Master Index of Archived Threads


Mets Deal Cameron to San Diego

ABG Nov 16 2005 02:11 PM

For 1b/of Xavier Nady http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-spmets111705,0,3501142.story?coll=ny-mets-bigpix

seawolf17 Nov 16 2005 02:14 PM

Wh-WHA?!?! Interesting deal. (1) Solves the first-base problem. He can platoon with Jacobs; they're probably very similar offensively. (2) He's going to be 27 next year, which puts him smack-dab in the beginning of his prime. (3) Saves the Mets some cash (unless they paid part or all of Cameron's salary, which is likely). I like it.

cooby Nov 16 2005 02:15 PM

Plus it creates a spot for Manny

sharpie Nov 16 2005 02:15 PM

Unless they plan to play him in right. (on edit) Wouldn't Cameron have been in any Manny trade?

Willets Point Nov 16 2005 02:17 PM

What do we know about Xavier Nady?

metirish Nov 16 2005 02:17 PM

Could it be Nady will be on his way to Boston, they need a first baseman?

sharpie Nov 16 2005 02:18 PM

He is the greatest hitter whose first or last name begins with the letter X.

Centerfield Nov 16 2005 02:20 PM

Xavier Nady: .261, 13 HR, 43 RBI, .760 OPS Ok. Now, someone explain to me why this deal makes sense.

seawolf17 Nov 16 2005 02:26 PM

CF- Nady is younger, cheaper, creates offense at a position where we need some offense (those stats are in 350 AB), can play the outfield if need be, and yes, he can be used as better trade bait down the road than an aging strikeout machine who can play defense. I still like this deal.

metirish Nov 16 2005 02:27 PM

I can't but my people are telling me that Omar is going to flip Nady and other pieces in a bigger deal.

Johnny Dickshot Nov 16 2005 02:28 PM

Wow.

metirish Nov 16 2005 02:29 PM

I doubt Cameron will be upset over this, I'll miss him though, he's a good guy...

Frayed Knot Nov 16 2005 02:32 PM

Well, I like it better than if he gone for relief pitching as was rumored. [url=http://www.baseball-reference.com/n/nadyxa01.shtml]Xavier Nady[/url] was a fairly highly touted prospect a few years back. IIRC, his 2004 was cut short due to an injury of some kind. Positives: He's younger (just turned 27), cheaper (maybe arb eligible), and we've probably already seen Cameron's ceiling who isn't ideally suited for RF anyway. Nady can play 1st or the OF - I seem to remember the Pads wanting to move him to 1st although I'm not sure if that was due to the fact that he wasn't that good out there or just a numbers situation. Maybe both. Hits righty so can platoon w/Jacobs at 1st. Negatives: Not as fast, worse glove if an OFer. Not as good a bat now and maybe never will hit as well. Maybe someone else would have given us more. I always like Cammy, probably more than most Met fans and maybe more than he deserved. I just thought his 61 extra-base hit season in '04 was brushed off due to overblown BA & K numbers. Plus his less-than gold glove season in CF was treated as if he was a stumbling bum by know-nothings who acted as if they were guaranteed an errorless season. Projected typical Met fan reaction: "Good, Cameron SUCKS ... why didn't we get more for him?" And speculation will surely start that this is a prelude to another trade (see Ramirez, Manny)

G-Fafif Nov 16 2005 02:39 PM

San Diego of all places. Hope Cammy doesn't have flashbacks.

Elster88 Nov 16 2005 02:39 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 16 2005 02:40 PM

Frayed Knot wrote: Well, I like it better than if he gone for relief pitching as was rumored. Yeah, but not much better. Does anyone else think that he's could've brought more back? _____________________________ This post had the designation 124) Harry Parker

ScarletKnight41 Nov 16 2005 02:40 PM

I'm surprised. I probably shouldn't be. But I am.

Diamond Dad Nov 16 2005 02:40 PM Nady

Cameron's stats last year offensively were about the same as Nady's, in about the same number of at bats. Nady was a highly tauted prospect a few years ago, but has never gotten the chance to play as a regular. Maybe because he was not as good as his hype. I think the Mets could have gotten more for Cameron, but on the other hand he's damanged goods after last season, so perhaps the market was small. If we're not paying any of Cameron's salary, then it's probably a good deal.

Edgy DC Nov 16 2005 02:42 PM

Nady can swing between first and right, depending on who hits more, Diaz or Jaocbs. If both hit, he can swing as a rule, making a Diaz/Jacobs platoon. Cammie, we hardly knew ye. LaBreka, we never saw ye.

