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2011 player awards

Vic Sage Oct 21 2011 01:43 PM

thread for player awards: you can either guess predictions or offer recommendations -- [u:2327gj8h]MVP[/u:2327gj8h] NL: R.Braun (mil) - toss up with Kemp; edge to Braun for getting his team to post-season AL: M.Cabrera (det) - with Bautista, Ellsbury and Verlander close behind; edge to the everyday player on a post-season team [u:2327gj8h]Aaron[/u:2327gj8h] NL: Kemp (LA) - practically won the triple crown; leader in almost every meaningful stat (with Braun close behind) AL: Bautista (Tor) - HRs and BBs are a potent combo; AL WAR leader, tied with Cabrera in OPS+ and Runs Created I wouldn't argue if either or both of these guys won the MVP, too. But, while in the past i rejected the criteria of "playing on a post-season team" that had crept into MVP voting over time, I have, since the creation of the "AAron" award, been willing to consider team success as an additional criteria for the MVP, and have given players on post-season teams a slight edge over the comparable AARON winners above, due to their impact on teams that made it to the post-season, as well as the additional pressure of playing for a playoff spot. The establishment of the AARON award also allowed me to consider pitchers more seriously for MVP (though the award's rules and past results always required voters to do so), since hitters have come to have their own award like pitchers do, and so there is no need to hijack the award (as i had often recommended in the past) to remedy the problem of there being no award for the best hitter in each league (That the AARON lacks the history and cache of the Cy Young does not mean the award doesn't exist). So i view Verlander's MVP candidacy as totally justifiable, too. [u:2327gj8h]Cy Young[/u:2327gj8h] NL: Kershaw (LA) AL: Verlander (Det) Both these pitchers won the pitching triple crown in their respective leagues this year; this is a no-brainer. [u:2327gj8h]Rolaids[/u:2327gj8h] NL: Kimbrel (Atl) - the SV leader also lead NL closers with WAR of 3; Hanrahan, Axford and Putz were close behind. Best setup guy was Kimbrel's teammate, Venters with a WAR of 3.7! He should get some consideration, but he won't. AL: Rivera (NY) - though Valverde had a few more SVs, Rivera led in all other categories, including ERA+, WHIP and WAR. ROY - i don't know who is eligible. Anybody?

Ceetar Oct 21 2011 02:03 PM Re: 2011 player awards Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 21 2011 02:21 PM

for rookies this should help [url]http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/sortable_rookie.jsp It'll be Kimbrel though in the NL. and Hosmer in the AL. Cy Young I agree with. Kershaw Verlander (I picked Verlander preseason, so whee..) MVP I'll get to the others.

Vic Sage Oct 21 2011 02:19 PM Re: 2011 player awards

[u:te82214v]ROY[/u:te82214v] NL: Kimbrel (atl) - this likely Rolaids winner should have the edge over teammate Freddie Freeman AL: Hellickson (TB) - Hellickson's 4.2 WAR and solid numbers should edge out pre-season fave 1bman Hosmer (KC) and slugger Mark Trumbo (LAA), and LAA closer Walden. I suppose Ivan Nova will get some support, too.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 21 2011 04:50 PM Re: 2011 player awards

Kimbrel will take the NL ROY, but I'm not so sure it shouldn't be one of the Nats-- Espinosa and Ramos both posted .330ish wOBAs, and a butt-ton of power (21 HR in 658 PAs and 15 HR in 435 PAs, respectively) from prime defensive positions they each manned pretty capably. Also, I'm not sure about the root of the difference, but Fangraphs and B-R differ widely on Hellickson's overall value this year.

