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Ryan Braun tests positive

smg58 Dec 10 2011 06:18 PM

[url]http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/7338271/ryan-braun-milwaukee-brewers-tests-positive-performance-enhancing-drug A stunner, to say the least. You have to think the Brewers will attempt to void his contract now, too.

metirish Dec 10 2011 06:20 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

WOW, that's some crazy shit right there.

Edgy MD Dec 10 2011 06:49 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

That's summazing. Not that I didn't think he was a tool, but.... Now they're paying a scofflaw money that should be going to the fat and kinda coldhearted Prince Fielder.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 10 2011 07:08 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 10 2011 07:09 PM

Whither goes the MVP award?

Frayed Knot Dec 10 2011 07:09 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

smg58 wrote: You have to think the Brewers will attempt to void his contract now, too. I doubt that.

Fman99 Dec 10 2011 07:11 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

I thought maybe he just tested positive for being a douche bag.

seawolf17 Dec 10 2011 07:26 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Maybe everybody can drink a cup of shut the fuck up about Reyes' batting title now.

Ashie62 Dec 10 2011 08:04 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Whither goes the MVP award? Matt Kemp..howya doin!!!!

Benjamin Grimm Dec 10 2011 08:11 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

I think the award goes to Suzette Charles.

Frayed Knot Dec 10 2011 09:03 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Ashie62 wrote: LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Whither goes the MVP award? Matt Kemp..howya doin!!!! Nothing changes IMO. The BBWA - who are the ones in charge of the award, not MLB - has shown no inclination to change things when past winners have later turned up dirty and I'd be shocked if they did anything in this case. Braun is, of course, protesting his innocence but, absent any wild discoveries of bad tests or other such irregularities, he simply sits out the first 50 games of next season and everything goes on as normal. This testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratio, which is where Braun's test failed the standard, is the same thing that tripped up cyclist Floyd Landis a bunch of years back. And, like Landis, the excess testosterone in question has reportedly been shown to be not his - ie, synthetic - and therefore an indicator that it was not only over the limit but also that way specifically because it was added to his body. Tough to argue your way out of that one. think the award goes to Suzette Charles. OK I'm lost on this one.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 10 2011 09:29 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 11 2011 12:56 AM

Whither goes the MVP award? Matt Kemp..howya doin!!!! Nothing changes IMO. The BBWA - who are the ones in charge of the award, not MLB - has shown no inclination to change things when past winners have later turned up dirty and I'd be shocked if they did anything in this case. Yes, but a positive test following the season-- hell, during the postseason-- with the results received during the same calendar year... that's flat-out unprecedented. ... the excess testosterone in question has reportedly been shown to be not his - ie, synthetic - and therefore an indicator that it was not only over the limit but also that way specifically because it was added to his body. Three words: Axe body spray.

Edgy MD Dec 10 2011 09:32 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

seawolf17 wrote: Maybe everybody can drink a cup of shut the fuck up about Reyes' batting title now. C'mon. Reyes was childish and disappointing and whoever was competing for the title against him didn't change that.

bmfc1 Dec 10 2011 09:59 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

seawolf17 wrote: Maybe everybody can drink a cup of shut the fuck up about Reyes' batting title now. Damn right. I'll take "childish and disappointing" over "drug user" any time.

Edgy MD Dec 10 2011 10:25 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

I don't think that's actually the choice we're confronted with.

Fman99 Dec 11 2011 05:56 AM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Ashie62 wrote: LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Whither goes the MVP award? Matt Kemp..howya doin!!!! Ken Caminiti got to keep his MVP award well after it was known that he was full of dope that year. They don't care once they give out the hardware.

G-Fafif Dec 11 2011 06:43 AM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I think the award goes to Suzette Charles. Hilarious 27 years ago. Still funny now. Perhaps because Grimm, Suzette and I are all the same age. I saw her open for Bob Newhart at Westbury in 1991 on the night the Mets' illusory winning streak reached ten.

dgwphotography Dec 11 2011 07:16 AM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

seawolf17 wrote: Maybe everybody can drink a cup of shut the fuck up about Reyes' batting title now. These things aren't graded on a bell curve. One douche move doesn't undo another...

MFS62 Dec 11 2011 08:29 AM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Schmuck. Later

Ashie62 Dec 11 2011 11:18 AM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

BBWAA The vote stands. "The writers voted with the information they had at the time." [url]http://eye-on-baseball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22297882/33793388

Benjamin Grimm Dec 11 2011 11:58 AM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

G-Fafif wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: I think the award goes to Suzette Charles. Hilarious 27 years ago. Still funny now. Perhaps because Grimm, Suzette and I are all the same age. I saw her open for Bob Newhart at Westbury in 1991 on the night the Mets' illusory winning streak reached ten. I'm glad somebody got the reference! (And yes, I figured it was a longshot.) And... OMG! I was at that same show! I don't know if it was a one-night only performance; we may or may not have been there on the same night.

