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NL East winter moves 2011-12

Frayed Knot
Oct 31 2011 11:37 AM

Obviously this thread is intended for non-NYM changes as I would hope anything the home team does is important enough to warrant its own thread.


Anyway, to kick things off we have ...

Derek Lowe from Atlanta to the Indians for a minor lg pitcher
Braves are reportedly paying about $10 of the $15 mil owed him for 2012 and getting back 23 y/o LH reliever Chris Jones last seen toiling in high-A ball in the Cleveland system.

IOW, this is mostly a salary dump as Atlanta has enough younger/better/cheaper alternatives around while the Indians get a veteran pitcher for next year at about $5mil plus the cost of what looks like a minor cog.

Frayed Knot
Nov 05 2011 06:28 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

- CM Wang re-ups with the Nat'ls
After paying him for a year and a half to sit on the DL, he finally started pitching around mid-season (debuting v the Mets). He started slowly but was doing OK by the end of the year.

- and Jim Thome is all set to become a re-Phillie
Seems odd that a guy who'll rarely if ever see the field signs on with an NL team but, hey, it's working for Giambi who just had his option picked up with the Rox

smg58
Nov 05 2011 06:59 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

I'm guessing Thome wants a shot at a ring. Giambi must like the school system.

Benjamin Grimm
Nov 05 2011 07:00 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Thome would, I assume, see a lot of time at first base until Ryan Howard is ready.

Edgy MD
Nov 05 2011 10:02 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Ryan Howard stole the job from Thome when he was hurt back in 2005. Now he gets to try to return the favor.

It's like Charles Manson stealing "Helter Skelter" from the Beatles.

Gwreck
Nov 05 2011 02:43 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Yeah, but it was Bono who stole it back, not the Beatles.

Edgy MD
Nov 05 2011 07:19 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

You think Thome is going to pull this off without Bono? Fat chance.

smg58
Nov 06 2011 06:57 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

In other news, the Phillies just signed Bono.

Ceetar
Nov 08 2011 04:15 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Apparently the Phillies kept Madsen to the tune of 4/44 with a 5th year option.

metirish
Nov 08 2011 05:21 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Ceetar wrote:
Apparently the Phillies kept Madsen to the tune of 4/44 with a 5th year option.



Sounds just like the type of bad investment Bono would make.

Ceetar
Nov 08 2011 05:25 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

metirish wrote:
Ceetar wrote:
Apparently the Phillies kept Madsen to the tune of 4/44 with a 5th year option.



Sounds just like the type of bad investment Bono would make.


I mean, the Phillies were going to just give Howard another extension, but since he got hurt they figured they'd wait until next year.

Ashie62
Nov 08 2011 06:02 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

metirish wrote:
Ceetar wrote:
Apparently the Phillies kept Madsen to the tune of 4/44 with a 5th year option.



Sounds just like the type of bad investment Bono would make.


Or the Edge-y

Edgy MD
Nov 11 2011 12:21 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Sources have Papelbon signing with Phillie, pending the physical.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Nov 11 2011 12:23 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Boy are they headed for disaster.

metirish
Nov 11 2011 12:44 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Follow up

"@JSalisburyCSN: Sources say Papelbon deal is four years and approaches $50 million, pending physical #phillies"

seawolf17
Nov 11 2011 12:46 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

That's almost $100 million on two relievers, plus they have Howard locked up for a bajillion dollars. Is the Philadelphia Mint a minority owner?

TransMonk
Nov 11 2011 12:52 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

I thought the Madsen deal was a non-deal?

HahnSolo
Nov 11 2011 12:53 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

[url]http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-brown_hardball_scott_boras_madson_phillies_111011

According to this, and I'm not sure who you want to believe, the Madson thing was never official.

Edgy MD
Nov 11 2011 01:01 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Ryan's mad, son.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Nov 11 2011 01:15 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

I'd look inro a pissed-off Madson if I'm the Mets.

Tracky suggests Nathan, Broxton and Lidge to be candidates in the Isringhausen vein.

bmfc1
Nov 11 2011 01:19 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Papelbon to the MFPs.

Resign Omir!

smg58
Nov 11 2011 03:16 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

I'm curious to know whether the Madson deal was as close as it was reported to be a couple of days ago. I can't imagine Madson's agent would have paused if 4 and 44 were on the table.

When the Phillies fall, they will fall hard. And it won't happen later than 2013.

Not sure if it's been reported elsewhere, but Pridie and Evans have been taken off the 40 and both are minor-league free agents.

smg58
Nov 20 2011 06:12 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

The Phillies get Ty Wigginton from the Rockies for a six-pack of Coors Light and a bag of pretzels to be named later. It's bad enough to be sent off along with half your salary and not knowing who, if even anybody, is going the other way, but to the Phillies? Poor Ty.

Ceetar
Nov 20 2011 06:21 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

smg58 wrote:
The Phillies get Ty Wigginton from the Rockies for a six-pack of Coors Light and a bag of pretzels to be named later. It's bad enough to be sent off along with half your salary and not knowing who, if even anybody, is going the other way, but to the Phillies? Poor Ty.


