as 'syrupy.' WP will lose a timeout, however, because petulant, little-kid arguments deserve one."

Willets Point Sep 22 2011 09:31 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

You know, I actually like Up. At the time R.E.M. had fallen from their peak of fame and the album was kind of a throwback lyrically/vocally while exploring new things musically. I never was motivated to check out any of the albums after Up so maybe there is stuff on them I would like. I think if the band had gone from Green to Up without all that stuff in-between I would've been more excited about where they were going to next.

Edgy DC Sep 22 2011 09:32 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

The nineties was an overwhelmingly nihilistic decade, musically. Am I still trying to find a place, 12 years after it's passing, to anchor myself in that decade? Absolutely. But I'm also still looking for the decade to accommodate me, as well.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 22 2011 09:38 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

A-men. Hell, I've got dozens of yearbook photos from the era, and I still can't do it. But back to '90s R. E. M. for a minute... Seriously, though: how the hell is an album loaded with mandolin and Hammond organ and meandering demi-country jams-- released in the heydays of Guns N' Roses and latter-day Metallica, rock-period-wise, and in the midst of dozens of slickly-produced club and New Jack Swing tracks-- considered a sell-out of any sort? And then dobro, even more Hammond, and AIDS ballads-plus-"Man on the Moon" just after the ascent of Nirvana and dozens of flannelers, and amidst waves of jangly Happy-Mondays soundalikes on the college-rock-radio? Do you think that someone at Warner listened to rough cuts of these and said, "This needs more downtempo waltz?"

Edgy DC Sep 22 2011 09:48 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

I like "Everybody Hurts." I'm not crazy about it, but I think it was their version of U2's "Bad" --- a cry out for human connection, explicitly declaring our common pain as the factor that should connect us, as the band alternates between two chords, getting all their character not from variety in the composition but from dynamics, swelling and falling, swelling and falling. And in a decade when folks tried hard not to say anything --- mocking and subverting the very idea of saying anything --- Stipe put his scrawny neck out and said something. He actually said something explicitly for once. Transparent where he had long been either elusive (at first) opaque (late) or gauchely ironic (still later). If it wasn't his greatest moment artistically, it might have been his most courageous.

Willets Point Sep 22 2011 09:51 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Does Bill Berry's name really rhyme with worry?

Edgy DC Sep 22 2011 09:54 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

It did in my part of Long Island.

metirish Sep 22 2011 09:57 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Guy from the Irish Times has this. http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/onthere ... know-them/ The end of REM as we know them JIM CARROLL The surprise statement from REM that they are calling it a day naturally enough dominates the music agenda as OTR goes back to work. It’s big news when a band as successful and influential as REM head for the hills. Acts who’ve lasted 31 years together don’t usually let the stuff and nonsense which comes with being in a successful band get in the way of being in that band as the years go on, as we’ve seen from the likes of U2. Success usually keeps an act together because success means you can tick off the boxes and achieve the stuff you set out to do when you and your bandmates were callow youths in Athens, Georgia. After all, very few of REM’s peers from the early 1980s are still in the game because the rate of attrition is greater on the lower rungs of the ladder. REM had an unsurpassable golden age when every album, every track, every video was worth observing and experiencing. As the band developed musically with early albums like “Murmur” and “Lifes Rich Pageant”, they became a band you kept the faith with and the bond between them and their fans was always an intense one. Even when mainstream success arrived with “Green” and “Out of Time” – the move from IRS to Warner Bros giving them the marketing and promotional muscle they had lacked in their early days – that bond with the believers continued through the strength and quality of the music. But it was during the later years of the 1990s, as REM firmly established themselves as the stadium rock band it was OK to like, that quality control problems set in with material. You could chalk this down to internal problems – the departure of drummer Bill Berry due to serious health concerns and a parting of the ways with original manager Jefferson Holt – but REM’s music no longer reached beyond the band’s heartland. Of course, given the size of that fanbase, it was more than enough to keep the band in clover, but as every new REM album which promised to be a return to form failed to live up to its billing, those outside that tent began to lose interest and find other acts to champion. The spin behind albums like “Around the Sun” and “Reveal” just didn’t convince you when you listened to the tracks. The band themselves sounded like they were going through the motions, trying to show to themselves and others that they were still making music as vital and essential and life-affirming as had been the case decades earlier. As with so many heritage acts, though, it was just not as convincing, exciting, revealing or good as that earlier material. Ironically, given the events of yesterday, this year’s “Collapse Into Now” was probably the best of their recent vintage, an album which had a snap and a crackle to it which previous releases lacked. There will be a lengthy mourning period following REM’s demise. They had a huge fanbase, ranging from people who had them as the soundtrack to their teenage years in the 1980s (they were a staple on the Dave Fanning radio shows which took me through that decade) to those who fell in love with them when “Out of Time” became a massive worldwide best-seller. They could still fill the big rooms and REM coming to town for a show was always an occasion to savour for many. They were a band many people genuinely loved and admired. But all good things do come to an end and REM leave the pitch in a very dignified manner with standing ovations from all sides. It’s true to say that we’ll probably never see their likes again. There are very few bands of a similar ilk left in the game and, given the changes we see in the music business with every passing week, it’s becoming harder and harder to see how a band like REM can rise from indie roots to worldwide acclaim and success. They were one of the last remaining relics of music’s old world order. Whatever about any reunion tour which might come down the line when tempting offers are despatched to Athens or any solo albums to inevitably come (a Michael Stipe solo album could well be better than anything they’ve released in years), they leave behind a well stocked back-catalogue and memories of superb shows at venues like Dublin’s SFX, RDS, Olympia and Lansdowne Road. You couldn’t ask for anything more.

