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He WON'T have another

Frayed Knot Jun 08 2012 07:27 PM

As I'm sure you've heard - and Gary was just talking about it - 'I'll Have Another' won't even run for his Triple Crown attempt tomorrow or ever again according to his trainer/handlers. I don't care a bit about horse-racing, but I do get the biggest kick every year when a possible TC horse comes by. The horse-racing enthusiasts (the few that are left anyway) have convinced themselves that their industry is just a TC away from the sport regaining its one-time prominence atop the American sports hierarchy. Those insiders were always loath to admit that that long-ago popularity had anything at all to do with gambling, but of course as soon lotteries, casinos and other forms of wagering meant that racing no longer had a government protected monopoly on legal gambling in this country, its popularity sunk like a stone. The three big races will still generate big attendance from celebs, hangers-on, and various parts of rich/white society, and probably decent TV ratings as well for those tuning in to the spectacle of it more than anything else. But it's a dead sport (assuming it's even a sport) and in a way I'm sorry there won't be a TC winner just so this story about being a "star" away from the front pages for more than a day or two gets exposed for the fiction it is. Then all we'll have to do is work on the crusty, old boxing geeks who have convinced themselves that they're just a white, American heavyweight away from their sport knocking the NFL & MLB off the top spots.

metirish Jun 08 2012 07:56 PM Re: He WON'T have another

I'm sure Francesa spoke to the horse and has the inside story . What gets me about the all the hype is that these horses have run very few races to this point yet if they win those first two they are being hailed as great, then if they fail to win the third it's like they're forgotten about.......kind of dumb to me , especially as coming from Ireland where the true great horses have won and lost many races over years.....

Mets – Willets Point Jun 08 2012 08:09 PM Re: He WON'T have another

metirish wrote: What gets me about the all the hype is that these horses have run very few races to this point yet if they win those first two they are being hailed as great, then if they fail to win the third it's like they're forgotten about.......kind of dumb to me , especially as coming from Ireland where the true great horses have won and lost many races over years..... These are pretty much the only three horse races the general American sporting public cares about these days. A couple of generations ago, horseracing was second to baseball as America's most popular sport. I think concerns about corruption and animal cruelty paired with the rise of NASCAR have driven it into obscurity.

Frayed Knot Jun 08 2012 08:11 PM Re: He WON'T have another

Francesa is just a small bit of the problem but is a good example of it. He's both a fan and an owner/investor and that's fine, but he's used his position in the media to pump up the sport as part of the hype machine I was talking about above. He's also shilled like crazy for the New York Racing Assoc (NYRA) during various legal hassles they've had, sometimes being up front about it (he briefly had a Sat afternoon show strictly about racing where NYRA was the one and only sponsor) and sometimes more coyly like just happening to come down on their side of every issue without mentioning his connections or interests. Of course NYRA is now being exposed as a corrupt sewer it is in the same way OTB was and like many of these quasi-government organizations with laws written just for them can be. What gets me about the all the hype is that these horses have run very few races to this point yet if they win those first two they are being hailed as great, then if they fail to win the third it's like they're forgotten about.......kind of dumb to me , especially as coming from Ireland where the true great horses have won and lost many races over years..... I'm not going to try to pass myself as anything resembling an expert here, but from what I've read/heard the breeding in this country is much different from that in Europe. There they do breed them for a more durable racing life where the emphasis here is for pure speed (bigger bodies but thinner legs) and a shorter prime, a process which breeds in weaknesses that not only effect the horse's racing life but also its life itself via leg injuries that the more specialized horses sometimes can't survive.

DocTee Jun 08 2012 08:13 PM Re: He WON'T have another

Speculation from racing insiders suggest that there was a collective fear that I'll Have Another was a legitimate threat to win the TC...and for a horse with virtually no bloodlines to speak of (you have to go back eight generations to find a champion in his lineage!) that was bought for just $35K (when stud fees start at a million)this was unfathomable. I suspect there was a significant payout from owners to IHA to get him out of that race in particular, and the racing game in general, to protect their own investments.

metirish Jun 08 2012 08:16 PM Re: He WON'T have another

DocTee wrote: Speculation from racing insiders suggest that there was a collective fear that I'll Have Another was a legitimate threat to win the TC...and for a horse with virtually no bloodlines to speak of (you have to go back eight generations to find a champion in his lineage!) that was bought for just $35K (when stud fees start at a million)this was unfathomable. I suspect there was a significant payout from owners to IHA to get him out of that race in particular, and the racing game in general, to protect their own investments. now, wouldn't that be an explosive story?

