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Mets All Time Team

themetfairy Jun 18 2012 07:49 AM

D-Dad and I were at the Mets All Time Team event at the 92nd Street Y. The format was simple - Gary Cohen, Howie Rose and Kevin Burkhardt hosted the event. They named the top Met at each position, and that player came out and talked to the guys for a few minutes. Then at the end there was a Q&A. It'll be edited down to two hours and shown on SNY on Thursday evening. Here is the team, as chosen by the committee - 1B - Keith Hernandez 2B - Edgardo Alfonzo 3B - David Wright SS - Jose Reyes (who accepted via video) C - Mike Piazza (a no show - strange!) LF - Cleon Jones (surprisingly entertaining!) CF -Carlos Beltran (who accepted via video, and apologized for not playing better due to injuries during his Mets tenure) RF - Darryl Strawberry RHP Reliever - Roger McDowell (who accepted via video) LHP Reliever - Tug McGraw (represented by his brother Hank and son Mark. Plus Tim had a video presentation) LHP Starter - Kooz RHP Starter - The Franchise (who must have been imbibing backstage, because he was VERY talkative onstage!) Manager - Davey Johnson (who accepted via video). My only quibble was with the choice of manager - when you hear these guys talk from the heart about what Gil Hodges did for them, you realize that the early Mets could never have transformed into World Champs without him. My favorite moment of the night was when the preshow entertainer (from the 92nd Street Y) wanted the crowd to do the wave, and the crowd refused It's not very often that you get to attend a Mets lovefest with these kinds of dignitaries in the house, and it was a really special evening.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 18 2012 07:52 AM Re: Mets All Time Team

The Daily News had a special pull-out section in the paper today. Strange to see a baseball pull-out section that wasn't about the Yankees. I can only imagine that somebody got fired over this.

Edgy MD Jun 18 2012 08:05 AM Re: Mets All Time Team

Johnson is certainly a defensible choice, given the unfortunate shortness of Hodges' tenure, but these are supposed to be hard choices. Nice to see Cleon get his day. Folks typically forget about Cle' when doing these things.

Ceetar Jun 18 2012 08:22 AM Re: Mets All Time Team

Edgy DC wrote: Johnson is certainly a defensible choice, given the unfortunate shortness of Hodges' tenure, but these are supposed to be hard choices. Nice to see Cleon get his day. Folks typically forget about Cle' when doing these things. Except when packing sweet potatoes or eating pizza anyway ;-)

metirish Jun 18 2012 08:24 AM Re: Mets All Time Team

Fonzie looks great , I think he is one of those players that with the passage of time he is more and more appreciated for the player he was and person he is.(not that he wasn't appreciated)

Vic Sage Jun 18 2012 08:29 AM Re: Mets All Time Team

This is pretty close to the results of our own exercises on this topic, no? Yeah for Cleon over the Little Rock Cocksucker.

themetfairy Jun 18 2012 08:33 AM Re: Mets All Time Team

I agree that Davey is a defensible choice, but in the grand scheme of Mets history I think that Gil would have been the better choice.

metsguyinmichigan Jun 18 2012 08:51 AM Re: Mets All Time Team

Dividing pitchers by lefty-righty always seems odd to me. It's not like it is a different position, and you could have an all-righty or all-lefty bullpen or rotation. That's my long about way of saying that it seems odd to have McDowell on the team and not Jesse Orosco or John Franco. Also, does this lead to Fonzie's eventually induction in the Mets Hall? McDowell, too?

Edgy MD Jun 18 2012 08:56 AM Re: Mets All Time Team

I imagine they'll both have their day. Fonzie, certainly. By the way, I shouldn't let this pass without a big BOOOOOOOOOO for selecting McDowell over Benitez. The Mets PR people would do well to facilitate the rehabilitation of Benitiez' image among Mets fans.

