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Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

SteveJRogers Nov 26 2011 02:35 PM

Looks like the NBA will be back by Christmas. Well, last time this happened, the Knicks snuck in a Conference Championship. Can lightning strike twice?

Ashie62 Nov 26 2011 04:03 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

They will have to beat those pesky Nets. I hear Billy Paultz is back in shape.

Frayed Knot Nov 26 2011 07:39 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

A 66 game season: 16 fewer than usual, but still 16 more than optimal.

Nymr83 Dec 06 2011 08:53 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Thanks to Wilpon being a shmuck, I'm more interested in the Knicks than the Mets for the first time since the baseball strike ended 16 years ago! Where's Vic Sage with the projected roster?

Vic Sage Dec 06 2011 10:42 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude? Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 12 2011 02:10 PM

Where's Vic Sage with the projected roster? it's in the other "2011-12 Knicks suck" thread: Knicks have made a qualifying offer to Derrick Brown, a restricted FA. So he's likely to stay. According to Frank Isola, they're also looking at some vet big men for 1-year deals, particularly Kurt Thomas. I love Thomas; he's a thug and would provide Oakley-esque role model for JJordan, Harrellson, not to mention Stoudemire. Turiaf can only do so much of that from the DL. With the Shumpert draft, I also wouldn't be surprised if they traded Touchdown Tony Douglas for a real backup PG. I like TD, and he was playing hurt last year so he's better than he showed, but they need a more consistent, reliable distributor to run the point, with Billups an aging injury risk. They apparently think Shumpert can play some minutes at PG (I'm dubious, but ok), but we need someone more reliable than that behind Chauncey. They might as well re-sign AC, who can still run the point, if nothing better is available. starters: Billups / Fields / Melo / Stoudemire / Turiaf rotation: Douglas / Shumpert / Walker / Balkman / Harrellson Bench: DBrown, JJordan IR: Routins, _____, ______ FAs: Anthony Carter / Roger Mason / Jarred Jeffries / Shawne Williams / Sheldon Williams At this point, I'd like them to sign an actual Center and a decent backup PG, use the new "amnesty" on Balkman's contract, and re-sign Shawne Williams.

Vic Sage Dec 08 2011 09:55 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

it looks like the Bockers might still be hunting big game. the talk is they're really close to a deal for Tyson Chandler, giving them the interior defense and rebounding they so desperately need. the only way to do this is to "amnesty" Billups and move Turiaf, but i read where this deal is "98% done". Wow! also, they may give the mid-level exemption to Grant Hill (yea!), and may be resigning Jared Jeffries (boo!). all these moves, together with the arrival of rookie Iman Shumpert, speak to increased focus on defense, which i'm happy to see. However, we still lack a PG, especially without Billups. Are they really serious about letting Shumpert (a rookie and a tweener) be the starting PG on this team? or even Touchdown Toney? They'd be better off using the mid-level exemption on a veteran PG rather than Hill. They have enough guys who can play SG, especially when Melo and Stats are going to take all the shots anyway. What they need is a reliable ball distributor who can keep opposing PGs in front of them and hit an occasional J. although there is certainly something enticing about the balance of a starting lineup of Shumpert/Hill/Anthony/Stats/Chandler -- tenacious D plus multi-dimensional O, with Douglas/Walker/Fields/Jeffries backing them up. That's a shitload of D, my brothers.

metirish Dec 09 2011 09:02 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

How about the Chris Paul mess last night, Lakers announce they had a deal to acquire him only for Stern to veto it. http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/201 ... nance.html

HahnSolo Dec 09 2011 09:05 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

What do the Knicks see in Jared Jeffries?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 09 2011 09:36 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

metirish wrote: How about the Chris Paul mess last night, Lakers announce they had a deal to acquire him only for Stern to veto it. http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/201 ... nance.html Kinda crazy sh*t... and all kinds of wrong, precedence-setting-wise. But as someone who's really, REALLY hoping to see Chris Paul up to 40 times a year in my town... I'm okay with it. Vic Sage wrote: although there is certainly something enticing about the balance of a starting lineup of Shumpert/Hill/Anthony/Stats/Chandler -- tenacious D plus multi-dimensional O, with Douglas/Walker/Fields/Jeffries backing them up. That's a shitload of D, my brothers. It'll be like the '90s all over again, only fast and with less Ewing-sweat! You think Derek Harper is available? Or Chris Childs, even?

Vic Sage Dec 09 2011 12:16 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

i'll take Doc Rivers... as both PG AND head coach.

Vic Sage Dec 09 2011 02:53 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

It looks like the Chandler contract is a done deal; 4 years / $58m. They'll have to amnesty Billups, and they're offering Turiaf +$3m to any team that can take him, to make Chandler fit under the cap. So who plays PG? Baron Davis is rumored, if he is amnestied by the Cavs, but that's a long shot. And there is still talk of a package with Amare going to NO for Paul, but i don't believe that for a second. Probably end up with a fading vet + Shumpert + Douglas. By the way, Grant Hill used the Knicks' interest to get his price up and go back to the Suns... boo, Grant! starters: Shumpert (!) / Fields / Melo / Stoudemire / Chandler rotation: Douglas / Walker / Balkman / Jeffries Bench: Routins, Brown, Harrellson IR: Jordan (still in Europe), _______, ________ FAs: A.Carter / R.Mason / Sha.Williams / She.Williams

Nymr83 Dec 09 2011 03:15 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

I'm not a capologist, but I'm assuming the Knicks, with Stoudemire, Anthony, and Chandler, can't really do anything else either now or next offseason besides hand out veteran minimum contracts and whatever mid-level or other "exceptions" exist? So no shot at Paul in free agency? Lakers got hosed. And the Hornets got fucked too, because with that trade vetoed and Paul still wanting out they are more likely to become like the Cavs and get nothing when he eventually leaves anyway. The return they were getting here was pretty good for a guy a year away from free agency I think... In baseball, this would be a steal for the Hornets trading away a free agent-to-be for a haul like this... But I guess its different in the NBA where some of the owners and Stern seem to feel that they own the players and not just their contracts!

Vic Sage Dec 09 2011 03:39 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude? Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 09 2011 03:41 PM

I'm not a capologist, but I'm assuming the Knicks, with Stoudemire, Anthony, and Chandler, can't really do anything else either now or next offseason besides hand out veteran minimum contracts and whatever mid-level or other "exceptions" exist? So no shot at Paul in free agency? Pretty much. Melo/Stats/Chandler will be their core for the next 4 years, unless they trade one or more of them, and they'd have to build around them with draft picks, "exceptions", etc. Actually, i'm ok with that, because i think it was more important to get an interior defensive presence than Paul, or another PG or SG scorer. With this front court, all we need is a competent distributor who plays adequate D and can hit a 3 every once in a while, and who doesn't dribble the ball off his foot too often. That should be easier and cheaper to find than a 7-footer who blocks shots, rebounds, plays down low, and allows Amare to move back to the PF slot where he'll be more comfortable and have less wear and tear. My real problem with this move is that Chandler is fragile, and with Amare's bad back, it makes a catastrophically injury-plagued season a distinct possibility any given year from here on. But that adds a little sense of mystery to each season, i guess. Lakers got hosed. And the Hornets got fucked too, because with that trade vetoed and Paul still wanting out they are more likely to become like the Cavs and get nothing when he eventually leaves anyway. The return they were getting here was pretty good for a guy a year away from free agency I think... In baseball, this would be a steal for the Hornets trading away a free agent-to-be for a haul like this... But I guess its different in the NBA where some of the owners and Stern seem to feel that they own the players and not just their contracts! Screw the Lakers. But i do think that the NBA, as custodians of the Hornets, did a shitty job looking out for that franchise. The GM created a pretty good package for a guy who was going to play out his contract, and now they'll get absolutely nothing. How does that benefit the Hornets? Its not like they'll win a title this year, with or without Paul, so what are they preserving? This is about the other small market teams, terrified that such a deal would make LA too good, especially if followed by a DHoward trade. The deal would also put LA under the cap, so they wouldn't have to pay expected luxury taxes which these whining small market teams would otherwise be dividing up amongst themselves. And its about Stern, having forced this CBA down those same owners' throats, feeling like he had to do this for them or risk a mutiny of some sort. But its bad for NO, its bad for the league, its bad for the players involved... the only bright side is that it's bad for LA, too. But there are some out there who think LA just got saved from itself, since they would have sacrificed their huge front court to add a backcourt guy who was not necessarily compatible with Kobe, since both need the ball in their hands. Anyway, it may not be over, because the teams are appealing the decision, and there may be lawsuits.

Frayed Knot Dec 09 2011 03:40 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

How about the Chris Paul mess last night, Lakers announce they had a deal to acquire him only for Stern to veto it. http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/201 ... nance.html Going to be very interesting to see how this whole mess winds up. As commissioner, Stern of course has the power to 'act in the best interest' of the league and even more so in this case because the Hornets are currently owned by the league. And while various media types are comparing this to Charlie Finley's sale of various players that was slam-dunked by Bowie Kuhn all those years ago, Kuhn wielded the veto hammer because those "deals" were nothing more than straight sales mandated by the owner at huge figures that could both set a precedent as well as exclude smaller budget teams. This Paul deal, on the other hand, was a 3-team swap which netted New Orleans several big name players and was worked out by the New Orleans front office which assumed it had full autonomy (full autonomy?) to run the club. What appears to be upsetting many of the non-involved team owners (who are, by extension, part owners of N.O.) is that Chris Paul winds up with the perennial contender Lakers, the implication being that they'd be less ticked-off had he wound up somewhere else. That it's apparently the smaller market owners complaining the loudest - although the league office claims the decision was Stern's alone - is interesting because they were the most militant is pushing the lockout. The whole idea of the lockout was to limit the ability of large market teams to dominate the best talent but now, just hours after the formal approval of the settlement, everything seems like business as usual. The fact that Paul stands to be a F.A. at the end of the season potentially leaving N.O. with nothing for him seems to hurt the Hornets as much as the Lakers so I'd be pissed at His Stern-ness if I'm a fan of either team. Bottom line is that what this all shows is that, like the baseball settlements of the 1980s or, hell, even WWI for that matter, this latest NBA agreement didn't solve anything so much as it merely kicked the same issues a bit further down the road. And they're still there. oe: cross-posted with above

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 09 2011 05:40 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Vic Sage wrote: But there are some out there who think LA just got saved from itself, since they would have sacrificed their huge front court to add a backcourt guy who was not necessarily compatible with Kobe, since both need the ball in their hands. Anyway, it may not be over, because the teams are appealing the decision, and there may be lawsuits. Yeah, like everybody who follows basketball. Even if they insist on going double-max, this non-deal gives the Lakers more options at year's end for potentially obtaining Paul/retaining a non-minimum-wage frontcourt. Not that it matters, since, in the age of the max-salary, players flow to the sinks (NY, LA, Miami, Chicago, and Boston/Dallas, sorta) that can offer benefits beyond salary dollars. LA has more of an advantage, post-CBA-rev-share deal, not less, no? Also, no appeal, since "technically, [NO] withdrew the trade," so it never happened.

