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IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

metsguyinmichigan May 30 2012 11:45 AM

Either the Phillies fans are so distraught by the Mets taking the rain-soaked second game of the series that they toppled the Pennsylvania State House or I'm having posting issues. Let's go Mets!

Benjamin Grimm May 30 2012 11:49 AM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

You're showing your age! It hasn't been called "the Pennsylvania State House" in a couple of hundred years!

metsguyinmichigan May 30 2012 11:53 AM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Benjamin Grimm wrote: You're showing your age! It hasn't been called "the Pennsylvania State House" in a couple of hundred years! Oh, that's what you would think! I went on the tour, and the guide said that it's still called that, and "Independence Hall" is a nickname. They get all huffy about it. And the guides don't pose with flags. It was actually pretty moving. I've been there several times over the years, and never once was able to get inside -- until a couple weeks ago.

TransMonk May 30 2012 11:58 AM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Gee vs. Lee...again. I hope it ends as well for us as it did last time.

Benjamin Grimm May 30 2012 11:58 AM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

You finally figured out how to sweet-talk your way past the bouncers, huh?

Ceetar May 30 2012 11:59 AM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

TransMonk wrote: Gee vs. Lee...again. I hope it ends as well for us as it did last time. Phillies are 2-5 when Lee starts and he doesn't have a win.

Benjamin Grimm May 30 2012 12:00 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

But I bet they're undefeated when he starts and does get the win.

Ceetar May 30 2012 12:01 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Benjamin Grimm wrote: But I bet they're undefeated when he starts and does get the win. Nope, lost every game.

metsguyinmichigan May 30 2012 12:06 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Benjamin Grimm wrote: You finally figured out how to sweet-talk your way past the bouncers, huh? Got there early enough to get a ticket for a tour later in the day. The bouncers were not amused by my work backpack, which was packed for the conference with my laptop and all kinds of cords and other stuff. The trooper at the Liberty Bell grumbled openly about having to look through it all -- the backpack has a bunch of zippers and pockets. Hours later I went to the security tent to go inside Independence, err, the Pennsylvania State House, and a burly guy was doing the checks. But it was time for a shift change when it was my turn, and guess who rotated in? Yup, the trooper who was at the Liberty Bell. She was not amused. And try to explain why you are bringing a Mets flag into a national historic site.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 30 2012 12:24 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

What WAS your explanation? (I'm a big Independence Hall fan, too. Visited a bunch when I was in college there. Especially love the smallness of everything, and the slight-to-not-so-slight age warping on the wood floors/staircases.)

metsguyinmichigan May 30 2012 12:37 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

You can't really explain these things to a Phillie-loving park ranger. You just have to give them a look that says, "Of course I have a Mets flag. What, you don't? Seriously?

Benjamin Grimm May 30 2012 12:42 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Are federal employees allowed to have a favorite team?

bmfc1 May 30 2012 12:47 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

I do... Pat Sajak might think we shouldn't: http://www.mediaite.com/online/pat-saja ... ldnt-vote/

Ashie62 May 30 2012 01:03 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Gee-Lee?

Ashie62 May 30 2012 01:03 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Or Kate?

Edgy MD May 30 2012 01:22 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

[list=1:2tiu6blb][*:2tiu6blb]Torres, cf[/*:m:2tiu6blb] [*:2tiu6blb]Murphy, 2b[/*:m:2tiu6blb] [*:2tiu6blb]Wright, 3b[/*:m:2tiu6blb] [*:2tiu6blb]Hairston, lf[/*:m:2tiu6blb] [*:2tiu6blb]Rottino, 1b[/*:m:2tiu6blb] [*:2tiu6blb]Duda, rf[/*:m:2tiu6blb] [*:2tiu6blb]Johnson, c[/*:m:2tiu6blb] [*:2tiu6blb]Quintanilla, ss[/*:m:2tiu6blb] [*:2tiu6blb]Gee, sp[/*:m:2tiu6blb][/list:o:2tiu6blb]

Ceetar May 30 2012 01:24 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

presumably Davis sits for Rottino because Collins couldn't reuse the D.

metirish May 30 2012 01:25 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Can I say that Quintanilla has the best "stache on the team since José Valentin.

Frayed Knot May 30 2012 02:20 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

metsguyinmichigan wrote: Let's go Mets! ... and Phuck the Phillies sideways !!

