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Mets - Rays talk trade

Johnny Dickshot Nov 09 2005 07:38 AM

Mets' stove is hot for D-Rays BY BILL MADDEN in Indian Wells, Calif. and ROGER RUBIN in New York DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITERS Wednesday, November 9th, 2005 The Mets would love to see Billy Wagner save 45 games for them next year and for Manny Ramirez to knock in 140 runs. They also know that landing the flame-throwing free-agent closer and dealing for the Boston slugger are far from sure things. So they are fashioning a contingency plan and it's a pretty tasty one, too. The Daily News has learned that Mets general manager Omar Minaya is laying the foundation for a potential trade with the Tampa Bay Devil Rays for closer Danys Baez and first baseman Aubrey Huff. At the GM meetings in California yesterday, a Devil Rays executive told The News that Minaya initiated discussions about a deal for Baez or Huff, or both. The executive also said the Tampa contingent found the preliminary talks interesting and worth pursuing. The most-likely scenario in which the Mets and Devil Rays would consummate such a deal - Tampa wants pitching in return - would be if the Mets fail in their bid to land Wagner. But even if they do get him, it could serve them in other ways. The Red Sox need relief pitching and a first baseman, and Baez or Huff could be used as part of a package in a trade for Ramirez. The Mets tried to pull of a similar type of trade for Ramirez in July. The power-hitting Huff has averaged 101 RBI the past three seasons and he plays a fair first base. Baez saved 41 games this year and could bolster a Mets bullpen that may lose both Braden Looper and Roberto Hernandez. "It's the perfect fallback," one baseball official said. The Mets and Rays are a good fit because each has something the other needs. The Mets must get a closer and cleanup hitter and the Rays have both. The Rays want young starting pitching and the Mets are one of the few teams with a surplus, including Aaron Heilman, Jae Seo and minor leaguer Yusmeiro Petit. With new revenue from a fledgling TV network, the Mets have deep enough pockets to pay both Huff ($6.75 million) and Baez ($4 million) in the last years of their contracts. "I think it's way too early in the game for any of these talks to be termed serious," the Tampa Bay exec said. "All these clubs have so many other avenues they are pursuing." Tampa's plan is to contend for a pennant in 2007 and 2008 and neither Baez nor Huff is a part of it. The Rays are working on long-term deals with outfielder Rocco Baldelli and 100-RBI infielder Jorge Cantu. The Mets consider their chances of landing Ramirez as somewhat remote since he made his most recent demand for the Red Sox to trade him. Ramirez, whose agent said the outfielder did not want to play for the Mets, would prefer going to the Angels or Indians, and as a 10-and-5 player, can veto any deal. Still, things could fall the Mets' way because Ramirez isn't necessarily a good fit in Anaheim or Cleveland. The Angels' top priority appears to be free-agent first baseman Paul Konerko, who still could return to the White Sox. Failing that, they would turn their sights to Ramirez. While Angels owner Arte Moreno can afford to pay Ramirez the final $57 million over three years of his pact, the team already has a left fielder in Garret Anderson, and there are concerns about how Ramirez's lapses in focus will play with manager Mike Scioscia. The Indians had a team payroll of just over $40 million this season and probably couldn't afford Ramirez. "At this point we would have to wait to see if they (the Red Sox) came back to us, and that doesn't look likely," a Mets operative said.

Edgy DC Nov 09 2005 08:05 AM

I should just log out in October and return in February.

metirish Nov 09 2005 09:26 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 09 2005 10:00 AM

So is Omar looking to make this deal for Baez and Huff to then just turn them into Manny?, on it's own Baez anf Huff to the Mets would be OK, certainly cheaper in terms of prospects and money than any straight up Manny deal would be.

