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NFL Playoffs 2012

Frayed Knot Jan 08 2012 06:47 PM

* OK, I still don't understand the new overtime rules. There are new (or new-ish) ones and they're different from the reg season, right? I was only sort of watching the Pitt/Den game and there were peeps in the house at the time so I didn't hear the ref's explanation during the overtime coin flip but I thought the team that lost the toss was supposed to get a crack at things if the other team scored on its first possession so I spent the first several moments after Denver's TD thinking that the game was still going. Guess not, huh? And now the endless Tebow discussions (both pro and con) gets extended for at least one more week. * And, while we're discussing NFL rules, why is a punt that goes out of bounds treated differently from a kick-off that goes out of bounds? I realize that, unlike the overtime thing, this isn't a new rule but it (like several NFL rules) always bugged me. * Giants @ Green Bay gets the late slot on Sunday Hmmmm, Northern Wisconsin in January with most of the game after sunset (kickoff at 3:30 local time) ... Can you say frostbite?

metirish Jan 08 2012 06:51 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Great game to watch, Tebow for all the nonsense about him is fun to watch. Even the ref seemed to have a hard time explaining the OT rules.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 08 2012 07:46 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

In a nutshell? The game can't end on a first-offensive-possession FG (the aim being to stop OT from being so much of a team-that-wins-the-toss-wins-the-game proposition). If the team getting the ball first kicks a FG, the other team gets one offensive possession to match or better that. If the team getting the ball first goes three-and-out, or turns the ball over, the other team can end the game with any offensive score (including a FG). Any TD-- including a first-offensive-possession, defensive, or special-teams score-- ends the game. Demaryius Thomas may make Tim Tebow look very, very good over the course of the next few years; the guy is Brandon Marshall with better brain chemistry.

Ceetar Jan 08 2012 08:05 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

also making Tebow look good: The Steelers defense playing for the run and having no one to block a pass.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 08 2012 10:27 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Well, they lost two Pro-Bowl quality defensive linemen in the first half, and interior linebacker LaMarr Woodley in the second. It's not that they were "playing the run," it's that in order to stop the run, they had to more frequently sell out (play their safeties forward) and rely almost exclusively on man-to-man on the Bronco receivers. It's gambling, but it's a gamble most teams will take against a run-first team/a QB presumed to have accuracy issues. Such a defensive posture puts the Broncos in a position to make some Steeler-hash with the passing game. Of course... they still had to make said passes. The offensive line did its part well enough, Tebow did his part-- he actually looked good most of the day (even the misses were in safe, only-his-guy-can-get-it places)-- and Thomas and Royal made some plays.

Ceetar Jan 09 2012 05:24 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

i meant on the last play, when a field goal doesn't end the game like a long pass play does. should've been in no doubles defense.

Edgy MD Jan 09 2012 05:45 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Absurd how Tebow has turned into a lightning rod in the alleged culture wars.

Frayed Knot Jan 09 2012 05:52 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

So what exactly did they determine was wrong with playing an extra quarter when post-season games were tied at the end of regulation? Seems to me that they changed the OT routine where it wasn't broken and left it alone where it was. IOW, the rules they're now using for the playoffs are the ones they should be using for the reg season and the old method they were using for post-season was just fine as it was. I think the reason they refuse to alter the reg season rules is that games might take too long that way and so they'd either be stealing viewers from the next scheduled game and/or bleeding into the networks' prime time sked. Of course increased commercial time means that most games already exceed the 3-hour time slot anyway doesn't help even if the league likes to maintain the fiction that they don't. But with so few games in the playoffs - most if not all of which are all going to get better ratings than whatever they'd be bumping/delaying anyway - I don't see why they'd be so concerned with the extra time in these do or die contests.

Ceetar Jan 09 2012 05:58 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Too many commercials? You mean like in the Giants game where it went: score, commercial, extra point, commercial, kickoff, commercial, one play time out commercial, one play, 2 minute warning, commercial, one play, punt, commercial?

Frayed Knot Jan 09 2012 06:06 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

I complain about the length of baseball games more than most people, but that's been more of a slow drift caused by many factors. But when the NFL altered their rules concerning the play clock a bunch of years back and signed new deals with the various networks they effectively legislated that games would take longer while containing fewer plays.

Ceetar Jan 09 2012 06:41 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Frayed Knot wrote: I complain about the length of baseball games more than most people, but that's been more of a slow drift caused by many factors. But when the NFL altered their rules concerning the play clock a bunch of years back and signed new deals with the various networks they effectively legislated that games would take longer while containing fewer plays. I'd like to see Baseball trend the other way too. The comparison I guess would be the LaRussa(tm) lefty for one batter, commercial, righty for one batter, commercial, next pitcher commercial

metirish Jan 09 2012 06:46 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

What is really annoying is missing a play coming back from commercials , and unfortunately SNY is a repeat offender with this.

Ceetar Jan 09 2012 06:49 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

metirish wrote: What is really annoying is missing a play coming back from commercials , and unfortunately SNY is a repeat offender with this. I don't understand why this ever happens. Add 15 seconds to delay and catch up by cutting one of the 'extra' commercials from a pitching change or cut off the end of the inning abruptly.

soupcan Jan 09 2012 07:18 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

I had dvr'd the Syracuse-Marquette game and was watching the 2nd half. It was 7:25 pm and I had to be around the corner at a neighbor's house by 8:00. I figured since the half was 20:00, I'd fast-forward through the commercials and be out of my house by 7:55 at the latest. Holy Crap. I cannot tell you how many time-outs, commercials, referees huddling to review plays and decide calls, etc., happened in those 20:00 minutes, but it was insane. For me to get out of my house in time I had to not only ff through the commercials but also the 30 second timeouts where they don't go to commercial (and I usually like hearing the commentary during those) AND even the foul shots. The fact that it became a 2 point game at around the 4:30 mark and they kept stopping play was just killing me. PLAY THE GAME!