MFS62 Oct 21 2011 08:18 PM Re: 2011 player awards

Speaking of rookies, Duda gets recognition from BA: http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/ma ... 12464.html Later

Ashie62 Oct 21 2011 10:27 PM Re: 2011 player awards

AL ROY TRUMBO NL KIMBREL

Vic Sage Nov 14 2011 04:16 PM Re: 2011 player awards

Vic Sage wrote: ROY NL: Kimbrel (atl) - this likely Rolaids winner should have the edge over teammate Freddie Freeman AL: Hellickson (TB) - Hellickson's 4.2 WAR and solid numbers should edge out pre-season fave 1bman Hosmer (KC) and slugger Mark Trumbo (LAA), and LAA closer Walden. I suppose Ivan Nova will get some support, too. I called it: Kimbrel and Hellickson, and it wasn't even close. http://www.baseball-reference.com/award ... 2011.shtml

Frayed Knot Nov 14 2011 04:23 PM Re: 2011 player awards

Kimbrel is unanimous, and the rest of the NL field has a distinctly NL East feel to it ... with the exception of a team or two anyway. And does anyone besides me think of the cop on the train from 'The Fugitive' who screams, "KIMBLE" upon recognizing Harrison Ford every time this guy comes into a game? PLAYER TEAM 1st Place 2nd Place 3rd Place Points Jeremy Hellickson Rays 17 5 2 102 Mark Trumbo Angels 5 11 5 63 Eric Hosmer Royals 4 4 6 38 Ivan Nova Yanx 1 5 10 30 Michael Pineda Mariners 0 3 2 11 Dustin Ackley Mariners 1 0 1 6 Desmond Jennings Rays 0 0 1 1 Jordan Walden Angels 0 0 1 1 PLAYER TEAM 1st Place 2nd Place 3rd Place Points Craig Kimbrel Braves 32 0 0 160 Freddie Freeman Braves 0 21 7 70 Vance Worley Phils 0 8 16 40 Wilson Ramos Nationals 0 1 3 6 Josh Collmenter DBacks 0 1 2 5 Danny Espinosa Nationals 0 1 0 3 Darwin Barney Cubs 0 0 2 2 Kenley Jansen Dodgers 0 0 2 2

seawolf17 Nov 14 2011 05:43 PM Re: 2011 player awards

Remember early in the season when we were talking about Turner making some RoY noise? Yeah.

Vic Sage Nov 15 2011 09:58 AM Re: 2011 player awards Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Nov 15 2011 10:24 AM

Aaron Award -- NL: Kemp (LA) - practically won the triple crown; leader in almost every meaningful stat (with Braun close behind) AL: Bautista (Tor) - HRs and BBs are a potent combo; AL WAR leader, tied with Cabrera in OPS+ and Runs Created yeah, i got that one, too: http://mlb.mlb.com/news/press_releases/ ... p&c_id=mlb

Vic Sage Nov 15 2011 10:02 AM Re: 2011 player awards Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 15 2011 10:27 AM

Congrats to David Freese, for winning both the WS MVP and the NLCS MVP (Nelson Cruz won in the ALCS)

Vic Sage Nov 15 2011 10:06 AM Re: 2011 player awards

congrats, too, to the COMEBACK PLAYERS OF THE YEAR: Jacoby Ellsbury (Bos) and Lance Berkman (Stl)

Vic Sage Nov 15 2011 10:08 AM Re: 2011 player awards

2011 GGs: (NL) Kershaw (P) Molina (C) Votto (1B) Phillips (2B) Polanco (3B) Tulowitzki (SS) Parra (LF) Kemp (CF) Ethier (RF) (AL) Buehrle (P) Wieters (C) A.Gonzalez (1B) Pedroia (2B) Beltre (3B) Aybar (SS) Gordon (LF) Ellsbury (CF) Markakis (RF)

Vic Sage Nov 15 2011 10:18 AM Re: 2011 player awards

2011 Silver Sluggers: [u:16njc4ei]NL[/u:16njc4ei] McCann (C) Fielder (1B) Phillips (2B)* A.Ramirez (3b) Tulowitzki (SS)* j.Upton (OF) Kemp (OF)* Braun (OF) Hudson (p) [u:16njc4ei]AL[/u:16njc4ei] Avila (C) A.Gonzalez (1B)* Cano (2B) Beltre (3B)* As.Cabrera (SS) Granderson (OF) Ellsbury (OF)* Bautista (OF) D.Ortiz (dh) * = also a GG winner

