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Tom Seaver Award

Edgy MD Oct 16 2011 01:12 PM

Please vote for your top five Mets starying pitchers of 2011. They will be awarded five points for each first-place vote, four for each second-place vote, etc. He with most points after a week is awarded the Crane Pool Forum Tom Seaver Award for Outstanding Mets Starting Pitcher. By my reckoning, nine Mets potentially qualify for this award: Miguel Batista, Chris Capuano, D.J. Carrasco, R.A. Dickey, Dillon Gee, Jonathon Niese, Mike Pelfrey, Chris Schwinden, and Chris Young. Please vote so we may honor the most esteemed of the Mets' starters. Tweeters, please promote the vote. W L W-L% ERA G GS GF CG SHO SV IP H R ER HR BB IBB SO HBP BK BF WHIP SO/9 SO/BB Miguel Batista 2 0 1.000 2.42 4 4 0 1 1 0 26.00 18 7 7 0 12 0 12 2 0 106 1.154 4.2 1.00 Chris Capuano 11 12 .478 4.52 31 31 0 1 1 0 185.00 195 98 93 27 52 5 168 5 0 795 1.335 8.2 3.23 D.J. Carrasco 0 1 .000 7.36 1 1 0 0 0 0 3.67 4 3 3 3 3 0 2 1 0 18 1.909 4.9 0.67 R.A. Dickey 8 13 .381 3.29 32 32 0 1 0 0 207.67 201 85 76 18 54 2 133 9 1 872 1.228 5.8 2.46 Dillon Gee 13 6 .684 4.32 27 27 0 1 0 0 156..33 147 81 75 17 68 3 110 13 1 686 1.375 6.3 1.62 Jonathon Niese 11 11 .500 4.30 26 26 0 0 0 0 157.00 176 86 75 14 44 4 138 5 0 691 1.401 7.9 3.14 Mike Pelfrey 7 13 .350 4.70 33 33 0 2 0 0 193.33 218 110 101 21 65 7 105 7 2 857 1.464 4.9 1.62 Chris Schwinden 0 2 .000 4.71 4 4 0 0 0 0 21.00 23 13 11 1 6 2 17 1 0 95 1.381 7.3 2.83 Chris Young 1 0 1.000 1.88 4 4 0 0 0 0 24.00 12 5 5 3 11 0 22 1 0 95 0.958 8.3 2.00

bmfc1 Oct 16 2011 02:35 PM Re: Tom Seaver Award Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 16 2011 04:28 PM

1--Dickey 2--Gee 3--Niese 4--Capuano 5--Batista 10--Pelfrey

Benjamin Grimm Oct 16 2011 02:42 PM Re: Tom Seaver Award

My vote: Dickey Niese Gee Capuano Pelfrey And, if Schaefer votes count: Schaefer wrote: Dickey Capuano Pelfrey Gee Niese

Edgy MD Oct 16 2011 02:45 PM Re: Tom Seaver Award

The real challenge is deciding whether to seriously consider Young and Batista.

seawolf17 Oct 16 2011 04:10 PM Re: Tom Seaver Award

Dickey Gee Niese Capuano Young

Gwreck Oct 16 2011 04:12 PM Re: Tom Seaver Award

Dickey Capuano Gee Niese Pelfrey

bmfc1 Oct 16 2011 04:27 PM Re: Tom Seaver Award Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 16 2011 04:29 PM

Edgy DC wrote: The real challenge is deciding whether to seriously consider Young and Batista. You asked for five. With only nine candidates, and one of them is Pelfrey who I ranked as 10 out of 9, you have to consider all nine to fill the five slots.