G-Fafif Jun 18 2012 09:36 AM Re: Mets All Time Team

11 of the 13 choices seem, per non-voting committee member Mona Lisa Vito in My Cousin Vinny, dead-on balls accurate, Tug in particular being an inspired choice given what relief pitching necessitated in his day versus Franco's. McDowell had less upside than Benitez but way less downside. I'd probably grade on upside alone, but I'm not going to argue too vociferously against a world champion whose 5 IP made that World Series occur (or for the occasionally underestimated Benitez, whose late-inning implosions retain their pungency nine years since he left). Davey deserves Most Successful Manager honors. Gil, though...I was in on a small gaggle talking to Cleon Jones Friday night and to paraphrase Joe Biden as regarded Rudy Giuliani in 2008, every sentence was a noun, a verb and "Gil Hodges," which seemed to reflect everything you've ever heard anybody who played for him say of him. I'm wildly pro-Davey as a rule (even in a bleeping Nationals warmup jacket)...but geez...Gil...y'know?

Centerfield Jun 18 2012 09:39 AM Re: Mets All Time Team

There is no doubt that Benitez was a better pitcher than Roger McDowell. Just as there is no doubt that Benitez will ever win any sort of poll involving Mets fans. Ever.

metirish Jun 18 2012 09:45 AM Re: Mets All Time Team

Centerfield wrote: There is no doubt that Benitez was a better pitcher than Roger McDowell. Just as there is no doubt that Benitez will ever win any sort of poll involving Mets fans. Ever. well, unfortunately he would "win" in most hated, worst closer poll. not from me mind,

G-Fafif Jun 18 2012 09:48 AM Re: Mets All Time Team

Centerfield wrote: Just as there is no doubt that Benitez will ever win any sort of poll involving Mets fans. Ever. Probably not, but this vote was from a panel consisting of Howie, Gary, Marty Noble, Mike Vaccaro, John Harper and Mike Lupica.

Met Hunter Jun 18 2012 09:50 AM Re: Mets All Time Team

Edgy DC wrote: I imagine they'll both have their day. Fonzie, certainly. By the way, I shouldn't let this pass without a big BOOOOOOOOOO for selecting McDowell over Benitez. The Mets PR people would do well to facilitate the rehabilitation of Benitiez' image among Mets fans. Totally agree with this^. Ive talked to Benitez as he's made his rounds around independant leagues in the area and he can't understand why fans are so anti-Benitez. He wasn't perfect, but he's got twice as many saves as McDowell.

Frayed Knot Jun 18 2012 09:54 AM Re: Mets All Time Team

Edgy DC wrote: Nice to see Cleon get his day. Folks typically forget about Cle' when doing these things. Was it the 40th anniversary fan-vote team that had Dykstra out in LF rather then Jones? Clearly favorites play largely into these things.

G-Fafif Jun 18 2012 09:55 AM Re: Mets All Time Team

Frayed Knot wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Nice to see Cleon get his day. Folks typically forget about Cle' when doing these things. Was it the 40th anniversary fan-vote team that had Dykstra out in LF rather then Jones? Clearly favorites play largely into these things. Yup. The OF was selected ASG style w/o regard for positions.

G-Fafif Jun 18 2012 09:57 AM Re: Mets All Time Team

Changes from 40th (fan vote) to 50th (panel): SS -- Buddy to Jose 3B -- HoJo to David OF -- Mookie and Lenny out, Cleon and Carlos in LHRP -- Franco to Tug MGR -- Gil to Davey Also 40th team included Rusty and Krane as PHs.

metirish Jun 18 2012 09:59 AM Re: Mets All Time Team

Also 40th team included Rusty and Krane as PHs. current version would include Hairston.......j/k

Frayed Knot Jun 18 2012 10:03 AM Re: Mets All Time Team

G-Fafif wrote: Changes from 40th (fan vote) to 50th (panel): SS -- Buddy to Jose 3B -- HoJo to David OF -- Mookie and Lenny out, Cleon and Carlos in LHRP -- Franco to Tug MGR -- Gil to Davey All worthy updates IMO which reflects increased knowledge via the passage of time and/or a better voting process.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 18 2012 02:56 PM Re: Mets All Time Team