Vic Sage Nov 15 2011 10:26 AM Re: 2011 player awards

ROLAIDS winners = AXFORD (NL) and VALVERDE (AL) Rolaids -- NL: Kimbrel (Atl) - the SV leader also lead NL closers with WAR of 3; Hanrahan, Axford and Putz were close behind. Best setup guy was Kimbrel's teammate, Venters with a WAR of 3.7! He should get some consideration, but he won't. AL: Rivera (NY) - though Valverde had a few more SVs, Rivera led in all other categories, including ERA+, WHIP and WAR. I blew this one because i didn't realize it was based on a formula: *2 points for a win *3 points for a save *4 points for a "tough save" (reliever enters a game with the tying run already on base and gets the save) *-2 points for a loss *-2 for a blown save what do we think of using a formula, and of this formula in particular?

Vic Sage Nov 15 2011 10:27 AM Re: 2011 player awards

next up, CYs and MVPs

Edgy MD Nov 15 2011 10:52 AM Re: 2011 player awards

seawolf17 wrote: Remember early in the season when we were talking about Turner making some RoY noise? Yeah. They'd do themselves a favor if they asked for than three names on the ballot --- giving that many more players a small feather in their caps, that many more teams a reason to write a press release, and that many more fans a brief warm fuzzy, seeing their team had a guy finish eighth.

Ceetar Nov 15 2011 12:13 PM Re: 2011 player awards

Edgy DC wrote: seawolf17 wrote: Remember early in the season when we were talking about Turner making some RoY noise? Yeah. They'd do themselves a favor if they asked for than three names on the ballot --- giving that many more players a small feather in their caps, that many more teams a reason to write a press release, and that many more fans a brief warm fuzzy, seeing their team had a guy finish eighth. And also might force the voters to look into more than the popular choice. Verlander for cy Young. shocker. Unanimous.

Vic Sage Nov 15 2011 12:53 PM Re: 2011 player awards

I blew this one because i didn't realize it was based on a formula: *2 points for a win *3 points for a save *4 points for a "tough save" (reliever enters a game with the tying run already on base and gets the save) *-2 points for a loss *-2 for a blown save what do we think of using a formula, and of this formula in particular? thoughts?

Benjamin Grimm Nov 15 2011 01:04 PM Re: 2011 player awards

Everyone knows that wins are a faulty stat, but they're even more faulty for relief pitchers than for starters. (By a LOT.) I'd say start with 1 point for a save and 3 for a "tough save". I'd forget wins and losses and try to incorporate some way of measuring inherited runners stranded and baserunners allowed.

Ceetar Nov 15 2011 01:10 PM Re: 2011 player awards

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Everyone knows that wins are a faulty stat, but they're even more faulty for relief pitchers than for starters. (By a LOT.) I'd say start with 1 point for a save and 3 for a "tough save". I'd forget wins and losses and try to incorporate some way of measuring inherited runners stranded and baserunners allowed. Well yeah, in this formula, if a reliever blows a save that gives up the lead, it's entirely up to his offense whether or not he gets 2 points for a win, or loses 2 points for a loss. I'd consider differentiating Blown save and Blown lead. Hugely different if you blow the save but the game remains tied.

Edgy MD Nov 15 2011 01:11 PM Re: 2011 player awards

What do you do for the guy who enters with the tying run on base and no out in the seventh or eighth, bails his team out, and sees Mr. Bigstuff enter with a clean slate in the ninth and get the save?

Edgy MD Nov 15 2011 01:12 PM Re: 2011 player awards

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Everyone knows that wins are a faulty stat.... Oh, there are still some holdouts.

