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Marlins Formally Looking to Move

Valadius Nov 22 2005 03:48 PM

Unable to Get a Stadium, Marlins to Pursue Relocation MIAMI (AP) -- The Florida Marlins will look into relocation as early as the 2008 season, after years of unsuccessful attempts to secure a baseball-only stadium in downtown Miami. Marlins president David Samson said Tuesday the team has received permission from Major League Baseball to investigate its options in other cities. Samson added owner Jeffrey Loria's primary intention is to keep the team in South Florida. "There will be no deal in the city of Miami," Samson said. The Marlins' lease with Dolphins Stadium is in effect until 2007. The team has a series of one-year options that could keep it there through the 2010 season. Samson said the team will not extend its current lease at Dolphins Stadium under any circumstances. "We simply must play in a baseball-only facility," Samson said. Samson wouldn't get into specifics of any trades, but said there would be an immediate "significant market correction" to the team's payroll. Samson said some cities have called the Marlins to discuss possibilities, but he wouldn't reveal any details. Marlins officials met in December with Las Vegas Mayor Oscar Goodman. "What does this mean? It does not mean that the Marlins are necessarily leaving South Florida. It does mean, however, that we need to seriously explore all of our options, including those in other markets," team owner Jeffery Loria said in a statement read by Samson. Loria was in Europe. The team has lobbied for its own stadium since original owner H. Wayne Huizenga sold the team to John Henry in 1999. The team's latest ballpark plan, 38,000-seat stadium with a retractable roof that would be built next to Miami's Orange Bowl, came apart this spring. The ballpark had an estimated cost of $420 million to $435 million, and the financing plan included $60 million in state funding. While money was approved in April by the Florida House, the state Senate refused to go along. Then, South Florida government officials and the team didn't meet a June 9 deadline established by Bob DuPuy, baseball's chief operating officer, for a detailed update on the funding plans. Miami Mayor Manny Diaz didn't immediately return messages seeking comment. Miami-Dade County Mayor Carlos Alvarez said he will "continue to be supportive of the team's efforts to build a stadium in South Florida." Meanwhile, the Marlins appeared to have begun to pare their payroll, which was at around $60 million on opening day last season. The Red Sox and Marlins reached a preliminary agreement Monday night on a trade that would send pitcher Josh Beckett and third baseman Mike Lowell to Boston for three prospects. The trade wasn't finalized because physicals were pending, according to a baseball official who requested anonymity. The 25-year-old Beckett, eligible for salary arbitration, is expected to earn between $4 million and $5 million next year and can become a free agent after the 2007 season. Lowell, 31, is owed $9 million each of the next two seasons.

Valadius Nov 22 2005 06:19 PM

This brings up my absolute favorite topic in all of sports: division alignment, realignment, and team relocation and expansion. I used to spend many hours pondering this topic while the NBA, NFL, and NHL were going through their realignment periods, and frequently come back to MLB, because I don't think they're done. Here's how the Majors currently look: NL East Atlanta Braves Florida Marlins New York Mets Philadelphia Phillies Washington Nationals NL Central Chicago Cubs Cincinnati Reds Houston Astros Milwaukee Brewers Pittsburgh Pirates St. Louis Cardinals NL West Arizona Diamondbacks Colorado Rockies Los Angeles Dodgers San Diego Padres San Francisco Giants AL East Baltimore Orioles Boston Red Sox New York Yankees Tampa Bay Devil Rays Toronto Blue Jays AL Central Chicago White Sox Cleveland Indians Detroit Tigers Kansas City Royals Minnesota Twins AL West Los Angeles Angels Oakland Athletics Seattle Mariners Texas Rangers There are problems with this configuration as it is now. There are six teams in the NL Central and four in the AL West. One of the AL West teams, the Texas Rangers, have long been pushing the move to the AL Central, because of the time zone difference between them and the other AL West teams. A conservative outlook on change in the MLB would have no expansion take place. If the Marlins move to Las Vegas or another western city, such as Portland, here is what I propose: NL East Atlanta Braves New York Mets Philadelphia Phillies Pittsburgh Pirates Washington Nationals NL Central Chicago Cubs Cincinnati Reds Colorado Rockies Houston Astros Milwaukee Brewers St. Louis Cardinals NL West Arizona Diamondbacks Las Vegas? (Marlins) Los Angeles Dodgers San Diego Padres San Francisco Giants Ideally, however, there would be the same number of teams in each division. As it stands now, with 16 NL teams and 14 AL teams, it wouldn't work if applied throughout baseball. Also, some claim, 15 NL teams and 15 AL teams would mean that there would always be an interleague series occurring, diminishing the significance of those games. I say it doesn't have to be so. One team in each league would get a series off, allowing the teams to rest more often. But then, some might say, the duration of the season would be lengthened. Not necessarily, I say. Bring back the time-honored tradition of scheduled double-headers and that crisis would be averted.