Johnny Dickshot Nov 16 2005 02:43 PM

321/388/450 vs. LHP over the last few years, 2 of 'em at Petco. I can imagine he'd mesh nicely with Jake at 1B and Diaz in RF as need be, be a PHer, etc. Yeah, maybe we coulda got more, considering he's a fulltimer with good 2ndary skills at a rare position and he goes for a part-timer without speed at a replaceable position. Cammy's slid down the "traded-for" food chain: He was swapped for Konerko and Griffey Jr previously.

sharpie Nov 16 2005 03:12 PM

Means Beltran won't go in any Manny trade. Bad news for Dave Roberts.

Rotblatt Nov 16 2005 03:20 PM

Huh. I'd have thought we could do better, but he's young and has some upside. I had resigned myself to the Otsuka deal . . . I think I like this better. He's been flashing more power each of the past three years and he seems to be getting somewhat better at drawing walks, although he's hardly an on-base machine. Seems pretty similar to Victor if you ask me. So I'm guessing that Konerko, Manny & Delgado are now off the table. Does that mean we're abandoning the "big bopper" concept, or are we focusing on (eek) Soriano now?

rpackrat Nov 16 2005 03:21 PM

Those platoon splits look good. If the plan is to platoon him with Jacobs and have him as a RH bat off the bench, this might work out. But I liked Cameron and I think we could have gotten more. OTOH, the Newsday article said SD is picking up all of Cameron's salary, so that frees up several mil for another deal or, as pointe dout by others, maybe Nady will be flipped in another deal.

heep Nov 16 2005 03:32 PM

Alright. Instead of Julio Franco plattoning, we have Nady. Looks like more of a salary dump than anything else. Omar was always a supporter of Victor Diaz. At the moment, it looks like he will get his shot. If they are dumping salaries, Matsui is next.

Johnny Dickshot Nov 16 2005 03:47 PM

Xavier Nady. Sounds like a high-school prog-rock band.

abogdan Nov 16 2005 03:55 PM

Is Nady even arb-eligible yet? Offensively, the two are probably close to a wash, with X on the way slightly up and Cammy trending downwards. Defensively, of course, Cammy is better, but not $7 million better. My only concern is that the Mets have a number of holes to fill and they just filled one of the smaller ones by using one of their better trading chips.

Nymr83 Nov 16 2005 04:09 PM

Edgy DC wrote: Nady can swing between first and right, depending on who hits more, Diaz or Jaocbs. If both hit, he can swing as a rule, making a Diaz/Jacobs platoon. ="Johnny Dickshot"] 321/388/450 vs. LHP over the last few years, 2 of 'em at Petco. I can imagine he'd mesh nicely with Jake at 1B and Diaz in RF as need be, be a PHer, etc. i think its a good move for the reasons stated above and because i don't think Cameron's trade value coming off the injury is as high as we may like to imagine.

Valadius Nov 16 2005 04:22 PM

FUCK!!!! There goes our right-field defense.

Beenso Nov 16 2005 04:41 PM

when i first heard this one, i was a little shocked, but when i thought about it, its really not that bad (as long as the mets arent sending money over also)....nady is a decent player whos got some pop and only really played part-time last year....actually the reason for me not caring much aout this trade is because i really dont care about cameron....but who knows...gotta wait and see

Edgy DC Nov 16 2005 04:53 PM

Betcha PECOTA says Nady is as good a bet as anybody for a breakthrough. Way till you guys see PECOTA. Still hate trades.

Rockin' Doc Nov 16 2005 05:12 PM

Well, at least now when Vic goes to a game at Shea and starts yelling, "Go, Nads!" everyone won't think he's crazy.

MFS62 Nov 16 2005 05:53 PM

Rockin' Doc wrote: Well, at least now when Vic goes to a game at Shea and starts yelling, "Go, Nads!" everyone won't think he's crazy. nice, Later

Benjamin Grimm Nov 16 2005 08:30 PM

Xavier Nady's first appearence in a Mets box score was Jesse Orosco's last.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 16 2005 08:35 PM