Frayed Knot Jun 08 2012 08:18 PM Re: He WON'T have another

Mets – Willets Point wrote: A couple of generations ago, horseracing was second to baseball as America's most popular sport. I think concerns about corruption and animal cruelty paired with the rise of NASCAR have driven it into obscurity. The corruption and concern for the animals is part of it, but I contend that it's mostly the gambling thing. When the horses were virtually the only place in this country where you could place a legal bet that industry had, in effect, a built-in regular audience. Those who ran the sport liked to contend that it was the beauty of the sport that drew crowds but anyone who bought that claim was a fool. I remember a brief strike by the union who worked the windows at the NY tracks a bunch of years back which prevented anyone from placing a bet (this was also pre-OTB IIRC). They held the races anyway for those several days of the strike but the crowds fell from like 15-20K/day to like 15-20 people. Yeah, folks went there just to watch the horses run.

Kong76 Jun 08 2012 08:23 PM Re: He WON'T have another

metirish wrote: I'm sure Francesa spoke to the horse and has the inside story Lmao

Frayed Knot Jun 08 2012 08:24 PM Re: He WON'T have another

DocTee wrote: Speculation from racing insiders suggest that there was a collective fear that I'll Have Another was a legitimate threat to win the TC...and for a horse with virtually no bloodlines to speak of (you have to go back eight generations to find a champion in his lineage!) that was bought for just $35K (when stud fees start at a million)this was unfathomable. I suspect there was a significant payout from owners to IHA to get him out of that race in particular, and the racing game in general, to protect their own investments. I would tend to doubt that, but it was kind of funny that the hype for 'The Next Triple Crown Horse' usually starts about 30 seconds after the Kentucky Derby is over but, in this case, the insiders didn't think this horse was TC material so there was unusually little hype until after his Preakness win. Now there's no chance of him winning it but this lightly-regarded horse will be the only recent close call where the two-time winner won't be defeated on the track.

metirish Jun 08 2012 08:27 PM Re: He WON'T have another

You know what?, now that I read that I'm thinking that I haven't actually heard about this horse until the last few days.

Mets – Willets Point Jun 08 2012 08:38 PM Re: He WON'T have another

Frayed Knot wrote: Mets – Willets Point wrote: A couple of generations ago, horseracing was second to baseball as America's most popular sport. I think concerns about corruption and animal cruelty paired with the rise of NASCAR have driven it into obscurity. The corruption and concern for the animals is part of it, but I contend that it's mostly the gambling thing. When the horses were virtually the only place in this country where you could place a legal bet that industry had, in effect, a built-in regular audience. Those who ran the sport liked to contend that it was the beauty of the sport that drew crowds but anyone who bought that claim was a fool. I remember a brief strike by the union who worked the windows at the NY tracks a bunch of years back which prevented anyone from placing a bet (this was also pre-OTB IIRC). They held the races anyway for those several days of the strike but the crowds fell from like 15-20K/day to like 15-20 people. Yeah, folks went there just to watch the horses run. That's definitely true too. I think gambling was a double-edged sword in that it was the main appeal for people who actually did go to the track but at the same time there are a lot of people who found the gambling repellent and a source of corruption. In recent decades where sporting events are more and more being marketed as family friendly there are few parents who'd want to take their kids down to the track to see the lineup of pathetic gamblers (okay, so *my* family did that, but that's a different story). So over time gamblers found better places to gamble and people looking for a "purer" form of sports entertainment found other venues as well.

Frayed Knot Jun 08 2012 08:50 PM Re: He WON'T have another

Yeah, gamblers have simply found more places to gamble and, when given their options, they've simply chosen to do so almost everywhere except the track. Meanwhile, even Pimlico racetrack, home of the Preakness, is in terrible financial troubles as are a number of other locations. They're finding that they can't make it on their own and that state and local gov'ts are less inclined to prop up the tracks as in days gone by now that they no longer have a monopoly on legal wagering.

seawolf17 Jun 08 2012 08:51 PM Re: He WON'T have another

Moral of the story: horse racing is fuckin' stupid.

MFS62 Jun 08 2012 09:05 PM Re: He WON'T have another

I've never bet on a horse race but I don't think the money already wagered on a scratched horse get refunded, does it? So all that already wagered money is now in the coffers of the NYRA? Fatso must be so happy. Later

