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Coaching Changes

bmfc1 Oct 05 2011 01:15 PM

AdamRubinESPN Adam Rubin Bench coach Ken Oberkfell, bullpen coach Jon Debus, third base coach Chip Hale, first baes coach Mookie Wilson out. Hitting coach Dave Hudgens, pitching coach Dan Warthen remain in roles The New York Mets today announced that Bench Coach Ken Oberkfell, Third Base Coach Chip Hale, First Base Coach Mookie Wilson and Bullpen Coach Jon Debus will not return to the major league club for the 2012 season. Tim Teufel will take over as Third Base Coach and Ricky Bones will become Bullpen Coach. Hitting Coach Dave Hudgens and Pitching Coach Dan Warthen will return to Manager Terry Collins’ staff in the same positions next year. Hale declined an offer to remain on Collins’ staff to pursue another Major League coaching opportunity. Wilson and Debus will be offered other positions within the organization. Teufel was the Manager of the Buffalo Bisons (AAA) of the International League for the 2011 season and Bones was Pitching Coach. The Mets will announce further additions to the Major League coaching staff in the coming weeks.

Edgy MD Oct 05 2011 01:18 PM Re: Coaching Changes

Brutal! And, insofar as I connect Wilson and Oberkfell with the team's defensive breakdown, sadly warrented. Accountability's a bitch. Chip Hale, though. What's the story there? Interviewing for the Red Sox job?

bmfc1 Oct 05 2011 01:19 PM Re: Coaching Changes Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 05 2011 02:11 PM

I wonder if Wally Backman gets moved up to AAA. Rubin writes: Sandy Alderson indicated Wally Backman likely replaces Tim Teufel as Buffalo manager.

metirish Oct 05 2011 01:28 PM Re: Coaching Changes Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 05 2011 01:40 PM

Wharten stays with all those changes? Brutal indeed.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 05 2011 01:32 PM Re: Coaching Changes

So Mookie will be offered another job in the organization, but Oberkfell won't? I'm sure it's because of the Metliness factor.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 05 2011 01:37 PM Re: Coaching Changes

Chip Hale is close with Bob Melvin, expected to show up in Oakland. Huggiebear was the only one with a contract past this year. Oberkfell is the surprise I guess, from what I ready Terry liked him but his Met roots are Omar Era.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 05 2011 01:39 PM Re: Coaching Changes

Hale already signed a 2year deal to be Melvin's co-pilot.

Edgy MD Oct 05 2011 01:40 PM Re: Coaching Changes

So Mookie will be offered another job in the organization, but Oberkfell won't? I'm sure it's because of the Metliness factor. Well, considering he's historically served between uniform stints as a brand ambassador, that's somewhat appropriate. Mookie's a resilient guy. The Mets have taken that uniform away from him seemingly a half dozen times by now, and he keeps coming back for more. The guy has his own trucking business and drives trucks in the offseason. Long rides through the night with just himself and the radio for company. He doesn't need the uniform to affirm his identity. He's good with who he is.

Ceetar Oct 05 2011 01:44 PM Re: Coaching Changes

As I'm sure has been made clear, I dislike keeping Warthen. Especially when the biggest reason cited is things like 'preparedness' and that the pitchers really like him. Screw his relationship with Mike Pelfrey..they can chat on the phone between starts.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 05 2011 01:46 PM Re: Coaching Changes

Tracky says Mook was whacked for subpar outfielding and Debus punished for failures of the bullpen and catching corps. Next bench coach said to prefer to have ML managing experience, maybe a guy like Jiggleman would be a good choice for us, given we're looking up at the Nats now. Ceets, with all due respect I don;t see how fans have any insight to what works and doesn't work wrt coaching, unless its something obvious like third-base decisions etc

Edgy MD Oct 05 2011 01:52 PM Re: Coaching Changes

I thought the team's outfielding deteriorated the last time they had Mookie, also. Cedeno deteriorated as a basestealer as well. I would guess you don't want guys teaching defense necessarily who brought prodigious athletic skills to the job, but rather guys who had something less but mastered the mechanics of it. I'm not sure who I would cite as an example. Interestingly, Terry inherted Warthan but stuck with him, just like Willie inherited Peterson and stuck with him.