He'll see playing time. Howard's out to start and 2B/3B are injury/aging guys.

Edgy MD
Nov 20 2011 07:30 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Last I heard, they don't have a shortstop.

Yikes.

Ceetar
Nov 20 2011 07:42 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Edgy DC wrote:
Last I heard, they don't have a shortstop.

Yikes.


haha, Wiggy at Short?

Tejada for Worley?

Ashie62
Nov 20 2011 08:04 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Edgy DC wrote:
Last I heard, they don't have a shortstop.

Yikes.


Neither do the Mets

Frayed Knot
Nov 20 2011 09:29 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Harper in the NYDN had the Braves talking trade with the Yanx - dangling the likes of IF Eduardo Nunez and maybe Swisher for the very talented but oft-injured and now arb-eligible Jair Jurrgens.
Nunez can hit a bit and is only 24 but was an error machine at both SS & 3B filling in for the two old men in the Bronx this past summer. Braves seem to think he'll get more consistent with steady playing time but if I'm Cashen none of those types being mentioned keeps me from pulling the trigger on that deal. Jurrgens is still just 25 (26 by opening day).

Ceetar
Nov 20 2011 09:32 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Frayed Knot wrote:
Harper in the NYDN had the Braves talking trade with the Yanx - dangling the likes of IF Eduardo Nunez and maybe Swisher for the very talented but oft-injured and now arb-eligible Jair Jurrgens.
Nunez can hit a bit and is only 24 but was an error machine at both SS & 3B filling in for the two old men in the Bronx this past summer. Braves seem to think he'll get more consistent with steady playing time but if I'm Cashen none of those types being mentioned keeps me from pulling the trigger on that deal. Jurrgens is still just 25 (26 by opening day).


yeah, the Braves better get more than backup infielder if they do that. Maybe if it happens Jurrgens can be next years Vazquez.

Frayed Knot
Nov 21 2011 06:18 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

I think the idea is that the Braves see Nunez as a starting SS, one with similar pop to the soon-to-be-departed Alex Gonzalez but a decade younger and hopefully with the ability to top AG's sub-.300 OBA
I'd want something better than that back for Jurrgens too but these are just rumors and, even if accurate, he'd most likely be a piece of the deal rather than the whole thing.
Atlanta needs offense.

Benjamin Grimm
Nov 21 2011 06:33 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Jurrgens is represented by Scott Boras, and the Braves may be thinking that he'll be gone after two years, so in this scenario they'd be trading two years of Jurrgens for six or more years of Nunez.

smg58
Nov 22 2011 07:30 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

The Marlins trade John Baker (backup catcher) to the Padres for pitcher Wade LeBlanc.

Edgy MD
Nov 28 2011 05:53 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Tim Hudson of the Braves undergoes surgery for a herniated disc.

Ceetar
Dec 01 2011 09:05 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Jayson Stark (salt grains here..) reporting Heath Bell to the Marlins pending physical for 3/27.

I like. Let the Marlins blow their cash on 60ip guys instead of NL batting champs or other such things that make them way better.

metirish
Dec 02 2011 11:11 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Ceetar wrote:
Jayson Stark (salt grains here..) reporting Heath Bell to the Marlins pending physical for 3/27.

I like. Let the Marlins blow their cash on 60ip guys instead of NL batting champs or other such things that make them way better.



(AP) MIAMI - All-Star closer Heath Bell has agreed to a $27 million, three-year contract with the Miami Marlins, sources have confirmed to CBSSports.com.
The agreement, which is subject to a physical, is the first free-agent deal for the Marlins since they began courtships last month with several top players. The deal was first reported by ESPN.

Bell had more than 40 saves each of the past three seasons for the San Diego Padres. This year he had 43 in 48 chances with a 2.44 ERA.




read elsewhere about a vesting option on a fourth year....

metsmarathon
Dec 02 2011 11:25 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

wow. that's not a wholly unreasonable contract for a closer.

Ceetar
Dec 02 2011 11:28 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

metsmarathon wrote:
wow. that's not a wholly unreasonable contract for a closer.


And Closers sell tickets to a new stadium right? everyone buys tickets for the guy that will pitch one inning less than half the time right?

attgig
Dec 02 2011 11:46 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

damn. i picked the wrong closer for the marlins in the FA prediction contest.

but yeah, heath bell and his sliding and antics could help sell some tickets.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Dec 02 2011 11:56 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

F him.

Benjamin Grimm
Dec 02 2011 11:58 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

The Marlins won the World Series in 2003 and still couldn't sell tickets. I don't know why they're so sure that the new stadium is going to be that much of a draw, especially once the novelty wears off.

Ceetar
Dec 02 2011 12:01 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Benjamin Grimm wrote:
The Marlins won the World Series in 2003 and still couldn't sell tickets. I don't know why they're so sure that the new stadium is going to be that much of a draw, especially once the novelty wears off.


the location of it's much better supposedly.

Edgy MD
Dec 02 2011 12:04 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

I'm just surprised and delighted to see ceets suddenly pooping on the notion of the importance of a big shot closer.

