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Now I know you guys hate Rumors

Mark Healey Dec 01 2005 11:39 PM

but you might like this: http://www.gothambaseball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1650 Please discuss...:-)

Frayed Knot Dec 01 2005 11:51 PM

Discuss what, that some of the stuff being talked about may actually occur while other stuff won't? hmmm ... I agree!

metirish Dec 02 2005 12:02 AM

The fact that the Mets want Zito is hardly news, and nothing to be keeping quite about, a question, who are you quoting in this?... things like.... ]As for Ramirez, putting the 2004 World Series MVP in a lineup with Carlos Delgado, Carlos Beltran and David Wright in the middle of it, "makes a good offense a great offense." and if everyone in baseball thinks Zito will go to the Mets next year anyway why the hell would anyone let alone Omar trade the players you named in the article for him this year....if another team beats that this off-season then good for them....I would shoot Omar if he ddi that trade....

Nymr83 Dec 02 2005 01:42 AM Re: Now I know you guys hate Rumors

We don't hate rumors, we just don't like people claiming sources that they refuse to prove they have. i'm all for idle trade speculations as long as it is framed as such- a fan's opinion of what should/could happen. as for the article linked above, we've been over Manny ad nauseum around here and i see no reason to even talk about it again unless he actually shows up at a Shea press conference.

Elster88 Dec 02 2005 02:04 AM

]Those close to Minaya say he's furious that for ther second time in the last six months, the Red Sox are "playing games." Sources say Minaya is convinced the Angels are not the slightest bit interested in Ramirez, that Boston knows this, and a trade of Ramirez to the Mets is inevitable. Others sources are saying the Phillies -- via the Abreu-Ramirez "trade talks" -- were more than happy to take part in what some Mets insiders are calling a "game of chicken". "(Minaya's) not buying", and his apparent refusal to counter-offer the Phillies' "offer" for Ramirez today may have worked. We'll know in a few days. GB is also hearing that the Benson-Julio deal is far from being completed, and maybe, just maybe, Minaya playing a little game of three-card monty of his own .... That's why, apparently, they are refusing to give the Mets the money that would seal the deal. Minaya knows this, but baseball sources say "(Omar's) holding all the cards". GB has learned that Minaya doesn't really want to deal Milledge to Boston, because he wants to have his most significant chip to get the player he desires almost as much as Ramirez. I'm going to have trouble taking your righteous indignation seriously when I bring up how the "anonymous source" may just be a way for columnists to put attention-grabbing rumors into their columns. What's the record for most anonymous sources quoted in an 800 word column? ]As for Ramirez, putting the 2004 World Series MVP in a lineup with Carlos Delgado, Carlos Beltran and David Wright in the middle of it, "makes a good offense a great offense." Every GM in baseball agrees. You think so, doctor?

smg58 Dec 02 2005 02:29 AM

Hate Rumours? Name me a better Fleetwood Mac album.

Johnny Dickshot Dec 02 2005 07:24 AM

Loving you Is it the right thing to do? How can I ever change things That I feel? If I could Maybe I'd give you my world How can I When you won't take it from me? You can go your own way Go your own way You can call it Another lonely day You can go your own way Go your own way Tell me why Everything turned around Packing up Shacking up is all you wanna do If I could Baby, I'd give you my world Open up Everything's waiting for you You can go your own way Go your own way You can call it Another lonely day You can go your own way Go your own way ---- Instrumental Interlude ---- You can go your own way Go your own way You can call it Another lonely day You can go your own way Go your own way You can call it Another lonely day

MFS62 Dec 02 2005 07:48 AM

This is scary: "...that Minaya doesn't really want to deal Milledge to Boston, because he wants to have his most significant chip to get the player he desires almost as much as Ramirez." So, it doesn't mean he won't trade Millege. It means he won't trade Millege for Manny, but would trade him for someone else. I wonder who that other player is? Any guesses? I hope they don't mean Soriano. Later

Yancy Street Gang Dec 02 2005 08:01 AM

My guess is that it probably is Soriano that they're referring to.

seawolf17 Dec 02 2005 08:18 AM

No, they're referring to Barry Zito. Read the column; it's the very next line.

