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mets get delgado (apparently)

So, what do you think of the Delgado trade?

I love the Delgado trade!	9 votes
I like the Delgado trade.	26 votes
I have no opinion.	3 votes
I dislike the Delgado trade.	5 votes
I hate the Delgado trade!	0 votes

metsmarathon Nov 23 2005 06:44 AM

according to [url=http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-spmets112405,0,3173460.story?coll=ny-homepage-bigpix2005]Newsday[/url], and reported on ESPN Radio this morning, the mets get carlos delgado and $7M for petit and jacobs. overall, i'm pretty pleased with the deal. i think it also could hasten a billy wagner signing, which, for 3yr / $30M, i'm not wholly dissasitfied.

seawolf17 Nov 23 2005 06:52 AM

!!!

metirish Nov 23 2005 06:55 AM

WOW...do we now apparently have an unhappy first baseman?

Elster88 Nov 23 2005 06:58 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 23 2005 07:00 AM

Wow indeed. That happened fast. I'm sorry to see Jacobs go, but I am getting to be pretty firmly entrenched in the TITTS point of view. It would've been nice to see if he could catch. _____________________________ AN ALMIGHTY 119) KEVIN ELSTER POST

sharpie Nov 23 2005 06:59 AM

That means we've got to sign a catcher as the Jacobs option no longer is in play. Also means that Xavier Nady plays right. Also means that we prolly won't be in the Manny hunt. Interesting. Certainly a good cleanup hitter. In the short term, a big improvement. We don't know about Petit and Jacobs in the long run.

Edgy DC Nov 23 2005 06:59 AM

Not on this one, but it's easy to see thier thinking. Both Petit and Jake are believed in some circles to be outplaying their abilities. But I want to see more Mets blossom. I do. It's rare that a team actually announces their fire sales. I guess the Mets had to act fast. Now the next act is Delgado double-talking his way out of the closest-to-winning-a-pennant" and Omar-thought-I'd-sign-'cuz-he-spoke-Spanish comments. A strange game, this base ball.

Elster88 Nov 23 2005 07:01 AM

sharpie wrote: Also means that we prolly won't be in the Manny hunt. I don't know why not. Delgado came relatively cheaply if the Marlins are taking seven million of the top. ]Now the next act is Delgado double-talking his way out of the closest-to-winning-a-pennant" and Omar-thought-I'd-sign-'cuz-he-spoke-Spanish comments. That's easy: "I thought the Marlins were in the best place to win last year. Obviously, now that they are reducing payroll, that is no longer true. I'm happy to be a New York Met and put on the royal blue pinstripes and all the history that comes with that." _____________________________ AN ALMIGHTY 119) KEVIN ELSTER POST

HappyRecap Nov 23 2005 07:04 AM Another aging overpriced malcontent

This is a bad deal. Giving up on a 25 year old 1B who hit .310 with power in his first year for a guy who didn't want to come to NY last year? And who knows how Petit will turn out. Omar blew this one big time.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 23 2005 07:04 AM

If getting Delgado makes Manny Ramirez less likely, then it also means that keeping Lastings Milledge is more likely. I'm okay with giving up Petit if a byproduct of that is keeping Milledge. Of course, getting Delgado isn't too shabby either. When I first saw this topic title I thought it was a red herring, that the Mets had reacquired Wilson Delgado.

Elster88 Nov 23 2005 07:07 AM Re: Another aging overpriced malcontent

HappyRecap wrote: This is a bad deal. Giving up on a 25 year old 1B who hit .310 with power in his first year for a guy who didn't want to come to NY last year? And who knows how Petit will turn out. Omar blew this one big time. I'm getting more and more convinced that this is Bret Q in disguise. So the only knock on Delgado is that he didn't want to play in New York last year? I'll take it. Who knows how Petit will turn out? Um, that's why they're trading him. I like Jacobs too, but two months does not a career make. I love arguing. Posts like this make it easy. _____________________________ AN ALMIGHTY 119) KEVIN ELSTER POST

HappyRecap Nov 23 2005 07:11 AM Elster, if we got him a few years ago it would be fine

but this guy is now 33 going on 34 and Shea is not a hitters ballpark. As his numbers decline he'll start complaining and then we have a malcontent playing on the team who is making a ton of cash.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 23 2005 07:14 AM

Shea isn't a hitter's ballpark for Jacobs, either. And you need hitters, wherever you play your home games.

Elster88 Nov 23 2005 07:17 AM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: When I first saw this topic title I thought it was a red herring, that the Mets had reacquired Wilson Delgado. That was my first thought too, but if he was trying to trick us he wouldn't have added (apparently) to the thread title. _____________________________ AN ALMIGHTY 119) KEVIN ELSTER POST

MFS62 Nov 23 2005 07:18 AM Re: Elster, if we got him a few years ago it would be fine

HappyRecap wrote: Shea is not a hitters ballpark. Um, nope. That's one of the things you hear often, but are not quite true. The last couple of years, Shea has been playing as an almost hitters neutral ballpark - overall (I think it was something like a .99, with average being 1.00). But that is on average. For lefty hitters, its had recently been a +1.20, because of the prevailing winds toward right field. The reason this hasn't been so obvious is because the Mets recently had a lefty power hitter to take advantage of it. Carlos should do just fine in Shea. Later

ABG Nov 23 2005 07:18 AM Re: Elster, if we got him a few years ago it would be fine

HappyRecap wrote: but this guy is now 33 going on 34 and Shea is not a hitters ballpark. As his numbers decline he'll start complaining and then we have a malcontent playing on the team who is making a ton of cash. Interesting. While you're in the habit of predicting the behavior of those you've never met, can you tell me how my girlfriend will react in various situations throughout the next three years? That'd be more helpful. On balance, I like this deal. To me, Jacobs had Jason Phillips written all over him. And I never really knew what to make of Petit. I thought heading into the offseason that our priorities were 1) Big bat for 1b and 1a) Closer. It appears we're on the right track on both fronts, so consider me happy.

smg58 Nov 23 2005 07:19 AM

I'd have figured that any deal for Delgado would have to include Jacobs, to be honest. My first problem is money. At best, we're paying the same per year that we offered Delgado in the first place, only with one less year and costing us Jacobs and Petit in addition. I also can't see why we couldn't have haggled down Petit to Trachsel and Bannister. If this is true, I wish Petit and Jacobs well, but not so well that we regret this quickly.

HappyRecap Nov 23 2005 07:20 AM What I saw in Jacobs last year

Was a guy who golfed some balls out of the park on low and inside fastballs. I think he had 4 dingers in his first 4 games. Then they started busting him inside, he slumped a little but the started shortening his swing and his average came back up. Then he started getting worked outside and I saw some pitches taken to LF. The net result was that his average got back over .300 and he looked to have a ton of potential. He had 11 HRs in his 100 ABs and that was enough for me to like to see him in Shea next year. Of course, that many homers in those few at-bats has shades of Benny Agbayani written all over it but anyone who watched him saw a lot of upside in Jacobs.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 23 2005 07:22 AM

Well, the Mets tried to get Delgado last year and couldn't. The past is past! Hakuna Matata! He'll help them in 2006, and that's more important right now. I'm not too hung up over the money. The Mets are a wealthy team, and they can afford to carry a few overpriced contracts. Remember, even as they're adding Delgados and Beltrans, they've dropped a Piazza, and they only have one more year of Glavine. As some big contracts rotate in, others will rotate out.

HappyRecap Nov 23 2005 07:24 AM ABG, yes I can....

in three years of dating your girlfriend you'll get older and fall into a routine and at the end of three years you won't be the same person. this guy will get older and slower and his production will go down (I didn't think it would be fare to comment on your production over the next few years) As was just pointed out by a friend of mine, Delgado will save a lot of energy when he doesn't stand for the National Anthem so perhaps he will be fresher later in the season.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 23 2005 07:27 AM

Newsday's poll: What do you think of the Mets' trade for Carlos Delgado? 31.4% I love it, Delgado is a great player! (472 responses) 28.2% I like it, but I'm not ecstatic (424 responses) 11.9% It's OK. We'll see how he does (179 responses) 17.7% I don't like it. The Mets gave up too much (267 responses) 10.8% I don't like Delgado period (163 responses) 1505 total responses

Edgy DC Nov 23 2005 07:28 AM

Delgado does stand for the National Anthem, last I checked. ]in three years of dating your girlfriend you'll get older and fall into a routine and at the end of three years you won't be the same person. You've got a point here.

metsmarathon Nov 23 2005 07:29 AM Re: Elster, if we got him a few years ago it would be fine

="HappyRecap"]but this guy is now 33 going on 34 and Shea is not a hitters ballpark. As his numbers decline he'll start complaining and then we have a malcontent playing on the team who is making a ton of cash. florida 2003 Park Factor: Batting - 94/Pitching - 94 (over 100 favors batters) 2004 Park Factor: Batting - 95/Pitching - 95 (over 100 favors batters) 2005 Park Factor: Batting - 94/Pitching - 95 (over 100 favors batters) shea 2003 Park Factor: Batting - 99/Pitching - 99 (over 100 favors batters) 2004 Park Factor: Batting - 99/Pitching - 99 (over 100 favors batters) 2005 Park Factor: Batting - 99/Pitching - 99 (over 100 favors batters) i don't really think that pro player was helping boost his numbers all that much last year. (three year park factors provided to show non-flukiness of 2005 park factor) delgado was an MVP candidate last year, and is easily one of the top 10 hitters in the NL. our lineup is tremendously improved now as compared to yesterday. if you really want to poopoo this deal, then please first consider how much better a team we would have been last year with delgado in the fold, and project that glow forward onto this season.

Edgy DC Nov 23 2005 07:29 AM

]1505 total responses Who are these people?

metirish Nov 23 2005 07:30 AM

I am thrilled with this trade, I don't see any negative to it yet, I'm curious to hear what Delgado has to say.

Elster88 Nov 23 2005 07:32 AM

They tried to get Delgado last year and failed. According to one angry poster, this was proof that they weren't going the extra mile after going all out on contracts for Pedro and Beltran. I wonder what that poster would have to say today? He's probably too busy jumping for joy over the Beckett trade. _____________________________ AN ALMIGHTY 119) KEVIN ELSTER POST

OlerudOwned Nov 23 2005 07:34 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 23 2005 07:35 AM

It's unfortunate to see someone as easy to like as Jacobs go so fast, and for Petit to never get him Met's debut, but Wright-Delgado-Floyd is a KILLER 3-4-5 if they smarten up and bat Beltran 2.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 23 2005 07:34 AM

="Edgy DC"] ]1505 total responses Who are these people? I'll start working on assembling a list. Give me a couple hours.

metirish Nov 23 2005 07:36 AM

And the Mets should bring you back John to spell Delgado at first..

Edgy DC Nov 23 2005 07:40 AM

It's funny the scoops I get and don't get. metsmarathon: "Hey, the Mets just got Ken Griffey, Jr.!" Edgy DC: "Hey, Tucker Ashford just opened a candy shop!"