TransMonk Sep 22 2011 10:02 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

After reading his wiki page, I found I did not know that Bill Berry's family lived in Wauwatosa, WI when he was between the ages of 3 and 10. That's my wife's hometown.

metsguyinmichigan Sep 22 2011 10:04 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

My top 10, which I realize will be very different than everyone elses: 1) Kenneth 2) Baby Baby* 3) Bittersweet Me 4 Nightswimming 5) Fall on Me 6) Leaving New York 7) Shiny Happy People 8) Finest Work Song 9) Imitation of Life 10) Begin the Begin *It's an obscure cover that I found on a boot. Was a fan club single or something. I love it.

Willets Point Sep 22 2011 10:04 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

I voted for Berry just because I always liked that he retired to become a farmer.

Edgy DC Sep 22 2011 10:04 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Jim Carroll's still alive? Seriously, though: how the hell is an album loaded with mandolin and Hammond organ and meandering demi-country jams-- released in the heydays of Guns N' Roses and latter-day Metallica, rock-period-wise, and in the midst of dozens of slickly-produced club and New Jack Swing tracks-- considered a sell-out of any sort? And then dobro, even more Hammond, and AIDS ballads-plus-"Man on the Moon" just after the ascent of Nirvana and dozens of flannelers, and amidst waves of jangly Happy-Mondays soundalikes on the college-rock-radio? Do you think that someone at Warner listened to rough cuts of these and said, "This needs more downtempo waltz?" To the extent that the sellout accusation holds water for that era, I'd say that dwelling on AIDS and society's failures, and portraying these folks as victims of crucifiction by a morally bankrupt nation, rotting away on the vine after 12 years of Republican stewardship, were more marketable notions in the immediate aftermath of Nevermind. * Yes, I am sort of merging Out of Time and Automatic for the People here, but in trying to give this question the consideration it deserves, I'm kind of tempted to broaden the arc of the band's career that we're framing.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 22 2011 11:58 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 22 2011 06:36 PM