Ceetar Oct 05 2011 02:01 PM Re: Coaching Changes

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Ceets, with all due respect I don;t see how fans have any insight to what works and doesn't work wrt coaching, unless its something obvious like third-base decisions etc I'm fully aware of that. I'll claim the same for GM. All we have to go on is news bytes and results. He certainly doesn't seem to be 'top of the line' which is what I think the Mets should be working for. All of Alderson's BS about being a world-class organization and all that. But the starting pitching is the biggest weakness, so find the guy that's going to get every last ounce of value out of it. From my observations, Warthen doesn't seem to have provided much in terms of growth. Niese tailed off in 2010, and he started doing a similar struggle near the late part of this season, which maybe attributed to his injury, which Warthen apparently let him pitch through. Warthen may be good at preparation, but that only goes so far. (And yes, most of the starters stayed pretty healthy. ) But what about adjusting to changing scouting reports? Take Pelfrey in 2010. Started brilliantly as, literally, one of the best pitchers in the league. Attributed in part to a new pitch. League starts catching up to him, and he has a disastrous August. (or was it July? it's a blur) He finished okay, but where was Warthen to help him readjust his thinking, his pitch setups and sequences? You see similar things in-game too. Pitchers, like Gee ,cruising through 3-4 and then all of a sudden the batters are all over it. Where's Dan to come out and say "Dillon, they're sitting on your change up 2-0, you're too predictable. Make 'em chase here." It's that kind of insight I want from a coach. I don't see/hear it from Dan. You hear some of these guys talk pitching and they just sound smart. You hear Pelfrey or Warthen talk and it doesn't ring with the same intelligence. Yes, this is just my observations, and it doesn't mean it's true. Maybe they are trying to alter pitch sequences and the pitcher just isn't executing. Maybe it's simply mechanics wearing down, and there's nothing Warthen can do because preach repetition as they fail. It's going to be my personal goal to try to pay a little closer attention to specific pitches and this stuff next year, but that doesn't make me (or any other independent observer) an expert in figuring out what's going on between Pitcher, Catcher and Coach when they develop a game plan. I just know it hasn't been working.

attgig Oct 05 2011 02:12 PM Re: Coaching Changes

Edgy DC wrote: I thought the team's outfielding deteriorated the last time they had Mookie, also. Cedeno deteriorated as a basestealer as well. I would guess you don't want guys teaching defense necessarily who brought prodigious athletic skills to the job, but rather guys who had something less but mastered the mechanics of it. I'm not sure who I would cite as an example. Interestingly, Terry inherted Warthan but stuck with him, just like Willie inherited Peterson and stuck with him. where's joe mcewing?

Edgy MD Oct 05 2011 02:16 PM Re: Coaching Changes

I wouldn't mind seeing Warthan go, because I hate seeing guys *CoughPelfrey* get ahead 0-2 with runners on base, and then give up that advantage by bouncing curveballs away, only to come back inside and groove one 2-2 or 3-2 for the heartbreaker. I associate that sequence withe Warthan. But it may be over-simplistic for me to believe it came with him or leaves with him. I don't know who to hang for pitchers being pulled while they're still effective --- Warthan? Collins? Debus? Going to Byrdak with two out in the seventh and a guy at first or nobody on? Really? Stop that shit.

Edgy MD Oct 05 2011 02:20 PM Re: Coaching Changes

where's joe mcewing? SuperJoe is the Chicago AAA manager, probably getting at least a token interview for the big job, but he's a very intriguing nomination. It may speak to the team's intention with Wright. He probably would coach infielders better than outfielders, though.