Ceetar Jan 09 2012 07:45 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

not to turn this into a "This is why baseball's awesome" thread, but it seems to be that the most 'tense' moments of football are the time when the commercials and stoppages are at their highest. In baseball that last half inning is almost never interrupted. Sure, it takes Paps 10 minutes between pitches, something we're going to become awfully aware of soon, but inbetween pitches the ball is live. the baserunners can move. stuff is happening and it only heightens the drama instead of trying to sell you beer-flavored yellow water. Same with hockey, that last 2 minutes or so of a 1-goal game is a flurry of activity. Where baseball is a slow build-up of potential energy looking to be unleashed in one huge explosion, hockey is a furry of kinetic energy where even the announcer ends up short of breath.

TransMonk Jan 09 2012 07:59 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Frayed Knot wrote: So what exactly did they determine was wrong with playing an extra quarter when post-season games were tied at the end of regulation? Seems to me that they changed the OT routine where it wasn't broken and left it alone where it was. IOW, the rules they're now using for the playoffs are the ones they should be using for the reg season and the old method they were using for post-season was just fine as it was. Well, the old way was sudden death...once one team scored the game was over. The supposed reason for the change is that they didn't want games ending on a FG in the first possession of overtime. With the advent of kickoff returns and long-distance field goal kickers, too often the receiving team in OT would return the ball back their 30-40 yard line, connect on a couple of mid-range passes and then kick a field goal to end the game. The rule makers thought that this was a disappointing way for one team's season to end, so now (and really, this is the only difference) if one team scores a FG, the other team gets one possession the ball to try to tie or win. If there is no scoring, the game can still technically last forever...and the PIT/DEN game last night would have ended the same way under the old OT rules as it did under the new OT rules. Nothing about the new rules changed the outcome of this game.

Mets – Willets Point Jan 09 2012 08:14 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

A witty friend of mine on Facebook posted this (seemed more apropos to this thread than the Facebook thread): Some are making a big deal that Tim Tebow threw for 316 yards yesterday, and implying that it’s some sort of biblical (John 3:16) sign from God. If it is a Bible message from God, we should consider the possibility that God actually intended to direct Tim to Genesis 3:16, “Yet your urge shall be for your husband,” or Leviticus 3:16, “All the fat belongs to the LORD;” or Revelation 3:16, “So, because you are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.” I think it’s most likely Luke 3:16, though: "One mightier than I is coming. I am not worthy to untie his shoes," which clearly shows that God is trash-talking Tim about next week's game

Nymr83 Jan 09 2012 09:38 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

G-d doesn't nedd to trash talk. Unlike Rex Ryan or Patrick Ewing, he delivers on his championship promises!

Frayed Knot Jan 09 2012 10:05 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

TransMonk wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: So what exactly did they determine was wrong with playing an extra quarter when post-season games were tied at the end of regulation? Seems to me that they changed the OT routine where it wasn't broken and left it alone where it was. IOW, the rules they're now using for the playoffs are the ones they should be using for the reg season and the old method they were using for post-season was just fine as it was. Well, the old way was sudden death...once one team scored the game was over. The supposed reason for the change is that they didn't want games ending on a FG in the first possession of overtime. With the advent of kickoff returns and long-distance field goal kickers, too often the receiving team in OT would return the ball back their 30-40 yard line, connect on a couple of mid-range passes and then kick a field goal to end the game. The rule makers thought that this was a disappointing way for one team's season to end, so now (and really, this is the only difference) if one team scores a FG, the other team gets one possession the ball to try to tie or win. If there is no scoring, the game can still technically last forever...and the PIT/DEN game last night would have ended the same way under the old OT rules as it did under the new OT rules. Nothing about the new rules changed the outcome of this game. I was thinking that during playoffs they used to play a full 15-minute OT period but maybe I'm going (more) senile.

Frayed Knot Jan 09 2012 10:16 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

soupcan wrote: I had dvr'd the Syracuse-Marquette game and was watching the 2nd half. It was 7:25 pm and I had to be around the corner at a neighbor's house by 8:00. I figured since the half was 20:00, I'd fast-forward through the commercials and be out of my house by 7:55 at the latest. Holy Crap. I cannot tell you how many time-outs, commercials, referees huddling to review plays and decide calls, etc., happened in those 20:00 minutes, but it was insane. For me to get out of my house in time I had to not only ff through the commercials but also the 30 second timeouts where they don't go to commercial (and I usually like hearing the commentary during those) AND even the foul shots. The fact that it became a 2 point game at around the 4:30 mark and they kept stopping play was just killing me. PLAY THE GAME! The only thing worse than college hoops games are college football games. And actually college hoops aren't all that long (I mean the games are only only 40 minutes) it's just that the end takes forever. Too many damn time-outs if you want my opinion although I suppose there is some logic in the idea that these kids are at least theoretically being taught the game (even though I suspect that coaches wanting to be seen as controlling every movement on the court is the more likely culprit). But on the gridiron side, even regular season college matchups are being scheduled in 3-1/2 hour blocks now and frequently games run past even that. And then the bowl games get even worse.