Elster88 Nov 23 2005 07:40 AM

smg58 wrote: My first problem is money. At best, we're paying the same per year that we offered Delgado in the first place Minus seven million of course. _____________________________ AN ALMIGHTY 119) KEVIN ELSTER POST

Edgy DC Nov 23 2005 07:41 AM

Well, I assume the seven mills is largely to cover the backload on the contract.

sharpie Nov 23 2005 07:43 AM

$7 million isn't exactly chump change either.

Frayed Knot Nov 23 2005 07:43 AM

My initial reactions: 1) WOW!!! Just fucking WOW! 2) Funny how it's the deals that aren't talked about come out of nowhere. It's part of what drives me nuts about this time of year. 3) I think it's great. Delgado is on board for (comparative) reasonable money (approx 3 yrs @ less than $14mil/per - or nearly $5mil/per less than Manny). It's the cleanup hitter the lineup needs. He's not a great 1st baseman but so what Jacobs was fun to root for but probably limited in the long run Petit was intriguing but who knows what the long-term outlook would be 4) Forget the pitcher's park nonsense. Delgado's shots go out of any park including Yellowstone. 5) I didn't care about the Nat Anthem issue when it happened and care even less now. Ditto with the supposed "diss" from last year's negotiations.

Johnny Dickshot Nov 23 2005 07:44 AM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: If getting Delgado makes Manny Ramirez less likely, then it also means that keeping Lastings Milledge is more likely. I'm okay with giving up Petit if a byproduct of that is keeping Milledge. My thought xactly. Even Delgado's right to force a trade isn't a bad thing, necessarily, since we know his contract is ugly on the back end. Too bad about Jake, but I'm OK with this.

silverdsl Nov 23 2005 07:49 AM Re: ABG, yes I can....

HappyRecap wrote: As was just pointed out by a friend of mine, Delgado will save a lot of energy when he doesn't stand for the National Anthem so perhaps he will be fresher later in the season. If he was traded to a team I'm a fan of I'd be more concerned with what he can potentially do on the field to help the team win rather than whether he stands for the NA or what he might have thought a year ago. The Marlins are in the midst of a fire sale and it seems to me that Delgado might not be all that unhappy to leave if the team's getting dismantled. I guess I've come to expect that some fans of all teams will find something to criticize about even the best moves their team makes but this really does seem like a very good addition for the Mets that I would think the majority of fans should be happy about.

86-Dreamer Nov 23 2005 07:51 AM

I really wanted to see Jacobs develop with Wright & Reyes, and Petit to lead the pitching staff. I also wanted Hubie Brooks to be Mets 3B for life and Floyd Yeomans to shine along with Gooden & darling for ten years. I am not predicting that Delgado will be the missing link that Gary Carter was, just to point out that sometimes these risks are worth taking.

Edgy DC Nov 23 2005 07:52 AM

]I'm okay with giving up Petit if a byproduct of that is keeping Milledge. My thoughts also, but what does it say that we're OK with the Mets dealing off some good prospects because it makes better good prospects safer? There's a European tradition of the rabbit garden --- the vegetables you plant outside the fence as a sacrifice to the rabbits to keep them from getting inside the fence. I don't want to fear the Mets like that. That said (I use that a lot) --- between Seo, Heilman, Humber, Pelfrey, Soler, Bannister, Gaby Hernandez, and longer-shot flamethrowers like Matt Lindstrom and Jeremy Hill, the Mets should still have enough redundancy in their system to replace the veteran starters in their rotation in the coming years.

MFS62 Nov 23 2005 07:54 AM

Just received this from a Jays fan friend in Toronto. Thought I'd share. Later **************************************************************************** poor ralu.....having to be a met (is there a worse non-bostonian fate?) ah well, enjoy him metsie...he's streaky as hell but when he's hot - there is no one hotter....sometimes u just know he's gonna go yard....he always has a wonderful smile on his face....and he really is a leader... i guess on the positive side, playing in yew york might help his hall of fame chances... good for u mets fans...remember ralu means god...feel free to use it as necessary regards

Elster88 Nov 23 2005 07:58 AM

It's also funny that HappyRecap posts something that's not true (Delgado doesn't stand for the National Anthem), and then someone else who isn't that familiar with the story like silver posts an argument in the opposing view. Not a knock on silver at all, it's obvious she remembers the story of Delgado not getting up during the seventh inning stretch, saw what HappyRecap wrote, and assumed what he posted was completely accurate when in fact he mixed it up a little. (I also agree 100% with what silver says.) But if someone else who was slightly unfamiliar with the story were to just be browsing and see what HappyRecap wrote they might post it somewhere else, and it would go from there to other places, and eventually Heyman will write an article about it quoting unnamed sources. I guess that's how rumors start. _____________________________ AN ALMIGHTY 119) KEVIN ELSTER POST

duan Nov 23 2005 08:09 AM

seriously people are getting WAY to hung up on Mike Jacobs. If he really can't be a catcher he'll be a mediocre first baseman with a bit of pop potential. If he can catch well he'll be a real loss but I think they've done a good job of trading him while his value was at it's highest. He just reminds me of 2003's Jason Phillips.

abogdan Nov 23 2005 08:18 AM

I'd rather see the Mets get Manny instead of Delgado, but with the $7 million coming over I can't be too upset about this trade. I'm not expecting Delgado to still be as productive in year 3 of this deal, but next year, the Mets now have the best clean up hitter in the NL. No one in the NL has four guys in their lineup like Beltran/Wright/Delgado/Floyd. This also means that Seo and Heilman will likely both be in Shea next year unless Omar really goes nuts and tries to get Soriano to play 2B.

Centerfield Nov 23 2005 08:29 AM

I hate to see Jacobs go. I think there is a difference between minor-league prospects and guys who, as little as it may be, have shown success in the major leagues. But I guess with Delgado coming on board, there is no place for him to play anyway. That being said, I'm thrilled about Delgado...and I'm crossing my fingers that this story gets confirmed by a few other news sources.

duan Nov 23 2005 08:34 AM

by the way - I'd have preferred to keep Petit then get $ 7 million; but then I'm probably a little too excited by the idea of pitchers coming through and a little too quick to forget that there first year or two in the ML's tends to have it's fair share of lump taking (of course there are exceptions but they're in a comfortable minority).

sharpie Nov 23 2005 08:37 AM

]and I'm crossing my fingers that this story gets confirmed by a few other news sources. ESPN reporting it from AP wire.

ABG Nov 23 2005 08:44 AM

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2234421 ESPN.com has it too.

Johnny Dickshot Nov 23 2005 08:47 AM

He'll never fit into Kaz Matsui's #25 jersey.

Elster88 Nov 23 2005 09:02 AM

Who was reporting that the Fish wouldn't trade in division? Can we stop with those silly ideas now? Between Piazza, Leiter, and now Delgado, the Mets have benefited handsomely from Fish Fire Sales (TM). _____________________________ AN ALMIGHTY 119) KEVIN ELSTER POST

Benjamin Grimm Nov 23 2005 09:06 AM

Keith Hernandez and Gary Carter also came to the Mets in trades from other NL East teams. That within-the-same-division thing might make a deal slightly less likely, but by no means does it make it impossible.

Edgy DC Nov 23 2005 09:13 AM

And Juan Samuel. And Tim Burke.

seawolf17 Nov 23 2005 09:15 AM

I thought we agreed to never mention that name in this space ever again.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 23 2005 09:16 AM

The guy who looks like Mo Vaughn is complaining about Tim Burke?

metirish Nov 23 2005 09:18 AM

These lads can't be happy...Carlos has a looooooooong name.. http://www.baseballreference.com/d/delgaca01.shtml

soupcan Nov 23 2005 09:25 AM

I like this deal mas mucho for many of the reasons already stated in this thread. -It prolly takes us away from Manny and I was becoming increasingly leery of giving up Milledge even though I know there's a better chance of him becoming David West/Alex Ochoa/Alex Escobar than Tom Seaver/Darryl Strawberry/Dwight Gooden. -Jacobs and Petit? HA! Fleeced. Fleeced I tell ya! -Delgado not standing up for the Anthem? You're kidding me right? This is a concern? Last I checked that's kinda what we stand for (pardon the pun) in this country, no? -I'm also thinking that if Omar pulled this deal off he's not so concerned about any imagined ill will between Carlos and the Mets. And if ain't concerned, I ain't concerned. I read in the NY Post this morning that the Mets are also talking about getting Soriano as well with Bannister's name in the mix on that one.

metirish Nov 23 2005 09:25 AM

Buster Olney blogs on Omar...here's the relevent rant.. ]A Mets deal for Carlos Delgado could happen quickly, reports Kevin Kernan; the Daily News concurs. If, in fact, the Mets part with their top pitching prospect to get Delgado, while absorbing all of Delgado's financial obligations, they are insane. They could offer a bag of balls at this point and Florida will take a deal, so long as the Mets are taking the contract. Again, there is no question that the Mets are going to have the best offseason, on paper, of any team in the majors: They're probably going to sign Billy Wagner, they could get Delgado very soon, and they're going to get a good catcher. But the trademark of Omar Minaya's dealings so far is that he overpays for everything. He can get Delgado, and that's great. But why overpay for him? Why not tell the Marlins, Look, you don't have teams beating down your door to take his contract. We'll do you a favor and take his contract, and you'll take one Grade B-minus prospect from this list of three, along with this backup Class A catcher, and you'll be thrilled with that. A bag of balls would have gotten it done...damn you Omar...

Spacemans Bong Nov 23 2005 09:29 AM

IMHO the Mets easily won the trade. Overpaying my ass.

soupcan Nov 23 2005 09:29 AM

There's a reason some guys are writers and some guys are GMs.

TheOldMole Nov 23 2005 09:30 AM

I think it's an excellent deal. AND it means probably no trade of Milledge. The NY Mets official site has this headline. ]Delgado reportedly dealt to Mets If they don't know, who does?

metirish Nov 23 2005 09:31 AM

So very true soup, and of course Omar would get hammered if he didn't land these guys because he refused to overpay...

Centerfield Nov 23 2005 09:34 AM

Olney doesn't know...Omar is saving that bag of balls for an even bigger deal down the road.

Centerfield Nov 23 2005 09:37 AM

Soriano? I don't attribute as much value to defense as some others do, but a Wright-Reyes-Soriano-Delgado infield would be pretty tough to watch. I was thinking that with Delgado at first, we'd need to make sure we can get some pretty sure hands at second base if we're to give ground ball guys like Benson any chance next year. Throw in the fact that we might have Diaz in right and Piazza behind the plate....our pitchers are going to have to figure out how to get everyone to hit it to Beltran.

Valadius Nov 23 2005 09:38 AM

Great short-term deal. We might make the playoffs a few times. However: This might be bad long-term. Jake-Monster could become the next Jeff Bagwell, and Petit is as sure-fire a prospect as they come, and he'll likely be a #2 starter. So I'm iffy on this deal.

metirish Nov 23 2005 09:40 AM

Val you're really upset because you created "Jake-Monster" aren't you?....

