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New CBA

Benjamin Grimm Nov 22 2011 06:39 AM

The owners and players are set to announce a new Collective Bargaining Agreement on Tuesday of next week. It will run through 2016, which will mean 21 years without a work stoppage in baseball. There's something they can be legitimately proud of, especially as the NBA seems to be going down the tubes right now. There will be blood testing for HGH, and some rather complex rules for slotting of draft picks. There will be a luxury tax if you overspend on draft picks, but there are exceptions (I think) for early rounds, and the penalties are higher for teams that don't get the early round picks. The most interesting wrinkle to me is the one about compensation for Type A free agents. Previously you had to offer arbitration to the player in order to qualify for the compensation pick. Now, you'll have to offer a guaranteed contract for at least one year, $12 million.

Frayed Knot Nov 22 2011 06:42 AM Re: New CBA

My comments ... * 5 years -- decent length. I think the NFL players were nuts to lock themselves into a decade long deal * raise in min salary, eventually up to a half-mil -- fine, whatever * Blood test for HGH, possibly as soon as spring 2012 with similar penalties to steroid use -- not that I'm against this, but it does surprise me that it was agreed to and count me as one who's skeptical both of the accuracy of such tests and on whether HGH is even performance enhancing. Hell, even the NFL players are slow-tracking their agreement to this and they're reluctant to rock the boat on anything. * a Luxury Tax for the 1st year player draft -- Not specific hard-slotting for each pick, but some sort of overall limit on the cumulative money spent on one year's haul. Go over it and there's a penalty tax, although it seems to me there'll have to be some kind of complex sliding scale based on where your picks fall in any given year rather than some one-size-fits-all number. * changes in draft compensation -- details not out yet, but it's most likely going to start with next year's FAs (affecting the 2013 draft) and will involve altering the formula used to determine type A & B FAs (relievers, for example, are far over-valued under the current formulas used), shrinking the pct of players who can reach those thresholds, and lessening the compensation due to a team losing a FA

Ceetar Nov 22 2011 06:46 AM Re: New CBA

Benjamin Grimm wrote: The owners and players are set to announce a new Collective Bargaining Agreement on Tuesday of next week. It will run through 2016, which will mean 21 years without a work stoppage in baseball. There's something they can be legitimately proud of, especially as the NBA seems to be going down the tubes right now. There will be blood testing for HGH, and some rather complex rules for slotting of draft picks. There will be a luxury tax if you overspend on draft picks, but there are exceptions (I think) for early rounds, and the penalties are higher for teams that don't get the early round picks. The most interesting wrinkle to me is the one about compensation for Type A free agents. Previously you had to offer arbitration to the player in order to qualify for the compensation pick. Now, you'll have to offer a guaranteed contract for at least one year, $12 million. Some 'grandfathering' here supposedly, with the compensation. But basically eliminates the middle relievers giving anyone draft picks. Carlos Beltran may not have gotten the Mets a draft pick this year anyway under these rules. And unfortunately, I think it means the Phillies do not have to give up a draft pick for Papelbon.

Edgy MD Nov 22 2011 06:53 AM Re: New CBA

I'm going to say boo on the luxury tax thingie.

Ceetar Nov 22 2011 07:09 AM Re: New CBA

Edgy DC wrote: I'm going to say boo on the luxury tax thingie. I'm gonna hold off for specific details before I boo or yay or eh it. (unless you were hoping for a hard cap or something) seems the details are still fuzzy on how much, etc.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 22 2011 07:10 AM Re: New CBA

I'd bet $10,000 that Edgy wasn't looking for a hard cap.

Edgy MD Nov 22 2011 07:11 AM Re: New CBA

I'll hold out to see if anyone takes up that bet before clarifying.

Ceetar Nov 22 2011 07:17 AM Re: New CBA

didn't think he was. But the other details still seem fuzzy and i'm not sure how much of a difference it's really going to make. I know _I_ wanted a hard cap. err, hard slot not hard cap.