Ceetar Nov 15 2011 01:25 PM Re: 2011 player awards

Edgy DC wrote: What do you do for the guy who enters with the tying run on base and no out in the seventh or eighth, bails his team out, and sees Mr. Bigstuff enter with a clean slate in the ninth and get the save? claim he has a close mentality and make the Yankees over pay for him.

metsmarathon Nov 15 2011 01:26 PM Re: 2011 player awards

this might be a good time to spin up the 'bot... that said, since the award is called the rolaids relief award, it should perhaps be open to all relief pitchers not just closers. also, the wins is stupid. losses and blown saves less so. i was just wandering through fangraphs and noticed a nifty little stat on there. SD, or shutdowns, and its companion MD or meltdowns. a shutdown is when your reliever shuts down his opponent, and has a +6% impact on the likelihood of winning a game (+0.06 WPA), while a meltdown is the opposite - a reliever has a -6% impact on the liklihood of winning the game (-0.06 WPA). to quote those fine folks, fangraphs"]- The +/- 6% cutoff for Shutdowns and Meltdowns puts SDs and MDs on a similar scale as Saves and Holds, meaning 40 shutdowns is roughly as impressive as 40 saves. - Shutdowns and Meltdowns correlate very well with saves and blown saves; in other words, dominant relievers are going to rack up both saves and shutdowns, while bad relievers will rack up the meltdowns and blown saves. But Shutdowns and Meltdowns provide value by giving more weight to middle relievers, showing how they can affect a game just as much as a closer can. and so i propose shutdowns - meltdowns as the metric to be used. the leaders: Player SD MD SD-MD venters 47 6 41 axford 43 3 40 valverde 38 5 33 madson 35 4 31 clippard 40 10 30 rivera 37 7 30 storen 40 10 30 robertson 37 8 29 adams 37 8 29 o'flaherty 36 7 29 rodriguez 37 8 29 putz 35 7 28 cordero 34 6 28 papelbon 32 4 28 hanrahan 35 8 27 hernandez 35 8 27 perez 37 10 27 balfour 32 6 26 kimbrel 35 10 25 nunez 33 8 25

Frayed Knot Nov 15 2011 02:52 PM Re: 2011 player awards

Apparently having your first name start with a J was big for voters this year. So if Santana gets votes when the NL results are published then we'll really know something's up. PLAYER TEAM 1st Place 2nd Place 3rd Place 4th Place 5th Place Points Justin Verlander Tigers 28 0 0 0 0 140 Jered Weaver Angels 0 17 8 2 1 97 James Shields Rays 0 5 9 8 3 66 CC Sabathia Yanx 0 5 7 9 4 63 Jose Valverde Tigers 0 1 3 6 3 28 CJ Wilson Rangers 0 0 0 1 3 9 Dan Haren Angels 0 0 1 1 2 7 Mariano Rivera Yanx 0 0 0 0 4 4 Josh Beckett Red Sox 0 0 0 0 3 3 Ricky Romero Blue Jays 0 0 0 1 0 2 David Robertson Yanx 0 0 0 0 1 1

Ceetar Nov 15 2011 04:13 PM Re: 2011 player awards

David Robertson got a 5th place vote huh? good for him..

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 15 2011 08:42 PM Re: 2011 player awards

He had an unbelievable year. I wonder how his shitty brother is doing.

Frayed Knot Nov 16 2011 01:25 PM Re: 2011 player awards

MoYs --- aka: Terry gets a vote!! MGR TEAM 1st Place 2nd Place 3rd Place Points Joe Madden Rays 26 1 0 133 Jim Leyland Tigers 1 13 10 54 Ron Washington Rangers 1 7 5 31 Manny Acta Indians 0 3 7 16 Joe Girardi Yanx 0 3 5 14 Mike Scioscia Angels 0 1 1 4 MGR TEAM 1st Place 2nd Place 3rd Place Points Kirk Gibson DBacks 28 4 0 152 Ron Roenicke Brewers 3 25 2 92 Tony LaRussa Cardinals 1 2 13 24 Charlie Manuel Phillies 0 1 7 10 Fredi Gonzalez Braves 0 0 4 4 Clint Hurdle Pirates 0 0 2 2 Bruce Bochy Giants 0 0 2 2 Terry Collins Mets 0 0 1 1 Don Mattingly Dodgers 0 0 1 1

Edgy MD Nov 16 2011 04:58 PM Re: 2011 player awards

Go, Terry!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 16 2011 05:57 PM Re: 2011 player awards

Just a little more improvement, and you can aspire to Fredi Gonzalezhood!