Elster88 Nov 23 2005 09:42 AM

Valadius wrote: Jake-Monster could become the next Jeff Bagwell, and Petit is as sure-fire a prospect as they come, and he'll likely be a #2 starter. *sigh* Where to begin? _____________________________ AN ALMIGHTY 119) KEVIN ELSTER POST

Valadius Nov 23 2005 09:43 AM

That's one reason, yes. But I hate trading young talent at any time.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 23 2005 09:43 AM

I think Jacobs is a nice player, but it's unlikely he's going to become a superstar or even an All-Star, unless the Marlins get so bad that he's their token player. And no pitching prospect is a sure thing. You're too young to remember Tim Leary, but you've probably heard of Paul Wilson and Bill Pulsipher.

soupcan Nov 23 2005 09:44 AM

Oh yeah - the Post also said that Omar is talking to the D'Bags about Benson for Javier Vasquez.

Valadius Nov 23 2005 09:45 AM

I remember Wilson and Pulsipher. However, I am too young to remember the full extent of the hype surrounding them. I only caught the tail end, when people were already doubting them.

sharpie Nov 23 2005 09:48 AM

Take Petit and triple it, that was the hype surrounding Wilson and Pulsipher.

HappyRecap Nov 23 2005 09:48 AM Ed Coleman on WFAN about Delgado's contract

He said that Delgado has the option to demand a trade after next year. So if he is a one-year deal, let's see how he does. Will be interesting to see how he spins his new love of NY now that he is playing here.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 23 2005 09:50 AM

And if he demands a trade, he risks forfeiting his big guaranteed contract if he doesn't get it. I don't think his right to demand a trade is any kind of factor at all. As long as nobody speaks Spanish to him, he should be happy in New York.

Elster88 Nov 23 2005 09:50 AM

You're killing me HappyRecap. I also fail to recall him saying something like "I don't like New York." The thrust of his argument seemed to be that he thought Florida had a better chance to win. Leiter pissing in his ear probably didn't help. Why the hate for Delgado? So far everything you've said seems to be more grounded in rumor and speculation than anything else _____________________________ AN ALMIGHTY 119) KEVIN ELSTER POST

Benjamin Grimm Nov 23 2005 09:51 AM

I think he should call himself Grumpy Recap.

Edgy DC Nov 23 2005 09:52 AM

Take Petit and triple it, and that was the hype surrounding Pulsipher alone. Maybe. Triple it again for the three guys at once. ]IJake-Monster could become the next Jeff Bagwell, and Petit is as sure-fire a prospect as they come, and he'll likely be a #2 starter. I think that second part is somewhat inherently contradictory. As "sure-fire" as you say he is you're still projecting him for probably #2 status, which is hardly a consensus projection. I hate trading any young talent also. Even more than you probably.

Johnny Dickshot Nov 23 2005 09:54 AM

He's always happy.

Valadius Nov 23 2005 10:00 AM

Regardless, with Delgado on board, it focuses our attention on the catcher and second base positions, and to a lesser extent right field.

metirish Nov 23 2005 10:04 AM

Diaz is our right fielder,Hernandez will be the catcher, Matsui at second... Reyes Beltran Wright Delgado Floyd Diaz Hernandez Matsui Pitcher

Benjamin Grimm Nov 23 2005 10:05 AM

The Mets could have three Hernandezes next year, if they sign Ramon and retain Roberto and promote Anderson. That'll really mess up my Schaefer spreadsheet.

Valadius Nov 23 2005 10:06 AM

Watch Willie continue to bat Beltran third. That and/or Wright fifth.

metirish Nov 23 2005 10:08 AM

Yes Yancy so true, I screwed up that a few times last season with two Hernandezes in the squad...probably drives you nuts..still not a reason to not make this trade ..

HappyRecap Nov 23 2005 10:10 AM Yancy...Grumpy Recap...good one!

Elster, Here is my position...I don't have anything against Delgado but I hate getting players like him that are 5 minutes past their prime since the Mets have a huge history of getting guys like that. And if he has an okay year, we then have to watch his numbers decline on the back side of his contract where he looks more and more overpaid. There hasn't been one signing or trade of a stud player in his prime that has panned out since Piazza. And that includes Beltran based on his off year last year so based on this history getting excited about Delgado in November is hard to do. I also understand that this is NY and the Mets can't rebuild with youth all over the field. They also are starting their own network and you need the fans to see name players out there on the field, hence signing top-flight talent even if in two years it is a bad deal. And the other part of my no-Delgado stance is that I liked Jacobs from what I saw. Others point out that he was a failed catcher without a position but guys Torre, Biggio and Zeile all had very good careers after they found another position. And Jacobs at 1B wasn't like the Piazza debacle of two years ago. So that is where I stand...if he comes in and gets the job done and isn't some malcontent, fine, but I would have preferred to have given Jacobs a shot. HAPPY RECAP

Spacemans Bong Nov 23 2005 10:13 AM

Matsui will not be 2B. The Mets can't leave a gaping hole there.

Frayed Knot Nov 23 2005 10:14 AM

"Jake-Monster could become the next Jeff Bagwell" Very, very, VERY unlikely. And did I mention that it's very unlikely? "and Petit is as sure-fire a prospect as they come" No he isn't. I'm betting that there'll be at least a dozen or more pitchers rated more highly on the lists that'll come out this winter. One of the problems I believe fans (and others) have with deciding to deal or keep prospects is that they fail to distinguish amongst prospects. M&MD were knocking Milledge yesterday, for instance, by citing past minor leaguers who haven't made it without any sense of perspective about him in particular. It's as if every player with the letters 'P-R-O-S-P-E-C-T' stamped on his forehead is created equal and which ones to bet on or not is something that's a total crapshoot (shirley something they wouldn't say about college football draftees btw). Both Petit & Jacobs could turn out to be good players, but the above claims are unlike you'll see anyone with knowledge of their careers to date make. Not even close.

heep Nov 23 2005 10:19 AM

We traded quality, young talent for a 34 year old slugger you did not want to play for us. Bottom line. The only real positive is that it prevents us from trading Milledge. I hate that they traded Jacobs. Watch him win rookie of the year next year, and Petit go on to be a great ML pitcher. I am very ambivilent to this trade. Win - now. Never liked tha idea. Add Zambrano to Delgado as they guys I do not like, and Kazmir, Jacobs, and Petit as the ones that foolishly got away. Jeffy Wilpon at it again.

Rotblatt Nov 23 2005 10:22 AM

Not bad. We probably did overpay--I think Petit was too much--but all in all, I'm happy with this.

heep Nov 23 2005 10:23 AM

typo WE TRADED QUALITY YOUNG TALENT FOR A PLAYER WHO DID NOT WANT TO PLAY FOR US. bottom line. The mets: always trying to assemble and not build. f delgado. Jacobs was our guy.

Frayed Knot Nov 23 2005 10:27 AM

"Jeffy Wilpon at it again." And Jeff had what to do with this deal exactly? - Is there a particular "type" of deal that has a JW stamp on it, or do we have specific info here? - Or are we just taking a shot at the convienient target because we don't like it?

Elster88 Nov 23 2005 10:27 AM

Happy, I misjudged your argument. It makes a lot more sense when you put it the way you did just now. You and heep seem to represent the ideology that the younger players will turn out better then the older proven hitters (though Beltran is not old enough to be of use in your argument, IMO) that they are traded for. I'm of the belief that Delgado is not over the hill and that Jacobs is not guaranteed to even be half as good as Delgado will be for the next three years (more in line with the TITTS ideology, coined by Norrin [I think]). Only time will tell. IMO, a lot of Met fans have to get over the failures of Robbie Alomar and Mo Vaughn (going on three years ago), and realize that not every batter brought into Shea will fail to hit at their career norms. _____________________________ AN ALMIGHTY 119) KEVIN ELSTER POST

Edgy DC Nov 23 2005 10:27 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Aug 07 2007 11:29 AM

]I hate that they traded Jacobs. Watch him win rookie of the year next year, and Petit go on to be a great ML pitcher. This thread --- or its clone --- just made the prediction archives. ]I am very ambivilent to this trade. Win - now. Never liked tha idea. You sound far beyound ambivalent.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 23 2005 10:27 AM

"Jeffy Wilpon at it again?" Too funny. How is it that Jeff Wilpon made this deal?

Elster88 Nov 23 2005 10:28 AM

]M&MD were knocking Milledge yesterday Is MD still calling him Lance Milledge? I think M gave up on correcting him every time. _____________________________ AN ALMIGHTY 119) KEVIN ELSTER POST

Edgy DC Nov 23 2005 10:35 AM

If this deal went down a day earlier, Dickshot may have had a crack at a few more votes --- heep and Recap, for instance. Meanwhile Rockin hasn't appeared to claim his victory.

soupcan Nov 23 2005 10:36 AM

I'm gonna hazard a guess and say that all most of you who are bummed anbout this deal because you expected great things from Jacobs and Petite are in your mid-20's at most. As has been stated already - pitching prospects are so hard to predict. I mentioned David West in a previous post - remember him? I'm guessing not. Touted as a can't-miss, future #1 starting pitcher he was dealt to Minnesota in the Frank Viola deal. I was up in arms over his deal. Viola came here and went 20-12 in 1990. West's career numbers were 31-38, never winning more than 7 games in one season. There's two things I look at when a trade is made - does this deal bring my team closer to a World Series championship and if the player I traded away reaches his full potential would he become even close to the player I got? Well yes, I think that having Delgado's offense brings this team much closer to a WS than Jacobs would. And even if Jacobs is the real deal would he ever become as good a player as Delgado is right now? Not likely and even if he did, we traded him and got his best numbers right now in Delgado without having to wait for Jacobs to develop. In other words - TITTS baby, TITTS.

Zvon Nov 23 2005 10:38 AM

"Jacobs we hardly knew ye!" *Zvon sobs* Okay....(clears throat-UGHM-,wipes tear...) Im over it. Happy Thanksgiving to us. I bet this tilts the Wagner scales. We get that piece of the puzzle and then we see what kind of manager Randolf really is. I expect someday to see Jake Monster swat one in a crucial situation and think what could have been, but such is baseball. Three all-star infielders in 2006? Im one happy camper. I hope this takes rook 2baseman Anderson Hernandez and/or J.Seo off the table in that deal that was brewing for either catchers Paul Lo Duca (Fla.) or Toby Hall (Tampa) (read it in the NY Post yesterday)

Benjamin Grimm Nov 23 2005 10:38 AM

Not surprisingly, this is one fast-growing thread.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 23 2005 10:42 AM

A little more information on the deal on ESPN's web site, from the AP: ]Delgado's agent David Sloane said Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria called his client to inform him about the trade. The sides have not yet agreed on how to spread the money, the official said, with the Mets proposing Florida pays $1 million next year, $2 million in 2007 and $4 million in 2008. The Marlins proposed paying $2.5 million in 2007 and $4.5 million in 2008. The commissioner's office, which must approve the trade because more than $1 million is changing hands, will make the final decision, the official said. Players also must take physicals. First time, I think, that we have a named source acknowledging the deal.

