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CALLING ALL COLLIERS - 2006

Johnny Dickshot Nov 19 2005 09:23 AM

This is the fourth annual thread where I will argue that the pursuit of bench players should focus on "young veterans" who are transitioning from full-time to part-time roles and show some versatility, a la Chris Woodward, and Ralph/Vic Sage will argue that bench players in the grand scheme aren't all that important, and I'll go yeah sure but if we'd had any kind of bench depth in 2002 we might have scared nonperforming starters like Burnitz into having better years and Ralph will say we don't suck because of Lou Collier dammit. Let's meet the 2006 bench candidates: Chris Woodward R/R -- SS, 2B, 1B, LF, RF: I like Woody. Xavier Nady R/R -- LF, RF, 1B, 3B and/or Victor Diaz R/R -- LF/RF Jeff Keppinger R/R -- 2B (only?) A. Hernandez B/R -- SS/2B -- 3B? Castro R/R is the nominal starter at C but I'm sure he'll be in the first backup role when it comes time to play. Today's Daily News quotes the agent for one-time phantom Met Mark Sweeney saying Omar has been "very aggressive" in pursuit of the guy who, ironically, was acquired in the Lou Collier Dammit trade but released during 2002 Spring Training!!!!! Mark Sweeney is a L/L 1B who hit 294/395/466 in 221 ABs (lots of PH appearances) for the Pads last year. But he'll be 36. Not sure what's with all the aggression, Omar. The I-don't-think-they're-coming-backs: Miguel Cairo R/R -- 2B/1B -- RF/LF (badly) -- Valent L/L -- 1B/LF/RF -- CF? Offerman B/R -- 1B -- LF/2B? Ice Williams R/R -- CF/LF Brian Daubach L/L -- 1B Anyway, hopefully we can use this thread to have longwinded arguments about the philosophy of the bench, evaluate the field, and to track the Met one as it evolves.

Johnny Dickshot Nov 19 2005 09:37 AM

In addition to versatility and transitioning careers (meaning: we know they can handle a starting role at least for a short while), I want the Met bench to include: * At least one (and preferably a LH/RH pair) hitter who represents extra-base power threat vs. the other guy's better relievers. * Guys who can handle the skill defensive positions effectively (SS/CF/C) * A guy who can pinch-run for the catcher when he's on first base and represents the tying run in the late innings * One or more switch-hitters so WWSB doesn't get out-matchuped all the time.

smg58 Nov 19 2005 10:22 AM

I don't what's so bad about Valent that the Mets would pursue Sweeney. The absence of Cameron means the Mets do need to find somebody who can play center besides Beltran. Is Lambin ready to take Anderson's spot?

TheOldMole Nov 19 2005 10:41 AM

Why not Valent?

Johnny Dickshot Nov 19 2005 11:10 AM

I like Valent; I just don't think he's gonna get a shot: He didn't last year while we ran out Williams, Offerman, Daubach, etc., and now that it appears we want Sweeney, have Nady/Jacobs, etc. He must be eligible to sign with another org, tho I don't know that for sure.

seawolf17 Nov 19 2005 05:27 PM

Valent must have run over someone's kitten or something, because he just keeps getting buried. I know he's not exactly Ted Williams offensively, but you get the feeling like he just needs a chance. Problem is, lefty first baseman/outfield types like Valent are a dime a dozen.

Valadius Nov 19 2005 06:24 PM

We always seem to have one more guy better than Valent. That's just my take on it.

Nymr83 Nov 19 2005 06:34 PM

the at bats given to gerald williams last year are the most puzzling thing in a long time. bench players should be good players, failing that they should be young with at least the potential to be good. Williams was neither and with 2 true centerfielders already on the team i saw no need to keep him around. lets hope the mets have a "smarter" roster this year.

Valadius Nov 19 2005 06:37 PM

Yeah, Popsicle was indeed a strange pickup. We obviously didn't need him.

Nymr83 Nov 19 2005 06:44 PM

the way the '06 roster is shaping up a guy like him almost makes sense, not that i'd want one anyway but at least its justifiable now...

OlerudOwned Nov 19 2005 07:06 PM

Nymr83 wrote: the way the '06 roster is shaping up a guy like him almost makes sense, not that i'd want one anyway but at least its justifiable now... Maybe someone like who who isn't actually him. It doesn't meet Dickshot's standard, but how cheap could Lofton come and would he accept a backup role? He proved to have plenty left in the tank last season (.335/.392 OBP/22 SB) and can play center. It's probably unrealistic though. I'm not sure is Terrence Long can play CF or not, but he might fit the "transition from starter to bench" thing.

