May 08 2012 12:53 PM
Re: Catcher Next
And on cue:
 Adam Rubin ? @AdamRubinESPNAs expected, I'm hearing Rob Johnson has been dispatched from Bisons to Philly. #mets |
D'oh!
Master Index of Archived Threads
Catcher Next
| Let's call up Jean Luc Blacquiere! We'd have two Enterprise captains! | 0 votes |
| Let's call up Lucas May! We'd have two Lucases! | 4 votes |
| Let's call up Rob Johnson! He's the King of the Delta Blues! | 0 votes |
| Let's be cool and gutsy and stick with Vinny Rottino as Nickeas' sole backup! | 2 votes |
| Other! Juan Centeno! Kai Gronauer! Cam Maron! Let's go crazy! | 0 votes |
| Edgy MD May 07 2012 08:44 PM |
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So, if the Mets look to be without Thole for a day or two, they've got to look at their depth at catcher. Very interesting in that they built their catching depth this offseason around guys who can play other positions --- May, Johnson, and Rottino, knowing such guys can stick as third-stringers while they help out elsewhere. All three, I think, lasted until the later cuts at camp.
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket May 07 2012 08:45 PM Re: Catcher Next |
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Dock Doyle or nothing.
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| Edgy MD May 07 2012 08:47 PM Re: Catcher Next |
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Isn't Doyle choking down a suspension or something?
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| Nymr83 May 07 2012 08:54 PM Re: Catcher Next |
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New this year is the SEVEN day DL on which clubs can place players with concusssion symptoms. May help the Mets decide to play it safe with Thole.
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| Ceetar May 07 2012 09:45 PM Re: Catcher Next |
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I think I favor May. He's been playing pretty well, has some power, and well, the calendar in his favor. And he doesn't walk less than Rob Johnson.
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 07 2012 10:20 PM Re: Catcher Next |
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Nickeas is our legit defensive catcher, so might as well amp up the power if you'll 7-day Thole (probably the wisest course). Plus, in a season like this, I like weird, multi-position-eligible guys. Since we've already got Rottino, gimme ham-gloved Lucas May. Gimme all the Lucases you got.
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| Edgy MD May 07 2012 10:35 PM Re: Catcher Next |
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Exactly. It's fun when the manager has a wide assortment of options for defensive alignments, even if none of them are particularly good options.
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| Vic Sage May 08 2012 07:47 AM Re: Catcher Next |
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Lucas rhymes with mucus,
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 08 2012 12:41 PM Re: Catcher Next |
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Toby Hyde makes a passable-- if not terribly enthusiastic-- case for one of the options here:
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| Edgy MD May 08 2012 12:53 PM Re: Catcher Next |
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And on cue:
D'oh!
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 08 2012 01:05 PM Re: Catcher Next |
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He's been the one starting at AAA, and has more-- albeit terrible-- major-league experience, so... yeah, it still doesn't really make sense, but it makes "baseball sense," in a way similar to the "closing experience" thing.
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket May 08 2012 01:05 PM Re: Catcher Next |
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You wonder why Johnson has a reputation as a defensive catcher then?
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| Ceetar May 08 2012 01:07 PM Re: Catcher Next |
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I suspect Nickeas is going to get at least half those starts anyway.
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 08 2012 01:12 PM Re: Catcher Next |
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Since I saw the Hyde thing, I've been intermittently looking for anything online that contradicts that account of his defense... and coming up empty. Fangraphs UZR, B-R fielding numbers, traditional fielding stats, anecdotal evidence... it all paints a picture of a poor-to-very-poor receiver with half-decent throwing numbers. I wonder if lazy FO folk-- ahem, from other teams, of course-- just looked at his MLB experience, his wretched batting stats, and figured he MUST be good defensively to get that much playing time.
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| Ceetar May 08 2012 01:13 PM Re: Catcher Next |
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yeah, I find it hard to understand what they saw in him to bring him in in the first place, and why he's the third string guy.