Rotblatt Dec 02 2005 10:19 AM

Having just read a ton of rumor mill articles in various rags, I actually found this one rather refreshing, although the last few paragraphs turned me off a bit. The anonymous source listings are no different from the other papers, but this one's a little more interesting--and juicy, with the whole "Omar's pissed off" thing. Personally, I'd be livid if we traded Floyd, Trachsel & Milledge for Zito, but not a lot more so than if we traded Floyd, Heilman & MIlledge for Manny . . .

Centerfield Dec 02 2005 11:44 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 02 2005 11:53 AM

I like rumors. I don't like when rumors are reported as facts or relied upon later for criticism along the lines of "Well we could have had [big star] for Heilman last winter and we didn't pull the trigger!"

sharpie Dec 02 2005 11:50 AM

[big star] didn't want to come to New York, anyway, so f**k him.

Mark Healey Dec 02 2005 06:50 PM Re: Now I know you guys hate Rumors

] we just don't like people claiming sources that they refuse to prove they have. I'll remember that when I'm at the winter meetings on Monday, Mr. Message Board Poster that uses an Internet Alias. I think my record of a decade as a journalist is a pretty good one.

Mark Healey Dec 02 2005 06:52 PM

Rotblatt wrote: Having just read a ton of rumor mill articles in various rags, I actually found this one rather refreshing, although the last few paragraphs turned me off a bit. The anonymous source listings are no different from the other papers, but this one's a little more interesting--and juicy, with the whole "Omar's pissed off" thing. Personally, I'd be livid if we traded Floyd, Trachsel & Milledge for Zito, but not a lot more so than if we traded Floyd, Heilman & MIlledge for Manny . . . Thanks, I appreciate it. It's all about letting the readers know what people are thinking, nothing more.

Nymr83 Dec 02 2005 07:10 PM Re: Now I know you guys hate Rumors

Mark Healey wrote: I'll remember that when I'm at the winter meetings on Monday, Mr. Message Board Poster that uses an Internet Alias. I think my record of a decade as a journalist is a pretty good one. ok Mr. "Journalist" who makes up his "sources" and can't show otherwise. your record? what record? i can make up rumors every week for a year and be in the same spot you're in.

KC Dec 02 2005 07:47 PM

Oh come on Mark, let's cut the crap. You started a thread with a teaser thing about not liking rumors. You get to link your column to a couple of dozen message board posters who don't work in your field. You sprinkle the said column with a bunch of rumors and flimsy backup. You ask the message board posters to discuss. You get discussion. You don't like the dis- cussion so as an ego-defense mechanism you remind us that you get to go the winter meetings while us schmucky message board posters you invited to discuss your flimsy column have to go to work in their boring message board visiting inducing jobs. Have a nice trip, rub some elbows for us. I think as a forum, we've been pretty darn hospitable to you and your other writers. Sure there is some wise cracking and stuff, but this is a message board and we don't need to be reminded of it by a low tier sports columnist who just happens to have a press pass.

seawolf17 Dec 02 2005 08:03 PM

Mark Healey Dec 02 2005 08:07 PM

="KC"]Oh come on Mark, let's cut the crap. You started a thread with a teaser thing about not liking rumors. You get to link your column to a couple of dozen message board posters who don't work in your field. You sprinkle the said column with a bunch of rumors and flimsy backup. You ask the message board posters to discuss. You get discussion. You don't like the dis- cussion so as an ego-defense mechanism you remind us that you get to go the winter meetings while us schmucky message board posters you invited to discuss your flimsy column have to go to work in their boring message board visiting inducing jobs. Have a nice trip, rub some elbows for us. I think as a forum, we've been pretty darn hospitable to you and your other writers. Sure there is some wise cracking and stuff, but this is a message board and we don't need to be reminded of it by a low tier sports columnist who just happens to have a press pass. Accusing a person of making up sources isn't discussion, it's a personal attack and insulting. I was speaking to him and him alone. Unless of course you agree with him as far as his "charges". When I spend three hours on the phoine speaking with dozens of people to write a column, I get annoyed when I being accused of "making it up" by a guy who uses an alias. . ]a low tier sports columnist who just happens to have a press pass That's not discussion either.

martin Dec 02 2005 08:27 PM

you cant question a guy who spends 3 hours on a phone with people.