Vic Sage Dec 10 2011 07:39 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude? Edited 3 time(s), most recently on Dec 11 2011 09:40 AM

so far, the Knicks have: - released Chauncey Billups via the amnesty clause ($14.2m comes off the books); - traded Ronny Turiaf, 2013 2nd-rd pick and cash to Wizards to make room for Chandler - signed Tyson Chandler to a four-year, $58 million contract; - also sent Andy Rautins to the Mavs in the Chandler deal, getting back rights to Ahmad Nivins and Giorgos Printezis (both playing in Europe now) - withdrew their $1.1 million qualifying offer to Derrick Brown, who becomes an unrestricted free agent (and returns to Charlotte); - signed Jared Jeffries to a one-year, $1.4 million contract; - signed Iman Shumpert and Josh Harrellson to rookie contracts; - bought out Jerome Jordan from the Slovenian club; possibly in the works: - offering a deal to Mike Bibby (1 yr / minimum deal)* - sign & trade for JJ Barea (no details) in summary: starters: Douglas / Fields / Melo / Stoudemire / Chandler rotation: Bibby* / Shumpert / Walker / Jeffries Bench: Harrellson, Balkman, _______ IR: _____, _______, ________ have rights to: JJordan, Ahmad Nivins, Giorgos Printezis UFAs: A.Carter / R.Mason / Sha.Williams / She.Williams traded/released: Billups / Turiaf / Rautins / DBrown

Vic Sage Dec 10 2011 07:48 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

*avi*

Nymr83 Dec 11 2011 09:12 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

ESPN.com wrote: Mike Bibby's agent, David Falk, confirmed that the former Miami Heat point guard and 13-year veteran will sign with the New York Knicks on a one-year deal at the veteran's minimum of $1.4 million. "I've been trying for about six years to get him playing for (coach Mike) D'Antoni, but at the time this guy named (Steve) Nash was blocking us," Falk told ESPN The Magazine's Chris Broussard. "I've always felt Mike would flourish in his offense." Welcome aboard Mike. I'm actually getting excited for the Knicks. DEEEEE-FENSE!

Vic Sage Dec 12 2011 02:09 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

- JJ Barea signs with Timberwolves; - Knicks FA Anthony Carter signs with Toronto Raptors; and - Jamal Crawford has turned down the knicks' offer of the mid-level exception, but there is talk of a trade.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 12 2011 02:27 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Vic Sage wrote: - JJ Barea signs with Timberwolves It never ceases to amaze me when-- considering the location, time of year, and state-/history-of-franchise-- someone with other offers opts to play for Minnesota.

Vic Sage Dec 12 2011 02:46 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

well, Dallas was only offering 1 year, and he got 4 years/$19m from Minny. So that's 19million reasons right there. Also, playing with Ricky Rubio, Kevin Love, Beasley, and 2nd overall pick Derrick Williams, that's not necessarily a bad team right there. Sure, they've got Darko as their center, but alot of teams don't have a decent center. We didn't, until we signed Chandler.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 12 2011 02:49 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Fie on your... logic.

Vic Sage Dec 12 2011 03:08 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude? Edited 6 time(s), most recently on Dec 14 2011 09:30 AM

ALSO: Knicks have signed guard/forward Devin Green and forward/center Chris Hunter to fill out roster. Devin Green, 6-7, 212lb (Hampton), played with L.A. Lakers in 2005-06; spent the last five seasons playing overseas; he split last season between China and Bulgaria, averaging 18.2 pts / 7.8 rebs (34.1 min) for Shanghai and 13 pts / 4.5 rebs (25.2 min) for Lukoil Academic. Chris Hunter, 6-11, 240-lb (Michigan), originally signed with New York at the end of 2009 season, following a D-League All-Star season with Fort Wayne, where he holds career averages of 18.6 pts / 9.0 rebs. Roster = 13 starters: Douglas / Fields / Anthony / Stoudemire / Chandler rotation: Bibby / Shumpert / Walker / Jeffries Bench: Harrellson, Balkman, _______ IR: Green, Hunter, ________ still have rights to: JJordan, Ahmad Nivins, Giorgos Printezis Gone (traded or released/FA signed elsewhere): Billups / Turiaf / Rautins / DBrown / A.Carter / Sheldon Williams UFAs still available: Roger Mason / Shawne Williams (still discussing a deal)

Edgy MD Dec 12 2011 04:53 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Lotta Metly names in the picture.

Vic Sage Dec 14 2011 09:17 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Knicks still looking for someone to take their "room" exception ($2.5m/yr for 2 years): Jamal Crawford - passed on Indiana ($10m/2yrs), mulling substantial offers from Sac and Portland Shawne Williams - has a number of offers; waiting for Crawford to sign to see if Knicks make offer, but he's looking to sign somewhere now; Maurice Evans - why? I don't know; Baron Davis - still hasn't been "amnesty"-ied by Cleve, and may have an actual (rather than contract-related) back injury; I like E, have no use for Chukker Crawford, find the interest in Evans inexplicable and would leap at Davis in a heartbeat. We still have 2 roster slots available, with either Douglas (erratic), Bibby (fading vet) or Shumpert (rookie swing guard) the only options currently on the roster to be our starting PG. Oy. i'm hoping we sign E, for quality depth at the 2, 3 and 4 spots, and Baron Davis, to give us a legit option at PG.

Vic Sage Dec 16 2011 02:37 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Jerome Jordan finally signs, leaving one open roster spot. But damn.... Shawne Williams signs with the Nets -- they amnestied Travis Outlaw. Meanwhile, Jamal Crawford signed with Portland, and Reggie Williams with Charlotte, Mo Evans with Washington. So pickings are getting slim. They could use depth at alot of spots, including PG, but the biggest need is probably a wing scorer to come off the bench, for no more than the $2.5/yr "room exception". These include Peja Stojakovic, Willie Green, Nick Young, Michael Redd. If they prefer a PF, there's still Leon Powe, Reggie Evans, Joey Dorsey, James Posey, Bostjan Nachbar. Troy Murphy probably fills both needs. There's nothing on the PG front other than the injured Baron Davis, but the Clipps might dump Mo williams now that they have Paul, and he'd be a better option than anything currently on their roster or the waiver wire. starters: Douglas / Fields / Anthony / Stoudemire / Chandler rotation: Bibby / Shumpert / Walker / Jeffries Bench: Harrellson, Balkman, _______ ? IR: Green, Hunter, Jordan still have rights to: Ahmad Nivins, Giorgos Printezis Gone (traded or released/FA signed elsewhere): Billups / Turiaf / DBrown / A.Carter / Sheldon Williams / Shawne Williams UFAs still available: Roger Mason, Rautins

A Boy Named Seo Dec 16 2011 03:15 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Clips have no real 2 now that they traded Gordon. Talk is Billups starting at SG, which leaves Mo Williams and Eric Bledsoe as the backup PG's. Could def see the Clips moving Mo, and this internet writer sez they're thinking about amnesty'ing him. Baron Davis is an extremely likable guy, but has been overweight when he's healthy enough to play, and his shot selection is fucking maddening. Would be shit for the Knicks if that's what they're lookin at. Oh, and Chris Fucking Paul is a Clipper. A Clipper. Signed, Elated in LA

metirish Dec 16 2011 04:07 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Does Chris Paul share your elation?

A Boy Named Seo Dec 16 2011 04:27 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

He acts like he does, and going to the Clippers should actually be a good thing. Like, they could be pretty good. Serious.

Vic Sage Dec 18 2011 08:12 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

In their first pre-season game, KNICKs beat NETs 92-83. As you would expect, everybody was sloppy, inconsistent and easily gassed. The starters mostly played 20-25 minutes. Most impressive was rookie Iman Shumpert, whose athleticisim and all-around game was on display off the bench. He scored 16 on 6-11 shooting, with a couple assists, steals and blocks (and turnovers) showcasing his range of skills. I know its just a pre-season game, where he was mostly playing against NETS backups but still. They may have less of a need for a wing scorer off the bench than i thought. but to put it in context, Balkman scored 20, and that'll happen again when the moon turns blue, so lets not get too excited. still, just watching Iman play fills me with hope. He's graceful, powerful and seems to know what he's doing out there. I think they found a real player. On one sequence, Iman rushed back on defense, picked up Deron Williams at midcourt, stayed in front of him as Deron brought the ball in closer, then swiped the ball quick as an eye-blink (or "I"-blink), raced the length of the court before anybody looked up, and launched himself toward the basket from the free-throw line, ending with a sweetly understated finger-roll at the basket. Better still, he then raced back on defense (despite not a single Nets player in the vicinity yet) without stopping to flex, pose or talk trash. The I Man. Comin' soon to a Garden near you.

Vic Sage Dec 18 2011 09:30 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Baron Davis signing imminent. He's getting $2.5m/1yr. He'll be out for 2 months, but could be useful down the stretch and into the playoffs. With Knicks PG situation, it's worth taking a flyer on him. So roster is set. final 15: starters: Douglas / Fields / Anthony / Stoudemire / Chandler rotation: Bibby / Shumpert / Balkman / Jeffries Bench: Harrellson, Green, Hunter IR: Jordan, Davis (back), Walker (groin)

Vic Sage Dec 19 2011 08:38 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

apparently, the roster is NOT set. The rumor is the Knicks are about to sign Steve Novak, just waived by Spurs. He's a 6'-10" 3-pt shooter, with virtually no other skills. I suppose he'll take a roster spot from one of the D-Leaguers, either Devin Green or Chris Hunter. I'll assume Green, since Hunter is better.

Vic Sage Dec 22 2011 03:35 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Knicks beat Nets again, 88-82. D was again strong; offense ran thru Melo, mostly, who did a nice job passing. TDouglas was useless til the end of the 3rd, then started hitting shots and getting involved. Iman wasn't the force he was in game 1, but still showed defensive intensity and athleticism. Josh Harrellson becoming more of a factor, which i am happy about. today, Knicks released both D-Leaguers, Hunter and Green, leaving 1 open roster spot, and knicks still have the "room exception" ($2.5m x 2yrs) available, so there may be 1 more move before the season starts on sunday. starters: Douglas / Fields / Anthony / Stoudemire / Chandler rotation: Bibby / Shumpert / Balkman-Walker-Novak / Harrellson-Jeffries Bench: Jeffries, Jordan, Novak IR: Davis (back), Walker (groin), ______

Vic Sage Dec 25 2011 08:26 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

opening day, Xmas against the Celtics. Knicks win 106-104, in a game they would have lost last year. They dominated in the 1st half, gave it all back and then some in a mistake-prone 3rd-early 4thQ, then came back and won it on late free throws by Melo. for a recap: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap;_ylt= ... 2011122518 The only down side: Iman Shumpert sprained an MCL, out 2-4 weeks. With Baron Davis out, and Bibby hurt, too, they have literally no backup PGs now and are thin at SG too, with only Walker to back up Fields. They still have an open roster spot, so how about the just-waived Nate Robinson making a NYKomeback? I'd be glad to see him back. He was always fun if rarely smart. starters: Douglas / Fields / Anthony / Stoudemire / Chandler rotation: ______ ? / Walker/ Balkman / Novak / Harrellson Bench: Jordan, Bibby (back) IR: Davis (back), Shumpert (Knee), Jeffries (Hamstring)

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 26 2011 01:37 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

I actually watched that game -- first NBA game I'd watched in years and years, and a lot of fun! Too bad about Shumpert, he looked like an exciting addition.