Elster88 Nov 23 2005 10:43 AM

Not all of us mid-20 year olds are against the deal. _____________________________ AN ALMIGHTY 119) KEVIN ELSTER POST

Edgy DC Nov 23 2005 10:44 AM

Mets.com seems a little more confident in the completion of the deal, reporting that Delgado's agent has confirmed it.

heep Nov 23 2005 10:47 AM

I am 25, like Jacobs and dislike Delgado. The deal makes sense, but I do not like it, and I am entitled to point my finger at Jeff Wilpon if I want to . I can do that. Who is paying the 41 million over the next 3 years. Omar?

metirish Nov 23 2005 10:51 AM

Here's a treat for the holiday...you can listen to Jon Heyman break down this deal on audio.. http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-spheymanaudio1124,0,694829.audiogallery?coll=ny-sports-headlines

Benjamin Grimm Nov 23 2005 10:52 AM

Of course you are. You're also entitled to blame Oprah Winfrey, but that wouldn't make sense either.

Frayed Knot Nov 23 2005 10:55 AM

"The deal makes sense, but I do not like it" No one says you have to like it. Stating an opinion of things is what we do around here. "and I am entitled to point my finger at Jeff Wilpon if I want t." And I'm entitled to blame it on Oprah Winfrey if I want ... but that doesn't make it worth the breath it takes to say it. Some people find picking on the rich kid to be as fun as it is easy, but it also comes off as childish whining if it's not accurate. Here's your chance to tell us why you think it's accurate.

Frayed Knot Nov 23 2005 10:58 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 23 2005 11:00 AM

12:52 Yancy Street Gang wrote: You're also entitled to blame Oprah Winfrey, but that wouldn't make sense either. 12:55 ="Frayed Knot"]And I'm entitled to blame it on Oprah Winfrey if I want ... but that doesn't make it worth the breath it takes to say it OK, now THAT'S scary.

Centerfield Nov 23 2005 10:59 AM

Yancy: Of course you are. You're also entitled to blame Oprah Winfrey Frayed Knot: And I'm entitled to blame it on Oprah Winfrey if I want Wow. That was weird.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 23 2005 10:59 AM

Very weird. I'm just glad that mine posted before yours. Makes you look like the crazy one. Oprah's aura must be haunting the forum today.

Elster88 Nov 23 2005 11:01 AM

I love this trade! _____________________________ This post had the designation 118) Wally Whitehurst

metirish Nov 23 2005 11:02 AM

Elster88 Nov 23 2005 11:02 AM

After reading Yancy's, I was going to post that Oprah should be blamed for lots of things. Maybe a lot of people just don't like her? _____________________________ This post had the designation 118) Wally Whitehurst

Benjamin Grimm Nov 23 2005 11:03 AM

Too much information, Oprah. If Oprah is indeed here, you can be sure that I didn't invite her. Nobody I invite ever shows up.

heep Nov 23 2005 11:04 AM

I can tell you why I think its accurate: Fact: Omar is not paying Delgado's salary. Fact: We traded for a player who turned down a generous offer and chose not to play for us. I would not trade for a player who turned me down last year. Fuck him.

Johnny Dickshot Nov 23 2005 11:04 AM

She tried to lick my arsehole once. I hear she likes that.

Zvon Nov 23 2005 11:05 AM

I blame Stedman.

Centerfield Nov 23 2005 11:05 AM

="Yancy Street Gang"] If Oprah is indeed here, you can be sure that I didn't invite her. Nobody I invite ever shows up. Lol Yancy. But kudos to you for trying.

metirish Nov 23 2005 11:06 AM

heep, you don't build championship teams by holding a grudge, didn't Castillo spurn the Mets a few years ago when we were looking for a second baseman, yet Omar might still get him..

Edgy DC Nov 23 2005 11:07 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 23 2005 11:08 AM

]Fact: Omar is not paying Delgado's salary. Fact: We traded for a player who turned down a generous offer and chose not to play for us. I would not trade for a player who turned me down last year. Fuck him. It's all so unclear. What does this have to do with Oprah? Just about every player turns down an initial offer before accepting a subsequent one. Look at it that way.

Frayed Knot Nov 23 2005 11:08 AM

Fact: Omar is not paying Delgado's salary. Fact: Omar doesn't pay ANYONE'S salary. I guess this means Jeff masterminds all trades. "Fact: We traded for a player who turned down a generous offer and chose not to play for us." And this has what to do with Jeff?

heep Nov 23 2005 11:12 AM

Ok. Rationalize this with me. Perfect example: Wagner's offer. Who determines this? Jeff or Minaya? I say both. But who ultimately has the final say?

Benjamin Grimm Nov 23 2005 11:14 AM

I may have missed something: Has Fred died yet?

metirish Nov 23 2005 11:14 AM

Fred probably has the final say, but they trust Omar and have given him full autonomy in building the organization and team.

Zvon Nov 23 2005 11:14 AM

heep wrote: Ok. Rationalize this with me. Perfect example: Wagner's offer. Who determines this? Jeff or Minaya? I say both. But who ultimately has the final say? Stedman

Centerfield Nov 23 2005 11:18 AM

I wonder how Oprah feels about people with no talent like Tyra Banks getting their own talk show. Does she feel like it makes her look better in comparison? Or does she get insulted that people like Tyra think her job is so easy that she could do it. I think Oprah should model the next Victoria's Secret catalog just to make a point. (Yes, I am condoning lingerie pics of Oprah Winfrey)

heep Nov 23 2005 11:18 AM

I think Jeff and Omar are disgruntled that they could not buy Delgado last year. I think that irked them that they got turned down. Now, they have have the opportunity to take him from a division rival, as they do with Wagner. Smart move. I agree. Saves them the turmoil of trading Milledge. Ok. Next to Ramirez, the best run producer we can acquire this off-season.. Very nice. But me, (stubborn and young) would rather go with Jacobs. Like I said, f him and f zambrano.

heep Nov 23 2005 11:20 AM

"Fred probably has the final say, but they trust Omar and have given him full autonomy in building the organization and team" This is not building, this is assembling. Building (from within) would mean Jacobs and Petit.

seawolf17 Nov 23 2005 11:22 AM

Zvon wrote: ="heep"]Ok. Rationalize this with me. Perfect example: Wagner's offer. Who determines this? Jeff or Minaya? I say both. But who ultimately has the final say? Stedman LOL

duan Nov 23 2005 11:27 AM

What's Victor Zambrano done now?

Benjamin Grimm Nov 23 2005 11:27 AM

Here's my fearless prediction: Mike Jacobs will never hit 30 home runs in a major league season.

ScarletKnight41 Nov 23 2005 12:21 PM

[url=http://faithandfear.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2005/11/23/1419078.html]Greg's Analysis[/url] ]It may not be what the Pilgrims had in mind, but Happy Thanksgiving.

Elster88 Nov 23 2005 12:21 PM

heep wrote: I think Jeff and Omar are disgruntled that they could not buy Delgado last year. I think that irked them that they got turned down. Of course, you really have no way to know if this is true one way or the other.

Elster88 Nov 23 2005 12:27 PM

Buck Martinez called Delgado intelligent and said he always plays hard. The anti-Manny if you will. He said he was a terrible defensive first baseman. He absolutely loves Petit, citing his K/BB numbers and the fact that Venezuela produces great pitchers. I'm not sold on the latter, coming from Venezuela doesn't make you a great pitcher, but I think he said Petit was 115/13 last year. I've been on board with TITTS the whole time and not backing off, but that is impressive.

Zvon Nov 23 2005 12:32 PM

heep wrote: I think Jeff and Omar are disgruntled that they could not buy Delgado last year. I was thinkin about this just this morning when reading the paper (about Wagner touring NY) and wondered if thats why there was no Mets/Delgado trade talk from the Mets. I was wondering if Omar was purposly looking elsewhere as a re-snub to Delgados snub. i was even gonna bring it up here. Then I get online to see if we might get Wags for turkeyday, and we got Delgado. Wondering ceased.

heep Nov 23 2005 12:33 PM

="Yancy Street Gang"]Here's my fearless prediction: Mike Jacobs will never hit 30 home runs in a major league season. He's done it before in the minors.

Elster88 Nov 23 2005 12:34 PM Edited 3 time(s), most recently on Nov 23 2005 12:50 PM

Your point? On edit: Year---HR 99---4 00---7 01---3 02---11 03---17 04---2

heep Nov 23 2005 12:38 PM

Please tell me I'm missing something here: Who would trade for a player who rejected to play for us last year? Turned you down and accepted less money somewhere else. You think Delgado is a happy Met right now? How do we know he won't demand a trade, via marty noble's article on mets.com?

Elster88 Nov 23 2005 12:40 PM

You are missing something. I think people have tried to clue you in but you won't accept any argument but your own. If Delgado shits the bed and Mike Jacobs hits 30+ home runs each year for the next few years, I'll say you were right. But that's not happening.

metsmarathon Nov 23 2005 12:41 PM

Elster88 wrote: Not all of us mid-20 year olds are against the deal. i'm too old to dislike this trade. sigh.

heep Nov 23 2005 12:41 PM

My pont is you really have know way of knowing that. 30 homeruns, he hit over 30 last year alone between AA and ML.

Centerfield Nov 23 2005 12:41 PM

I think his point is that unlike Benny, Jacobs' late season success has less of a chance to be a fluke since there is some history for it...whereas Benny's power surge seemingly came from nowhere. Again, I distinguish guys like Jacobs from other "prospects" simply because he was able to have some success at the major league level, albeit for a short time. I'm sad to see him go because he had such a fluid swing, the ball jumped off his bat, and because he was such a likeable player. In other words, he looked like he was going to be a star. But I still stand behind this deal because in the best case scenario where everything breaks right, Jacobs would be Carlos Delgado, and with an aging staff, I'll take the sure thing over the promising young guy.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 23 2005 12:43 PM

heep wrote: Please tell me I'm missing something here: Who would trade for a player who rejected to play for us last year? Turned you down and accepted less money somewhere else. You think Delgado is a happy Met right now? How do we know he won't demand a trade, via marty noble's article on mets.com? Let him demand a trade. It could cost him millions and millions of dollars. And we could get back a talented young pitcher and a first baseman who once hit 17 homers in the minor leagues. Anyone, nobody exercises that option, because it's potentially too costly.

