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IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 28 2012 09:39 PM

You know him. You love him. You ask him for pitching tips and stuff. He's given you three starts-of-quality (if not Quality Starts) and a 1.60 FIP through 4 starts. How about some runs, Metsies? Johan's opposite number: Geritol Koosman hisself, Jamie Moyer.

Fman99 Apr 28 2012 09:46 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

I do love Johan. Despite all those awkward moments we shared on the 11th hole fairway. Having said that, check out this box score from Moyer's first appearance against the Mets, 26 years ago this summer. It's stunning to think that this is the same guy, still [crossout]crazy[/crossout] pitching after all these years.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 28 2012 10:56 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Friggin Sisk.

Edgy MD Apr 29 2012 05:52 AM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Sisk? Freakin' HoJo!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 29 2012 10:09 AM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 29 2012 10:21 AM

Aiming to put a lead in Jo hands to protect: CF Nieuwenhuis SS Tejada 2B Murphy 3B Wright (.415/.429/1.164 with 4 HRs/9 XBH vs. Moyer in 54 career PAs) RF Duda LF Hairston (0-for-9 w/ 2 BB career vs. Moyer) 1B Davis C Thole P Santana

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 29 2012 10:19 AM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Victims of change-ing circumstances: 2B Scutaro (2-for-9 w/3 Ks vs. Johan) CF Fowler LF Gonzalez SS Tulowitzki (3-for-7 w/a 2B vs. Johan) RF Cuddyer 1B Giambi (.222/.263/.444 w/ 2 XBH in 19 career PA vs. Johan) C Hernandez (.211/.250/.211 w. 5 Ks in 20 career PA vs. Johan) 3B Nelson P Moyer

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 29 2012 01:18 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Yeah, Hojo. Sorry Doug Sisk. Jim Duquette and Lewin doing this one on Radio. I guess Howie's calling a hockey game. Wright with 2 run dubble in the first.

G-Fafif Apr 29 2012 01:18 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Jesus, Moyer looks as old as me out there.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 29 2012 01:25 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Moyer will be 50 by the time he gets through the 1st inning.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 29 2012 01:28 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Dammit. Should've put foot to throat. How awful do the guys who DIDN'T hit Moyer in that inning feel about themselves?

Ceetar Apr 29 2012 01:29 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Dammit. Should've put foot to throat. How awful do the guys who DIDN'T hit Moyer in that inning feel about themselves? Murphy, Thole, Santana. Murphy and Thole struck out, should feel a little bad although Thole's due for a couple of bad AB. Santana actually hit it hard, just at someone.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 29 2012 01:31 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Thole's was a little more than garden-variety bad-- he chased two out of three pitches outside the zone with the bases drunk.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 29 2012 01:42 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Is it me, or is Carlos Gonzalez just, like, not a very baseball-smart, fundamentally-sound player? He's, like, all reflexes and big arm, like a lefty Hanley with a better reputation.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 29 2012 01:44 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Why BOTHER stealing off of Moyer? It's almost... unsporting.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 29 2012 02:08 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

In the top of the third, Hairston fails to score from first on a long, loopy Ike double, and ends up stranded on third as the inning ends. For a team that doesn't make many stupid outs on the basepaths, the Mets seem really, REALLY awful at this baserunning thing, do they not?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 29 2012 02:32 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

In the 4th, Duda robbed of multiple two-out RBIs by a diving Jason Giambi(!). 9 Mets stranded through 4.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 29 2012 02:40 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

With Carlos Gonzalez on third, Santana freezes Giambi with a 3-2 fastball for his fifth strikeout to end the 4th. Our man is cruising.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 29 2012 02:42 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Congrats, Josh. But it still sounds weird to say, "Home Run, Thole."

Edgy MD Apr 29 2012 02:43 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Jamie Moyer may be the only lefty in the league that Thole will pull for a home run. In the only park in the league that he can do it in, too.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 29 2012 02:45 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

With, like, 25-30 feet loft at apex.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 29 2012 02:48 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Nieuwenhuis. WOW.

soupcan Apr 29 2012 02:48 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Loving that kid in center.