Nymr83 Nov 22 2005 11:16 PM

you wont get 5/5/5, 5/5/5 because that would require inter-league play every day which is not something they seem to want. you'll see equal divisions when they expand to 32 (it has to happen some day) at which point i HOPE they do it 8/8, 8/8 with 2 wildcards per league instead of 4 team divisions with only 1 playoff team per.

Nymr83 Nov 22 2005 11:18 PM

this just in! Yankee owner George Steinbrenner will help the Marlins firesale by trading for their longest-tenured member and paying his salary. at the same time, George will be filling a need that has existed on the Yankees for longer than he has owned the team.....

Valadius Nov 22 2005 11:40 PM

Consider the following: 50 Largest Metropolitan Areas in the United States New York Los Angeles Chicago Philadelphia Dallas Miami Washington Houston Detroit Boston Atlanta San Francisco-Oakland Riverside-San Bernardino, California (Inland Empire) Phoenix Seattle Minneapolis-St. Paul San Diego St. Louis Baltimore Pittsburgh Tampa-St. Petersburg Cleveland Denver Cincinnati Portland, Oregon Kansas City Sacramento San Jose San Antonio Orlando Columbus, Ohio Providence, RI Norfolk-Virginia Beach Indianapolis Milwaukee Las Vegas Charlotte New Orleans (Pre-Katrina) Nashville Austin, Texas Memphis Buffalo Louisville, Kentucky Hartford Jacksonville Richmond, Virginia Oklahoma City Birmingham, Alabama Rochester, NY Excluding Riverside-San Bernardino (which is really just an offshoot of LA), the largest metropolitan area in the United States without an MLB team is that of Portland, Oregon. Las Vegas is the fastest-growing metropolitan area.

SI Metman Nov 23 2005 04:00 AM

I came up with a similar switch on the MOFO. The other choice would be to have the Marlins and Rays switch leagues. Send Vegas/Portland to the AL West Texas to the AL Central 1 of Detroit/Cleveland back to the AL East Tampa to the NL East.

DocTee Nov 23 2005 06:22 AM

Interesting, Val...A's management always makes noise about relocating within the gretaer bay Area: the Giants would block a move to San Jose, but Sacto (home of Athletics top affiliate) is rarely mentioned-- since it has a larger population, maybe it should be... I recall the A's playing some pre-season games in Vegas,a nd the rumors of htier impending move to the Desert-- I think the gambling stigma is too much for MLB to overcome, as Edgy mentioned earlier.

TheOldMole Nov 23 2005 08:17 AM

I'd like to see a team in Rochester...

seawolf17 Nov 23 2005 08:51 AM

YAY Rochester! Not big enough, but that would rule.

sharpie Nov 23 2005 09:15 AM

Problem with Sacramento, besides being ugly and boring, is that you quickly get to scrubland once you are out of the metro area. San Jose makes a whole lot more sense if Oakland wanted to move in the Bay Area. Thing is, Oakland is probably the best place for Oakland.

Willets Point Nov 23 2005 12:48 PM

Put me down in favor of contracting Florida's major league baseball franchises. This is getting ridiculous.

Mex17 Nov 23 2005 10:46 PM

Let me say this loud and clear: If MLB puts a team in Vegas than they should PUT PETE ROSE IN THE HALL OF FAME IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Frayed Knot Nov 23 2005 11:47 PM

One has nothing to do with the other.

Edgy DC Nov 23 2005 11:56 PM

He makes a compelling case, what with all those exclamation points.

Frayed Knot Nov 24 2005 12:29 AM

He had me at ALL CAPS

Mex17 Nov 24 2005 07:27 AM

When dealing with potenally blatant unchecked hypocricy, all caps and exclamation points are necessary. How do you continue to punish one of the greatest hitters in the history of the sport because of his gambling habits and then proceed to to jump in bed with the city that has encouraged those same destructive habits for millions of people for decades?? Hypocracy. Selig is basically acting like the French cop in Cassablanca, IMO.

Frayed Knot Nov 24 2005 09:13 AM

"How do you continue to punish one of the greatest hitters in the history of the sport because of his gambling habits" because he knowingly and intentionally broke the only rule of the game that has such a "death penalty" and in doing so he risked the integrity of the game -- and then continued to lie about it for decades. "... and then proceed to to jump in bed with the city that has encouraged those same destructive habits for millions of people for decades??" The same rules that insulate the game from becoming connected with gambling will still apply whether you're in a city that permits it legally or not. Object to Vegas if you want, but it in no way relates to Rose's situation.

Valadius Nov 24 2005 08:19 PM

Whatever happened to that offer from Don King to build a stadium on some of his land in Florida?