Edgy MD Dec 11 2011 03:28 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Not for nothing, but seeing as how is reputation is in a thousand little pieces, he'd do well to make a huge conciliatory gesture and personally turn that trophy over to Kemp.

G-Fafif Dec 11 2011 04:45 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Edgy DC wrote: Not for nothing, but seeing as how is reputation is in a thousand little pieces, he'd do well to make a huge conciliatory gesture and personally turn that trophy over to Kemp. He might want to go through the appeal process first if, in fact, he was wrongly identified.

G-Fafif Dec 11 2011 04:46 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: I think the award goes to Suzette Charles. Hilarious 27 years ago. Still funny now. Perhaps because Grimm, Suzette and I are all the same age. I saw her open for Bob Newhart at Westbury in 1991 on the night the Mets' illusory winning streak reached ten. I'm glad somebody got the reference! (And yes, I figured it was a longshot.) And... OMG! I was at that same show! I don't know if it was a one-night only performance; we may or may not have been there on the same night. Saturday night, July 13, 1991. Bob did contemporary material on woman drivers and those darn Mexicans.

Edgy MD Dec 11 2011 06:24 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 11 2011 06:27 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Edgy DC wrote: Not for nothing, but seeing as how is reputation is in a thousand little pieces, he'd do well to make a huge conciliatory gesture and personally turn that trophy over to Kemp. Then after Kemp gets caught...

Edgy MD Dec 11 2011 06:45 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Exactly. It's all part of my nefarious plan to get Willie Harris his first MVP.

Fman99 Dec 11 2011 07:48 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Interesting reading here on the MLB testing process. My favorite snippet: Each test is monitored closely, from the collection phase to the final administration of testing. When a player is selected for random testing, he is taken to a "clean area" designated in each clubhouse. He is observed urinating in a provided sample cup, which is sealed and initialled. (Observed? Yes, that means what you think. The "full stream" must be visible from player to cup.) That sample is prepared and sent to MLB's designated lab. This is someone's job, to watch MLB players arc whizz into cups all day. Hilarious.

Frayed Knot Dec 11 2011 07:52 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Ask Lawrence Taylor how tests can be beaten unless actual whizzing is observed, he used to do it all the time (even though the NFL eliminated steroids from the league decades ago).

G-Fafif Dec 11 2011 11:39 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Fman99 wrote: This is someone's job, to watch MLB players arc whizz into cups all day. Hilarious.

Edgy MD Dec 12 2011 08:18 AM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Braun is appealing, with a statement from his spokesman claiming there are "highly unusual circumstances surrounding this case which will support Ryan's complete innocence." Any predictions on what the "Highly unusual circumstances" will turn out to be? The mind boggles at any new angles they might come up with, so I guess they go with the old I-was-doped-against-my-will standby.

duan Dec 12 2011 08:29 AM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

he could try this "five bottles of beer and sex with his girlfriend at least four times . . . it was her birthday, the lady deserved a treat,"

Centerfield Dec 12 2011 08:49 AM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Maybe he was watching SNY.

TransMonk Dec 12 2011 09:13 AM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

It should be interesting what the excuse is and whether MLB will waiver on their policy. I can't imagine MLB coming out with these allegations against the newly-crowned NL MVP and all around good-guy Braun unless they were pretty sure. If Braun has an excuse that would change the test results, then I would think that the whole dope testing policy would need to be reviewed.

Frayed Knot Dec 12 2011 12:22 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Couple of things here: - Braun is appealing the finding - which I assume is a right under terms of the agreement - so nothing's going to happen until that process is through. This is the kind of thing that's supposed to remain under wraps while being appealed although obviously it was leaked. - Statement from Braun's camp: "There are highly unusual circumstances surrounding this case which will support Ryan's complete innocence and demonstrate there was absolutely no intentional violation of the program. While Ryan has impeccable character and no previous history, unfortunately, because of the process we have to maintain confidentiality and are not able to discuss it any further, but we are confident he will ultimately be exonerated." Be interesting to see what they define as "highly unusual" although other reports (Ken Rosenthal) are citing sources describing Braun's results as being “never seen in the history of (baseball’s) drug-prevention program. ... everyone was just scratching their head.” which the Braun camp may see as signs of irregularities in the process. Also various reports say that while the positive was for a 'banned substance' it's not for a performance enhancing one. If true that still shouldn't change the punishment IMO although it might help his rep. - While there is no case that we know of that's been over-turned since this testing program began, it's certainly possible that players whose appeals were NOT leaked subsequently were exonerated and therefore the first positive never saw the light of day. - From the Milwaukee-Journal Sentinel's Tom Haudricourt: "Just spoke to someone familiar with the details of Braun's test and was assured he will be found innocent. If so, horrible this leaked out." Sounds odd to me that some in on the details but without a dog in the fight would speak to a newspaper man but it's always possible. - Braun requested a second test which reportedly came up clean although it's not clear what the time gap between that second sample and the first one is as that's something that clearly can affect the results.