A Boy Named Seo Dec 26 2011 01:59 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Was certain the Knicks were gonna gift that one away, Rondo was phenomenal, eh. Not sure they're better than the C's w/ Pierce, but who knows what these teams will look like in a couple months. While Baron equally excited and frustrated the crap out of me, he might thrive in an environment where he's needed & the team is good, assuming he's healthy-ish and not too fat. He looked pumped up on the bench, at least. East is so tough, though. Hard to see one of the Heat / Bulls not be the top dawg, no matter what. #GoBulls #EffLeBron

Nymr83 Dec 27 2011 08:00 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Definitely the highlight of my unsuccessful trip to Atlantic City as I got to see the whole game sitting at the tables and later infront of a slot machine, Knicks might be really relevant this year as the fucking Jets season is practically over and I'm sure the Knicks can manage to hold my attention come March/April this year given the state of the Mets

Nymr83 Dec 27 2011 10:21 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

According to his twitter page, Knicks have signed Jeremy Lin.. I haven't seen it anywhere else yet.

A Boy Named Seo Dec 27 2011 12:23 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Yeah, I guess they did. Never heard of Jeremy Lin. Harvard grad on his 3rd team in 9 days, and per ESPN, the "NBA's first Asian-American player since 1947" (there was NBA in 1947??).

Nymr83 Dec 29 2011 08:22 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

TNT will cut out of this game to give us the Knicks even if the other isnt over right????

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 29 2011 09:14 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Nymr83 wrote: TNT will cut out of this game to give us the Knicks even if the other isnt over right???? The way they finished last night... are you sure you want that? (Damn, I love me some Kevin Durant. He's like a spider with a charming grin and the world's loveliest jumpshot.)

Nymr83 Dec 29 2011 09:21 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

This is the first NBA game i've managed to watch since i managed to get an HD box (i've had the HD tv over a year but i'm lazy) I'm already sick of the anouncer saying "meta world peace" all the time, call him ron artest.

Nymr83 Dec 30 2011 08:31 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Fuck the Knicks keeping me up for a loss But really, fuck TNT and the NBA... This game ended around 1:30 EST after the start got delayed 20 minutes so that TNT could finish showing another game. NBA needs to learn from the NFL... Start the game promptly at 1030, cut to it in the NY and LA markets, and let other markets join the coverage when the previous game ends. Its not hard, and these west coast games end too late already without a delay created entirely for TV.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 30 2011 10:44 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

So, it turns out not having, y'know, guards is a bit of a detriment to offensive effectiveness and defensive cohesion. Who knew? I'm as big a Knick fan as anyone, but not to the exclusion of experiencing other good basketball. I would rather see the ends of many, many out-of-market games-- especially if they come in shapes similar to the OKC-Dallas-- than the first quarter of a regular-season Knick game.

metirish Dec 30 2011 10:51 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Seriously, I think all NBA games should start in the fourth quarter with five minutes on the clock and with the score tied at 90.

Vic Sage Dec 30 2011 12:10 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Irish, that's pretty much the way it works now anyway.

Nymr83 Jan 01 2012 06:46 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Nice win against the Kings, put it away early... With Stoudemire out, 33 mins for Anthony, only 24 for Chandler, and Harrelson ate 38 minutes... Getting the primary guys a bit of a rest while still winning a game is going to be key in this condensed season

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 01 2012 08:59 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Sure, it's the Kings, but Harrelson looked like David Lee with an outside shot for the first half (14 and 12 for the game). Frankly, he looked better on the boards than Stoudamire has at any point so far this year.

Nymr83 Jan 01 2012 09:31 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Yeah, its the Kings, but this what you need to do against a team like the Kings if you want to contend. Beating them 101-98 with all your starters playing 40 minutes is what a mediocre team would do, this is the result (in terms of score but more so rest for starters) that a contender needs.

Vic Sage Jan 02 2012 09:56 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

I like me some Big Country Harrellson! He's got some Bill Laimbeer in his game. Did anybody else notice how much more fluid the offense ran without Stats and Melo taking turns dominating the ball? 6 guys were in double figures. Amare, until you can figure out how to be on the court with Melo, take your time getting back. And, while you're out, kick Jeffries in the shins for me. The last thing i want is Jared "there is absolutely nothing i can do on a basketball court" Jeffries coming back and taking minutes from Harrellson. Also, we picked up a Harvard point guard in Jeremy Lin, for depth. But if he's so smart, how did he rack up 4 fouls in less than 4 minutes against the Kings? Anyway, I'd rather see him out there than Bibby. Bibby is shot, and no longer has one. starters: Douglas / Fields / Anthony / Harrellson / Chandler rotation: Bibby / Walker/ Balkman / Novak / Jordan Bench: Lin, Stoudemire (ankle) IR: Jeffries (Hamstring), Shumpert (Knee), Davis (back)

Nymr83 Jan 02 2012 09:32 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

A loss to the Raptors as the Knicks fall too far behind in the 1st half and cant come all the way back. Walker/Field stood out as particularly useless at SG tonight.

Vic Sage Jan 04 2012 09:09 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

nate robinson just signed with the warriors. he must've really pissed off D'Antoni to be passed over for Jeremy Lin, despite our pressing need for a scoring guard who can handle the ball.

Vic Sage Jan 04 2012 01:53 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Now that Roger Mason has signed with the Wizards, Andy Rautins is the last FA from last season's Knick team still unsigned. I'm just saying. At least he knows everybody's name. But Jeremy Lin? WTF?

Nymr83 Jan 04 2012 07:32 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Non-suckitude might not have been the best title for this thread as the Knicks look like garbage considering they are playing the Bobcats. I'm going to regret watching the 4th quarter instead of getting to sleep early

Kong76 Jan 06 2012 07:25 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

*phew*

Frayed Knot Jan 07 2012 07:34 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

That one would have been bad seeing as how the Wizards may just battle the Indy Colts for fewest wins by a professional team season.

Nymr83 Jan 07 2012 08:32 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

its a Win, but not at all encouraging for the Knicks. Lets hope the ugly wins help with seeding when the team actually starts playing well.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 07 2012 08:38 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

"When?"

Nymr83 Jan 07 2012 08:58 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Knicks rolled the Pistons up and smoked them tonight! Another nice night (and a start!) for Iman Shumpert. 7 assists from Anthony who wasn't a black hole with the ball tonight, and a good job all around... Can they turn it into a streak, though?

Vic Sage Jan 09 2012 10:16 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Shumpert and Harrellson -- me likey our rooks. Both are hardnosed, aggressive on defense, surprisingly effective on offense. The next move to make is put Melo at the 2 and let Balkman play over Fields. He can't shoot either, but at least his tenacious D leads to rebounds, blocks and TOs. Then, you can bring Fields, Douglas, Walker and Harrellson in as a 2nd unit, with either Melo or Amare, and not lose much scoring punch. starters: Shumpert / Fields / Anthony / Stoudemire / Chandler rotation: Bibby / Walker / Balkman / Novak / Harrellson Bench: Jordan / Lin IR: Jeffries (Hamstring), Douglas (shoulder), Davis (back)

Nymr83 Jan 09 2012 10:48 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Rematch with the Bobcats tonight, its a "big game" considering the tough schedule ahead (@memphis, @okc).

Vic Sage Jan 09 2012 02:16 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

it's time to smack the `Cats. I'd like to see some Kemba Walker action, though.

Nymr83 Jan 09 2012 07:36 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Knicks are really trying here, they lead 74-69 with 8 mins to go int the 4th... All the starters are at 30 mins played already and the bench has THREE points combined all night. They'd better hold on to win because they've expended a precious commodity tonight- rest.

Nymr83 Jan 09 2012 08:17 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Knicks drain their free-throws in another excruciatingly long final minute of the game, a 91-87 victory. Next up: Philadelphia, followed by the diffcult trip to Memphis and Oklahoma City

Vic Sage Jan 10 2012 08:21 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Philly is real good so far this year. Follow that up with road games in Memphis and OKC, and this is gonna be a tough stretch of road. Shumpert will really be tested now. starters: Shumpert / Fields / Anthony / Stoudemire / Chandler rotation: Bibby / Douglas / Walker / Harrellson Bench: Balkman / Novak / Lin IR: Jordan / Jeffries (Hamstring) / Davis (back)

Nymr83 Jan 12 2012 06:13 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

4 in a row!! Another Josh Harrelson night with 13 off the bench, nice that the Knicks found someone in the 2nd round!

Vic Sage Jan 12 2012 08:37 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

nice to see them win with team defense, even when rookie Iman has a crappy game and the offense was largely stagnant. And i've got to settle on a nickname for Jorts Big Country Laimbeer Jr. How about "Buddy"?

Nymr83 Jan 12 2012 09:41 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

D'antoni didn't seem all that enthusiastic about the defense in post-game press conference, saying something like 'we won't win if [the score] is in the 70's' Knicks really going away from his brand of basketball with Chandler signing and Shumpert pick, is he destined not to be the coach next year?

Vic Sage Jan 12 2012 09:51 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

one can only hope.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 12 2012 10:42 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Vic Sage wrote: nice to see them win with team defense, even when rookie Iman has a crappy game and the offense was largely stagnant. And i've got to settle on a nickname for Jorts Big Country Laimbeer Jr. How about "Buddy"? Something about "Cracker Barrel" calls to me.

Vic Sage Jan 12 2012 12:53 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

ooooh, i like that!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 12 2012 01:27 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

He grew up in the Midwest, came out of Kentucky, and the shorts/baggy jersey thing gives him a sort-of cylindrical look, doesn't it?

