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Marty on 50ths

G-Fafif Apr 16 2012 04:44 PM

Noble puts the Mets and Astros into respective 50th anniversary perspective. Both are neat articles, to say the least. Here's the money passage from the Mets' column: The Mets are a 50-year-old franchise with roots that seem significantly deeper. Their first game came shortly after Glenn's three orbits and Wilt's 100 points, but their birth seemed to coincide more with Lindbergh's flight and Babe's 60. They have played more games in Queens than the Dodgers played in Ebbets Field or the Giants played in the 46-year incarnation of the fifth Polo Grounds. They were classmates of the Astros, nee Colt .45s, products of the first round of NL expansion. They are markedly more accomplished than the Texas team that will jump to the American League next year with more no-hitters and NL MVP Awards, but more than likely, with merely one pennant and not a single miracle or parade down the Canyon of Heroes.

Ashie62 Apr 16 2012 05:00 PM Re: Marty on 50ths

NY Mets 1964 Worlds Fair-case closed.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 17 2012 06:56 AM Re: Marty on 50ths

Ashie62 wrote: NY Mets 1964 Worlds Fair-case closed. I have no idea what that means!

Frayed Knot Apr 20 2012 11:52 AM Re: Marty on 50ths

MN: The K Corner -- not to mention its many wonderful derivations -- had its genesis in the upper deck in left field at Shea Stadium when Dwight Gooden was doing for K what Zorro had done for Z. -- Maybe I'm off here, but I remember the first displays of Ks in Anaheim during Nolan's games there. My first impression of seeing them for Dwight was that it was kind of an imitation. It became ours but I don't think it started that way. Same with the rhythmic clapping at two strikes which I first heard during Guidry's hey-day in the Bronx. -- And in the chart comparing the two franchises under the Astros article there's this: Players used Mets = 923 Players used Astros = 762 That's a pretty big disparity, much bigger than I'd have ever thought, and I guess it says something about the different ways of going about things between the two although I'm not sure what.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 20 2012 11:55 AM Re: Marty on 50ths

I don't know this for sure, but would suspect those personnel numbers would look a lot closer if we compared them, say, 10 or 11 years ago. Starting with the Steve Phillips years the Mets really tore through players at a whole new level than before.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 20 2012 12:02 PM Re: Marty on 50ths

I'm similarly curious. I wonder what the respective counts were, say, in 1970, 1980, 1990, and 2000. The Mets did accelerate the player count, as Johnny said, some time in the 1990's, but I don't have any idea if the Mets were any different from the other teams. Was there overall change that made most teams start churning through players much more quickly, or is it just a Mets thing?

Benjamin Grimm Apr 20 2012 12:06 PM Re: Marty on 50ths

Mets player counts at the end of "round-numbered" years: 1970: 185 1980: 311 1990: 439 2000: 651 2010: 895

Benjamin Grimm Apr 20 2012 12:20 PM Re: Marty on 50ths

For the Astros (using the data from this page) 1970: 178 1980: 296 1990: 414 2000: 582 2010: 754 Both teams saw an acceleration starting in the 1990's, but the Mets put more pedal to the metal than the Astros did.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 20 2012 12:23 PM Re: Marty on 50ths

I do believe the disabled-list trends league wide spiked around then as well, which would tend to add players (Steroids!!) But still doesn't fully explain the disparity.

Frayed Knot Apr 20 2012 12:40 PM Re: Marty on 50ths

Grimm's stuff looked at another way NEW players introduced for each team during ... 1960s - Mets = 185; Astros = 178 (when obviously ALL players were new) 1970s - Mets = 126; Astros = 118 (minor differences so far) 1980s - Mets = 128; Astros = 118 (still small but surprisingly consistent) 1990s - Mets = 212; Astros = 168 2000s - Mets = 244; Astros = 172 (holy shit those are huge gaps!)

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 20 2012 12:51 PM Re: Marty on 50ths

We need a third team or league averages for a control group!

G-Fafif Apr 20 2012 12:55 PM Re: Marty on 50ths

And here I thought Drayton McLane resorted to erratic hiring and firing policies.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 20 2012 12:56 PM Re: Marty on 50ths

Pilots/Brewers 1970: 78 1980: 220 1990: 334 2000: 514 2010: 728

Benjamin Grimm Apr 20 2012 01:01 PM Re: Marty on 50ths

Kansas City Royals 1970: 51 1980: 158 1990: 299 2000: 496 2010: 735

Benjamin Grimm Apr 20 2012 01:03 PM Re: Marty on 50ths

Los Angeles California Angels of Anaheim, California 1970: 197 1980: 372 1990: 515 2000: 715 2010: 862

Benjamin Grimm Apr 20 2012 01:06 PM Re: Marty on 50ths

San Diego Padres (first player alphabetically: Shawn Abner!) 1970: 55 1980: 196 1990: 329 2000: 528 2010: 807

Edgy MD Apr 20 2012 01:08 PM Re: Marty on 50ths

We'd do well to measure the decades more evenly: 1962-1971 1972-1981 1982-1991 1992-2001 2002-2011

Benjamin Grimm Apr 20 2012 01:08 PM Re: Marty on 50ths

And... this is the last one I'm gonna do. Expos/Nationals 1970: 56 1980: 189 1990: 354 2000: 550 2010: 789

Chad Ochoseis Apr 20 2012 01:47 PM Re: Marty on 50ths

The Mets and Angels (usually) have more money to spend than most of the other 60s expansion teams and have been more willing to invest in free agents and - possibly - to trade prospects for high priced established major leaguers. Also - without checking - the Mets have probably contended more frequently than the other teams, meaning they'd be more likely to make trade deadline moves that would add major league level talent to the org. Just some guesses.