Ceetar
Dec 02 2011 12:06 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Edgy DC wrote:
I'm just surprised and delighted to see ceets suddenly pooping on the notion of the importance of a big shot closer.


Nothing's changed in my evaluation.

And a year ago I was operating under the assumption the payroll would be 120-130, which would basically fit K-Rod's option on top of what we're gonna end up having now.

Frayed Knot
Dec 02 2011 12:09 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

the location of it's much better supposedly.



Also the roof and hence lack of rainouts.

Not that I think south Florida is ever going to be the greatest of sports locations for any sport -- but there was one year a few seasons back where somewhere around 1/4 of Marlins' home games were either: rained-out, had the start rain-delayed, or had a game rain-interrupted while in progress.
Games are long enough in this sport w/o having those things thrown at you and even the most die-hard fans had to find it tough to commit to heading for the stadium where there's a decent chance the game either won't happen or will still be happening as you approach midnight.

So, yeah, the novelty of the stadium itself will wear off but I figure it's still going to be a positive for them in the long run.

Edgy MD
Dec 02 2011 12:14 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Ceetar wrote:
Edgy DC wrote:
I'm just surprised and delighted to see ceets suddenly pooping on the notion of the importance of a big shot closer.


Nothing's changed in my evaluation.

And a year ago I was operating under the assumption the payroll would be 120-130, which would basically fit K-Rod's option on top of what we're gonna end up having now.

Oh, poop.

Ceetar
Dec 02 2011 12:19 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Edgy DC wrote:
Edgy DC wrote:
I'm just surprised and delighted to see ceets suddenly pooping on the notion of the importance of a big shot closer.


Nothing's changed in my evaluation.

And a year ago I was operating under the assumption the payroll would be 120-130, which would basically fit K-Rod's option on top of what we're gonna end up having now.

Oh, poop.


btw, Sandy says he thinks they would've finished above .500 if they'd kept him.

Edgy MD
Dec 02 2011 12:30 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Maybe. They would have done even better if they kept Beltran.

Ceetar
Dec 02 2011 12:32 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Edgy DC wrote:
Maybe. They would have done even better if they kept Beltran.


They were only two games behind the Wild Card winners when they traded Beltran. You just never know.

Edgy MD
Dec 02 2011 01:04 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

No, I certainly don't.

Frayed Knot
Dec 05 2011 06:55 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Laynce (learn to spell will ya) Nix - 350 ABs w/the Nats last season - to the Phils for two years pending a physical and all that jazz.

Edgy MD
Dec 05 2011 09:17 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Every time I think about Laynce Nix, I want to stick around and want to get my kicks.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Dec 12 2011 11:07 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Phils trade arb-eligible reserve Ben Francisco to the Jays for a minor league tomato can.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Dec 13 2011 08:46 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Phils sign Dontrelle Willis.

yeah, that's whachu talkinbout

Edgy MD
Dec 13 2011 09:22 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

David Wright's eyes just lit up. He's always hit Willis, hasn't he?

Ceetar
Dec 13 2011 09:25 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Edgy DC wrote:
David Wright's eyes just lit up. He's always hit Willis, hasn't he?


does he own a bat? he does? then yes, he hits Willis.

metirish
Dec 13 2011 09:28 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Edgy DC wrote:
David Wright's eyes just lit up. He's always hit Willis, hasn't he?




Will Willis see the rotation?

numbers


Nice Numbers

Ceetar
Dec 13 2011 09:34 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

metirish wrote:
Edgy DC wrote:
David Wright's eyes just lit up. He's always hit Willis, hasn't he?




Will Willis see the rotation?

numbers


Nice Numbers


be shocked if he does. Although he did have a 'bounceback' year last year with the reds, almost got his WHIP down to Oliver Perez ranges.

The worst part about that bat_vs_pitcher list is that b-r still considers Jose Reyes a 'current Met'.

Nymr83
Dec 13 2011 10:06 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Best career OPS vs. Willis (minimum 20 plate appearences)? Moises Alou!

Edgy MD
Dec 13 2011 10:48 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Willis is kind of a certain breed o' pitcher --- I count Oil Can Boyd and José Lima among them --- that experience a period of success early in their careers, and develop a public persona as a successful pitcher who brings a level of panache to his game. When continuing that success proves elusive, these guys enter these long, slow, pretty declines, with brief puffs of the old goods --- but they have the dignity to fail with no less panache than they succeeded with.

When folks, say, "Hey, you know, maybe you should cut that crap out --- show a little humility, and awareness that you're not doing so well, for God's sake," they seem to resond with, "You think this just about pimping out my success? This is ME, babies!" And they continue to wear their sox just so, cock their brim just slightly that way, pause mid-motion in their leg kick for just that long, even as they slide from the National League to the American League to the International League to the Mexican League to the Domincan Winter League to the Northern League to the Atlantic League. They know, no matter what uniform is on their backs, that the minute they stop looking and playing the part of a star is the minute they stop being a star.