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 16 2011 06:03 PM Re: 2011 player awards

Rubin copped to the vote for Terry. Manny Acta getting more MOY votes than anyone under Omar.

Ceetar Nov 16 2011 06:06 PM Re: 2011 player awards

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Rubin copped to the vote for Terry. Manny Acta getting more MOY votes than anyone under Omar. well, except for the 81 points for Willie in '06 of course.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 16 2011 06:08 PM Re: 2011 player awards

yeah well, if you don't count them i mean

G-Fafif Nov 17 2011 04:04 AM Re: 2011 player awards

Imagine how many votes Gonzalez would have received had he not managed a team that collapsed completely in the last month of the season. I assume the 4 points were for his players not partaking of beer and chicken during games.

metirish Nov 17 2011 12:43 PM Re: 2011 player awards

NL CY YOUNG VOTING TOTALS Pitcher Team 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Points Clayton Kershaw Dodgers 27 3 2 207 Roy Halladay Phillies 4 21 7 133 Cliff Lee Phillies 5 17 9 1 90 Ian Kennedy D-backs 1 3 6 18 3 76 Cole Hamels Phillies 2 13 17 Tim Lincecum Giants 1 5 7 Yovani Gallardo Brewers 1 3 5 Matt Cain Giants 1 1 3 John Axford Brewers 2 2 Craig Kimbrel Braves 2 2 Madison Bumgarner Giants 1 1 Ryan Vogelsong Giants 1 1 http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd ... b&c_id=mlb

sharpie Nov 17 2011 12:57 PM Re: 2011 player awards

Giants get four starters on that list. None of them total more than 7 points.

Frayed Knot Nov 17 2011 01:41 PM Re: 2011 player awards

Pitcher TEAM 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th POINTS Clayton Kershaw Dodgers 27 3 2 0 0 207 Roy Halladay Phillies 4 21 7 0 0 133 Cliff Lee Phillies 0 5 17 9 1 90 Ian Kennedy DBacks 1 3 6 18 3 76 Cold Hamels Phillies 0 0 0 2 13 17 Tim Lincecum Giants 0 0 0 1 5 7 Yovani Gallardo Brewers 0 0 0 1 3 5 Matt Cain Giants 0 0 0 1 1 3 John Axford Brewers 0 0 0 0 2 2 Madison Bumgarner Giants 0 0 0 0 1 1 Ryan Vogelsong Giants 0 0 0 0 1 1

metirish Nov 17 2011 01:43 PM Re: 2011 player awards

One day I'm going to learn how to do that nice box.

metsmarathon Nov 17 2011 06:44 PM Re: 2011 player awards

metirish wrote: One day I'm going to learn how to do that nice box. [snicker]

Ashie62 Nov 17 2011 08:02 PM Re: 2011 player awards

Ian Kennedy is the surprise to me this season.

Gwreck Nov 18 2011 09:22 AM Re: 2011 player awards

ESPN's Keith Law was the voter who left Kennedy totally off the ballot.

metirish Nov 18 2011 09:29 AM Re: 2011 player awards

metsmarathon wrote: metirish wrote: One day I'm going to learn how to do that nice box. [snicker] [nickers]

seawolf17 Nov 18 2011 09:50 AM Re: 2011 player awards

metirish wrote: metirish wrote: One day I'm going to learn how to do that nice box. [snicker] [nickers] [ickersn]

TransMonk Nov 18 2011 09:52 AM Re: 2011 player awards

[Sir Neck]

seawolf17 Nov 21 2011 12:14 PM Re: 2011 player awards

And Justin Verlander gets an MVP Award to go with his Cy, the first pitcher to win both since Eck in 1992.