metirish Dec 12 2011 12:29 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Well that certainly would throw the cat among the pigeons if he can prove his innocence, and I hope he is innocent but it all sounds very familiar his claims of nothing intentional, highly unusual circumstances yyybbb.

Ceetar Dec 12 2011 12:58 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Frayed Knot wrote: - Braun requested a second test which reportedly came up clean although it's not clear what the time gap between that second sample and the first one is as that's something that clearly can affect the results. It's well into the offseason too, so no surprise if it didn't come up clear right now.

Frayed Knot Dec 19 2011 09:29 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

The website TMZ.com cited "sources directly connected with Major League Baseball" in reporting on Monday that star Brewers outfielder Ryan Braun's positive test under Major League Baseball's Joint Drug Prevention and Treatment Policy was triggered by medication for a [u:2wmpqx0b]private medical issue[/u:2wmpqx0b]. "Private medical issue"; is that what they're calling 'herpes' these days?

Edgy MD Dec 20 2011 04:21 AM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

How disillusioning it would be to find out that TMZ sat on dirt like that.

MFS62 Dec 20 2011 08:42 AM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Frayed Knot wrote: "Private medical issue"; is that what they're calling 'herpes' these days? This brings new meaning to the old adage that alimony was the screwing you get for the screwing you got. Later

metirish Feb 23 2012 03:17 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Braun won his appeal case just now..... some conflicting stuff out there, some from the AP http://www.jsonline.com/ Brewers blog Ryan Braun wins appeal of positive drug test e-mail print By Tom Haudricourt of the Journal Sentinel Updated: 4:10 p.m. |(10) COMMENTS Phoenix - Milwaukee Brewers leftfielder Ryan Braun became the first major-league player to have a positive drug test overturned when he was informed Thursday that an arbitration panel ruled in his favor on appeal and decided against a 50-game suspension for the reigning National League most valuable player. There has been no official announcement of the verdict but the Journal Sentinel has confirmed that Braun won his appeal. Someone familiar with the decision said the appeal went Braun's way not so much on contesting the result of the test but the testing process itself, some kind of technicality. And it was arbitrator Shyam Das who decided to rule in favor on that technicality, making it a 2-1 decision by the three-man panel. Whatever the reason, the ruling was a tremendous boost for both Braun, whose reputation was at stake, and the Brewers, already missing free agent Prince Fielder from their 2011 NL Central championship club. Instead of having to figure out a way to replace Braun for the first 50 games of the season, the team can move forward with its original plans. Braun is expected to report to the Brewers' camp Friday on schedule, and now will not have the cloud of a suspension hanging over his head. It had become a point of noticeable nervousness and anxiety among other players and staff as well as they awaited what many feared would be a negative outcome. Braun appealed the positive test that took place in early October, at the outset of the playoffs. His hearing before a three-man arbitration panel was held in New York on Jan. 19-20, when noted attorney David Cornwell presented his case against the test result and suspension. The three-man panel included Major League Baseball Players Association executive director Michael Weiner, MLB vice president for labor relations Rob Manfred and independent arbitrator Shyam Das. The history of such hearings suggested Weiner would back the player and Manfred would support the testing procedure, leaving Das to cast the decisive vote. The MLB drug policy calls for a maximum of 25 days for the panel to render its verdict but that is considered more of a guideline than a rigid deadline. Accordingly, the panel took much longer to announce its decision. Thursday marked five weeks since the appeal hearing began. There had been speculation that the delay was because Braun already had been told he won the case and his side hadn't announced it. The commissioner's office wouldn't announce the player had won the appeal because the process is supposed to be confidential. But a source familiar with the decision said Braun was not informed until Thursday. An MLB source familiar with the history of game’s drug testing said none of the previous 12 major leaguers who appealed a positive result were able to overturn a suspension. Thus, even though successful appeals are not announced because of confidentiality, someone familiar with the process said Braun was the first major-leaguer to win an appeal. Originally, players were suspended for 10 days but that penalty was stiffened to 50 games in 2006, with pay forfeited. The burden of proof rests squarely on the player in such hearings because he must prove the banned substance was not in his system by his fault or through negligence. The MLB drug policy has a “strict liability” provision in which players are not exonerated merely because they ingested a banned substance unknowingly. Braun’s positive test reportedly included “insanely high levels” of testosterone, by far the most ever detected in a player. He requested an independent drug test a few weeks after testing positive, which was clean, but it was not authorized nor recognized as exculpatory by MLB. After ESPN reported Braun’s positive test, he immediately proclaimed his innocence, sending this test message to the Journal Sentinel: “I am completely innocent. This is B.S.” Braun indicated he wanted to give his side of the story but was instructed not to by his advisors. But his camp went on the offensive, citing “highly unusual circumstances surrounding this case which will support Ryan’s complete innocence and demonstrate that there was absolutely no intentional violation of the program.” The agency that represents Braun, CAA Sports, hired noted attorney David Cornwell to present his case before the panel. Cornwell had defended other high-profile athletes in such matters as well as other legal entanglements. Shortly after taking the case, Cornwell issued a statement saying, “Any report that Ryan ingested a performance-enhancing drug is wrong.” Cornwell limited his comments to that and the Braun camp closely guarded its defense strategy prior to the hearing. Word leaked, however, that Cornwell would attack the test finding on several fronts, questioning the veracity of the test itself because Braun’s testosterone level was more than twice as high as any previously recorded. A source familiar with MLB’s drug policy indicated there were only a few ways to overturn a positive test, such as proving a chain-of-custody issue, a flaw in the collection process or providing proof that the player’s team signed off on the substance. Otherwise, the “strict liability” aspect of the policy makes it extremely difficult to exonerate a player. Apparently, Braun won his appeal by contesting something in the process itself. Braun claimed 20 of 32 first-place votes for NL MVP after batting .332 with 33 home runs, 111 runs batted in, 109 runs scored and 33 stolen bases in 150 games. He led the league with a .597 slugging percentage. Braun has done a lot of amazing things during his big-league career, but considering the history of the drug program and its appeals, some might consider his biggest accomplishment.