I get the idea that the Japan League has a bunch of these guys. Guys who get released at age 39 from their fourth team with a 6.90 ERA, and their first statement to the press is something along the lines of, "I disagreed with their decision. As disappointing as the results may seem, I am still the Raven, and had they paid attention to my last few starts, I was just coming fully in contact with my Mystical Raven Power Spirit for the first time in years. I have spoken to my agent and he has advised me to climb Mt. Fuji, meditate, harness the mystic bird, and await further instructions. Truly another team will want the Raven to wear their uniform soon, but I understand that they may fear unleashing all this power immediately."

seawolf17
Dec 13 2011 11:07 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Willis had a 2.63 ERA in 13 starts (70 innings) in AAA last year, and he's only 30 in January. I'm not saying he hasn't had issues, but he's not exactly a lost cause.

Frayed Knot
Dec 17 2011 05:43 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Rollins re-ups with the Phils
3 years plus a vest

Benjamin Grimm
Dec 17 2011 05:51 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

They should have also thrown in a pair of pants.

Frayed Knot
Dec 17 2011 05:56 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Except that this vest could be worth $11mil so I'd live with the embarrassment of going pants-less at the press conference.
Contract is for 11x3 plus the same 11 for the vest which is described as "easily attainable".

JR just turned 33.
His last three OPS+ were 87, 85 & 101

Fman99
Dec 17 2011 06:59 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Edgy DC wrote:
Willis is kind of a certain breed o' pitcher --- I count Oil Can Boyd and José Lima among them --- that experience a period of success early in their careers, and develop a public persona as a successful pitcher who brings a level of panache to his game. When continuing that success proves elusive, these guys enter these long, slow, pretty declines, with brief puffs of the old goods --- but they have the dignity to fail with no less panache than they succeeded with.


I'm still a big fan of Mrs. Lima and her oil cans.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Dec 17 2011 09:42 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Frayed Knot wrote:
Except that this vest could be worth $11mil so I'd live with the embarrassment of going pants-less at the press conference.
Contract is for 11x3 plus the same 11 for the vest which is described as "easily attainable".

JR just turned 33.
His last three OPS+ were 87, 85 & 101


Hamels still hasn't signed yet, no?

Chip in arb raises for Pence (6.9M last year) and Kendrick (2.45M last year), and they're around $150-155M before inking Hamels-- also due a raise (from 7.1M), and in his last arb year-- and signing the rest of the bench/pen (7 spots).

Ashie62
Dec 18 2011 12:23 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

There are some decent ballplayers (Willingham) going for reasonable money yet not much doin in Metland.

Are we a AAA team in Ottawa?

Edgy MD
Dec 18 2011 03:45 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

why is it always Ottawa when that crack is made?

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Dec 19 2011 01:44 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Kablammeron signs with the Gnats.

Frayed Knot
Dec 19 2011 02:57 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

He turns 39 in a few weeks, the Natinals will be Cammy's 9th ML team (assuming he makes the cut - no guarantee).

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Dec 22 2011 02:16 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Gnats get Gio Gonzalez for Peacock, Cole, Norris, Milone /tossing off names as though I know them

Twitter says Nats got ripped

Edgy MD
Dec 22 2011 02:19 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Peacock good. This I know.

(Checking the numbers... well, he was damn good last year anyhow.)

DocTee
Dec 22 2011 02:30 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Nats also inked Mark DeRosa to strengthen their bench.

Frayed Knot
Dec 22 2011 02:41 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote:
Gnats get Gio Gonzalez for Peacock, Cole, Norris, Milone /tossing off names as though I know them

Twitter says Nats got ripped


They certainly didn't get a #2-ish pitcher cheaply from what I can tell.
Assuming this is the correct Cole (and I don't see another one in their system) he's as highly rated as Peacock even if not quite as ready.
On the other hand, the Nats look to have a very decent rotation next season plus a good pen.
Oakland, I guess, is reloading for 2013 and beyond.


From John Sickels (who just did his Washington evaluation the other day)

#3 (ranking among Wash prospects) A.J. Cole, RHP, Grade B+.
I really believe in his upside. Needs to build stamina and refine his changeup, but if it comes together he could be a Top 20 pitching prospect next year, perhaps more.

#4 Brad Peacock, RHP, Grade B: Borderline B+.
Still has some command issues, but his ERAs finally caught up with his components and his overall potential in 2011. Will be ready before Cole but his upside is not quite as high. Future 2/3 starter if all works out.

#6 Derek Norris, C, Grade B:
Loads of power, walks, and scouting reports on his defense are getting more positive each year. Ranking may seem high for such a low batting average, but I see him as a Mike Napoli/Mickey Tettleton type who can be productive even with a low average.

#9 Tom Milone, LHP, Grade B-:
At some point, the radar guns stop mattering. The guy can simply pitch. He has little margin for error, but he will probably have a better career than hundreds of guys who throw 10 MPH harder.

smg58
Dec 22 2011 04:15 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Milone is the key to this deal. Scouts don't like his velocity, but he's done nothing but produce in the minors and was decent in five starts for Washington. If he's a legit starter for Oakland this year, then they will have already recouped most of the loss. Otherwise, Norris has a K rate that's awful and getting worse; he's the kind of prospect I'd happily sell. Peacock and Cole have live arms, but a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Ashie62
Dec 22 2011 04:35 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

The Nationals got the best player in the deal.