MFS62 Oct 16 2011 04:28 PM Re: Tom Seaver Award

Dickey Gee Capuano Niese Young Later

Edgy MD Oct 16 2011 04:32 PM Re: Tom Seaver Award

Dickey Capuano Niese Gee Pelfrey

smg58 Oct 16 2011 05:42 PM Re: Tom Seaver Award

Dickey Niese Gee Young Batista

G-Fafif Oct 16 2011 06:02 PM Re: Tom Seaver Award

1. Dickey 2. Capuano 3. Gee 4. Niese 5. Pelfrey

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 16 2011 06:06 PM Re: Tom Seaver Award

Dickey Niese Gee Capuano Pelfrey

Fman99 Oct 16 2011 07:18 PM Re: Tom Seaver Award

Dickey Gee Niese Capuano Young

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 16 2011 08:03 PM Re: Tom Seaver Award

Dickey Niese Capuano Pelfrey Gee

Ceetar Oct 17 2011 05:57 AM Re: Tom Seaver Award

Dickey Capuano Pelfrey Niese Gee My vote was heavily swayed towards IP. The best thing some of these guys did was keep Misch off the board.

RealityChuck Oct 17 2011 07:25 AM Re: Tom Seaver Award

Dickey Gee Niese Capuano Pelfrey (only because we need to name five).

metirish Oct 17 2011 07:35 AM Re: Tom Seaver Award

Dickey Niese Gee Capuano Pelfrey

TransMonk Oct 17 2011 07:48 AM Re: Tom Seaver Award

Dickey Niese Gee Capuano Pelfrey

HahnSolo Oct 17 2011 08:43 AM Re: Tom Seaver Award

Cap's numbers are actually better than my gut would have told me. And I didn't realize how close Gee's and Niese's numbers really are. Dickey Capuano Niese Gee Pelf

attgig Oct 17 2011 12:16 PM Re: Tom Seaver Award

Niese Dickey Capuano Gee Young

TheOldMole Oct 17 2011 12:44 PM Re: Tom Seaver Award

Dickey Gee Capuano Niese Pelfrey

Vic Sage Oct 17 2011 12:49 PM Re: Tom Seaver Award Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 17 2011 12:59 PM

i think slots 1 & 5 are pretty clear; Dickey was the best SP we had this year, by just about any meaningful measure, and Pelfrey was the worst REGULAR starter. If, instead, you listed a guy in the 5th slot who had only a handful of starts because Pelfrey was just so awful, that's certainly your prerogative, but by that measure, I was the Mets' 5th best SPer, because i did way less damage than Pelfrey too. 2,3 and 4 are Capuano, Niese and Gee in some order, each of which is justifiable in one way or another. Niese had the best ERA and K/rate, but the highest WHIP. He started strong and weakened in the 2nd half before getting hurt. Gee was similar, starting strong and weakening, but with a better W-L record (for whatever that's worth), slightly better WHIP, tiny bit weaker ERA. He was harder to hit than Niese, but gave up more walks and had the worst K/rate and BB/K ratio. Capuano has the best WHIP, best k/rate and BB/K ratio, more IP and starts, though a slightly weaker ERA. I guess i'd go with Capuano, based on his ratios and his IP, and overall importance to the rotation, with Niese and Gee a toss-up, but i'll lean to Niese because of his superior ratios. I don't think Gee showed the kind of dominant stuff Niese did on occasion, and the stats bear that out. Gee was effective in spots, but his W-L was, IMO, was a function of randomness rather than ability. 1) DICKEY 2) CAPUANO 3) NIESE 4) GEE 5) PELFREY

Vic Sage Oct 17 2011 12:56 PM Re: Tom Seaver Award

Ceetar wrote: Dickey Capuano Pelfrey Niese Gee My vote was heavily swayed towards IP. The best thing some of these guys did was keep Misch off the board. I would agree in principal, that IP matters, but when the guy giving you those innings is also the worst starter on the staff by any statistical measurement you want to make, then you have to adjust, it seems to me. Yes, Pelf had more IP than Niese or Gee (Niese got hurt and Gee came up late), but not THAT much more (about 6 more starts, at average of just under 6 IP per start) and he was significantly worse during those innings than either of those guys, any way you look at it.

