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IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Marlins

Ceetar May 12 2012 02:55 PM

It's Mother's Day. That means pink bats like this one. I don't know why the Mets are using bats in the Marlin's color scheme though. Probables are Jon Niese vs. Carlos Zambrano. Mets are trying to go 6 above .500 for the first time. (and depending on the Nats and Braves fighting for first) The Marlins are trying to avoid dropping back to .500.

Ceetar May 13 2012 08:09 AM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

Andres Torres - CF Kirk Nieuwenhuis - LF David Wright - 3B Lucas Duda - RF Daniel Murphy - 2B Ike Davis - 1B Ronny Cedeno - SS Rob Johnson - C Jonathon Niese - LHP

Ceetar May 13 2012 08:11 AM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

Reyes SS Infante 2B Hanley 3B Kearns LF Stanton RF Sanchez 1B Bonifacio CF Buck C (Buck is a _Male_ goat. this seems inappropriate for Mother's Day. They should've started John Doe) Zambrano P

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 13 2012 10:34 AM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

Ike a late scratch with the flu*. Murph to first, Valdespin to 2B. *On the potential plus side, so is Teufel.

Edgy MD May 13 2012 10:55 AM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

We're in mid-May and already have the second clubhouse flu epidemid.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 13 2012 10:57 AM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

Someone isn't washing their hands after scrappy comebacks.

metsguyinmichigan May 13 2012 11:29 AM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

They should be wearing gloves for the post-victory high fives!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 13 2012 11:31 AM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

Carlos Zambrano just doesn't seem like a rough-age-peer of SugarPants, does he?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 13 2012 11:48 AM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

Niese laboring-- 40-some-odd pitches-- to get through 2. But he's pitching REALLY well once those runners get into scoring position.

metsguyinmichigan May 13 2012 12:15 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

Muprh!!! We have a lead kind of early in the game? Not our usual MO.

Edgy MD May 13 2012 01:11 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

So that Zambrano guy sure has a lot of pitches in that big butt of his. Le's go, pen.

Edgy MD May 13 2012 01:17 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

Fan of letting a pitcher with a shutout continue. < < <

bmfc1 May 13 2012 01:24 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

Yes to that Edgy. Shorty McBunty's over-managing costs the Mets the lead. Ike was too sick to start but he apparently was well enough to bat for Niese who was pitching a shutout. If there was 0 out or 1 out, OK but not 2 out. This one's on you, Shorty.

Gwreck May 13 2012 01:59 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

Maybe Heath will walk in another run here.

Gwreck May 13 2012 02:02 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

Another fantastic Turner plate appearance against Heath Bell!

Edgy MD May 13 2012 02:04 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

Was Sanchez in no man's land there? Great job by Turner, but Gabby was in no position to make the play.

batmagadanleadoff May 13 2012 02:04 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

Amazin'! Amazin'! Amazin'!

metsguyinmichigan May 13 2012 02:15 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

Frank Frank is coming unglued.

Lefty Specialist May 13 2012 02:16 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

Starting to think that Frank Francisco is Not. The. Answer.

Valadius May 13 2012 02:17 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

Get him out of town. I've seen enough.

Gwreck May 13 2012 02:21 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

Gameday shows very clearly that Francisco was squeezed when pitching, and that each of the first three pitches he threw to Buck (none of which were swung at) were strikes.

metsguyinmichigan May 13 2012 02:29 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

Horrible.

TransMonk May 13 2012 02:30 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

What a waste of a series that was. Fuckin' bullpen.

themetfairy May 13 2012 02:30 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

Fuckin' Francisco

bmfc1 May 13 2012 02:31 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

If the bullpen does it's job, that's a sweep. Sandy spent a lot of the little money that the Wilpons gave him for that 'pen. Rauch was a good move but the rest of the moves have stunk.

Valadius May 13 2012 02:36 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

Rauch should be closing. You do NOT give off defeated body language on the mound and you do NOT turn your back on your manager.

batmagadanleadoff May 13 2012 02:42 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

bmfc1 wrote: If the bullpen does it's job, that's a sweep. Sandy spent a lot of the little money that the Wilpons gave him for that 'pen. Rauch was a good move but the rest of the moves have stunk. This isn't so shocking. They're judging pitchers based on 50 or so innings pitched-seasons. That's nothing. That's a coupl'a starts. You watch the right (or wrong) 50 innings pitched, and you might come away thinking that Dillon Gee is Sandy Koufax. Or that Johan Santana is, at best, a minor leaguer. And then on top of that, the IP's thrown by the starters are such that the Mets need about half a dozen dependable relievers instead of just two or three. Too many moving parts. Too much increased likelihood that something will go wrong, that some reliever will screw it up. The best way to minmize dependence on the bullen is by improving the starting rotation. Get better starters. Then get more better starters.