G-Fafif
Dec 22 2011 04:58 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

I'm saddened, from an Fman perspective, that a pitcher named Peacock will no longer be in the Mets' division.

Frayed Knot
Dec 22 2011 05:17 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

smg58 wrote:
Milone is the key to this deal. Scouts don't like his velocity, but he's done nothing but produce in the minors and was decent in five starts for Washington. If he's a legit starter for Oakland this year, then they will have already recouped most of the loss. Otherwise, Norris has a K rate that's awful and getting worse; he's the kind of prospect I'd happily sell. Peacock and Cole have live arms, but a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.


Given Peacock & Cole's higher perceived ceilings and lower ages I'd think those two are more key for Oakland, especially so since this deal isn't about this year for them and, even if it were, Milone's 26 big league innings pitched aren't much more than Peacock's 12 so one is probably about as ready as the other. Also catchers with decent OBA + power don't come along every day; I'd live with the high Ks if I could get those.

Of course any or all of those guys could still flat-line, but getting a set of four like that builds in some nice insurance for the A's.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Dec 22 2011 05:52 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Peacock strutted against us for 5 shutout innings last September, and some fun movement on his offspeed stuff, IIRC.

[OE: Said offspeed stuff was a knuckle-curve, according to this John Sickels scouting report here.]

Fman99
Dec 22 2011 06:27 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

G-Fafif wrote:
I'm saddened, from an Fman perspective, that a pitcher named Peacock will no longer be in the Mets' division.


Well then, thank goodness for R.A. Dickey.

Edgy MD
Dec 22 2011 08:10 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

I'm not sure I agree that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

smg58
Dec 23 2011 12:54 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Edgy DC wrote:
I'm not sure I agree that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.


Oh come on, that GEICO commercial didn't convince you?

Fman99
Dec 23 2011 07:46 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Edgy DC wrote:
I'm not sure I agree that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.


You know what's better than two in the bush?

(One in the bush and one in the shitpipe.)

Ceetar
Dec 23 2011 08:05 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

smg58 wrote:
Edgy DC wrote:
I'm not sure I agree that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.


Oh come on, that GEICO commercial didn't convince you?


Never believe anything James Bond says.

Vic Sage
Dec 23 2011 09:12 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

fman, you fkill me.

metirish
Jan 04 2012 05:41 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Marlins get Zambrano for Volstad various tweets are saying.

TransMonk
Jan 04 2012 06:46 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Are the Marlins really getting better?

Fman99
Jan 04 2012 07:00 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

TransMonk wrote:
Are the Marlins really getting better?


Well, they're getting angrier, anyway. The last Latino man to be as mad as him was yelling at Lucy for showing up at the nightclub.

smg58
Jan 04 2012 07:11 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

It's close to being payroll-neutral with the cash the Cubs are throwing in, which would be a huge win for the Marlins if Z can actually behave himself.

Frayed Knot
Jan 04 2012 07:14 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

The deal is at least being discussed:

FOX Sports' Ken Rosenthal reported the Cubs and Marlins were close to completing a trade which would send Zambrano to Miami. Rosenthal's sources said the Cubs would pay between $15-$16 million of the $18 million that Zambrano is owed next year.

CBS Sports' Jon Heyman also reported the Marlins were close to acquiring Zambrano and that Chris Volstad could go to the Cubs in exchange.





Between Zambrano and Volstad it's hard to tell which pitcher is more erratic (at least while on the mound) so it's tough to know who (if anyone) gets better here.
Volstad was a 1st round pick (16th overall) 6 years ago but has only rarely harnassed his talent and his best ML season to date remains his first partial one as a 21 y/o back in 2008.

Tell you what though - I'd pay to see a Zambrano/Ozzie argument even if I wouldn't understand a word of it.

metsmarathon
Jan 04 2012 10:16 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Fman99 wrote:
Well, they're getting angrier, anyway. The last Latino man to be as mad as him was yelling at Lucy for showing up at the nightclub.


fman owns the early 2012 BOC competition.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jan 05 2012 12:16 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Two years of cost-controlled Volstad-plus-$3 million might be worth it just for his hitting-- toss in 125-150 innings of at-least-league-average-ish pitching (which seems probable) and he's a steal.

Edgy MD
Jan 05 2012 04:42 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Plus he's got Guillen's temper with a younger man's strength and testosterone. Good times.

Gar the Batting Stance Guy says he looks forward to Zambrano taking a bat to one of those giant aquariua behind home plate.

Frayed Knot
Jan 05 2012 07:02 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Excerpts from BP:

Over the past two seasons, Zambrano accrued 2.4 WARP, much of it due to his performance at the plate. Chris Volstad was worth 2.2.
That doesn’t mean the two are equally talented; for one thing, Zambrano put together that total in about 65 fewer innings (albeit because he was so often unable or unwilling to pitch). But even if Volstad isn’t the pitcher Zambrano was and perhaps could be again, he’s five years younger, under team control through 2014, and much less likely to punch someone in the face before then.