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| Edgy MD May 08 2012 01:31 PM Re: Catcher Next |
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I'm gonna guess they had their reasons for bringing his ass into camp. In Rottino, May, and Johnson, they get three guys (1) who can catch, (2) but aren't necessarily catchers, (3) can play all around, (4) have hit, (5) but have not in the bigs, and (6) at least in two of these cases, are on the right side of 30. I think they did their research and decided that this was a profitable archetype to invest in with their AAAA-designated dollars.
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| Benjamin Grimm May 08 2012 01:53 PM Re: Catcher Next |
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I think they should activate Ron Hodges.
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| vtmet May 08 2012 01:54 PM Re: Catcher Next |
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Jean Luc Blacquiere
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| vtmet May 08 2012 02:07 PM Re: Catcher Next |
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apparently, Felix Hernandez pitched pretty well when Johnson was his catcher (then again, it's not like he was catching Oliver Perez)... 3 catchers have caught King Felix for the bulk of his career starts (Kenji Johjima, Rob Johnson and Miguel Olivo) & out of those 3, King Felix had his best ERA when Johnson was behind the plate: Felix splits by top 3 catchers (in terms of games, not ERA): Kenji: 4.21 ERA; .274 BAA; .334 OBP; .419 slugging %; .753 OPS; 72 games; 455 innings; 6.32 innings/start; Johnson: 2.53 ERA; .228 BAA; .289 OBP; .318 Slg %; .607 OPS; 48 games; 341 innings; 7.10 innings/start; Olivo: 3.32 ERA; .242 BAA; .300 OBP; .350 Slg %; .650 OPS; 31 games; 222 innings; 7.16 innings/start; http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... &t=p#catch Unfortunately, he's not gonna be catching King Felix in a Mets uniform however...
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| Edgy MD May 08 2012 02:17 PM Re: Catcher Next |
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That's a good stat, though.
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| metsmarathon May 08 2012 02:25 PM Re: Catcher Next |
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how does it compare with other of seattle's pitchers? do they all or mostly all do better with johnson, or is it just a king felix type of thing?
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| vtmet May 08 2012 02:30 PM Re: Catcher Next |
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King Felix was the only pitcher that immediately came to mind (I honestly know every little about the recent Mariners because they aren't very good...I know a little more about the Ancient Mariners)...but you can look up each individual Mariner pitcher's splits by catcher if you so choose ( http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SEA/ )...2007 through 2011 are the years in question by the way...
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| Edgy MD May 08 2012 02:36 PM Re: Catcher Next |
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I'll take Washburn...
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket May 08 2012 02:38 PM Re: Catcher Next |
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Jason Vargas seemed largely unaffected in 2010 and pitched better with Johnson in 2009 than with Kenji Jojima.
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| Ceetar May 08 2012 02:45 PM Re: Catcher Next |
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It's worth pointing out that defensive metrics are already really sketchy and catching ones doubly so.
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| Edgy MD May 08 2012 02:48 PM Re: Catcher Next |
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Consider us so advised.