Vic Sage Jan 13 2012 02:03 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

practically onomatopoetic! Well, Cracker Barrel had another decent game last night, in the loss to Memphis -- 8pts (on 5 shots) with 7 rebs in 28m. But Shumpert, on the other hand, had another shitty game, scoring 12pts on 20 (!) shots, with 3 assists and 6 (!) turnovers. TD Tony Douglas went 3-13 off the bench, so he didn't help much either. But Walker added 14 points in 21 minutes, playing for the injured Melo. But the Knicks don't have the depth to overcome Melo's injury and Stats' early foul trouble. And with a rookie PG, who is a SG playing out of position, there are going to be more nights like this. I like Iman alot, but there is a reason he was available at the bottom of the first round. He is wonderfully athletic, intense, bold and aggressive, but he'll make some head-shaking decisions with the ball and his shot is incredibly erratic. I can't wait for Baron Davis to get back, so Shump can move over to the SG slot, and send the incredible shrinking Landry Fields to the bench. In the meantime, if Melo is out for any length of time, i hope they let the energetic Mr. Balkman get some minutes.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 13 2012 08:43 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Shumpert took something like 15 or 16 of those shots in the first half, too. Can't say I'm terribly enamored with how D'Antoni reacted; why Shumpy wasn't yanked/read the riot act before things got out of control-- about half were REALLY ill-advised shots-- I don't know.

Vic Sage Jan 16 2012 04:26 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

lost to the Magic on MLK day, with more bad shooting by everybody. Orlando went nuts on 3pters so it wasn't really the defense's fault. But the lack of ball smarts is really starting to hurt the Bockers. There's talk of Davis coming back to practice next week. It can't come too soon. starters: Shumpert / Fields / Anthony / Stoudemire / Chandler rotation: Bibby / Douglas / Walker / Jeffries / Harrellson Bench: Balkman / Novak / Jordan IR: Lin / Davis (back) * * By the way, when did the rules change, to allow 13 guys on the active roster?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 16 2012 04:40 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

New CBA apparently mandates a "minimum" of 13 (12-plus-an-inactive) and allows for 14 (13-plus-an-inactive).

Nymr83 Jan 16 2012 06:12 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Magic shot 17-35 from 3-point-land, getting beat from down thewre sucks because the Knicks looked good on defense (except those open looks) and tolerable on offense for 3 quarters... then whoops, Anthony turns into the 1-man show late but cant get it done

Vic Sage Jan 20 2012 10:28 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Knicks lose to Phoenix 91-88, 4th L in a row, and D'antoni declares the team in crisis mode. http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2012011818 They've been OK on "D", but haven't gotten over 100 points during their recent losing streak. the team is built around Melo and Stats, and they've both sucked lately. And they also get nothing from their bench, since, Walker's hurt, TD continues to be bad and, as i feared, Jeffries has been taking Cracker Barrel's minutes since his return from the IR. on a lighter note, there has been a Landry Fields sighting. He popped up with a solid game for a change, teaming with Shumpert to give us a surprisingly effective backcourt for one night. And chandler dominated the boards with 17 rebs. The Baron Davis watch continues...

TheOldMole Jan 20 2012 04:03 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Anything new on Time Warner - MSG?

Nymr83 Jan 20 2012 04:08 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

TheOldMole wrote: Anything new on Time Warner - MSG? No, but on the bright side all you are missing right now is a 4 game losing streak The Knicks tricked me into thinking they'd be good this year and I'm mad that I fell for it.

TheOldMole Jan 20 2012 04:51 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Less of a consolation if you're a Rangers fan.

Nymr83 Jan 20 2012 05:29 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

TheOldMole wrote: Less of a consolation if you're a Rangers fan. Did you call TW to demand restitution?

Nymr83 Jan 20 2012 05:33 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

anyone watching Knicks? I love Frazier's jacket... Bernard King doing TV now too?

Nymr83 Jan 20 2012 06:49 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Knicks looked ok in the first half, keep it up guys! Meanwhile in Miami last night, we have an EDDY CURRY sighting! first game action for him in 2 years. Watch him finally be useful and help the motherfucking heat in limited minutes.

Nymr83 Jan 20 2012 07:40 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Knicks getting destroyed in the 2nd half, booooo!!!

Ceetar Jan 20 2012 08:07 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

when are you guys going to change the title of this thread?

metirish Jan 20 2012 08:12 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Awful to watch , not just the Knicks but the whole league, you know the Knicks season is for shit when the talk is all about Nash coming next season, always someone coming the next season to make things better.

Nymr83 Jan 20 2012 10:35 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

the 2nd oldest player in the entire league is the savior now? yikes.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 20 2012 11:35 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

The interior D's been pretty good. The perimeter D? Good for about half the game, and nonexistent the rest of the time. Frustrating, since that's supposedly where this backcourt excels, no? Melo may be my least favorite "superstar" in the league to watch.

Frayed Knot Jan 21 2012 06:51 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

metirish wrote: Awful to watch , not just the Knicks but the whole league, you know the Knicks season is for shit when the talk is all about Nash coming next season, always someone coming the next season to make things better. The Knicks usually seem to fall victim to that 'one missing piece' line of thinking, and often their sights turn to the aging star well past his prime. Getting Nash next year would fit perfectly into that scenario. Check the records - both the Knicks' and Denver's - since the Carmelo trade. It's not pretty for New Yorkers.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 21 2012 09:51 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Even leaving the results aside... apart from Chandler, Cracker Barrel, and the occasional spark of life from Shumpert, I'm not even enjoying looking at this.

Vic Sage Jan 23 2012 12:24 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

and now Cracker Barrel has cracked his wrist; out 6+ weeks. http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ycn-10869295 so that's one less fun thing to watch on this team.

Nymr83 Jan 23 2012 01:04 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

This sucks, he was fun to watch

Nymr83 Jan 25 2012 04:53 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Baron Davis could debut tonight or Saturday!

Kong76 Jan 26 2012 07:19 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

I would wear this on a tee shirt if anyone wants to buy me one:

Nymr83 Jan 27 2012 09:09 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

We can make that the team shirt when we put together the Cranepool Forum basketball team!

metirish Feb 06 2012 08:33 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Amare Stoudemire's brother dies

Centerfield Feb 06 2012 09:21 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Awful. Obviously one shouldn't jump to conclusions, and we should wait until details come out, but you figure high rate of speed, no seat belt, 1:42 a.m. and you can't help but wonder if he had a few too many.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 06 2012 08:29 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

On-court, meanwhile... with Stoudamire out and Carmelo hobbled just after the tip (groin strain?), the Knicks won again. AGAIN, it was The Jeremy Lin Show, as the former 13th man put up 28 points, 8 assists, and 2 steals (along with 8 TOs-- 5 of which came down the stretch, with a growing Knick lead); plus, he had the inside-outside game working-- he found Steve Novak on kick-outs off penetration to the tune of 19 points on 9 shots. AGAIN, Tyson Chandler and Jared Jeffries (!) provided tough interior defense. AGAIN, Landry Fields looked better as a 3 that doesn't get the ball much than as a 2 that does. AGAIN, Shumpert looked active and efficient off the ball at the 2. Kill me now-- I'm not sure it's getting much better than this with this team.

Nymr83 Feb 06 2012 09:05 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

its weird, because they'll never beat the GOOD teams with this roster unless Stoudemire and Anthony somehow learn to play well at the same time together, but they show flashes with one or both absent. Still need to see ALOT more before I'm convinced Lin is anything. If Jeffries is playing good D thats really all you need out of him.

Vic Sage Feb 10 2012 11:09 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

i'd prefer to see Balkman rather than Walker getting minutes at SF while Melo is out. Balkman plays tenacious D, and is active on the boards, and runs the floor well. If Walker is just settling for taking 3s, he's virtually useless. Lin's emergence has buried TDouglas completely. I'm not sure that's such a great idea. I know he's been total shiite this season, but I'd rather see him get minutes than Mike "i've got nuthin left" Bibby.

Nymr83 Feb 11 2012 07:46 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Bibby might as well get cut if Davis ever makes it back. LINSANITY continues!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 11 2012 02:58 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Vic Sage wrote: Lin's emergence has buried TDouglas completely. I'm not sure that's such a great idea. I know he's been total shiite this season, but I'd rather see him get minutes than Mike "i've got nuthin left" Bibby. I'm half-expecting D'Angelo Barksdale to pop up at a D'Antoni postgame conference one of these nights, screaming: "Where's Douglas? WHERE THE FUCK IS DOUGLAS?" (If you don't get that... you really should.)

Frayed Knot Feb 11 2012 05:15 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

I don't get it, but that's OK because the half of the Lakers game I watched Friday night represents approx 1/2 of b-ball more than I've watched over the last number of years. Good game and Lin was def fun to watch, particularly at home and while the spotlight is on him so brightly. I was sure those three consecutive bad passes in a row plus the string of missed FTs were going to doom the Knicks down the stretch and ruin it all but fortunately most of the Lakers couldn't hit shit either. And one more side observation: Kobe is real good. Now I know that one is already the early leader in the DUH!! statement of the decade contest but, although I know Kobe is great, I know it mainly from hearing so often how great he is while rarely taking the trouble to see it for myself. But after, what is it now?, like 16 seasons in the league, with all that post-season & Olympic time piled on, plus getting into basketball middle, if not old, age, it's stunning to see how quick he still is off the dribble, getting into the air, getting shots off, etc. Like I said: stupid observation. But it also reminds me that sometimes we get almost dulled into complacency by a lengthy career to the point where we take the aging generation for granted while everyone looks to the next crop of stars. I remember watching Lemiuex's first game back after his health-caused retirement and expecting to see nothing special. It took until his 2nd shift to make things obvious that he was the best player on the ice and it wasn't even close.

Nymr83 Feb 11 2012 08:28 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

five straight wins for the knicks! great games by Shumpert and Novak! Lin gets the job done, though with an uncharacteristic 33% shooting, he still gets to 20 pts and 7 assists Rubio made a really bad dumb play at the end

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 12 2012 10:16 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Frayed Knot wrote: I don't get it. It's a riff on a famous "Wire" moment. Frayed Knot wrote: And one more side observation: Kobe is real good. Now I know that one is already the early leader in the DUH!! statement of the decade contest but, although I know Kobe is great, I know it mainly from hearing so often how great he is while rarely taking the trouble to see it for myself. But after, what is it now?, like 16 seasons in the league, with all that post-season & Olympic time piled on, plus getting into basketball middle, if not old, age, it's stunning to see how quick he still is off the dribble, getting into the air, getting shots off, etc. Like I said: stupid observation. But it also reminds me that sometimes we get almost dulled into complacency by a lengthy career to the point where we take the aging generation for granted while everyone looks to the next crop of stars. I remember watching Lemiuex's first game back after his health-caused retirement and expecting to see nothing special. It took until his 2nd shift to make things obvious that he was the best player on the ice and it wasn't even close. In part, it's because he's an elite talent, with ridiculous athleticism (he's one of the few guys who stars in "cross-training" Nike ads who you suspect COULD dominate in soccer, or football, or the triathlon, if he had chosen to work on one of those). Perhaps in larger part, it's because he-- like Jordan, Peyton Manning, and a few others-- keeps working on his game, despite being having a decade-and-a-half in the league. He's actually turned some of those early weaknesses (footwork on post-up, defensive positioning, and his long-range fadeaway) into strengths; he's a basketball geek, and it's made him maybe the most guileful player I've seen on a court since MJ or Bird.