Mets – Willets Point Jan 09 2012 10:20 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

* Giants @ Green Bay gets the late slot on Sunday Hmmmm, Northern Wisconsin in January with most of the game after sunset (kickoff at 3:30 local time) ... Can you say frostbite? Hey, cold temps at Lambeau Field make for legendary football games. Btw, Saturday's game at Foxborough starts at 8pm, and that's a place known for cold evenings in the winter as well.

Frayed Knot Jan 09 2012 12:23 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Mets – Willets Point wrote: Btw, Saturday's game at Foxborough starts at 8pm, and that's a place known for cold evenings in the winter as well. Yes, the NFL once again opts for better anticipated TV ratings at the expense of the paying audience by putting Saturday's California game during the day and the Massachusetts one at night rather than the much more logical (for weather and time) other way around.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 09 2012 01:45 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Frayed Knot wrote: Mets – Willets Point wrote: Btw, Saturday's game at Foxborough starts at 8pm, and that's a place known for cold evenings in the winter as well. Yes, the NFL once again opts for better anticipated TV ratings at the expense of the paying audience by putting Saturday's California game during the day and the Massachusetts one at night rather than the much more logical (for weather and time) other way around. Well, yes. The entire modern NFL performance is conceived as a television production.

G-Fafif Jan 10 2012 04:13 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Holy fuck. And I do mean holy... [youtube]gAIQWzW1MIc[/youtube] Tim Tebow's Fire (Lyrics) by John Parr Growin' up Gotta keep your eye on the ball Make it fly, Give it everything, give your all But maybe sometimes if you feel the pain You'll find you're all alone Everything has changed Play the game You know you can't quit until it's won Soldier on Only you can do what must be done You know I'm out there Down on one knee a prisoner And I'm tryin' to break free I can see a new horizon Underneath the blazin' sky I'll be where the eagle's Flyin' higher and higher Gonna be a man in motion All I need's my Broncos team Take me where my future's lyin' Tim Tebow's Fire Oooh... Burnin' up Don't know just how far that I can go (Just how far I go) Soon be home Only just 4 downs to go I can make it I know I can You broke the boy in me But you won't break the man I can see a new horizon blazin' on the Mile High I'll be where the eagle's Flyin' higher and higher Gonna be your man in motion All I need's my Broncos team Take me where my future's lyin' Tim Tebow's Fire I can climb the highest mountain These Broncos can't be beat I can feel St Elmo's Fire burnin' in me Burnin' in me Just once in his life A man has his time And my time is now And I'm comin' alive I can hear the music playin' I can see the banners fly Feel like a man again I'll hold my head high Gonna be a man in motion These Broncos can't be beat Take me where my future's lyin' Tim Tebow's fire (CHORUS) I can climb the highest mountain Cross the wildest sea I can feel St. Elmo's Fire burnin' in me Burnin' Burnin' in me I can feel it burnin' Oooh, burnin' inside of me

Edgy MD Jan 10 2012 04:59 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Wow. Parrfect.

Nymr83 Jan 10 2012 06:18 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

We have a Parody Contest winner!

Ashie62 Jan 10 2012 09:25 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Edgy DC wrote: Absurd how Tebow has turned into a lightning rod in the alleged culture wars. Sure is..I find myself pulling for him just because.

Frayed Knot Jan 11 2012 01:32 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

I find myself pulling for Tebow too although I'm pretty much indifferent to all the whole culture wars stuff. I'm much more intrigued by the whole reluctance within coaching ranks in dealing with QBs who are outside their narrow and predetermined mold. That attitude, more than overt racism, is what kept black QBs off the field for so long and it continues to be true for most short or running or otherwise 'unconventional' types. It's like those guys have to prove over and over again that they can play while the square-jawed, 6'-5" rifle-armed stiffs have years to prove that they can't. Does that mean I know he'll succeed and that all these nay-sayers are wrong? Hardly, but I would like to see the talking heads in the league and the media at least slow down their search under every rock for reasons why they're sure he'll fail even as he isn't. It's like they're a bunch of scientists looking at the results of a lab experiment and saying; 'well sure it works in practice, but will it work in theory?'

Ceetar Jan 11 2012 01:41 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Frayed Knot wrote: Does that mean I know he'll succeed and that all these nay-sayers are wrong? Hardly, but I would like to see the talking heads in the league and the media at least slow down their search under every rock for reasons why they're sure he'll fail even as he isn't. It's like they're a bunch of scientists looking at the results of a lab experiment and saying; 'well sure it works in practice, but will it work in theory?' He's getting a lot of right-place right-time stuff. I don't watch a ton of non-Giants games, but isn't Cam Newton clearly better? As much as i dislike guys that push their beliefs (Super Bowl commercial..) my bigger objection is to the media covering him like he's more than just another quarterback. Flipping on the radio the other day I was on a non-sports station and they did a weekend recap of the games. New York station clearly, and they rattled off the scores, including the Giants score, and then had 4 sentences of updates about Tebow specifically and the Broncos game.

Frayed Knot Jan 11 2012 01:52 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

The national media has been fascinated by Tebow from even before he was playing regularly; a Heisman trophy (is there a less important award in sports today?) and a couple of national championships will tend to do that and then his religion and back-story attract even more attention. Hell, I heard updates on his status virtually daily during training camp while he was still the 3rd stringer and I don't even live within 2,000 miles of Denver and don't go out of my way to listen to football talk. Then when he started starting and started winning the whole thing really took off.