Edgy MD Apr 29 2012 02:51 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

I'm Doug Sisk. I used to pitch against Jamie Moyer. He's still hauling down big league millions and I'm soloing for the early bird special at Bob Adams.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 29 2012 02:52 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Kirk's starting to remind me of a bigger Aaron Rowand, pre-fence-crash. Apparently slotted to LF with Torres back tomorrow.

Frayed Knot Apr 29 2012 02:52 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

I have to say the reports about Nieuwenhuis being questionable as a CF were at best misleading and, at worst, just plain wrong. Maybe a guy his size has to move to a corner spot once he gets a couple more years on him but, for now anyway, this kid can play there. Oh yeah, and we should have a much bigger lead at this point. Thole picked the wrong AB to hit his HR

Ceetar Apr 29 2012 02:54 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Frayed Knot wrote: Maybe a guy his size has to move to a corner spot once he gets a couple more years on him but, for now anyway, this kid can play there. I think this part was the most reasonable of the projections. Maybe he fills out a bit, bulks up, etc, but hey, he can play. I'm not gonna get worked up with him moving to left. Have Torres play a few steps more towards Duda, Kirk'll have plenty of ground to cover.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 29 2012 02:56 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

10 hits for Rube in the series. Maybe the nickname should be Lil' Fonz?

Edgy MD Apr 29 2012 03:02 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Ruben The Hotter.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 29 2012 03:04 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Gonzalez seems to go on first move, like, every time (Gee had him picked off with the fake-to-third/throw-to-first yesterday, only he didn't make the throw). I don't understand how Johan isn't picking him off, unless he just doesn't care.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 29 2012 03:08 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

I have to say, it's a little unsettling seeing Giambi with the whole Reed Richards/Jon Stewart greying-temples business.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 29 2012 03:23 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Johan done after 6 innings/90 pitches. Batista's in. There are three Rockie innings to go. I have butterflies.

Edgy MD Apr 29 2012 03:40 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

i have Tejadaflies. Let's get hit #11, Rube.

Edgy MD Apr 29 2012 03:42 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Infield hit. Gorgeous. All who stood up for Ruben during the offseason uprisings, raise your hands.

Edgy MD Apr 29 2012 03:42 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Boo! Error!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 29 2012 03:44 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Two-out lefty-righty pitching change with one man on? Jim Tracy appears determined to maximize the crowd's minutes-of-baseball-per-dollar value.

Frayed Knot Apr 29 2012 03:57 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Regretting those earlier LOB-sters right about now.

metsguyinmichigan Apr 29 2012 03:58 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Frayed Knot wrote: I have to say the reports about Nieuwenhuis being questionable as a CF were at best misleading and, at worst, just plain wrong. Maybe a guy his size has to move to a corner spot once he gets a couple more years on him but, for now anyway, this kid can play there. I predict a very long rehab assignment for Jason Bay. Take your time.

Edgy MD Apr 29 2012 03:59 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

No way. Bay comes back when he's ready. Big-time LOOGy action happening.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 29 2012 04:02 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Well, I suppose that's some action, there.

themetfairy Apr 29 2012 04:02 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Fuckshit....

PiggiesTomatoes Apr 29 2012 04:02 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

What the fuck!?!?

Edgy MD Apr 29 2012 04:04 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Shoulda had about nine runs by now, man.

metsguyinmichigan Apr 29 2012 04:05 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Santana gets robbed AGAIN.

Frayed Knot Apr 29 2012 04:06 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Frayed Knot wrote: Regretting those earlier LOB-sters right about now. As I was saying ...

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 29 2012 04:11 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Hummel's calling that weird-ass non-strike consistently, at least.

