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IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Nymr83 May 28 2012 07:48 AM

Justin Turner, ss Daniel Murphy, 2b David Wright, 3b Scott Hairston, cf Lucas Duda, rf Vinny Rottino, lf Ike Davis, 1b Rob Johnson, c Jon Niese, lhp Mets try to keep their winning ways going against Cole Hamels. Mets are 7-12 against lefty starters this year, need to add a righty bat! Cedeno is still hurting so Turner is the SS and leaadoff man. Collins seems to have decided that Toress sucks (and I don't blame him)

Ceetar May 28 2012 08:08 AM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

I wonder if the Mets are subpar against lefties this season because Collins refuses to let his lefties get reps in favor of lesser bats. Of course today it's more a injury thing since Davis and Duda are playing, it's just Kirk sitting for Rottino. Really it's Torres paternity leaving for Rottino since Kirk probably wasn't playing anyway.

Gwreck May 28 2012 09:36 AM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Ceetar wrote: I wonder if the Mets are subpar against lefties this season because Collins refuses to let his lefties get reps in favor of lesser bats. Assuming no injuries, what left handed hitters would you start more against lefty pitchers? Thole? Murphy and Duda already play most of the time. Davis isn't hitting much against either lefties or righties. Hairston has a .321/.368/.604 line against lefties this year, so unless he's replacing David Wright in the lineup, his offensive contributions are a net positive.

Ceetar May 28 2012 09:55 AM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

no, I'm good with Hairston getting AB . Duda's been staying in there mostly because he's hitting lefties. It's more Ike and Kirk. Especially both at once and especially when he also mixes in a day off for Murphy or Thole when he's here.

metsguyinmichigan May 28 2012 10:49 AM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Torres was gone because his wife delivered their child last night. Congrats!

Nymr83 May 28 2012 11:25 AM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Nice job by Niese to prevent a run in an inning where his fielders let two guys on via the error.

Edgy MD May 28 2012 11:54 AM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Too sloppy so far. And as I type, Wiggy busts two runs home with the first hit of the game.

Nymr83 May 28 2012 11:57 AM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Walks Kill.

Edgy MD May 28 2012 12:00 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Rob Johnson now over .200 on his career.

Nymr83 May 28 2012 12:04 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Should have been 1st/3rd 2 out but instead the inning is over and Justin Turner is on the ground hurt...

Edgy MD May 28 2012 12:04 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

David Wright at shorstop! Looks pretty dumb that the team didn't add Valdespin, huh?

bmfc1 May 28 2012 12:06 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY! Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 28 2012 12:06 PM

Did Teufel hold Johnson late so Turner was expecting the throw home which lead him to make a big turn which lead to the injury?

Edgy MD May 28 2012 12:06 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

So is that injury Johnson's fault?

Nymr83 May 28 2012 12:06 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Turner helped off the field. Wright moves from 3B to SS Rottino moves from LF to 3B Niewenhuis enters the game to play CF Hairston moves from CF to LF

Edgy MD May 28 2012 12:09 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Rottino getting the job done fielding the bunt at third.

Edgy MD May 28 2012 12:10 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Is Torres available today? Because if he's not, Baxter and Nickeas are all that's on the bench.

Nymr83 May 28 2012 12:11 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

bmfc1 wrote: Did Teufel hold Johnson late so Turner was expecting the throw home which lead him to make a big turn which lead to the injury? Radio saying that Teufel held Johnson in plemty of time but Johnson rounded the bag before scurrying back anyway. Niese needs a quick inning here to get back on track, 80+ pitches already

Edgy MD May 28 2012 12:14 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

It seems like Turner was holding up, and then suddenly decided to run to give himself up for Johnson, and then Johnson doubled back so he tried to, but too late, and then he had to try and stay in the rundown to get Johnson home. A lot of sudden changes of decisions and potential for traumatic turns each time.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 28 2012 12:15 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Well, SugarPants is sure hitting like a middle-infielder today. Turner's injury has GOT to be a ligament tear, doesn't it?

Edgy MD May 28 2012 12:23 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

I smell ACL surgery. It's a real soccer injury and trying to stay alive in a rundown is pretty soccer-like.

Frayed Knot May 28 2012 12:25 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Frustrating game so far in that Niese is over 100 pitches even while giving up just one hit. Lots of deep counts, those two 1st inning errors, plus several seemingly out-of-the-blue 4-pitch walks are taking their toll on the pitch count. Hamels, meanwhile, has surrendered four hits but is under 50 pitches.

