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Sandy Being Stupid

Centerfield Feb 13 2012 03:58 PM

Quote: “It’s a perception,” Alderson acknowledged Sunday. “But I don’t think anybody in the division could add any more talent to their roster than we can. We’re talking about adding Johan Santana. We’re talking about adding Ike Davis. Daniel Murphy was the fifth-leading hitter in the league when he went out with his injury. David Wright missed two months. [All are expected to be full participants in spring training.] We’ve substantially improved our bullpen. “So, did we add talent? I think we did, the fact that we didn’t sign someone for $100 million notwithstanding. … It’s an uphill battle getting that message across.” Feel free to forgive Sandy for any moves/non-moves if you feel his hands have been tied, but I refuse to excuse him for saying stupid shit. You know why it's an uphill battle? Because it's a dumb thing to say. From a year ago, we've lost our two best players (Reyes and Beltran) and our best reliever (Rodriguez). We've replaced them with crap. Just rebuild. Stop insulting our intelligence.

Ceetar Feb 13 2012 04:06 PM Re: Sandy Being Stupid

Quote: “It’s a perception,” Alderson acknowledged Sunday. “But I don’t think anybody in the division could add any more talent to their roster than we can. We’re talking about adding Johan Santana. We’re talking about adding Ike Davis. Daniel Murphy was the fifth-leading hitter in the league when he went out with his injury. David Wright missed two months. [All are expected to be full participants in spring training.] We’ve substantially improved our bullpen. “So, did we add talent? I think we did, the fact that we didn’t sign someone for $100 million notwithstanding. … It’s an uphill battle getting that message across.” Feel free to forgive Sandy for any moves/non-moves if you feel his hands have been tied, but I refuse to excuse him for saying stupid shit. You know why it's an uphill battle? Because it's a dumb thing to say. From a year ago, we've lost our two best players (Reyes and Beltran) and our best reliever (Rodriguez). We've replaced them with crap. Just rebuild. Stop insulting our intelligence. The bullpen looks good, and Duda is replacing Beltran, and none of that looks like crap. For all the talk of payroll drop, it's possible that the payroll on the field could be the same as last year. The "It's a lock for the Mets to finish last" comments out there are dumb things to say.

Ashie62 Feb 13 2012 04:11 PM Re: Sandy Being Stupid

Quote: “It’s a perception,” Alderson acknowledged Sunday. “But I don’t think anybody in the division could add any more talent to their roster than we can. We’re talking about adding Johan Santana. We’re talking about adding Ike Davis. Daniel Murphy was the fifth-leading hitter in the league when he went out with his injury. David Wright missed two months. [All are expected to be full participants in spring training.] We’ve substantially improved our bullpen. “So, did we add talent? I think we did, the fact that we didn’t sign someone for $100 million notwithstanding. … It’s an uphill battle getting that message across.” Feel free to forgive Sandy for any moves/non-moves if you feel his hands have been tied, but I refuse to excuse him for saying stupid shit. You know why it's an uphill battle? Because it's a dumb thing to say. From a year ago, we've lost our two best players (Reyes and Beltran) and our best reliever (Rodriguez). We've replaced them with crap. Just rebuild. Stop insulting our intelligence. The bullpen looks good, and Duda is replacing Beltran, and none of that looks like crap. For all the talk of payroll drop, it's possible that the payroll on the field could be the same as last year. The "It's a lock for the Mets to finish last" comments out there are dumb things to say. I thought 2012 Payroll was down 54 million?

