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America, I Decline to Salute You! Mets Pursue Delgado

Rotblatt Nov 18 2005 09:45 AM

The South Florida Sun Sentinel says that we're "racheting up" our pursuit of Delgado, speculating that we could send Nady along with Petit to the Fish for Delgado. It also says that the Marlins are in seriously bad financial straights, so Nady & Petit sounds like a little too much, if you ask me. http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/sfl-submarl18nov18,0,6304197.story?coll=sfla-sports-headlines

duan Nov 18 2005 09:51 AM

If we're prepared to take him off their hands and pay the salary I think there's a strong argument for not giving up much. Delgado's deal was such that LAST YEAR was a complete bargain @ $4 million and from then on it's pretty heinous. They've already got value out of the deal (a seriously top player at a seriously cheap price) so to be getting prospects out of it as well seems pretty excessive. I wouldn't cry if we gave up a Diaz/Nady (not that I don't think they're decent players) but if we start giving up ML Starter (which both of them probably are) and very good prospect (like Petit) then we might be giving up too much.

Yancy Street Gang Nov 18 2005 09:52 AM

I'd prefer Nady and Petit for Delgado over Milledge plus whoever for Manny.

sharpie Nov 18 2005 10:02 AM

I'd go for Nady/Petit for Delgado in a heartbeat. Then get Mike Jacobs to dust off his catchers mitt.

MFS62 Nov 18 2005 10:05 AM

The title to the thread is misleading. First of all, Delgado is American, he is from Puerto Rico. He is not anti-American. He has since explained that he refused to stand for a song (which is not our National Anthem, by the way) because he did not feel the US should have invaded Iraq. And, as an American, it was his right to feel that way. According to recent polls, over 50% of Americans now feel that way,too. We now return this thread back to baseball - The most misunderstood opinions I've seen on other boards since he signed with the Fish was that he "dissed" New York. I am of the opinion that it was the other way around. If Omar had approached him right after he signed Pedro, and before he went after Beltran and with the same fervor, Delgado would have signed with the Mets. But it appeared that Delgado was an after-thought, and that's why the negotiations ran into trouble. From what have I heard from my friends in Toronto, Delgado is a very proud man, and being an afterthought hurt his pride. Later

metirish Nov 18 2005 10:13 AM

Well I don't think the title of the thread is anything more than Rotblatt having a bit of fun,as for who dissed who I don't know, Delgado felt that Omar was using his spanish heritage to curry favour with him...it was all rather stupid and Delgado went to Florida because he thought they were the best team...

Elster88 Nov 18 2005 10:19 AM

sharpie wrote: I'd go for Nady/Petit for Delgado in a heartbeat. So effectively we're trading Cameron and Petit for Delgado. I like.

Elster88 Nov 18 2005 10:22 AM

Dammit I hate it when I think this way but: Reyes, SS Beltran, CF Wright, 3B Manny, LF Delgado, 1B Jacobs, C Diaz, RF Matsui, 2B Martinez, P or Reyes, SS Beltran, CF Wright, 3B Delgado, 1B Floyd, LF Jacobs, C Diaz, RF Matsui, 2B Martinez, P looks tasty.

metirish Nov 18 2005 10:24 AM

Sure does look tasty, you have Floyd going to Boston for Manny in the first team?

Edgy DC Nov 18 2005 10:25 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 18 2005 10:26 AM

This is kind of a misplaced rant. ]First of all, Delgado is American, he is from Puerto Rico. The title didn't say he wasn't. ]He is not anti-American. Maybe he's not, but plenty of Puerto Ricans are anti-American. Plenty of mainlanders are also. ]He has since explained that he refused to stand for a song (which is not our National Anthem, by the way) because he did not feel the US should have invaded Iraq. It was initially a protest over US munitions testing in Puerto Rico. I think we all know which song is our National Anthem. ]And, as an American, it was his right to feel that way. Nobody said he didn't. Why does that alway come up? ]According to recent polls, over 50% of Americans now feel that way,too. What do you mean "too"? Delgado, as you point out, is an American himself.

Elster88 Nov 18 2005 10:26 AM

]Sure does look tasty, you have Floyd going to Boston for Manny in the first team? Just random guesswork. I hate posting imaginary lineups because the offseason never plays out exactly the way you hope. I may as well just stick Pujols and Tejada in there if I'm going to dream.