Edgy MD May 28 2012 12:26 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Edgy DC wrote: Is Torres available today? Because if he's not, Baxter and Nickeas are all that's on the bench. Let me ask this one again, because the righthanded Torres would strike me as perhaps an alternative for centerfield.

Edgy MD May 28 2012 12:26 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

We're going to see Dickey pinch-hitting today.

Frayed Knot May 28 2012 12:27 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Edgy DC wrote: I smell ACL surgery. It's a real soccer injury and trying to stay alive in a rundown is pretty soccer-like. He seemed to pull a hammy in his left leg then jammed the right one lunging for the bag. It was the right one he couldn't put weight on while being helped off.

Frayed Knot May 28 2012 12:28 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Edgy DC wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Is Torres available today? Because if he's not, Baxter and Nickeas are all that's on the bench. Let me ask this one again, because the righthanded Torres would strike me as perhaps an alternative for centerfield. Not sure. Where did the birthing take place? If in NYC he might be. If he went back to Puerto Rico or something ...

Edgy MD May 28 2012 12:30 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

[bigpurple:7bskpj0j]KaboomO![/bigpurple:7bskpj0j]

Edgy MD May 28 2012 12:30 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

I just checked the game notes. Terry considers Torres to be available, but as of 8 AM, he hadn't been to bed.

batmagadanleadoff May 28 2012 12:31 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Rottino Home Runs are becoming Routine-o around here.

Edgy MD May 28 2012 12:31 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Sprained right ankle for Turner. X-Rays negative. That's some fast x-raying. That's some good news.

Nymr83 May 28 2012 12:32 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Rottino Home Runs are becoming Routine-o around here. Rottino is grabbing hold of that roster spot and not letting go!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 28 2012 12:35 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Since the leadoff walk, Hamels has had a face on like somebody kicked his favorite purse dog.

Frayed Knot May 28 2012 12:40 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Since the leadoff walk, Hamels has had a face on like somebody kicked his favorite purse dog. And THIS is why we need to revive the Post of the Week/Month process.

Edgy MD May 28 2012 12:43 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Niese hits the shower one batter too late.

bmfc1 May 28 2012 12:44 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Way to stick with your convictions, Shorty.

Nymr83 May 28 2012 12:44 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Niese issues his 5th walk to star the inning, then falls behind 3-0 before allowing a 3-1 pitch homerun... Get him out of here

Edgy MD May 28 2012 12:57 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Hairston, Rottino... I told you this team was good!

Nymr83 May 28 2012 01:01 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

It goes without saying that I benched Hairston for some guy named Aoki in my NL-only league this week (weekly lineups.) He just made me wish I'd slept late instead of checking the computer before I went to work today! Tied again! Come on MLB, jack up the volume on the radio feed so I can hear the 7th inning singing!

Edgy MD May 28 2012 01:18 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

I just had to use the toilet. Couldn't I trust you mugs to keep Collins from pulling Ramirez?

Nymr83 May 28 2012 01:18 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Wiggy is a met-killer today, Phils retake the lead on his single

Edgy MD May 28 2012 01:22 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Rottino-Davis-Johnson coming up. Bring the power, Mets.

Gwreck May 28 2012 01:24 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Gonna need another one of those two-run homers.

Edgy MD May 28 2012 01:36 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Here comes Big Daddy A --- legs out a leadoff double!

Edgy MD May 28 2012 01:37 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Nieuie buntie?

Edgy MD May 28 2012 01:40 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Tying run crosses over. Up to Murphy and Wright to plate it.

Edgy MD May 28 2012 01:41 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Murphy comes up MT. Steal home, Torres!

Gwreck May 28 2012 01:41 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

C'mon David.

Edgy MD May 28 2012 01:46 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Manny Acosta. Anybody see if he brought the gasoline and matches with him?

Frayed Knot May 28 2012 01:53 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Gotta keep this close here so we can see which NYM scrub's turn it is to beat Papelbon

Edgy MD May 28 2012 01:53 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Well that answers my question.