Ceetar Nov 21 2011 12:23 PM Re: 2011 player awards

seawolf17 wrote: And Justin Verlander gets an MVP Award to go with his Cy, the first pitcher to win both since Eck in 1992. I don't understand why David Robertson gets to cast a vote in these things. He's got a 10th place vote for MVP as well. Twitter abuzz with "Michael Young with a first place vote?!?"

Gwreck Nov 21 2011 12:48 PM Re: 2011 player awards

Looks like 1 voter left Verlander completely off the ballot. Ellsbury, Bautista, Granderson and Cabrera all got 28 votes.

metsmarathon Nov 21 2011 01:17 PM Re: 2011 player awards

Ceetar wrote: Twitter abuzz with "Michael Young with a first place vote?!?" i have a really hard time understanding why anoyone would put michael young higher on their ballot than ian kinsler. i get that leading his team in hits and rbi is something good, but really, how could anyone look at the two of them and think young was the better or more valuable player this year? michael young got votes in every available spot. 1st through 10th. kinsler got no higher than 5th. i'm a little surprised that ellsbury didn't get it. i wonder what difference one win might've made for him.

Ceetar Nov 21 2011 01:23 PM Re: 2011 player awards

metsmarathon wrote: i'm a little surprised that ellsbury didn't get it. i wonder what difference one win might've made for him. Huge. He played well in September, so he would've been credited with saving the Red Sox from collapse. (Also see: David Wright, 2007)

Edgy MD Nov 21 2011 01:43 PM Re: 2011 player awards

Michael Young brought it from multiple positions. That's worth some'n.

metirish Nov 21 2011 01:44 PM Re: 2011 player awards

Edgy DC wrote: Michael Young brought it from multiple positions. That's worth some'n. I actually thought he was more of a bench player this year yet he played in 159 games with over 600 at bats.

Edgy MD Nov 21 2011 01:50 PM Re: 2011 player awards

I was expecting "That's what she said!"

metirish Nov 21 2011 01:51 PM Re: 2011 player awards

Edgy DC wrote: I was expecting "That's what she said!" damn, now I see it.

Frayed Knot Nov 21 2011 02:01 PM Re: 2011 player awards

The MVP votes go up to 10th place - top 5 are listed here along with the total number of votes received (out of 28 possible). Player TEAM 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th # of Votes Points Justin Verlander Tigers 13 3 3 4 1 27 280 Jacoby Ellsbury Red Sox 4 13 4 1 4 28 242 Jose Bautista Blue Jays 5 7 4 4 4 28 231 Curtis Granderson Yanx 3 4 4 8 6 28 215 Miguel Carbrera Tigers 2 0 9 5 5 28 193 Robinson Cano Yanx 0 0 2 2 3 24 112 Adrian Gonzalez Red Sox 0 0 1 1 2 25 105 Michael Young Rangers 1 1 1 1 1 23 96 Dustin Pedroia Red Sox 0 0 0 0 0 15 48 Evan Longoria Rays 0 0 0 2 0 8 27 Also on the ballot: Ian Kinsler - Rangers - (6 votes) - 25 points Alex Avila - Tigers - (6) - 13 Paul Kornerko - White Sox - (6) - 11 CC Sabathia - Yanx - (2) - 10 Adrian Beltre - Rangers - (4) - 9 Ben Zobrist - Rays - (2) - 7 Victor Martinez - Tigers -(4) - 7 James Shields - Rays - (6) - 7 Mark Teixeira - Yanx - (2) - 5 Asdrubal Cabrera - Indians - (3) - 4 Alex Gordon - Royals - (3) - 3 Josh Hamilton - Rangers - (1) - 1 David Robertson - Yanx - (1) - 1

Edgy MD Nov 21 2011 06:11 PM Re: 2011 player awards

Probably the first time since he could legally drink that A-Rod hasn't got MVP support.

metsguyinmichigan Nov 21 2011 06:16 PM Re: 2011 player awards

David Robertson????