Ceetar Feb 13 2012 04:20 PM Re: Sandy Being Stupid

Quote: “It’s a perception,” Alderson acknowledged Sunday. “But I don’t think anybody in the division could add any more talent to their roster than we can. We’re talking about adding Johan Santana. We’re talking about adding Ike Davis. Daniel Murphy was the fifth-leading hitter in the league when he went out with his injury. David Wright missed two months. [All are expected to be full participants in spring training.] We’ve substantially improved our bullpen. “So, did we add talent? I think we did, the fact that we didn’t sign someone for $100 million notwithstanding. … It’s an uphill battle getting that message across.” Feel free to forgive Sandy for any moves/non-moves if you feel his hands have been tied, but I refuse to excuse him for saying stupid shit. You know why it's an uphill battle? Because it's a dumb thing to say. From a year ago, we've lost our two best players (Reyes and Beltran) and our best reliever (Rodriguez). We've replaced them with crap. Just rebuild. Stop insulting our intelligence. The bullpen looks good, and Duda is replacing Beltran, and none of that looks like crap. For all the talk of payroll drop, it's possible that the payroll on the field could be the same as last year. The "It's a lock for the Mets to finish last" comments out there are dumb things to say. I thought 2012 Payroll was down 54 million? Mets 2011 Payroll of players on the field: $97,202,602

Edgy MD Feb 13 2012 04:39 PM Re: Sandy Being Stupid

I don't know about adding the most --- Washington is adding that Strassberg guy under the same logic --- but that's the tune I'm dancing to. It ignores, of course, that a lot of those guys were available to the team for much of last season, and that they have to be measured against the losses of the partial seasons of Reyes and Beltran and Rodriguez and Capuano. I'm still dancing.

Centerfield Feb 13 2012 04:40 PM Re: Sandy Being Stupid

Quote: “It’s a perception,” Alderson acknowledged Sunday. “But I don’t think anybody in the division could add any more talent to their roster than we can. We’re talking about adding Johan Santana. We’re talking about adding Ike Davis. Daniel Murphy was the fifth-leading hitter in the league when he went out with his injury. David Wright missed two months. [All are expected to be full participants in spring training.] We’ve substantially improved our bullpen. “So, did we add talent? I think we did, the fact that we didn’t sign someone for $100 million notwithstanding. … It’s an uphill battle getting that message across.” Feel free to forgive Sandy for any moves/non-moves if you feel his hands have been tied, but I refuse to excuse him for saying stupid shit. You know why it's an uphill battle? Because it's a dumb thing to say. From a year ago, we've lost our two best players (Reyes and Beltran) and our best reliever (Rodriguez). We've replaced them with crap. Just rebuild. Stop insulting our intelligence. The bullpen looks good, and Duda is replacing Beltran, and none of that looks like crap. For all the talk of payroll drop, it's possible that the payroll on the field could be the same as last year. The "It's a lock for the Mets to finish last" comments out there are dumb things to say. The topic here is adding talent. Duda was here before we lost our good players. The players we've added added this winter do little to make up for the loss in production. And certainly don't result in a net gain. Discussion of how players returning from injury equals a gain is also problematic. If these guys return and there are no significant injuries this year, it will be a net gain. But in any given year, you have a certain number of injuries, guys will miss time. You can't tell. He doesn't think anyone in the division added as much talent to their roster? How about the team that took our best player? Anyone saying that any results are a lock is stupid. You have to look at what is within the realm of reason, and right now, there is no reasonable reason to believe the Mets will be better in 2012 than they were in 2011.

metirish Feb 13 2012 04:56 PM Re: Sandy Being Stupid

Hard to get overly excited about a guy ho hasn't pitched since September 2010, hard to get excited about Torres in CF, if he stinks or gets injured who plays CF. I understand what Alderson is doing but it's a stretch at best.

TransMonk Feb 13 2012 05:04 PM Re: Sandy Being Stupid

metirish wrote: I understand what Alderson is doing but it's a stretch at best. Quickly becoming Sandy's MO, IMO.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 13 2012 05:10 PM Re: Sandy Being Stupid

Perhaps he should only speak/write in 140-character bursts.

Edgy MD Feb 13 2012 06:41 PM Re: Sandy Being Stupid

I believe the Mets will be better in 2012 than they were in 2011.