Nymr83 Nov 23 2005 12:45 PM

this is a great trade. Delgado is a top-10 hitter. Jacobs is an unproven youngster with no real position and he was never even thought of the way milledge/wright were in the minors, he could easily be a fluke (though i didnt think he is.) If he had been a well-thought-of prospect maybe i'd feel differently, but what makes him any different from the first month of Shane Spencer and Benny Agbayani?? Petit is a pitching prospect and i am universally untrusting of them, and he's not regarded as highly as many others. they are both probaby at the peak of their values right now (as are Heilman and Seo IMO, though i still want to keep them.) Delgado is, imo, 90% likely to do well here. unless BOTH Jacobs and Petit "beat the odds" and turn into good players we have won this trade. if one of them turns out good but not the other then the trade might be a wash. overall the probability is strong that this trade looks good for the Mets when looked back on ina few years. i'll make a few predictions based on this trade, feel free to save them as i'll stand by them: Carlos Delgado will place in the top 5 of the MVP voting as a Met at least once in the next 2 years. Yusmeiro Petit will, AT BEST, ultimately be another Kris Benson, a highly regarded prospect who turns into a league-average pitcher for most of his career (100 ERA+ most years), alternatively he will simply stink. Jacobs will be a starter for the next few years hitting 20ish homers and batting .280, he will then become a bench player providing power off of the bench.

heep Nov 23 2005 12:45 PM

I understand. Delgado will not shit the bed, I know. But I was anticipating a good year from Jacobs, he just looked like a good guy, too. We needed the O, and we got it substantially at 1b. I'll look forward to Milledge this August.

Elster88 Nov 23 2005 12:46 PM

I hear ya on liking Jacobs. I was looking forward to saying, for the next fifteen years, that I personally witnessed his first major league home run. I don't want to bash the guy. I just am loving the trade. I think the Mets in 2006 got much better with this move.

metsmarathon Nov 23 2005 12:54 PM

="heep"]My pont is you really have know way of knowing that. 30 homeruns, he hit over 30 last year alone between AA and ML. ithink the point is that while there is a chance, and i'll consider it fairly slight, that mike jacobs will hit 30 homers next year, there is a significantly greater likelihood that delgado will hit 30 homers next year. delgado is a tremendous offensive player. i expect that to continue, with some decline, granted. last season he was one of the ten best hitters in the league, and is not old enough that you would fear him falling off the proverbial cliff. jacobs, on the other hand, had a superb 100 at bats last season. he slugged friggin' .710! but do you really expect him to repeat that ths coming season? do you really expect him to continue to make such significant strides forward, or do you concede that his next season will likely see far more of a regression to the mean, given a full season's worth of at bats? you say you expect him to hit 30 homers next year. how many players have managed that feat in their first full season in the majors? is jacobs to be that good? i doubt it. delgado is the sure thing here. jacobs has a bit of potential, but as has been said elsewhere, that potential is unlikely to bring him to match what you can get of delgado now, and there's no waiting involved. and petit... well, truly rare is the pitcher who contributes meaningfully to a pennant chaser in his first go around, and there's a whole lot of scoutly disagreement as to his true ceiling. now, its hard to argue his performance, and the statistically minded side of me says to look to that as an indication of future performance, but there's just way too much subjective dissent for me to be a true believer. maybe his "unlikely" performance will bring him meaningfull success, but i'm more skeptical. while we had him, i remained hopeful, but that's all i had. hope. i typically bend against the TITTS side of these things, but in this case, i can hardly find fault. i really liked the player we gave up in jacobs, but in getting back delgado, i find a more than adequate salve.

Nymr83 Nov 23 2005 12:55 PM

SS Reyes (who still needs to get on base more) CF Beltran (in the spot where he belongs) 1B Delgado (who needs to drive Pierre in when you've got Reyes!) 3B Wright (L-R-L 3-5, or bat Wright 3rd if you don't care about that stuff) LF Floyd (he'll probably get hurt at some point) RF Diaz/Nady C Castro (career .220 or so, i'd like help here now that Jacobs is out) 2B Matsui/Hernandez/Keppinger (job should be up for grabs in ST) P this lineup still needs help, though it has improved considerably. i hope Beltran bats 2nd because one of those 2Bmen there would be awful. I'd like to see a bat in RF since there arent any i like at C or 2B available. Diaz deserves the chance in RF if we don't find someone better, i wouldn't platoon him unless necessary, i want to see what he can do playing every day. if our current options at 2B don't change by opening day i would start whoever has the best spring and play them everyday until theysuck, then go to the next guy. i wouldnt want 2 guys each getting 3 games a week, i'd rather run someoe out there consistently until he either shows he has it or doesnt.

Rotblatt Nov 23 2005 12:55 PM

Jake has put up nice minor league numbers. He struggled in 2002 and was hurt in 2004, but outside of that he has a pretty spotless record. His power, IMO, looks real. He started to develop some pop in 2003--mostly doubles--and those doubles turned into dingers in 2005. Around the same time, he started hitting for average, but he still doesn't walk much. Or didn't, until this year's Winter League, where he's walking a ton. I dunno what to think about him. There's a chance he's one of those late bloomers who is slowly putting everything together and he'll be a .300, 25 HR guy who gets on base at a .350 clip, but most places I've seen project him to be a back-up 1B or MAYBE an average regular at first. Petit has his detractors too, but his stats are sick sick sick and he's not slowing down this off-season . . .

Centerfield Nov 23 2005 12:58 PM

Of course, I want it to be understood that no endorsement of this deal that I give in this or any other thread should be construed as some sort of relinquishment of my right to bitch and moan should Delgado suck next year. If Carlos sucks, I knew this would happen and this is why you don't throw away good young prospects for expensive, aging DH-types.

Edgy DC Nov 23 2005 12:59 PM

I don't think Delgado should be understood to have disrespected the Mets. At the time, his side reported their calculations that the Mets' contract was worth $30,000 more in present-day value. Out of $52,000,000, we're talking about a difference of about .06%. He probably thought he'd make up the difference in cheaper plane tickets to Puerto Rico.

Valadius Nov 23 2005 01:30 PM

Delgado will shit the bed in every second half of the season that he's here. He's notorious for second-half slumps.

Elster88 Nov 23 2005 01:39 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 23 2005 01:41 PM

Valadius wrote: Delgado will shit the bed in every second half of the season that he's here. He's notorious for second-half slumps. Delgado's OPS Pre All Star Break 2002 -- .861 Post All Star Break 2002 --- 1.100 Pre All Star Break 2003 -- 1.053 Post All Star Break 2003 -- .966 Pre All Star Break 2004 -- .746 Post All Star Break 2004 --- 1.033 Pre All Star Break 2005 -- .922 Post All Star Break 2005 --- 1.070 _______________________________________ Keep them coming guys. I love it!

metirish Nov 23 2005 01:40 PM

Delgado post All-Star game in 05 had 208 AB in 58 games ,67 hits,15 doubles, 3 triples,15 homers,49 rbi,31 BB, 46 k's WITH A .322 AVG and his OBP was . 421...hardly shitting the bed... http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/5178/splits his numbers for his career are good in the second half... http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/5178/splits?year=career&type=Batting

seawolf17 Nov 23 2005 01:42 PM

Stop ruining people's opinions with facts, guys.

Elster88 Nov 23 2005 01:43 PM

So far, the statistical evidence against the trade is Jacobs' many minor league seasons hitting more than 30 home runs and Delgado's poor performances in the second half. I've got to calm down. I'm sure I've said some boneheaded things in the past, too.

Nymr83 Nov 23 2005 01:44 PM

thanks Elster, you beat me to it. his month by month OPS from 2002-2004 according to espn.com: Mar: .933 (3 at bats in 3 years) Apr: .971 May: .934 Jun: .955 Jul: .895 Aug: .996 Sep: .1080 Oct: .944 (regular season only, 12 atbats in 3 years) he seems to suffer from a poor july followed by an explosive aug/sep

Valadius Nov 23 2005 01:52 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 23 2005 01:55 PM

That's my point. And he always seems to have 100 RBI by the All-Star break and finishes with like 140.

Elster88 Nov 23 2005 01:53 PM

OTOH, maybe I shouldn't calm down. But my head is starting to hurt from the wall.

seawolf17 Nov 23 2005 01:57 PM

Valadius wrote: That's my point. And he always seems to have 100 RBI by the All-Star break and finishes with like 140. Perhaps that's a factor of the guys in front of him "shitting the bed" after the ASB, not him. Either way... when was the last time we had a 1B who drove in 140 runs and had a September OPS over 1.000? That would be never.

Gwreck Nov 23 2005 02:02 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: Anyone, nobody exercises that option, because it's potentially too costly. I'm not sure what it will cost him, but didn't Javy Vazquez just recently excercise his "demand a trade" right?

old original jb Nov 23 2005 02:02 PM I liked Jacobs, and I was intrigued by Petit, but.... Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 23 2005 02:07 PM

Carlos Delgado [u:4f410bd342]will continue to be [/u:4f410bd342]a major run producer while I feel certain that Jacobs [u:4f410bd342]has the potential to become [/u:4f410bd342]one. Therefore, having to face Delgdoa along with Floyd and Wright (while Reyes is wreaking havoc on the bases) will make pitching to the Mets something pitchers will dislike in a way that they would not if it were Jacobs instead of Delgado. You have to give up quality to get quality, unless you are in a rotisserie league or writing WATPs. The Mets got away with giving up potential quality in exchange for known quality, and you can't do much better than that. Bottom line: Delgado is a top tier player--of the caliber that has been rare on the Mets in recent years. I'll miss the kids, but I love this trade.

metirish Nov 23 2005 02:05 PM

Val can you look at the second link I posted please? http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/5178/splits?year=career&type=Batting

metsmarathon Nov 23 2005 02:16 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 23 2005 02:29 PM

="seawolf17"] ="Valadius"]That's my point. And he always seems to have 100 RBI by the All-Star break and finishes with like 140. Perhaps that's a factor of the guys in front of him "shitting the bed" after the ASB, not him. Either way... when was the last time we had a 1B who drove in 140 runs and had a September OPS over 1.000? That would be never. in 2003, he had 97 RBI at the break, and 48 after. in 2000, he had 80 at the break, 57 after. those are the only two seasons he really came close to what he always seems to do... is it because he slumps late in the season? edit: the colored text is flat out wrong. wrong wrong wrong! i have discredited it myself, and i therefore no longer believe in it. i have no clue what i was thinking. as you were. well, it is fair to say that his second halves have typically been worse than his first halves. some years, that is not the case, but i would say that on average, since becoming a really good hitter, his OPS will drop by about 50 points post ASB. but why then do his RBI totals drop so? quite simply, its because there are about a month fewer games post ASB the pre ASB.

Elster88 Nov 23 2005 02:23 PM

Delgado's OPS Pre All Star Break 2002 -- .861 Post All Star Break 2002 --- 1.100 Pre All Star Break 2003 -- 1.053 Post All Star Break 2003 -- .966 Pre All Star Break 2004 -- .746 Post All Star Break 2004 --- 1.033 Pre All Star Break 2005 -- .922 Post All Star Break 2005 --- 1.070

metsmarathon Nov 23 2005 02:26 PM

ok, well that link contradicts my quicklook... lets look at this (quickly again) year pre post diff 2005 0.922 1.070 0.148 2004* 0.746 1.033 0.287 2003 1.053 0.966 -0.087 2002 0.861 1.100 0.239 2001 0.924 0.976 0.052 2000 1.185 1.068 -0.117 1999 0.844 1.104 0.260 1998 1.004 0.952 -0.052 1997 0.909 0.848 -0.061 avg 0.939 1.013 0.074 avg* 0.963 1.011 0.048 - omitting 2004 due to injury well, heck. even if i get rid of 2004, forgiving his early season for injury, he's 40 points better post ASB. what the hell was i looking at earlier? musta just been the truly big years, i guess. so, thus, any real concern that he's a post ASB fader should be readily dismissed looking at the above. yippee, again.