G-Fafif May 13 2012 02:47 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

I know where they got this guy from, but reflexively all I could do when it was over was ask aloud, "Where did they get this guy from?" Somehow "the free agent market after a fairly successful American League career" doesn't seem an adequate answer. Davis and Torres piling on runs with second and third with two out would have been nice, too, I heard myself say in the innings when they didn't. Damn this failure to be perfect.

metsguyinmichigan May 13 2012 02:52 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 14 2012 04:43 AM

batmagadanleadoff wrote: bmfc1 wrote: The best way to minmize dependence on the bullen is by improving the starting rotation. Get better starters. Then get more better starters. Then when you have good starters, let them pitch deeper and not relflexingly go to the seventh-inning guy, eighth-inning guy and closer because that's what most teams do now.

G-Fafif May 13 2012 02:55 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

I understand pinch-hitting to go for it when Niese's turn came up (reluctantly) but a flu-riddled Davis seemed like an addled choice.

Frayed Knot May 13 2012 02:58 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

If they're going to lose these things anyway I wish they'd do it in two and a half hours instead of three and a half - I got other shit to do. It's like these relievers take turns deciding who's turn it is to suck that particular day. Today we obviously had two of them. Frankie was right about those pitches he wasn't getting from the ump on the Buck AB but it doesn't matter. Until you can actually get a major league hitter out you're best off just shutting the fuck up!

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 13 2012 03:05 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

I'm working very hard at not letting this ruin Wifey's mother's day. Geez, what a terrible finish. Even if you think Francisco's the shittiest pitcher in the pen, which he might be, it was probably the right situation for him. The two prior innings were closer to disaster, he had the benefit of a two-run cushion and the buttend of their lineup. Fuck him.

smg58 May 13 2012 03:37 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

I need to avoid watching Met games with my highly cynical father. One guy gets on and he says, "We can't win this." Acosta's first pitch to Kearns was a nice strike on a curveball. Had he thrown that pitch to Hanley, he'd have already been in the dugout, and we'd be complimenting him for minimizing the damage and keeping the team in the game.

Ashie62 May 13 2012 04:15 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

Removing Niese was a mistake plain and simple.

bmfc1 May 13 2012 04:51 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

I agree w/you Ashie62. My son and I argued about it at the time and then after the game. The manager obviously wanted to pad the lead but a) Niese was pitching well and had a strong 6th inning, b) the bullpen sucks, c) there were two out, and d) he sent up Ike Davis who couldn't start because he was ill (and if he was healthy, would have stayed in the game for defense but did not). This was over-managing by Terry and it contributed to the loss.

Chad Ochoseis May 13 2012 05:21 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

Hindsight's a great thing to have. Niese had been very good. He hadn't been great - eight baserunners in six innings, and it could have easily been more but for a couple of good plays by Wright. We had two runners in scoring position late in a tie game with two outs. We needed to maximize the probability of getting those runs in. PHing for Niese was exactly the right thing to do, even if it didn't work out this time. The bullpen has had its hot moments and its cold moments in this small sample size of a season. I'm not ready to avoid it at all costs yet. Davis is sucking now and Baxter is hot, but Davis has a successful season and a half of hitting experience and Baxter has a month of good PHing. It's not obvious who would have been the better choice to PH. I don't know exactly how sick Davis was, and neither does anyone else posting here, unless Ray Ramirez is sneaking in under a fake name.

bmfc1 May 13 2012 05:32 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 13 2012 05:58 PM

"Hindsight's a great thing to have." I wouldn't have written that if I didn't feel that way before the play. An argument can be made either way.

Fman99 May 13 2012 05:49 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

Fuck Francisco in his Latino lead blowing asshole.

Ashie62 May 13 2012 06:13 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

Fman99 wrote: Fuck Francisco in his Latino lead blowing asshole. Like this??

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 13 2012 06:33 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

RE: the Niese move... 5 of those baserunners came in the first two innings-- he'd retired something like 11 of the prior 12 batters heading into the seventh. It's more understandable late in a tie game, or-- moreso-- if the team's behind, with time running out. But Niese was cruising with a two-run lead and no signs of tiring, and Niese on a good day is a better option at that point than anyone in the pen (plus, he handles the bat well enough to pinch-hit for other pitchers). And yes, I did feel that way pre-switch.