Here's Marty Noble's (and Lyle Spencer's) take: Mets, Padres near Cameron-Nady deal 11/16/2005 6:04 PM ET By Marty Noble and Lyle Spencer / MLB.com NEW YORK -- If tests show Mike Cameron has no lingering vision problems resulting from that sickening outfield collision he had with Carlos Beltran in August, he will playing center field in PETCO Park in San Diego next season, the site of the collision that caused him to miss the final six weeks of the Mets season. The Mets and Padres have agreed to an exchange of players that will move Cameron from right field in Shea Stadium to center field, his preferred position, in San Diego and move versatile right-handed hitter Xavier Nady to the Mets to play right field and/or first base. A source familiar with the Mets' thinking confirmed the trade Tuesday and said it was conditional, pending the eye exam for Cameron. Cameron had suffered blurry vision at times following the collision and the surgery he underwent to reconstruct his face. He had suffered broken cheeks and a broken nose when he and Beltran collided in right center field pursuing a line drive Aug. 11. The multiple fractures Cameron suffered have healed completely, but he still is suffering headaches that resulted from the collision. Cameron, who will be 33 on Jan. 8, batted .273 with 12 homers and 39 RBIs in 308 at-bats in '05, after missing the opening month recovering from wrist surgery. He's a .249 career hitter with 173 homers and 625 RBIs, with a .340 on-base percentage and .442 slugging percentage. His best season was 2001, when he batted .267 with 25 homers and 110 RBIs for the Mariners. Critical to the Padres' plans, Cameron has few peers in center field, having won Gold Gloves in 2001 and 2003 with the Mariners. He is the whole package defensively, and the club feels an improved defensive outfield, anchored by Cameron, could save the pitching staff about a half-run a game. Dave Roberts, who played center last season, is expected to be shifted to left field, with Ryan Klesko moving to first base. In Nady, the Mets would add a versatile performer capable of handling first base and all three outfield positions. Nady, who turned 27 on Monday, batted .261 with 13 homers and 43 RBIs in 124 games in '05, with a .439 slugging average and .321 on-base percentage. In 269 career games, Nady has batted .263 with 25 homers and 91 RBIs in 775 at-bats. He never found a regular job with the Padres, reduced to part-time duty by manager Bruce Bochy by his inability to consistently hit right-handed pitching. Nady batted .223 against right-handers in '05, but 10 of his 13 homers came against righties. He batted .323 against lefties. His '05 highlights featured homers in four consecutive games from June 24-27, and a game-winning grand slam in Atlanta on Aug. 20.

Valadius Nov 16 2005 08:44 PM

Yeah... we shouldn't be jumping the gun on this.

Johnny Dickshot Nov 16 2005 09:16 PM

Prospectus on on Nady: Breakout 18%; Improve 37%; Collapse 39%, but take into account these projections also consider projected PT as they wrote: ]Having played some third base at Cal, the Padres had Nady man the hot corner this offseason at instructional league, hoping to find ways to get more use out of him. In a park that favors right handed pull hitters, Nady could be a much cheaper replacement for Klesko in left, minus some OBP, plus ample defense and power. But no-trade clauses handed Klesko and Nevin keep tripping up the Padres, and will continue to do so through 06. With the Padres in desperate need of better outfield speed and defense and Nady and other hitters blocked the situation's a bit painful. They pegged him for equivalent average of 256 and Cameron for 257. VORP 13.8 vs. Cammy's 27. Actual results: Nady 269 EQA, 13.6 VORP Cammy 284 EQA; 22.5 VORP

metirish Nov 16 2005 09:19 PM

I don't like this deal, I've been thinking about it and IMO Nady is nothing more than a few steps above being a bench player...

Nymr83 Nov 16 2005 09:38 PM

metirish wrote: I don't like this deal, I've been thinking about it and IMO Nady is nothing more than a few steps above being a bench player... i'd argue then when you take cammy's CF defense out of the equation he isn't really much better, if better at all. i'd love to play cameron in CF but the mets obviously arent going that way so they might as well trade him for a guy who is an equal hitter, can play 1b/rf (which they need), and is alot cheaper and will hopefully let them spend more on something else.

smg58 Nov 16 2005 09:40 PM

This deal was made first and foremost to free salary. It's value depends not so much on Nady, but on how the Mets spend the extra money. I hope this puts the Mets in the hunt for Brian Giles. Since Nady and Diaz are basically equivalent players (righty OF/1B with some upside), I would be surprised if both report to Port St. Lucie in February. If a team is offering the Mets something Minaya wants for a package that includes Diaz, the Mets would need a righty reserve bat for first base and/or the outfield. With Nady (assuming the reports are accurate), that role is filled pretty well.

Frayed Knot Nov 16 2005 09:41 PM

If you were Chris Carpenter and I were Xavier Nady would you pitch to me anyway or would you walk me baby? Sorry, I heard that song earlier tonight ... it was in my head. ]Is Nady even arb-eligible yet? I don't think so but I'm not positive. He had mostly full seasons in '03 & '05 (so call that 2 complete) but only 1 AB in '02 (Sept call-up) & just 77 ABs in '04. So as long as he spent the rest of '04 de-moted to the minors rather than "de-elled" from the majors than he gets little service credit and would just be a '2-year +' guy and not arb eligible until next year. Nady's seen time at all 3 OF positions so far, plus 1st & 3rd (his college position) so it sounds like we can get him enough playing time. At 1st platooning w/Jacobs, in RF with Diaz, as a righty to give Cliff a day off, plus prolly the only legit backup CF. Looking through some old 'Baseball Prospectus' handbooks, I see they loved him in '03 but were ready to re-evaluate in '04. Hadn't progressed enough to fill his promise once beyond the lower minors they thought ... not an uncommon thing with prospects. The bit I've heard from WFAN land is just what I suspected. Met fans are great at saying 'trade 'em all for prospects' or 'play the kids' ... until it actually happens when they say; 'not THAT prospect!' Most callers seem to think Cammy was going to net us Manny or Soriano -- and the rest are already inventing trades packaging Nady for someone else. Mad Dog was adamant that we should have gotten Osutka, mainly because he's under the impression that; a) our bullpen is a mess (it isn't) and b) that Osutka would be a major upgrade (selective reasoning)