TransMonk Feb 23 2012 03:24 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

What a load of crap. Someone familiar with the decision said the appeal went Braun's way not so much on contesting the result of the test but the testing process itself, some kind of technicality. I want answers. http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/140213003.html

metirish Feb 23 2012 03:27 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

I know right, does this prove he is innocent?, no right? Heyman, the biggest lick arse on twitter is predictably proclaiming Braun innocent, great guy yyybbb and that we should all consider "Braun a clean ballplayer"

TransMonk Feb 23 2012 03:35 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

That is bullshit. He's an even bigger cheater in my mind now.

Gwreck Feb 23 2012 03:58 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

TransMonk wrote: That is bullshit. He's an even bigger cheater in my mind now. I think it's best to wait for more details. I am very surprised by the result and I'd really like to know what the flaw in the process was too.

bmfc1 Feb 23 2012 04:13 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Jose leaving the last game of the season doesn't seem so bad now, does it? Jose got a lot of heat for it but if he didn't, Braun might have won the batting title.

Edgy MD Feb 23 2012 06:22 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

The three-man panel included Major League Baseball Players Association executive director Michael Weiner, MLB vice president for labor relations Rob Manfred and independent arbitrator Shyam Das. Kinda makes the whole three-man-panel idea seem pointless when two of them have obviously compromised loyalties. I don't think this really relates to Jose Reyes decision.

Gwreck Feb 23 2012 06:45 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Edgy DC wrote: Kinda makes the whole three-man-panel idea seem pointless when two of them have obviously compromised loyalties. Indeed. I think part of the problem is that neither side trusts the other enough to just have a 3-person impartial panel.

metirish Feb 23 2012 06:47 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Meanwhile the samples are what now?, still positive?

Gwreck Feb 23 2012 07:00 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

If there was no proper chain of custody, it's as if the samples didn't exist in the first place. Assuming the samples were indeed from Braun's urine, this tidbit from the New York Times is curious: The test sample at issue revealed that Braun had significantly elevated levels of testosterone in his body. The test showed a prohibited substance in Braun’s body, but not a steroid, according to another person familiar with the appeals process. So what exactly was in his body? If it caused elevated levels of testosterone, it seems it wasn't a masking agent. Was it something he was taking for a medical issue? Was it some other non-steroidal PED?

metirish Feb 23 2012 07:02 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

If there was no proper chain of custody, it's as if the samples didn't exist in the first place. Assuming the samples were indeed from Braun's urine, this tidbit from the New York Times is curious: The test sample at issue revealed that Braun had significantly elevated levels of testosterone in his body. The test showed a prohibited substance in Braun’s body, but not a steroid, according to another person familiar with the appeals process. So what exactly was in his body? If it caused elevated levels of testosterone, it seems it wasn't a masking agent. Was it something he was taking for a medical issue? Was it some other non-steroidal PED? Damn, what a mess.