Vic Sage Nov 22 2011 07:01 AM Re: 2011 player awards

i went with Cabrera, narrowly over Bautista, Ellsbury and Verlander, but felt Verlander's candidacy was totally legit. Vic Sage wrote: MVP AL: M.Cabrera (det) - with Bautista, Ellsbury and Verlander close behind; edge to the everyday player on a post-season team Aaron AL: Bautista (Tor) - HRs and BBs are a potent combo; AL WAR leader, tied with Cabrera in OPS+ and Runs Created I wouldn't argue if either or both of these guys won the MVP, too. But, while in the past i rejected the criteria of "playing on a post-season team" that had crept into MVP voting over time, I have, since the creation of the "Aaron" award, been willing to consider team success as an additional criteria for the MVP, and have given players on post-season teams a slight edge over the comparable AARON winners above, due to their impact on teams that made it to the post-season, as well as the additional pressure of playing for a playoff spot. The establishment of the AARON award also allowed me to consider pitchers more seriously for MVP (though the award's rules and past results always required voters to do so), since hitters have come to have their own award like pitchers do, and so there is no need to hijack the award (as i had often recommended in the past) to remedy the problem of there being no award for the best hitter in each league (That the AARON lacks the history and cache of the Cy Young does not mean the award doesn't exist). So i view Verlander's MVP candidacy as totally justifiable, too.

Gwreck Nov 22 2011 07:42 AM Re: 2011 player awards

I would've gone with Verlander. He and Bautista tied for the AL lead in Wins above Replacement and perhaps at that point, breaking the tie with the team in contention gives the edge to Verlander. Cabrera was .7 wins behind.

MFS62 Nov 22 2011 07:53 AM Re: 2011 player awards

IIRC, the Cy Young was institiuted by Ford Frick when he noticed that hitters were winning the majority of MVP awards. It was meant to be a separate award. IMO, a pitcher should win the MVP in the first year a cat wins the Westminster Kennel Club Show. Later

Ceetar Nov 22 2011 07:57 AM Re: 2011 player awards

MFS62 wrote: IIRC, the Cy Young was institiuted by Ford Frick when he noticed that hitters were winning the majority of MVP awards. It was meant to be a separate award. IMO, a pitcher should win the MVP in the first year a cat wins the Westminster Kennel Club Show. Later It is a separate award. If pitchers weren't meant to win the award, they wouldn't be eligible. they are eligible. They don't let cat's into the Westminster show, but if they did, and it outperformed the dogs, it should win. cats are more fun anyway.

Frayed Knot Nov 22 2011 07:59 AM Re: 2011 player awards

Anyone want to hazard a guess at Reyes's showing? (cuz no other NYM is getting anywhere near the list) If so then, prior to today's 2PM announcement, take a stab at: 1) Placement 2) Top 5 votes 3) Total number of points Winner, as always, receives absolutely nothing. I'll go with 8th, none, and 75

Edgy MD Nov 22 2011 08:01 AM Re: 2011 player awards

MFS62 wrote: IIRC, the Cy Young was institiuted by Ford Frick when he noticed that hitters were winning the majority of MVP awards. It was meant to be a separate award. IMO, a pitcher should win the MVP in the first year a cat wins the Westminster Kennel Club Show. Later That's actually called the "The Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show," so it's specifically about dogs. "Most Valuable Player" specifies "players," and pitchers certainly qualify as players.

seawolf17 Nov 22 2011 08:02 AM Re: 2011 player awards

Seriously, people, cats suck. It's called the "Most Valuable Player." Pitchers players? Yup. Then they count. Congrats to Justin Verlander.