metirish Nov 16 2005 09:51 PM

All good points guys ,I'm just not that hot for Nady, I'll be surprised if he's a Mets player for very long,Omar will surely look to send him with others to either Tampa for Baez/Huff or do that and send all to Boston... smg58, I just read that Torre has been calling Giles to no avail,apparently they want him for CF....so says the times..

Edgy DC Nov 16 2005 09:53 PM

I don't think this is primarily about dumping salary. I suspect the Mets like Nady.

Nymr83 Nov 16 2005 10:27 PM

i like Nady too...as compared to a Cameron not playing CF. this isn't a blockbuster but not every trade has to be, it is a positive move for the team in several small ways though.

Johnny Dickshot Nov 17 2005 06:05 AM

Nady may not be as fungible as some suspect, per the SD papers: ]Nady's contract also concerned the Padres. Per a deal struck by agent Scott Boras after the Padres drafted him out of Cal in 2000, Nady received $1.138 million this year, far more than most players who have yet to qualify for arbitration. Drawing extra income for every 30 days he spent on the 25-man roster, Nady added $650,000 to his $488,000 salary.

MFS62 Nov 17 2005 06:19 AM

Its still a net salary gain of almost $6 mil. And two guys at the Daily News think the money saved will be reinvested by Omar. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/366431p-311949c.html http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/366430p-311948c.html Later

86-Dreamer Nov 17 2005 06:44 AM

I like this trade if it makes them more comfortable with giving Jacobs the 1B job. Nady is decent major league bat if Jacobs proves to be a total failure, and a good part time right handed bat if Jacobs does well. My guess is that the extra salary space from this deal will help Omar come up with a trade of Diaz and pitching for a high salaried veteran OF not named Manny Ramirez. Another guess is that it won't be long before Sammy Sosa's name pops up in Met rumors. I am not advocating, just guessing that it will come up now that RF is oficially up for grabs.

Elster88 Nov 17 2005 06:51 AM

86-Dreamer wrote: Another guess is that it won't be long before Sammy Sosa's name pops up in Met rumors. I am not advocating, just guessing that it will come up now that RF is oficially up for grabs. I have been happy with Omar to date. I'm guessing he will not pursue Sosa. Although.....would it be to terrible to have him on the bench if he's very, very cheap? He could play the role Mike doesn't seem to want to embrace, the menacing figure in the on-deck circle with a (corked) bat in hand. He could even hold a needle to pretend he's still on the juice.

Elster88 Nov 17 2005 07:09 AM

Nymr83 wrote: i'd argue then when you take cammy's CF defense out of the equation he isn't really much better, if better at all. i'd love to play cameron in CF but the mets obviously arent going that way so they might as well trade him for a guy who is an equal hitter, can play 1b/rf (which they need), and is alot cheaper and will hopefully let them spend more on something else. Defense in right doesn't mean anything? Cammy played an incredible right field last year. If they have equal bats, keep the guy who is great in right field and find someone else to play first. I think this trade is pretty obviously designed as the beginning to operation go after Manny. If it's not, then Irish is right. Unless they 100% know he will develop into something more, Nady is one step up from a bench player. A great defensive outfielder traded for a bench player. Not good.

Frayed Knot Nov 17 2005 07:53 AM

]Nady is one step up from a bench player. Or maybe he's a top-notch college & minor league player who's at the right age (27 as of the other day) to fufill his promise if given regular ABs. Funny how many fans are in love with the idea of handing Jacobs and/or Hernandez/Keppinger starting jobs but leery about doing the same for the much more highly touted Nady. Yeah, Jacobs is 2 years younger, got a great first 100 ABs under his belt, and at least holds a promise of catching now and then -- but I'm not sure that all makes him any less likely to fall on his face than the X-man.

silverdsl Nov 17 2005 07:57 AM

So how bad are Cameron's headaches and blurred vision? Is it something that could cause him not to pass the physical? I haven't kept up on how his recovery has gone and for his sake I hope those are minor issues becuase regardless of whether he goes to the Padres or stays with the Mets I'd hate for his career to be derailed by that scary collision.

