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Dems in 2008: Who d'ya Like?

TheOldMole Nov 21 2005 12:20 PM

The Daily Kos straw poll: If the 2008 presidential primary were held today, who would you vote for? Bayh 47 votes - 1 % Biden 58 votes - 1 % Clark 935 votes - 27 % Clinton 203 votes - 5 % Edwards 432 votes - 12 % Feingold 642 votes - 18 % Kerry 81 votes - 2 % Richardson 155 votes - 4 % Vilsack 14 votes - 0 % Warner 556 votes - 16 % Other 91 votes - 2 % No frickin' clue 247 votes - 7 %

sharpie Nov 21 2005 12:25 PM

How'd Wes Clark get so many votes?

seawolf17 Nov 21 2005 12:47 PM

Actually, those people thought they were voting for Dick Clark. He was so good on the "Pyramid."

sharpie Nov 21 2005 01:01 PM

Biden, I believe, is the only one who has more or less announced.

metirish Nov 21 2005 01:02 PM

That looks to me like a weak field, I'd be curious to see how Barak Obama did.

Elster88 Nov 21 2005 01:04 PM

If Hilary ever got nominated I imagine every woman in America would vote for her, and the charge would be led by Oprah and the women on the View. Actually I would vote for her over a clown like Bush.

metirish Nov 21 2005 01:07 PM

Oh I bet plenty of women despise Clinton, queation, lets say she wins the job, could she have Bill as Vice President?

seawolf17 Nov 21 2005 01:08 PM

It's sexist and ignorant to assume that a female candidate -- Hillary or otherwise -- would bring out women in droves and win by a landslide. If it were that easy, it would have happened already.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 21 2005 01:09 PM

Elster88 wrote: If Hilary ever got nominated I imagine every woman in America would vote for her, and the charge would be led by Oprah and the women on the View. Actually I would vote for her over a clown like Bush. I know of a few women who despise Hillary. But there are probably also a lot of women who don't usually vote who would turn out for Hillary. I'm surprised by those numbers. I would have thought that Hillary would be higher, and I wouldn't have guessed the 27% for Clark. And those 2 per cent who want John Kerry again must be true diehards. Bill Richardson is interesting. I haven't watched him closely, but from what I know of him I think I'd like to see him take a run at it.

Elster88 Nov 21 2005 01:13 PM

seawolf17 wrote: It's sexist and ignorant to assume that a female candidate -- Hillary or otherwise -- would bring out women in droves and win by a landslide. If it were that easy, it would have happened already. No it's not sexist or ignorant. Actually it's the exact opposite of sexist, if you'll read on. I feel that most women, regardless of their feelings for Hilary, would see it as a necessary step towards actual equality between men and women. And I think they would be right. And I think it would happen.

sharpie Nov 21 2005 01:14 PM

One of Kerry's many mistakes in the '04 campaign was the choice of Edwards over Richardson, a Hispanic (with a non-Hispanic name) who might've swung New Mexico and maybe Arizona Kerry's way. A southern strategy was ludicrous and Edwards brought nothing to the ticket.

seawolf17 Nov 21 2005 01:14 PM

Why did Geraldine Ferraro get whomped in '84? There's more to a successful race than having the correct body parts.

Elster88 Nov 21 2005 01:15 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: But there are probably also a lot of women who don't usually vote who would turn out for Hillary. This is my thought, too. I think anyone who feels otherwise isn't thinking straight. But that's just me.

Elster88 Nov 21 2005 01:15 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 21 2005 01:19 PM

seawolf17 wrote: Why did Geraldine Ferraro get whomped in '84? I didn't realize she was the one who was the Democratic party nominee and lost to Reagan in 84. My apologies.

sharpie Nov 21 2005 01:17 PM

Ferraro smacked of desperation. If Hillary got the nomination she would get it the hard way, by winning primaries.

metirish Nov 21 2005 01:20 PM

I really don't think Hillary would win in 08, she is a very divisive person,Republicans would rip her apart in the media, the Clinton name is hated as much as loved in politics.I consider myself a liberal person and I don't like Hillary really.

KC Nov 21 2005 01:25 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 21 2005 01:28 PM

If it starts to shape up that Hillary has a chance of really becoming President, I'd leave my Independent status and become a Dem so I can vote against her in the primary.

