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All-Time Team

Edgy MD Dec 20 2011 10:23 AM

Part of the 50th anniversary festivities will apparently be the coronation of a new All-Time Mets Team. The wrinkle is that it's not happening on the field, despite it being in-season, but at a SNY sponsored event at the 92nd Street Y. Mat Cerrone says ticks are already sold. In case you're wondering, the Marlins won't be in town, but they have a day game in Tampa and the day off the next day, giving Reyes a chance to fly up after.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 20 2011 11:03 AM Re: All-Time Team

Here's my team. Most of these selections are no-brainers, I'd say. I assume that the team will be comprised of one LF'er, one CF'er and one RF'er. As a fan, I'd wish that Orosco, or if not him, than Tug, would make the team as lefty reliever. C Mike Piazza 1B Keith Hernandez 2B Edgardo Alfonzo 3B David Wright SS Jose Reyes LF Cleon Jones CF Carlos Beltran RF Darryl Strawberry RHP Tom Seaver LHP Jerry Koosman LRlf John Franco (but grudgingly) RRlf Armando Benitez

Vic Sage Dec 20 2011 11:10 AM Re: All-Time Team

we used to have a thread like this every year or so -- this one looks about right.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 20 2011 11:13 AM Re: All-Time Team

I can't quibble with that list. I notice that of the 12 players, only five won a World Series with the Mets; three 69ers and two 86ers. (And there are four others who lost a World Series with the Mets, all in 2000.) The remaining three came very close to a World Series in 2006.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 20 2011 11:14 AM Re: All-Time Team

Second 50th Ann team. Here's where it gets interesting. Quibble away. C Jerry Grote 1B John Olerud 2B Wally Backman 3B Howard Johnson SS Bud Harrelson LF Kevin McReynolds CF Mookie Wilson RF Rusty Staub RHP Dwight Gooden LHP Jon Matlack (I would've went with Al Leiter, but JCL's song parody suddenly dissuaded me. Fuck You Al, and your sending away Kazmir ways and your buddying up with the Wilpons. And Fuck George Bush II, too) RrlfP Roger McDowell LRlfP Jesse Orosco

metsmarathon Dec 20 2011 11:35 AM Re: All-Time Team

hmm, i wonder what kind of roster our rankings project would turn out.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 20 2011 11:40 AM Re: All-Time Team

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Here's my team. Most of these selections are no-brainers, I'd say. I assume that the team will be comprised of one LF'er, one CF'er and one RF'er. As a fan, I'd wish that Orosco, or if not him, than Tug, would make the team as lefty reliever. LRlf John Franco (but grudgingly) But the case for Orosco: Orosco 595.2 IP/12.2 Mets WAR = 1 win above replacement every 48.8 IP Franco 702.2 IP/12.8 Mets WAR = 1 win above replacement every 54.9 IP Though Franco was a Met for almost twice as many seasons as Orosco (14-8), Franco's Mets IP exceeded Orosco's by only 18%. Orosco's '83 campaign (3d place, CY voting) was the best single season pitching performance by a Mets reliever. Franco "saved" more games per season than Orosco because Orosco's pen mate, Roger McDowell was about as reliable as Jesse, not because Franco was significantly better than Orosco. In fact, I'd say that Orosco was the better lefty reliever. And one more opinion: Jesse's brilliance in the 1986 WS MVP award was good enough to cop the MVP trophy. Knight had the dramatic hits, but Orosco was untouchable. He was the series' unsung hero.

G-Fafif Dec 20 2011 12:31 PM Re: All-Time Team

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Second 50th Ann team. Here's where it gets interesting. If the First Team is to be presented at the 92nd Street Y, where would the Second Team be introduced? The 92nd Street Z?

themetfairy Dec 20 2011 12:50 PM Re: All-Time Team

I just bought tix so I can take D-Dad there for Father's Day.

G-Fafif Dec 20 2011 12:54 PM Re: All-Time Team

Edgy DC wrote: In case you're wondering, the Marlins won't be in town, but they have a day game in Tampa and the day off the next day, giving Reyes a chance to fly up after. Actually (in the hope that Jose would take wing home for one day) I checked and time of game is TBD, which perhaps is a formality or perhaps ESPN will want to show the sexy Marlins playing the perennial postseason participating Rays on Sunday Night Baseball, which is only wacky until you think about it. The Mets are not investing in a proper Old Timers Day this year, so wow, one really does have to look to the 92nd Street Y on a Sunday night for this. Father's Day Night, for all you Mets fan celebrating birthdays.

Edgy MD Dec 20 2011 01:54 PM Re: All-Time Team

G-Fafif wrote: Edgy DC wrote: In case you're wondering, the Marlins won't be in town, but they have a day game in Tampa and the day off the next day, giving Reyes a chance to fly up after. Actually (in the hope that Jose would take wing home for one day) I checked and time of game is TBD... Truly, we suffer the same illness.

smg58 Dec 20 2011 01:55 PM Re: All-Time Team

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Second 50th Ann team. Here's where it gets interesting. Quibble away. C Jerry Grote 1B John Olerud 2B Wally Backman 3B Howard Johnson SS Bud Harrelson LF Kevin McReynolds CF Mookie Wilson RF Rusty Staub RHP Dwight Gooden LHP Jon Matlack (I would've went with Al Leiter, but JCL's song parody suddenly dissuaded me. Fuck You Al, and your sending away Kazmir ways and your buddying up with the Wilpons. And Fuck George Bush II, too) RrlfP Roger McDowell LRlfP Jesse Orosco Grote over Carter?