Edgy MD Jun 08 2012 09:37 PM Re: He WON'T have another

We're pretty much circling around the same point. The sport was fueled by gambling and exploitation. Now that the gambling attraction is higly tempered by competition, all that's left is the exploitation, and while there's always going to an audience for a sport because of it's exploitation, that's hardly a big enough element for a blueblood rich-man's sport to hand its hat on. An increasingly sophisticated audience, while marveling as all mankind does at the wonder of a horse in full flight, is repulsed by the process of it all. I had two guys next to me on the train two weeks ago --- talking just a bit too loud --- about stuff you shouldn't want strangers to hear. Crazy-assed conspiracy theories. One guy was stationed in Norway with the Navy, but suspects he wasn't in Norway AT ALL! That his superiors just told him that! A glance over said these guys were largely mismatched. One younger, one older, one black, one white. One seemingly employed, one apparently idle. They had apparently never met before that day and had seemingly little in common except they got along like gangbusters and were both balls-out crazy. I puzzled for a bit over this chance pairing before it hit me. Oh, they got on at Laurel Racetrack. If that's the audience you want to bank on, good luck. And it that regard, yeah, I don't think it's all the different from prizefighting.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 08 2012 10:18 PM Re: He WON'T have another

Maybe the Mets'll send Jason Bay over to Norway and tell him he's in Flushing. How the hell would he know the difference? Or anyone? Were you ever in Norway? It's all cornfields anyway.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 09 2012 04:27 AM Re: He WON'T have another

Maybe they can find a part of Norway that has a replica of Ebbets Field across the street from a bunch of auto body shops. That shouldn't be too hard to do.

Nymr83 Jun 09 2012 07:00 AM Re: He WON'T have another

MFS62 wrote: I've never bet on a horse race but I don't think the money already wagered on a scratched horse get refunded, does it? So all that already wagered money is now in the coffers of the NYRA? Fatso must be so happy. Later Its no different than if you bet the Packers -7 and suddenly Aaron Rogers gets hurt in pratice and the line moves to +2, you are stuck and that is the downside to placing an early wager. I'm sure whoever had IHA wouldn't be complaining if his biggest competitor had gotten hurt and they got in before the line jumped. But it's a dead sport (assuming it's even a sport) When you turn on a baseball game its an hour and half of guys playing ball with about half an hour of commercials. When you turn on a horse race its half an hour of commercials, an hour and a half of people yapping, a few "under card" races that you didn't tune in for and then the two minutes you actually care about. I'll watch the race itself IF I happen to be home when its on, but can a sport (ok I don't consider it a sport) survive if people only care to see the two minutes and won't plan their day around it? I don't know.

Frayed Knot Jun 09 2012 04:28 PM Re: He WON'T have another

I figured out why NBC assigns Bob Costas to their horse racing telecasts -- it's the only time he can interview athletes (jockeys) that are within spitting range of his height.

Ceetar Jun 09 2012 04:31 PM Re: He WON'T have another

my (figurative) money is on Guyana Star Dweej. He drinks beer. I approve.

RealityChuck Jun 10 2012 05:54 PM Re: He WON'T have another

MFS62 wrote: I've never bet on a horse race but I don't think the money already wagered on a scratched horse get refunded, does it? So all that already wagered money is now in the coffers of the NYRA? Fatso must be so happy. No. When a horse is scratched all bets are refunded. This includes all exotic wages on the race (i.e., exactas). Exotic wagers on multiple races may have different rules if the scratch occurs after the first race goes off. For the daily double, there is a "consolation double," which goes to bettors who picked the winner in the first race, but whose horse was scratched after the first race; you win some money for those. However, a horse is scratched before the first race goes off, all exotic bets on the horse are refunded. As for the decline of horse racing, betting isn't the issue. It's money -- not to the bettors, but to the owners. You used to make most of your money with a horse by winning races. Thus, you ran them as much as you could. Now, the big money is in stud fees. Once a horse wins the Derby, he's worth a fortune. And you don't want to jeopardize that fortune, so you don't run the horse much after the win (and nowadays, you don't run him much before the win). Ill Have Another raced in a grand total of seven races in his career. If he had won the Belmont, he would have immediately retired. Secretariat ran in 13 races up to the Belmont, and then continued to run in six more. Affirmed ran 15 races up to the Belmont, and another 13 after it. This allowed the fans to both get to know the horse before the Derby and see the Triple Crown winner afterwards. The races before the Derby are important, too, since they can give fans a look at whose contending, and who beat who, creating more interest. There are also fewer geldings, so you don't have horses like Kelso and Cigar who raced for years. One of the greatest races I've seen was Forego winning the Marlboro cup over younger horses despite carrying far more weight. [youtube]aMJjiWXCM3s#t=01m30s[/youtube] What this means is that horse racing is akin to watching a team of rookies play a few games over the course of a year and then quit. The next year, there's no one you know. The concentration on the triple crown also hurts, since it's always new horses. The better races in the year used to be the fall ones, when the horses were grown up, and were given different weighs. Betting isn't really an issue. People still bet on the horses, but for the sport to reverse its decline, it needs to be popular with the non-bettors.