OlerudOwned Nov 19 2005 07:27 PM

Adding to my own thoughts: [url=http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2230062]"Pittsburgh center fielder Tike Redman was removed from the 40-man roster Saturday and must be traded or released within 10 days."[/url] Worth a look? Lose one Redman and gain another, maybe.

Edgy DC Nov 19 2005 09:28 PM

]We always seem to have one more guy better than Valent. That's just my take on it. ] Problem is, lefty first baseman/outfield types like Valent are a dime a dozen. Outside of two weeks of Daubach over the summer, it's not like we had any power off the bench at all last year. It was my big bugbear. If you needed a pinch single, Anderson, Offerman, and Williams were fine choices to go to. If you need a three-run homer or a two-run double, good luck.

Rockin' Doc Nov 20 2005 08:30 AM

I like Woodward's versatility and think we should keep him around. I like Diaz as a pinch hitter with extra base power. I can see him as part of a RF platoon against left handers, but his defense scares me too much for him to be a regular. A defensive replacement in late innings of close games would likely need to be used when he starts. Nady would currently be the main competition for Diaz. Too bad he isn't a left handed bat. I like Valent, but don't feel like he ever got much of a chance from Willie. His horrendous start at the plate last season seemed to seal his fate. I think he offers the LH bat with extra base potential that the Mets lacked most of last season. I doubt he will get much opportunity with the Mets. I really liked Marlon Anderson for his overall play. He was a good role player with versatility last season. Alas, he has slipped off to Washington. I can't blame Omar, I don't think I would have given him two years guaranteed either. Castro is an effective back up at catcher. Unfortunately, as our line up currently stands he looks to be our starter next season. Obviously, there is a lot of time for moves to be made this offseason, so this will likely change in the future. I'm fine with him as our second catcher. Mike Jacobs had a promising fall. He showed a potent left handed bat, but does he have a position? I wish we knew more about his potential to handle the defensive burden at catcher. He is highly valuable as a catcher. He did a credible job for the Mets at first base, but are they sold on him enough to hand him the job and expect him to be the big power bat the line up desperately needs? I don't think they are. If the Mets acquire a true front liner for first base, where does that leave Jacobs. I still wish he could assume Piazza's role of recent years. I'm not sure what to think of A. Hernandez or Jeff Keppinger. I guess I would rather see one of them fill a bench spot that some of the over the hill gang (Cairo and Offerman) that filled the roster last year. Ice Williams serves little purpose other than as a defensive replacement in CF when Beltran isn't in the line up. I'd rather a younger player fill that role, preferably someone that can hit a little bit. Williams should be given a bus ticket to the Bronx and he should be made to take Offerman with him. Daubach is intersting. He offers lefty power and is willing to take a walk, but Jacobs is far younger and has more upside. He might be nice as a lefty bat off the bench if all the other pieces fall into place, but otherwise Jacobs makes him rather redundant. If the Mets want a Sweeney for first base, then I think they are looking at the wrong guy. Rather than Mark Sweeney I would prefer to see the Mets try to pry Mike Sweeney away form Kansas City. He would look good in the three hole with Beltran sliding into the two slot of the line up. I guess it would depend on the Royals willingness to move Sweeney and what they wanted in return for him. A lot will likely change before opening day 2006. It will be interesting to see how the line up evolves.

abogdan Nov 20 2005 11:31 AM

Nady could serve as the backup CF. He played 30 games in center for San Diego last year. As far as bench guys go, I like signing Mark Sweeney for a year. He should be a slight upgrade over Anderson, or at worse a wash. It's tough to give Collier candidates this early, since a lot of the better ones end up being non-tenders that we won't learn about for another few weeks. Does Tony Graffanino count? He'd be a great asset for the Met bench. He can get on base and backup everywhere on the infield. If we're looking for a LH hitter, Scott "Pickin' Machine" Hatteberg is a free agent.

OlerudOwned Nov 20 2005 01:30 PM

Does anyone else like the idea of Redman. He meets Dickshot's "younger guy transitioning to bench" theory, hits lefty, plays a solid CF, can run well. Stuff we need.