smg58 Feb 23 2012 07:07 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

The sample was supposed to be shipped immediately, but the person responsible didn't think FedEx was open on a Saturday night. The delay in processing violated the terms of the testing agreement. Like it or not (and I don't, for one), you have to respect the rules of the agreement. And fire people who are responsible for shipping and don't know the hours of FedEx.

metsmarathon Feb 23 2012 07:11 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

what i don't understand is, was there an established procedure for handling the sample in lieu of a readily available shipping location? it almost sounds like there was, but the article is vague. if the bag and box remained sealed, then is the concern that the samples could have deteriorated due to exposure to suboptimal temperature conditions? if so, there should be some straightforward chemistry that would explain why or why not the detected substances and levels thereof could come about. is the guy's refrigerator any less secure than a fedex box truck? is it any less temperature-controlled? and how did braun know of the handling that enabled him to immediately claim that it was bullshit due to some specific circumstances that he didn't want to get into then and there? was the chain of custody expressed to him immediately upon informing him of the results?

Frayed Knot Feb 23 2012 07:21 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

If the over-turn is strictly the result of a technicality (some sources are citing a chain of custody issue) then, while he probably still deserves to be exonerated, it won't help him out in the court of public perception. If it's more than that, if the test itself were called into question, then the blame turns towards the testers and overseers (MLB? ... USADA?) and Braun gets at least some benefit of the doubt. I don't claim to be an expert of this stuff but, learning a wee bit about this type of process from reading about the procedures in the cycling world, the results are not always so cut-n-dried; almost as much art as science is how I've heard it described. So while it might be easy from the outside to say; well was the damn thing positive or not?!??, there frequently is some grey area that makes it not as simple as in some HS Chem lab where the test paper either turns blue or it turns red. MLB is clearly pissed, but the early leader in the dope of the day award contest seems to be Aaron Rogers who - while probably a friend of Braun's and sticking up for his fellow 'Sconnie' state pro - is tweeting daggers towards MLB about trying "to take an innocent man down" as if the league had some kind of motive to frame their newly crowned MVP who also happens to play for the Commish's favorite team. Get a grip Rogers.

metsmarathon Feb 23 2012 07:23 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

the conspiracy theorist in me thinks that the refrigerator story was come up with after the fact. but that guy's a kook.

smg58 Feb 23 2012 07:34 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

metsmarathon wrote: is the guy's refrigerator any less secure than a fedex box truck? Maybe, maybe not, but evidently it raises enough doubt.

MFS62 Feb 23 2012 09:42 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

(Chanelling Johnny Cochrane) "If the sample was mis-handled a bit, then you've got to acquit." Later

TransMonk Feb 24 2012 07:28 AM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

I'll be very interested to see how Bruan will respond to the inevitable question: "Ryan, can you tell your fans, especially the children who may be listening or watching, that regardless of the results of your test or appeal, you have never used any banned performance enhancing drugs?"

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 24 2012 07:49 AM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

I know I won't be able to look at Ryan Braun's urine the same way again.

Gwreck Feb 24 2012 09:41 AM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

TransMonk wrote: I'll be very interested to see how Bruan will respond to the inevitable question: "Ryan, can you tell your fans, especially the children who may be listening or watching, that regardless of the results of your test or appeal, you have never used any banned performance enhancing drugs?" I think he already answered it when he claimed innocence immediately upon hearing the results.

Gwreck Feb 24 2012 10:35 AM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Some more interesting revelations here from the Daily News In a two-day hearing on Jan. 19 and 20, Braun and his legal team raised the chain-of-custody issues and pointed out that the 28-year-old left fielder had never failed a test before, and that he easily passed another test not administered by MLB shortly after he was told of his positive test. Braun’s positive test (his testosterone to epitestosterone ratio was 20:1; the trigger point for a positive is 4:1) was described to the Daily News in December by a source familiar with his case as reflecting “insanely high” levels of testosterone. “(It was) the highest ever for anyone who has ever taken a test, twice the level of the highest test ever taken,” said the source, and was used as evidence that Braun would not have knowingly taken such a large dose of a substance that would trigger such a high positive. “It was more than just (the CDT representative) not giving it to FedEx promptly,” said a source familiar with the case. “Isn’t it odd that of 40,000 tests, the one that goes missing for two days has a higher ratio than any test ever?” According to the source, there were also noticeable differences in Braun’s test and samples from two other players held by the same collector. “The pH level changed,” said the source, “from the original recording to the time it reached the lab. The sample deteriorated.” The director of the Montreal lab, Christiane Ayotte, however, testified during the hearing that it was not unusual for the pH balance to change from the original reading, which is conducted, as one source said, at the collection site with something resembling a dip stick, and that the equipment used in the field is not as accurate as the equipment in the lab.