Nymr83 Feb 14 2012 07:37 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

YOU CANT STOP THE KNICKS!!!!

Kong76 Feb 14 2012 07:40 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Unbelievable! They didn't deserve to win, with all the turn overs and rotten free-throw shooting ... but that was a really freakin' sweet finishing shot by Lin.

metirish Feb 14 2012 08:16 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Is Jared Jeffries the team spokesman? , kidding but he could be......

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 14 2012 09:04 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Here's the thing, though-- until tonight, I wasn't worried about Melo's return. Until tonight. Stoudamire was dead weight on the defensive rotations-- as usual-- and almost-singlehandedly stilted the offensive flow... and he's the one who's ostensibly non-disruptive to reintegrate into this changed team.

Edgy MD Feb 17 2012 01:23 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

MSG-Time Warner standoff over. Maybe just in time for the end of Lin and the return of Anthony.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 17 2012 02:40 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Also, J. R. Smith, come on down to the Knicks bench (for the Mid-Level Exception). Nice knowing you, Renaldo Balkman.

Kong76 Feb 17 2012 08:37 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

And the Time Warner Curse has begun.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 17 2012 09:23 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

4-24 from the arc (2-19 for people whose names don't rhyme with "Beremy Pin"). There's a reason they got JR Smith.

Nymr83 Feb 19 2012 10:45 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Knicks on ABC in a few minutes, if they shoot like that again I may be playing video games by halftime

Nymr83 Feb 19 2012 11:20 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Does Lin get hit too much or does he have a little Rodman in him? that play just now didnt look nearly hard enough for the way he fell down JR Smith makig his Knick debut drains a 3!

Nymr83 Feb 19 2012 11:22 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Smith 2-2 from downtown!

Nymr83 Feb 19 2012 11:27 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

3 for 3! Smithsanity?

Nymr83 Feb 19 2012 11:28 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

and now Lin drains one!

Nymr83 Feb 19 2012 12:29 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

umm... halftime is over, someone tell the knicks' defense to get out of the locker room!

Nymr83 Feb 19 2012 01:06 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Novak is now on fire! Shumpert has an almost blackhole "i will shoo if i touch itt" feel today Lin drains another!

Kong76 Feb 19 2012 01:12 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Too much celebrating, way too early. This ain't the Mavs first rodeo, guys.

Kong76 Feb 19 2012 01:31 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

I am tripping over myself to get on this bandwagon. I forgot how much fun it is to have a good Knicks team again. Speechless.

metirish Feb 19 2012 01:31 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Kong76 wrote: I am tripping over myself to get on this bandwagon. I forgot how much fun it is to have a good Knicks team again. Speechless. this , the Knicks are fun again, and good....wow

Nymr83 Feb 19 2012 01:34 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Thoughts on Mike Tirico and Hubie Brown? I wish they'd broadcast all our games.

Edgy MD Feb 19 2012 01:51 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Hubie Brown is the Bobby Valentine of basketball.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 19 2012 01:52 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Whoever's directing for ABC has done a good job of roping in Hubie, who's good-to-great with analytic insight, but occasionally ventures pretty far afield when left to his own devices. And Tirico's generally very solid, if unmemorable (for a PBP guy, a far better way to err). Still... you'd throw away Breen and Clyde for that? Thaaaaaa's cold, Namor.

Nymr83 Feb 19 2012 02:23 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

I cant stand Frazier sometimes.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 19 2012 02:32 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Fair enough. I'm at the point where his more... em... self-indulgent stuff just rolls off my back. Plus, when he's having an off-moment, he's mildly irritating. When Hubie does so, he says things that are just plain wrong (Jason Kidd-as-"high-percentage-three-point-shooter," e.g.) and poorly serve the uninitiated viewer.

Nymr83 Feb 19 2012 03:03 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

i guess i just get tired of hearing how everyone is "perculating" every time they hit 2 shots in a row. i wasnt fact-checking Brown but i'll readily concede that point if he said that about Kidd.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 19 2012 03:52 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

About something more serious... I really hope Tyson Chandler doesn't break before season's end. He's the team's semi-secret MVP.

Kong76 Feb 19 2012 06:26 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Love Clyde, he's too cool to even try and defend him with my Swiss-cheese D. Percolating in the paint, can't get enough!

Frayed Knot Feb 19 2012 09:08 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

The thing about Clyde's act is that it's not an act at all but something purely him as opposed to some sort of lame & forced Berman-esque schtick. That exact same routine wouldn't work with anyone else and it would even fall flat for him if he did it anywhere but NYC where those who grew up with him know it's not an act.

Kong76 Feb 20 2012 08:00 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Frayed Knot Feb 20 2012 10:05 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

I mean, who else could sub-title their autobiography: The Guide to Basketball and Cool

Nymr83 Feb 21 2012 06:03 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

That was an all-around horrible effort. Stoudemire seemingly can't jump anymore (and wow does he get beat on D), the team didn't gel at all (chemistry = GONE) and how about HITTING FUCKING FREE THROWS? The crowd cheered Lin a lot, and a nice halftime welcome for everyone's favorite ex-knick Herb Williams! John Starks was there and presented an award to someone. They introduced him as "Knicks Legend John Starks", which made me laugh. "Presenting the award for xxxx Mets Legend Rico Brogna!". That how that felt. And maybe we can retire Starks' number? He wore "2-18" right? Kris Humphries was booed LOUDLY every time his name was spoken, he touched the ball, or he was seen getting off the bench. Wtf did this guy do? You'd think he was Reggie Miller! We're booing a guy for getting divorced by a bullshit celebrity?

metirish Feb 21 2012 06:09 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Nymr83 wrote: That was an all-around horrible effort. Stoudemire seemingly can't jump anymore (and wow does he get beat on D), the team didn't gel at all (chemistry = GONE) and how about HITTING FUCKING FREE THROWS? The crowd cheered Lin a lot, and a nice halftime welcome for everyone's favorite ex-knick Herb Williams! John Starks was there and presented an award to someone. They introduced him as "Knicks Legend John Starks", which made me laugh. "Presenting the award for xxxx Mets Legend Rico Brogna!". That how that felt. And maybe we can retire Starks' number? He wore "2-18" right? Kris Humphries was booed LOUDLY every time his name was spoken, he touched the ball, or he was seen getting off the bench. Wtf did this guy do? You'd think he was Reggie Miller! We're booing a guy for getting divorced by a bullshit celebrity? horrible is right, after the initial energy the team just went into the shitter, there were times I wondered if Stoudemire was even playing, couldn't understand booing Humphries either but then I saw something about Lin dating Kim Kardashian?, still ,it's stoopid to boo the guy, he's not half bad either. The Nets look like a fun team to watch, that rookie is good.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 21 2012 01:37 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Starks did a lot more than 2-for-18 in his Knick career, Ventypants.

metirish Feb 21 2012 01:39 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Starks did a lot more than 2-for-18 in his Knick career, Ventypants. Starks is the Beltran of the Knicks.

Nymr83 Feb 21 2012 03:30 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Starks did a lot more than 2-for-18 in his Knick career, Ventypants. As long as I'm venting.. HAKEEM HACKED HIM!!! FUCKIN REF!

Ashie62 Feb 22 2012 09:17 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Knicks make like work of Atlanta who is supposed to be decent. 9 more assists for JL..

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 22 2012 11:33 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Atlanta was missing its two best players (Horford and Johnson), and, since starting 16-6, the team has been backsliding due to injuries/lackluster play for the last three weeks or so.

Vic Sage Feb 27 2012 10:27 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

After getting exposed by the intense defensive pressure Miami put on him, Lin needs to show better ball control than he has to date for the Linsanity to continue. Chalmers and Cole aren't exactly all-stars, but their fullcourt pressure on Lin may have offered a blueprint for taking him out of the Knicks offense. Now we host the mediocre Cavaliers to start the 2nd half, with rising star PG Kyrie Erving. Lets see how Lin responds. In the meantime, Stoudemire looks 100 years old, with no explosiveness around the rim and a total matador on defense. I would just as soon see the returning Jorts/Big Country/Cracker Barrel at the PF slot, with Amare coming off the bench, since Amare has yet to show any effectiveness when on the floor with Melo. He might be better served by being instant O off the bench, and dominating against other teams' 2nd units. Of course, its not going to happen, but i'm just saying. welcome back, cracker barrel!

Vic Sage Feb 27 2012 10:31 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

[u:3lxp1qwm]starters:[/u:3lxp1qwm] Lin / Fields / Anthony / Stoudemire / Chandler [u:3lxp1qwm]rotation:[/u:3lxp1qwm] Davis / Smith / Novak / Jeffries / Harrellson [u:3lxp1qwm]Bench:[/u:3lxp1qwm] Bibby / Douglas / Jordan [u:3lxp1qwm]IR: [/u:3lxp1qwm]Shumpert / Walker

Frayed Knot Feb 27 2012 10:43 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Vic Sage wrote: After getting exposed by the intense defensive pressure Miami put on him, Lin needs to show better ball control than he has to date for the Linsanity to continue. And if he fails the whole era will just have to be written off as Temporary Lin-sanity

Kong76 Feb 29 2012 07:37 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Novak needs his own thread.

Vic Sage Feb 29 2012 09:36 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Nice bounce-back game. After playing no D in the 1st half, the `Bockers came out after the intermission and clamped down on the Cavs, catching up to them by the end of the 3rdQ and blowing them out in the 4th. Lin had an excellent game. I was glad to see Shump back, too. He teamed up with Lin for a spectacular late game alley-oop, and its his activity and athleticism on the defensive end that gets this team going. He's like Revis, putting his man on an island. And Novak? Its sick how this guy shoots 3s like other guys shoot FTs. If he could play and D or rebound or SOMETHING, he'd be a star.But as it is, even a 1-dimensional player can have a role.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 29 2012 11:16 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

If Shump's going like he was tonight, and not handling the ball too much... he's my favorite guy to watch on the floor. D'Antoni and his staff have GOT to enjoy watching his efforts on postgame video. And how about the good Baron? And Novak, and the interior defense in the third quarter... man alive, this can be a good team. If this team stays healthy, and it doesn't go two rounds deep in the playoffs, D'Antoni should quit. They've got a surplus of weapons on both ends of the floor, and if he can't figure out how to use 'em...