Frayed Knot Oct 05 2011 02:24 PM Re: Coaching Changes

Peterson was forever frustrated with Pelfrey as well, often commenting that the one he saw in the bullpen was not the one who wound up on the mound. Point being that at some point it becomes about Pelfrey rather than the coaches.

Vic Sage Oct 05 2011 02:31 PM Re: Coaching Changes

i think the coaches should just be called in, one at a time, so Sandy can hit them with a sock filled with batteries until they spit blood. just, you know, because.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 05 2011 02:39 PM Re: Coaching Changes

I think they should hire Joe Pignatano, Yogi Berra, Eddie Yost, and the ghost of Rube Walker. (It's amazing that most of Gil Hodges' coaching staff is still alive.)

Gwreck Oct 05 2011 03:27 PM Re: Coaching Changes

It's a real shame to lose Hale. I never understood why Wally Backman would have been any better than Chip as manager.

bmfc1 Oct 05 2011 03:41 PM Re: Coaching Changes

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: ... Next bench coach said to prefer to have ML managing experience, maybe a guy like Jiggleman would be a good choice for us, given we're looking up at the Nats now. Nice going: NYPost_Mets Mike Puma by AdamRubinESPN Source says Larry Bowa and Jim Riggelman are among the candidates team will consider for bench coach. Both are tight with Collins .

TransMonk Oct 05 2011 03:51 PM Re: Coaching Changes

Not for nothing, but I'm still a little weary of Riggleman and the way he left DC. I'm not sure I want a guy who quit on his team because of a personal disagreement over his contract having any influence on this team.

metirish Oct 05 2011 03:53 PM Re: Coaching Changes

Bowa I would have thought was a bit like Collins, tightly wound, not a bad choice though.

Edgy MD Oct 05 2011 07:47 PM Re: Coaching Changes

I'm cool with Riggleman, and his choice. Even if he did overplay his hand, his threat was called and he made his move. I might have felt different if it was a player, my team, or a standings position above fourth place, but for some reason, I kind of approve. Nobody likes being a lame duck.

Valadius Oct 05 2011 09:29 PM Re: Coaching Changes

Don't see how Warthen can continue to stick around, Collins ought to be able to choose his own pitching coach, and if they have another shitty season he's out the door and we try again with another managerial staff.

Edgy MD Oct 06 2011 06:24 AM Re: Coaching Changes

I get the idea that Collins' has chosen him.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 06 2011 06:25 AM Re: Coaching Changes

Edgy DC wrote: I'm cool with Riggleman, and his choice. Even if he did overplay his hand, his threat was called and he made his move. I might have felt different if it was a player, my team, or a standings position above fourth place, but for some reason, I kind of approve. Nobody likes being a lame duck. And the fact is, he's a leading candidate for a "heartbeat away" slot only months later, not like it was total career suicide after all.

Edgy MD Oct 06 2011 07:56 AM Re: Coaching Changes

He's held four managerial positions --- three of them he's gotten by being in the right place at the right time after somebody loses the job in-season. The fourth he got replacing Tom Trebelhorn after a strike year and a top-down shakeup by the Cubs, hired by his friend and ally, Ed Lynch. I think he's got a sense of how the game is played. Work hard, take a little shit, make friends, make conservative choices, write your bread and butter notes, and be ready to mount your horse when the officer in front of you goes down. Field promotions are a big part of the game, and friendly, conservative, hardworking experienced guys have been falling upward for as long as there have been managers. Anybody asks him about the resignation, he can say, "I was doing my job, I had the team winning, but they were renewing everybody else's contract but mine, and in fact had already hired my successor. You understand that that's not a manageable work environment, and the best thing I could do for the team was to get myself out of the way and let them get started under Davey as soon as possible."