Frayed Knot May 28 2012 01:54 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

or not

Nymr83 May 28 2012 01:54 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Edgy DC wrote: Manny Acosta. Anybody see if he brought the gasoline and matches with him? The matches are ALWAYS in Acosta's back pocket. Batista, Young, and Beato all on their ways back from injury, one of those should clear Manny from the roster

bmfc1 May 28 2012 01:54 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Goodbye Manny.

themetfairy May 28 2012 01:54 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Why is Manny Acosta still on this team?

Fman99 May 28 2012 01:56 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Go away, Manny. You fucking suck.

Edgy MD May 28 2012 02:09 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

The question about why he's on the team is the one I ask after asking why he's in the game. I mean, after two starting pitching masterpieces, they should be able to keep him buried unless a blowout or a marathon happens.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 28 2012 03:44 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

You know, we shouldn't be losing to Ty Fucking Wigginton, especially since what he deserved in this game was to be knocked to his ass for putting our catcher out of commission. Shit effort by the Mets today, 2 errors started Niese's pitch count up too early and interfered with what otherwise could have been a good start, but they fight back for him only to see him walk the first guy he faces after they do it, and have him come home on a homer. F Niese. F. Wigginton. F Muffy for that 1st inning error and for failing to get home Torres with 1 out and the game tied in the 8th. Really. F Rob Johnson for screwing up his moment and getting Turner hurt. F Acosta and Terry and Bobby Pee.

Ashie62 May 28 2012 04:05 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Niese is work in progress. Hard to trust him yet.

Edgy MD May 28 2012 04:16 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

We all works in progress. Manager Terry ran a haphazard team and ran them haphazardly today.

Ceetar May 28 2012 05:14 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Edgy DC wrote: We all works in progress. Manager Terry ran a haphazard team and ran them haphazardly today. you know, it's easy to be frustrated with Terry here, (I agree about using Acosta, use Francisco or even Egbert though. Hell, use Byrdak. My wife even questioned the move who hates Francisco, and hates closers (except Wagner)) but having Niese go out there and ultimately give up the lead again (and quickly) is probably what we preferred he do rather than play 'which reliever doesn't have it today' for four innings. I didn't see the replay, did Turner slow up or was he running to second the whole way? It seems like he assumed Johnson was going to be waved around. I assumed that too, figuring you push the envelope when you have it. In which case it's probably worth the trade out of a possible out at second for the run there right? It sucks not just for SS depth but Turner was hitting the ball well the last couple of days. Dunno if OQ or Valdespin is going to do that.

Edgy MD May 28 2012 05:31 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

I just leave Ramirez in there, and have Rauch or somebody warming for if and when he began to fail. It's easy, it's fun, it's inexpensive, and the whole family can do it.

Edgy MD May 28 2012 05:44 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

I don't know why Keith and Ron don't kill Terry (and every other manager) for this. Torre, of all people, seemed to understand it. If your job is to win, the redemption of the guys one the back end of your roster has to take a back seat to that. You owe it to the fans, you owe it to the owners, you owe it to yourself. It seems important for Terry to build up loyalty and trust with his charges. But Casey Stengel had a different attitude about that. In the 1950s, he was constantly working pitchers not named Ford or Reynolds into and out of rotation based on who was performing. He expressed his loyalty to his players not by making sure everybody got to play, but by trying to put them in the best situation to win the game, to give their efforts the best chance of not being in vain. Let a reliever pitching well go two, three, four(!) innings. Have another guy ready, but for God's sake, don't use who you don't hafta. Maybe I'm romanticizing the past, but I can't imagine Davey Johnson putting Tom Gorman in that game. This is my hobgoblin. Please forgive forgive the carryon.

Ceetar May 28 2012 05:59 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Edgy DC wrote: This is my hobgoblin. Please forgive forgive the carryon. extra carryon will cost you. for the most part I agree with you. I'm not positive it's the best way to go, but I do have a desire not to see effective relievers removed just because it's a new inning, but then they're not exactly working up their arms to do that regularly and there seems to be a sense that it's better to have more bodies available than alternate days. Also, most pens have Acosta types at the back end, and using up your good reliever or two on one day may mean they need a day or two and you're stuck with the third or fourth best guy the next game when you could end up needing the better relievers. Especially when you're down by a run and the game may be lost no matter who you use (hence Acosta or Francisco) The other thing is that this is another one of those things that's going to end up advocating the DH. Wanting relievers to go more innings means letting them hit, letting them hit is clearly a disaster because almost no one actually expects pitchers to work on that part of the game even though it's part of the game.