Frayed Knot Nov 22 2011 07:48 AM Re: New CBA

Edgy DC wrote: I'm going to say boo on the luxury tax thingie. Yeah, but if it helps to scuttle the current system where Bud and his henchmen claim the last right of approval for each contract that's a penny over the "suggested" figure and hold up the announcement of every deal until an hour before the deadline because they don't want the handful of 'over-slot' deals to leak out early lest the remaining deals use those as a comparison it'll be an improvement. There was also talk of moving up the signing deadline to mid-July (currently mid-August) so as to get these guys signed while there's still some season left. The extra month just goes to waste anyway.

Edgy MD Nov 22 2011 07:58 AM Re: New CBA

In the end, it's swapping one unethical system for another. I notice they never put a cap on ticket prices

Benjamin Grimm Nov 22 2011 11:53 AM Re: New CBA

Some more details, courtesy of the Associated Press: Minimum Salary The minimum salary reaches the $500,000 mark in 2014, and then there will be cost-of-living increases in both of the following two years. Amateur Draft There will also be a new "competitive balance lottery'' that gives small-market teams extra selections in the amateur draft. Owners achieved their goal of reining in spending on amateur players coming to the major leagues. For high school and college players taken in the June amateur draft, there will be five bands of penalties, starting with a 75 percent tax on the amount 0-5 percent over a specified threshold for each team next year, based on its selection spot. For teams going 5-10 percent over, the tax will rise to 100 percent and they will lose their next first-round draft pick. If a team goes more than 15 percent over, it could lose its following two first-round draft picks. For players taken in the 11th round and beyond, teams may give them signing bonuses up to $100,000 without it counting against the new threshold. For international amateur signings from nations such as the Dominican Republic and Venezuela, a luxury tax will begin with the July 2012-June 2013 signing season. Free Agent Compensation Major league free agent compensation will be completely revised in 2013, with a team having to offer its former players who became free agents the average of the top 125 contracts - currently about $12 million - to receive draft-pick compensation if a player signs with a new team. It eliminates the statistical formula that had been in place since the 1981 strike settlement. Arbitration In addition, the portion of players with 2-3 years of major league service who are eligible for salary arbitration will rise from 17 percent to 22 percent starting in 2013. Revenue Sharing And there a new market disqualification test, preventing teams from large markets from receiving revenue-sharing proceeds - and lowering the amount the big teams pay as long as they stay under the payroll threshold.

Edgy MD Nov 22 2011 12:16 PM Re: New CBA

The players are bargaining with the rights of the now-amateurs that will come after them. Not cool.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 22 2011 12:28 PM Re: New CBA

USA Today adds this: Instant replay also will be expanded, subject to negotiations between MLB and the umpires' union, to include fair/foul and trapped/caught balls.

Ceetar Nov 22 2011 12:41 PM Re: New CBA

Edgy DC wrote: The players are bargaining with the rights of the now-amateurs that will come after them. Not cool. NFL did this too right? and NBA talking about it?

Edgy MD Nov 22 2011 12:56 PM Re: New CBA

I guess so. I would know little about that. I only know it's not cool. But I think the entire draft system is lousy.

Frayed Knot Nov 22 2011 01:10 PM Re: New CBA

Ceetar wrote: Edgy DC wrote: The players are bargaining with the rights of the now-amateurs that will come after them. Not cool. NFL did this too right? and NBA talking about it? Both the NFL & the NBA players associations long ago agreed to restrictions on incoming rookies - both in the amount of money they're limited to and also the timing of when they can even enter the process. Occasionally some amateur tries to sue their way around those seemingly illegal restrictions but the ruling have said that because the limits were agreed to as part of a collective bargaining process they can be legally enforced.

Frayed Knot Nov 22 2011 01:17 PM Re: New CBA

Benjamin Grimm wrote: USA Today adds this: Instant replay also will be expanded, subject to negotiations between MLB and the umpires' union, to include fair/foul and trapped/caught balls. I'm very (Tim) leery of this.