TransMonk Jan 12 2012 03:58 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

John Parr on NPR discussing his new song now. "We Brits don't get the NFL or NASCAR..." CHA-CHING! Fucking crazy.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 14 2012 06:11 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

what a finish here at Candlestick

Frayed Knot Jan 15 2012 06:22 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Exciting first game. Second game ... not so much.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 15 2012 07:09 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

BetterHalfer got home from work/running errands midway through the fourth quarter, and we began talking about a terrible family-health situation almost immediately, with the game on in front of us. I was visually tracking it, and taking note of goings-on, but focusing on the conversation. Just as she's giving me a key bit of information about future treatment plans, Jimmy Graham scores. I yelped involuntarily. LOUDLY. I don't think I've ever felt more like Central-Casting Commercial Crappy Husband.

metirish Jan 15 2012 07:22 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

A bit over hyped is Tebow, just like whatshisname?

Ceetar Jan 15 2012 08:11 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

metirish wrote: A bit over hyped is Tebow, just like whatshisname? Sanchez?

metirish Jan 15 2012 08:41 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Ceetar wrote: metirish wrote: A bit over hyped is Tebow, just like whatshisname? Sanchez? I was thinking Jesus.

Ceetar Jan 15 2012 08:58 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

metirish wrote: metirish wrote: A bit over hyped is Tebow, just like whatshisname? Sanchez? I was thinking Jesus. that works too.

Frayed Knot Jan 15 2012 09:23 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

I don't think Jesus was over-rated. Felipe was always the best one and even the slap-hitting Matty won himself a batting title which, if anything, made Jesus probably the most over-looked of the brothers.

Nymr83 Jan 15 2012 11:31 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

I couldn't believe the Patriots were available at only -13.5, thanks for the free money!, Te-BLOW is one of the most overhyped players ever. Sanchez takes shit (including from me) for playing better than that! "Tebow Time" is over folks, Jesus can't matchup with THE HOODIE! Never rooted for the Pats before, but that was such an easy payday

Ashie62 Jan 15 2012 03:07 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Good stuff here.... Go Giants!

MFS62 Jan 15 2012 04:40 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

The Packers are losing to the luckiest mother-fuckers on the face of the Earth. (I put a lot of thought into that before I typed it, so it wouldn't come across as too emotional.) Later

metirish Jan 15 2012 05:09 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

I guess the Giants are lucky to have that defense. good game

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 15 2012 05:10 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Whatever. You can tell Buck badly wants to call another Packers game this year.

metirish Jan 15 2012 05:13 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Buck and Aikman are awful ,nothing to say when the Packers went for it and got sacked on 4th down.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 15 2012 05:24 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

T frigging d

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 15 2012 05:44 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Lucky my Aunt Fanny. They completely deserve this outcome.

batmagadanleadoff Jan 15 2012 05:50 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

I'm rooting for the Jints because I root for the Niners.

Ceetar Jan 15 2012 06:19 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

well, it looks like Coughlin's job is safe. ;-) Eli's looking pretty Elite. bring on the gold diggers.

Frayed Knot Jan 15 2012 06:38 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

When the announcers talk about BenJarvis Green-Ellis being tackled by Jason Pierre-Paul, am I the only one who initially assumes that seven players were in on the play?

Ceetar Jan 15 2012 07:19 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Frayed Knot wrote: When the announcers talk about BenJarvis Green-Ellis being tackled by Jason Pierre-Paul, am I the only one who initially assumes that seven players were in on the play? I'd be shocked if Steve Somers doesn't use that line actually, He's constantly referring to JPP as the man with three names.

Frayed Knot Jan 15 2012 07:37 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

So, do you suppose I should eagerly anticipate the various ESPN-geeks* who pounced on the occasion of the StL Cardinals' run to the WS following their mediocre first 2/3 of the season to denounce the MLB season as "meaningless" to say the same thing about the NFL regular season now that the teams who were proclaimed all year as the acknowledged best (Saints & Packers) went out prior even to the conference title game while the Giants can simply snap awake on the heels of their awful 1-6 stretch and knock off teams with superior records in consecutive weeks? * The odious Colin Cowherd comes to mind specifically, although there were others as well

Ceetar Jan 15 2012 07:41 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Frayed Knot wrote: So, do you suppose I should eagerly anticipate the various ESPN-geeks* who pounced on the occasion of the StL Cardinals' run to the WS following their mediocre first 2/3 of the season to denounce the MLB season as "meaningless" to say the same thing about the NFL regular season now that the teams who were proclaimed all year as the acknowledged best (Saints & Packers) went out prior even to the conference title game while the Giants can simply snap awake on the heels of their awful 1-6 stretch and knock off teams with superior records in consecutive weeks? * The odious Colin Cowherd comes to mind specifically, although there were others as well Don't hold your breath. Especially with the Cowherds or Kays of the world that understand sports about as well as the average gas station attendant.

batmagadanleadoff Jan 15 2012 07:46 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Regardless of what the media heads will make of the Saints/Pack early elimination, the idea that the NFL playoffs is to crown the best team is naive, and carries less weight than in any of the other sports. Pro Football, brutally violent as it is, is so physically demanding on its players that it's impossible for teams to play more than a few games a year. This extremely small sample size of games played has its limits, especially when deciding which is the better of two good teams.