Johnny Dickshot Nov 09 2005 09:45 AM

Yup.

smg58 Nov 09 2005 10:35 AM

That depends on what the D-Rays want in order to make this deal work. The previous GM asked exorbitant prices when dealing players (and, alas, got it once). One of these years they might consider trying to compete, too. I'm all for keeping options open, but I'd hate to think the D-Rays finally brought in a new GM just to give guys away more cheaply than the last one did, especially when they're finally on the verge of having enough talent on the major-league level to actually win some games.

Rotblatt Nov 09 2005 10:47 AM

Hm. Huff regressed last year, posting only a .749 OPS (98 OPS+). That's well below average for a first baseman. His Isolated Power has dropped each of the past 3 years (.244 to .197 to .167), and while he can take a walk and doesn't strike out too much, he's hardly an on-base machine (OBP over the past 3 years=.347; career=.342). The fact that he only turns 29 next year and has three solid seasons under his belt means he might rebound this year, but that consistent decline in power is troubling. Baez was decent, but hardly dominant, and while his ERA was tasty, his peripherals (except for HR/9) have been dropping, which is odd considering how young he is. 2005 6.31 K/9, 1.7 K/BB, .87 HR/9, 1.33 WHIP (151 ERA+) 2004 6.88 K/9, 1.8 K/BB, .79 HR/9, 1.31 WHIP (125 ERA+) 2003 7.85 K/9, 2.9 K/BB, 1.07 HR/9, 1.15 WHIP (112 ERA+) His ERA in 2005 looks like a fluke. It'd be foolish to expect him to be much better than a healthy Looper--decent, and certainly worth $4M--but not the "ace closer" Minaya seems to want. They've both got upside, and we certainly need a 1B and another decent reliever can't hurt, but I really, really hope we're not planning on giving up too much for them. I could see trading one of Seo, Heilman or Petit, plus a B-type prospect . . . Probably not enough to get it done, but IMO, there's no way we should give up more than one of those three.

Valadius Nov 09 2005 05:32 PM

No Huff. Please. He's a disaster in the making.

rpackrat Nov 09 2005 05:43 PM

You base that opinion on what, exactly? A 29 year old with a career .288-.342-.478 line, (115 OPS+) is well worth considering, IMHO.

Vic Sage Nov 09 2005 05:58 PM

it ALWAYS depends on how much we give up. so lets put that issue aside for a moment. Are Huff and Baez worth having? I've liked Huff alot, from a distance, without looking very closely. So I would've said yes, but the Rottweiler makes some interesting observations about him that give me pause. Especially the continuing drop in power for 3 straight years. Baez? i agree that he's no better than Looper was 2 years ago... which isn't bad but isn't an "ace" either. As to price... I would LOVE to give them back Zambrano, but i don't think they'd be interested. I'm not so pursuaded by Seo, Heilman or Petit that i'd reject a deal that included one of them, but not 2. How about Trax, Petit and maybe Bannister, or other similar low-minors prospect? If we got them and flipped them (+pitcher) for Manny, i wouldn't be heartbroken. Frankly, i think the D-Rays still owe us something more for Kazmir, so they should just give us Huff and Baez for Zambrano straight up!

Nymr83 Nov 09 2005 06:40 PM

there are plenty of guys = to Baez out there. as for Huff, looking at his 2005 numbers i'd be inclined to pass on him unless there are no grade A/B+ prospects and no valuable major leagyers in the deal. Milledge, Petit, and Seo should be out of bounds in discussing this guy. if they want Bannister for him, hey, its worth a shot. but all of this is, i hope, a backup plan if we don't sign Konerko or a prelude to another trade.