HahnSolo Nov 22 2011 01:25 PM Re: New CBA

I'm OK with fair/foul replays. For the most part, we can get a replay that is pretty definitive (OK maybe not when the ball travels OVER the pole, but most of the time). Catches/traps are a bit tougher. I swear there are some replays I see where one angle looks definitely like a catch and another it appears to be a trapped ball. Also what about the balls that hit the glove and bounce up, giving it the appearance of being a trap. I say nay on the catch/trap replay.

Ceetar Nov 22 2011 01:29 PM Re: New CBA

HahnSolo wrote: I'm OK with fair/foul replays. For the most part, we can get a replay that is pretty definitive (OK maybe not when the ball travels OVER the pole, but most of the time). Catches/traps are a bit tougher. I swear there are some replays I see where one angle looks definitely like a catch and another it appears to be a trapped ball. Also what about the balls that hit the glove and bounce up, giving it the appearance of being a trap. I say nay on the catch/trap replay. Balls that hit the glove and bounce up are most likely to be called a trap by the naked eye and more easily overturned via replay.

Frayed Knot Nov 22 2011 01:44 PM Re: New CBA

And when a call is reversed after the batter, the base-runners, and fielders have all made decisions (good or bad) based on that original live-ball call ... then what?

sharpie Nov 22 2011 02:12 PM Re: New CBA

Also this: All-Star Game Players will be required to play in the All-Star Game if selected, unless one has an injury or is otherwise excused by the Commissioner's Office.

HahnSolo Nov 22 2011 02:41 PM Re: New CBA

sharpie wrote: Also this: All-Star Game Players will be required to play in the All-Star Game if selected, unless one has an injury or is otherwise excused by the Commissioner's Office. Or they're a Yankee.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 22 2011 03:00 PM Re: New CBA

Some 'grandfathering' here supposedly, with the compensation. But basically eliminates the middle relievers giving anyone draft picks. Carlos Beltran may not have gotten the Mets a draft pick this year anyway under these rules. And unfortunately, I think it means the Phillies do not have to give up a draft pick for Papelbon. Actually... the new rules are supposedly not retroactive, meaning: A) The Phils have to give up their first-rounder to Boston B) The as-yet unsigned Ryan Madson will bring back compensation, but not old-style Type A first-plus-supplemental compensation. So, one tiny hidden benefit for non-Philadelphian NLkind.

Gwreck Nov 22 2011 03:23 PM Re: New CBA

I found this nugget very interesting: "Active Roster limits will be expanded to 26 for certain regular or split doubleheaders."

Gwreck Nov 22 2011 03:28 PM Re: New CBA

A comprehensive summary can be found here (PDF): Link

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 22 2011 04:28 PM Re: New CBA

Edgy DC wrote: I'm going to say boo on the luxury tax thingie. Not only is it unethical, but-- as the "Bonus Pool" formulation is a de facto slotting system-- it kinda puts another dagger in small-market gamblin'-type organizations, doesn't it?

Benjamin Grimm Nov 22 2011 07:05 PM Re: New CBA

The parties agreed that no new players will be permitted to use a low density maple bat during the term of the agreement. Hmmm... I wonder what prompted this? By 2013, all Major League players will wear a new batting helmet developed by Rawlings that protects against pitches thrown at 100 miles per hour. The new version of the helmet is significantly less “bulky” than prior versions of the more protective helmet. Also interesting. I wonder if it will be at all Gazoo-like? The concussion policy that was implemented prior to the 2011 season has been improved and will remain in effect for the duration of the Basic Agreement. Improved in what way? Players, managers, and coaches will be prohibited from using smokeless tobacco during televised interviews and Club appearances. In addition, at any time when fans are permitted in the ballpark, players, managers and coaches must conceal tobacco products (including packages and tins), and may not carry tobacco products in their uniforms or on their bodies. Individuals who violate the policy will be subject to discipline. The parties also agreed upon an extensive program of education and public outreach regarding the dangers of smokeless tobacco. I guess this is a good idea.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 22 2011 07:14 PM Re: New CBA

Can they still smoke in the dugout?