Rotblatt Nov 17 2005 08:20 AM

Weird. I expected Nady to have some serious Home/Away splits since PETCO is such a pitchers park, but he doesn't at all. In fact, he's been better at PETCO than away from it--.744 OPS to .722 OPS. FWIW, he's had 21 plate appearances at Shea, with 8 hits, including a HR, a walk & 3 strike outs--.400 AVG/.429 OBP/.550 SLG/.979 OPS. He doesn't work the count much at all--he's averaged 3.56 P/PA throughout his career--and he's a groundball hitter (1.58 for his career--the MLB average last year was 1.30). However, he doesn't ground into many double plays--only 5 in 326 AB last year. Despite his ground ball tendencies, he's got good power. Over the past two years, he's averaged 25 PA/HR, so if we trotted him up there 600 times, we'd get 24 dingers. I'm guessing he only tries to hit home runs when he sees a mistake. I like that. He struck out in around 20.5% of his at bats last year, which was a little high for him. As I mentioned before, he doesn't walk a lot, but he's improved since 2003. His EQA has risen from .257 in 2003 to .270 in 2005. Defensively, ESPN targets him as a first baseman. He earned 1.2 fielding win shares last year. BP's rated him as an average 1B, a marginally below average LF (-1 RAA2 in 05 in 26 games), a bad CF (-6 RAA2 in 30 games) & a below-average RF (-2 RAA2 in 13 games--he had -5 in 2003 over 105 games).

smg58 Nov 17 2005 09:31 AM

When the thread about lefty/righty splits at ballparks came out (this was in July I think), I remember checking the site and seeing that Petco was bad in general but far more so for lefties. So Nady's home/road splits might not necessarily be that flukish. Bringing in a righty bat with 30 HR potential even in unfriendly parks makes sense for the Padres, as counting on Giles and Klesko for power in that park just wasn't working. Klesko is now free to play his best defensive position (first base), but the Padres still have glaring holes in the corners of their outfield.

Edgy DC Nov 17 2005 10:39 AM

If Cammy still has it, that centerfield at WhateverHappenedtoJackMurphy Stadium will be a great showcase for him. This Padre team is really in a flux, and has a lot of work to do this offseason.

duan Nov 17 2005 11:20 AM

i'm just disappointed that we didn't think about trying to tap texas us for Kevin Mench rather then San Diego for Nady. I'm 'not sure' about it as a move, I loved having Mike Cameron, but it is true that he was sub-optimally used at RF. I think Nady's a good bet to have an EQA comparable to Cameron's in 2006 - you probably lose a little defense - though BP's report on Cameron's defense in RF was a little below average.

smg58 Nov 17 2005 01:28 PM

Could any of you with ESPN.com Insider please provide the gist of Buster Olney's article concerning the Cameron deal?

Valadius Nov 17 2005 01:35 PM

Yeah, someone help us out!