Ceetar Nov 22 2011 08:53 AM Re: 2011 player awards

Anyone want to hazard a guess at Reyes's showing? (cuz no other NYM is getting anywhere near the list) If so then, prior to today's 2PM announcement, take a stab at: 1) Placement 2) Top 5 votes 3) Total number of points Winner, as always, receives absolutely nothing. I'll go with 8th, none, and 75 7th, 7, 77. (I actually created a poll at the end of the season for this ,externally: [url]http://www.ceetar.com/optimisticmetsfan/2011/09/28/poll-where-does-reyes-finish-in-mvp-race/)

metsmarathon Nov 22 2011 09:44 AM Re: 2011 player awards

8th 3 top-five votes 80 total points

G-Fafif Nov 22 2011 12:02 PM Re: 2011 player awards

Braun MVP. And Jose had a higher batting average, so Jose is MVP.

G-Fafif Nov 22 2011 12:03 PM Re: 2011 player awards

BBWAA Tweet: 1. Braun 388, 2. Kemp 332; 3. Fielder 229; 4 Upton 214; 5 Pujols 166; 6 Votto 135; 7 Brkmn 118; 8 Tulo 69; 9 Halladay 52; 10 Howard 39.

G-Fafif Nov 22 2011 12:03 PM Re: 2011 player awards

First-place votes: Braun 20, Kemp 10, Fielder 1, Upton 1. Only four listed on all ballots.

Ceetar Nov 22 2011 12:11 PM Re: 2011 player awards

And the important info, Reyes 11th with 31 (behind Howard..hah..) and Beltran grabbed an 8th placer, for 3 points.

G-Fafif Nov 22 2011 12:13 PM Re: 2011 player awards

Jose places as high as fifth on one ballot.

G-Fafif Nov 22 2011 12:16 PM Re: 2011 player awards

Best Met finish since Wright and Delgado placed in the Top 10 in 2008.

Edgy MD Nov 22 2011 12:22 PM Re: 2011 player awards

Great news for the Mets.

Frayed Knot Nov 22 2011 01:04 PM Re: 2011 player awards

So the answer to the Reyes question is: 11th 1, and 31 Surprising that Kemp didn't get it, but I guess it shows that the notion of keeping to players from winning teams is alive and well. So much for that other 'truism' about teammates splitting votes though as it didn't seem to hurt either Braun or Prince. Player TEAM 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th # of Votes Points Ryan Braun Brewers 20 12 0 0 0 32 388 Matt Kemp Dodgers 10 16 6 0 0 32 332 Prince Fielder Brewers 1 4 11 9 1 32 229 Justin Upton DBacks 1 0 8 11 6 32 214 Albert Pujols Cardinals 0 0 1 6 11 30 166 Koey Votto Reds 0 0 4 3 2 28 135 Lance Berkman Cardinals 0 0 1 2 6 28 118 Troy Tulowitski Rockies 0 0 0 0 0 24 69 Roy Halladay Phillies 0 0 1 0 1 14 52 Ryan Howard Phillies 0 0 0 1 3 10 27 Jose Reyes Mets 0 0 0 0 1 12 31 Also: Clayton Kershaw, Dodgers -- 11 ballots -- 29 points Shane Victorino, Phillies -- 9 -- 18 Ian Kennedy, DBacks -- 4 -- 16 Cliff Lee, Phillies -- 4 -- 12 Hunter Pence, Astros/Phillies -- 3 -- 10 Pablo Sandoval, Giants -- 2 -- 7 John Axford, Brewers -- 3 -- 7 Michael Morse, Nationals -- 2 -- 5 Catlos Beltran, Mets/Giants -- 1 -- 3 Miguel Montero, DBacks -- 1 -- 2 Yadier Molino, Cardinals -- 2 -- 2 Starlin Castro, Cubs -- 1 -- 1 Craig Kimbrel, Braves -- 1 -- 1 Carlos Ruiz, Phillies -- 1 -- 1 Mike Stanton, Marlins -- 1 -- 1

Vic Sage Nov 22 2011 09:04 PM Re: 2011 player awards

MVP NL: R.Braun (mil) - toss up with Kemp; edge to Braun for getting his team to post-season nailed it.