Jim Carroll's still alive? Seriously, though: how the hell is an album loaded with mandolin and Hammond organ and meandering demi-country jams-- released in the heydays of Guns N' Roses and latter-day Metallica, rock-period-wise, and in the midst of dozens of slickly-produced club and New Jack Swing tracks-- considered a sell-out of any sort? And then dobro, even more Hammond, and AIDS ballads-plus-"Man on the Moon" just after the ascent of Nirvana and dozens of flannelers, and amidst waves of jangly Happy-Mondays soundalikes on the college-rock-radio? Do you think that someone at Warner listened to rough cuts of these and said, "This needs more downtempo waltz?" To the extent that the sellout accusation holds water for that era, I'd say that dwelling on AIDS and society's failures, and portraying these folks as victims of crucifiction by a morally bankrupt nation, rotting away on the vine after 12 years of Republican stewardship, were more marketable notions in the immediate aftermath of Nevermind. * Yes, I am sort of merging Out of Time and Automatic for the People here, but in trying to give this question the consideration it deserves, I'm kind of tempted to broaden the arc of the band's career that we're framing. It occurs to me in retrospect how much Nevermind and In Utero-- and most of that particular grunge strain-- owed to the Stipes of the world, lyrically speaking. Pearl Jam and Soundgarden and the Screaming Trees and (insert band here)? They told stories. I nearly lost you, there... Jeremy spoke in class today... I'm feeling outshined (possibly due in part to my looking California/feeling Minnesota). Impressionist/expressionist stories, with superheightened, murk-washed emotions and grand, symbolic gestures... but there was narrative, nonetheless. Hell, even the influences he name-checked-- the Melvins, the Vaselines, the Pixies, even-- were more linear in terms of wordcraft. But Cobain? He was ALL about mood over meaning, and the sounds of words creating atmosphere. He mumbled and screamed, but he never told. He may not have worn the alumni sweatshirt, but "A mulatto, an albino, a mosquito, my libido" and "I've been drawn into your magnet tar in a trap/I wish I could eat your cancer when you turn black" mark him as a proud graduate of the University of Murmur (Go, Fighting Wolves, Lower!)

Edgy DC Sep 22 2011 12:02 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Splash it up on the wall. Let the critics figure it out.

metirish Sep 22 2011 12:04 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Singing unrecognizable lyrics was a Stipe staple no? Tom Dunne who used to front an Irish band called Something Happens but it now a talk radio host mentioned this morning how they used to cover an REM song(forgot which one) and he had no idea what the lyrics were so he would hum and mumble his way through ....this was the 80's.....he recently interviewed Stipe and brought that up, Stipe laughed and said he didn't know the lyrics either and in fact found an online posting recently by someone who claimed to know the lyrics and he thought yeah I'll use those from now on.

Edgy DC Sep 22 2011 12:16 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

I was def a Something Happens! fan. I could be wrong, but I think the "!" was part of the name. I remember it that way, anytuck. I think Dunne stole Peter Frampton's hair. [youtube:1dpoij7a]6PBzmpT0yQE[/youtube:1dpoij7a]

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 22 2011 12:45 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Edgy DC wrote: I was def a Something Happens! fan. I could be wrong, but I think the "!" was part of the name. I remember it that way, anytuck. I think Dunne stole Peter Frampton's hair. [youtube]6PBzmpT0yQE[/youtube] I only heard that song for the first time when DJ Wonderful Woody played it on turntable. I since listened to their entire streamable catalog but nothing that good again. I like the way Dunne sings with his shoulders.

metsguyinmichigan Sep 22 2011 09:16 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Call me skeptical, but did the announce a reunion tour yet? I can see them taking three or so years off, then doing something -- rock and roll hall of fame event? -- then hitting the road with batteries recharged.

Gwreck Sep 22 2011 09:39 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

They got inducted into Hall of Fame in 2007. Over the past few years I've had a theory (and a few bucks tucked away) that there will come a day that there will be a charity/benefit show that will include Bill Berry which will result in me getting on a plane to go see it. But a full-fledged reunion tour? Not in the cards. I think Stipe is done with the medium and I wouldn't be shocked if we never see him put a full-length album out of any kind or perform live again.