Johnny Dickshot Nov 21 2005 01:27 PM

I met Evan Bayh once. He had charisma oozing out of his butt and seems "conservative" enough for a Dem to garner $upport from big biz. Hardline libs might have an issue with him.

Elster88 Nov 21 2005 01:27 PM

Well, maybe I am being ignorant if Hilary does tends to give so many people a bad taste, but I don't think I was being sexist. I think it would take a special kind of hate to keep a woman from getting the overwhelming majority of the vote from other women. I didn't realize Hilary inspired that.

seawolf17 Nov 21 2005 01:29 PM

You would think Evan Bayh would have dropped the mystery "h" when he came over here from the Japanese Baseball League. Elster, I don't mean to attack you. I just think Hillary's not the slam-dunk some folks seem to think she is.

Elster88 Nov 21 2005 01:30 PM

seawolf17 wrote: You would think Evan Bayh would have dropped the mystery "h" when he came over here from the Japanese Baseball League. Elster, I don't mean to attack you. I just think Hillary's not the slam-dunk some folks seem to think she is. I didn't think it was an attack. I like the back and forth. Good to have something to talk about besides hot stove and how bad the Knicks and Jets are.

Edgy DC Nov 21 2005 01:30 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 21 2005 01:35 PM

I think it would take a special kind of hate for 100% of women to vote for somebody based on their gender alone. Would you be so certain of 100% female support if, say, Elizabeth Dole was nominated? Carol Alt? Sista Soljah?

Elster88 Nov 21 2005 01:32 PM

You are talking to someone who considered writing in Mike Piazza in '04, so take my opinions with a pound of salt. But if a woman, any woman, was popular enough to win the nomination of one of the two major parties, as I stipulated in my first post, then yes, I think she would win the election in a walk.

metirish Nov 21 2005 01:36 PM

No way she wins in a walk, infact I think she would inspire the Republican base to vote...here's a strong list of Republican candidates... http://www.politics1.com/p2008-gop.htm

KC Nov 21 2005 01:37 PM

Show me some love in 2008!

Edgy DC Nov 21 2005 01:42 PM

That Tom Tancredo sounds like he's got a Hell of a platform, huh?

metirish Nov 21 2005 01:46 PM

Yeah really, imagine if he was a Congressman from a border state,he's national campaign is being directed by Bay Buchanan ,sister of Pat.

KC Nov 21 2005 01:48 PM

Tancredo is a fucking nut job, it amazes me that people like that can get elected into offices as high up as congressman.

sharpie Nov 21 2005 02:00 PM

Brownback also a nutjob. I think we see McCain vs. Allen. Then again, 2008 is very far down the road.

Valadius Nov 21 2005 02:02 PM

Mark Warner has my vote.

sharpie Nov 21 2005 02:31 PM

Warner vs. Allen would be a matchup of Virginia governors.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 21 2005 02:35 PM

Having a President from Virginia would make me think it was 1804 or something. Four of the first five were from Virginia, and off the top of my head, I'm not sure that there have been any since Monroe.

Edgy DC Nov 21 2005 02:40 PM

The great Woodie Wilson was a Virginian. I'm sure there were others. Taylor? I need to check out the UPDB.

Valadius Nov 21 2005 02:41 PM

Well, if you wanted to know where they were born: Virginia has produced 8 Presidents. George Washington Thomas Jefferson James Madison James Monroe William Henry Harrison John Tyler Zachary Taylor Woodrow Wilson

sharpie Nov 21 2005 02:46 PM

Wilson did all his politicking in New Jersey, however.

Valadius Nov 21 2005 02:48 PM

And Warner wouldn't add to that list, anyway. He was born in Indiana.

Edgy DC Nov 21 2005 02:48 PM

Yeah, peeps down here claim him anyhow, of course. We are the mediocre presidents You won't find our face on dollars or on cents There's Taylor, there's Tyler There's Fillmore and there's Hayes. There's William Henry Harrison "I died in 30 days!" We are the adequate, forgettable Occasionally regrettable Caretaker presidents of the U.S.A.!