Edgy MD
Jan 05 2012 07:07 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

I'd like to see the data on that in a graph.

attgig
Jan 05 2012 07:13 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

seems like a win win.

Marlins possibly getting a front line starter slotted in at #5 if all goes well for 3 mil and their old number 5.
Cubs getting a headache out of their clubhouse and someone who'll slot in at #5 for a couple years at a decent salary.

Ceetar
Jan 05 2012 08:47 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

MORE new hitters for the Marlins?

@joecapMARLINS: Elephants from Ringling Bros will take batting practice Thu at new Marlins ballpark

Edgy MD
Jan 05 2012 09:01 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12




PETA must hate this team.

Nymr83
Jan 06 2012 10:11 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Fuck PETA, who are they to say that hitting a ball off a tee with a bat isn't this elephant's dream come true?

seawolf17
Jan 06 2012 10:18 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

And for all we know, the elephant's already a better hitter than Jason Bay.

Edgy MD
Jan 06 2012 10:22 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Nymr83 wrote:
Fuck PETA, who are they to say that hitting a ball off a tee with a bat isn't this elephant's dream come true?

Ouch. Harsh negotiator.

Fman99
Jan 06 2012 10:26 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Nymr83 wrote:
Fuck PETA


Tried that once. The key is to fill it up with sprouts and maybe some hummus.

Wait, what?

Ceetar
Jan 06 2012 11:33 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Fman99 wrote:
Nymr83 wrote:
Fuck PETA


Tried that once. The key is to fill it up with sprouts and maybe some hummus.

Wait, what?


Wasn't that a banned Super Bowl commercial?

Edgy MD
Jan 13 2012 09:54 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Jack Wilson, Atlanta Brave.

Frayed Knot
Jan 15 2012 09:57 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Edgy DC wrote:
Jack Wilson, Atlanta Brave.


I guess if you combine Betancourt & Wilson they've got one decent SS in there somewhere.



Meanwhile, the Nats take recently acquired Gio Gonzalez - already under club control for the next four years - and ink him to a 5-year extension with options thru 2017 & 2018, avoiding all the arb years that would have started next season plus the first year or three of FA-gency.

Edgy MD
Jan 16 2012 07:06 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

I was thinking the Braves were going with Pastor Nicky as their shortstop.

MFS62
Jan 16 2012 08:24 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Edgy DC wrote:
I was thinking the Braves were going with Pastor Nicky as their shortstop.

I think he dropped out of the running to throw his support behind Rick Santorum.

Later

Edgy MD
Jan 26 2012 06:42 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Phillies ship former Mets scrubbie subbie Wilson Valdez to Cincy for relief help.

It won't be much longer that Valdez has any trade value at all, so I guess it's a good time to move him, but I'm glad to see any depth taken away from the Phils' infield.

Ceetar
Jan 26 2012 06:52 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Edgy DC wrote:
Phillies ship former Mets scrubbie subbie Wilson Valdez to Cincy for relief help.

It won't be much longer that Valdez has any trade value at all, so I guess it's a good time to move him, but I'm glad to see any depth taken away from the Phils' infield.


seems odd given the health issues with Utley and Rollins.

Edgy MD
Jan 26 2012 07:00 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

And Howard and Polanco, also.

Unless you believe Chief Wiggum can still fake it in the middle of the diamond, the new backup at short and second is Michael Martinez, who hit .196 last year as a 28-year-old rookie.

Ceetar
Jan 26 2012 07:08 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Edgy DC wrote:
And Howard and Polanco, also.

Unless you believe Chief Wiggum can still fake it in the middle of the diamond, the new backup at short and second is Michael Martinez, who hit .196 last year as a 28-year-old rookie.


I forgot about Wiggum.

seawolf17
Jan 26 2012 10:53 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Brad Lidge to the Nats for one year, $1M plus incentives.

FUCK YOU WILPONS FOR RUNNING OUT OF GODDAMN MONEY.

Ceetar
Jan 26 2012 11:34 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

seawolf17 wrote:
Brad Lidge to the Nats for one year, $1M plus incentives.

FUCK YOU WILPONS FOR RUNNING OUT OF GODDAMN MONEY.


Something about Lidge has always rubbed me the wrong way. Don't trust him. also, his injury history.

Benjamin Grimm
Jan 26 2012 11:38 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

I wouldn't like him either if he was always rubbing me.

Ceetar
Jan 26 2012 11:40 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Benjamin Grimm wrote:
I wouldn't like him either if he was always rubbing me.


Think about how the baseballs feel.

Frayed Knot
Jan 26 2012 12:39 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Lidge on the Nats may be nothing more than their 7th inning guy with Clippard & Storen backing him up.

Edgy MD
Jan 27 2012 12:53 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Phillies, terrified that the Mets were sniffing around Juan Pierre's door, beat them to the punch and sign him to a minor league deal first.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jan 27 2012 02:06 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Yes, hindsight is 20/20, yadda yadda yadda. But considering how many guys were out there, Sandy really might've been best served waiting until the after-Christmas sales, no?