Nymr83 Nov 24 2005 08:23 PM

Valadius wrote: Whatever happened to that offer from Don King to build a stadium on some of his land in Florida? i don't even remember that.

metirish Nov 24 2005 10:38 PM

This is a terrible idea... ] Businessman Wants Marlins in Puerto Rico November 23, 2005, 9:17 PM EST SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico -- The businessman who brought Montreal Expos games to Puerto Rico now wants to lure the Florida Marlins. Antonio Munoz would like the Marlins to move to Puerto Rico permanently or at least consider playing some of their games there, as the Expos did from 2003-04. He said he will soon discuss his idea with the team to see if it is interested. "We would like to see the Marlins play in Puerto Rico," Munoz said from the Dominican Republic in a telephone interview with The Associated Press. Frustrated they have been unable to put together financing for a new ballpark in South Florida, the Marlins said Tuesday they have received permission from the commissioner's office to explore moving the franchise for the 2008 season. Munoz paid millions in 2003 and 2004 to get the Montreal Expos to play more than 40 games at Hiram Bithorn Stadium in San Juan. The franchise moved to Washington and was renamed the Nationals before last season. Munoz said Puerto Rico might consider building a new stadium for the Marlins. "Puerto Rico is on notice to consider the construction of a new park and that is something that we could negotiate," he said. Florida president David Samson said several cities have already shown an interest in becoming the club's new home. Looking to slash payroll, the Marlins struck two tentative deals this week to trade three star players: first baseman Carlos Delgado, pitcher Josh Beckett and third baseman Mike Lowell.

DocTee Nov 24 2005 10:40 PM

How so Irish?

Edgy DC Nov 24 2005 10:41 PM

Why? If they are willing to cough up the extortion money that Miami won't, more power to them.

metirish Nov 24 2005 10:43 PM

Because it didn't work when the Expos played there, most people in Puerto Rico can't afford MLB prices, plus IIRC the Mets players and other teams that went there hated the travel and the stadium and the heat,and afte the novelty wore off the fans didn't fill the stadium.

Edgy DC Nov 24 2005 11:13 PM

]Because it didn't work when the Expos played there... That's a pretty broad statement. What didn't work may not have worked with any team in transition. ]... most people in Puerto Rico can't afford MLB prices..., Do you know this for a fact? The world is changing. Ireland was a pretty poor place just 15 years ago. ]...plus IIRC the Mets players and other teams that went there hated the travel and the stadium and the heat,and afte the novelty wore off the fans didn't fill the stadium. Well, the travel can't be much different from travel to Florida, the stadium will be a new one if they get a permanent assignment, and the heat also won't be any worse than Miami. Novelty wears off with all new teams. A new team that's just passing through is doomed.

metirish Nov 24 2005 11:29 PM

All fair points Edgy, and of course saying that all people in Puerto Rico can't afford MLB prices was wrong, I do remember one of the Mets TV guys talking about that though during a series the Mets played there, I think it was Ted Robinson that said that the fans he talked to said that the prices were way to high for them . Why should we believe that this will build a new stadium?

Edgy DC Nov 24 2005 11:37 PM

I believe there won't be a permanent re-assignment anywhere --- Norfolk, Buffalo, Sacramento, Managua --- without a promise of a publicly funded stadium.

Nymr83 Nov 25 2005 12:29 AM

normally i'd hate to see a team, any team, move. but when you win 2 friggin world series since 1997 and still the fans don't come i say screw them, they dont deserve a team. edgy is right about the stadium thing and thats why in the end i dont think anyone will move again anytime soon. the era of publicly funded stadiums seems to be coming to an end (or at least slowing down considerably) and i'm glad to see it go.

SwitchHitter Nov 25 2005 02:54 PM

And if they build a new stadium, they can put a dome on it, so heat won't be an issue.

smg58 Nov 25 2005 03:42 PM

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/marlins3.shtml This shows the Marlins attendance records, up to this year. They were actually doing just fine until the 98 fire sale, with especially strong years in their inaugural season and the championship year. They never recovered from 98, though, bottoming out with a disastrous sub-million attendance in 02. Even winning again in 03 didn't undo the damage, but in fairness the attendance has gone up each of the past three seasons (it was 1.8 million this year). It still wasn't great, but the area appeared to be regaining some confidence in the organization. Now, I see no reason not to expect another free-fall.

Edgy DC Nov 25 2005 04:08 PM

So, like in Montreal, the fans get the tag as a group that abandoned Major League Baseball, when, in fact, Major League Baseball abandoned them first.

Valadius Nov 25 2005 04:13 PM

The problem isn't the fans. It's the stadium itself. Think about it. How hot does it get in the summer down in Florida? It's regularly 90 or above. Would YOU want to go to a game in that heat? The Marlins NEED a domed, air-conditioned stadium to attract fans in the dead of summer. That's the problem.

Nymr83 Nov 25 2005 04:33 PM

Valadius wrote: The problem isn't the fans. It's the stadium itself. Think about it. How hot does it get in the summer down in Florida? It's regularly 90 or above. Would YOU want to go to a game in that heat? The Marlins NEED a domed, air-conditioned stadium to attract fans in the dead of summer. That's the problem. that is at least excusable, theres no excuse for abandoning your team based on their W-L record especially having recently won a WS. i've personally avoided Shea day games in July and August, but only because i knew i could go the next day at night. i still think the dome isn't the entire answer though, tampa has a dome and bad attendance, no?