MFS62 Mar 01 2012 07:11 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Nymr83 wrote: LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Starks did a lot more than 2-for-18 in his Knick career, Ventypants. As long as I'm venting.. HAKEEM HACKED HIM!!! FUCKIN REF! And Starks broke Kenny Anderson's wrist by cutting his legs out from under him while Kenny coming down with a rebound. (He had put his hand down to break his fall) That is the worst kind of cheap shot in the game. It totally changed Kenny's promising career. It was his ball-handling and shooting hand. Later

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 01 2012 09:56 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Oh, geddouttaherewiddat. Anderson put up better numbers in the next couple of seasons and made his lone All-Star appearance AFTER the incident. You want to blame someone for his decline, blame Hardaway (and the bigger points who followed in his wake), swollen Derrick Coleman, and the truck driver who got Petrovic killed.

MFS62 Mar 01 2012 10:00 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Oh, geddouttaherewiddat. Anderson put up better numbers in the next couple of seasons and made his lone All-Star appearance AFTER the incident. You want to blame someone for his decline, blame Hardaway (and the bigger points who followed in his wake), swollen Derrick Coleman, and the truck driver who got Petrovic killed. Thank you for naming the others in that conspiracy. (You forgot the guy on the grassy knoll). But Starks was still a punk. And that was still a punk move. Later

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 01 2012 10:28 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Well, yes. But he was our punk. As were Oakley and Mason.

Edgy MD Mar 01 2012 11:23 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

I go the idea that he wasn't a born thug, but got sucked into a corrupted culture. I think Greg Anthony is usually associated with that sociopathic crew, no?

Vic Sage Mar 01 2012 03:00 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

EWING / OAKLEY / MASON / STARKS / HARPER (+RIVERS, ANTHONY) That was the last Knicks team i loved. "Thugs"? "Thug" is one of those words that depends on POV. for example, one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. a woman might either be pro-choice or a baby killer. Those Knicks were a tough, defensive-minded bunch of warriors that gave no quarter. Or sociopathic thugs who all should have been locked up. Whatever you called them, you better have made sure your health insurance was paid up if you tried to take the ball to the hole against this crew.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 03 2012 07:27 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Wouldn't that be "Linsomnia?" The Knicks were told to drink warm milk or herbal tea or count sheep or even change to firmer mattresses. The doctor, Novak said, gave the players relaxation CDs to help them unwind. "We had a meeting today before practice with a doctor who talked about ways to help you sleep at night," Novak said. "It's like the energy, when we leave, it's like midnight, and you go home and we can't sleep. It's from the fans and the adrenaline. We're having trouble sleeping."

metirish Mar 04 2012 01:45 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

A few minutes left in OT, Celtics up 110-105...figured once the knicks didn't finish this in regulation it would be tough in OT...come on NY

Nymr83 Mar 06 2012 06:32 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

The Knicks have alrready anounced LINcreased ticket prices for next season! Fuck you Dolan!

attgig Mar 07 2012 09:00 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

that was a game of suckitude

Vic Sage Mar 07 2012 10:59 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

on the bright side, Amare had a decent game and actually played pretty good D against Nowitski. And there was a Cracker Barrel sighting! But clearly "Linsanity" has come down to Earth and Anthony has no more clue how to play with him than he does with Amare.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 07 2012 08:45 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

The Knicks are earning this loss to the Spurs tonight with the defensive effort... especially on the interior. (Like Vic and I said a while back, Chandler's maybe the most important guy on this team after Lin-- and much moreso, if Davis is healthy and thriving-- as presently constructed.) But it's a shame this one isn't a hockey game, because Ginobli-- a Stockton-caliber dirty-player-in-the-guise-of-a-choirboy-- kinda needs to get hit in the face in the worst way.

Vic Sage Mar 08 2012 09:02 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

with Chandler and Jeffries BOTH out, they had no interior defense at all, and Parker made the lane his bitch. Cracker Barrel did his best, diving for balls and getting on the offensive glass, but he's not big and quick enough to slow down the Spurs track meet to the hoop. and not fer nuttin' (as they used to say in my neighborhood), but i hate JR Smith. He's a stupid player... erratic, a bad ball-handler, and a bad shot-taker. We already had Novak to hit 3s, so we didn't need this guy, especially not at the expense of a plays-the-right-way guy like Balkman. I know D'antoni hated Balkman's game (cuz he can't shoot) and so wasn't using him anyway, but i'd rather have him on the roster than Smith. Just on the off-chance that, like Lin, Balkman would end up with some desperation minutes (due to injury or ineptitude) and show the kind of relentlessness on D and energy on O that is infectious and noticeably lacking whenever Jeffries and Shumpert are not on the floor. A 2nd unit lineup of Davis-shumpert-balkman-jeffries-Harrelson would have frustrated the shit out of teams and scored off of its defense. Now, with Fields, Smith and Novak as the primary unit coming off the bench, we're bringing in passive shooters with little defensive intensity, along with Jeffries, who has to do it all himself. And yet that unit, when playing with Lin, is still doing better than the Melo/STATs unit, which is totally discombobulated.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 08 2012 09:06 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Can't entirely disagree about Smith... but that's what you buy when you buy him. The one thing I'm pleasantly surprised with about him? He's actually worked a bit on the defensive end-- he's a really active help defender, and reads passing lanes surprisingly well. Cracker Barrel's return is indeed gratifying-- he's got a poor-man's David Lee/Mase thing going with the defense/'bounding/occasional jumpshot, doesn't he?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 14 2012 12:25 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

D'Antoni quits, exploding Internet says.

metirish Mar 14 2012 12:28 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: D'Antoni quits, exploding Internet says. wait, what, he was a genius last month ......what happened? SC= 100

Vic Sage Mar 14 2012 12:51 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

it's true; Dantoni's gone. "mutual decision"... hah! http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=A ... gns_031412 it was inevitable. Dolan wouldn't extend him beyond this year, making him a lame duck head coach, and then undermined him further by bringing in Woodson, ATL's former coach, to be the "defensive guy". So, though apparently liked well enough by the players, he had no respect and when Stats and Melo weren't getting more shots than guys like Lin and Chandler, it was bound to get nasty in the clubhouse. In D'Antoni's system, everybody has the green light in the first 10 seconds, and that was just never going to work with proven stars who want the ball. Now, Woodson will take over and, IMO, Lin will likely become the backup to Davis, who will give Melo and Stats all the touches they can handle, with JR Smith riding shotgun, in a standard half-court set. This means Lin will QB a fiesty 2nd unit, featuring Shump, Fields, Novak and Harrelson (until Jeffries comes back), employing a transitional style and a more democratic approach. I don't know that there's enough time left this season to get it together, but the pieces are there.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 14 2012 01:07 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

So, no more free Mustache rides? Your way might work better, Vic, but there is NO way Lin gets "benched" at this point, after millions and millions of MSG marketing.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 14 2012 05:43 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Oh, and as per David Aldridge: D’Antoni, the source said, had been advocating that the Knicks attempt to trade Anthony to the New Jersey Nets for guard Deron Williams, a deal D’Antoni believed would be beneficial for both franchises. But Dolan categorically declined that request, and the “conflicting visions” between the owner and head coach about Anthony meant there was no way forward. D’Antoni had hoped the Knicks’ inspired and winning play with Lin as the centerpiece — while Anthony and Stoudemire were injured — would convince Dolan the Knicks could win without Anthony. Bringing Williams from the Nets would also have eases (sic) the burden on Lin, D’Antoni believed, allowing Lin to settle into a three-guard rotation. D’Antoni asked for the meeting with Dolan after his relationship with Anthony had deteriorated sharply in recent days. He will be paid the remainder of the $6 million he’s due in this fourth and final year of his $24 million contract.

metirish Mar 14 2012 06:01 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Player power coupled with a dumb fuck like Dolan isn't a winning combination.

Ceetar Mar 14 2012 06:14 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Read some of the Woodson stuff and the quotes seem eerily similar to what Jerry Manuel said on arrival.

MFS62 Mar 14 2012 09:24 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Oh, and as per David Aldridge: D’Antoni, the source said, had been advocating that the Knicks attempt to trade Anthony to the New Jersey Nets for guard Deron Williams, a deal D’Antoni believed would be beneficial for both franchises. But Dolan categorically declined that request, If he pulled off that trade, he would have shown that he is a MUCH better GM than he is a coach. I'm guessing that a key pert of that trade is promising to return Prokorov's children, unharmed. Later

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 14 2012 09:59 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

If Howard isn't headed Netward, then Williams may lean heavily toward opting out... I've heard of a lot worse returns in Williams-Trade-Rumorland (think "Gasol") than Flab 'Melo.

Vic Sage Mar 15 2012 09:10 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Relieved of the burden of D'Antoni, Knicks blow out Blazers by over 40 points.

Nymr83 Mar 18 2012 10:25 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Hey Granger, do those 2 games against the Knicks look "very winnable" now? Fuck you!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 18 2012 10:50 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

It all comes from defense.

TheOldMole Mar 21 2012 05:14 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Woodson ties record for consecutive wins by a new Knick coach, set by Red Holtzman in 1978-79. Does Red in 78-79 really count as a new coach?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 21 2012 09:37 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Nice, gritty pullout of an ugly offensive game. It helped that the Sixers mysteriously refused to foul in the last five seconds after the Knicks inbounded the last time, more or less giving up on the game after Holliday hit a 3-pointer to pull them within three.

metirish Mar 22 2012 08:26 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Nice, gritty pullout of an ugly offensive game. It helped that the Sixers mysteriously refused to foul in the last five seconds after the Knicks inbounded the last time, more or less giving up on the game after Holliday hit a 3-pointer to pull them within three. Collins was really pissed with that carryon, on the replay he was caught hopping mad running down the court......Breen was incredulous on the call........

metirish Mar 27 2012 12:40 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Stoudemire out indefinitely with bulging discs in his back .......Christ. http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketbal ... -1.3624725

Vic Sage Mar 27 2012 12:51 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

yeah, it ain't gettin any easier. Just when Stats was starting to play with his usual force, he goes down. And Lin sat out with a bad knee, and Melo restrained his groin during the game. Plus Jefferies is still out. Yet they still eked one out against the Bucks. which is good. but the DL is definitely feasting on knicks' playoff prospects this year.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 27 2012 01:06 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Yeah, well, good teams overcome that. Hell, the first-place, 40-win Bulls have only had Derrick Rose for about half of those. Part of the REAL problem with the Anthony trade-- never mind the "Antoni didn't want him" stuff-- was that it further concentrated the team's offensive proficiency in fewer, more aged bodies. One of those go out, and you lose a lot more than you do if, say, Wilson Chandler or Gallinari miss some time.