TransMonk Oct 06 2011 08:19 AM Re: Coaching Changes

Meh. He can say whatever he wants. Were the conditions tough for Riggleman personally? Probably. But, there's been a lot of talk about honor lately, and I think as the leader of a group of men, the last thing you can do is quit on them. This topic has been covered before. I'm fine with him as bench coach if it comes to pass. He's been around baseball long enough that I don't question his smarts. But if Terry gets hit by a bus and Riggleman is promoted to manager, I'll have some concerns. Sandy better have a contract extension ready.

Vic Sage Oct 06 2011 08:21 AM Re: Coaching Changes

But if Terry gets hit by a bus and Riggleman is promoted to manager, I'll have some concerns. i continue to have concerns if that bus doesn't show up.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 06 2011 10:45 AM Re: Coaching Changes

Add two more names to the list of potential bench coaches: Adam Rubin wrote: Former major league managers Jim Riggleman, John McLaren, Bob Geren and Larry Bowa appear on the New York Mets' internal list of candidates to become bench coach, organization sources told ESPNNewYork.com.

Edgy MD Oct 06 2011 11:01 AM Re: Coaching Changes

Bob Geren's got a nice, solid managerial head on his shoulders. I'm in a storm, I have confidence that head is gonna steward me through to the other side. The Many Faces of Bob Geren Bold Disappointed Introspective Searching Faithful Depressed Defiant! Constipated Resigned

Vic Sage Oct 06 2011 02:16 PM Re: Coaching Changes

in a pinch, you could probably use that head as a flotation device.

seawolf17 Oct 06 2011 02:20 PM Re: Coaching Changes

I love error cards. Don't know who it is, but it ain't Geren.

Edgy MD Oct 11 2011 10:08 PM Re: Coaching Changes

Mike Puma, sinking his teeth into the story like the cat that shares his name. Backman could leave Mets for Nationals Mets Blog Mets on Twitter By MIKE PUMA Last Updated: 3:49 PM, October 11, 2011 Posted: 3:13 AM, October 11, 2011 Wally Backman, a candidate for the Mets' managerial opening last offseason, could soon leave the organization, according to a team source. The fiery Backman, 52, is considering the possibility of joining Davey Johnson's coaching staff with the Nationals -- likely as the third-base coach. The Nationals have not yet officially announced Johnson will return next season, but that is considered a formality. The source said 68-year-old Johnson may look to groom Backman for the managerial job, much in the same manner Bobby Cox took Fredi Gonzalez under his wing with the Braves before retiring. Johnson was Backman's manager with the Mets in the 1980s, a run that culminated with a World Series title in 1986. Backman spent last season managing Double-A Binghamton to a 65-76 record in the Eastern League. He is the front runner to manage at Triple-A Buffalo next season if he stays with the Mets, but he is not a candidate for the major-league staff. The Mets recently promoted Tim Teufel, who spent last season managing at Buffalo, to third-base coach with the major-league club. Chip Hale, who had been the Mets' third-base coach, last week was named Athletics bench coach. The Mets are still searching for a bench coach and first base coach. Ken Oberkfell and Mookie Wilson will not return next season. Backman was a finalist -- along with Hale and Bob Melvin -- for the managerial job that went to Terry Collins last winter. The Mets recently picked up Collins' option for 2013, and Backman could view the Nationals' coaching opportunity as a quicker path to managing in the big leagues. Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/bac ... z1aXM3XAbn

metirish Oct 12 2011 07:30 AM Re: Coaching Changes

Sounds like it would be a good move for Wally.

Frayed Knot Oct 12 2011 07:40 AM Re: Coaching Changes

Shirley a guy with the name of Mike Puma could come up with a more enticing headline for this story. Something maybe on the order of: Davey got Back(man)

Edgy MD Oct 12 2011 07:46 AM Re: Coaching Changes

Well, he'd have to put a question mark after it, as he's got one un-named team source. If nothing else, the story gives him a few ounces more leverage in maneuvering for his 2012 assignment in Metville.

