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spring training opponents

Farmer Ted Mar 28 2012 03:39 PM

There are 14 other teams in FLA during spring training but the Mets only play six of them (Cards, Marlins, Braves, Astros, Tigers, Nationals). Phillies, NO. Yankees, NO. Boston, NO. Tampa Bay, NO. Minnesota, NO. Toronto, NO. Pittsburgh, NO. Baltimore, NO. Why is this?

TransMonk Mar 28 2012 03:45 PM Re: spring training opponents

Best guess: Millionaires don't like to ride on buses for more than an hour or two if they don't have to.

Farmer Ted Mar 28 2012 04:08 PM Re: spring training opponents

The Mets threw Harvey the other day so they wouldn't expose Dickey to a common opponent (he subsequently pitched in a minor league game that day). This is stupid.

Ceetar Mar 28 2012 04:32 PM Re: spring training opponents

it's a long trip for practice. The Mets occasionally play some of those teams..they played the Red Sox last year. I was there, and I made the trip to PSL afterwards too. It's long. Even the Astros/Braves isn't exactly down the road. This is even written into the Mets lease. If other teams leave, the Mets have an out. I do wish the teams would move to one side of Florida or the other though. Maybe they can entice the Pirates to join them (Bradenton is a dump) although the Red Sox (not happening, new park) or Twins would be better because it's not really a problem to play an AL team 6 times. They don't even usually play the Tigers a lot, because that's practically as far as the Yankees and Phillies. Although they do sorta play the Yankees this year, but it's the day before Opening Day. (The Yankees open in Tampa on Friday) I'm not sure what the answer is. I mean, the workouts and running and all the other stuff (promo shots, photos, medical tests, etc) is important too. You don't want to pick up the whole club for a roadtrip to the west coast for a 3-4 day swing to hit a couple of those teams either.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 28 2012 08:51 PM Re: spring training opponents

Not to pile on another easy target, but ultimately St. Lucie looks like a poor real estate decision by the Wilpons. Location, location, location! Maybe they didn't forsee the Dodgers, O's, MFYs etc leaving but most of them had ancient facilities there. Arizona now has fully half the clubs, I believe. I don't get the impression the city of St. Lucie grew quite the way it was drawn up either. The players and visitors seem to think it sucks beyond it having a Mets presence. Seems like the only solution is to lure another club to share the complex or hope Vero Beach, Ft. Lauderdale, West Palm, Daytona etc can regroup and suck clubs away from the Gulf Coast cities.

Ceetar Mar 28 2012 08:55 PM Re: spring training opponents

What was the impetus for leaving Tampa anyway? Or was Tampa not real nice back then? it's kinda nice that you can run into and interact with the players all around the PSL 'nightlife' but they'd do better attendance-wise too in a real place.

G-Fafif Mar 28 2012 09:14 PM Re: spring training opponents

I don't precisely recall if St. Pete was ditched on merit, save maybe for having to share with the Cardinals. I loved it over there, both as an attendee in my college days and just absorbing it via TV and the papers. St. Lucie was pitched as bigger, better, ready to grow, all ours...and now they need a new cohabitant.

Ceetar Mar 28 2012 09:15 PM Re: spring training opponents

G-Fafif wrote: I don't precisely recall if St. Pete was ditched on merit, save maybe for having to share with the Cardinals. I loved it over there, both as an attendee in my college days and just absorbing it via TV and the papers. St. Lucie was pitched as bigger, better, ready to grow, all ours...and now they need a new cohabitant. My vote is for the Twins! Port Charlotte sucks and its' Red Sox nation down there!

John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 28 2012 09:23 PM Re: spring training opponents

The St Petersburg field was right downtown, right on the water but old and cramped, I don't think one team much less two could successfully have an appropriate modern facility there. I l-o-v-e-d going to games there anyhow. As I recall it, St. Lucie was pitched as the kind of place that would grow like crazy in part behind Mets fans relocating for the good life but I don't think it's done any better than a dozen other masterplanned Florida communities since they moved.

Edgy MD Mar 28 2012 09:39 PM Re: spring training opponents

St. Lue was an enticing business deal with the community rolling over for them. The number of crimes great and small committed against St. Lucians by bored stupid Mets personnel over the years has got to have become a constant source of embarrassment to any civic leaders still living. Anyhow, the Mets do play the Yankees this year and seem committed to keeping the series going beyond the season. I have no problem with the Mets farming out Dickey so as not to give the Phillies too good a look at his magic before the season starts. I always thought, with facilities as big as they are, teams should just take three-game trips to each other's facilities. While the travel contingent is in town, the host team would give them two or three fields to continue their workouts on, they'd be willing to travel further without the one-day turnaround, and the players would love the access to new golf courses.