Johnny Dickshot Nov 20 2005 01:39 PM

Eh. Only one solid season, but generally low OBP, little power. He'd strictly be a defensive guy or pinch runner. Better than Ice Williams prolly but not an upgrade on Nady as the backup CF at present. P.S.: Tike Redman Similar Batters View in Pop-up Compare Stats 1. Marlon Byrd (974) 2. Hal Peck (969) 3. Guy Curtright (967) 4. Leon Culberson (966) 5. Lou Novikoff (963) 6. Herschel Bennett (962) 7. Randy Reese (961) 8. Al Nixon (960) >>> 9. Johnny Dickshot (960)<<< 10. Tom Poquette (959)

Edgy DC Nov 20 2005 05:31 PM

That looks like Johnny Dickshot and nine names somebody made up.

Valadius Nov 20 2005 06:45 PM

Wait a minute! Prentice and Tike Redman are brothers!

cleonjones11 Nov 20 2005 08:01 PM Hatteberg

]If we're looking for a LH hitter, Scott "Pickin' Machine" Hatteberg is a free agent. CAN HE CATCH?

Frayed Knot Nov 20 2005 09:18 PM

"Wait a minute! Prentice and Tike Redman are brothers!" Yup. "Can Hatteberg catch?" Not anymore. He was originally a catcher but blew out his elbow which is what started him on the road to being a cut-rate 1st baseman.

Vic Sage Nov 21 2005 05:17 PM

Assuming Mets sign Ramon Hernandez and can't trade Matsui... [u:031ad2f793]Starting Lineup:[/u:031ad2f793] ss- Reyes 2b- Matsui cf- Beltran Rf- Floyd 3b- Wright 1b- Jacobs Rf- Nady C- R.Hernandez [u:031ad2f793]Bench (5 - 6):[/u:031ad2f793] - Castro (c) - V.Diaz (Rf/Lf/1b/ph) - Woodward (ss/2b/3b/1b/Of) - Graffanino? - CFer/pinch-runner? - LHed Pher = _____ Sweeney? Valent? Hatteberg?

Valadius Nov 21 2005 05:18 PM

Oh boy. I don't want to suffer through another season of Beltran hitting third and Wright hitting fifth.

sharpie Nov 21 2005 05:20 PM

I didn't suffer last season. I suffered more in many other seasons. Seasons where Joe Orsulak would be batting fifth for example.

Valadius Nov 21 2005 05:22 PM

Heheh. I was 6, 7, and 8 in those seasons.

MFS62 Nov 22 2005 10:41 AM

If this thread is about possible bench players, did anyone else notice that old friend Todd Pratt is a free agent? Why spend big bucks on a free agent catcher when a lower cost alternative would be to give Castro most of the starts? Considering his fewer at bats, his numbers weren't significantly different than the two high priced spreads. And Todd could be a more than adequate fill in when Castro rests and a decent righty pinch hitter when he doesn't. Thoughts? Later

Yancy Street Gang Nov 22 2005 10:45 AM

I'd rather see them spend big bucks on a free agent catcher. They have the money to spend.

sharpie Nov 22 2005 10:46 AM

Todd is 38 and is coming off of two .250-ish years. Castro hit a robust .244 last year but is a career .222 hitter only one year away from hitting .135. Both had decent power for part-timers (Todd 7 homers, Ramon 8). I'd be very uncomfortable going into '06 with that catching corps. Either we see how Jacobs does or we go out and get a new #1 catcher.

Valadius Nov 22 2005 04:13 PM

Here's an interesting player: Eduardo Perez, 36, 1B A late bloomer, he's this year's David Delucci, only right-handed. Perez is a perfect part-time player at either first base or DH because he mashes left-handed pitching (.897 OPS last year) and hits premier power pitching, which makes him a good late-inning bat off the bench. He popped 11 homers in only 161 at-bats last year. The past three times he was given 100 at-bats in a season he posted OPS marks of .745, . 843 and .865.