Valadius Nov 21 2005 03:05 PM

I share a birthday with William Henry Harrison: February 9th.

rpackrat Nov 21 2005 04:46 PM

]I really don't think Hillary would win in 08, she is a very divisive person You mean as opposed to the current, universally beloved, President? That list of Repub hopefuls is not too impressive, either. Brownback and Tancredo are both certifiably insane; Allen, Barbour, and Gingrich are all too abrasive; Giuliani and Pataki will never win the nomination (pro-choice, pro-gay rights -- these guys would qualify as moderate Democrats almost anywhere but NY); Frist will have a hard time running a campaign from his prison cell, where he will be doing time for securities fraud; Rice is one of the principal architects of an incresingly unpopular war; Romney can't even get his pet legislation through in his own state. Hagel looks interesting (and would merit a serious look from me). The others might also have a shot, though Thompson in particular has some baggage from his time in Bush's cabinet.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 21 2005 05:01 PM

No mention of John McCain?

martin Nov 21 2005 05:01 PM

i am a brainless southern-bred racist, so i am registered as a republican, so i would vote in the republican primary, probably for giuliani. if i was a democrat i would hope i could vote for bill bradley i think.

KC Nov 21 2005 05:35 PM

>>>i am a brainless southern-bred racist, so i am registered as a republican<<< An uncomfortable hush falls over the CPF

Valadius Nov 21 2005 05:52 PM

Well, McCain is a Republican, so that's why he hasn't been mentioned in this thread.

martin Nov 21 2005 06:05 PM

i recently voted in the jersey governor's election. i didnt pay much attention, so i used the following process for each office that was being elected: 1. vote for a libertarian if possible. 2. vote for the republican if you have to. 3. if the republican is a loud christian, just vote for the most foreign sounding name regardless of party. i think if we all adopted this system, the world would be a more pleasing place to live. i guess if i apply my system to your list, i would vote for bayh.

martin Nov 21 2005 06:10 PM

metirish wrote: No way she wins in a walk, infact I think she would inspire the Republican base to vote...here's a strong list of Republican candidates... http://www.politics1.com/p2008-gop.htm of that list giuliani is my favorite, although i wish that jeb bush would run and win, i would like to see the anger that would stir up.

KC Nov 21 2005 06:16 PM

>>>Well, McCain is a Republican, so that's why he hasn't been mentioned in this thread.<<< Do you ever read other posts in a thread before typing? I mean it's just freakin' frustrating sometimes. You're a student at an elite college in DC?

TheOldMole Nov 21 2005 07:17 PM

My vote on the Kos poll was for Edwards.

Edgy DC Nov 21 2005 07:38 PM

We don't have elite colleges in DC. Elite tuitions, yeah, but no elite colleges.

metirish Nov 21 2005 08:26 PM

]of that list giuliani is my favorite, although i wish that jeb bush would run and win, i would like to see the anger that would stir up Oh I think Giuliani would be a terrible candidate, he was a great Mayor post 9/11 and was a good prosecuter before that(although he scores no points with me because of Joe Doherty), Giuliani never strikes me as a politician, it was his way or the nothing with him,after Katrina a lament on TV was how that City needed a Giuliani to lead them,ot he'd be great as a terrorism czar, stuff like that,I don't think he's a politician. Plus is he where the Republican party is going?,as much as he is respected I doubt the Christian right would go for him.

martin Nov 21 2005 11:17 PM

metirish wrote: Plus is he where the Republican party is going?,as much as he is respected I doubt the Christian right would go for him. maybe the party will get lucky and slide a little back towards small-government social moderates. it seems like the party should be realizing they are in danger of alienating lots of people with all the jesus lovin. (i vote republican, but i am also obsessed with mocking and rudely insulting all faiths) but i do agree, it seems like getting the republican nomination would be very tough for rudy, maybe tougher than getting elected. the democrats should pray he doesnt make it through the primary.

MFS62 Nov 22 2005 05:22 AM

Edgy DC wrote: We don't have elite colleges in DC. Elite tuitions, yeah, but no elite colleges. Hey, I got my Masters from the GWU Business School. (Or does that prove your point? :) ) I see your point about the tuition, though. Later

KC Nov 22 2005 05:30 AM

It was inappropriate for me to say that, and I apologize. Where someone goes to school, or where they work and do for a living, or where they live, is better left out of these disucssions. Espccially political or other "hot" topic threads. My bad, I should know better.