G-Fafif wrote: Centerfield wrote: Just as there is no doubt that Benitez will ever win any sort of poll involving Mets fans. Ever. Probably not, but this vote was from a panel consisting of Howie, Gary, Marty Noble, Mike Vaccaro, John Harper and Mike Lupica. "Okay, yeah, okay, I guess, wait-what, wait-seriously?" -Me, reading those names

Frayed Knot Jun 18 2012 03:22 PM Re: Mets All Time Team

G-Fafif wrote: Centerfield wrote: Just as there is no doubt that Benitez will ever win any sort of poll involving Mets fans. Ever. Probably not, but this vote was from a panel consisting of Howie, Gary, Marty Noble, Mike Vaccaro, John Harper and Mike Lupica. Always got the impression that Gary was never a Benitez supporter. He buys into the whole "never came through when you needed it" mantra as much as many of the fans do. Not surprising perhaps considering that he's also heavily into the Jeter/clutch connection.

Edgy MD Jun 18 2012 03:22 PM Re: Mets All Time Team

'Zackly.

Zvon Jun 18 2012 03:49 PM Re: Mets All Time Team

For those who don't get The Daily News here are some images associated with the Mets All-Time Team.

Edgy MD Jun 18 2012 03:51 PM Re: Mets All Time Team

Wright looks like a threat to all that is decent. Darryl looks drunk off his ass.

Frayed Knot Jun 18 2012 04:37 PM Re: Mets All Time Team

Those aren't Bruce Stark caricatures, that's for sure.

G-Fafif Jun 18 2012 05:12 PM Re: Mets All Time Team

It's a little stark...

Zvon Jun 18 2012 05:31 PM Re: Mets All Time Team

I should have included the artists name in the post. Thats by Ed Murawinski. Doesn't capture their likenesses as perfectly as Stark did, but still very nice work.

metsguyinmichigan Jun 18 2012 05:31 PM Re: Mets All Time Team

Not liking that David is in the black cap, either! Really looks out of place.

Zvon Jun 18 2012 05:58 PM Re: Mets All Time Team

metsguyinmichigan wrote: Not liking that David is in the black cap, either! Really looks out of place. It does. And he definitely looks demented.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 18 2012 06:23 PM Re: Mets All Time Team

Come on guys, this is pretty good work.

SteveJRogers Jun 18 2012 06:42 PM Re: Mets All Time Team

G-Fafif wrote: Changes from 40th (fan vote) to 50th (panel): SS -- Buddy to Jose 3B -- HoJo to David OF -- Mookie and Lenny out, Cleon and Carlos in LHRP -- Franco to Tug MGR -- Gil to Davey Also 40th team included Rusty and Krane as PHs. SS and 3B as well as Beltran in the OF are obvious. Gil to Davey, Lenny to Cleon and Franco to Tug are clearly a case of fan voting being overridden. I wonder how much of an upset it was considered for Franco to get the nod.

Edgy MD Jun 18 2012 07:16 PM Re: Mets All Time Team

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Come on guys, this is pretty good work. Tell me Straw isn't wasted. Is that the guy who did the "Bandwagon Rolls into Philly" cartoon?

Frayed Knot Jun 18 2012 07:17 PM Re: Mets All Time Team

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Come on guys, this is pretty good work. Not suggesting that they're bad. Just that Stark was among the best in the biz.

SteveJRogers Jun 21 2012 03:48 PM Re: Mets All Time Team

Was the 40th the only other time the Mets dabbled with doing an "official" All-Time team? FWIW tonight, 6/21, SNY is airing the event from the 17th that unveiled the team from 7-9. Also on Monday from 6:30-7 SNY is re-airing their Top 50 Mets that they aired back in late May. Something I also wonder if it is the first time the Mets dabbled in doing such a ranking on an official level. BTW, that 40th anniversary squad was revealed at Shea, with a snazzy card set giveaway by Fleer. Kind of disappointing that they didn't approach Topps to do the same with the 50th anniversary squad. Well, that I know of so far.