Ceetar Feb 13 2012 06:54 PM Re: Sandy Being Stupid

Edgy DC wrote: I believe the Mets will be better in 2012 than they were in 2011. and if Sandy didn't believe that, even if it's only publicly, he wouldn't exactly be doing his job.

metsmarathon Feb 13 2012 06:54 PM Re: Sandy Being Stupid

to be fair, since the end of last year, we're replacing jose reyes and angel pagan on the field, with (presumably) johan santana, ike davis, danny murphy, and andres torres. so he's not entirely wrong. now if only we could replace jason bay with jason bay, we'd potentially have something.

RealityChuck Feb 13 2012 07:46 PM Re: Sandy Being Stupid

Last year, even with everything -- injuries and losing Beltran halfway through -- the Mets led the divison in runs scored per game. They'll lose a bit with Reyes gone, but will pick up with the shorter fences. They were also second in the NL in OBA and OPS+ and it only dropped about ten points once Beltran left. Again, there will be a drop-off with Reyes gone, but if they can get a full year from Murphy and Davis, they'll more than make up for it. So the team's offense should be a good one. The starting pitching, though, is very iffy. Only Dickey can be depended on. Niese will probably be strong (if he's not injured again), and Pelfrey and Gee and Santana are big question marks. And there's not much down on the farm that's ready to replace them, either. The bullpen has been improved overall. So can they compete? Depends entirely on the starting pitching. But there's no need to worry about the offense.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 13 2012 08:25 PM Re: Sandy Being Stupid

Thin starting pitching + poor defense is going to make winning difficult every single night. Over the course of a long season it will show. I like the O on the other hand. I don't really care about what Sandy says.

Ceetar Feb 13 2012 08:39 PM Re: Sandy Being Stupid

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Thin starting pitching + poor defense is going to make winning difficult every single night. Over the course of a long season it will show. I like the O on the other hand. I don't really care about what Sandy says. we'll see about the starting pitching. may surprise us. Plus August/September may see some prospects, who knows. I think the defense is getting a little bit of a bad rap, but everyone's going to start out playing the positions they're planning to play all season, so that should help at least a little.

Edgy MD Feb 13 2012 09:09 PM Re: Sandy Being Stupid

Starting pitching prospects coming along fast is like the fourth KEY TO THE SEASON: 1) Johan Santana being a good starting pitcher, if not an excellent one. 2) Jason Bay being Jason Bay, instead of a drain in the middle of our lineup. 3) General improvement in health. 4) A starting pitching prospect or two coming along. In general, I love the O. It doesn't have a leadoff hitter, but it's versatility is enviable. The defense? Well, replacing Ken Oberkfell with Tim Teufel is pro-active, but it doesn't knock my socks off. Still, I have no problem believing, and no problem with Sandy celebrating the chance to find reinvigorated health. If Ike Davis isn't lying to us about the state of his ankle, he has a chance to redecorate the park. And hey, check out the five more homers Lucas Duda might've hit if CitiField had this year's dimensions last year.

Gwreck Feb 13 2012 10:41 PM Re: Sandy Being Stupid

Ceetar wrote: "It's a lock for the Mets to finish last" comments out there are dumb things to say. I'd agree to this. It's not a lock. That being said, it's far more likely that the Mets finish in last than that they make the playoffs, and it would be dumb to suggest otherwise.

Gwreck Feb 13 2012 10:43 PM Re: Sandy Being Stupid

Centerfield wrote: Just rebuild. Stop insulting our intelligence. This. I fully support a full organizational rebuild, and in fact trust Sandy to do that exact job. Just please don't pretend you're putting a team out there with reasonable playoff expectations. Also, Sandy, we don't blame you for the ticket prices and it's not your job to sell tickets. Just focus on fixing the team.

Edgy MD Feb 13 2012 10:46 PM Re: Sandy Being Stupid

Gwreck wrote: Ceetar wrote: "It's a lock for the Mets to finish last" comments out there are dumb things to say. I'd agree to this. It's not a lock. That being said, it's far more likely that the Mets finish in last than that they make the playoffs, and it would be dumb to suggest otherwise. I'm seriously suggesting it.