Edgy DC Nov 22 2005 06:09 AM

Well, great. Pull the bandwagon over and throw the keys in the bushes after I climb in the back. My larger point, now forced to clarify, is that students can and do flourish or flounder at almost any college. My boss is a Yalie, but...

sharpie Nov 22 2005 06:41 AM

]maybe the party will get lucky and slide a little back towards small-government social moderates. Not gonna happen unless and until they lose an election with a too-conservative candidate. The mantra right now is that Bush I and Dole were too moderate and that they need to stir up the far-right base to win.

Willets Point Nov 22 2005 07:44 AM Re: Dems in 2008: Who d'ya Like?

TheOldMole wrote: The Daily Kos straw poll: If the 2008 presidential primary were held today, who would you vote for? Bayh 47 votes - 1 % Biden 58 votes - 1 % Clark 935 votes - 27 % Clinton 203 votes - 5 % Edwards 432 votes - 12 % Feingold 642 votes - 18 % Kerry 81 votes - 2 % Richardson 155 votes - 4 % Vilsack 14 votes - 0 % Warner 556 votes - 16 % Other 91 votes - 2 % No frickin' clue 247 votes - 7 % No Kucinich? I'll vote for a Democrat when they actually put a progressive up for canidacay.

Nymr83 Nov 22 2005 09:41 AM

Maybe Clark won that poll because more Democrats (and i'm a registered Democrat who supported Al Gore in 2000 but not Kerry in 2004) are realizing that they will not win an election between left-wing radicals (Hillary Clinton, John Kerry) and right-wing radicals (anyone named Bush.) 2004 was an election with no right answer imo, maybe a Clark v. McCain in 2008 can be an election with no wrong answer, since i prefer the moderates in both parties i'd love to see that happen.

Valadius Nov 22 2005 09:44 AM

Warner-Clark ticket? Hmm...

sharpie Nov 22 2005 09:46 AM

What policy differences do you see between Wes Clark and Hillary Clinton? I can't think of one. She and her husband all but endorsed Clark in the early going until his campaign fizzled. My guess is that Clark won't run but will endorse Hillary.

metirish Nov 22 2005 09:49 AM

Good point sharpie, I've seen Gen. Clark on show's like Real Time with Bill Maher and he came accross as quite liberal, of course he could have been playing to the crowd....he seems like a smart man though.

MFS62 Nov 22 2005 10:11 AM

This just in: The Kansas Board of Education has gone on record as not believing the 1962 Mets evolved into the 1969 World Series Champions. Later

Willets Point Nov 22 2005 10:26 AM

]left-wing radicals (Hillary Clinton, John Kerry) If these people are "left-wing radicals" we're in more trouble than I thought. The problem of Clintons-Gore-Kerry is that they try so hard to be moderate that they've moved the center well into right-wing territory.

rpackrat Nov 22 2005 11:12 AM

Thanks, willet. That comment was so ridiculous, I though it was surely meant as a joke.

Nymr83 Nov 22 2005 11:36 AM

you guys are nuts, you know that? next you'll be telling me that John McCain isn't a moderate right?

sharpie Nov 22 2005 11:42 AM

He's a conservative. That's how he defines himself. Not a hard-right conservative, but a conservative nonetheless in the Goldwater mode. Olympia Snowe, Lincoln Chaffee and Susan Collins, they are the moderate Republicans in the Senate. Then there is a small group -- McCain, Spector, Warner, maybe one or two others who sometimes don't vote in lockstep with the White House, that doesn't mean they aren't conservatives.

Nymr83 Nov 22 2005 12:11 PM

so all republicans are conservative but all democrats aren't liberal? thats a pretty dumb thing to say. a moderate is either someone towards the center of the american public or furthest from the extreme of their own party, by either definition McCain is a moderate.