Frayed Knot Apr 29 2012 04:12 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

metsguyinmichigan wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: I have to say the reports about Nieuwenhuis being questionable as a CF were at best misleading and, at worst, just plain wrong. Maybe a guy his size has to move to a corner spot once he gets a couple more years on him but, for now anyway, this kid can play there. I predict a very long rehab assignment for Jason Bay. Take your time. The point isn't about him vs Bay. It's about the word on him as a prospect being that opinions were divided as to his ability to handle CF defensively. If not, of course, he'd have to move to one of the corners which in turn means that his bat becomes that much more critical as far as whether he could hack it as an everyday player. Based on the sampling we've got so far, that isn't a concern anytime in the near future.

metsguyinmichigan Apr 29 2012 04:19 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Man on third, one out -- bring him home!

metsguyinmichigan Apr 29 2012 04:22 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Sigh. Wasting a man at third.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 29 2012 04:23 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Hairston was literally, like, the last guy you'd want up there. Ike? Well, sometimes you eat the b'ar...

TransMonk Apr 29 2012 04:24 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

WTF, Mets? I listened to the first 7 innings on my long bike ride this afternoon and the Mets were cruising and up 4-0. I call my mom and talk to her for a bit and I come back...the game's tied? Fuck me.

TransMonk Apr 29 2012 04:29 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

metsguyinmichigan wrote: Santana gets robbed AGAIN. I wonder if he hates his teammates. If I played on the Mets, I'd stay away from him until he gets a win.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 29 2012 04:31 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Hell, his first year here, run support/poor 'penning likely cost him a Cy. I mean, maybe he's wired differently than the rest of us, but that HAS to cross his mind from time to time.

Nymr83 Apr 29 2012 04:32 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

that purple dinosaur is on my "ugliest mascots" list.

Edgy MD Apr 29 2012 04:33 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Well, yanked after six innings and 90 pitches, you can hardly expect any guarantees.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 29 2012 04:37 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Edgy DC wrote: Well, yanked after six innings and 90 pitches, you can hardly expect any guarantees. Apparently, this is his first start on regular rest, hence the kid-glove treatment. Still... Hey, Baxter.

PiggiesTomatoes Apr 29 2012 04:39 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Alright, let's make this stand up.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 29 2012 04:39 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

KIRKED. (Loogit the legs on Baxy, there, too.)

metsguyinmichigan Apr 29 2012 04:40 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Kirk is a monster!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 29 2012 04:41 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

5 runs on 15 hits (and a handful of free passes, to boot). Shameful.

TransMonk Apr 29 2012 04:48 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

FUUUUUUCK!

PiggiesTomatoes Apr 29 2012 04:48 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Fucking, ugh!

metsguyinmichigan Apr 29 2012 04:48 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

This team absolutely kills me sometimes.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 29 2012 04:54 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Winning run to second now. Another turd from Closer Perd.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 29 2012 04:57 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

HolyhellstayawayfromhimDabidryeeeeeeee... good.

Edgy MD Apr 29 2012 04:57 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

I'm giving Davis beer points for catching that popup.

TransMonk Apr 29 2012 04:58 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

How many times do we have to win this game?

metsguyinmichigan Apr 29 2012 05:02 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

First and third with no outs!!!

metsguyinmichigan Apr 29 2012 05:05 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Yea! Ike! That has to feel good for him.

TransMonk Apr 29 2012 05:08 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

You're all clear, Ramon. Now let's [not] blow this thing and go to Houston!.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 29 2012 05:11 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Rockies fans seem to have that disease where they do the wave during critical game moments and cheer every fly ball to the outfield as if it's going out.

Edgy MD Apr 29 2012 05:12 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

TransMonk wrote: How many times do we have to win this game? One is cool.

TransMonk Apr 29 2012 05:12 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Edgy DC wrote: TransMonk wrote: How many times do we have to win this game? One is cool. It took three...but we get credit for one, which I'll gladly take now.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 29 2012 05:14 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

I think I need to tap the Rockies after that last flyball.