Frayed Knot May 28 2012 06:37 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Bottom line is we got a bad (or at least erratic) outing from the starter, bad days from the 3 & 4 hitters, a bad day by the defense (courtesy of those same 3 & 4 hitters) and a bad day from most of the bullpen. Not gonna win a lot of games that way. One of the over-looked plays was Wright coming off the bag during a potential force at 2nd. He seemed to think Parnell was going to 1st on the tapped come-backer and then was unprepared for the throw when it came his way. If he hung on the bag not only would he have gotten the force but probably the DP as well. Instead that runner became the go-ahead run.

Edgy MD May 28 2012 08:35 PM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Ceetar wrote: Also, most pens have Acosta types at the back end, and using up your good reliever or two on one day may mean they need a day or two and you're stuck with the third or fourth best guy the next game when you could end up needing the better relievers. Especially when you're down by a run and the game may be lost no matter who you use (hence Acosta or Francisco) I think experience shows you burn through your pen faster using them one inning at a time rather than two.

Nymr83 May 29 2012 06:40 AM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

I don't think there is any evidence that two innings on Monday will burn a guy out faster than one inning monday and one inning tuesday. If anything the guy who threw two on monday and was unavailable tuesday spent less pitches warming up.

Edgy MD May 29 2012 06:46 AM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I mean, we can mine the data but only if you're not satisfied with a simple thought experiment. Two managers have two guys of relatively equal bullpenning skills and applicabliity. The first guy has two guys named Heilman and Sanchez. The second manager has two guys named Wendell and White. Heilman and Sanchez have each pitched 80 innings over 80 games. Wendell and White have each pitched 80 innings over 40 games. You're near the end of the season and are fighting for a playoff spot. Who has the more taxed pair of relievers?

Ceetar May 29 2012 07:18 AM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

what's the pitch count? What's the recent workload? all those play in. But again, I agree with you but I think it's more complicated than 'just use them'. These guys are preparing for one inning for the most part, and aren't accustomed to the feel of their arm and the amount of warm up required to sit for 10-20 minutes and then get back up and pitch on only 8 warm up throws. Leaving aside the pinch hitting wrinkle, I would agree that they should use Ramon Ramirez for multiple innings one day and then Bobby Parnell the next. I think the box managers put themselves in is when you get Bobby up in the 7th and he struggles that day. You'd want to go to Ramon in that situation but probably can't if you had him throw 45 pitches the day before over 2.1. Now you have to use your third or fourth best guy. It does make sense to me. Use Ramon for 2.1 and worry about tomorrow tomorrow. Maybe Gee throws a CG or 8 dominant innings. maybe you score 30. But one of the biggest things managers get criticized for is bullpen use, so they naturally retreat to these defined roles and narrow usage schemas. I do think there is some value to 'defined' roles though, but that's in a preparation way like if Francisco was randomly summoned in the 5th inning of a game. He's mentally set for the 9th, meaning he may still be playing cards in the clubhouse and not having gone through stretches and warmups and the things he'd probably do in the 7th and 8th as he prepares. But if you tell him 'hey, we may use you first if a starter doesn't go long' he'll make sure he's loose before that.

Edgy MD May 29 2012 07:24 AM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

I would think it obvious. Ceetar wrote: what's the pitch count? The same. Ceetar wrote: What's the recent workload? Over the course of a season, the pitchers working the same number of innings in half the games typically get twice the rest between appearances that the other two get. I think the box managers put themselves in is when you get Bobby up in the 7th and he struggles that day. You'd want to go to Ramon in that situation but probably can't if you had him throw 45 pitches the day before over 2.1. Now you have to use your third or fourth best guy. Yes, your options diminish if people fail. But now they use their fourth-best guy almost as a matter or course. And their seventh-best guy in a one-run game. Disastrous. The way we do it now, rather than set up a safety net if a guy fails, actually courts failure, and leaves the closer more likely to never have a safety net.

Ceetar May 29 2012 08:07 AM Re: IGT 5/28: PHUCK PHILLY!

I think the Acosta use yesterday is a different usage pattern anyway. I think Collins, especially if the offense is ever going to wake up/stay healthy together, needs to treat 1-run deficits more like tie games, because the Mets WILL score more runs. Just look at how many 0 ERA relievers the Mets have beat on recently.