TransMonk Feb 24 2012 11:02 AM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Gwreck wrote: I think he already answered it when he claimed innocence immediately upon hearing the results. I think the definition of "innocence" is blury at best in this situation. I think many people, including Braun are conflating it with "not guilty". I want him to say the words "I have never used performance enhanding drugs". To my knowledge, he hasn't done this yet.

Edgy MD Feb 24 2012 12:19 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Tracksuit wrote: Attitude about Braun in Mets clubhouse can be best described as deep skepticism. Tracksuit wrote: “Ryan Braun is out there saying this shows he is innocent,” one Met said. “Does that mean O.J. Simpson is innocent, too?" Zero to OJ in ten seconds. Ouch.

TransMonk Feb 24 2012 12:35 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Yeah...any comparison to O.J. is a big leap. I do question the use of the word "innocent" as it applies to Braun, though.

metirish Feb 24 2012 01:40 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

According to Heyman Braun only needed to prove the test was faulty to prove he is innocent since actually proving yourself innocent is near to impossible. http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entr ... 2/34977466

metsmarathon Feb 24 2012 02:21 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

there are a few possibilites in this case: 1. the sample is braun's, and that it has not deteriorated, and he's on some innovative drug schedule that nobody's ever tested before 2. the sample is braun's, and it has deteriorated... a. ...because the mishandling by the tester (perhaps in concert with something that braun had recently ingested) caused it's makeup to change from a clean sample to a remarkably dirty sample b. ...because the mishandling by the tester (perhaps in concert with something that braun had recently ingested) caused it's makeup to change from a dirty sample to a remarkably dirty sample 3. the sample is braun's, and it has been accidentally contaminated due to the conduct of the tester 4. the sample is braun's, but has been intentionally contaminated due to the conduct of the tester 5. the sample did not come from a human. i think the meat of the argument lies between 2a and 2b. it seems very likely, given the oddness of the sample, that it deteriorated between the time that braun gave the sample and the time the sample was tested. maybe he is on some cool drug regiment that jacks his testosterone through the fucking roof, but you'd have to be pretty ballsy to give it a try. i guess you could always rely on the fact that your test result would then be so wacky that it would call into question the velidity of the test. in which case, well played, braun! since it sounds like the samples arrived at the testing facility in the same sealed containers as they were put in at the time of the pissing, then 3 and 4 are fairly unlikely. i suppose the possibility exists that the sample containers were contaminated before braun ever let loose his golden stream, but that would call into question any test ever anywhere. plus wouldn't braun cry foul immediately if hte sample container were not removed from its sterile and hermetically sealed container right in front of his eyes? and so i return to my prior-stated desire to have hte chemistries better explained so as to offer up a rational explanation for the process by which a clean sample could turn into something so dirty, or wby which such a dirty sample could only come from a sample which was dirty to begin with, just less extremely so.

TransMonk Feb 24 2012 02:33 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball ... -body.html The Sun Times quoting Ryan Braun wrote: I would bet my life the substance never entered my body at any point. There's still a lot of murk to this story...but like I said, Braun's statement above goes a long way towards me being able to swallow the appeal decision.

Edgy MD Feb 24 2012 02:33 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

I'd like a "not guilty" ruling to be based not so much on "The samples were mishandled and therefore could theoretically trigger a false positive" as "The samples were mishandled and therefore could must've triggered a false positive, as demonstrated by my 30 negative tests in the next seven days." He did submit 30 more tests, right?

metsmarathon Feb 24 2012 02:45 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

how long does it take, from receipt of sample, until hte time that the results of the test are known? is it at all weird that braun wasn't informed of his failing the test until two weeks later? i'm a little surprised in all the news articles, that tehre's no in-depth discussion of the actual process / procedure. the more i read, the more i tend to lean towards "he's probably cleaan" but i'm maybe 60/40 on the issue. the wackiness of the sample is difficult to reconcile, and the apparent mishandling of the sample surely lends itself to that end. but i'd still like to understand how simple mishandling could result in such a marked difference. i'm actually a little surprised nobody's called on a pee-expert to expound on the matter.

TransMonk Feb 24 2012 02:51 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

metsmarathon wrote: i'm actually a little surprised nobody's called on a pee-expert to expound on the matter. Yeah, where the hell is Moises?

metirish Feb 24 2012 02:56 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Sounds like Monk is taking the piss!