Nymr83 Dec 02 2005 08:29 PM

name your sources or keep expecting me to call you out on it. you aren't Peter Gammons or even Buster Olney, i have no reason to believe anything you tell me to be more than your own speculation.

Yancy Street Gang Dec 02 2005 08:33 PM

Now let's be fair here. If he starts naming his sources, he won't get as much information as he would otherwise. Yes, you may trust Peter Gammons more because he has a longer track record, but if Gammons named all of his sources when he was less famous, he wouldn't have gotten to where he is today. Sometimes the only way a reporter can get information is if it's off the record, or if he promises not to quote his source. It's not only Mark Healy who plays it that way, it's everybody.

KC Dec 02 2005 09:17 PM

I certainly don't expect him to name names to prove anything to a bunch of schmucky message board posters. Mark, this is a small group of fans. We're familiar with each other and for the most part it's pretty friendly. CF is a pillar of this group, he's not some shark hiding behind an alias out to bite the ass of anyone who strays into the pool with an opinion. Remember, it's a message board - and no one is throwing out "charges, attacking, or insulting" and I'm sorry you're "annoyed". (Jeez, he's like Ms. Met with credentials and a magazine)

Zvon Dec 02 2005 09:53 PM

Rumour, inuendo, speculation, fact or fiction......it dont matter to me. As long as writers are writing about my Mets. You read stuff, you process it, you form your own conclusions. Whats the winter for baseball wise if not for speculation until the facts come in? The Mets should hold on to Lastings Milledge, at least until we see if Beltran can live up to his potential in NYC, and also see if Floyd can come close to matching his '05 numbers. Im more worried about the latter. From all I read about Milledge, he'd be a nice addition to Reyes and Wright as a future homegrown Met. Ramirez would be nice and I wouldnt mind the Mets getting him, but he's a distracting ballplayer and Victor Diaz and/or Xavier Nady will be fine in right (if Beltran can post all-star type numbers). Ramirez playing right? To me thats a lil scary. Fun to watch, but Id rather see Diaz do his little circle around the ball dance. He usually catches it and has an okay arm.(I know little about Nady) Manny would never have had as many assists if he wasnt playing the green monster and people ran on him hoping his head was where it sometimes is, when he's on the field. Personally, if the Mets did get Ramirez, Id rather see him in left and Floyd in right. But I dont think we need him. We need to settle the catching situation, and it will be settled before long. We need a healthy 30 plus game starting Benson or someone in that slot who can give us that. We need the same from Trachsel, a veteran workhorse who I like, but Id rather see him moved before Benson this winter. We need afew more dependable middle relief arms, but who doesnt. We need afew bench players like the departing Marlon Anderson who can step in and step up when the need be. We need to either give Kaz Matsui another chance, or fill that gap. I hope he's somewhere workin on turning the double play right now. In the infield he's the weakest link. Id rather give Matsui the shot than see Cairo out there anymore on a regular basis. But an upgrade at 2nd would be nice given the right deal. Im sure I can think of afew more things we need. We do need Beltran to play up to his potential, as I said earlier. I cant stress that enough. Delgado's bat should take some pressure off him. I hope so. But we don't need Manny. We could use him and Id love it if they did get him. But I wont be bitchin if they dont. The more I read about Omar Minaya, the more Im thrilled he's the Mets GM. And I do mean thrilled. Hes a smart and savy baseball man. He's almost always available for comment, not off on some 3 week sea cruise. He's aware that he may be being played right now in the Manny situation, and lets face it, thats something GMs do at times, among their other skills. Play the market. The baseball market. Keep writing Mark, and as long as its about the New York Mets, Ill read it and enjoy.