Vic Sage Feb 14 2012 08:59 AM Re: Sandy Being Stupid

is this turning into another of the "mets-colored glasses" threads we seem to love so much around here? look, Sandy can say what he wants. I disagree with GWRECK; it is part of Sandy's job to sell tickets, not to tell the loyal fanbase that we've got no realistic shot because his shithole bosses have screwed up the team's economics. He doesn't owe us the truth, he owes us the best management of personnel possible under the circumstances to improve the longterm prospects of the franchise. If that means fielding a AAA team with some holdover superstar contracts, and calling it a much improved team that can compete in the post-season, then by all means blow that smoke up our hoohahs. With regard to our offense, I think the loss of the most impactful bats in our lineup last season (Reyes, Beltran), while actually COUNTING ON all everything else to come up positive (i.e., (1) 100% return of post-injury bats of youngsters Murphy and Davis, (2) bounce back of fading vets Bay, Torres and Wright, and (3) continued development of Duda, Tejada and Thole), is just wishful thinking. with regard to our defense, Dickey is the only least bit reliable pitcher. Bullpens are erratic, especially when built around spare parts cast off by other teams, and ours may or may not pick up the slack on our starters. And all these arms are likely to be undermined by fielding with holes all over the place and few above-average defenders. but yes, lets continue the mantra: "the Mets. are. aMAYsing!", if that's what floats yer boat. Whatever, dudes. Personally, i don't need to delude myself to maintain an interest in my team, or in any particular game.

Benjamin Grimm Feb 14 2012 09:15 AM Re: Sandy Being Stupid

I'm with Vic. Sure we're all (including myself) going to hope for that miraculous season where everything breaks the right way and the Mets win the World Series, but it's much more realistic to expect a fourth- or fifth-place season. Yes, the Mets have a decent shot at being better than they were last year, but that's not setting the bar very high. I anticipate that this is going to be a mostly gloomy season dominated by David Wright trade rumors. I hope I'm wrong, but hoping won't make it so.

Ceetar Feb 14 2012 09:34 AM Re: Sandy Being Stupid

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I'm with Vic. Sure we're all (including myself) going to hope for that miraculous season where everything breaks the right way and the Mets win the World Series, but it's much more realistic to expect a fourth- or fifth-place season. Yes, the Mets have a decent shot at being better than they were last year, but that's not setting the bar very high. I anticipate that this is going to be a mostly gloomy season dominated by David Wright trade rumors. I hope I'm wrong, but hoping won't make it so. simply a little better could mean 84ish wins and 'battling' all season. Mets were only 2 behind the Wild Card when they traded Beltran last season. Add Ike and Murphy to that and who knows right? It's also a long season and the Mets have more prospects at the higher ends of the minors. Wouldn't be the most surprising thing in the world if someone comes up and really helps. Sandy's typically preached leaving himself room for adjustments, and that he likes to make trades midseason. so if the Mets really were flirting with it, financial sidebars be damned, he's going to tweak some things. I'm not sure it's deluding or reasonable to not keep an eye out for these things.

G-Fafif Feb 14 2012 09:58 AM Re: Sandy Being Stupid

At their midseason peak, the Mets were never closer than 6-1/2 out of the Wild Card.

metirish Feb 14 2012 10:05 AM Re: Sandy Being Stupid

G-Fafif wrote: At their midseason peak, the Mets were never closer than 6-1/2 out of the Wild Card.

Ceetar Feb 14 2012 10:11 AM Re: Sandy Being Stupid

G-Fafif wrote: At their midseason peak, the Mets were never closer than 6-1/2 out of the Wild Card. the day they traded Beltran they were 2 games (with 3 to play) behind the team that would win the Wild Card. Yes, of course it doesn't always result in the top team collapsing, but what if last year the Mets had chosen to keep Beltran and ADD a pitcher? Just saying anything can happen, and just because things look insurmountable on paper doesn't always mean they are.