Edgy DC Sep 22 2011 10:33 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

REM, Document-ed in the Archives: "BLC: REM v. Aerosmith" "Yeah sure you're curious just like me" "BLC: They Might Be Giants vs. R.E.M." "BLC: The Cure vs. REM" "Jump... no Stand" "'She's the One' v. 'The One I Love'" "Elimination Round: 'She's the One' v. 'The One I Love'" "Music Ink Blots" "Live and in Person, 2009" (search the page for "R.E.M.") "Outage Discovery: Bands I Useta Like"

Gwreck Sep 22 2011 11:39 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Some good stuff in there. Found a "these are my top 10 R.E.M. songs" that has only 4 of the same ones in the list I posted this week. The '09 concert thread has a mention of the REM Tribute at Carnegie Hall which was the last time I ever saw the band perform as REM. Here's the 2007-08 Concert Thread. In there is some discussion following what is now the last headlining show I saw them do (at the Garden in June 2008). Sasha Frere-Jones of the New Yorker referenced the show in his recent article about the band's breakup, calling the show "as powerful and coherent as I’d ever seen them."

metirish Sep 23 2011 04:57 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

I still would like that Independent tally of the votes for The Cure V REM, fun times.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 23 2011 07:12 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

That cartoon was awesome. That's me in the first panel.

Edgy DC Sep 23 2011 07:20 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

"Wolves, Lower" is the #8 song of 1981.

seawolf17 Sep 23 2011 08:58 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Such boolshit that REM beat Aerosmith. That BLC was such a bizarre experiment.

Edgy DC Sep 23 2011 09:00 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

I need a web designer to help me change it into an internet sensation.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 23 2011 09:09 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

seawolf17 wrote: Such boolshit that REM beat Aerosmith. That BLC was such a bizarre experiment. It was a 67-33 slaughter including your 10-zip ballot stuff! I think that was a fair result too: Aerosmith had a few great power hitters but lacked the bench strength of REM.

Edgy DC Sep 23 2011 11:58 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

REM at Shea. Had no idea Murmur hadn't been released yet. I feel I was pretty familiar with them at that point, but how familiar could I have been?

Willets Point Sep 23 2011 12:24 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

I've been wonderfully consistent over time.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 23 2011 01:07 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Murmur was out in spring of 1983. (checks actual date)April 12. So they did have something to sell at the concession stand. In related news I saw where they were planning to re-launch I.R.S. records. I used to have a baseball-style shirt with this guy on the front and a list of all the IRS artists on the back.

Edgy DC Sep 23 2011 01:19 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

All my IRS records came with an ad to order that shirt and "Get the IRS on your back!"

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 23 2011 01:20 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Yes! That was where I got it! Probably from an English Beat or REM record.

Willets Point Sep 23 2011 01:39 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Better than the original: [youtube:1isfemxb]3BVSvjOY4g4[/youtube:1isfemxb]

Gwreck Sep 23 2011 09:50 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

The 1993 MTV Video Music Awards were arguably the best ever. In addition to Peter guesting with Soul Asylum, REM performed Everybody Hurts and then a ripping version of Drive. I remember watching as if it were last week. [youtube:28xoz6pq]http://youtu.be/hoL4sWtcZpA[/youtube:28xoz6pq]

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 26 2011 02:34 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Here's the thing about New Adventures in Hi-Fi which I'm listening to today: It takes an hour to play it. That's because there are too many songs on it AND that most of those songs are 5 and a half minutes long. Add to it a little more dreary subject matter, dumb song tiles, and fuzzy sound than I like in my REM, and you have a pretty good reason for people like me to consider from a distance that they'd jumped the shark (or rather, continued waterskiing in their leather jackets). That said, it's a real improvement on Monster and I've underrated it. Be Mine, Departure, Electrolite: Quality stuff that I can see as a continuation of the REM story, rather than some booshit new thing. This came out in 2006 and was Berry's last record. [youtube]1LewYq40Svw[/youtube]

Frayed Knot Sep 26 2011 03:08 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 28 2011 06:21 AM