OlerudOwned Nov 22 2005 04:18 PM

="Valadius"]Here's an interesting player: Eduardo Perez, 36, 1B A late bloomer, he's this year's David Delucci, only right-handed. Perez is a perfect part-time player at either first base or DH because he mashes left-handed pitching (.897 OPS last year) and hits premier power pitching, which makes him a good late-inning bat off the bench. He popped 11 homers in only 161 at-bats last year. The past three times he was given 100 at-bats in a season he posted OPS marks of .745, . 843 and .865. I remember that he completely owned the Big Eunuch this past season. Not important for the mets, but the impressive numbers are.

abogdan Nov 22 2005 04:34 PM

With Nady already in the fold, I don't see that signing another RH 1B/OF type for the bench would make great sense. If they could sign him to a minor league deal and keep him in Norfolk for a month or so until someone gets hurt, though, that would be a great idea.

Nymr83 Nov 22 2005 04:39 PM

Nady hurts lefties himself so that seems like a redundant move to me.

Frayed Knot Nov 22 2005 04:44 PM

Yeah, Perez was mentioned by some of the papers as a possible Minaya target - but that was all pre-Nady.

Vic Sage Nov 22 2005 05:04 PM

Hey, Omar! I'd be all smiles if the Mets signed Giles his age is no reason to blow it this season and just check your facts ain't no luxury tax! you win the race by gettin' on base And we'd be flyin' if we had Brian I'll get in your face and stay on your case until you stack cash in piles and go sign Brian Giles

Johnny Dickshot Nov 27 2005 07:51 AM

Today's (11/27) Daily News sez the Mets like 35 y.o. infielder Jose Valentin to assume Marlon Anderson's role. ]IN THE MIX: Infielder Jose Valentin told a Puerto Rican newspaper that Mets executive Tony Bernazard had called him saying the team was interested in signing him as a utility player. The Mets apparently used one of their Puerto Rican stars, Carlos Beltran, to help. Beltran, Valentin said, gave Bernazard his telephone number. Beltran and Valentin were both born in Manati. "Tony Bernazard called me and told me that they are interested in my services because I could play various positions and that I'd be able to play regularly like Marlon Anderson did," Valentin told the Spanish-language paper El Nuevo Dia in yesterday's editions. "I would like to be on this team because I'll be with various Puerto Rican players, Beltran and (Carlos) Delgado, and if they sign (catcher Bengie) Molina, it's even better. "Moreover," Valentin added, "I'm looking for a team with the opportunity to win a championship." Valentin, a switch-hitter, appeared in only 56 games for the Dodgers last season because of a right knee injury, batting .170 with two homers and 14 RBI. The previous year, he slugged 30 homers for the White Sox, but batted .216 with a .287 on-base percentage and made 20 errors. He was dumped and Chicago went on to win the World Series. Bill Madden obviously wrote the last sentence

Nymr83 Nov 27 2005 12:27 PM

Omar, i promise there will be plenty of utility infielders available in February, please go get us a RF/C/2B, thank you.

OlerudOwned Nov 27 2005 12:42 PM

="Johnny Dickshot"]Today's (11/27) Daily News sez the Mets like 35 y.o. infielder Jose Valentin to assume Marlon Anderson's role. He's like a bizarro Marlon. Lots-O-Power, but not good as an OBP guy. (His best season was .259 AVG / .336 OBP. It was 1996)

Edgy DC Nov 27 2005 01:30 PM

It's silly to entertain the notion that by making an offer to a potential reserve, the Mets braintrust is somehow putting on the back burner the pursuit of players to fill more featured roles. It would put some power on the bench, potenially --- although neither Jose Valentin nor Jay Bell had any power left when the Mets tried them as reserves.

Valadius Nov 28 2005 04:57 PM

OlerudOwned might be Kreskin. See page one.

Johnny Dickshot Dec 09 2005 06:36 AM

Daily News: ]With Franco and the switch-hitting Valentin joining Ramon Castro, Chris Woodward, Victor Diaz and Tike Redman, the Mets' bench seems all but complete. But a Mets official suggested the team might not be done and portrayed it as unlikely that righthanded hitting outfielders Diaz and Xavier Nady would be on the major-league roster. With Julio following in the footsteps of John and Matt, the Mets have had every player named Franco in major league history. I don't have a great feel for the Mets' take on Diaz any more.