Johnny Dickshot Dec 02 2005 10:14 PM

Sweet wonderful you, You make me happy with the things you do, Oh, can it be so, This feeling follows me wherever I go. I never did believe in miracles, But I've a feeling it's time to try. I never did believe in the ways of magic, But I'm beginning to wonder why. Don't, don't break the spell, It would be different and you know it will, You, you make lovin' fun, And I don't have to tell you you're the only one. You, you make lovin' fun You, you make lovin' fun

Nymr83 Dec 02 2005 10:25 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: Now let's be fair here. If he starts naming his sources, he won't get as much information as he would otherwise. Yes, you may trust Peter Gammons more because he has a longer track record, but if Gammons named all of his sources when he was less famous, he wouldn't have gotten to where he is today. Sometimes the only way a reporter can get information is if it's off the record, or if he promises not to quote his source. It's not only Mark Healy who plays it that way, it's everybody. thats the thing though, i have no reason to believe he HAS any information that the public doesn't. Anyone who would talk to a no-name internet sports writer has probably blabbed to the public already. Thanks to the wonders of the internet, anyone can start a website, call themself a journalist, invent X number of rumors, and pat themself on the back when 1 out of X comes true and the others turn out to have never even been discussed. I have no reason to believe that this Healey guy has done anyhing but that.

Mark Healey Dec 02 2005 10:36 PM

no one is throwing out "charges, attacking, or insulting" and I'm sorry you're "annoyed". Saying that I make up my sources isn't a personal attack? I sure as hell do.

Mark Healey Dec 02 2005 10:42 PM

]thats the thing though, i have no reason to believe he HAS any information that the public doesn't. Anyone who would talk to a no-name internet sports writer has probably blabbed to the public already. Thanks to the wonders of the internet, anyone can start a website, call themself a journalist, invent X number of rumors, and pat themself on the back when 1 out of X comes true and the others turn out to have never even been discussed. I have no reason to believe that this Healey guy has done anyhing but that. I have been a writer for the last 10 years. This is part of my bio, available at the website, had you bothered to look. After a full-time internship at WFAN 660-AM, Mark began his radio career in earnest, working first as a AM producer, then as an AM reporter, then as an anchorman at WSTC-AM in Stamford, CT. He later was hired by WRKL-AM in Rockland Country, NY as the News Director/Evening News. Then, fate intervened, as Mark was offered a position at AP Sports, where's he been since 1998. Since then, Mark has also taken on several other assignments, such as serving as the beat reporter for the Brooklyn Cyclones, beginning with the club's first-ever season in 2001. He later became a contributing writer at Mets Inside Pitch, before leaving this past winter to begin publishing his column "Going Nine." Just a few months later, with GN in tow, his partnership with Mike McGann began, and their combined vision has produced Gotham Baseball. I don't have to make up anything, as through years of covering the Mets organziation from the lowest level of the minor leagues, and working for the largest news agency in the world, I've developed quite a few contacts. That should answer your questions. I apologize to the rest of the board if I in any way insulted them, it was not my intention.

metirish Dec 02 2005 10:46 PM

Nice bio, did you get to cover Kazmir when he was in Brooklyn?

Mark Healey Dec 02 2005 10:59 PM

metirish wrote: Nice bio, did you get to cover Kazmir when he was in Brooklyn? I did...great kid and great stuff.

Johnny Dickshot Dec 02 2005 11:24 PM

Not for nothin Mark, but couldn't help but notice your boss took more cheap shots at Marty Noble this week (you know, sorta like the kind you fired at the Phoenix writers in your Backman exclusive) than anything you've gotten here in this thread. One trouble with using annonymous sources almost exclusively is that when they steer you wrong (see: RICK PETERSON TO BE FIRED, by Mark Healey) readers never know whether your mystery liar is continuing to use you as a mouthpiece and your credibility, despite how many times you link to a bio mentioning a "real" employer whose standards these websclusives could never meet, is damaged.

Mark Healey Dec 03 2005 12:03 AM

]Not for nothin Mark, but couldn't help but notice your boss took more cheap shots at Marty Noble this week (you know, sorta like the kind you fired at the Phoenix writers in your Backman exclusive) than anything you've gotten here in this thread. Mike's my partner, not my boss. ]One trouble with using annonymous sources almost exclusively is that when they steer you wrong (see: RICK PETERSON TO BE FIRED, by Mark Healey) readers never know whether your mystery liar is continuing to use you as a mouthpiece and your credibility, despite how many times you link to a bio mentioning a "real" employer whose standards these websclusives could never meet, is damaged.