Ceetar Oct 17 2011 01:25 PM Re: Tom Seaver Award

Vic Sage wrote: Ceetar wrote: Dickey Capuano Pelfrey Niese Gee My vote was heavily swayed towards IP. The best thing some of these guys did was keep Misch off the board. I would agree in principal, that IP matters, but when the guy giving you those innings is also the worst starter on the staff by any statistical measurement you want to make, then you have to adjust, it seems to me. Yes, Pelf had more IP than Niese or Gee (Niese got hurt and Gee came up late), but not THAT much more (about 6 more starts, at average of just under 6 IP per start) and he was significantly worse during those innings than either of those guys, any way you look at it. Depends where you assign the most value. by rWAR Cap had 1.7, Gee 1.6, Pelf 1.4, and Niese 1.3. Those are all pretty close. The Mets had no pitching depth, which is why I was valuing IP a little more than normal. Batista ended up doing okay, but I expected worse were the Mets to need another starter in July. Had the team stayed healthy and on the field in the infield, I think the defense would've been much improved, which helps out Pelfrey the most.

metsmarathon Oct 17 2011 01:55 PM Re: Tom Seaver Award

using my proprietary marathon points metric, i offer the following ranking of metly starting pitchers: dickey 288.5 capuano 118.3 niese 115.2 gee 112.6 pelfrey 83.3 batista sits at 75 with young at 62. thanks to the quirkiness of schaefer voting, i actually awarded pelfrey the 2nd most schaefer votes of any starting pitcher. which basically means that he was both really good and really bad. not what you really want to rely upon.

dgwphotography Oct 17 2011 04:53 PM Re: Tom Seaver Award

Dickey Niese Gee Capuano Pelfrey

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 17 2011 08:52 PM Re: Tom Seaver Award

More strikeouts, fewer walks, a slightly better home run rate, and a lot less luck with seeing-eye grounders (Niese gave up fewer line drives and flies, but a much higher BABIP, .331-to-.272). Jon Niese is NO Dillon Gee... he's a young, better Capuano, and was the second-best pitcher in the rotation on the year, better enough than Capuano-- who was solid in his own way, and did have that one magical pre-hurricane evening in August-- to make up for the innings-pitched difference. In fact, if you look under the hood, Gee's numbers are lot more Pelfy than you may remember... except with less strikeouts, about as many walks (in fewer innings), and a lot more BABIP luck. Pelf edges him out in my ledger because he gave the same performance, only more of it.

m.e.t.b.o.t. Oct 18 2011 08:04 AM Re: Tom Seaver Award

m.e.t.b.o.t. has determined, using a proprietary and highly suspect algorithm which accounts for both win probability and playing time, that the five metropolitan starting pitchers who performed the best are as follows and in descending order: dickey pelfrey young batista niese the formula m.e.t.b.o.t. used is as follows: score = (500 * adjPT) + adjWPA adjPT = adjusted playing time = 100 * adjPT% adjPT% = adjusted percentage of playing time adjWPA = adjusted win probability added adjusted win probability added is the formula by which m.e.t.b.o.t. determines the appropriate amount of schaefer votes to distribute, using base win probability data and adjusting for defensive errors and web gems. adjusted playing time percentage is described as {[(0.9*innings pitched) / 1448] + [(0.1*defensive innings for non pitchers)/1448] + [(plate appearances / 6335)]} / 2 m.e.t.b.o.t. presumes that pitching accounts for 90% of defense. the denominators in the above equation of 1448 innings pitched and 6335 plate appearances are the total innings pitched and plate appearances for the metropolitans in 2011. by crediting players with their playing time, m.e.t.b.o.t. is not forced to make the assertion that metropolitan first baseman val pascucci, who accrued 0.006 WPA in his 11 plate appearances and 7 defensive innings was a greater performer than metropolitan pitcher r.a. dickey, who accrued -1515 WPA in 208.67 innings pitched and 69 plate appearances.

Frayed Knot Oct 19 2011 12:14 PM Re: Tom Seaver Award

Dickey Capuano Gee Niese Pelfrey

Benjamin Grimm Nov 07 2011 09:40 AM Re: Tom Seaver Award

bump

Edgy MD Nov 07 2011 09:41 AM Re: Tom Seaver Award

I getty.