Johnny Dickshot Dec 09 2005 08:06 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 09 2005 10:09 AM

Our Updated Bench as of 12-9: Presumed 'Starters' Chris Woodward R/R -- SS, 2B, 1B, LF, RF Xavier Nady R/R -- LF, RF, 1B, 3B and/or Victor Diaz R/R -- LF/RF Castro R/R -- C Julio Franco R/R -- 1B Jose Valentin B/R -- 3B, 1B, 2B, SS, LF Tike Redman, B/R -- CF, LF, RF The Minor Candidates: Jeff Keppinger R/R -- 2B A. Hernandez B/R -- SS/2B -- 3B? Eric Valent L/L -- 1B/LF/RF -- CF? Brian Daubach L/L -- 1B Out of the race: Mark Sweeney -- L/L 1B -- Signed with SF Miguel Cairo R/R -- 2B, 1B, LF, RF -- nontendered Jose Offerman B/R -- 1B -- LF/2B -- nontendered Ice Williams R/R -- CF/LF -- nontendered

Edgy DC Dec 09 2005 08:13 AM

Mets.com is still listing Franco's signing as "possible."

Rotblatt Dec 09 2005 09:44 AM

You're missing Tike Redman in there, JD. Of course, he's kind of useless as a lefty off the bench since he has a reverse split, but at least technically he'll be joining Valentin as a lefty.

sharpie Dec 09 2005 09:51 AM

Looks like Tike'll make it because they will need a CF option. That makes 14 hitters, 11 pitchers, which is the split that I like. This isn't a bad bench.

Elster88 Dec 09 2005 09:53 AM

I like Woody

MFS62 Dec 09 2005 10:05 AM

JD, re: your list If Nady AND Diaz both ride the pine as bench players, who are you saying would be the "regular" right fielder, Tike? Who else? Later

Johnny Dickshot Dec 09 2005 10:05 AM

Thanks rottty, I'll add.

Vic Sage Dec 09 2005 11:29 AM

i think Diaz might go, and they'll use a 5 man bench to carry 12 pitchers (maybe keeping the rule 5 guy).

Rockin' Doc Dec 11 2005 06:04 PM

That bench could use a left handed power threat. Tike Redman and John Valentin don't offer much power from either side of the plate.

Frayed Knot Dec 11 2005 10:09 PM

Valentin (Jose, not John) a switch-hitter, is a decent HR threat. In fact, that's all he may be at this point.

Elster88 Dec 11 2005 11:03 PM

Rockin' Doc wrote: That bench could use a left handed power threat. Tike Redman and John Valentin don't offer much power from either side of the plate. I think too much of this is made sometimes. We didn't have a left-handed power threat on the bench last year and the bench had one of the greatest "bench seasons" of all time, I think. Woody and Castro, just off the top of my head, had game winning homers, even if Castro's was as a starter. Both of those guys are coming back. Now we add Valentin who has power. Lefty vs righty may not be such a big difference. Put a guy up there who can hit a double and hope for the best if nothing else.

Frayed Knot Dec 11 2005 11:34 PM

We got some good bench play last year -- but it was mostly singles. Yeah, there were some HRs - and some timely ones too - but every team's going to get their share of those, even if only by accident. The problem we'd have in trying to re-create last year's irregulars is that it'll be tough to count on as many hits finding holes as last season. We were good but mainly from a BA standpoint. Any duplication could be purely coincidental because there were just too many "similar" players; too many slap-hitting, middle infielders; Offerman, Anderson, Woodward, etc., and even our OF sub - "Ice" - was a singles hitter. Every once in a while you need someone who has the ability to make the opposing manager wet his pants in late innings, or at least change pitchers as soon as the PH is seen swinging sledge-hammers in the on-deck circle. Tony Clark, for instance, would have been a menace on last year's squad. I'm not sure if Valentin's going to be that guy but he's a start. So is Old Man River plus the sitting half of Nady/Diaz. btw, If Nady starts the year riding the bench, I betting it won't take to long for the first columnist to suggest that 'no one (esp Willie) puts Nady in a corner' (OF position)

Rockin' Doc Dec 11 2005 11:53 PM

Frayed Knot - "Valentin (Jose, not John) a switch-hitter, is a decent HR threat..." Ever since the Mets signed Jose Valentin, my feeble mind has kept insisting it was former Met John Valentin. Even though I know John Valentin was exclusively a right handed player, retired from baseball following his 2002 season with the Mets, and he looked nothing like Jose Valentin, my mind kept stubbornly overlooking those facts since they did not support the preconcieved notions I had imagined. Though I'm pretty sure I would have eventually figured out my error sometime between now and spring training, I appreciate you pointing out my error. That explains quite a bit. Without question, Jose Valentin has historically posed a greater home run threat than John Valentin did during his career..