metirish Nov 17 2005 01:59 PM

Here you go guys.... ] Cameron for Nady ... really?posted: Thursday, November 17, 2005 | Feedback When the offseason dust settles and pitchers and catchers report to spring training in mid-February, a common refrain will be that the Mets had the best offseason of any team in the majors. They are in a commanding position to sign Billy Wagner to be their closer, they inevitably will land whoever they think is the best catcher on the market, and they will add a big-time bat this winter, whether it's Manny Ramirez or perhaps Carlos Delgado or somebody else. It's as if Omar Minaya has $10,000 to spend on a couple of new suits: No matter what he does, he's almost certain to look good with the new duds. All that said, I don't get the Mike Cameron for Xavier Nady trade. And some of Minaya's peers around baseball don't get it, either. It's a terrible deal. I wish I could tell you what Minaya was thinking, precisely, but he has begun to develop a Dan Duquette-like habit of failing to return phone calls. Without Minaya filling in the blanks for himself, I've been sitting here trying to understand how it is that in a market starved for good center fielders -- and Cameron is a great center fielder -- he settled for a player who has demonstrated all the signs of being a journeyman. Some possible rationales: • Maybe another team dangling a heavy hitter -- the Red Sox, perhaps -- told Minaya they wanted Nady, specifically. • Maybe the Mets ownership insisted that Minaya make sure he got Cameron's contract off the books before offers were made to Wagner, Ramon Hernandez, etc. • Maybe Minaya really sees something in Nady that others don't see, as a possible platoon partner with Mike Jacobs at first base, or as a corner outfielder. But the problem is that no matter what the reason was for making this deal right now, the Mets could have and should have done better, because Cameron simply has more value in the current market than Nady. "I heard they were talking about that, but I couldn't believe it was true," an executive with another team said. "Now I wish I had called and offered to make a deal for him and then moved him to another team, because you could've gotten a lot more for him." The executive pointed out that Cameron had "a perfect storm" of value: • He is a solid veteran player with a unique ability (center field defense), and a time when there is a dearth of quality center fielders in the big leagues. Teams like the Padres, Yankees, Rangers, Cubs and Dodgers went into the winter knowing they probably would have to land a center fielder. • The free-agent market stinks, and teams are looking to deal for help, rather than overpay a free agent. • Cameron has cost certainty, with just one year remaining on his current deal, at $6.5 million. And unless he gets hurt, you can rest assured that he will have value in trade next June or July. Nady hit well against left-handers last season, batting .323. But let's face it, the Padres are dying for offense, they're about to lose Brian Giles, and they are willing to deal a guy they drafted and developed; that should tell you something. And while Nady is five years younger than Cameron, and is now 27 years old, we recall past words of Bobby Valentine: A major leaguer who is hitting well at 21 or 22 years old, that's a good young player, someone who can be expected to develop into something much more than he is. Nady, at 27, is not a young player anymore. He's had playing time in four different big-league seasons and has yet to establish himself as an everyday player. In the year that Cameron turned 27, he already had three seasons of 141 or more games. Nady has never played in more than 124 games in any season, and 269 games in all, and he's got a lifetime average of .263, and an on-base percentage of .320. When you heard the flip side of the deal yesterday -- Mike Cameron for ... -- you kept waiting for more names to be added. The Mets will be fine, with more big deals to come. But this was a missed opportunity. And with the Padres probably facing a rough season ahead, they will be poised to deal Cameron by mid-summer. Let's open the speculation right now: There is at least a 50-50 chance Cameron will finish the 2006 season as the center fielder in The Bronx. Adam Rubin adds some detail to the Mets' machinations. John Harper also weighs the merits of the deal. • Speaking of outfielders with market value, there is mounting speculation the Mariners might trade Ichiro; Bob Finnigan addresses the speculation. • Billy Wagner tells the Philadelphia Inquirer that he's very optimistic about his negotiations with the Phillies. Sounds like the Phillies are holding off firing their last bullet in the Billy Wagner negotiations, which is smart. If they had thrown out their best offer last night, then Wagner could have taken that to the Mets, who would have inevitably countered with a bigger deal. This way, the Mets will have to bid first, and the Phillies are still in a position to respond. No matter what happens, however, the final offers figure to put Wagner in a tough spot: He'll probably have to leave about $10 million on the table if he's going to walk away from the Phillies, and that won't be easy to do. • The Mets are setting up a fallback position in case Wagner doesn't sign with them, talking to B.J. Ryan. • Joe Torre has reached out to free-agent outfielder Brian Giles. • The is Nationals-D.C. thing currently a quagmire. The Nationals met with A.J. Burnett. • Jim Beattie might be emerging as the front-runner in Boston. • Joe Maddon is working on rounding out his coaching staff. • Mark Krieger writes that in the steroid wars, the cheaters are ahead and gaining ground. If you get caught now, Nick Canepa writes, you are an idiot. • The Rockies are looking at Jose Mesa. • Ned Colletti charmed the room in his first day on the job, writes Bill Plaschke. T.J. Simers is similarly wooed. Jim Fregosi says he's willing and able to be the next Dodgers manager. Colletti says there is work to do before the Dodgers are leading contenders. Kim Ng says she'll learn from the experience, after being passed over. • The Yankees are in a wait-and-see mode on Bernie Williams. • Geoff Blum rejoins the Padres.

Zvon Nov 17 2005 06:43 PM

IIl miss Cammy. Having missed the last 6 weeks of the season and still suffering effects of the collision, his value has been played at a sub par level. I think this deal has to be about salary flexibility. If we end up with Nady when the dust settles, he'll fill a need. And the dust wont settle until Omars done dealin.

KC Nov 17 2005 07:28 PM

>>>I wish I could tell you what Minaya was thinking, precisely, but he has begun to develop a Dan Duquette-like habit of failing to return phone calls.<<< I generally enjoy Buster's stuff, but lines like this make me laugh. Everyone is not entitled to know exactly what the GM of a team is thinking - and it doesn't need to be broadcasted to the media a day after a deal goes down just so they have something to write the next day or day after. The sports world moves too fast sometimes for my taste ... freakin' WFAN and that dang internet thingy.

Nymr83 Nov 18 2005 02:51 AM

i agree, telling everyone what you are thinking won't help you get what you want. its like those guys selling umbrellas on the street in times square, they cost $5 but the moment its raining they cost $15....if omar tells the world who/what he's after it may raise the asking price. we've gotta be patient and not criticize too much until all the moves are in. if you're not happy on april 1st then thats hte time to say "omar you screwed up this offseason"

Edgy DC Nov 18 2005 06:36 AM

I've long wearied of the logic of "the other team was willing to deal their guy, that must tell you something." Sticking with that logic, no deals would get done. As Ralph Kiner likes to hammer home, teams have different assessments of talent, that's why trades happen.

Elster88 Nov 18 2005 08:23 AM

If we turn around and use Nady to get Delgado, suddenly I like the Cameron for Nady trade a lot more.