Edgy MD Oct 12 2011 03:01 PM Re: Coaching Changes

Andy Martino says Bowa is off the list of potential Met bench coaches, but unsure whether he removed his name or the Mets have. Mr. Bigglesworth interviewed today.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 12 2011 06:55 PM Re: Coaching Changes

Edgy DC wrote: Andy Martino says Bowa is off the list of potential Met bench coaches, but unsure whether he removed his name or the Mets have. Mr. Bigglesworth interviewed today. Galarraga?

TransMonk Oct 14 2011 09:39 AM Re: Coaching Changes

Per Metsblog, it looks like the job is going to be Geren's according to Heyman.

TransMonk Oct 14 2011 03:59 PM Re: Coaching Changes

Heyman today on CNNSI: Jim Riggleman would have been a great choice for Mets bench coach. He is close with Terry Collins. Of course, the front office there seems to hold all the power, so it's not a surprise that they hired as bench coach another Oakland friend, Bob Geren, who wasn't too well-liked by some A's players. In an interview with the San Francisco Chronicle, Huston Street called Geren, "My least favorite I have ever encountered in sports.'' Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/w ... z1anOn9y00

metirish Oct 14 2011 04:53 PM Re: Coaching Changes

Heyman with some negative Mets reports, shocker.

Frayed Knot Oct 14 2011 05:13 PM Re: Coaching Changes

That Street/Geren story is nothing new. It came out earlier this year when Geren was let go as Oakland mgr.

Edgy MD Oct 14 2011 05:43 PM Re: Coaching Changes

Heyman today on CNNSI: Jim Riggleman would have been a great choice for Mets bench coach. He is close with Terry Collins. Of course, the front office there seems to hold all the power, so it's not a surprise that they hired as bench coach another Oakland friend, Bob Geren, who wasn't too well-liked by some A's players. In an interview with the San Francisco Chronicle, Huston Street called Geren, "My least favorite I have ever encountered in sports.'' Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/w ... z1anOn9y00 A big shut-up to John Heyman.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 14 2011 05:53 PM Re: Coaching Changes

Of course it's possible that Street is the jerk here. I don't know that, of course, but just sayin'.

Edgy MD Oct 14 2011 06:29 PM Re: Coaching Changes

Well, both he and Brandon Fuentes complained about "unorthodox" managing style, which I took to mean "not coddling the closer." I get that he wasn't ready to go down by locking people into roles they weren't succeeding at. But I guess he was juggling them and not letting them know their changing stati. That's not cool, but... they failed him, too, you know?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 14 2011 09:24 PM Re: Coaching Changes

Heyman today on CNNSI: Jim Riggleman would have been a great choice for Mets bench coach. He is close with Terry Collins. Of course, the front office there seems to hold all the power, so it's not a surprise that they hired as bench coach another Oakland friend, Bob Geren, who wasn't too well-liked by some A's players. In an interview with the San Francisco Chronicle, Huston Street called Geren, "My least favorite I have ever encountered in sports.'' Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/w ... z1anOn9y00 "Another Oakland friend?" Whichever junior Borasite is doing your fact-checking, Jon-boy, you're going to have to start double-checking. Alderson never worked with or over Geren at any point during his tenure with the A's (or Padres, for that matter).

bmfc1 Oct 15 2011 08:26 AM Re: Coaching Changes

Heyman will use any opportunity to give the Mets a shot, even if it has no basis in fact.

Ceetar Oct 15 2011 11:10 AM Re: Coaching Changes

They only sign Oakland/Moneyball/OBP guys is the new they only sign Latin guys.

MFS62 Oct 15 2011 05:10 PM Re: Coaching Changes

Heard a Backman interview on radio today (WFAN?) during which he said he won't be leaving the Mets organization. Talked about their future, especially pitching. It sounded like he'll be managing Buffalo next year. Later

Edgy MD Oct 15 2011 07:46 PM Re: Coaching Changes

bmfc1 wrote: Heyman will use any opportunity to give the Mets a shot, even if it has no basis in fact. And is there any doubt that, had the Mets chosen Riggleman, Heydude's opinion on him would have fallen from "great choice" to Quitty McQuitstein, who quit on his team and will quit on you too if you give him half a chance? Every day, Heyman misses Benitez more and more.