Vic Sage Mar 27 2012 01:21 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

yeah, i'm going to say bullshit on that one. Look, i didn't much care for the Melo trade at the time, and i'm pretty sure i said so. But Melo is 27, not "aged". and we gave up nice, depth-type players (a LOT of them!) for a superstar. the problem wasn't that we traded youth for age. we didn't, particularly. we also traded potential for production. My problem was two-fold: the piece we got really didn't go with the piece we had (Stoudemire), and i didn't see that working. And i don't know that it has yet. and the deal stripped us of all our depth. But this year's moves (a good draft, plus cheap short-term FA pickups) have rebuilt the depth, and with Stats out, Melo is again free to do what he wilst. The key at this point is the Lin/Melo combination working out some good chemistry, with Chandler down low. I also think Jorts will play a useful role in Amare's absence, and Shump, smith, Novak and Fields all being useful complimentary parts. I wish Baron Davis would pick it up; we're still short at the PG position with alot of guys who can play it and none who can play it well, except Lin.

Edgy MD Mar 27 2012 01:31 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

I'm glad Melo restrained his groin. That thing was getting out of hand.

Vic Sage Mar 27 2012 01:43 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

well he's no Wilt Chamberlain. now THERE was a groin that needed restraining.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 27 2012 02:05 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Vic Sage wrote: yeah, i'm going to say bullshit on that one. Look, i didn't much care for the Melo trade at the time, and i'm pretty sure i said so. But Melo is 27, not "aged". and we gave up nice, depth-type players (a LOT of them!) for a superstar. the problem wasn't that we traded youth for age. I said "more aged." And my emphasis wasn't on THAT part of the sentence. But larger point taken. I do think that if you're giving up that level of depth/potential for production, you better be DAMN sure that production's going to travel. Cracker Barrel/Jorts basically plays when Jeffries doesn't. He'll get minutes over the next several weeks-- it'll be instructive to see what he does with them. And as to point play... Davis looked great for stretches last night, and tired as hell at the end, and his stat line resembled Lin's on an iffy night (9 TOs). I like the contrast between his and Lin's styles, actually.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 28 2012 10:35 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Melo: better sans Stoudamire? (Related-- "Knicks: better sans Stoudamire?")

Vic Sage Mar 29 2012 08:50 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

The Knicks have shown me consistently that they're better when those 2 are not on the floor at the same time. The W-L record bears that out. But Stoudemire's extensive injury history indicates, however, that that eventuality will occur less and less often, so the point will be moot, or at least only occasionally relevant. Stats showed last year (and for a brief spurt this year) that, when he's healthy, he can still dominate. But when Melo plays like this -- manning up on D, and driving and dishing and rebounding and scoring from everywhere (rather than dribbling and dribbling and dribbling it til he hoists up an off-balance 3, and then not getting back on D) -- he's better than Stats, and better than most guys not named Kobe & LeBron, and the Knicks are better with him as the focal point. Melo (and the Knicks) would be best served by getting Stats out of his way and just giving him a PG who can get the ball to him and can make his own shot to keep the defense from collapsing on him (i.e, Lin), surrounded by sound defensive players to constantly keep the team's defensive intensity (and therefore Melo's) on high (i.e., shumpert, Chandler and, eventually, Jeffries). Without Stats, i would start Lin / Shumpert / Fields / Melo / Chandler, with a backup unit of Davis / Smith / Novak / Harrellson that can all come gunning off the bench. When Jeffries comes back, I'd start him over Fields (adding Landry to the 2nd unit, expanding the rotation to 10) to give the starting unit more size and defensive presence. When (or IF) Stats ever comes back, I'd try to reduce his load by making him the 6th man, coming in for Jeffries, Chandler and sometimes Melo, minimizing his overlap with Melo to the extent possible without unduly impacting either's overall playing time. This would also necessitate either bumping Jorts out of the rotation entirely or splitting Novak and Smith's backup minutes as designated gunners. Ultimately, if Stats can make it back and be effective, they should trade him. They're stuck with him til then.

metirish Mar 31 2012 05:03 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Lin to have knee surgery , gone for the regular season and back for second round of playoffs if Knicks make it, best case scenario.

Kong76 Mar 31 2012 06:27 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Dow futures down 2.3% for Monday on news of Linsurgery.

Kong76 Apr 03 2012 07:47 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Sorry if I brought down the level of the non-suckitude thread on 3/31 and drove people away. Tonight was just a dreadful loss.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 03 2012 10:32 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Everything about the feel-good-iness of the first three quarters-- offensive flow, a dominant 'Melo, an everything-but-the-kitchen-sink performance from Smith-- inverted in the last one. Just... ugh. Also: Toney Douglas lives?

MFS62 Apr 04 2012 09:08 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

metirish wrote: Lin to have knee surgery , gone for the regular season and back for second round of playoffs if Knicks make it, best case scenario. So, it looks like you guys may have to wait until next season to see if he is the real long-term deal, or if he's just a flash in the wok. Later

Vic Sage Apr 04 2012 10:54 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

well TD lives compared to, you know, NOT living, i suppose. But something has gone terribly wrong with his game and i don't know what it is. They desperately need some quality PG minutes from SOMEBODY, and they ain't getting it from ANYBODY. Last night, ball movement completely stopped in the 4thQ, and they ran out of gas on defense, after terrific 2nd and 3rd Q effort. I bet you could chart the Knicks' W-L record against Melo's scoring and you'd find a negative correlation. The more he dominates the ball, the less likely they are to win, i'm betting.

Vic Sage Apr 04 2012 11:04 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

So, it looks like you guys may have to wait until next season to see if he is the real long-term deal, or if he's just a flash in the wok. Sigh. First of all, this is old news. Secondly, the one upside to Lin's injury was the silencing of the asian puns and references. Third, as to Lin's flashitude, nobody is as good as they are when they're rolling or as bad as when they're slumping, but Lin is a legit NBA point guard and has nothing more to prove in that regard. That being said, he won't be an elite PG until he learns to take better and more consistent care of the ball. Whether he can take the next step will remain to be seen (and the Linsanity was certainly disproportionate to his actual performance after the 7-0 start was over), but management won't (and shouldn't) be spending the summer wondering whether they'll have a PG next year or not. Obviously, if an ELITE one becomes available somehow, that would be nice, but its not necessary to replace Line for the team to succeed.

Vic Sage Apr 04 2012 04:13 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

I bet you could chart the Knicks' W-L record against Melo's scoring and you'd find a negative correlation. The more he dominates the ball, the less likely they are to win, i'm betting. i checked the numbers, out of curiousity, and i'm right. The team's record when he's played to date is 23-23. in the 23 wins, he's averaged 18.7 pts; he's averaged 23.2 points in their losses. When he's scored 30+points, they're 2-6. when he's scored < 20, they're 13-8. His scoring has a negative correlation to Knicks wins. when he's distributing, rebounding, playing defense, and scoring WHEN NEEDED, he's a great player. when he takes over the offense, chucking 3s and driving into traffic, his points go up and knicks wins go down. Yesterday was a textbook case. On the other hand, with Lin, it was the opposite. The Knicks were 8-1 in Lin's first 2 weeks, with him averaging 25pts with 9 assists, mostly without Anthony on the floor. After Anthony's return, the Knicks went 8-9 with Lin at the point, his average falling to 15pts and less than 7 assists. While Lin's game integrated well with Stoudemire, NOBODY'S game works with Melo when he decides he's going to take over the offense, and the Knicks suffer for it. i wonder if he'll ever understand this.

Edgy MD Apr 04 2012 04:41 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Vic Sage wrote: So, it looks like you guys may have to wait until next season to see if he is the real long-term deal, or if he's just a flash in the wok. Sigh. First of all, this is old news. Secondly, the one upside to Lin's injury was the silencing of the asian puns and references. Third, as to Lin's flashitude, nobody is as good as they are when they're rolling or as bad as when they're slumping, but Lin is a legit NBA point guard and has nothing more to prove in that regard. That being said, he won't be an elite PG until he learns to take better and more consistent care of the ball. Whether he can take the next step will remain to be seen (and the Linsanity was certainly disproportionate to his actual performance after the 7-0 start was over), but management won't (and shouldn't) be spending the summer wondering whether they'll have a PG next year or not. Obviously, if an ELITE one becomes available somehow, that would be nice, but its not necessary to replace Line for the team to succeed. I'm glad you wrote it.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 04 2012 05:02 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Vic Sage wrote: So, it looks like you guys may have to wait until next season to see if he is the real long-term deal, or if he's just a flash in the wok. Sigh. First of all, this is old news. Secondly, the one upside to Lin's injury was the silencing of the asian puns and references. Third, as to Lin's flashitude, nobody is as good as they are when they're rolling or as bad as when they're slumping, but Lin is a legit NBA point guard and has nothing more to prove in that regard. That being said, he won't be an elite PG until he learns to take better and more consistent care of the ball. Whether he can take the next step will remain to be seen (and the Linsanity was certainly disproportionate to his actual performance after the 7-0 start was over), but management won't (and shouldn't) be spending the summer wondering whether they'll have a PG next year or not. Obviously, if an ELITE one becomes available somehow, that would be nice, but its not necessary to replace Line for the team to succeed. The primary Lin-related roster question for next year isn't whether he's any good, or-- frankly-- whether he'll get better in the near-term future. It's whether they want to pony up the mid-level salary cap exception for him (assuming he'll take it-- if Williams leaves, the Nets could throw something like 2/26, I think, at Lin), and have a marketable-but-drecky team that basically consists of Melo, Stoudamire, Chandler, Lin, and spare veterans'-minimum parts.

Vic Sage Apr 05 2012 11:08 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Next year's roster has: * Stoudemire - $20m * Anthony - $19.5m * Chandler - $13.5m * Douglas - $2m * Shumpert - $1.7m * JJordan - $0.750m * Harrellson - $0.750m (team option) - JR smith has a player option for $2.5m - Balkman might still be on the books for $1.7m next year They'll probably look to dump or move Douglas in the off-season, and if they could find a taker for Stats, they probably would make that move too, but its unlikely. In any event, based on the $75m payroll the Knicks spent this year, with less than $60m committed so far for next year, they should still have the room to re-sign Lin and Novak and either Smith or Fields (if Smith opts out), and fill out the roster with draft choices / minimum wage guys after that. And a starting lineup of Lin / Shumpert / Anthony / Stoudemire / Chandler would hardly be characterized as "Drecky"; in fact, I'd characterize it as a playoff team.

Nymr83 Apr 08 2012 02:00 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Mets finished the sweep of the Braves while the Knicks were busy squeeking one out in overtime over Chicago! my fingers hurts from hitting "last" so many times on the remote the past 15 minutes

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 09 2012 02:27 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

CARMELO ANTHONY IS A BEING OF MOST PERFECT LIGHT* *Until, y'know, next time he clangs an 18-foot fadeaway at the buzzer

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 12 2012 07:43 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Frenetic, sloppy-fun game last night... and a key win, putting the 'Bockers 2 games up on Milwaukee with 8 to go. With 7th looming as a real possibility, but 6th looking unlikely... who SHOULD the Knicks want to play? Which is the less-bad matchup: Miami or Chicago?