Yancy Street Gang Nov 18 2005 10:28 AM

This looks tasty:

Elster88 Nov 18 2005 10:30 AM

The food or the person holding it?

metirish Nov 18 2005 10:32 AM

Yeah I hear you Elster, just so you know Tejada is playing 2nd, Reyes will not be moved again...back to Delgado,I had a good laugh when I read that his contract has a clause that states that if he's traded to NY an extra $1 million kicks in to cover NY State taxes, now this could be standard procedure for a smart agent but after all the talk back and forth when he signed with Florida I thought it was funny.

Edgy DC Nov 18 2005 10:34 AM

The larger implied point that Delgado shouldn't be persecuted for his positions is fair enough, but I don't think that's what Rotty was doing.

MFS62 Nov 18 2005 10:35 AM

Yes, it was misplaced. And, as you pointed out, poorly written, too. Later

Rotblatt Nov 18 2005 10:56 AM

="MFS62"]The title to the thread is misleading. First of all, Delgado is American, he is from Puerto Rico. He is not anti-American. He has since explained that he refused to stand for a song (which is not our National Anthem, by the way) because he did not feel the US should have invaded Iraq. And, as an American, it was his right to feel that way. According to recent polls, over 50% of Americans now feel that way,too. Like Irish said, I was just having a bit of fun with the title, MFS62. Didn't mean to offend! On the surface, I agree that Nady/Petit for Delgado is okay, but I think we could do a lot better. Fish are over a barrell, with several large contracts they're trying to move--Lowell ($18M), LoDuca ($12.5M) & Delgado ($48M), along with arbitration eligible guys like Pierre (~$7M?) & Mota (~$4M?). Rockies are interested in LoDuca & Mota; maybe we could trade Nady & Zambrano for LoDuca, Mota & Delgado, then flip a partially paid for LoDuca & Mota to the Rockies for Bigbie (young lefty 4th OF), who goes to the Fish. Mets: Delgado ($48M) Rockies: LoDuca ($12.5M minus, say, $3.5M from us), Mota Fish: Nady, Zambrano, Bigbie Rockies get relief help & a C on the cheap. Fish save around $65M and fill holes in RF & SP. Cabrera moves to 3B, Willingham steps in as the catcher, Bigbie goes to right & Nady takes 1B. We get our big bopper.

Edgy DC Nov 18 2005 11:00 AM

Personally, I have little concern over whether Delgado sits or stands.

MFS62 Nov 18 2005 11:07 AM

Edgy DC wrote: Personally, I have little concern over whether Delgado sits or stands. Exactly. That's the point I was trying to make. It was overblown when it first came up. But it doesn't mean he wouldn't be a much needed asset to the Mets lineup. He could turn the jeers into cheers with one swing of the bat. From that point, all that sit/stand nonsense would be forgotten. Later

Centerfield Nov 18 2005 11:07 AM

Nady and Petit? If that's really what they want I can't ship them out fast enough. Since Ralph's not here, the TiTTS stand erect and firm behind this deal. See you X, see you Y...thanks for all the fish.

sharpie Nov 18 2005 11:12 AM

Where's Ralph been anyway?

Edgy DC Nov 18 2005 11:15 AM

I think Norrin is phasing us out. He's an executive director after all. Goofing off isn't as much fun when you're goofing off on yourself. And I think I have less use for peeps who allow their jeers to be turned to cheers with one swing of the bat. Who's really jeering anyhow?

smg58 Nov 18 2005 11:15 AM

I'd much rather deal Bannister than Petit, and I'd be willing to replace Nady with Diaz and throw in either Trachsel or Zambrano to keep Petit. We have so much freed up money, along with an excess of starting pitching, that we can make beneficial moves without parting with our best prospects. Taking on Delgado at more money per year than we were willing to give him last year, and then throwing in Petit, strikes me as being counterintuitive. If we can't haggle the Marlins down, go elsewhere. Bigbie might actually be useful to us, if he can play center. We can't continue with Gerald Williams as our #2 CF, can we?

Centerfield Nov 18 2005 11:17 AM

Ralph is, like, important now.