Frayed Knot Nov 22 2011 07:33 PM Re: New CBA

Benjamin Grimm wrote: The parties agreed that no new players will be permitted to use a low density maple bat during the term of the agreement. Hmmm... I wonder what prompted this? Those are the bats that are more given to dramatically shattering. The traditional ash bats when they break tend to chip; maple ones tend to explode. Probably they're afraid of decapitating a few pitchers.

Ceetar Nov 22 2011 08:24 PM Re: New CBA

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Edgy DC wrote: I'm going to say boo on the luxury tax thingie. Not only is it unethical, but-- as the "Bonus Pool" formulation is a de facto slotting system-- it kinda puts another dagger in small-market gamblin'-type organizations, doesn't it? except small-market teams get extra picks, plus over-slot is still clearly possible, but you have to be smarter with it. Can't just willy nilly throw money at everyone. So benefits the small market in a way. Draftees will also be bidding against each other. The faster you sign, the more is available in the pool to give you. On the o ther hand, if you wait it out, maybe a higher pick opts for college, opening up all that extra money for you. 26 man rosters for doubleheaders, changes to the 4th option/outrighting rules, more replay. lots of interesting stuff. No new Maple bats, although Mariano Rivera will be grandfathered in, and screw you for judging him.

Edgy MD Nov 22 2011 09:05 PM Re: New CBA

Gwreck wrote: I found this nugget very interesting: "Active Roster limits will be expanded to 26 for certain regular or split doubleheaders." Oh, mercy. Thank God Tony LaRussa won't be around for that indulgence.

Edgy MD Nov 22 2011 09:07 PM Re: New CBA

Ceetar wrote: LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Edgy DC wrote: I'm going to say boo on the luxury tax thingie. Not only is it unethical, but-- as the "Bonus Pool" formulation is a de facto slotting system-- it kinda puts another dagger in small-market gamblin'-type organizations, doesn't it? except small-market teams get extra picks, plus over-slot is still clearly possible, but you have to be smarter with it. Can't just willy nilly throw money at everyone. So benefits the small market in a way. Draftees will also be bidding against each other. The faster you sign, the more is available in the pool to give you. On the o ther hand, if you wait it out, maybe a higher pick opts for college, opening up all that extra money for you. 26 man rosters for doubleheaders, changes to the 4th option/outrighting rules, more replay. lots of interesting stuff. Amateur talent shouldn't be competing against each other for an artificially finite amount of money. Teams should be competing against each other for a naturally finite amount of talent.

Frayed Knot Nov 23 2011 11:26 AM Re: New CBA

Some details/less-noted changes (courtesy of BP): * Free agents who sign minor-leaguer contracts who are not added to opening day roster or are unconditionally released five days prior to the start of the season will receive a $100,000 retention bonus and the right to elect free agency June 1. * On FA signings - Only players who have been with their clubs for the entire season will be subject to compensation [no comp for Beltran-like pickups] - A free agent will be subject to compensation if his former club offers him a guaranteed one-year contract with a salary equal to the average salary of the 125-highest paid players from the prior season [currently around $12.5mil]. The offer must be made at the end of the five-day free agent “quiet period,” and the player will have seven days to accept the offer. - A club that signs a player subject to compensation will forfeit its first round selection, unless it selects [u:3pxabs33]in the top 10[/u:3pxabs33], in which case it will forfeit its second highest selection in the draft. [previously that was top 15] - The player’s former club will receive a selection at the end of the first round beginning after the last regularly scheduled selection in the round [IOW, a supplemental pick]. The former clubs will select based on reverse order of winning percentage from the prior championship season [previously this was based on the "value" of the FA signed as per the now-discarded) Elias ratings]. [What this whole thing also means is fewer supplemental picks and sliding the start of round 2 much earlier] * On first-year (Rule 4) player drafts - The signing deadline will be moved to a date between July 12 and July 18 depending on the date of the All-Star Game [previously Aug 15th] - Drafted players may only sign minor-league contracts. [this one is actually a biggie and it seems to me it may turn certain multi-sport athletes away from baseball] - Players selected after the 10th round do not count against a club’s signing bonus pool if they receive bonuses up to $100,000. Any amounts paid in excess of $100,000 will count against the pool.