MFS62 Mar 28 2012 10:00 PM Re: spring training opponents

Edgy, as one of my bosses used to say, "Please don't try to dazzle us with logic". That idea makes too much sense. Later

Ceetar Mar 29 2012 05:32 AM Re: spring training opponents

yeah, I imagine something could be worked out if they really tried. Especially near the end once minor leagues games have started. Hell, the minor leaguers ONLY play the Nats and the Fish I think. Bring some of them along (second bus) and play some minor leaguers against the Red Sox too. When I saw down there in 2009 we stayed in Jupiter at the Marriott and we're pretty sure we saw some Brave players in the elevator. They'd played the Cardinals the day before and were playing the Marlins the next day or something, so they stayed.

bmfc1 Mar 29 2012 05:46 AM Re: spring training opponents

The Nationals maybe moving to the old Red Sox camp in Ft. Meyers. That would be another team leaving the east coast of Florida. The Wilpons went "all in" for PSL but nobody followed, the Orioles and Dodgers left, and now they are part of a lonely group of teams (Astros, Marlins, Cardinals). "Guys!" said that the Mets are trying to get an AL team to share their facility but with so few teams in the area, I wonder if this will happen.

metirish Mar 29 2012 06:34 AM Re: spring training opponents

Cliff Floyd called PSL the "black hole" and apparently a whole lot of people agree. I remember at the time it was cause for some embarrassment to the Mets/Wilpons that he said that, it may have been around the time they were changing names down there to sill things like The Town of Tradition. and here's the sales pitch.....Christ http://www.traditionfl.com/

Ceetar Mar 29 2012 06:48 AM Re: spring training opponents

bmfc1 wrote: The Nationals maybe moving to the old Red Sox camp in Ft. Meyers. That would be another team leaving the east coast of Florida. The Wilpons went "all in" for PSL but nobody followed, the Orioles and Dodgers left, and now they are part of a lonely group of teams (Astros, Marlins, Cardinals). "Guys!" said that the Mets are trying to get an AL team to share their facility but with so few teams in the area, I wonder if this will happen. The Mets have an out if the Nats leave I think, so I'm torn. Maybe that starts an exodus to the gulf side. The Mets did just redo Digital Domain Field, but it wasn't a huge job really. The Jupiter places is nice enough, but it's nothing real special. And That's it. Astros/Braves are in Orlando/Kissimmee, closer to Tampa anyway.

Ceetar Mar 29 2012 06:49 AM Re: spring training opponents

And for all the black hole comments and the digs at PSL...take your typical LI or NJ or upstate suburb and its' really not that much different. Strip malls all over the place, and a few 'popular' places. Yeah, it's not NY..but..

Benjamin Grimm Mar 29 2012 07:13 AM Re: spring training opponents

I rarely do the spring training thing (2008 was my first and so far only visit to Port St. Lucie) so I really don't care where the Mets play. In fact, I wouldn't mind if they moved to Arizona, because if I was to go to spring training, I'd rather be in Arizona than Florida. But having said that, Port St. Lucie didn't seem like a bad place. As Ceetar said, it's a pretty typical suburban town. Is Fort Myers that much more "happenin'" than Port St. Lucie? I'm sure that Miami is, but you can't put all the teams in Miami. Florida's East Coast does seem to be dying out as a spring training site and if that's the case, all I can say is "oh well."

Ceetar Mar 29 2012 07:26 AM Re: spring training opponents

There are no teams in Miami for Spring Training. Florida is just so much closer than Arizona, and there are just so many retired New Yorkers in Florida that I don't think it makes sense from a team stand point. Supposedly the experience in Arizona is better because there's so much less travel (for fans as well. Supposedly you can hit a day and a night game in the same day if you want. constant baseball). Florida is probably my 50th favorite state (and lower than that if you want to mess around with things like DC and PR) so I'd much rather be in Arizona as well. Fort Myers is worse. The whole 'south'west coast of Florida there seemed pretty slummy in my experiences. I saw the Red Sox there last year and we stayed nearby. in 2009 we stayed in/near Bradenton for the Pirates and that wasn't much better. PSL might as well be NYC compared to those places in terms of stuff to do. I've only flown in to Tampa and promptly left so I don't really know how it is up there where the Phillies/etc play. Lakeland just off to the east is pretty nice. is very nice actually, and Tiger Town is awesome. What about north of Tampa a little? there anything going on up there?

bmfc1 Mar 29 2012 07:28 AM Re: spring training opponents

I could care less about the night life at PSL. Good line Ceetar: "PSL might as well be NYC compared to those places in terms of stuff to do." It's not supposed to be Vegas. They need to have a greater variety of opponents, especially more non-NL East opponents, and shorter travel times.