Ceetar Apr 29 2012 05:18 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: I think I need to tap the Rockies after that last flyball. go with Breckenridge, not that crappy yellow fizz the ballpark's named for. Also, I lobby we give Ramirez the win, not the save.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 29 2012 06:36 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

TransMonk wrote: metsguyinmichigan wrote: Santana gets robbed AGAIN. I wonder if he hates his teammates. If I played on the Mets, I'd stay away from him until he gets a win. Eh, I don't care about Santana's stats. But I was pissed off from the first inning today. I mean, you knew that was going to hurt. Still, always nice to win in extras on the road, seems as though the Mets haven't done that in 4 years or so.

Gwreck Apr 29 2012 06:54 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Still, always nice to win in extras on the road, seems as though the Mets haven't done that in 4 years or so. Would you believe the Mets were actually 4-1 in extra-inning games on the road last year? (A much crappier 3-5 at home).

Fman99 Apr 29 2012 07:37 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Not on at my house. Just as well, I was napping, bringing in furniture that I had brought up from my parents' house, playing outside with the kids and grocery shopping.

Edgy MD Apr 30 2012 07:32 AM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

David Wright was on base five times yesterday, in the middle of every rally, and he was playing with a broken finger. He's making a move right now to carry this team like few guys in the history of the franchise have. Even as they gave back the game in two consecutive innings, the team didn't grow demoralized. I'd be surprised if Alderson isn't obsessing right now over how to lock Wright up.

Ceetar Apr 30 2012 07:35 AM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

well, he didn't obsess over locking Reyes up, who practically got a hit in every two games he played it seemed like. Wright is now, literally, more likely to get on base than not and yet he's NOT going to win player of the month honors in the National League.

Frayed Knot Apr 30 2012 07:40 AM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Yeah, I think Kemp pretty much has Player of the Month honors lined up for April. In fact, his April has been so far ahead of everyone else that I think if he has a good game today then he locks up the award for May too!

Edgy MD Apr 30 2012 07:46 AM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Ceetar wrote: well, he didn't obsess over locking Reyes up, who practically got a hit in every two games he played it seemed like. The situation was different at many, many levels.

TransMonk Apr 30 2012 07:48 AM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Ceetar wrote: well, he didn't obsess over locking Reyes up, who practically got a hit in every two games he played it seemed like. Production that leads to wins trumps production that doesn't, though. The Marlins might be seeing that side of the coin right now.

Ceetar Apr 30 2012 07:50 AM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Edgy DC wrote: Ceetar wrote: well, he didn't obsess over locking Reyes up, who practically got a hit in every two games he played it seemed like. The situation was different at many, many levels. Every situation is different. But the plan to keep good players on your team should not really change that much. Ceetar wrote: well, he didn't obsess over locking Reyes up, who practically got a hit in every two games he played it seemed like. Production that leads to wins trumps production that doesn't, though. The Marlins might be seeing that side of the coin right now. Think it's a little deeper than that. Different players, different roles. If Reyes' crazy year didn't lead to as many wins last year, it's at least partly Wright's fault. I could see Alderson, both last year and this one, wondering if maybe he should've spent more time extending his amazin' player in the offseason. buying low instead of high so to speak.

Edgy MD Apr 30 2012 07:52 AM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

It was different on many many levels.

Ceetar Apr 30 2012 07:56 AM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Edgy DC wrote: It was different on many many levels. again, not really. Alderson's job is to have good players on the Mets, not on the Marlins.

TransMonk Apr 30 2012 08:23 AM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Ceetar wrote: I could see Alderson, both last year and this one, wondering if maybe he should've spent more time extending his amazin' player in the offseason. buying low instead of high so to speak. Was either "decision" really Sandy's to make? You've got to have money to make offers.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 30 2012 08:26 AM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Ceetar wrote: Edgy DC wrote: It was different on many many levels. again, not really. Alderson's job is to have good players on the Mets, not on the Marlins. That's really oversimplifying things. If what you say is true, then why the hell didn't he sign Pujols and Fielder too?