Benjamin Grimm Dec 20 2011 02:04 PM Re: All-Time Team

Grote has longevity. Carter has 1985.

metsmarathon Dec 20 2011 02:10 PM Re: All-Time Team Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 20 2011 02:13 PM

grote, 13.0 WAR in 4335 plate appearances carter, 11.2 in 2448 plate appearances (6.7 in 1985 alone) edit: wait! where do you put stearns, 18.5 WAR in 3081 plate appearances? 11th all-time among metly WAR for position players, and left off the 2nd team! good heavens!

Vic Sage Dec 20 2011 02:12 PM Re: All-Time Team

Um, Carter has 86, too. but i won't argue with your choice, despite the fact that Grote at his best wasn't the overall player that Carter was, even at the end. Grote had 69, 73 and overall superior Metliness.

HahnSolo Dec 20 2011 02:18 PM Re: All-Time Team

Can't really argue with Batmag selections. Sentimentally I'd like to see Tug in there. It also floors me a bit that Wally Backman could be the Mets second-best-ever second basemen, but no one else immediately springs to mind.

Edgy MD Dec 20 2011 02:25 PM Re: All-Time Team

Felix Millan, Ron Hunt, and Ken Boswell are certainly in the picture.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 20 2011 02:31 PM Re: All-Time Team

Grote over Carter was my toughest pick. Like Vic wrote, I think I was going for overall Metliness when I chose Grote. I leaned towards Grote's time here. There's no doubt that Carter's peak or best Metness was better than Grote's. That and perhaps, I was overcompensating for what I consider to be Carter's overratedness. Not that Carter wasn't an historically important Met, or a Mets Hall of Fame Met. Because he deservedly was. But as good a Met as Carter was, or as great a Met as he was, I always though that the perception was far greater than the reality.

Frayed Knot Dec 20 2011 02:32 PM Re: All-Time Team Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Dec 20 2011 02:44 PM

metsmarathon wrote: hmm, i wonder what kind of roster our rankings project would turn out. For all the complaints about it, pretty darn close to the emerging consensus in this thread. The obvious exception is this site's namesake being so high which in turn brings up the age-old longevity vs shorter but better peak question. Other than him I think only Sid hadn't been mentioned. 1st TEAM C - Mike Piazza 1B - Eddie Kranepool 2B - Edgardo Alfonzo 3B - David Wright SS - Jose Reyes LF - Cleon Jones CF - Carlos Beltran RF - Darryl Strawberry RHSP - Tom Seaver LHSP Jerry Koosman RRfl - Armando Benitez LRfl - John Franco 2nd TAM C - Jerry Grote 1B - Keith Hernandez 2B - Jeff Kent 3B - Howard Johnson SS - Bud Harrelson LF - Kevin McReynolds CF - Mookie Wilson RF - Rusty Staub RHSP - Dwight Gooden LHSP - Sid Fernandez RRfl - Roger McDowell LRfl - Tug McGraw oe: Lowest ranked players to reach this list: Roger McDowell & Jeff Kent (46th & 47th) Highest ranked players squeezed out by position: Ron Darling and Jon Matlack (20th & 21st)

Edgy MD Dec 20 2011 02:39 PM Re: All-Time Team

BB-R.com WAR as a Met (Position Independent): Backman: 9.6 Hunt: 7.8 Millan: 6.2 Boswell: 3.9 According to Baseball-Reference, Alfonzo gets a 29.1 WAR as a Met, including approximately 13.82 as a secondbaseman, 14.56 as a thirdbaseman, 0.63 as a shortstop, and 0.02 as a DH. A fat lot to dismiss as a guy who "had a few good years, was about 5 years older then reported, and then got fat...."

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 20 2011 02:46 PM Re: All-Time Team

[u:3mk1y3ik]Backman:[/u:3mk1y3ik] 9.6 rWAR/10.5 fWAR over parts of 9 seasons; grittiness unsurpassed; Metliness/Metly lovability at playing-days-Dykstra levels [u:3mk1y3ik]Kent:[/u:3mk1y3ik] 8.1 rWAR/8.2 fWAR over parts of 5 seasons; grittiness limited and localized in his underpants; Metliness/Metly lovability at Coleman-minus-the-firecrackers levels

smg58 Dec 20 2011 03:03 PM Re: All-Time Team

If you're going for overall Metliness over a couple great seasons, you'd have to put Kranepool at least ahead of Olerud. I keep forgetting that Kent was here long enough and (sufficiently decent) to merit consideration.

G-Fafif Dec 20 2011 05:09 PM Re: All-Time Team

When Mets put together their 40th anniversary All-Amazin' team, they cleverly created space for two pinch-hitters, thus Eddie and Rusty got their due. It was a fan vote, and the fans did a fine job except for two positions. C - Piazza 1B - Hernandez 2B - Alfonzo SS - Harrelson 3B - Johnson OF - Strawberry OF - Wilson OF - Dykstra (whither Cleon?) RHSP - Seaver LHSP - Koosman RHRP - McDowell (Armando allergy apparently) LHRP - Franco PH - Kranepool PH - Staub MGR - Hodges

Ashie62 Dec 20 2011 07:48 PM Re: All-Time Team

HahnSolo wrote: Can't really argue with Batmag selections. Sentimentally I'd like to see Tug in there. It also floors me a bit that Wally Backman could be the Mets second-best-ever second basemen, but no one else immediately springs to mind. Millan