Swan Swan H Jun 21 2012 06:46 PM Re: Mets All Time Team

I missed the beginning of the show. I'm sure they'll be replaying it a few times in the future. Would have liked to see Hernandez and Fonzie. All of the players were great, especially Cleon. Looks like Seaver was sampling his product prior to the show.

SteveJRogers Jun 21 2012 07:54 PM Re: Mets All Time Team

The committee made some interesting nominations: 1B Keith Hernandez Dave Kingman, Ed Kranepool, John Olerud 2B Edgardo Alfonzo Wally Backman, Doug Flynn, Felix Millan 3B David Wright Hubie Brooks, Howard Johnson, Robin Ventura SS Jose Reyes Bud Harrelson, Rey Ordonez, Rafael Santana LF Cleon Jones Cliff Floyd, George Foster, Kevin McReynolds CF Carlos Beltran Tommie Agee, Lenny Dykstra, Mookie Wilson RF Darryl Strawberry Bobby Bonilla, Rusty Staub, Ron Swoboda C Mike Piazza Gary Carter, Jerry Grote, Todd Hundley RHP Starter Tom Seaver David Cone, Ron Darling, Dwight Gooden LHP Starter Jerry Koosman Sid Fernandez, Al Leiter, Jon Matlack RHP Reliever Roger McDowell Neil Allen, Armando Benitez, Skip Lockwood LHP Reliever Tug McGraw John Franco, Randy Myers, Jesse Orosco Manager Davey Johnson Gil Hodges, Casey Stengel, Bobby Valentine

Ashie62 Jun 21 2012 07:57 PM Re: Mets All Time Team

Hey! They remembered Skip Lockwood.

G-Fafif Jun 22 2012 04:02 AM Re: Mets All Time Team

Extending the All-Time Team into the All-Time Roster.

HahnSolo Jun 22 2012 06:14 AM Re: Mets All Time Team

The Seaver caricature looks more like Roger Clemens than The Franchise.

Vic Sage Jun 22 2012 11:19 AM Re: Mets All Time Team

G-Fafif wrote: Extending the All-Time Team into the All-Time Roster. you missed Wayne Garrett for the bench.

Edgy MD Jun 22 2012 11:28 AM Re: Mets All Time Team

I like how he constructed it. It's different than the way me mostly have --- by selecting our second-best all-time players at each position to round out the bench, five number one starters to round out the rotation, five relief aces for the pen. I could quibble here and there, but the notion of Terry Leach vs. Pat Mahomes vs. Harry Parker for "Best Swing-Man" is a discusion worth having.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 22 2012 11:47 AM Re: Mets All Time Team

I thought that the committee's selection of Tug McGraw as best LHRelP was the most inspired one. But it also angered me because I had failed to use qualitative factors when I chose my all time team in another thread here. I chose Franco -- but only grudgingly, I admitted, because he never struck as a special reliever. He more or less accumulated large counting stats as a Met because he was here too damn long, and I use the word "long" pejoratively. Had I went with qualitative factors, I might have chosen Orosco, but Tug's not a bad choice at all, and the arguments for Tug are compelling.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 22 2012 11:50 AM Re: Mets All Time Team

batmagadanleadoff wrote: I thought that the committee's selection of Tug McGraw as best LHRelP was the most inspired one. But it also angered me because I had failed to use qualitative factors when I chose my all time team in another thread here. I chose Franco -- but only grudgingly, I admitted, because he never struck as a special reliever. He more or less accumulated large counting stats as a Met because he was here too damn long, and I use the word "long" pejoratively. Had I went with qualitative factors, I might have chosen Orosco, but Tug's not a bad choice at all, and the arguments for Tug are compelling. Here's the thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17268&hilit=franco

G-Fafif Jun 22 2012 12:40 PM Re: Mets All Time Team

Garrett among those strongly considered. Lost out to Youngblood in that "good enough to start, usually not trusted by management" role for versatility (Joel IF-OF and capble of catching, even) and the desire for a righty bat with a little pop.