Ashie62 May 30 2012 03:49 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

LETS!

bmfc1 May 30 2012 04:15 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

GO!

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 30 2012 04:25 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Nymr83 May 30 2012 05:32 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

The Mets are Ty Wigginton's bitch.

Nymr83 May 30 2012 05:44 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Hitting the ball very gently (ie bunting) is a great way to ensure that only bad things happen! Yeah it was Dillon Gee, but could we just stop robotically bunting please?

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 30 2012 06:54 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

ooops, I made a DudaBomb

Nymr83 May 30 2012 06:57 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

DUDA!!

themetfairy May 30 2012 06:57 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Nymr83 wrote: DUDA!! DUDA!

Edgy MD May 30 2012 06:59 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

That's the good sort of Dudabomb.

Edgy MD May 30 2012 07:01 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Brian Schneider, offensive machine.

Frayed Knot May 30 2012 07:02 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

I keep thinking that Murph is going to play himself into a bad hop off the lip of the grass playing out there. He hasn't yet but he continues to make me nervous.

Ashie62 May 30 2012 07:03 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Duda bombing a lefty.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 30 2012 07:05 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

fuckedy bitch

Edgy MD May 30 2012 07:07 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Flurb. Oh, fwell, we'll get it back.

Frayed Knot May 30 2012 07:08 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Gee needed to get one more batter and it was Brian Freakin' Schneider.

Nymr83 May 30 2012 07:09 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Feh!

DocTee May 30 2012 07:10 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Motherfather.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 30 2012 07:11 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Frayed Knot wrote: Gee needed to get one more batter and it was Brian Freakin' Schneider. Schneider and Frigginton. Really these guys ought not to be beating us.

Edgy MD May 30 2012 07:12 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

How poorly executed was Torres' play on that?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 30 2012 07:14 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Edgy DC wrote: How poorly executed was Torres' play on that? He was playing ABSURDLY shallow (as noted by GKR just before Schneider's liner), hesitated a split-second before starting back, and flailed rather than diving for the catch. So... not great.

Edgy MD May 30 2012 07:19 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

I support shallow play (Ralph Kiner always encouraged me to), but one should probably back up with two out.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 30 2012 07:22 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

All the same, the Schneid gave it a reid. And nothing that Ruiz could do to hurt us but hit a homer.

bmfc1 May 30 2012 07:22 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Everyone enjoy the report by Guys! on Yadier Molina? He won't be playing against the Mets until Friday but Guys! chose to highlight the splendor of Y. Molina as if we needed the reminder.

Nymr83 May 30 2012 07:26 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Damn, why couldn't Rob Johnson stomp on Pierre's hand or something? I HATE the head-first slide, especially into home, and I'm glad it was their guys doing it

Fman99 May 30 2012 07:48 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Bad bullpen, BAD!

Edgy MD May 30 2012 07:49 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Well, at least Terry is taking being within a run seriously. Not quite helping as much as I'd like. Double play depth on a lefthanded Rollins? Has he lost that much?

Frayed Knot May 30 2012 07:50 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Four different guys in the pen used tonight and they're still only retiring half they batters they face. Meanwhile we're like 1-for-7 against theirs.

Edgy MD May 30 2012 07:50 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Well, hasn't lost that much. You don't need Acosta to put a game out of reach.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 30 2012 07:50 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

BOOoooOOoOoOOOOOoOoooooOOOOOOOOooOOOoOoOOoOoooOOOo

Fman99 May 30 2012 07:50 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Ugh. I hat these guys.

Frayed Knot May 30 2012 07:51 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Frayed Knot wrote: Four different guys in the pen used tonight and they're still only retiring half they batters they face. Meanwhile we're like 1-for-7 against theirs. And I typed that BEFORE the Rollins HR.

Frayed Knot May 30 2012 07:53 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Any other weak-ass hitters we can give up extra-base hits to tonight? One of the Philly relievers? ... Somebody from the stands? ... A vendor maybe?

bmfc1 May 30 2012 07:53 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

2 outs, nobody on in the 7th and a piece of crap like Brian Schneider at bat... and it all goes to hell from there.

Frayed Knot May 30 2012 07:56 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

btw, Wigginton, Schneider, Rollins, & Pierre [u:2iy5dhhp]all had single digit XBHs FOR THE SEASON[/u:2iy5dhhp] coming into this series.