batmagadanleadoff Jan 17 2012 11:01 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/ ... s-or-49ers Here's one of what should be many conference championship previews to come. Mike Sando cover the NFC West for ESPN.com and is one of the better NFL writers out there. (Ed. I've been a 49er fan since I was eight years old. Me and the Niners go back to John Brodie and Gene Washington and the last games played at Kezar Stadium). Double Coverage: Giants or 49ers? January, 17, 2012 Jan 17 12:27 PM ET By Mike Sando and Dan Graziano Mid-January. New York Giants vs. San Francisco 49ers at Candlestick Park. Time to break out the parachute pants and the Huey Lewis records and party like it’s 1985. Yeah, the NFC Championship Game has gone retro. But while this matchup brings up a lot of old, cool memories, this year’s 49ers and Giants bring to the party plenty of their own 21st-century storylines. With only two NFC teams left, we thought it’d be fun for the two division bloggers with teams left standing to break down the matchup for our NFC East (Dan Graziano) and NFC West (Mike Sando) communities. Sando has a hunch he knows whom the conventional wisdom is favoring. Sando: You know the league is already printing Brady vs. Manning T-shirts. Graziano: No way, man. No way the Pats keep winning playoff games with that defense. I don't know who will win our Giants-49ers game, but I feel pretty sure that whoever does will beat the Ravens in the Super Bowl. Sando: I’ll agree with you on that Patriots defense, but I’m not sold on the Ravens, either. Perhaps that’s because I’ve seen them fall behind Arizona 24-6 and lose to Seattle. I’ve also seen a struggling Cardinals team lead the Giants by double digits in the fourth quarter. I’ve seen Charlie Whitehurst beat the Giants at MetLife Stadium, too. But as the up-and-down Giants know, past performance doesn’t necessarily apply to the present. Graziano: Ain’t that the truth. Just four weeks ago, this team was 7-7 and reeling from its second loss of the year to the Redskins. What’s happened since has been utterly amazing. They’ve dominated the Jets, Cowboys, Falcons and Packers, basically ending all four teams’ seasons in the process. Sando: The Packers? I remember them. Say, was that Evian water Eli Manning was sipping in the pocket at Lambeau? The treatment Green Bay's defense accorded him was truly first class. Loved the palm fronds. Seriously, though, I thought the game clock was going to expire on a couple of those Manning drop backs. The 49ers' defense will make him work. Graziano: There's no question Manning and the Giants will get a tougher test from the 49ers' defense. Even if you ignore the Packers' lack of a pass rush relative to what the Niners bring, how about the coverage and the tackling in the secondary? What the Giants see Sunday will be night and day compared to what they saw against a defense that ranked last in the league even while going 15-1. Sando: Justin Smith and Aldon Smith play off each other so well. They combined for nine quarterback hits on Drew Brees. The 49ers were built on the philosophy that bigger, stronger athletes hold up better late in the season, when championships are won. They tackle with bad intentions. Pierre Thomas was the seventh running back they’ve knocked from a game this season. Six did not return. Graziano: I think one of the more interesting aspects of this game for the Giants is that it's a totally different opponent from the ones they've been facing. They've had to beat Dallas, Atlanta and Green Bay the past few weeks -- all high-powered passing offenses with oodles of downfield weapons at wide receiver and tight end. As great as Alex Smith and Vernon Davis were against New Orleans, the 49ers just don't fit that same description. Sando: The 49ers have followed their cross-bay rivals’ old mantra -- just win, baby. They’ve won so many different ways. They’ve got six fourth-quarter comeback victories. They’ve won 48-3. They’ve won 13-8. They’ve won 24-23 after trailing by 20. They held the Saints to 17 points through three-plus quarters, then somehow beat them in a shootout. The way everything fits together on offense, defense and special teams validates what left tackle Joe Staley said the other day. The 49ers are indeed a much more complete team than a lot of people realize. Their limitations have mostly hurt them on the road, where protecting the passer becomes a bit more challenging. Graziano: The Giants' defense always feeds off its pass rush, and surely Smith will see much more pressure than he saw Saturday against the Saints. But I wonder if the Giants need to dial back the aggressiveness a little bit to account for Frank Gore (who basically didn't play in the Week 10 game, collecting zero yards on six carries before leaving with an injury) and the more conservative 49ers' offense. They were so determined to prevent the big play in Green Bay on Sunday, and they managed to stay disciplined, keeping the safeties back and making sure to keep the play in front of them all day. The strategy will have to change against San Francisco, and I'm curious about the ways in which the Giants' defense might look and play different this week. Sando: The Giants are so much healthier on defense this time around. They ran out of linebackers against the 49ers last time and it killed them on Kendall Hunter's big TD run. They were also without Ahmad Bradshaw, although I don't think the Giants' ground game is all that relevant. Beating the 49ers requires striking through the air. The 49ers were 12-0 when allowing more than 2.6 yards per rush and 11-1 when allowing more than 55 yards rushing. They were even 3-1 when opponents had 25-plus carries. But the 49ers either lost or barely won when opponents averaged 7.0 yards per called pass play and/or completed 65 percent of their throws. Manning hit those marks almost exactly the last time. Graziano: Well, as much as the Giants' run game has improved over the past six or seven weeks, they are a passing team. Manning went over 4,000 yards for the third year in a row and nearly got to 5,000. He's got all of his wide receiver healthy. And in their last four games, the Giants have had TD passes of 99, 74, 72, 27, 66 and 37 yards. The four big ones on that list were short passes that either Victor Cruz or Hakeem Nicks caught and then took to the house due to some poor coverage and/or tackling by the Jets, Cowboys, Falcons and Packers. From what I saw from the Carlos Rogers and the Niners on Saturday (sorry, can't resist a Rogers reference for my angry Redskins fans), the Giants should have a tougher time finding those kinds of opportunities this time around. Sando: That is mostly true. The 49ers have given up big plays on occasion, though. We all saw it Saturday when Brees suddenly struck for 66- and 44-yard touchdowns. The 49ers gave up 12 pass plays covering at least 40 yards this season. Only four teams gave up more (the Giants gave up seven). Graziano: I think at this point I'd call the Giants "opportunistic," and what goes along with that is playing smart and disciplined. They stick patiently and confidently to their game plan until an opportunity presents itself, and then they pounce. This is a new development over the past few weeks.. Sando: The 49ers are the most opportunistic team in the league. The led the NFL in turnover differential. Unlike the other teams high on that list -- Green Bay, Detroit and New England come to mind -- the 49ers backed their opportunism with fundamentally sound defensive play. They brought added pressure only about 20 percent of the time. In Justin Smith, they have the best defensive player in the playoffs and possibly the league. They have two All-Pro inside linebackers. They hawk the ball through physical play in the secondary. And with forecasters calling for several days of rain, the Giants' receivers will have to deal with slick conditions compounded by a late kickoff. Crowd noise won't help, either. Graziano: Easy there, big guy. It's like I tell my readers: Just because I say something good about one team doesn't mean I'm saying the inverse about another. You seem fairly confident the Niners will win, whereas I still find myself on the fence. So, if you had to play devil's advocate, what's the home team's biggest concern Sunday? What do the Niners have to make sure doesn't go wrong? Sando: That's me, Mr. 49er. I had them winning 6-7 games this season, but I like to tell people I meant six plus seven. I was 50-50 on Saints-49ers and wound up picking San Francisco because of the home field and because, in a blind-squirrel moment, I thought Davis would show up big, especially in the red zone. This one seems like another close call. The 49ers' pass protection is a concern. The team gave up 20 sacks in its three defeats and 28 in its 14 victories. The Giants can win this game if their talented front gets after Alex Smith. They should double-cover Davis and take their chances with the wideouts. The Giants also have the quarterback and wide receivers to score points on anyone. Graziano: I feel your pain, dude. In October, when the Giants showed up at No. 10 in the Power Rankings, I wrote, "If the Giants are a top-10 team in the NFL, then I'm a pineapple." This has earned me no small amount of justified grief from my Giants fans. Two weeks ago, I did my predictions video as a pineapple. I guess if I got a call this week from Jim Harbaugh and he told me, "Dan, you've seen the Giants a lot. What's the most important thing I need to make sure and tell my team this week?" I'd say the most important thing he can do is make sure no one on his team thinks they know anything about the Giants based on the Week 10 game. Because this Giants team bears almost no resemblance to that one. I'd also thank Harbaugh for asking, and make sure he knew how flattered I was that he sought my advice. Sando: Thanks, Dan. Hold on a sec. Tom Coughlin's trying to Skype me again. Graziano: Ssssh! Don't tell him I talked to Harbaugh! I think the game comes down to turnovers. If Eli reverts to outdated perceptions and throws two or three picks, the Giants likely can't overcome that. But if the Giants play smart and get a few of their own takeaways as they did Sunday, they're tough to stop right now. Sando: I’ll buy that. The 49ers have committed only one turnover since Week 12. Some might say that makes them due. I’m more inclined to say it makes them dangerous.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 22 2012 03:49 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