Rotblatt Nov 10 2005 10:54 AM

="Vic Sage"]How about Trax, Petit and maybe Bannister, or other similar low-minors prospect? If we got them and flipped them (+pitcher) for Manny, i wouldn't be heartbroken. I'd probably do Trax, Petit & Bannister for Huff & Baez. Especially if it meant we could get Manny. Lugo's a FA next year and his 06 salary is at $5M, so Tampa might be open to trading him, and the Sox need a 2B. We need a C. In that scenario, here's the result (additions in italics): D-Rays Trachsel, Petit, Bannister, Diaz Mets Manny, Shoppach Red Sox Huff, Baez, Cameron, Lugo From Tampa's perspective, they would save a whopping $13M, which they could use to fill holes at short & closer, in addition to netting a good prospect and a solid, inexpensive pitcher. Boston actually takes on $3.25M in salary, but they fill a hole at first with a quality bat (potentially, anyway). They also eliminate the need to resign Damon, and Lugo would be a nice bridge to Pedroia. They also solidify their pen for Foulke. Boston's the weak point here. Huff (coming off a down year), Baez (weak peripherals) & Cameron (coming off a serious injury) all have real questions. Unless the Sox are desperate, I don't see them doing this deal.

Rotblatt Nov 10 2005 11:10 AM

Hm. More info from the Post. ]The Mets have a lot of interest in Tampa Bay second baseman Julio Lugo, according to an MLB executive. Lugo, whom the Mets pursued before the trade deadline, hit .295 with 39 steals this past year. Keep in mind that Tampa Bay likes Met prospect Yusmeiro Petit. The executive said the Mets may also go after Tampa first baseman Aubrey Huff. The Mets also have interest in Tampa Bay closer Danys Baez - they have had interest in him since spring training - and catcher Toby Hall. I like Lugo and think he'd be a nice acquisition. I'd rather start Castro than trade for and start Hall, who's never cracked a .683 OPS in a full season.

Yancy Street Gang Nov 10 2005 11:13 AM

I think if the Mets feel that they have to deal Petit or Milledge, I'd rather see Petit go and Milledge stay.

Rotblatt Nov 11 2005 11:18 AM

Hm. From the Post: ]The Mets remain interested in Tampa 2B Julio Lugo and closer Danys Baez, another AL executive said, and the teams talked on Wednesday night. The Mets also like C Toby Hall and 1B Aubrey Huff, and had talks about a potential three-team deal with the Rangers and Devil Rays in which the Mets would get Adrian Gonzalez and Gerald Laird from Texas and send them to Tampa, though nothing is believed to be imminent. Seems smart to me. Texas wants MLB-ready pitching, so we wouldn't have to give up prospects. Gonzalez seems solid--had a nice year at AAA--and Laird looks like he could be a regular C. He hit .310/.372/.562 with 12 SB in AAA last year (281 AB) at the age of 25. In the bigs, he hit only .225/.261/.350 but it was only 40 at bats. He's also superfluous for Texas, since they already have Barajas. I'd be shocked if we acquired a catcher like that only to send him to Texas but I guess Minaya's fixated on Molina for whatever reason. Anyway, if this rumor is true, we might be able to get away with the following: Mets Baez, Lugo Rangers Zambrano/Trachsel + Bannister? DRays Gonzalez, Laird I'm assuming that Gonzalez & Laird isn't enough to land Huff in addition to Baez & Lugo. This looks like a pretty sweet deal to me, although I'd prefer the following: Mets Lugo, Laird, Baez Rangers Zambrano/Trachsel, Bannister? DRays Gonzalez, Gaby Hernandez?

HahnSolo Nov 11 2005 11:39 AM

I thought Trax was a 10 and 5 guy. Would he really approve a deal that sends him to either Texas or Tampa Bay?

Yancy Street Gang Nov 11 2005 11:41 AM

He wouldn't approve it without some financial compensation. That's something that would be part of the overall trade negotiation. The Mets would have to make the other team happy, and they'd have to pay to make Trachsel happy.

sharpie Nov 11 2005 11:52 AM

And didn't Trachsel leave Tampa Bay to go to New York?

Valadius Nov 11 2005 12:19 PM

Yeah, he did.