Edgy MD Apr 30 2012 08:30 AM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

For all we know, Alderson was obsessing over re-signing Reyes. But yes, it was very very different. Let me name twenty levels off the top of my head in which it was very very different. [list=1][*]Reyes was never that good before. Wright has oft been this good. [/*:m] [*]Reyes is a player who derives a large percentage of his value from his legs, yet he has frequently hurt his legs. [/*:m] [*]Reyes is a player who derives a large percentage of his value from his legs, and therefore is a greater risk as he grows older. [/*:m] [*]Alderson started his job with one year left of control over Reyes, but three years left of control over Wright, therefore allowing him to be more intentional, rather than reactionary, over the Wright situation. [/*:m] [*]Reyes, while seemingly like a sweetheart, has demonstrated a penchant for self-centeredness and disengagement when he's unhappy. [/*:m] [*]Reyes spent the majority of the second half hurt season. [/*:m] [*]While Reyes was hurt, his potential replacement performed very well. (.360 OBP!) We have no such data to be so optimistic about Zack Lutz or any potential replacement for Wright. [/*:m] [*]His potential replacement was only 21 and as cheap as a used muffler. [/*:m] [*]Reyes made clear by his second half last year that he was protecting his health by playing a diminished level of aggression to protect his marketability. [/*:m] [*]Wright, by contrast, is playing with a broken pinky --- a re-injury of which could undermine the his option. [/*:m] [*]Alderson operated the team last year with no real picture of the organization's financial outlook in the coming seasons, making it very hard to responsibly assess the viability of a long-term contract for Reyes. [/*:m] [*]A piece of the team was on the market last year, putting great pressure on the management of the team to demonstrate controlled costs. [/*:m] [*]David Wright has pants made of sugar. [/*:m] [*]A bat in the middle of your lineup is more valuable than a leadoff hitter, in general. [/*:m] [*]A declining shortstop is a more fearsome thing than a declining thirdbaseman, in general. [/*:m] [*]The focus in public last year was on the limits of the team's ability to make moves based on the Wilpons' situation. With the lawsuit behind him and the team playing well, Alderson now will be judged for himself, rather than as the Wilpons' fall guy. [/*:m] [*]Wright's productivity now reinforces his ability to sell himself as the MVP candidate he was 2005-2008. Reyes was never such a good player and it was easy to see his excellence last year as a particularly good year by a good player rather than a maintainable level by a Hall-of-Fame candidate. [/*:m] [*]Alderson knows the value of on-base percentage. Wright's career OBP is .382, .081 above his batting average. This year, it's a league-leading .506, .109 above his batting average. Reyes had a career OBP of .340, .050 above his batting average. Last year, it was .384, .047 above his batting average. [/*:m] [*]Reyes and his agent rejected Sandy Alderson's overtures to negotiate at mid-season, really allowing him to psychologically plan for a post-Reyes future. That's not where he's at. [/*:m] [*]Alderson knows that Wright will only look better with more reachable walls. [/*:m] [*]The lights are on at CitiField right now. Folks are enjoying a good run after a season of gloom. Alderson knows that losing Wright would compound the disappointment of losing Reyes, and solidify all the conspiracy theories of management bad faith that were proliferated last season. Signing Wright would dispel ever last one of them. Alderson would be crowned prince --- savior of a franchise.[/*:m][/list:o] Oops, I reached 21. Overshot my target. Cross out whichever one you don't like. It's very very different.

Ceetar Apr 30 2012 08:33 AM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Ceetar wrote: Edgy DC wrote: It was different on many many levels. again, not really. Alderson's job is to have good players on the Mets, not on the Marlins. That's really oversimplifying things. If what you say is true, then why the hell didn't he sign Pujols and Fielder too? I would've supported signing Pujols. That would've been bold though, but I think Pujols is one of the few players that actually would've driven attendance to the point of paying for himself at least for the first couple of years. But I guess if people are under the pretense that this is a pretend 'rebuilding' year of trial and error with prospects, then that doesn't make sense.

Edgy MD Apr 30 2012 08:34 AM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Under a pretense? I think we're chasing a red herring in a new direction here.