4th quarter in Foxboro, Pats lead by 3. Awesome interception via a mid-air correction for Baltimore, which had just given one away themselves.

metirish Jan 22 2012 04:27 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: 4th quarter in Foxboro, Pats lead by 3. Awesome interception via a mid-air correction for Baltimore, which had just given one away themselves. The life of a kicker, its tough. I absolutely loath these Jock on Jock interviews that happen before games, Sharpe with Ray Lewis and now Bradshaw with Smith.

SteveJRogers Jan 22 2012 05:43 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Don't know what is going to be more nauseating for two weeks. Constant talk about Super Bowl 42 in terms of "Where Are They Now" all the issues about Spygate, along with the comparisons of Manning vs Manning and even Eli vs Brady or the comparisons of the Team of the 80s vs the Team of the 00s and specifically Montana vs Brady.

Frayed Knot Jan 22 2012 06:25 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

metirish wrote: I absolutely loath these Jock on Jock interviews that happen before games, Sharpe with Ray Lewis and now Bradshaw with Smith. Yeah, but at least they're journalistically pure and hard-hitting. Yo Big Ben, it's Prime ... (Deion Sanders starting out his "questioning" of Roethsliberger) Don't know what is going to be more nauseating for two weeks. Constant talk about Super Bowl 42 in terms of "Where Are They Now" all the issues about Spygate, along with the comparisons of Manning vs Manning and even Eli vs Brady or the comparisons of the Team of the 80s vs the Team of the 00s and specifically Montana vs Brady. Could be worse, it could have been two weeks of Harbaugh vs Harbaugh complete with lots of interviews with Ma & Pa Harbaugh

Kong76 Jan 22 2012 06:47 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Giants' game a bit of a yawner! Oh wait! TOUCHDOWN Niners!

Edgy MD Jan 22 2012 07:31 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Oh, wait! TOUCHDOWN GIANTERS!

Valadius Jan 22 2012 08:07 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

TWO HEIDI MOMENTS??? WTF!!!!!

metirish Jan 22 2012 08:11 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Jesus, the second game of this double header is starting late

Edgy MD Jan 22 2012 08:27 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Ah, the old "neutral zone infraction." The sort of penalty you can build a Star Trek plot around.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 22 2012 08:28 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Giants shall win.