Vic Sage Feb 24 2012 03:00 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Feb 24 2012 03:01 PM

In listening to Mike & Mike on ESPN this morning, an attorney explained that not only was the urine sample not stored as per the protocol (sitting on a desk in the collector's home for 2 days), but Braun also offered to take a DNA test to show it wasn't his urine sample and MLB refused. Based on that, it seems to me his claim isn't about deterioration of the sample, but that chain-of-custody was in doubt.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 24 2012 03:00 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Even more unbelievable than the reason for the test being thrown out? The fact that it was broken by a 16-year-old a week ago, apparently.

Ceetar Feb 24 2012 03:57 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Edgy DC wrote: I'd like a "not guilty" ruling to be based not so much on "The samples were mishandled and therefore could theoretically trigger a false positive" as "The samples were mishandled and therefore could must've triggered a false positive, as demonstrated by my 30 negative tests in the next seven days." He did submit 30 more tests, right? This seems to be like when an attorney or witness misspeaks and mentions something they're not allowed to in court and the judge tells the court recorder to strike it from the record and the jury is just supposed to forget it happened.

Gwreck Feb 24 2012 05:18 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

It's more analogous to a police officer taking critical evidence...say, an alleged murder weapon...and taking it to his house for safekeeping rather than the evidence locker at the police station. As a result, the evidence is inadmissable in the trial.

Ceetar Feb 24 2012 05:50 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Gwreck wrote: It's more analogous to a police officer taking critical evidence...say, an alleged murder weapon...and taking it to his house for safekeeping rather than the evidence locker at the police station. As a result, the evidence is inadmissable in the trial. sure, the knife _might_ have been tampered with. But how would the officer get access to the victims blood after the fact and get the murderers fingerprints on it?

Ashie62 Feb 24 2012 08:58 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

I don't even believe the sample came from Braun.

metirish Feb 25 2012 10:28 AM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

The butler did it.

Ashie62 Feb 25 2012 03:10 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

It might be Billy Butler lol

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 27 2012 12:00 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Granted, it's entirely conjecture, but this makes so much sense, I'd be shocked if this wasn't part of Shyam Das' decision. But Das serves at the will of the parties and can be fired at any moment by either side. That makes him a neutral third party, but not exactly independent. Why is that significant? In recent big cases, Das has come down against the players... We don't know Das's reasoning. But we do know that Braun's camp never disputed the results of the test, the 30-to-1 testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratio. And we know that many weekend drug tests have been handled under the same slightly screwball protocol that Braun's was—i.e., the tester stashing the piss cup somewhere between the milk and the legumes until a FedEx/Kinkos opens up—and that no one had previously contested their legitimacy. By all appearances, this was an easy decision. The sample was sealed, and there was no evidence of any tampering. Nobody—not even Braun's camp—has offered any theory of how the testosterone got into it. But put yourself in Das's position last week. If he rules against the players, the union will almost certainly fire him. But a ruling against the league? Maybe, with his history, MLB will give him a pass. And if it doesn't—and I'm guessing now that it won't—Das will at least leave the job having balanced out the scales a little. Nobody wants to hire an arbitrator who looks like a management stooge. If ever there were a case for Das to throw to the players, it was this one.

metirish Feb 27 2012 12:43 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Will be interesting to see how fans react to Braun, despite what Heyman says it's just not that cut and dry , for me anyway.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 27 2012 12:46 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Honestly, I'm less concerned with how he "got off," and more concerned about the fact that he's now loudly decrying his false accusation and poor treatment at MLB's hands when his people never actually questioned the result, and had no apparent reason to do so.

Gwreck Feb 27 2012 07:08 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Honestly, I'm less concerned with how he "got off," and more concerned about the fact that he's now loudly decrying his false accusation and poor treatment at MLB's hands when his people never actually questioned the result, and had no apparent reason to do so. The drug testing program is confidential. Both the players and MLB agreed to that provision. There is supposed to be no announcement regarding a positive test until a player's appeal is exhausted. Somebody leaked it to ESPN and if it wasn't Braun -- which, by all accounts, it wasn't -- he's got great reason to be aggrieved. If this had been handled properly, nobody should have even known about the alleged positive test.

metirish Feb 28 2012 06:30 AM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Gwreck wrote: If this had been handled properly, nobody should have even known about the alleged positive test. if it had happened this way who's sample would that have belonged too?, Braun claims that that sample wasn't his right? The sample that was sent in was positive?, not even sure if I am making sense......to me the technicality has proved very opportune for Braun.