The headline was Peterson a Goner? And since both The NYDN and Newsday wrote about the internal strife in the Mets FO concerning Peterson just days later, I'd say it was right on.

the New York Mets may be planning to bid farewell to pitching guru Rick Peterson at the end of the season.

Here's the follow-up:

http://www.gothambaseball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1138

]On Sunday, the NY Daily News’ national baseball columnist Bill Madden wrote that there is "growing animosity toward (Mets manager Willie Randolph’s) pitching coach, Rick Peterson, by members of (Mets GM Omar) Minaya's high command".

KC Dec 03 2005 08:46 AM

JD:>>>Not for nothin Mark, but couldn't help but notice your boss took more cheap shots at Marty Noble this week (you know, sorta like the kind you fired at the Phoenix writers in your Backman exclusive) than anything you've gotten here in this thread.<<< MH:>>>Mike's my partner, not my boss.<<< Address the cheap shots at Noble or the Phoenix writers vs. a poster on a message board questioning your column's sources or just move on. When all these links to your site started to appear I originally thought they should really be in the member promotion forum but didn't move them be- cause you're Mets' fans. The way you let your sensitive ego get in the way the second an internet poster says something a little brusque to you, you kind of demonstrate (to me, at least) that this is all about promoting you and your stuff - and you're not really interested in being friends with us.

Elster88 Dec 03 2005 11:24 AM

Not to pile on, but I thought you had agreed to keep all your links in one thread. That went away pretty quickly too.

Mark Healey Dec 03 2005 04:28 PM

Elster88 wrote: Not to pile on, but I thought you had agreed to keep all your links in one thread. That went away pretty quickly too. Sorry about that, I thought the single thread idea was for Going Nine, not for any Gotham Baseball story. Won't happen again.

Elster88 Dec 03 2005 04:39 PM

Oh. Well I thought they were the same thing. Maybe I should be the one apologizing. Ahhh, I won't get involved. You all decide.

Mark Healey Dec 03 2005 04:44 PM

]Address the cheap shots at Noble or the Phoenix writers vs. a poster on a message board questioning your column's sources or just move on. Apples and Oranges. In both instances the writers in question took facts, compared it to the stories said person served to the public, and called said writers to task. It's a little different. If you don't understand the difference, I can't help you. Also, you didn't question, you said they were "made up", which is a gig difference. ]When all these links to your site started to appear I originally thought they should really be in the member promotion forum but didn't move them be-cause you're Mets' fans. The way you let your sensitive ego get in the way the second an internet poster says something a little brusque to you, you kind of demonstrate (to me, at least) that this is all about promoting you and your stuff - and you're not really interested in being friends with us. That's your opinion. Since my site is free, and I get no more than 20 or so reads on GB a week from here, there's no reason for me to "promote" my site here. I've stayed and tried to make nice becausae I have the utmost respect for Mr. Prince. As fairly new person, I wasn't aware of any rules or guidelines regarding where posts should go. Had Mod or Webmaster had PM'd me and asked me to do so, I gladly would have. Edgy did tell me once to post my stories in the Baseball Forum, so I did. It's pretty simple. You, Dickshoit and a few others have had a stick up their ass about me and GB since I showed up, so I am certain "being friends" is something you could care less about. So please spare me. I don't know eher any of you are from, but I'm from E39th Street in Flatbush, so when somebody fires across my bow, I get in their face (verbally, I mean) and defend myself, my site and my colleagues. If Edgy wants me to leave, I'll leave. But I'm not going to leave in a huff because there's one or two of you that are clearly jerking my chain.

heep Dec 03 2005 04:54 PM

Ouch.

KC Dec 03 2005 04:57 PM

I do bring out the fire in people sometimes. Not sure why. Edgy's not my boss, we're partners lolololol.