Edgy MD Jan 22 2012 08:30 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Some big shot coach once said, "Offense brings in fans, but defense wins games." Asked about special teams, he said, "Special teams win playoff games." No, I have no idea who I'm talking about.

metirish Jan 22 2012 08:32 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Edgy DC wrote: Some big shot coach once said, "Offense brings in fans, but defense wins games." Asked about special teams, he said, "Special teams win playoff games." No, I have no idea who I'm talking about. pretty sure Francesa took credit for that

Edgy MD Jan 22 2012 08:34 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Francessa is a tool.

Mets – Willets Point Jan 22 2012 08:35 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

"What? Those Patsies didn't run up the score? They suck. Fire Belichek! Trade Brady! Oh wait! They're going to the Super Bowl. And the Giants and Niners are in OT. Send 'em both to Indy. The Pats will kick both their asses and bring the Lombardi Trophy back to where it rightly belongs! Boo-yah!"

Frayed Knot Jan 22 2012 08:48 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

FOX's idea of following the game with a "special edition" of AMERICAN IDOL backfires a bit as the lengthy game means the teen-friendly show won't end until nearly midnight on a school/work night. Also, ya gotta love the deals the networks cut with the NFL. There was obviously a requirement that FOX promote next week's PRO BOWL even though it isn't on FOX (NBC has it) because there were at least a half-dozen different teasers read by Buck during their game. But the funny part is that each time it said to "check your local listings" for time and channel - as if to say, 'yeah the PB game will be held next Sunday but the time slot and network carrying it are still undecided'.

MFS62 Jan 22 2012 08:56 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

metirish wrote: The life of a kicker, its tough. The last time Ray Lewis saw a shank like that, he had been arrested. Later

Frayed Knot Jan 22 2012 08:59 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

MFS62 wrote: metirish wrote: The life of a kicker, its tough. The last time Ray Lewis saw a shank like that, he had been arrested. Amazing, ain't it, that that guy can plead guilty of obstruction of justice in a double murder and still wind up as the face of the league?

Ashie62 Jan 22 2012 09:00 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

The Giants win the pennant!!!

MFS62 Jan 23 2012 07:41 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Of course it wasn't luck. That punt off a guy's knee is right there in the playbook. Later

Benjamin Grimm Jan 23 2012 07:43 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

And so is the ground ball between the first baseman's legs.

Edgy MD Jan 23 2012 09:40 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Why does it seem NFL fandom has become so much about sticking it to the haters? FB posts this morning seem to be along the lines of "President Eli! 58 throws in the rain and wind 0 turnovers. Suck on that haters!!!!!" Does Eli Manning have a legion of haters (besides MFS62)?

Ceetar Jan 23 2012 09:46 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Edgy DC wrote: Why does it seem NFL fandom has become so much about sticking it to the haters? FB posts this morning seem to be along the lines of "President Eli! 58 throws in the rain and wind 0 turnovers. Suck on that haters!!!!!" Does Eli Manning have a legion of haters (besides MFS62)? Mostly pessimistic Giants fans, and from years ago, some of which resurfaced after last season. They're the TRAID DAVID WRONGZ crowd in Metsland.

G-Fafif Jan 23 2012 09:47 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Haters = Critics, as filtered by touchy tribalism.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 23 2012 10:11 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

My comment having watched manning these last few weeks is that he's a pretty good QB in the sense that he can get killed all day long and still make a good play, whereas it seems that guys who look as bad as he does from to time often are that bad. He's definitely not.

TransMonk Jan 23 2012 11:01 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

I'm of the opinion that if the Gmen win the SB and Manning has a low error game, that he should be mentioned in the elite class of today's QBs...which is something I don't think I could have made a case for as little as 6 weeks ago. I think many football observers thought he (and the Giants) got lucky in 2007 and that he is in the second tier of starting QBs. But a second SB win gives him more than his brother, more than Brees, more than Rodgers, more than Favre and as many as Rothelisberger. I do wish he could breathe with his mouth closed, though.

Mets – Willets Point Jan 23 2012 11:15 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Isn't the same argument that Jeter worshipers make regarding his being the best shortstop ever ("It's all about the rings, bay-bee!").

Ceetar Jan 23 2012 11:46 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Mets – Willets Point wrote: Isn't the same argument that Jeter worshipers make regarding his being the best shortstop ever ("It's all about the rings, bay-bee!"). a QBs value to a team is so much greater than a SS though. Eli's not expected to play defense either. Statistically Eli has been in that top tier this year, regardless if where they ended up. He had a really good year.

Edgy MD Jan 23 2012 11:49 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Ceetar wrote: Eli's not expected to play defense either. Neither is Jeter. (WHOMP!)

Ceetar Jan 23 2012 11:51 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Edgy DC wrote: Ceetar wrote: Eli's not expected to play defense either. Neither is Jeter. (WHOMP!) It's why they got Granderson originally, so they could pair him with Gardner so they'd have a talented CF playing LF for all the extra plays he has to make on ground balls to the left side.

TransMonk Jan 23 2012 12:39 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Mets – Willets Point wrote: Isn't the same argument that Jeter worshipers make regarding his being the best shortstop ever ("It's all about the rings, bay-bee!"). What exactly are you implying, sir?!?! In all seriousness - I think this is apples and oranges. The QB has a much higher value to his football team than a SS (no matter how great) has to his baseball team. And I did add the caveat that he would need to play at an above-average (low error) level and not merely just be there. If he wins his second SB MVP award, it would hard for me to argue his value as a QB, no matter how much I don't really care for him. So, it's not necessarily about the rings, but his role in winning those rings.