Frayed Knot Nov 23 2005 02:31 PM

]I'm not sure what it will cost him, but didn't Javy Vazquez just recently excercise his "demand a trade" right? Yes, and numerous players over the years have used the right granted in the basic agreement to players dealt during a long-term contract and filed a demand to be traded. Some of those demands have resulted in a trade. However (Yancy's point) every single player who was NOT dealt eventually withdrew their demand rather then losing out on the remainder of their current deal and risking FA-gency I also heard Buck Martinez gush about Petit - and his opinion was MUCH more positive than anything I had heard/read anywhere. He basically compared him to Felix Hernandez (Seattle's call-up from last summer) a comparison that seems almost foreign. Petit was lauded for his control and guile more than his "stuff" while scouts yakking about Hernandez couldn't get enough of how "nasty" his stuff was in addition to his control & pitching smarts. And, he was doing it at more advanced levels at a younger age than Petit. I think most evaluators would scoff at Buck's comparison. He also didn't help his credibility on the subject by describing Petit as a hard thrower, something he's definitely not.

Elster88 Nov 23 2005 02:39 PM

The White Sox just traded [url=http://cybermessageboard.ehost.com/getalife/viewtopic.php?t=1829]Aaron Rowand for Jim Thome.[/url] Who made out better today, the Mets or the White Sox?

sharpie Nov 23 2005 02:52 PM

I take Delgado over Thome any time.

TheOldMole Nov 23 2005 03:05 PM

Mets.

DocTee Nov 23 2005 04:48 PM

My off-season scorecard has the Phils and Mets leading Bosox, Pale Hose and Fish (in that order).

Edgy DC Nov 23 2005 06:56 PM

Is criticism of this deal really really reduced to the notion that Delgado typically fails to get 200 RBIs?

Benjamin Grimm Nov 23 2005 08:19 PM

Interesting paragraph from Marty Noble on MLB.com: ]The Mets' interest in dealing for Delgado, as opposed to Ramirez, came to light last week after Mike Cameron was traded to the Padres for Xavier Nady, who now is likely to play right field, at least against left-handed pitchers. Cameron was thought to be a player the Red Sox coveted and would need if free agent center fielder Johnny Damon didn't re-sign with them. With Cameron gone, the Mets seemingly would have to pay for a Ramirez trade with a package that would include outfield prospect Lastings Milledge, a player they hope to retain in anticipation of the expiration of Cliff Floyd's contract following next season. The last clause of the final sentence is worth noting. Noble is a good reporter; I hope that's based on solid inside information.

metirish Nov 23 2005 08:29 PM

Nice bit of info that,and it makes sence....and if Delgado still sits for God Bless America he'll have less of a chance at Shea....from Ken Davidoff at Newsday... ] Delgado also caused controversy in 2004, his final season with Toronto, when he revealed he refusal to stand during "God Bless America." The Mets play the song only on Sundays and holidays. I don't think think he does it anymore anyway.

smg58 Nov 23 2005 09:55 PM

I know I'm late to most of this thread, but today has been hectic. I like Delgado, and I'm glad he's here, but if winning now was so important why didn't we offer more money last year? We're basically paying the same money per year, for one less year (and he would have benefited the team enormously last year), and now we've given up two players we might miss later. It almost seems like an admission of a mistake on Minaya's part. Regarding ballparks: 146 HR were hit in Mets home games last year, and 164 in Mets road games. 109 HR were hit in Marlins home games, and 135 in Marlins road games. Yes Shea isn't ideal for power hitters, but Pro Player is actually worse, so there is no reason to question Delgado's ability to hit here. And Shea is more favorable to lefties than righties; somebody suggested that we haven't had a lefty power hitter to take advantage of that, but I think Cliff Floyd would disagree. I'd project Jacobs as getting an .850 OPS, with very large error bars. Delgado should be at least 100 points higher, with much smaller error bars. I like Jacobs, but there would have been an element of risk playing him at first. (Then again, I think there is a bigger risk going with Diaz or Nady in right field than Jacobs would be at first, but we'll see how things pan out.) The Red Sox haggled the Marlins into accepting their second best pitching prospect instead of their first, and it's not clear who else could have taken on as much of Delgado's contract as the Mets, so I think Olney may have a point that this deal could have been made for less. I have a long-term concern with the Mets' direction, though. Assuming there's a limit to how much the Mets can spend -- and I have to think Delgado would have been here last year if there wasn't -- they can only go to the well so often. Beltran's contract is very heavily backloaded, and Reyes and Wright will soon have rapidly escalating salaries. If Minaya is not careful, the Mets could wind up in a few years with no money to spend and no minor-league talent to supplant aging players. In other words, if they're aiming to win now, then they sure as hell had better win now.

Frayed Knot Nov 23 2005 09:59 PM

Omar seems to want to move quickly and the BoSox are in no hurry concerning Manny. Waiting for Boston to find a GM and wondering if Manny's mood-du-jour would accept a deal to NYC could potentially have caused a lot of missed moves - like previously unexpected fire sales f'rinstance. Of course now the Cammy/Nady swap makes less sense. Nady just lost at least half a job.

Edgy DC Nov 23 2005 10:25 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 23 2005 10:43 PM

On admitting an error: My own calculations here. The deal both the Mets and Marlins offered last year was for approximately four years and $52 million. That's an average annual value of $13 million. But the first season of the Marlin deal he signed only paid him four million. That brings the average annual value of the remaining three years of the deal up to a whamming $16 million. But the Marlins sent seven million with him, which takes it back down to $13.67 million. So the Mets appear to be paying a little more than they offered him last year. You look at the players the Mets gave up this year. But also consider the two high draft picks they didn't give up by signing him. That's no wash, though --- two advanced prospects seem to me to be worth more than two early (Nos. 16- 65) draft picks, but it certainly ameliorates the difference. So the Mets are paying 2/3 of a million more per, plus give up the difference between Jacobs/Petit and two high draft picks. Plus he's a year older. The flip side to consider. They're locked in for one fewer year, they get him in a market that is likely more expensive (though the fire sale itself may hurt that), and they acquire him coming off a year with a 161 OPS+ rather than coming off the 128 with which he was signed. So, yeah, I guess they wish they got him last year. But admitting an error is a deliberately negative way to view that. They had matched the Marlins offer, so it likely would've taken another mill to get him to change his mind, maybe more.

metirish Nov 23 2005 10:33 PM

] I like Delgado, and I'm glad he's here, but if winning now was so important why didn't we offer more money last year? We're basically paying the same money per year, for one less year (and he would have benefited the team enormously last year), and now we've given up two players we might miss later. It almost seems like an admission of a mistake on Minaya's part. The Mets IIRC offered as much if not more last year, Delgado felt the Marlins were a better fit and had a better chance to win than the Mets, plus he was insulted by Omar's hispanic crew.......I read a few days ago that Omar introduced Tony Bernazard to Delgado recently at a function and Delgado retorted back.."oh yeah the highest paid interperter in the world".....I am very curious to hear what Delgado thinks aobut this trade.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 24 2005 05:38 AM

No direct quotes from Delgado yet, but here's what his agent said, as quoted in the Daily News: ]"Whatever happened last year was a matter of the way negotiations go," agent David Sloane said. Sloane said Delgado now was ecstatic. "One thing I would like to clear up: Last year had nothing to do with not wanting to play with the Mets," Sloane said. "Carlos felt in '05 the Marlins offered him the best opportunity to play in the World Series. That being said, in '06 the Mets will offer the best opportunity to play in the World Series. That was it, plain and simple. It had nothing to do with him not liking New York. He has family in New York. He loves the city and the people."

Vic Sage Nov 24 2005 09:19 AM

the TITTS say "yea, verily, yea!"

Benjamin Grimm Nov 24 2005 10:13 AM

From Bob Klapisch, some insight on why Delgado was offended by the Mets' approach last winter: ]Things got so bad that at last year's winter meetings, Delgado derisively called Bernazard, "the highest paid translator on the planet." How, exactly, did their relationship disintegrate? According to one person familiar with the dialogue, Bernazard made the mistake of addressing Delgado in "street" Spanish, either unaware or indifferent to the fact that Delgado is intelligent, well-spoken and highly principled. One two occasions, Delgado had Sloane tell the Mets to keep Bernazard away from the recruitment process -- or as the source put it, "he didn't want to have anything to do with the guy."

Benjamin Grimm Nov 24 2005 05:58 PM

The deal is now official.

Valadius Nov 24 2005 06:16 PM

The Mets have acquired Carlos Delgado from the Marlins for Mike Jacobs, Yusmeiro Petit, and Grant Psomas. Who is Grant Psomas?

Nymr83 Nov 24 2005 06:23 PM

never heard of him.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 24 2005 07:21 PM

Me neither. But now that I found out that Grant Psomas is in the deal, I'm opposed to it. He's sure to be the next Mike Schmidt.

Edgy DC Nov 24 2005 08:15 PM

Psomas is a middling third-base prospect. The system is pretty thick at third right now, and, obviously, they seem set at the big-league level.

Edgy DC Nov 24 2005 08:38 PM

Omar Minaya Dear Mets fans, I am pleased to announce that we have concluded a trade with the Florida Marlins that will bring left-handed slugging first baseman Carlos Delgado to the New York Mets. The acquisition of one of the game's top stars, a proven "big bat," brings us closer to our goal of fielding a championship caliber team in 2006. Carlos is a true impact player. His offensive numbers and consistency speak for themselves: .301 AVG., 33 HR, 115 RBI in 2005, finishing among the top 12 National League players in slugging percentage, RBI, HR, 2B and AVG. .286 AVG., 35 HR, 113 RBI, .561 slugging percentage and a .404 on-base percentage over the last five seasons. One of nine players in Major League history to hit 30+ HR in nine consecutive seasons. Carlos Delgado hits a homer into San Francisco's McCovey Cove. In the weeks ahead, we will continue our aggressive pursuit of quality players to fortify our strengths, address our needs, and field the team that Mets fans deserve in 2006. The acquisition of Carlos Delgado is an important first step, and we hope to bring you more exciting announcements as the off-season progresses. On behalf of the entire Mets family, we wish you and yours a happy and healthy Thanksgiving holiday. Sincerely, Omar Minaya Executive Vice President & General Manager New York Mets

metirish Nov 24 2005 08:40 PM

I love Omar, when I read him I hear his voice in my head..it's weird.

Edgy DC Nov 24 2005 09:25 PM

Hoch says that The Sun says...

Johnny Dickshot Nov 24 2005 09:48 PM

I didn't know Grant Psomas was included too. I'm sure he's a longshot for a MLB career but he had nice numbers this year. So the Marlins and the Mets thought about including Milledge in a deal but didn't. Hohum.