Gwreck Nov 23 2011 12:10 PM Re: New CBA

Frayed Knot wrote: it seems to me it may turn certain multi-sport athletes away from baseball Yes. As will the new procedure to hold down the signing bonuses paid to draft picks. Say you're an elite high school athlete. Chances are that you play something in the fall or winter besides baseball. If you were getting a $5M bonus guaranteed, you might be persuaded to forego a scholarship at a Big 10 or SEC University. But if they're only offering $500,000, well, playing basketball or football while also getting a degree might be more attractive.

metsguyinmichigan Nov 23 2011 01:56 PM Re: New CBA

Gwreck wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: it seems to me it may turn certain multi-sport athletes away from baseball Yes. As will the new procedure to hold down the signing bonuses paid to draft picks. Say you're an elite high school athlete. Chances are that you play something in the fall or winter besides baseball. I used to think this, too, and that was probably true when you and I were kids. But, as my son progressed through high school sports, I learned that the elite kids play the same sport year-round, or at least a sport very similar. My son was not an elite player -- I was so excited when he finally scored a goal in water polo and won a race in swimming -- but the stud players who were aiming at scholarships went from the regular season to "club" sports and travel teams. The water polo guys and swimmers were pretty much the same group, but I was surprised that they went year-round. Now,what do baseball players do in Michigan in February? I'm not sure. We have a bunch of indoor facilities where they work on hitting and throwing.

Frayed Knot Nov 23 2011 02:15 PM Re: New CBA

There are still multi-sport athletes though despite this age of youth specialization. Not a lot, but the handful that do exist a frequently the elite types who can choose their path at a young age. As will the new procedure to hold down the signing bonuses paid to draft picks. It's not just the signing bonus. That's part of it although the true elite prospects will still tend to get their money. But the lack of the ML contract, which serves to speed up the timetable for advancement through the apprenticeship that is the minor leagues, could push those elites into their other sport where the payoff from HS star to 'big-time' colleges, or from college draftee straight into the pros is so much quicker.

metsguyinmichigan Nov 24 2011 09:47 AM Re: New CBA

I read that the new contract has a clause requiring players elected to the All-Star team to actually show up unless out with an injury or have special permission. They should call it "the Jeter Rule."

MFS62 Nov 24 2011 10:05 AM Re: New CBA

Frayed Knot wrote: ... could push those elites into their other sport where the payoff from HS star to 'big-time' colleges, or from college draftee straight into the pros is so much quicker. Depending the school, under the limitations of the new CBA, the move from college to pros could represent a sunstanital decrease in income. Later

Frayed Knot Nov 29 2011 10:19 AM Re: New CBA

More CBA details concerning the draft: - The draft has been reduced from 50 to 40 rounds. - The draft caps for all 30 teams for the first 10 rounds will total approximately $185 million in 2012, varying depending on the number of supplemental picks created by free-agent compensation and failure to sign 2011 draftees from the first three rounds. The competitive-balance lottery selections don't come into play until 2013. - Any attempt to circumvent the draft cap, such as an under-the-table agreement, is expressly prohibited. - If a team fails to sign a player in the first 10 rounds, its draft cap is reduced by the assigned value of his pick. It can't reallocate that value to sign other players. However, it can reallocate the difference between a player's bonus and the value of his choice. - If a player fails a physical and the team fails to offer him 40 percent of the assigned value of his pick, he becomes a free agent. In that case, the club's draft cap would be reduced by the value of his selection. - Not only has the signing deadline moved from Aug. 15 to mid-July, it will be at 5 p.m. rather than midnight ET. The 2012 deadline is July 13. - MLB has eliminated its draft-support program, which served as a clearinghouse for offers and was used to strong-arm teams into not disclosing over-slot deals until shortly before the deadline. This means clubs actually can announce signings as they happen rather than pretend that they haven't occurred. - Competitive-balance lottery picks (and only those picks) can be traded. They can only be dealt by the original team that held the choice, and they can't be exchanged for cash (unless it's cash to offset the salary of players included in the trade, subject to MLB approval). Lottery-pick deals can occur only during a regular season and not during an offseason. - Teams get an extra year of protection for compensation picks for failure to sign draftees from the first three rounds. For example, the Blue Jays get the 22nd pick in 2012 after not signing No. 21 overall choice Tyler Beede in 2011. If Toronto can't come to terms with the compensation selection, it would get another one in 2013. - Teams no longer are required to physically tender a contract to draftees within 15 days of the draft, eliminating the rule that infamously led to the four loophole free agents of 1996. - The logistics for a proposed predraft medical combine still are being worked out.

