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NL East Fixes by David Schoenfield
metirish Nov 29 2011 09:50 AM |
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Some good stuff in here
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TransMonk Nov 29 2011 10:03 AM Re: NL East Fixes by David Schoenfield |
So, he's basically telling us to stand pat with internal options at SS and RF and to go cheap and deep in the bullpen?
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Edgy MD Nov 29 2011 10:41 AM Re: NL East Fixes by David Schoenfield |
You don't have to believe in Johan Santana's "comeback." You get anything out of him, and it's an improvement on 2011. You're already paying, so relative to last season, anything you get is free.
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Vic Sage Nov 29 2011 10:52 AM Re: NL East Fixes by David Schoenfield |
Santana's comeback isn't free; it costs a spot on the 25-man roster and a regular turn in our rotation. Theoretically, he'll be replacing Capuano, who went 11-12 for not much money. How much better is Santana going to be? As the writer implies, we have to take it on faith alone that he'll come back from serious injury and do much better than Cappy did last year. So i don't see his return as much of an upgrade in our starting pitching.
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Edgy MD Nov 29 2011 11:03 AM Re: NL East Fixes by David Schoenfield |
Wait. You don't think it's worth zero additional dollars to see if Santana can perform better than the last guy on the roster, because roster spots are too expensive?
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batmagadanleadoff Nov 29 2011 11:04 AM Re: NL East Fixes by David Schoenfield |
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I stopped reading as soon as I came across this line:
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batmagadanleadoff Nov 29 2011 11:08 AM Re: NL East Fixes by David Schoenfield |
Well, they're still paying $25m for Santana, so they'd like to get some semblance of their money's worth. I agree with Sage. BTW, the Mets starting rotation is their big black hole. It's a last place rotation: questionmarks, ceilings that aren't high enough, mediocrity and RA Dickey.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 29 2011 11:16 AM Re: NL East Fixes by David Schoenfield |
Yeah, what Schoenfeld proposes isn't a fix, per se, but this hadn't a team you"fix.;" it's a build-and-wait project.
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Ashie62 Nov 29 2011 11:26 AM Re: NL East Fixes by David Schoenfield |
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Free? I'm not comfortable with that even in a "relatively" sense.
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Edgy MD Nov 29 2011 11:33 AM Re: NL East Fixes by David Schoenfield |
The money is his whether we like it or not, so it's best to put that thought aside. Right now, it's just a matter of whether he's healthy enough to give the team more than Chris Schwinden or Dillon Owen. You don't have to be deliriously hopeful to think that he should. Though he certainly might not.
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smg58 Nov 29 2011 02:59 PM Re: NL East Fixes by David Schoenfield |
It was Capuano's first full season back from TJS. I see him as sort of the low bar for what to expect from Johan (27 homers in 180 IP while pitching half your games in Citi? There's no positive spin to that), with the naively optimistic high end being Chris Carpenter's full return. I'll happily take something in the middle.
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Vic Sage Nov 29 2011 03:18 PM Re: NL East Fixes by David Schoenfield Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 30 2011 08:30 AM |
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yeah, i'm pretty sure i didn't say anything even remotely similar to that. I said that, in comparing this year's projected staff with last year's, the IP Santana will give us will be not be in addition to, but instead of, what we got from Capuano, who no longer has a spot in our rotation. And no, i don't think we'll get more from him than what we got from Capuano, at least not much more. Certainly not $20m worth more... but you're right, that's a sunk cost and irrelevant since the Mets owe it whether he plays or not. And I'm not saying i wouldn't prefer taking a shot on Santana rather than AAAA borderline guys this season (Besides, we've already got one of those in the rotation with Gee). But its not like we're just adding Santana. We're replacing Cappy's production with his. So no, i don't see that as a big plus for the rotation. Maybe a little "plus", but not enough to make a difference, unless all the other question marks in the rotation are answered positively. which is highly unlikely.
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Vic Sage Nov 29 2011 03:31 PM Re: NL East Fixes by David Schoenfield |
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i suppose i could disagree with you more, but i'd probably sprain something in the attempt. If your criteria for "five guys who belong on a major league roster" is simply 5 guys who were on a major league roster last year, then ok. but i don't think it is. Aside from Dickey, not one of our guys had even a decent year and i've little confidence that any of them but Niese is even capable (much less are LIKELY) to be much better. About Gee: I don't trust a pitcher over the long term whose only good stat in a partial season is "wins". He had a good start but faded badly and is still a AAA pitcher as far as I'm concerned. As for the bullpen, Parnell blew up in high leverage situations, but the other guys you've listed did not have particularly terrible years. Would i like better ones? yeah, but Acosta and Beato are young with good arms and upside, and Byrdak got lefties out, mostly. And considering how little these guys pitch, as compared to starters, thinking that replacing their innings with other low-cost options is the answer (or even AN answer) for the Mets next year is just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.
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Edgy MD Nov 29 2011 09:05 PM Re: NL East Fixes by David Schoenfield |
Well, the initial plus on Santana over Capuano, if that's how it shakes out, would be $1.5 million to spend elsewhere --- meaningful money, I think, on the Austeritymets.
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Vic Sage Nov 29 2011 11:08 PM Re: NL East Fixes by David Schoenfield |
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well, with the payroll dropping around $40m, the only place that $1.5m is going is in the wilpons' pocket -- actually, their lawyers' pockets.
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Edgy MD Nov 30 2011 07:56 AM Re: NL East Fixes by David Schoenfield |
The drop in the payroll, like the obligation to Santana, seems to be something that happens either way.
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Vic Sage Nov 30 2011 08:27 AM Re: NL East Fixes by David Schoenfield |
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you said:
and i'm saying "no", it won't be spent elsewhere. its money coming off the budget and instead of going back into the team, it'll go to service the wilpon debts. so its NOT a plus for the team... just for Fred.
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Ceetar Nov 30 2011 09:24 AM Re: NL East Fixes by David Schoenfield |
money not spent on the team is not going to the Wilpons, it's simply decreasing the amount of money the Mets lose next year. (Unless they make the playoffs, which I'd gladly trade for a couple of million profit being taken out..)
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metirish Nov 30 2011 10:07 AM Re: NL East Fixes by David Schoenfield |
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I've looked at that several times and well how can you be sure either way?, any money not spent on players could go to other Wilpon ventures, trust funds, pension funds etc.?
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Ceetar Nov 30 2011 11:35 AM Re: NL East Fixes by David Schoenfield |
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I guess you can't be sure sure...but I'm pretty sure. It's almost a lock that expenditures will be greater than revenue (and the Mets have a loan with MLB, beyond the Wilpons financial troubles) so if the Wilpons were to take $5 million and say pay off a trust fund or something, that's $5 million more the Mets are in debt. I think the Wilpons not doing that is the key difference between why they're still here, and the McCourts aren't.
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Edgy MD Nov 30 2011 12:05 PM Re: NL East Fixes by David Schoenfield |
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Yeah, I know what I said.
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