Edgy MD May 13 2012 06:36 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

Ashie62 wrote: Removing Niese was a mistake plain and simple. I'm here. Bullpens will always disappoint. The matter-of-course attitude of "The starter's done his job, let's go to the pen" will always bite you in the ass. Why lift a guy who's getting it done to invite the risk that you'll put the game in the hands of a guy who doesn't have his game? Why take the risk that you'll end up having the game on the line and your eighth-best pitcher on the mound? I'm slower to blame the manager. It's the sea he swims in, but I wish he was more of a rebel fish. What exactly are you saving your pitcher for? It's like you haven't done your job unless you've worked everybody into his role. Plan on finishing the game with the same nine guys you started with, and adjust if you have to. The Mets were twice the team the Marlins were this weekend, but just weren't tight.

Ashie62 May 13 2012 06:41 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

It's a series where you get the hell out of that clown stadium and move on to the next town I guess.

Frayed Knot May 13 2012 06:51 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

I didn't have a problem with using a PH there - one hit and a precarious-no-matter-who's-in-there two run lead becomes a three or a four or even a five and more than makes up for whatever you give up in a pitching change if it's even known that you're giving up anything. Taking out the starter and handing things to the pen does NOT always burn you, sometimes the opposite does. An argument could be made that maybe Baxter there would have been the better choice than Ike but that just meant he was available later and Terry's later batting moves all paid off. The gutsy move, I thought, was bringing Turner in in a spot where you were going to have to use Nickeas anyway so the temptation was to save a player and PH him instead. Terry gambled there at being in a tied game with only Hairston left on the roster and, for a time anyway, seemed to hit the jackpot. Either way, I certainly don't see it as cut-n-dried that it was the wrong move and I don't want to NOT make moves due to the assumed failure of the replacements.

Edgy MD May 13 2012 06:59 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

I mean to suggest it always eventually burns you. You cut out after seven, you are almost by definition replacing the more capable pitchers with the lesser ones, and usually by definition replacing the guy who is on his game today with an unknown quality. You do it and you're trending in the wrong direction as far as pitcher effectiveness, and you don't have to be. It's not an assumed failure, it's a guy understood to be lower on the depth chart and less reliable, and therefore --- if the starter's performance hasn't otherwise warranted a move --- a definitively greater risk of failure.

Edgy MD May 13 2012 07:09 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

And lest I be unfair, reviewing the video, Tichenor was squeezing the heck out of him.

Frayed Knot May 13 2012 07:10 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

There's a difference between doing it constantly and doing it just to do it ('Oh look it's the 7th inning, my watch says it's time to replace the starter') and doing it for a legit, even if arguable, reason. Too many of the former will eventually burn you because you are, by definition, venturing into the unknown. But the starter's future is also unknown and there will be times where one inning more is one inning too many.

Edgy MD May 13 2012 07:29 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

The starter's future is unknown, as every future is unknown, but the pattern of success (a shutout!) skews likelihood in his favor, relative to his untested peers. With every successful batter, that skews more. Continuing to commit to your starter until actual indications of failure present themselves does not have to be done one inning at a time (by which time relieving him may be a moot point), but you can commit to him one out at a time, one batter, one pitch. Keep and eye on him, keep relievers warmed and ready, but don't pull him because of some idea that the eighth inning is somebody else's job, or some baseless notion that the human arm is decimally programmed to weaken after 100 pitches. I concur that lifting him for a pinch-hitter has an arguable benefit. I'd argue against that, and I'd certainly support Baxter's bat instead. But that's second guessing. I wanted Niese to hit. But I guess I knew he wouldn't, so I'll drop out.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 13 2012 10:05 PM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

Also, it always starts with Bonifacio, doesn't it?

Frayed Knot May 14 2012 07:01 AM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

It seems that Niese was also suffering from the old catch-all "flu-like symptoms", something which may have been a factor in the whole PH-vs-not discussion. Former SI writer Steve Rushin once did an entire piece based around sports and its use of the phrase 'flu-like symptoms'.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 14 2012 07:57 AM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

Actually that was me pretending to be Rushin.

G-Fafif May 14 2012 08:25 AM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

Steve Rushin: Current SI writer.

Frayed Knot May 14 2012 09:58 AM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

Steve Rushin: Current SI writer. Didn't realize he had gone back. Shows how much I've lost touch with SI.

Ceetar May 14 2012 10:09 AM Re: IGT 5/13/12 Deloris Wright's Mets @ Isabel Ramirez's Mar

Steve Rushin: Current SI writer. Didn't realize he had gone back. Shows how much I've lost touch with SI. I found a 199..2 i think, issue of the swimsuit edition.