Valadius Nov 18 2005 06:09 PM

The trade has been completed... [url]http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AjxcjueG98DsOXTUInBwl.c5nYcB?slug=ap-mets-padrestrade&prov=ap&type=lgns[/url]

Johnny Dickshot Nov 18 2005 06:14 PM

"Xavier has the versatility to play first base, third base or the outfield," said Mets General Manager Omar Minaya. "He's a young guy who we feel will get better and better with more playing time." now maybe he can return buster olney's phone calls.

Valadius Nov 18 2005 06:18 PM

Quote from Omar: "Nady gives us a lot of flexibility as we put our team together for 2006," Minaya said. "He has not been given the opportunity to play every day. We feel he is capable of being an everyday player." The first part sounds like they're flipping him somewhere else. The second part is ambiguous.

mlbaseballtalk Nov 18 2005 07:39 PM

="Valadius"]Quote from Omar: "Nady gives us a lot of flexibility as we put our team together for 2006," Minaya said. "He has not been given the opportunity to play every day. We feel he is capable of being an everyday player." The first part sounds like they're flipping him somewhere else. The second part is ambiguous. Ah the "covering all bases" quote" Steve

Johnny Dickshot Nov 19 2005 06:55 AM

Minaya justifies Cameron trade BY ADAM RUBIN DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER Omar Minaya rejected the suggestion that the Mets could have gotten more for Mike Cameron, saying injuries to the displaced center fielder and a 10-team no-trade clause had severely diminished the market for him. "You're dealing from a position of weakness because of the injury. There's no doubt about that," the GM said last night, after Cameron passed a physical and the Mets completed their acquisition of first baseman/outfielder Xavier Nady from the Padres. "The truth of the matter is there are a lot of people looking for center fielders. But let me tell you, we shopped around." Minaya acknowledged that during a meeting at the end of the season, Cameron had expressed a strong desire to play center field elsewhere because he was uncomfortable in right field, particularly in light of his horrific Aug. 11 collision in San Diego with Carlos Beltran. Cameron, however, said it would be a "farce" to go so far as to suggest he demanded a trade. "I don't do stuff like that," he said. Minaya said he chose to move quickly in trading Cameron to San Diego because other teams wanted to take a wait-and-see approach to ensure he was healthy. By the time those clubs were convinced of Cameron's health, perhaps during spring training, they would not have the financial flexibility to take on the contract without the Mets absorbing some of the $6.5 million guaranteed to Cameron. Cameron was limited to 308 at-bats last season because of wrist tendinitis that sidelined him into May, then the season-ending collision. Padres GM Kevin Towers suggested it was important for him to move aggressively in obtaining Cameron. Towers said other teams, after discovering the exorbitant salary demands of the few center fielders on the free agent market, eventually would have come to the Mets, creating fiercer competition for Cameron. "We felt it would be wise on our behalf to move swiftly and quickly before more clubs came into the fold and started pounding on Omar's door," Towers said. Minaya said the savings - more than $5 million - in a deal in which no money changed hands was a secondary factor. The GM intimated the Mets would hold onto Nady rather than spin him off in another trade, though whether Nady mostly played first base or right field would be answered later depending on other moves and the performances of Mike Jacobs and Victor Diaz. Minaya indicated the 27-year-old Nady would be part of the Mets' core with David Wright, Jose Reyes and Beltran for years to come and should be a power threat with a full season of at-bats. Nady was vacationing in Mexico and unavailable, Mets spokesman Jay Horwitz said.

Edgy DC Nov 19 2005 06:40 PM

I kind of hate when they feel they have to stoop to answer baseless criticism. I'd like to read something like, "Confronted with suggestions that he failed to shop around outfielder Mike Cameron before dealing him to San Diego, Mets General Manager Omar Minaya responded by flinging dung and pounding his chest until the interview room was cleared."

Edgy DC Nov 21 2005 07:39 AM

Check out how the Canada Press is pitching the story.

metirish Nov 21 2005 07:49 AM

They are correct in calling Nady a utility player, between Cameron's believe in the good Lord and Kevin Towers believe in fate this should be a great season for the Padres...

Edgy DC Nov 21 2005 07:52 AM

Everybody who plays more than one positon is a utility player. The spin is the implication that that is all he is and all he ever will be. Devil Rays Flip Zambrano for Minor Leaguer is technically correct but doesn't really sum up the story.

metirish Nov 21 2005 07:58 AM

Good point and very true, Nady figures to get a chance next season to be a regular ,where is the question.

seawolf17 Nov 21 2005 08:01 AM

]"He felt much more comfortable in centre field than in right field," Minaya said. "I had to take that into account." It's funny to see Omar speaking Canadian.