Here's the thing about New Adventures in Hi-Fi which I'm listening to today: It takes an hour to play it. That's because there are too many songs on it AND that most of those songs are 5 and a half minutes long. I've made this point before (although it has nothing to do with REM specifically) but one of the negative side effects of the vinyl-to-CD changeover was that the technology no longer limited the artists to ~ 40 minutes & 12 tracks. You think that wouldn't matter to an established band like REM but I always thought that there were a bunch of artists who, while they might not have killed their careers with a lack of self-editing, almost certainly damaged a potential takeoff by having debut efforts that ran the likes of 17 tracks and 70 minutes long. Back in the vinyl heyday that would require a double-album which was something few if any new artists could get the go-ahead for and only a small pct of the ones that did get released were able to drum up a combination of both commercial and critical success (compilations aside). I even remember a thread on the old forum where we took one of those select few - the White Album - and "edited" it down to a single disc just to see what a (different kind of) monster that would have been. Back to this example; cut 'New Adventures' by 15+ minutes and I bet the album has both a better history at the time and better memories now.

bmfc1 Sep 27 2011 03:56 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Great job by Edgy for his discussion of "Driver 8." It's on their recent Live CD (one of the few hits on the record as the shows were rehearsals for the "Accelerate" record). Beautiful harmonies by Stipe and Mills.

Gwreck Sep 27 2011 11:23 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

I loved that most recent live album. Even as much as I miss Berry's drumming, I felt that the old songs really came alive in ways they didn't on record. Second Guessing, Carnival of Sorts, Letter Never Sent, Feeling Gravity's Pull -- all great versions.

metirish Sep 28 2011 04:44 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Ha, REM "Best Of" release on the way, just heard it on the radio, next week I think he said.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 28 2011 05:15 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Yeah, 3 new songs on it too.

Edgy DC Sep 28 2011 05:45 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

So, the breakup news becomes marketing gold.

bmfc1 Sep 28 2011 02:23 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Gwreck wrote: I loved that most recent live album. Even as much as I miss Berry's drumming, I felt that the old songs really came alive in ways they didn't on record. Second Guessing, Carnival of Sorts, Letter Never Sent, Feeling Gravity's Pull -- all great versions. Same with Maps & Legends and Sitting Still.

Willets Point Sep 28 2011 06:51 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

For those of you who took umbrage at "the dump truck of money" I've thought of better analogy. Think of R.E.M. as a baseball player coming up with a small-market team. In the 80s, listening to R.E.M. was like seeing that player come up to the majors, play great baseball, break records, and make you feel more excited about baseball than you have in years. "Out of Time" was like seeing that player at a press conference donning a pinstripe jersey and declaring that he's always wanted to play for the Yankees. "Automatic for the People" was like seeing that player showered in tickertape and hailed as a World Series hero - despite only hitting .200 in the postseason - because he scored the winning run for the Yankees in a game marred by fan interference and blown calls by the umps.

Gwreck Sep 28 2011 09:34 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

I've never understood why -- when a band breaks up, or a band member dies, or something else similarly traumatic happens -- that is the time people choose to explain how much they disliked that band.

Edgy DC Sep 28 2011 09:37 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

I would guess it's because the publicity makes them a topic of conversation.

G-Fafif Sep 29 2011 06:00 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Edgy DC wrote: So, the breakup news becomes marketing gold. $499 "limited edition" CDs are available, signed by Mariano Rivera.

Edgy DC Oct 19 2011 09:25 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

Wow, i just listened to the "final single," and for somebody leaning Willets' way regarding the band's post-1990 catalog, I just... love it. It somehow manages to reference the band's entire career without making a self-consicous chore of referencing the band's whole career, and it's clearly a swan song, without any of the bombast and destruction that term may imply.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 19 2011 10:57 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

strings and flutes and stuff, though.

Edgy DC Oct 19 2011 11:08 AM Re: Favorite REM-nant

And while that references their Out of Time baroque period, it has that muted horn sound that can only suggest somebody has been listening to to Bacharach. Which, if you're going to orchestrate, is the sort of orchestration that better respects the ground that REM had layed out.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 19 2011 08:25 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

And the verse has a little Fables lilt, with a little Up aftertaste. Yeah, I see what you're saying.

Edgy DC Oct 19 2011 08:40 PM Re: Favorite REM-nant

The chord changes remind me a little of "Believe" by Cher.