The Second Spitter Apr 30 2012 08:39 AM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Edgy DC wrote: [*]David Wright has pants made of sugar. So did Tim Raines and that could get him in the Hall of Fame.

soupcan Apr 30 2012 08:51 AM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Edgy DC wrote: [*]Reyes made clear by his second half last year that he was protecting his health by playing a diminished level of aggression to protect his marketability. I don't know - yeah maybe, but I can't really fault a guy for trying to protect his career. When he was 100% he was always full throttle for the Mets. At least I thought so.

Edgy MD Apr 30 2012 08:54 AM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

You don't have to necessarily fault him to a large extent, but him making that play on top of spurning the Mets at mid-season kind of takes some of the pressure off of Alderson, which is a contrast with Wright's situation now, though it came in the second half.

soupcan Apr 30 2012 08:59 AM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

You could be right, but right or wrong you are the biggest Mets fan ever. God love ya. Sandy should hire you.

Gwreck Apr 30 2012 02:08 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

You make some good points but there are several that I will take umbrage with: Edgy DC wrote: Reyes was never that good before. Reyes WAR: 2006: 5.9 2007: 5.4 2008: 5.3 2011: 5.8 Reyes is a player who derives a large percentage of his value from his legs, yet he has frequently hurt his legs. Games Played: 2005: 161 2006: 153 2007: 160 2008: 159 2010: 133 2011: 126 Reyes, while seemingly like a sweetheart, has demonstrated a penchant for self-centeredness and disengagement when he's unhappy. There's no objective measure for this but if we're discussing the implications of giving him a big pile of cash, it seems unlikely that said big pile of cash is going to make him unhappy. While Reyes was hurt, his potential replacement performed very well. I'll give you "well" without the "very" modifier. 1.6 WAR in 2011 over 376 PAs. David Wright has pants made of sugar. Jose Reyes was the most exciting player the franchise has had in 20 years, if not more. A declining shortstop is a more fearsome thing than a declining thirdbaseman, in general. Assuming you leave him at shortstop and don't move him to another position. Reyes was never such a good player and it was easy to see his excellence last year as a particularly good year by a good player See WAR table above.

TransMonk Apr 30 2012 02:18 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

The lack of production due to injury in 2009 and 2010 cannot just be omitted, though. He has had multiple leg injuries and a large part of his value does come from his legs.

Edgy MD Apr 30 2012 02:21 PM Re: IGT 4/29 @ COL: Nothing from Nothing

Gwreck wrote: You make some good points but there are several that I will take umbrage with: Reyes was never that good before. Reyes WAR: 2006: 5.9 2007: 5.4 2008: 5.3 2011: 5.8 Without disputing WAR, I'm specifically referring to the player he was the first half of 2011 there. Gwreck wrote: Reyes is a player who derives a large percentage of his value from his legs, yet he has frequently hurt his legs. Games Played: 2005: 161 2006: 153 2007: 160 2008: 159 2010: 133 2011: 126 Which I think reasonably demonstrates the two most recent seasons curtailed by injuries that makes one wary of giving a 6-7 year commitment. Don't you think? Gwreck wrote: David Wright has pants made of sugar. Jose Reyes was the most exciting player the franchise has had in 20 years, if not more. Well, I'm really speaking to his overt image-consciousness, which makes working with him easier on a GM. He's boring in this regard, but less stressful to be around. He's a good corporate citizen. Gwreck wrote: A declining shortstop is a more fearsome thing than a declining thirdbaseman, in general. Assuming you leave him at shortstop and don't move him to another position. This also deteriorates his value. Gwreck wrote: Reyes was never such a good player and it was easy to see his excellence last year as a particularly good year by a good player See WAR table above. Without, again, directly disputing the meaning of WAR, the notion that he matched his very best prior season of 2006, despite playing 27 fewer games, I think, leads me to hold my point. Reyes was never that good. And I think Sandy went forward in consciousness that his level of play in the first half of 2011 would be hard to sustain through a large portion of his contract. Your points otherwise are acknowledge on those I didn't answer, and my enthusiasm is duly tempered on those I did answer. I still say that the situations are very different, and Alderson's attitude appears very different.