Vic Sage Nov 21 2005 01:38 PM

This deal blows monkey chunks. Cameron -- an all-star CFer with 2 GGs in his trophy case, with career .880 OPS [340.ob + .440slg],and an OPS+ = 106, with an average line = .250/90r/80rbi/25hr/30sb... ... is traded straight up for... Nady -- a part-time corner OFer/1bman, no speed, not a defensive whizz at a key position, with 50 points less of OPS (and an OPS+ of 98), who hasn't been able to establish himself on an offense-starved team. He's a AAAA-player on the wrong side of a big platoon differential. Yes, Nady is 27. And next year, he has the potential to be 28. If Cameron's healthy, however, he's as likely to reproduce his career average numbers at age 33 as he was at age 31. 33 ain't old in outfielder years. This deal only happens because Omar is under orders to dump salary. They wanted to move Cameron without having to eat any salary, so this was "the best they could do". I have no doubt that this was the best they could do, under the circumstances... but what was the rush? With a number of teams desperate for a decent CFer, with nothing available on the FA market, Mets were in position to wait it out and sell him off to the highest bidder. So what if they had to risk keeping his contract? This ain't Oakland. They've lopped of Piazza's deal and some others, and there is no reason on Earth that a NYC franchise couldn't afford a $6.5m RFer in ADDITION to a closer, a catcher and a backup 1bman. I don'[t care WHAT else they do with the saved money. With their revenues, and a new sports network on the way, the Mets should be able to afford to keep him AND spend the money on other players, too. If Nady was all they could get for Cameron at this point, because of Cameron's uncertain health status, then they should've waited until his health status was more certain, or until teams were more willing to bear the risk out of their own sense of urgency. Monkey chunks, i tell ya... big, gooey, yellow-ish monkey chunks.

Elster88 Nov 21 2005 01:40 PM

]And next year, he has the potential to be 28. Potential? I guess he might die and not realize that potential.

KC Nov 21 2005 01:44 PM

I'd say Vic's personal assistant has got his biting edge down pat already.

Edgy DC Nov 21 2005 01:45 PM

Norrin just stamped this thread for the prediction archives.

Edgy DC Nov 21 2005 02:09 PM

]Cameron -- an all-star CFer... Let's be fair. He was an All-Star once, in 2001. Some of his All-Star teammates were Christian Guzman, Paul Quantrill, and Joe Mays. ]...with 2 GGs in his trophy case... He was and probably is a wonderful centerfielder, but that, too, was two years ago and centefielders have an advantage in Gold Glove acquisition and he's since suffered a calamitous injury that has cast his defensive future under something aof a cloud. Gold Gloves are a mess. ]...with career .880 OPS [340.ob + .440slg],and an OPS+ = 106... All true. ], with an average line = .250/90r/80rbi/25hr/30sb... Well, 22 homers per 162 games anyhow. He's unlikely to play 162 games any time soon though. ]... is traded straight up for... Nady -- a part-time corner OFer/1bman..., Well, he never really caught his manager's fancy, but he outperformed both Phil Nevin and Sean Burroughs last year. The world is full of Howard Johnsons just waiting for managers to give them jobs. ]no speed, not a defensive whizz at a key position Excellent defense has rarely been such a concern of yours. But he's versatile, which can be just as good. ]...with 50 points less of OPS (and an OPS+ of 98).., Which is exactly what Cameron's was at his age. ]...who hasn't been able to establish himself on an offense-starved team. That's just a restatement of the part-time label. ]He's a AAAA-player on the wrong side of a big platoon differential. Nah. The platoon difference is a concern. But it can be an advantage too. But look what the Mets had among extra outfielders last year. ]Yes, Nady is 27. And next year, he has the potential to be 28. Again.same productivity through 27 as Cameron. ]If Cameron's healthy, however, he's as likely to reproduce his career average numbers at age 33 as he was at age 31. Big if. Tremendous. And that factored into the deal. ]33 ain't old in outfielder years. Sometimes it is. And sometimes it's old in outfielder-with-a-reconstructed-head years. ]This deal only happens because Omar is under orders to dump salary. They wanted to move Cameron without having to eat any salary, so this was "the best they could do". I have no doubt that this was the best they could do, under the circumstances... but what was the rush? That's pretty speculative, isn't it? ]With a number of teams desperate for a decent CFer, with nothing available on the FA market, Mets were in position to wait it out and sell him off to the highest bidder. Minaya answered that one. Believe it or don't, I guess. I don't like the deal either. I just wanted to keep Cammy. I like having a versatile player in return, though, and at an age when many hitters blossom.

Elster88 Nov 21 2005 02:37 PM

="Edgy DC"] ]...with 2 GGs in his trophy case... He was and probably is a wonderful centerfielder, but that, too, was two years ago and centefielders have an advantage in Gold Glove acquisition and he's since suffered a calamitous injury that has cast his defensive future under something aof a cloud. Gold Gloves are a mess. Three calamitous injuries since August 2004, by my count. That said, he played magnificently in right field up to breaking his face, so the first two at least didn't seem to impair his fielding.