G-Fafif Dec 03 2005 05:04 PM

Mark Healey wrote: I've stayed and tried to make nice because I have the utmost respect for Mr. Prince. I feel like Bill Clinton at the dedication of his library in November 2004 when he asked, "Am I the only person in America who likes both George Bush and John Kerry?" I'm down with Mark and I dig you guys. All questions about stories and motives are legitimate -- that's the beauty of the interactive life. But Mark is not making up stuff. He's a hard-working baseball journalist who shares a lot more a lot quicker than most do. And CPF is not a rumble. It's intelligent and generally friendly baseball talk, the only such place I've wandered to when I've wandered from my cozy blog nook. Bill Clinton tried to make peace in the Middle East. He didn't get it done. You guys can keep going at it if you want. But since my name was invoked, I just wanted to say that. And Let's Go Mets.

Johnny Dickshot Dec 03 2005 05:21 PM

Mark Healey wrote: Apples and Oranges. In both instances the writers in question took facts, compared it to the stories said person served to the public, and called said writers to task. It's a little different. If you don't understand the difference, I can't help you. Also, you didn't question, you said they were "made up", which is a gig difference. That's not what happened. You suggested the Phoenix writer penned a peice damaging to Backman not because it was news but because the writer had a rooting stake in who was named manager. Even if that was dead-on, you know and I know that's a more serious charge than a cynical reader who won't buy what you write when it comes without attribution. Now, if you've chosen to run that risk with practically everything you write you cannot be surprised this kind of criticism comes your way. Saying that Bill Madden does the same thing doesn't change that either, and you know that too. And your boyfriend (sorry, cheap shot -- partner), whose published work we've gone over here already ought to provide him the world's smallest podium from which to lecture journalism, leaped from exposing an error in Noble's peice to the conclusion that he'd done so because he'd become a tool of Met management and an embarrassment to his colleagues at MLB.com. That's the same thing?

Mark Healey Dec 03 2005 06:55 PM

G-Fafif wrote: ="Mark Healey"]I've stayed and tried to make nice because I have the utmost respect for Mr. Prince. I feel like Bill Clinton at the dedication of his library in November 2004 when he asked, "Am I the only person in America who likes both George Bush and John Kerry?" I'm down with Mark and I dig you guys. All questions about stories and motives are legitimate -- that's the beauty of the interactive life. But Mark is not making up stuff. He's a hard-working baseball journalist who shares a lot more a lot quicker than most do. And CPF is not a rumble. It's intelligent and generally friendly baseball talk, the only such place I've wandered to when I've wandered from my cozy blog nook. Bill Clinton tried to make peace in the Middle East. He didn't get it done. You guys can keep going at it if you want. But since my name was invoked, I just wanted to say that. And Let's Go Mets. How can I argue with that? Right back atcha' pal...

KC Dec 03 2005 07:07 PM

You've ignored a lot here.

Mark Healey Dec 03 2005 07:14 PM

]That's not what happened. You suggested the Phoenix writer penned a peice damaging to Backman not because it was news but because the writer had a rooting stake in who was named manager. Even if that was dead-on, you know and I know that's a more serious charge than a cynical reader who won't buy what you write when it comes without attribution. I simply took the words he chose in his story, presented the facts of the case, and made my judgement call based on facts. Now, if you've chosen to run that risk with practically everything you write you cannot be surprised this kind of criticism comes your way. Saying that Bill Madden does the same thing doesn't change that either, and you know that too. You obviously don't read everything I write. If you did, you wouldn't make that statement. ]And your boyfriend (sorry, cheap shot -- partner), whose published work we've gone over here already ought to provide him the world's smallest podium from which to lecture journalism, leaped from exposing an error in Noble's peice to the conclusion that he'd done so because he'd become a tool of Met management and an embarrassment to his colleagues at MLB.com. That's the same thing? I'd answer this withe the spirit with which it was asked, but I just said I'd be good. A writer who has worked the same room with another writer is far more qualified to criticize him. Many, if not all, choose not to. Mike knew what price he would pay for writing what he wrote and chose to take it. At at the every least, he out his name to it, which is far more than I can say for others in this business. Did it ever occur to you that he did so for the benefit of the reader? I fully believe that he did.