MFS62 Nov 18 2005 11:22 AM

Edgy DC wrote: And I think I have less use for peeps who allow their jeers to be turned to cheers with one swing of the bat. Who's really jeering anyhow? I dunno, I just felt that post needed a cliche. It was the fans who jeered him after the Iraq invasion because they misunderstood the reason he didn't stand. There were lost of them in New York- jeering each tim ehe came to bat. How was he received in Washington? Later

sharpie Nov 18 2005 11:30 AM

I was in Italy when the first part of the Ralph news happened. Haven't done enough trolling in the subforums to see the second announcement. Still no excuse for not showing up here.

Edgy DC Nov 18 2005 11:31 AM

I don't think anybody cares. Who really takes attendance on these things?

Nymr83 Nov 18 2005 01:10 PM

Edgy DC wrote: Personally, I have little concern over whether Delgado sits or stands. as long as he stands at the plate 600 or so times.

KC Nov 18 2005 01:14 PM

I think I read in Variety that Ralph has someone post for him these days.

abogdan Nov 18 2005 01:37 PM

Why exactly would the Mets want to help their division rivals get rid of a contract they can't afford and that will seriously hinder their ability to improve their roster?

Elster88 Nov 18 2005 01:38 PM

My guess is: Because we could use a left handed guy with power...and a first baseman.

Frayed Knot Nov 18 2005 02:25 PM

Main problem with Delgado, of course, is that his contract was so backloaded. 4 yrs at $52mil was one thing but now that it's 3 @ $48 it gets even more expensive. Think of it this way: - if he were a FA this year would he get $16mil/yr just a year after getting essentially $13 per? - and if NO, why would you give up lots of young/cheap/promising players PLUS that kind of money to get him?

Valadius Nov 18 2005 07:18 PM

I do NOT want to trade Petit. NEVER. I don't care who it's for. The kid's control is FREAKY. Pitchers that can paint the corners like he can don't come along too often.

Frayed Knot Nov 19 2005 09:33 AM

There's also a thought amongst scouting types that kids who get by on "pitchability"; ie. results without overwhelming stuff, tend NOT to get by with that same repetoire as they reach higher levels. Not everyone's sold on this guy. Now as always, individual mileage may vary, but Petit's a nice prospect rather than someone who needs to be protected at any and all costs. IOW, never say never.

Nymr83 Nov 19 2005 02:09 PM

considering the mets history with prospects, particularly pitchers, i'd never say a pitching prospect isn't available. as for hitters it would take a guy like Wright for me to say "we won't deal him at all"

Valadius Nov 19 2005 02:49 PM

After the Kazmir incident, I am very averse to dangling pitching prospects.

Edgy DC Nov 19 2005 08:44 PM

It's a lot easier to put peeps on the untouchable list almost a year and a half into a big-league career.

Valadius Nov 19 2005 08:57 PM

Well, David Wright is the real deal.

Rockin' Doc Nov 20 2005 07:50 AM

Frayed Knot - "There's also a thought amongst scouting types that kids who get by on "pitchability"; ie. results without overwhelming stuff, tend NOT to get by with that same repetoire as they reach higher levels. Not everyone's sold on this guy." I do believe guys with overpowering stuff have a greater likelihood of carrying minor league success on to the major league level. However, we need look no further than our annual tormenters in Atlanta to see careers that were built on control and knowing how to pitch. Greg Maddux and Tom Glavine will never be known for having "electric stuff", but they will always be known for winning. Both are now far past their primes, but they are still effective starters. I think scouts sometimes rely too much on radar guns and stop watches, rather than their eyes. I'm not saying that Petit (or anyone else is untouchable or a sure thing) but I'm not one that is prone to disregard his success because he doesn't throw 95 either.

metirish Dec 11 2005 12:57 PM

Strange article today in the Daily News... http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/373600p-317641c.html

Edgy DC Dec 11 2005 01:56 PM

He's right that Ms. Benson's comments were laden with head-scratchers, but so were his, and he's the one doing his job.

metirish Dec 11 2005 02:04 PM

Yeah the article was a head scratcher, Anna Benson is a pure eejit for what she said on her site, I'm wondering who Jim Rich is, his name rings a bell, is he a political journo?