G-Fafif Jun 22 2012 12:42 PM Re: Mets All Time Team

When the results were announced, I thought, "you mean you don't have to select Franco? I thought it was required."

SteveJRogers Jun 25 2012 05:34 PM Re: Mets All Time Team

SNY/Citi's list of the Top 50 Greatest Mets: 1. Tom Seaver 2. Dwight Gooden 3. Keith Hernandez 4. Jerry Koosman 5. Darryl Strawberry 6. Mike Piazza 7. Carlos Beltran 8. David Wright 9. Jose Reyes 10. Gary Carter 11. Cleon Jones 12. Ron Darling 13. Edgardo Alfonzo 14. John Franco 15. Mookie Wilson 16. David Cone 17. Al Leiter 18. Jerry Grote 19. Howard Johnson 20. Bud Harrelson 21. Tommie Agee 22. Rusty Staub 23. Sid Fernandez 24. Jon Matlack 25. Jesse Orosco 26. Tug McGraw 27. Lenny Dykstra 28. Johan Santana 29. John Olerud 30. Todd Hundley 31. Robin Ventura 32. Lee Mazzilli 33. Felix Millan 34. Kevin McReynolds 35. Carlos Delgado 36. Ed Kranepool 37. Bob Ojeda 38. Frank Viola 39. Dave Kingman 40. Ron Swoboda 41. John Stearns 42. Wally Backman 43. Rick Reed 44. Roger McDowell 45. Hubie Brooks 46. Ray Knight 47. Ron Hunt 48. John Milner 49. Bobby Bonilla 50. Wayne Garrett

SteveJRogers Jun 25 2012 05:57 PM Re: Mets All Time Team

I find it interesting that on the All Time Team McGraw was selected, but in the Top 50 Ranking both Orosco and Franco are ahead of him. Also not making the cut out of the ranks of the All-Time Team's nominees: 2B Doug Flynn SS Rey Ordonez, Rafael Santana LF Cliff Floyd, George Foster LHP Reliever Randy Myers RHP Reliever the whole ballot of Armando Benitez, Neil Allen and Skip Lockwood Some obviously wouldn't, and shouldn't, belong on a Top 50 Mets list, it's just interesting to see them in the running at the positions and not making the Top 50 rankings.

SteveJRogers Jun 25 2012 08:37 PM Re: Mets All Time Team

G-Fafif wrote: Changes from 40th (fan vote) to 50th (panel): SS -- Buddy to Jose 3B -- HoJo to David OF -- Mookie and Lenny out, Cleon and Carlos in LHRP -- Franco to Tug MGR -- Gil to Davey Also 40th team included Rusty and Krane as PHs. Doing some digging, I'd thought I'd share some interesting things with both the 40th and 50th ballots themselves. 1st, 2nd, Catcher, Skipper and all 4 pitchers were unchanged, while Wright and Reyes replaced Ed Charles and Kevin Elster off of the 3B and SS ballots respectively. Because the Outfield was all-inclusive fans had to choose three out of 12 candidates. Going to combine the lists anyway. On the 40th but not 50th: Dave Kingman, Willie Mays, Lee Mazzilli. On the 50th but not the 40th: Carlos Beltran, Bobby Bonilla, Cliff Floyd. And here are the candidates whom fans could choose two pinch hitters off of, where Krane and Rusty got selected to the squad.: Bruce Boisclair Mark Carreon Matt Franco Ed Kranepool Lenny Harris Ron Hodges Lee Mazzilli Rusty Staub