Edgy MD May 30 2012 08:01 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Well, this isn't the ending I planned.

themetfairy May 30 2012 08:01 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Schwinden picks up where he left off....

Fman99 May 30 2012 08:04 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

I keep meaning to turn it off. And I keep watching.

Frayed Knot May 30 2012 08:04 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

If this game never actually ends because the NYM staff is unable to get another out does that mean we can't be hung with the loss?

Edgy MD May 30 2012 08:05 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

When the 15th man bats in the inning, Geico will remind us that in 15 minutes, we can save 15% on our baseball insurance.

Edgy MD May 30 2012 08:10 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

That's right, Duda. Defy the darkness.

Frayed Knot May 30 2012 08:12 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

bmfc1 wrote: 2 outs, nobody on in the 7th and a piece of crap like Brian Schneider at bat... At that point they needed to get 7 more outs ... and it took 6 pitchers facing 18 batters to get them.

Edgy MD May 30 2012 08:17 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

That's ugly. But don't miss your Mets last stand. Rallying in the ninth, within five with two outs. Tying run=Rottino.

Edgy MD May 30 2012 08:23 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Murphy does his part. Three straight two-out hits. Keep at it, Mets. You have tomorrow off.

Edgy MD May 30 2012 08:24 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Blurp.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 30 2012 08:25 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

And that's it. And if the bullpen had done even a respectably shitty job, this game would now be tied, or over the other way.

TransMonk May 30 2012 08:26 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Our bullpen is for shit. [bigpurple:f2lfbtss]BOOO!!!!![/bigpurple:f2lfbtss]

Edgy MD May 30 2012 08:29 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

The team has done a good job punching in AAA players, but making them fit on paper and getting them coordinated with the team thang are two different issues. Onward. Day off. Good day to sign a thirdbaseman.

Vic Sage May 30 2012 09:12 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Me and Vic Jr had a perfectly nice evening in the park, right up until Parnell showed up. It was shiite, as MetIrish would say, from that point on. When Mayberry parked Martinez's fatty into the Pepsi Porch in the 9th, we departed. got new hats, though. Jr got the classic blue, with the orange button. He's a traditionalist. I got a 50th anniversary edition. oh, and the rebuilt bullpen of ours? the one aspect of the team that Sandy spent money and trades to create? it sucks big hairy moose cock.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 30 2012 09:25 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Very much like the midweek game we screwed up on the Reds a few weeks back. All's super till the bullpen gets involved.

MFS62 May 30 2012 09:40 PM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Here's my suggestion for rebuilding the bullpen. Move the lock to the outside of the gate, then when they're all locked inside, throw away the key. Later

Edgy MD May 31 2012 07:49 AM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Yeah, but that's the thing, the more you ask of the bullpen, the worse it will suck, every time. Don't look for new combos, ask more of the starters. Make any relievers force their way into the conversation. That's all I can think of. Not sure how much it would have helped last night. What a lousy job.

Vic Sage May 31 2012 08:44 AM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

last night, i saw Dillon Gee start to weaken in the 6th, getting out of a jam with a 6-4-3. So when he gave up Schneider's well hit 2-out double to deep center in the 7th, i didn't quibble with Collins' decision to bring in Parnell. Gee looked done to me, after 110 pitches, and if we can get that much out of Gee in a game, i say take it and move on. I think asking more of starters who aren't up to it is as likely to end in disaster as asking relief pitchers to get 7 outs to close out a 3-1 game. Now i agree that the ritualistic removal of a starter who is going strong just because its "time" for the setup guy or the closer is almost always a bad idea, and a worse idea when your pen sucks. But expecting mediocre starters to go deeper to avoid going to your stinky pen is not really a solution either.

Edgy MD May 31 2012 08:59 AM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Yeah, that's what I mean by "that's all I got." In general, I believe it, but I can't say as it would have necessarily helped us last night, except maybe that more and better relievers would perhaps have been fresher when Gee was pulled. I mean, if that's not Gee but Jim McAndrew tiring, Gil Hodges or Yogi Berra goes to Tug McGraw looking for him to get all seven outs there, and doesn't worrying about building a bridge of three relievers to finish the game. And he doesn't worry too much about not having McGraw tomorrow because he's not trying to become dependent on the bullpen. Ask a little bit more of the starters, and it's a little gift to the relievers. Ask a little bit more of the better relievers, and it's a gift to the lesser ones. Now, of course, they ask more of everybody, by demanding more appearances for shorter stints, and I'm not sure that's really saving their arms.