G-Fafif Feb 14 2012 10:12 AM Re: Sandy Being Stupid

metirish wrote: G-Fafif wrote: At their midseason peak, the Mets were never closer than 6-1/2 out of the Wild Card. Indeed. Mets flirted with contention in Julys 2004, 2010 and 2011. Didn't mean they were contenders. If Sandy needs to frame the Mets as net-bolstered by the prospective returns of Davis and Santana, versus where they were at the end of 2011, it doesn't come off (to me, anyway) as incredibly crazy or insulting (Reyes's departure notwithstanding). But the best way to get a "message" across is with Davis hitting, Santana pitching and the Mets winning. Everything else is going to slam into a wall of "prove it" until then -- and not wrongly so.

Ceetar Feb 14 2012 10:14 AM Re: Sandy Being Stupid

G-Fafif wrote: If Sandy needs to frame the Mets as net-bolstered by the prospective returns of Davis and Santana, versus where they were at the end of 2011, it doesn't come off (to me, anyway) as incredibly crazy or insulting (Reyes's departure notwithstanding). But the best way to get a "message" across is with Davis hitting, Santana pitching and the Mets winning. Everything else is going to slam into a wall of "prove it" until then -- and not wrongly so. And I think we need to take it as the offseason message that it was. In a week Santana is going to stand on a mound, Davis is going to pick up a bat and we can be off and running.

G-Fafif Feb 14 2012 10:17 AM Re: Sandy Being Stupid

Ceetar wrote: the day they traded Beltran they were 2 games (with 3 to play) behind the team that would win the Wild Card. Where was this information about the Cardinals in late July when it could have been useful? At least Joe Posnanski called the World Series in late August (sort of). Mets had a better record at the 2010 All-Star break than the team that won the 2010 World Series. Shows one team made the most of its opportunities and one didn't. Not sure that hindsight standings indicate 2010 Mets were better than the 2010 Giants or 2011 Mets were nearly as good as the 2011 Cardinals.

Ceetar Feb 14 2012 11:18 AM Re: Sandy Being Stupid

G-Fafif wrote: Ceetar wrote: the day they traded Beltran they were 2 games (with 3 to play) behind the team that would win the Wild Card. Where was this information about the Cardinals in late July when it could have been useful? At least Joe Posnanski called the World Series in late August (sort of). Mets had a better record at the 2010 All-Star break than the team that won the 2010 World Series. Shows one team made the most of its opportunities and one didn't. Not sure that hindsight standings indicate 2010 Mets were better than the 2010 Giants or 2011 Mets were nearly as good as the 2011 Cardinals. Clearly, in hindsight. Maybe the 2012 Mets make the most of their opportunities. I don't think it'd be more or less surprising than the Cardinals or Giants.

Frayed Knot Feb 15 2012 06:54 AM Re: Sandy Being Stupid

Not that I think statements like this prove anything one way or the other - particularly seeing as how it does nothing to solve problems in the short run - but just to throw a few more of Sandy's words on the fire: “I’m very hopeful this is a temporary situation,” Alderson said of the team’s financial problems. “I didn’t come here to operate the Oakland A’s, and I don’t expect to have to do that on a long-term basis and am not doing it currently. “[The franchise] will be revived in short order.” Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/you ... z1mSTj5GOA

metirish Feb 15 2012 07:38 AM Re: Sandy Being Stupid

Stuck in an awful traffic jam going down the Sprain Brook Parkway yesterday I got bored and tuned to the Wfan just in time for Alderson on with Francesa....can I start of by saying I hate how almost any regular guest feeds Mike's ample ego by constantly saying " you know as well as I do Mike"......ugh, no he doesn't; really. leadoff hitter will more likely be one of Torres , Murphy or Tejada, none are ideal candidates Sandy says , Francesa thinks it's too much to ask of Tejada to play SS and hit leadoff, said it several times just in case Alderson didn't hear him. Roster is likely set, maybe one or two spots to fight for , thinks this team will surprise fans.......terrible negativity around the team he understands that. In regards to payroll reduction a lot of fans don't seem to realize that a lot of that deduction occurred with Castillo and Ollie jettisoned when Beltran and Frankie got traded.... I like Alderson and trust that he will do the job, just hope the constraints don't get worse.