Edgy MD
Jan 27 2012 02:19 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Sometimes. It's not like he hasn't let the market come to him in other regards.

Frayed Knot
Jan 31 2012 07:30 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

"I think [Opening Day is] more than a reach ... If [Ryan Howard] is back by sometime in May, I'll be happy." -- Ruben Amaro Jr.

Ceetar
Jan 31 2012 07:32 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Frayed Knot wrote:
"I think [Opening Day is] more than a reach ... If [Ryan Howard] is back by sometime in May, I'll be happy." -- Ruben Amaro Jr.


Sounds like what Omar was saying about Beltran in 2010.

TransMonk
Jan 31 2012 08:00 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Or what is said about Johan every year.

bmfc1
Feb 02 2012 11:42 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Edwin Jackson to the Nationals. And the Nationals get even stronger.

Edgy MD
Feb 02 2012 11:46 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Eh, Cardinals get weaker.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Feb 02 2012 11:51 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

The odds of a Johnson-BobbyV All-Star game grow shorter.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Feb 02 2012 12:35 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Eh. The way I see it 2012 will be bitterly disappointing to 2 NL East teams, we just don't know which yet.

Lannan who agreed to a $5 mills 1 yr deal today is being "aggressively shopped" in the meantime. Now he's no prize but we could do worse than the depth he could provide, plus he'd fulfill the Mets' obligation to give every player from the Metro area a shot before his career ends.

Ceetar
Feb 02 2012 12:39 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

pretty sure it's going to be disappointing to 4 of them.

attgig
Feb 02 2012 12:47 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote:
Eh. The way I see it 2012 will be bitterly disappointing to 2 NL East teams, we just don't know which yet.

Lannan who agreed to a $5 mills 1 yr deal today is being "aggressively shopped" in the meantime. Now he's no prize but we could do worse than the depth he could provide, plus he'd fulfill the Mets' obligation to give every player from the Metro area a shot before his career ends.


i think he's too expensive for our payroll.

attgig
Feb 02 2012 12:48 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Ceetar wrote:
pretty sure it's going to be disappointing to 4 of them.


mmmm, probably 3. wildcard is probably good enough for most teams, and wc is prolly coming out of the east.


but yeah...
of all the years that the Marlins picked to make a splash in the headlines and get hype for their team, the Nationals seem to be going out and trying to steal the headlines away.

Ceetar
Feb 02 2012 01:33 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

attgig wrote:
Ceetar wrote:
pretty sure it's going to be disappointing to 4 of them.


mmmm, probably 3. wildcard is probably good enough for most teams, and wc is prolly coming out of the east.


but yeah...
of all the years that the Marlins picked to make a splash in the headlines and get hype for their team, the Nationals seem to be going out and trying to steal the headlines away.


I'd be surprised if the Nationals (or the Marlins) made a serious playoff run.

Edgy MD
Feb 02 2012 01:40 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Do we have the money on the Jackson deal yet? Not much of a better bet to me than, say Mike Pelfrey. But he's coming off the better year, so.

TransMonk
Feb 02 2012 01:42 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

1 year between $8M and $12M according to Heyman.

Edgy MD
Feb 02 2012 02:00 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Well, they have Davey Johnson, who is typically awesome in his first year, so it would be perilous to underestimate them, but make mine Mets.

attgig
Feb 02 2012 03:22 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Ceetar wrote:
Ceetar wrote:
pretty sure it's going to be disappointing to 4 of them.


mmmm, probably 3. wildcard is probably good enough for most teams, and wc is prolly coming out of the east.


but yeah...
of all the years that the Marlins picked to make a splash in the headlines and get hype for their team, the Nationals seem to be going out and trying to steal the headlines away.


I'd be surprised if the Nationals (or the Marlins) made a serious playoff run.


I think the nationals could have a real shot with their rotation. if they upgrade laroche and a CF (or by calling up bryce and he's ready), I think they really could challenge for a wildcard spot. of course, if selig gets his way and there's two wild card teams, the possibility is even more real.

Nymr83
Feb 02 2012 05:21 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Mets will be the only team in the NL East under .500

Edgy MD
Feb 02 2012 06:43 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

The Mets.

Will be.

A-MAY-zing.

Vic Sage
Feb 02 2012 08:12 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

yeah, but not necessarily in a good way.

Edgy MD
Feb 02 2012 08:25 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Maybe, but the amount of online self-immolations has made this quite an offseason for weenies.

A a diehard Met fan, I'm begging you..... please trade David Wright. He deserves better than this.

Mets – Willets Point
Feb 02 2012 08:30 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Edgy DC wrote:
The Mets.

Will be.

A-MAY-zing.


This just means that the Mets will have a really great May.

bmfc1
Feb 05 2012 03:32 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Rick Ankiel signs a minor league contract with the Nationals. His arm and decent power would have been a nice addition to the Mets bench, but no.

Frayed Knot
Feb 11 2012 05:22 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

MLB.com -- Marlins reportedly presented [Cuban FA OFer Yeonis] Cespedes with a six-year, $40 million contract offer to consider.