Frayed Knot Jan 23 2012 01:51 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

A lot of the Eli hate goes back to when he was drafted. The Giants gave up some valuable pieces to move up just a couple of spots in the draft for someone who (some claim) wouldn't have been rated that high if his name weren't Manning, and even though other QBs like Roethslisberger & Rivers were also available that same year, and that by NOT trading bodies and draft picks they still would have snagged one of those three. I also think part of it is that he doesn't always look/sound the part of the leading man ... he hasn't got "the good face" as the scouts surrounding Billy Beane were known to say. Thing is though, that strategy, if it hadn't been answered prior to this season, has certainly been answered now. Giant mgmt bet on Eli and there's no longer any answer other than to say that they won the bet. Which isn't to say they couldn't have had success with one of the other two (R-berger has two SBs even though an occasional a-hole; Rivers has had a good career although not so much this year) but it's virtually impossible to say that they'd have more with someone else and if he's not in the upper realm of elites by now he's shirley knocking at the door.

metirish Jan 23 2012 03:09 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

SF kick returner/wide receiver Kyle Williams receiving death threats on his twitter account , can these assholes be prosecuted? Here's something I just found out , Chi Sox GM Kenny Williams is his dad.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 23 2012 03:22 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Leaving aside the fact that he will have won a second Super Bowl... he will have done most of the heavy lifting this time around. Their defense was injured and lapse-prone most of the year, and their traditionally-strong running offense-- as it was yesterday-- has been almost entirely absent. He threw 39 or more passes in 9 games this year, and put up a Giants record 60 yesterday. They've stayed afloat because he's played like the elite quarterback he termed himself.

Ashie62 Jan 23 2012 03:37 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

How about this....Eli Manning is pretty freaking good..

Gwreck Jan 23 2012 03:54 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

TransMonk wrote: no matter how much I don't really care for him. Is that just a beating-the-Packers thing or is he some kind of a-hole? (Serious question. I am just a casual NFL fan).

TransMonk Jan 23 2012 04:01 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Nah, I'm sure he's a great guy and I've got no love for the Packers, but I'm a Redskins fan and I have the same feeling for him that I have of Chipper Jones or Chase Utley. He's the QB from a division rival of my team. It's mostly jealosy...it's been over 20 years since my team had an above average QB, much less elite.

G-Fafif Jan 23 2012 04:18 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Ashie62 wrote: How about this....Eli Manning is pretty freaking good.. I'll go with that.

metirish Jan 23 2012 04:27 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

I'm no expert but Manning took some hammering in this game, sacked six times and hit how many? , he's good and he's tough.

Ceetar Jan 23 2012 05:14 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

metirish wrote: I'm no expert but Manning took some hammering in this game, sacked six times and hit how many? , he's good and he's tough. Active streak for consecutive games played.

Frayed Knot Jan 23 2012 07:24 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

And all of this with the burden of a HoF-bound older brother and All-Pro father preceding him at that position. Hell, he even stepped into daddy's old shoes at Ole Miss where Pa was a legend back in the day when a white QB star in the deep south was the biggest of legends. Bottom line: the dorky looking dude has done more than all right for himself.

MFS62 Jan 23 2012 09:25 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Edgy DC wrote: Why does it seem NFL fandom has become so much about sticking it to the haters? FB posts this morning seem to be along the lines of "President Eli! 58 throws in the rain and wind 0 turnovers. Suck on that haters!!!!!" Does Eli Manning have a legion of haters (besides MFS62)? Actually, I have no animosity toward Eli himself. Its toward the team he plays for. From what I've been hearing Eli is an ok guy. Later

Mets – Willets Point Jan 24 2012 08:28 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012 Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 24 2012 08:34 AM

TransMonk wrote: Mets – Willets Point wrote: Isn't the same argument that Jeter worshipers make regarding his being the best shortstop ever ("It's all about the rings, bay-bee!"). What exactly are you implying, sir?!?! In all seriousness - I think this is apples and oranges. The QB has a much higher value to his football team than a SS (no matter how great) has to his baseball team. And I did add the caveat that he would need to play at an above-average (low error) level and not merely just be there. If he wins his second SB MVP award, it would hard for me to argue his value as a QB, no matter how much I don't really care for him. So, it's not necessarily about the rings, but his role in winning those rings. I was being a bit facetious, but my point is that acknowledging he's a good QB is one thing but on the other hand,winning two championships does not necessarily make him as good or better than his brother, Brees, Rodgers, Favre and Rothelisberger. That was the part that sounded like the "Jeter apologia" to me because there are certainly other factors that could have prevented these other excellent QBs from winning more championships.

Edgy MD Jan 24 2012 08:33 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

And perhaps helped good Eli to any and all championship rings he might one day wear. In other words, put Terry Bradshaw on the Buccaneers, and he ain't Terry Bradshaw. Heck, put Archie Manning on the Saints.

TransMonk Jan 24 2012 11:48 AM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Mets – Willets Point wrote: ...but my point is that acknowledging he's a good QB is one thing but on the other hand,winning two championships does not necessarily make him as good or better than his brother, Brees, Rodgers, Favre and Rothelisberger. I'd mostly agree with this...but I do think it separates him from the also rans, which is more where I was going. It gives him a credibility that Romo, Cutler, Ryan, Sanchez and Flacco don't have.

Valadius Jan 24 2012 02:02 PM Re: NFL Playoffs 2012

Eli Manning is a better quarterback than Ben Roethlisberger. He is in my mind somewhere around #5 in terms of best quarterbacks in the NFL.