Edgy DC Nov 22 2005 12:16 PM

Your candidate is extremist. Mine isn't. That's how it works. I think we should stay away from labels and run towards ideas and play among those. Meaningless labels are what spin doctors use. Don't fall into that crap. Summing up a political mind with simple categories doesn't tell us anything.

metirish Nov 22 2005 12:20 PM

I like McCain but I feel as a political force his time is past, sure he can pressure MLB on steroids but as a viable candidate for the White House he's done.

sharpie Nov 22 2005 12:25 PM

What Edgy said but for the record... Not all Democrats are liberal (whatever that means these days if Hillary Clinton is being called a liberal). Not all Republicans are conservative. I'm just taking McCain at his word. When he campaigned for President he consistently rejected the "moderate" term to call himself a "conservative." He said that he wasn't willing to run on a ticket with John Kerry because he's too conservative on fiscal and social issues to make a good fit. He's an honorable man, might make a good President, but if he rejects the label so be it.

TheOldMole Nov 22 2005 12:50 PM

Phil Spector doesn't vote in lockstep with the president?

Valadius Nov 22 2005 12:51 PM

As a political science major taking a course in American Politics this semester, it's baffling to see the two parties try to cast themselves as "liberal" or conservative. The truth is, America is a very moderate country, with the vast majority of its voters in the middle of the political spectrum. My political science professor calls the strategy needed to win elections "hunting where the ducks are": essentially, aim for where the voters are, in America's case the middle. If the right person came along to run as the candidate of a new party, a moderate party, while successfully casting the Republican and Democrat as too conservative and too liberal, they could very well win the Presidency. By the way, just so you know, I love politics, and that's where I see myself headed.

sharpie Nov 22 2005 12:54 PM

Vote for Valadius. Spector mostly votes in lockstep but he occasionally strays, just so the folks back home think he is "his own man."

seawolf17 Nov 22 2005 12:56 PM

Wait. Confused. Can I vote for Phil Spector? Can I just vote for his hair?

Valadius Nov 22 2005 12:58 PM

I believe we're supposed to be referring to Sen. Arlen Specter (R-PA), Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee.

seawolf17 Nov 22 2005 01:00 PM

That's all fine and good, Val... but I'm still voting for Phil Spector.

martin Nov 22 2005 02:16 PM

sharpie wrote: ]maybe the party will get lucky and slide a little back towards small-government social moderates. Not gonna happen unless and until they lose an election with a too-conservative candidate. The mantra right now is that Bush I and Dole were too moderate and that they need to stir up the far-right base to win. i hope you are wrong about that, and that less religious forces will try and reverse the party direction without needing to lose first. that is why giuliani is cool, because i think he may be the guy to get republicans together, because he is hard to dislike, even if you are a nutty magic-loving christian. i could be wrong. maybe he can veer towards the religious right far enough during the primaries to make it through, then steer back towards sanity afterwards. if the republicans dont give me giuliani, i might abandon them in a national election for the first time and vote for whatever no-name libertarian is on the ballot. and maybe lots of republicans will too, or vote democrat, and then the loss will happen, like you said. i hope that doesn't happen because i think democrats will do terrible things to the health care system.

Nymr83 Nov 22 2005 02:25 PM

Valadius- i don't think ANY third party candidate is viable in national elections, you hit the nail right on the head though, America is a moderate nation and whoever runs the MOST moderate candidate should win in 2008. the goal for both parties (but especially for the party who lost last time) has to be to find a candidate closer to the center than the other guy. The Democrats lost last time and have little to gain by throwing out a candidate who can't take away some of the centrists who voted for the other guys last time. also, i wouldnt put much stock in a politician's self-labelling. I'm sure Bush thinks that he is representative of mainstream America, McCain's called himself a conservative precisely because he isn't, he didnt need to convince the moderates of what he was, he needed to try and convince the southern republicans that he would be a good choice for them.

metirish Nov 23 2005 09:21 AM

Regrets I have a few... ] Kerry wins election... as jury foreman BOSTON (AP) -- Sen. John Kerry's public profile and prosecutorial past didn't spare him from performing that most mundane of civic responsibilities -- jury duty. Kerry was not only chosen this week to sit on a jury in Suffolk Superior Court, but also was elected foreman. The case involved two men who sued the city for injuries suffered in a 2000 car accident involving a school principal. The Kerry-led jury rejected their claim Tuesday, and his fellow jurors said the state's junior senator was a natural leader. "I just found him to be a knowledgeable, normal person," said Cynthia Lovell, a nurse and registered Republican who says she now regrets voting for President Bush in last year's election. "He kept us focused. He wanted us all to have our own say." The former Democratic presidential candidate reported for duty Monday and none of the lawyers in the case objected to putting him on the jury. "I was a little surprised," Kerry said of being selected for jury duty. "I enjoyed it," he said. "It was very, very interesting and very instructive."