Ceetar Feb 28 2012 06:50 AM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

metirish wrote: Gwreck wrote: If this had been handled properly, nobody should have even known about the alleged positive test. if it had happened this way who's sample would that have belonged too?, Braun claims that that sample wasn't his right? The sample that was sent in was positive?, not even sure if I am making sense......to me the technicality has proved very opportune for Braun. It's sorta win-win for everyone. Braun's got years to work on his reputation, and you don't exactly hear A-Rod getting flak every day for steroids. He doesn't get suspended, MLB gets to look like they're taking a real hard line but don't actually have to suspend the MVP.. This stuff gets out. I mean, how many people have been named in that 2003 pre-testing report? A-Rod has the exact same gripe. Isn't Bonds public guilt largely due to leaked Grand Jury testimony? We would've known he was involved with Balco, but not how clearly. All that Cream/Clear stuff..

Gwreck Feb 28 2012 10:11 AM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

metirish wrote: if it had happened this way who's sample would that have belonged too?, Braun claims that that sample wasn't his right? To clarify: If the confidentiality rules had been handled properly, nobody would have known that Braun had "tested" positive and if he had won the appeal, it would have remained confidential. If the urine in question had been handled properly, well, who knows what would have happened.

Gwreck Feb 28 2012 10:13 AM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Ceetar wrote: Isn't Bonds public guilt largely due to leaked Grand Jury testimony? He did stand trial for perjury. Even if the Grand Jury testimony hadn't been illegally disseminated, we can presume that the details would have become public when he was indicted and then tried. This stuff gets out. That doesn't mean it should.

metirish Feb 28 2012 11:08 AM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Gwreck wrote: if it had happened this way who's sample would that have belonged too?, Braun claims that that sample wasn't his right? To clarify: If the confidentiality rules had been handled properly, nobody would have known that Braun had "tested" positive and if he had won the appeal, it would have remained confidential. If the urine in question had been handled properly, well, who knows what would have happened. of course, but , if he was positive we would know for sure. As it is he got off.

Ceetar Feb 28 2012 11:33 AM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Maybe the appeal isn't successful without it being leaked and the public perception. The bottom line is he took something, and he should probably just shut up at this point, let it go, and switch to something they don't test for like everyone else.

Ceetar Feb 28 2012 01:09 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

[url]http://www.espnmilwaukee.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=7037 Statement from the collector.

metirish Feb 28 2012 01:23 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Ceetar wrote: [url]http://www.espnmilwaukee.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=7037 Statement from the collector. Good for him, I really see no reason for me to doubt the person.

Fman99 Feb 28 2012 01:37 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

All this talk of urine and getting off is making me randy.

Edgy MD Mar 19 2012 07:22 AM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

There are reasons (warning: SBNation link), and his teammates know. And if his teammates know, it's just a matter of time before one of his teammates is no longer a teammate and feels less beholden to the circle of silence.

Ceetar Mar 19 2012 07:24 AM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

There are reasons (warning: SBNation link), and his teammates know. And if his teammates know, it's just a matter of time before one of his teammates is no longer a teammate and feels less beholden to the circle of silence. I thought the 'reason' he first went with was Herpes? or what that an unsubstantiated rumor?

Edgy MD Mar 19 2012 08:00 AM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

The public reason seems to be the failure of the process and the processors. The private reason is perhaps different and seems to be related to the his body chemistry and the sample he actually produced.

Vic Sage Mar 19 2012 10:18 AM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Braun hired lawyers to get the suspension overturned. They argued whatever evidence was available to them to make their case. And in doing so, they prevailed. But now he's got a problem. The technical argument, while successful before a judge, was unpersuasive to both the fans (which he may or may not really care about) and the media (who will be the ultimate arbiters of both the historical record and the HOF voting -- which he certainly cares about). So now begins a PR counter-offensive that will eventually cover the waterfront with rationales -- the test was tainted; the procedure was tainted; the result was false; he's an innocent fall guy for a hypocritical system; he tested positive, but its not what you think! It'll be like that classic scene with Belushi in BLUES BROTHERS, where Carrie Fisher is about to blow him away for being a two-timing cad and he comes up with every excuse in the book, ultimately winning her over with his adorable eyebrows. And even if none of the excuses stick, he'll always be able to point to the overturning of the suspension as the anti-smoking gun... "you can't keep me out, i was found not guilty!", so he can't be thrown into the same box as those guys who DID test positive or who admitted it. And who knows... by the time his candidacy is evaluated, other PEDguys may have been voted in already, so the informal ban may be lifted by then.

metirish Mar 19 2012 12:01 PM Re: Ryan Braun tests positive

Lucroy in the Sports Nation piece really doesn't help Braun here..... Lucroy said there was more to the situation than Braun has said publicly, and his explanation to teammates, Lucroy said, has been convincing. "I’m not going to get into the details, but if you knew what we knew, people would be like, ‘Wow,’ " Lucroy said, adding that he understood why Braun has elaborated only in private. "You’ve got to do that because it’s his prerogative. It’s up to him, it’s his choice. And honestly, if some of the things came out, it would be a lot more negative than positive. There are reasons."