Ceetar Oct 29 2011 10:02 AM Re: Coaching Changes

The moment we've all been waiting for. METS NAME TOM GOODWIN FIRST BASE COACH FLUSHING, N.Y., October 29, 2011 – The New York Mets today announced Tom Goodwin as first base coach. Goodwin, 43, finished his fourth year with the Boston Red Sox organization last season and his third as the organization’s Minor League Outfield and Base Running Coordinator. He coached Lowell (A) of the New York-Penn League in 2008, where the Spinners finished first with a 40-33 record. Goodwin also managed the Lewisville Lizards of the independent Continental Baseball League in 2007. Originally drafted out of Fresno State University in the first round of the 1989 Amateur Draft by Los Angeles (NL), Goodwin played 14 seasons in the majors and finished with a .268 (1,029-3,846) lifetime batting average. The outfielder and native of Fresno, CA played 1,288 games for the Dodgers, Kansas City Royals, Texas Rangers, Colorado Rockies, San Francisco Giants and Chicago Cubs. Goodwin recorded four seasons of at least 50 steals, with a career-best 66 swipes in 1996 for Kansas City and finished his career with 369 stolen bases. From 1995-2000, he never finished lower than seventh in the American League in steals. Goodwin won an Olympic Gold Medal in 1988 as a member of Team USA’s baseball squad.

Edgy MD Oct 29 2011 10:34 AM Re: Coaching Changes

That's interesting. I was looking for an infielder, but I'll take it. Pretty analogous to Pettis. [list:3rtkl9yt][*:3rtkl9yt]Each is a speedy former outfielder.[/*:m:3rtkl9yt] [*:3rtkl9yt]Each spent the majority of his career in the AL.[/*:m:3rtkl9yt] [*:3rtkl9yt]Each wore Willie Mays' 24 with the Rangers.[/*:m:3rtkl9yt] [*:3rtkl9yt]Each played about 1,200 games.[/*:m:3rtkl9yt] [*:3rtkl9yt]Each stole about 350 bases.[/*:m:3rtkl9yt] [*:3rtkl9yt]Each had negligible power --- 21 and 24 career homers.[/*:m:3rtkl9yt] [*:3rtkl9yt]Each is listed at 6'1" and 165.[/*:m:3rtkl9yt] [*:3rtkl9yt]Each sadly (but justifiably) replaces Mookie Wilson as Mets first base coach and outfield coach.[/*:m:3rtkl9yt][/list:u:3rtkl9yt] Main difference is Pettis got more walks and Goodwin more singles.

Edgy MD Oct 29 2011 11:14 AM Re: Coaching Changes

I was expecting a lot of transactions and appointments that people were sitting on during the World Series and earlier to be announced Monday, but I guess this wasn't big enough for anything more than a press release, so they let it off the leash on a cold, precipitous Saturday.

Ceetar Oct 29 2011 08:06 PM Re: Coaching Changes

Edgy DC wrote: I was expecting a lot of transactions and appointments that people were sitting on during the World Series and earlier to be announced Monday, but I guess this wasn't big enough for anything more than a press release, so they let it off the leash on a cold, precipitous Saturday. yeah, probably not. the beat guys didn't even have it before the press release email.

SteveJRogers Oct 30 2011 06:16 PM Re: Coaching Changes

bmfc1 wrote: Heyman will use any opportunity to give the Mets a shot, even if it has no basis in fact. Three GM regimes ago (if you count Duquette as his own guy and not an extension of Phillips) but I wonder if that's yet another shot at the Art Howe hiring, and therefore a not so subtle suggestion that Fred & Jeff still carry more weight than the GM. Course that is giving Heyman too much credit in his jabs...