Nymr83 Nov 24 2005 10:24 PM

Bryan Hoch ran some mets rumormill site until greedy mlb shut him down, right? while Milledge is more valuable than Petit OR Jacobs, i'd still rather have the two of them than him, and i doubt the Marlins would have gotten Milledge along with 1 of them, so they probably made the right "decision" if there was actually a choice involved.

Valadius Nov 25 2005 02:15 AM

What are we going to end up doing with Milledge, anyway?

Frayed Knot Nov 25 2005 07:10 AM

1) Wait until he's ready 2) Play him in the outfield somewhere

metsmarathon Nov 25 2005 08:39 AM

Nymr83 wrote: Bryan Hoch ran some mets rumormill site until greedy mlb shut him down, right? heh... something like that.

Edgy DC Nov 25 2005 09:57 AM

There's some hate for the trade in this thread, but not in the voting.

SwitchHitter Nov 25 2005 12:34 PM

Well, I've been quiet on this thread. Mark me down as someone who doesn't care.

MFS62 Nov 25 2005 12:39 PM

If the Mets do go out and get a premier closer, at least I am now much more comfortable that he will have more late inning leads to protect. Delgado will be a dynamic presence in the lineup. Later

Elster88 Nov 27 2005 02:15 PM

]"One thing I would like to clear up: Last year had nothing to do with not wanting to play with the Mets," Sloane said. "Carlos felt in '05 the Marlins offered him the best opportunity to play in the World Series. That being said, in '06 the Mets will offer the best opportunity to play in the World Series. That was it, plain and simple. It had nothing to do with him not liking New York. He has family in New York. He loves the city and the people." As expected.

Nymr83 Nov 27 2005 04:38 PM

well what was he going to say? "i'm against this trade, i hate NY and i'll be demanding a trade after next season as is my right"

Edgy DC Nov 27 2005 04:53 PM

Well, he didn't say anything, yet.

Nymr83 Nov 27 2005 05:19 PM

true, that was his agent speaking. maybe Carlos really isn't happy?

Frayed Knot Nov 27 2005 07:51 PM

Carlos will have some questions to answer at the press conference (I think it's sked for Monday, no?) and I'm sure the scribes will make a big deal out of; a) the G-B-A "controversy" and b) his "anti-NYC" stance of last year Personally I don't care about either of these although those are questions that "need" to be asked. I am getting a kick out of some of the anti-Delgado sentiment I'm hearing from Met fans. On the one issue you'd swear he pissed on the constitution while wearing his bin Laden underwear. While on the other there are fans who are acting as if broken-hearted school girls who'll never speak to Carlos again after he ditch them on the way to the prom last year. Oh God, he spurned us once and I don't see how we can ever take him back". Geez get over it!

Edgy DC Nov 27 2005 08:05 PM

There are peeps out there who really care about who stands during "God Bless America"?

Frayed Knot Nov 27 2005 08:13 PM

Multitudes of them ... or at least a fairly loud minority.

Edgy DC Nov 27 2005 08:13 PM

I mean, we know the drill, right? If he hits 30+ homers, he's a hero who follows his conscience. If he hits 20-, he's a traitor unfit for public display.

metirish Nov 27 2005 08:14 PM

I'm sure there are plenty of people that care, the Mets only play "God Bless America" on holidays and on Sunday though.

Edgy DC Nov 27 2005 08:19 PM

I think most of them are pretending to care because hate feels good. Give them about six weeks and they'll find some other Ayatollah to stoke their furnaces with. The dogs bark but the caravan passes.

metirish Nov 27 2005 08:22 PM

I imagine Delgado could never play for the Yankees because of the 7th inning stretch they put on, what with Ronan Tyan and flyovers he'd be standing for 15 minutes.

Rockin' Doc Nov 27 2005 09:36 PM

Late coming to this thread due to travels over the holiday weekend. I was quite surprised, but happy upon hearing of the trade for Delgado. After having a few days to think on the trade, I'm still quite happy with it. Sad to see Jacobs go, since he definitely looked to have the potential to be a good player. But I'll generally take a proven comodity over a relatively unproven prospect. As for Petit, his minor league numbers are sick, but he hasn't faced a major league batter yet. He may turn in to a very good major league pitcher, but he may become a journeyman that never establishes himself at the major league level. Baseball history is littered with promising young prospects that never quite made good on their "promise". Petit is more likely to be the next Todd Van Poppel as he is the next Tom Seaver. Likely he will end up somewhere between the extremes of the player career scales.

Nymr83 Nov 28 2005 12:20 AM

]Baseball history is littered with promising young prospects that never quite made good on their "promise". Petit is more likely to be the next Todd Van Poppel as he is the next Tom Seaver. Likely he will end up somewhere between the extremes of the player career scales. very true. And i'll add to that by saying that, despite what the NY media will sometimes have you believe, not every pitching prospect is the "next Seaver," this guy projects to be a "#2" at best. i think the best case scenario for him (in terms of reasonable outcomes, not the .003% chance of becoming Tom Glavine) is a Rick Reed-like career, which is very good for him, but not worth losing out on Delgado and not a sure thing anyway. I still stick by my intial prediction of him being a total bust however.

ScarletKnight41 Nov 28 2005 10:39 AM

"I'm here because I want to win," says Carlos at his press conference. Carlos is wearing a white #21 jersey.

ScarletKnight41 Nov 28 2005 10:40 AM

"I want to be part of the New York community and I want to help the Mets go to the next level." "Carlos Beltran is a good friend of mine." "I'm looking forward to having some fun and winning a championship."

ScarletKnight41 Nov 28 2005 10:44 AM

"New York fans are very passionate." "I'm ready to play in New York" "The fans have great expectations, and the fans are going to let you know."

metirish Nov 28 2005 10:47 AM

You can watch on Mets.com..he looks good in the white top

metirish Nov 28 2005 10:52 AM

says he will stand for "God Bless America", Mr.Wilpon asked him his views on the matter, Delgado told him his views but said that he would not put himself above the team, the Mets policy is for the whole team to stand for "God Bless America", and that's fine with him

Edgy DC Nov 28 2005 10:52 AM

At that point the cliche police came in with their billy clubs, knocked him senseless, and threw him in the back of the wagon.

ScarletKnight41 Nov 28 2005 10:53 AM

"I wanted Number 25, but Mr. Matsui has it, so I took #21"

ScarletKnight41 Nov 28 2005 10:54 AM

"Once you come to New York you're going to feed off the energy that is here." "I'm not crazy about the cold weather."

Nymr83 Nov 28 2005 10:56 AM

25 should be vacated for you shortly.

Edgy DC Nov 28 2005 10:56 AM

"He's still shooting them off. Get him under control, Officer!"

metirish Nov 28 2005 10:57 AM

Was full of praise for Wright, wishes he could hit like him, or something like that.

Elster88 Nov 28 2005 11:00 AM

Edgy DC wrote: At that point the cliche police came in with their billy clubs, knocked him senseless, and threw him in the back of the wagon. Let's leave him alone. David Wright is in that wagon, too.

Edgy DC Nov 28 2005 11:03 AM

Just having fun. It's not like I (or any reasonably smart player) wouldn't be saying a lot of the same things. Is it a bilingual press conference?

metirish Nov 28 2005 11:05 AM

Yes, some questions were asked in Spanish and answered in spanish...he seemed ok about it...

G-Fafif Nov 28 2005 11:07 AM

I can see the headlines: PLAYER HAPPY TO BE HERE Excited to Join New Team

Benjamin Grimm Nov 28 2005 11:07 AM

I guess it wasn't "street Spanish."

Centerfield Nov 28 2005 11:11 AM

Yancy: I guess it wasn't "street Spanish." The Sharks think Delgado is a major sellout.

ScarletKnight41 Nov 28 2005 11:23 AM

Johnny Dickshot Nov 28 2005 11:24 AM

Willie (under his breath): Shave that godawful beard off.... NOW!!!! Carlos (same): Fuck you Willie.

metirish Nov 28 2005 11:25 AM

Did we resign Lenny Harris...lose some weight Carlos..

ScarletKnight41 Nov 28 2005 12:27 PM

I can't find the Wifey Watch thread, but I have something for it - Carlos Delgado, left, and his fiance Betzaida Garcia smile after taking their seats before Delgado was introduced as the New York Mets new first baseman, Monday, Nov. 28, 2005, at Shea Stadium in New York. (AP Photo/Kathy Willens)

Benjamin Grimm Nov 28 2005 12:30 PM

Betzaida. That's a name I've never heard before. If they call her "Betz" it rhymes with Mets. (Might be useful if we ever do a wives song parody contest.)

Edgy DC Nov 28 2005 12:41 PM

Paydirt. Thanks. Hopefully it's not her last appearance. It's unfortunate when we meet a wife in mid-winter, pastey, turtlenecked, and jet-lagged, and that becomes the permanent image in our gallery. And Shandia Anderson, we hardly knew ye'. Literally.

sharpie Nov 28 2005 12:44 PM

Until Carlos makes an honest woman of Betzaida she shouldn't be in the wifey watch thread.

Edgy DC Nov 28 2005 12:46 PM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Nov 28 2005 01:03 PM

Fiancés have always been welcome.

ScarletKnight41 Nov 28 2005 12:47 PM

Edgy DC wrote: Hopefully it's not her last appearance. It's unfortunate when we meet a wife in mid-winter, pastey, turtlenecked, and jet-lagged, and that becomes the permanent image in our gallery. It could be worse. At least she's smiling, and she hasn't just walked off an airplane. I think she looks quite nice.

metirish Nov 28 2005 12:48 PM

Willie looks great, Delgado is huge, or maybe Willie is small, is that a WS ring Willie is wearing?

Edgy DC Nov 28 2005 01:04 PM

Hey, personally, I'd be grateful to be on Kwan Hun-Jung's dance card.

Willets Point Nov 28 2005 03:30 PM

Wifey Watch is wallowing in the Featured Archives wearing that same old shabby dress. C'mon Edgy, just some flowers, dinner -- try a little tenderness.