Ceetar Mar 29 2012 07:34 AM Re: spring training opponents

bmfc1 wrote: I could care less about the night life at PSL. Good line Ceetar: "PSL might as well be NYC compared to those places in terms of stuff to do." It's not supposed to be Vegas. They need to have a greater variety of opponents, especially more non-NL East opponents, and shorter travel times. I guess part of the question (and this applies to the Arizona thought as well) is how much do you factor in ticket sales and your customers? How much of Spring Training is getting ready, and how much is providing for fans? Part of the reason the Yankees do so much better than the Mets in terms of attendance down there is because of the relative populations of the area. PSL has beaches and restaurants and bars and bowling alleys. who's vacationing in Bradenton florida? Even if you go down for Spring Training, the games over by 4 and then you have all evening. It's probably just because it's so much NL-east though. Wouldn't really care if they played 10 games against the Twins. or the Blue Jays.

Edgy MD Mar 29 2012 07:45 AM Re: spring training opponents

Ceetar wrote: yeah, I imagine something could be worked out if they really tried. Especially near the end once minor leagues games have started. Hell, the minor leaguers ONLY play the Nats and the Fish I think. Bring some of them along (second bus) and play some minor leaguers against the Red Sox too. I think better yet would be the high school sports model --- where the JV travels to the same school the varsity is hosting, and when the varsity travels, the JV hosts the team coming from that school. If the Mets minor leaguers are in Jupiter or Dunedin for a few days, it means a few fields and dormitories are available for big league visitors to futz around on or in. Vice versa.

Frayed Knot Mar 29 2012 07:46 AM Re: spring training opponents

A lot of that "black hole" stuff that Cliff and others talked about was a lot more true some 10-15 years ago when the town of PSL barely existed, especially for those athletes used to a late-night life-style. By moving there two decades or so ago what the Wilpons did was bet on the area growing and on that point they were correct. The problem now is no longer the town of PSL itself but that the larger area shrank baseball-wise due at first to the Dodgers abandoning Vero and then to the general exodus to Arizona. With fewer - I believe it's just 15 now - teams in the whole state of Florida even if teams were to get together and construct some kind of equitable east-coast/west-coast split you're still only going to have a half-dozen or so opponents in your general area. As for potential moves to Arizona I can't see the east coast teams joining that trend. Not just because of the added travel involved and the loss of their snow-bird spring customers, but almost all the teams are invested in the area through their FSL and/or GCL affiliate teams. The current 15/15 FLA/AZ split is probably about where things are going to settle.

bmfc1 Mar 29 2012 07:48 AM Re: spring training opponents

Ceetar correctly said: "Supposedly you can hit a day and a night game in the same day if you want. constant baseball" Yes, that's true on the "other side" of Florida and in AZ, not so where the Mets are unless the Marlins or Cardinals have a night game while the Mets have a day game (and there are very few night games). Some office friends who are Yankee fans (sigh) went to see their team play a day game and then went to see the Jays that same night. I would think that if the Mets were in an area with more teams, their attendance would rise because of fans from other teams doing that same thing.

Benjamin Grimm Mar 29 2012 07:48 AM Re: spring training opponents

Or really go back to the old way. Pick a spring training site wherever you please: Tulsa, Oklahoma; Mobile, Alabama, or wherever. Play college teams and intrasquad games and then when spring training is over, barnstorm your way back north. If it was good enough for John McGraw, then it's good enough for me.

Ceetar Mar 29 2012 08:02 AM Re: spring training opponents

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Or really go back to the old way. Pick a spring training site wherever you please: Tulsa, Oklahoma; Mobile, Alabama, or wherever. Play college teams and intrasquad games and then when spring training is over, barnstorm your way back north. If it was good enough for John McGraw, then it's good enough for me. I don't think that's work, just due to level of competition issues with trying to get guys used to hitting major league quality pitching. Although.. I guess if you make barnstorming long enough with another ML team. (pick an interleague opponent you don't play that year. Mets and the Orioles, etc. ) It doesn't even have to be a straight trip anymore, which they were doing to break up what was probably a reallllly long train ride back to NY. You could probably zig-zag your way north stopping at minor league stadiums and playing the Orioles every time. Would be nice for the minor league fans too.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 29 2012 08:13 AM Re: spring training opponents

Mainly as a result of the rapid growth the Wilpons saw there, St Lucie got badly beaten up in the housing debacle and the economy there is still pretty rotten, so I'm not sure who'd wanna move there now.

metsguyinmichigan Mar 29 2012 08:30 AM Re: spring training opponents

My parents moved to Jupiter in the early 1990s,and I used to love visiting in March and hitting a whole bunch of games. The Mets were in SPL of course, but the Braves and Expos shared a charming old stadium in West Palm Beach, less than a half-hour south. The MFYs were in Lauderdale, which was not that nice of a park, about an hour south, Dodgertown was about an hour north and the Marlins were in Melbourne about two hours north. Mom would send me to a game a day, sometimes more, as she enjoyed the grandson.