Diamond Dad Nov 11 2005 01:47 PM Let's not get carried away

Too many trades are just to get somebody else - no matter who. Everyone seems to look better when they're not on your team. Huff doesn't look like a first baseman to me. 2005 he played mostly outfield -- some third base, and DH, with only 25 games at 1st. Not really a first baseman. Last year played mostly 3B and DH. This year's numbers -- .260 batting average, 26 doubles, 22 homers, 70 runs scored, 92 RBI in 575 AB -- not great. Better than Jacobs for 575 AB? Maybe not. Probably worse defensively than Jacobs. Discount the RBI numbers since he was in AL and had a team of rabbits ahead of him. I'm not jumping to trade good prospects in order to get this guy as an "upgrade" at 1B. Lugo is also not a sure thing. First off, he's a SHORTSTOP and we already have one. Switching him to 2B may seem like no big deal -- but I think we've been through that before, haven't we????? Last year he hit .295 and stole 39 bases while scoring 89 runs in 616 AB. Somehow those steals didn't translate into mega runs scored. Why? His On base percentage was .360, so that's not bad, but do we really want a 1-2 punch of Reyes and Lugo? It's not a terrible option, but again I would not be running to give up prospects and good players based on the idea that Lugo moving to 2B is going to be a great upgrade for us over our other options.

Valadius Nov 11 2005 01:50 PM

I gotta get my dad on the phone to talk to his buddies...

abogdan Nov 13 2005 01:31 PM

I like Lugo as a player a lot. Solid OBP that even if he regresses back towards .340 will be light years better than what the Mets got from 2B or the #2 spot in the lineup last year. I agree, though, that the Mets shouldn't give up too much of anything for him. Definitely not one of their top 5 prospects.

Elster88 Nov 14 2005 09:20 AM

]This year's numbers -- .260 batting average, 26 doubles, 22 homers, 70 runs scored, 92 RBI in 575 AB -- not great. Better than anything we've had at first for a pretty long time. ]Better than Jacobs for 575 AB? Maybe not. On the other hand, maybe so. ]Probably worse defensively than Jacobs. I'll admit to ignorance on his defensive skills. How can we know one way or the other without seeing more of him, and more of Jacobs? Did you really watch a lot of Tampa's games this year? ] Discount the RBI numbers since he was in AL and had a team of rabbits ahead of him. He played for the Devil Rays, and you want to discount RBI totals? If anything, increase them. ] I'm not jumping to trade good prospects in order to get this guy as an "upgrade" at 1B. I'm all for giving Jacobs a shot. But if you can get a proven hitter, and keep Jacobs' in the system, there's nothing wrong with that.

Elster88 Nov 14 2005 09:22 AM

Baez and one of the free agents would make our bullpen pretty disgusting. And if we trade one or two of the starters then Heilman gets a shot. Edit: This is a proud day for me. My first post as Ray Knight. _____________________________ This post had the designation 126) Ray Knight

Edgy DC Nov 14 2005 09:25 AM

Huff was pretty good from 2002-2004. Outside of staying healthy, he wasn't much last year.

rpackrat Nov 14 2005 02:17 PM

Huff did have an off year last year, but was still OK. In light of the comments in another thread that the Mets would be hesitant to start Diaz in RF if Cameron is traded, maybe they're looking at Huff as a rightfielder, and part time 1B/3B.

Nymr83 Nov 14 2005 03:28 PM

if you get Huff expecting last year's numbers then you might as well not get Huff....i'd take my chances on Jacobs reproducing those stats. Its not like he's coming off multiple bad years though, he had a few good years and then a mediocre one, i'd have to say the odds are in his favor that his 2006 stats are better than his 2005 stats.

Edgy DC Nov 14 2005 03:34 PM

Huff was OK last year compared to Mientkiewicz, but his OPS+ was slightly below league average. I'm OK with players who hit at the league average, but the Mets should be very careful about what they give up in such a case. John Olerud dipped in his late twenties. The Mets took advantage of that and absolutely stole him from Toronto.