MFS62 Apr 12 2012 07:46 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: CARMELO ANTHONY IS A BEING OF MOST PERFECT LIGHT* I thought there was only one of those, and it was Derek Jeter. Later

Nymr83 Apr 13 2012 03:57 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

MFS62 wrote: LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: CARMELO ANTHONY IS A BEING OF MOST PERFECT LIGHT* I thought there was only one of those, and it was Derek Jeter. Later Melo is a superior defender!

Frayed Knot Apr 13 2012 08:11 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Serious question for youse Knicks fans on the occasion of the beating of those always-tough Wizards tonight: Is making the playoffs all that important? I wouldn't ask this if it were any other sport, but: - the lower seeds virtually never advance in the NBA and certainly don't advance very far - with the sixth spot looking out of reach, you'll get either the Bulls or Heat right away probably followed by the other one in round two should they somehow survive the first - and then there's the whole lottery thing with its possibility (however slight) of moving up (or did Isiah trade next year's pick too?) So, aside from the accomplishment of actually achieving something (even though making the playoff in the winter sports is somewhat akin to making the phone book) plus the minimum two home games to further line Jimmy D's pocket, it hardly seems to me like a do-or-die week ahead.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 13 2012 08:54 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

This will sound nuts, but the Knicks are kind of shaping up as the nightmare matchup for a high seed-- they're just hitting their stride this month (12-4, with all losses coming on the road against top-4 Eastern Conference teams), and have shown the ability to hang around with-- and beat-- any team in the league. If their defense remains right, and they're shooting half-decently from the outside, they've got far more than a puncher's chance of beating either the Bulls or Heat-- who waver in focus, and can look middling or dominant on any given night-- in a series. They match up better against the Bulls (Shumpert on Rose; Anthony on Deng; Fields/Smith on Hamilton; Chandler/Jeffries on the bigs/boxout duty) than the Heat (Shump on Wade and/or the PGs; Anthony on LeBron; Stoudamire or Chandler/Jeffries on Bosh). Plus, Rose will likely be somewhat banged up (if not pretty limited) and Luol Deng's wrist has started to flare up. They also have more of a chance than you'd think of moving up to sixth; the Magic are in free fall, losing again tonight to allow the Knicks (who hold a tiebreak over them) to creep within three games with seven left.

Nymr83 Apr 13 2012 09:17 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

making the playoffs matters. making the first round competitive (6 games) means more. its baby steps, just out-do last year and i'lol be happy. next year they need to get out of the first round (which might mean earning at least the 5 seed to not face chi/mia) as far as seeding, the Knicks are 3 back of Orlando for the 7 seed AND 3 back of Boston for the Atlantic division winner (which gaurantees you at least the 4 seed, notice how Boston has a worse record than 5 seed Atlanta right now) Boston, though, plays the horrible Nets and Bobcats before a game at MSG. if the Knicks win that one then Boston has Orlando, Atlanta, Miami and Milwaukee remainging, all of whom could care about those games for seeding or playoffs (in MIL's case) The Knicks meanwhile have only Miami before Boston. then they play the Nets, Cavs, Hawks, Clippers, and Bobcats. Assuming both teams win their game against the Nets and the Knicks beat Boston, they'd be 2-2 head to head and finish with the same division record, but Boston would in all liklihood have a better conference record. So the Knicks chances of catching Boston arent great as they essentially need to make up an additional game since they'll lose the tiebreaker

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 14 2012 07:32 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

As of last night, they're IN seventh by a hair (after a loss to the Nets by the crumbling Sixers). They're chasing Orlando-- who's missing Howard for the near future-- for SIXTH (and a likely matchup against the Pacers... whom they've beaten twice, and led handily in all three games).

Nymr83 Apr 14 2012 07:35 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Yes sorry, I meant to say 3 back from both Orlando and Boston

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 28 2012 09:41 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Well, that was a fun season!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 01 2012 03:22 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

The Knicks apparently break in case of emergency.

Kong76 May 03 2012 07:33 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

And a lone bugle on a hill in the distance starts to blow Taps.

Nymr83 May 04 2012 11:31 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

batmagadanleadoff May 06 2012 12:47 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

On Pro Basketball Recognizing the Limitations of Meloball By HOWARD BECK Published: May 4, 2012 Alone on a podium late Thursday night, Carmelo Anthony wrapped himself in comfortable catchphrases and verbal deflections. The Miami Heat had not shut him down. He was simply “missing shots that I normally make.” The Knicks, down three games to none in the playoffs, were not defeated. “Our confidence is high.” Anthony’s tone was unwavering, his faith absolute. This is how elite talent speaks, with a self-belief that borders on the absurd and occasionally veers into self-delusion. The Knicks, who have been outscored by 60 points in the series, are not going to be the first N.B.A. team (out of 100) to overcome a 3-0 deficit. Anthony, who is shooting .344 and has twice as many turnovers (12) as assists (6), is not going to lead them back. The Knicks will soon exit the postseason, their 12th straight year without winning a series. Their 13-game losing streak is the longest in playoff history. “I wasn’t here for them losses,” Anthony bristled this week, though he has now been here for seven. His dismissiveness misses the larger point: the Knicks traded a bounty for Anthony — four starters and three draft picks — to end their decade-long drought, to make May and June matter again at Madison Square Garden. Anthony demanded a trade on the premise that he, along with Amar’e Stoudemire, would turn the Knicks into a reasonable facsimile of the LeBron James-Dwyane Wade Heat. So far, the Anthony-Stoudemire Knicks have accomplished no more than the Stephon Marbury-Tim Thomas Knicks (swept in 2004). They have had their misfortune — injuries to Stoudemire and Chauncey Billups in 2011, injuries to Stoudemire and Iman Shumpert in 2012 — but great teams find a way to win. And when they fail, the great players absorb, reflect and rededicate themselves. Anthony is not the reflective type. He has rarely taken responsibility for his team’s failures, preferring to shift blame toward injuries, coaches or the playbook. But the N.B.A. is a star-driven league, and Anthony — a star by reputation, if not achievement — must eventually confront his own résumé. In nine postseasons, Anthony is 16-36 — the worst record among active players with at least 50 playoff games. He has won a first-round series only once, in 2009. Since then, he has lost 11 of 13 playoff games. If the Knicks lose Sunday, it will be Anthony’s third time getting swept in five years. Anthony shot .375 against the Boston Celtics in last year’s sweep. He is shooting miserably against Miami, but he is still taking 30 percent of his team’s field-goal attempts while the offense stagnates and the Heat loads up its defense. Playing Meloball — in which Anthony dominates the offense, usually in ball-pounding isolation sets — got the Knicks through a critical late-season period, without Stoudemire and Jeremy Lin, with a 9-4 record. Anthony was brilliant in that stretch, shooting high percentages and collecting 30-point games while the defense did the rest. But we are now seeing the limitations of Meloball. It can win 45 to 50 games (as it did in Denver), but it cannot beat a team as talented and disciplined as the Heat. Stoudemire hardly saw the ball in the first two games of this series. The Knicks’ 3-point shooters are not getting open looks, because the ball is not moving. Anthony is a great scorer. He is not yet a great player, because he does not consistently elevate his teammates. He averaged a modest 3.6 assists per game this season, and has a career average of 3.1. By contrast, consider his close friends from the 2003 draft class: Wade has averaged 6.2 assists per game for his career, and James 6.9. Both Miami stars can control a game through their playmaking alone. The same goes for Kobe Bryant (4.7 career average), when the mood strikes. In Cleveland, James led his teams deep into the playoffs (including the 2007 finals) despite a lackluster lineup, proving that a selfless star is infinitely more valuable than a single-minded gunner. Kurt Rambis — a former teammate of Magic Johnson and a former coach of Bryant — put it best in an ESPN podcast, saying of Anthony: “One of the things he has to learn is how to involve his teammates more. There’s a lot more to winning ballgames than just scoring points.” George Karl and Mike D’Antoni tried in vain to sell Anthony on this virtue, costing Karl years of aggravation and D’Antoni his job. Initially, D’Antoni asked Anthony to play point forward, giving him the ball control he desired, but with equal responsibility for scoring and playmaking. Anthony accepted the role grudgingly and played it poorly. Once Lin emerged, the Knicks’ playmaking needs were resolved. But Anthony was uncomfortable in a point guard-dominated offense and admitted as much a week before D’Antoni resigned. So far, the only offense that seems to please Anthony is one where everyone else passes and he shoots. “Melo is going to have to raise his game,” Coach Mike Woodson said Friday, suggesting that Anthony needs some growth to escape his personal playoff rut. “He’s got to change that.” Woodson, an interim coach with no leverage, has necessarily catered to Anthony’s desires. With a little job security, he might not be so forgiving. Phil Jackson, if he were enticed by the Garden’s riches, would certainly demand a more team-oriented game. Anthony will be 28 this month — old enough to be considered a veteran, young enough to learn. The Knicks will never be an elite team until he matures. And he will never truly be a star until he evolves. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/05/sport ... ecord.html

The Second Spitter May 06 2012 10:11 PM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Progress!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 07 2012 09:32 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

More like, "Effort-cum-Law-of-Averages!"

metirish May 07 2012 09:58 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

That's a damming article of Melo right there. First playoff win since before 9/11 as Harvey Araton put it today in the Times.

Vic Sage May 07 2012 09:59 AM Re: Knicks 2012, Short season of non-suckitude?

Anthony is a great scorer. He is not yet a great player, because he does not consistently elevate his teammates. He averaged a modest 3.6 assists per game this season, and has a career average of 3.1. By contrast, consider his close friends from the 2003 draft class: Wade has averaged 6.2 assists per game for his career, and James 6.9. Both Miami stars can control a game through their playmaking alone. The same goes for Kobe Bryant (4.7 career average), when the mood strikes. Assuming this is true (i won't bother checking his facts), this analysis assumes a conclusion and then mines data to support it. He fails to take into consideration that Anthony is not a ball-handling guard or a "point forward"; he's a 3-4 tweener, whose job it is to score. It's not his fault the team doesn't have a PG, and blaming him for not being one is stupid. The idea is to build a team that compliments what he does, not fault him for not doing what he doesn't do. He should be playing with a strong PG who will know when to put the ball in his hands, knowing full well it is unlikely to come back out again. Can you build a winning team with such a player? Of COURSE you can. While one would prefer to have a Jordan, Magic or Kobe who could all play defense, score AND distribute, and Carmelo has not yet proven he can do all of that (and may never), his per game numbers aren't much different than other champions like Dirk Nowitski, James Worthy, Paul Pierce, Tim Duncan, or even Dr. J's NBA production. And if you have a chance to get a Reggie Miller, Dominique Wilkins, or Adrian Dantley, you do it and then go from there; you don't trade for and then sign long term a guy like this and then complain because he's not Magic Johnson. How many guys are?