Edgy MD Nov 29 2011 10:44 AM Re: New CBA

I hope the top five picks of 2012 all declare themselves free agents.

Vic Sage Nov 29 2011 10:56 AM Re: New CBA

Edgy DC wrote: I hope the top five picks of 2012 all declare themselves free agents. Under what theory? MLB has an anti-trust exemption and the draft is legal. Not that i wouldn't enjoy the ensuing chaos...

Edgy MD Nov 29 2011 11:08 AM Re: New CBA

That the anti-trust exemption is mounted on a bogus foundation and should be thrown out by a court, as MLB continues to use it to rob amateurs of their rights to shop their talents on the open market. And now, by capping draftee salaries, they're expanding that anti-competitive open conspiracy.

Frayed Knot Nov 29 2011 01:20 PM Re: New CBA

Courts have also upheld the legality of the NFL's draft even as it not only dictates the team that players are limited to negotiating with but also severely limits when they can enter into it, and all despite that league having no such blanket anti-trust exemption.

Edgy MD Nov 29 2011 01:28 PM Re: New CBA

Well, sheesh, it's wrong and I nonetheless hopes that the system collapses.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 29 2011 01:29 PM Re: New CBA

The draft system itself is a joke and an artificial drag on salaries. To introduce $$ limits will only hurt the flow of athletes to baseball over the long haul.

Frayed Knot Nov 29 2011 01:40 PM Re: New CBA

Edgy DC wrote: Well, jeez, I hope nonetheless. And that's fine. It's just that MLB's anti-trust exemption has been so watered-down over the years that it barely matters and it's long been my contention that the threat of it's removal remains a vastly over-played card. The protection could disappear tomorrow and I doubt much if anything would change now that we're four decades into the unionized era.

Ceetar Nov 29 2011 02:16 PM Re: New CBA

I suspect it's far from certain that this is necessarily going to drive talent away from baseball, or necessarily hurt small market teams. It's something to keep an eye on, but I don't think anyone exactly sure how it'll end up playing out.

Frayed Knot Nov 29 2011 02:58 PM Re: New CBA

The point being that the very existence of a draft works to severely limit the amount of money an incoming player can make from that initial contract; that's why the team owners like it, they see it as something which saves them money and in the short run it certainly does. But that same limiting process can also drive potential players away from the sport particularly in baseball where the odds against succeeding are long as is the apprenticeship and therefore the lead-time until reaching the really big money. Teenagers tempted by the quicker perceived route to stardom - as in college basketball or football - will often choose that option.

Edgy MD Nov 29 2011 08:25 PM Re: New CBA

Frayed Knot wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Well, jeez, I hope nonetheless. And that's fine. It's just that MLB's anti-trust exemption has been so watered-down over the years that it barely matters and it's long been my contention that the threat of it's removal remains a vastly over-played card. The protection could disappear tomorrow and I doubt much if anything would change now that we're four decades into the unionized era. And the draft would still be bogus. And we're far more than four decades into unionized ball. I haven't played a card. It's Sage who brought up the anti-trust exemption.