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| vtmet May 08 2012 02:57 PM Re: Catcher Next |
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I don't remember much about Washburn, other than he was a hyped LHP that didn't really live up to expectations (not bad career numbers, but not Tom Glavine type of success either)... Based on Johnson's success with Washburn, it might be interesting to see how Niese would do with a few starts with Johnson...Niese's numbers seem to vary quite a bit from catcher to catcher, and he doesn't have particularly good numbers with Thole (4.66 ERA in 32 games)... http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... &t=p#catch
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 08 2012 03:21 PM Re: Catcher Next |
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It's worth emphasizing that catcher ERA is maybe the worst/stat-noisiest of these, as well. But yeah, here are the numbers, for your perusal-- 50-plus inning catchers over his tenure there. 2008 Kenji Johjima 833 1/3 innings, 4.57 ERA, .276/.352/.426, 1.62 K/BB Jeff Clement 292 innings, 5.05 ERA, .274/.347/.439, 1.61 K/BB Jamie Burke 246 innings, 4.79 ERA, .276/.347/.432, 1.70 K/BB Rob Johnson 64 innings, 5.06 ERA, .296/.384/.502, 1.48 K/BB 2009 Rob Johnson 684 1/3 innings, 3.22 ERA, .234/.299/.361, 2.23 K/BB Kenji Johjima 580 innings, 4.84 ERA, .262/.336/.441, 1.71 K/BB Jamie Burke 96 2/3 innings, 2.98 ERA, .239/.312/.338, 1.79 K/BB Adam Moore 57 innings, 2.53 ERA, .230/.301/.347, 1.86 K/BB 2010 Adam Moore 514 2/3 innings, 3.62 ERA, .239/.305/.378, 2.08 K/BB Rob Johnson 510 2/3 innings, 3.97 ERA, .260/.314/.400, 2.33 K/BB Josh Bard 304 innings, 4.29 ERA, .265/.313/.426, 2.44 K/BB Eliezer Alfonzo 91 innings, 4.65 ERA, .276/.350/.471, 1.41 K/BB
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| vtmet May 08 2012 03:27 PM Re: Catcher Next |
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I kind of had to scoff at that article when the author decided to shoot down Catcher's ERA by comparing Micheal Barrett to Jason Varitek...one being a career National League catcher, with the other being a career AL East catcher playing 1/2 of his games in Fenway Park...of course the NL catcher is going to have a better CERA...And obviously, the pitchers are going to have a large affect on the CERA; but it is interesting to notice that at various times, it APPEARS that a particular pitcher's results might be influenced by his battery mate (the guy calling pitch selection and location)...
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 08 2012 04:06 PM Re: Catcher Next |
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But there's so much other noise/random variance, even if you're comparing performance with two catchers and the same pitcher. If all you have is the appearance of different performance, well... it's really tough to call it a trend, rather than a collision of random circumstances.
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| Ceetar May 08 2012 04:19 PM Re: Catcher Next |
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Well, we're probably grasping at straws here in terms of 'best choice to bring up' but the Mets also have more data than we do. Maybe that's telling. A career of seeming to be a good game-caller may hint at some 'why'. Of course, you'd have to figure some of that has to do with relationship and Johnson does not have that with these pitchers. He doesn't really know what they like to throw and why and how. Well, except he's probably caught Dickey some back in 2008. I wonder if that played in at all. I wonder if he'll catch Dickey's starts.
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| MFS62 May 08 2012 09:34 PM Re: Catcher Next |
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So? Who did they bring up?
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 08 2012 09:36 PM Re: Catcher Next |
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Rob Johnson. And he'll be up for a spell.
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket May 08 2012 09:52 PM Re: Catcher Next |
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Third "Robert Johnson" to play for the Mets.
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| Edgy MD May 08 2012 11:18 PM Re: Catcher Next |
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Did a great job tonight. Did you see how warm that bench looked?
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| Fman99 May 09 2012 06:13 AM Re: Catcher Next |
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Here's my vote:
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| metirish May 09 2012 06:20 AM Re: Catcher Next |
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I like it Fman, and we'd lose nothing in power either and still have the defence.
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| Frayed Knot May 09 2012 07:04 AM Re: Catcher Next |
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And as per Gary last night, the special concussion DL needs to be renewed in 7-day chunks. IOW, no simply deciding that the guy needs more time and keeping him DL'd on an open-ended time frame or through minor league rehab games. Of course they can always swap Johnson out for someone else at any time, but at the end of 7 days Thole needs to: 1) be activated; or 2) be re-7-day DL'd (not sure how many times you can do that) or 3) be transferred to a different DL list (regular 15 or 60 day)
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| Ceetar May 09 2012 07:11 AM Re: Catcher Next |
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I'm sure they're intending to be careful, and likely plan to reup him on the seventh (only need to do it once, after that the 15 is a better option anyway), but I imagine these decisions will be more firmly made early next week.
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