TheOldMole Nov 23 2005 10:21 AM

If Phil Spector is running, he's got my vote. Otherwise, I'm for Valadius.

rpackrat Nov 23 2005 01:33 PM

]so all republicans are conservative but all democrats aren't liberal? You're the only one who said that. There are a handful of moderate Republicans in Congress (and more who are not in Congress). But, at this point in time, the national Republican party has moved very far to the right. Ronald Reagan looks downright moderate in comparison to the Bush-DeLay wing of the party, and that is the wing that is now in control. There have been times in the past when the Democratic party has been similarly controlled by its more liberal factions. That is not the case at present. With the exception of Ted Kennedy and, maybe, Russ Feingold, you will be hard pressed to find any Senate Democrat who qualifies as liberal. Hillary Clinton, that bugaboo of the hard right, has been consistently hawkish during her tenure in the Senate. Biden and Lieberman, in addition to their hawkishness, actually voted FOR the reprehensible Republican-sponsored bankruptcy bill a few months ago. The Democratic party has moved significantly to the right over the past 15-20 years. There are very few nationally prominent Democrats espousing liberalism these days (though I think we might be poised for a change on that).

Benjamin Grimm Nov 26 2005 04:53 AM

Governor Says Big Leagues Never Called Him After All By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS ALBUQUERQUE, N.M., Nov. 24 (AP) - Gov. Bill Richardson has admitted that his claim to have been a draft pick of the Kansas City A's in 1966 was untrue. The claim was included in a brief biography released when Mr. Richardson, a right-handed pitcher who played at Tufts University, successfully ran for Congress in 1982. A White House news release in 1997 mentioned it when he was about to be named as ambassador to the United Nations. And several news organizations, including The New York Times, have reported it as fact over the years. But an investigation by The Albuquerque Journal found no record of Mr. Richardson's being drafted by the A's, who have since moved to Oakland, or any other team. Informed by the newspaper of its findings, the governor acknowledged the inaccuracy in an article in Thursday's paper. Mr. Richardson said that "after being notified of the situation and after researching the matter" he had come "to the conclusion that I was not drafted by the A's." He said he had believed it was true based on an old program from an amateur team he had played for in Massachusetts. Mr. Richardson, said he was actively scouted by several major-league teams in the 1960's. He insisted to the newspaper that his name had appeared on "a draft list of some kind" created by the Los Angeles Dodgers and the Pittsburgh Pirates. He named team scouts he said had told him he "would or could" be drafted. The scouts have died. Mr. Richardson later developed arm trouble, eliminating any possible pro career. In the summer of 1967, he played for the amateur Cape Cod League's Cotuit Kettleers. The words "Drafted by K.C." appear next to his name on a faded team program, The Journal reported. "When I saw that program in 1967, I was convinced I was drafted," Mr. Richardson said. "And it stayed with me all these years." The general manager from that time, Arnold Mycock, said the biographical information was supplied by players or their college coaches. On a biographical sheet Mr. Richardson completed for Tufts in his junior year, he wrote, "Drafted by Kansas City (1966), LA (1968)." He says he wrote those words because he believed they were true. "I never tried to embellish this," he said. "I never tried to mask it." Mr. Richardson, elected governor in 2002, is seeking a second term next year.

Willets Point Nov 28 2005 08:46 AM

Obviously if he had been drafted by the Kansas City A's he would have ended up with the Yankees.

MFS62 Nov 28 2005 08:55 AM

Willets Point wrote: Obviously if he had been drafted by the Kansas City A's he would have ended up with the Yankees. LOL! Nice Later

Nymr83 Nov 28 2005 08:55 AM

doesnt seem like a big deal to me. with all the lying that politicians have done this isn't even a blip on the radar. i didn't even have a problem with what Clinton did so this is nothing.