Edgy DC Dec 03 2005 07:59 PM

]I'm from E39th Street in Flatbush, so when somebody fires across my bow, I get in their face (verbally, I mean) and defend myself, my site and my colleagues. Paulie, is that you? Old joke, Mark, and not at your expense.

Mark Healey Dec 03 2005 08:24 PM

Edgy DC wrote: ]I'm from E39th Street in Flatbush, so when somebody fires across my bow, I get in their face (verbally, I mean) and defend myself, my site and my colleagues. Paulie, is that you? Old joke, Mark, and not at your expense. lol...

martin Dec 03 2005 09:54 PM

seriously though, do yall keep it real in your hood? i cant take a journalist seriously unless they get in people's faces. cmon man, are you kidding?

Mark Healey Dec 03 2005 10:11 PM

martin wrote: seriously though, do yall keep it real in your hood? i cant take a journalist seriously unless they get in people's faces. cmon man, are you kidding? Perhaps I should act/react like many of my colleagues, who would never in a million years, use their real names or debate with their own readers in a public forum. All I am trying to do is explain why I defend myself and/or my staff and my site so vehemently. Oh and if you want to make fun of my "tough guy" act, please make it relevant. I have never said Y'all...keeping it real...or hood (well, maybe on a sweatshirt)., in my life.

martin Dec 03 2005 10:20 PM

Mark Healey wrote: ="martin"]seriously though, do yall keep it real in your hood? i cant take a journalist seriously unless they get in people's faces. cmon man, are you kidding? Perhaps I should act/react like many of my colleagues, who would never in a million years, use their real names or debate with their own readers in a public forum. All I am trying to do is explain why I defend myself and/or my staff and my site so vehemently. Oh and if you want to make fun of my "tough guy" act, please make it relevant. I have never said Y'all...keeping it real...or hood (well, maybe on a sweatshirt)., in my life. it seems to be that more than debating readers, you are recruiting them, which you need to do because your rumors are as entertaining as dice rolls. maybe its just me, but all your talk here makes me take you less seriously. seems like just writing a good column and having your rumors turn out true would be enough.

Johnny Dickshot Dec 04 2005 10:17 AM

Mark Healey wrote: I simply took the words he chose in his story, presented the facts of the case, and made my judgement call based on facts. The implication being you'd advocate having sat on the information and said nothing had he liked Backman, correct? ]A writer who has worked the same room with another writer is far more qualified to criticize him. Many, if not all, choose not to. My bad. I didn't realize Marty Noble worked for a home electronics trade publication. ]Mike knew what price he would pay for writing what he wrote and chose to take it. At at the every least, he out his name to it, which is far more than I can say for others in this business. So he's unprofessional AND has poor judgement. Got it. ]Did it ever occur to you that he did so for the benefit of the reader? I fully believe that he did. Pointing out an errors in another publication is fine, and right (we have that much in common). Dropping a safe on a guy the way he did is unprofessional and slanderous and you know it. My opinion? I think McGann wrote what he did for the benefit of himself. Without claiming to know all the politics of what goes on the beat I understand that Noble is unpopular among his colleagues. Klapisch and Harper condemned him in WORST TEAM for breaking from the "pack" in pursuit of one-on-ones (as if hustling were a crime) and I guy I know in the biz once described him to me as "a pain in the ass." And I know that competitors on the beat frequently bury sharp criticisms of one another in their copy. On the other hand, he didn't spend what -- 30 years? -- on the beat as a "tool of management" steering readers wrong, as someone who'd read that reckless column might conclude. My guess is that McGann's remarks amount to a ham-handed attempt to ingratiate himself with others on the beat and appear "insidery" to readers by publishing that which other's professionalism, ethics and/or editors prevent them from saying. But the "service to the reader" part ends when he points out the errors in the column. The rest is a show of petty and unfair character assassination and looks positively ugly on your publication. Why not just out-write the guy and let the work speak for itself?