This follows his visit to them a few days ago. The 26 y/o defector has not yet been cleared to sign a ML deal although he has established residency in the DR and can talk to and even negotiate deals with ML clubs.

smg58
Feb 11 2012 10:19 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

bmfc1 wrote:
Rick Ankiel signs a minor league contract with the Nationals. His arm and decent power would have been a nice addition to the Mets bench, but no.


Alderson appears to be waiting and seeing as far as that lefty outfield spot on the bench goes. Either that, or he thinks Mike Baxter is good enough. I hope its the former.

Edgy MD
Feb 12 2012 06:01 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

There's also Adam Loewen and Kirk Nieuwenhuis competing for that role, or at least the role of outstanding compound vowel Met.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Feb 12 2012 08:25 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

DiComo's article on Niuewy the other day made it seem as though he had no shot of going north barring some kind of disaster. Makes enough sense to see if he can start hitting like he did again in the minors and force a midseason appearance.

I like Loewen for whatever reason.

Frayed Knot
Feb 12 2012 09:27 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

After missing the 2nd half of last season I think it's probably wise to keep Nieuwenhuis in AAA for a while. Loewen, already 28 y/o and trying to be the next Ankiel, is a more likely candidate for experimentation.

Or maybe we can just combine the two of them which will also give the announcer the opportunity to say: 'Tonight, let it be Loewenhuis' whenever he/them come into the game.

Edgy MD
Feb 12 2012 12:26 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

I'm certainly not arguing for Niuewy, but I also see no reason why he couldn't come up in six weeks if the more veteran guys weren't doing the job and he was.

Ceetar
Feb 12 2012 08:27 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote:
DiComo's article on Niuewy the other day made it seem as though he had no shot of going north barring some kind of disaster. Makes enough sense to see if he can start hitting like he did again in the minors and force a midseason appearance.

I like Loewen for whatever reason.


DePodesta had said late last year that Nieuwenhuis would've probably gotten a September look if he hadn't gotten hurt as well.

Sounds like the best case scenario is he's Ike Davis of 2010, kills Spring Training, continues to hit in the minors and forces his way up. I doubt Torres will be as bad as Jacobs, but an injury could accelerate things as well.

Edgy MD
Feb 12 2012 09:05 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Torres may not but his backup might.

Ceetar
Feb 12 2012 09:13 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Edgy DC wrote:
Torres may not but his backup might.


You really think the Mets are gonna promote Nieuwenhuis to play part time?

Edgy MD
Feb 12 2012 09:36 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

It happens sometimes. Happened with Tejada, for instance.

Nobody gets buried on the bench anymore. There's plenty of PT for everybody. They could call him up to replace some backup to Torres, but give him a chance to steal Torres' job.

Trying to give prospects a chance to play every day is a useful value, but it's not so pre-eminent as all that.

Ceetar
Feb 12 2012 09:53 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Edgy DC wrote:
It happens sometimes. Happened with Tejada, for instance.

Nobody gets buried on the bench anymore. There's plenty of PT for everybody. They could call him up to replace some backup to Torres, but give him a chance to steal Torres' job.

Trying to give prospects a chance to play every day is a useful value, but it's not so pre-eminent as all that.


Oh, I agree, but the prevailing reason given for him not making the team is wanting him to get some more AB in the minors. I guess the hitting lefty thing is a big factor, if the Baxter type isn't getting it done, but I don't think it happens if Torres is doing very well.

Edgy MD
Feb 21 2012 08:35 AM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Tommy Hanson and the Braves trying to break the Mets stranglehold on the concussion market.

http://markbowman.mlblogs.com/2012/02/2 ... oncussion/

Edgy MD
Feb 22 2012 01:03 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Tim Hudson, coming off back surgery, looks to be out until early May, and the Mets --- for right now at least --- look to have a stronger rotation in 2012 than at least one division rival.

Frayed Knot
Mar 16 2012 03:15 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

- Phillies release Dontrelle Willis who was trying out for a pen job

- Nats say CM Wang will be out "several weeks at minimum" as the result of a pulled hamstring

metirish
Mar 26 2012 02:59 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Jon Heyman ? @JonHeymanCBS
#mets sign chris young, the pitcher, to minor-league deal. Mccullough from star-ledger 1st suggested

Ashie62
Mar 26 2012 04:09 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Its true the Mets can recover 3/4 of Pelfrey unguaranteed salary by releasing him before opening day?

Make it so!

smg58
Mar 26 2012 04:56 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

Young is not likely to be ready for Opening Day at this point, but at the very least it gives the Mets an option should Pelfrey fail to enormously improve on his ST performance once the games count.

Ashie62
Mar 26 2012 08:49 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

smg58 wrote:
Young is not likely to be ready for Opening Day at this point, but at the very least it gives the Mets an option should Pelfrey fail to enormously improve on his ST performance once the games count.


I know Young won't be ready anytime soon, but geez, throw just about anybody out there to save 4.5 million..

Edgy MD
Mar 26 2012 09:29 PM
Re: NL East winter moves 2011-12

I don't believe it's that easy for a minute. Come on, you can't possibly either.