Ceetar May 31 2012 09:06 AM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

I wonder if the dilution of pitchers plays in though. Frank Francisco or Bobby Parnell don't seem like they're going to be Tug McGraw. Would McGraw? Or would someone with the ability to pitch 3 innings successfully end up as a 4th or 5th starter on a team somewhere and we left with guys not even that good to pitch the bullpen innings? And it's a little bit of chicken/egg in that small sample sizes tricks managers into pigeon holing guys into very specific roles that the limited data suggests they need to do to succeed, and they never quite break out of that? Maybe the best solution here is Mejia as a Tug type multi-inning closer? guys that are good enough to start but aren't quite ready to do so? build up innings year to year by having these guys pitch 2-3 (and 120) innings at the back end of games rather than preemptively shutting them down?

Benjamin Grimm May 31 2012 09:26 AM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

The best solution would involve pretending that Tony Larussa and Dennis Eckersley never existed.

Edgy MD May 31 2012 09:50 AM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

I don't believe there has been a dilution of pitchers at all. A good team used to be able to get the season with eight effective pitchers, the playoffs with seven, the World Series with six. There isn't a dilution of supply but an increase in demand.

batmagadanleadoff May 31 2012 10:06 AM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

There may or may not be a dilution of pitchers but there is surely a dilution in the talent level of major league pitching. When the game changes to the point that each team now carries an extra pitcher or two on the 25 man roster, well that's about four dozen pitchers that wouldn't have been pitching in the majors before the pitch count factor changed the way pitchers are handled. Edgy DC wrote: A good team used to be able to get the season with eight effective pitchers, the playoffs with seven, the World Series with six. There isn't a dilution of supply but an increase in demand. That's very old history. Teams can't get by with just eight pitchers when the starter, even if dominant on that day, is usually lifted with two or three innings still left in the game.

Edgy MD May 31 2012 10:13 AM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Maybe. Though I still say supply relative to demand hasn't diminished. Those last two guys are not the way to best use your roster spots, I would certainly argue. And they certainly shouldn't be getting meaningful innings, but spending the majority of their month eating sunflower seeds. I think any diminishution of talent is an illusion caused by an increased percentage of pitchers being allowed to confront higher-leverage situations.

batmagadanleadoff May 31 2012 10:16 AM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Edgy DC wrote: Maybe. Though I still say supply relative to demand hasn't diminished. Those last two guys are not the way to best use your roster spots, I would certainly argue. And they certainly shouldn't be getting meaningful innings, but spending the majority of their month eating sunflower seeds. I think any diminishution of talent is an illusion caused by an increased percentage of pitchers being allowed to confront higher-leverage situations. I don't see how teams have a choice when it's no longer unusual for a starter to get taken out after pitching just five innings. If pitchers pitched longer today .... if rosters were comprised of 10 pitchers ... then someone like Manny Acosta would be a AAA pitcher and Chris Schwinden still wouldn't know what a major league post-game buffet tastes like.

Edgy MD May 31 2012 10:18 AM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

Well, then, their choice is to let starters go deeper, relief aces to go longer, and therefore give more good innings to good pitchers. Somebody will be first to look back and learn from it. It might as well be my team.

Vic Sage May 31 2012 10:27 AM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

if only. sigh.

Edgy MD May 31 2012 10:41 AM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

The flip side is that, with managers artificially limiting the duration of outings by their best and better pitchers, there arises the hidden virtue of the patient approach at the plate. Not only can it help you score more now, it can help you score more at the end of the game. Not only can it help you score more at the end of the game, it can help you score more at the end of the series.

Vic Sage May 31 2012 10:47 AM Re: IGT: May 30 -- Let's take another one from the Phils!

as i noted in another thread, it is exactly that approach (widely criticized by Darling, Ojeda and others in the media) which has allowed our punchless, speedless lineup to generate enough runs to be in the upper 3rd of offenses in the NL, while our run prevention is in the bottom 3rd, thanks to our crappy bullpen and our manager's indiscriminate use of them.