KC Dec 04 2005 11:00 AM

>>>I'm from E39th Street in Flatbush, so when somebody fires across my bow, I get in their face<<< I was conceived in that neighborhood. I've tried to use it as an excuse for being an ass on the internet but have failed every time. I find it hard to believe that you've taken all this as seriously as you acted, Mark. Getting old mofo jokes and stuff, one would think your skin would be a little thicker. (note to self: never really piss off Dickshot)

Johnny Dickshot Dec 04 2005 11:43 AM

I'm not pissed off! (or have a stick in my ass). I was only pointing out that while Mark is quick to defend himself against those questioning his integrity here, he and his partner have dished out even cheaper shots in their own work.

KC Dec 04 2005 11:51 AM

I hear ya, compadre.

ScarletKnight41 Dec 04 2005 12:20 PM

I think the problem boils down to the fact that Mark invites us to discuss his articles, but doesn't like it when people disagree with them or wish to debate his points. You can't expect this crew not to pipe up when we have issues with something. And Kase may have a point - if Mark's primary goal is just to promote his website, then perhaps the Member Promotion forum is more appropriate for his posts. OTOH, if he really wants us to think about the articles and discuss them, then this is the proper subforum, but he has to be prepared for a full range of reactions to them.

Elster88 Dec 04 2005 12:35 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: I was only pointing out that while Mark is quick to defend himself against those questioning his integrity here, he and his partner have dished out even cheaper shots in their own work.

Elster88 Dec 05 2005 02:06 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: I was only pointing out that while Mark is quick to defend himself against those questioning his integrity here, he and his partner have dished out even cheaper shots in their own work. I'm hoping he'll comment on this.

Centerfield Dec 05 2005 02:36 PM

KC wrote: CF is a pillar of this group, he's not some shark hiding behind an alias out to bite the ass of anyone who strays into the pool with an opinion. I'm a pillar. Cool. Thanks KC, but for what it's worth, that wasn't me arguing with Mark.

KC Dec 05 2005 03:11 PM

I find I confuse easier and easier as I slip into senilitiy.

Edgy DC Dec 07 2005 12:15 PM

Mark speaks: http://www.gothambaseball.com/audio/livefromdallas.mp3 More: http://www.gothambaseball.com/audio/LiveFromdallas2.mp3 Not for dialup connections.

Elster88 Dec 11 2005 08:31 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: I was only pointing out that while Mark is quick to defend himself against those questioning his integrity here, he and his partner have dished out even cheaper shots in their own work. Any comments?

Nymr83 Dec 11 2005 10:22 PM

you say that i'm the one who has personal problems with him, yet you've re-quoted that question 3 or 4 times now....

Elster88 Dec 11 2005 10:53 PM

*sigh* Asking for a response, even as persistently as I do, is NOT the same as saying he's a fraud of a writer or whatever it is you say. I have no personal problems with him, and I seriously doubt that I ever will. I only disagree vehemently with some of the things he says, and hope he'll stand up for what he is saying by responding to a very fair yet difficult question. I think the difference between that and "personal problems" is obvious. I also think that a discussion of who has a problem with who is stupid.

Mark Healey Dec 11 2005 11:43 PM

IMO, I'm confident that my analysis and commentary concering the Backman case was far from a cheap shot. They chose to portray Backman's problems with a very loose translation of the facts. I pointed that out, and also presented what I -- in my educated opinion on that particular subject -- believe to be one of the reasons Backman was fired. The individuals who constantly question the validity of my stories are accusing me of lying. There's a difference between the two, especially when the accusers here are anonymous. I put my name to what I write. As to Mike, if he chooses to defend himself here, fine. He's a grown up , he can defend himself. For the record, I don't think I ever have a problem with people disagreeing with anything I write. It's when it escalates into personal attacks that draws my ire. As far as I'm concerned, Greg's thread is where I'll post from now on, thanks.

MFS62 Dec 14 2005 11:53 AM

]From the Bergen Record: THIS AND THAT: The Mets and Manny (Part Three). According to a major league executive, the Mets made a strong effort to trade Kris Benson to the Rangers recently, hoping to acquire starter Juan Dominguez and outfielder Laynce Nix and then package them with Carlos Beltran in exchange for Manny Ramirez. The deal with Texas dissolved, however, and Ramirez is no longer considered a front-burner issue at Shea. Beltran for Manny has resurfaced? Oh well. Later