Edgy DC Nov 28 2005 08:02 PM

We'll leave that be and re-launch an '06 version.

metirish Nov 28 2005 09:04 PM

Wally Matthews thinks Delgado should protest... ] Carlos should've stayed course November 29, 2005 In 1966, Muhammad Ali refused to submit to the draft and fight in a war he opposed on religious grounds. That decision cost Ali nearly four years of his athletic prime and countless millions. Nearly 40 years later, Carlos Delgado, with more than $40 million guaranteed him over the next four seasons, has been faced with a choice not nearly so gut-wrenching and with none of the consequences that confronted Ali. He could continue the silent protest he had begun as a member of the Toronto Blue Jays and continued during his one season as a Florida Marlin, in which he would slip away to the clubhouse while his teammates stood for the playing of "God Bless America." Or, if he wanted to fit in with the Mets, he could swallow his convictions and stand like everyone else. Delgado chose the latter. It is up to each individual to decide if this represents progress or regress. To Delgado, it simply represents reality. "I think the most important thing about integrity," he said yesterday, "is to realize what your priorities are." For Delgado, who was acquired for Mike Jacobs, Yusmeiro Petit and Grant Psomas last week, that priority is to win enough ballgames to make it to the playoffs, one of the few goals he has yet to achieve in 12 seasons. "I'm a competitor," he said. "When you're a competitor and you don't win, it -- -- , man." In the past eight years, Delgado has averaged 38 home runs and 119 RBIs per season, which makes him very good. But his stance on the war, unpopular at first but now shared by a majority of the country, according to recent polls, made him special. Even if you disagree with his politics, Delgado's willingness to break out of the mold corporate America loves to jam us in set him apart from the thousands of interchangeable young men who thrive athletically and financially in our sports-crazed culture. And it is tough to believe that the Mets, desperately in need of a big bat in the middle of their lineup, would have considered Delgado's silent protest a deal-breaker. So it was mildly disappointing when Delgado, informed by the Mets of the "team rule" concerning "God Bless America," readily agreed to be a team player. "I follow orders," he said. Delgado, of Puerto Rican descent, has always seemed a man whose sensibilities go beyond the ballpark and whose reading does not begin and end with the boxscores. He was a vocal critic of the U.S. military maneuvers in Vieques, P.R., and two years after their cessation, he remains active in the efforts to clean up the environmental damage done by years of weapons testing there. And after the U.S. invaded Iraq in 2003, Delgado began his own quiet protest against what he has called "the stupidest war ever." Yesterday, Delgado's agent, David Sloane, said, "He told me he felt ["God Bless America"] needlessly brought politics into baseball, and he felt those two things should never be combined. He never called attention to himself. He just chose to go quietly to the dugout and sit down." By doing so, Delgado was not demonstrating his lack of patriotism. Quite the opposite. He was invoking that most basic of American freedoms, the right to free speech, independent thought, the holding of a dissenting opinion. Predictably, he was vilified for it at visiting ballparks around the country, especially at Yankee Stadium, which is run by George Steinbrenner as if it were West Point South, and last year at Shea Stadium. But now Carlos Delgado is not just some visiting pacifist. He is our pacifist. Thus embol.dened by the home uniform and justified by changing popular opinion, it might have been safe to assume Delgado would bring his silent protest to Flushing with him. But no. One of the few pro athletes who had the guts to say no is now a yes man. And the silencing of his voice, whether you agree with it or not, is not a victory for democracy but a defeat. "Fred has asked and I've asked him to respect what the country wants to do," said Mets senior executive vice president and first son Jeff Wilpon, who must not read the front of the newspaper. "If the team rule is everybody stands for 'God Bless America,' he's going to stand. We told him we would like it if he did." The official line of Mets thinking is that to allow Delgado to continue his protest would create "a distraction" on the team. Delgado was asked yesterday if that was the case in Toronto or Florida. "Not at all," he replied. "It was never an issue." And yet, here, in a city that considers itself the most sophisticated in the country, if not the world, it seems as if conformity ranks second only to offensive production. "If you hit, they're gonna like you," Delgado said. "If you don't hit, they're gonna boo." No matter how well he performs as a Met, he already is less than he could have been.

Elster88 Nov 28 2005 09:15 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 28 2005 09:30 PM

Would someone write to Wally Matthews and explain that Delgado's decision not to stand was not about the war? OE: Changed "right" to "write". This is why I shouldn't [u:d0201e0897]write[/u:d0201e0897] said letter myself.

mlbaseballtalk Nov 28 2005 09:25 PM

Ditto with Michael Kay. Though Matthews is one of the ones who thought Yogi Berra should still have boycotted Yankee Stadium Wally is not one to bury hatchets, his comment to people who ripped Piazza for not "accepting" an apology from Clemens has always been along the lines of "Why the hell should he accept, families have always had long standing feuds so why do you want athletes to forgive and forget?" I think its more the priciples of the protest than the reasons that Kay/Matthews are upset about, the sudden "lack of convictions" and perceived comformity in order to "make people happy" which can make people seem very phoney Steve

metirish Nov 28 2005 09:28 PM

That is part of the problem here Elster, Delgado's protest apparently evolved from the the United States Navy's use of Vieques as a bombing site into the use of "God Bless America" as a rallying cry for the war in Iraq and all things patriotic, at least that's how I read it....

mlbaseballtalk Nov 29 2005 03:34 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 29 2005 03:39 PM

metirish wrote: That is part of the problem here Elster, Delgado's protest apparently evolved from the the United States Navy's use of Vieques as a bombing site into the use of "God Bless America" as a rallying cry for the war in Iraq and all things patriotic, at least that's how I read it.... I have a feeling most of the posturing by folks like Kay, Matthews, and others, is based on their own anti-war, anti-Bush sentiments, and so after Delgado "backs away" from his original protest they become enraged thinking that the guy is backing off his stance for the good of the team

Elster88 Nov 29 2005 03:37 PM

Engaged or enraged? 42 voters in this poll. More than any parody.

mlbaseballtalk Nov 29 2005 05:51 PM

By the way, I'm surprised no one has jumped on Delgado's willingness to switch uniforms as a sign of "being a corporate pushover" or whatever And its not the first time this has happened. Clemens went to Toronto and I think getting 21 from Delgado costed a couple of Rolexs. Clemens goes to NY and "fan favorite" Paul O'Neill was all "NO FUCKING WAY!" with parting with 21 So now, Carlos Delgado, probably a B-level star (i.e. not quite on the "Future HOFer" level) comes to a new team and just lets a bonafide bust in Kaz Matsui keep the uniform number? I'm shocked that no one picked up on that, which along with the "ending" of the protest, would lead a cynical "caustic fucktard" to view Delgado as the most passive Met this side of Kevin McReynolds! Steve

OlerudOwned Nov 29 2005 06:02 PM

Maybe he didnt mind getting 21 back, since Clemens had taken it from him all those years ago. Or it's just a number to him.

Johnny Dickshot Nov 29 2005 06:31 PM

People forget Kaz Matsui selflessly surrendered his digits when he stood in the Diamond Club and accepted 25 (he was 7 in Japan while Jose Reyes was playing ball with a rolled up sock and a sugar tree branch).

mlbaseballtalk Nov 29 2005 07:08 PM

OlerudOwned wrote: Maybe he didnt mind getting 21 back, since Clemens had taken it from him all those years ago. Or it's just a number to him. I'm not saying anything was wrong, I was just surprised that the same people picking up on the "He pussied out on his anti-war stance, that corporate sellout" side of the argument haven't made any mention of this

OlerudOwned Nov 29 2005 07:21 PM

mlbaseballtalk wrote: ="OlerudOwned"]Maybe he didnt mind getting 21 back, since Clemens had taken it from him all those years ago. Or it's just a number to him. I'm not saying anything was wrong, I was just surprised that the same people picking up on the "He pussied out on his anti-war stance, that corporate sellout" side of the argument haven't made any mention of this Either they dont see jersey numbers quite being on the same level as war protests, or they went for the easy story.

metirish Nov 29 2005 08:04 PM

Delgado had # 21 before to pay homage to Roberto Clemente so he's apparently happy to wear it.

Edgy DC Nov 30 2005 11:04 PM

From the Toronto Star: WEDDING OF THE YEAR If you haven’t already secured an invite for this Saturday’s wedding in Puerto Rico for Carlos Delgado and his fiancee, Betzy Garcia, then forget about crashing it. The location is being kept highly secretive, given the new New York Mets slugger’s immense popularity on the island, and the guest list has been limited to about 250 - 200 from her amply-populated side, another 50 from his. Delgado’s agent, David Sloane, who will attend the wedding with his wife, says the story of Betzy and his client dates back to when they were children. The soon-to-be Betzy Delgado began dating the former Blue Jays star back in 2001. Delgado had recently broken up with his Toronto-based girlfriend following a winter vacation in Australia when he was introduced to Betzy at a charity fundraiser hosted by her family. Her first words to Delgado were “You probably don’t remember me, but I used to go to the school across the street from yours.’’ Turns out Betzy was from Delgado’s hometown of Aguadilla and she and her female classmates used to stand outside their school entrance and watch Delgado as he’d arrive with his books in tow. The story Betzy has told others is that the girls would take turns saying “There’s Carlos Delgado, he’s my boyfriend’’ while another would interject and go “No, he’s my boyfriend.’’ Shortly after they got together, Betzy telephoned one of her old school chums and declared “You know what? He really is my boyfriend!’’ Also featured, some silly cheap shots at Fred Wilpon.

duan Dec 01 2005 02:59 AM

"By the way, I'm surprised no one has jumped on Delgado's willingness to switch uniforms as a sign of "being a corporate pushover" or whatever And its not the first time this has happened. Clemens went to Toronto and I think getting 21 from Delgado costed a couple of Rolexs. Clemens goes to NY and "fan favorite" Paul O'Neill was all "NO FUCKING WAY!" with parting with 21 So now, Carlos Delgado, probably a B-level star (i.e. not quite on the "Future HOFer" level) comes to a new team and just lets a bonafide bust in Kaz Matsui keep the uniform number? I'm shocked that no one picked up on that, which along with the "ending" of the protest, would lead a cynical "caustic fucktard" to view Delgado as the most passive Met this side of Kevin McReynolds! Steve" This is the most ridiculous nonsense I've ever heard.

mlbaseballtalk Dec 01 2005 03:39 PM

Which is why I'm surprised no one with an Anti-Met bias in the media or calling up sports radio has said such nonsense, since usually they do have nonsensical rants such as that

Edgy DC Dec 06 2005 02:41 PM

]Ex-Marlin Carlos Delgado walks down aisle New York Mets first baseman Carlos Delgado married his girlfriend in his native Puerto Rico, a newspaper reported. Delgado, 33, and Betzaida Garcia were wed Saturday at San Carlos Catholic Church in the western town of Aguadilla, Delgado's birthplace, El Nuevo Dia newspaper reported. The Florida Marlins traded Delgado to the Mets last month for first baseman Mike Jacobs and two minor leaguers. — southflorida.com

ScarletKnight41 Dec 06 2005 02:42 PM

Mazel Tov to Carlos and Betzaida. May they have many years of happiness together!

metirish Dec 06 2005 02:45 PM

here's a picture.....

Edgy DC Dec 06 2005 02:51 PM

Surely they could have given us a bigger snap.

metirish Dec 06 2005 02:52 PM

Yeah that's from the Daily News Sunday which had a two page story and bigger pictures, I swear in the larger version of that pic you can see Robbie Alomar looking on.

OlerudOwned Dec 06 2005 03:42 PM

metirish wrote: Yeah that's from the Daily News Sunday which had a two page story and bigger pictures, I swear in the larger version of that pic you can see Robbie Alomar looking on. Kind of odd. Delgado's 1st full season was 1996. Alomar left Toronto after '95 to go to Baltimore.

Edgy DC Dec 06 2005 03:47 PM

Puerto Rican legends stick together.

OlerudOwned Dec 06 2005 04:07 PM

Edgy DC wrote: Puerto Rican legends stick together. But do they use street spanish?