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IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

Edgy MD Jul 04 2012 06:26 AM

Chris Young vs. Cliff Lee this Independence Day. Wait, let me start that over. It's the 2-1, 3.30 Chris Young vs. the 0-5, 4.13 Cliff Lee. How the deuce did that happen? I dunno, but let's keep it up. Like the Federal troops of a US war we're not commemorating this weekend, we've already faced Lee twice so far this campaign. RA Dickey and his troops beat him 5-2 on April 13 in Philly, getting four runs off him in seven innings, including homers from Scott Hairston and Jason Bay. On May 30 at Citi (the famed LeeGee matchup), the Mets got to him for three runs in six innings, but the bullpen blew it all up and the Flushings fell, 10-6. Five straight relievers got touched for at least one run, totalling eight runs in 2 1/3 innings (plus an inherited runner of Gee's who scored.) Lucas Duda went deep twice in that game, once off of Lee. That first win helped the Mets to a 2-1 series win (that might have been a sweep hadn't bullpen pyrotechnics appeared in game three. The May 30 loss gave the Phils a series win. We also have a sweep of the Phils in Philly May 7-9, so I'm saying that our tinderbox pen (and the management who trusts it) are the only thing standing between the Mets and utter dominance of the 2012 Phils. Chris Young is big. What can I tell you. The man is enormous. He hasn't seen the Phils in five starts this year, but he had a brief but strong start against them in his debut for the Mets last April 5, going 5 1/3, giving up one run on five hits, walking four and striking out seven. Freddy Galvis is unavailable for this game, suffering as he is from a case of cheaticus caughticus, and I'm wondering maybe if he didn't catch it from Carlos Ruiz. Just thinking out loud here.

themetfairy Jul 04 2012 06:55 AM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

[youtube:1jsq5vsq]Sv6dMFF_yts[/youtube:1jsq5vsq]

Frayed Knot Jul 04 2012 06:58 AM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

So it seems incredible that someone like Cliff Lee can go winless for an entire half of a season. How does that happen? Well, three ways really: 1) he's been unlucky; 2) he's been unavailable; 3) he's not been very good More or less in that order. 1) Unlucky: during his first three starts in April (his ONLY three starts in April as it turns out) he got an ND giving up 1 ER in 6 IPs, then got a loss giving up 4 runs over 7, and then incredibly got an ND for a [u:c485ayvj]10 inning shut-out[/u:c485ayvj] that the Phils went on to lose 1-0 2) Unavailable: he went on the DL for a short stretch, not appearing for the next 20 Philly games 3) Not So Good: he came back to more or less the same tough luck that he had in April [NDs in a 2 runs over 6 game and a 1 run over 8] but that didn't last long. In his eight games since those two he's totaled 52.1 IPs while giving up 33 earned runs [5.67 ERA] and the most recent four starts have been the worst of it [7.30 ERA]. In his last outing he got thumped to the tune of 6 earned on 10 hits over 4.2 by the Marlins. Overall, games where he's allowed 4 or more earnies have been just about as common [6 times] as those of 3 or fewer [7] and during June that ratio was 4-1 But, hey, it's not like he's aging or signed to a lengthy and incredibly expensive deal or anything.

TransMonk Jul 04 2012 08:31 AM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

[youtube:31xv4bky]hI-D0ZqIqgQ[/youtube:31xv4bky]

Edgy MD Jul 04 2012 09:17 AM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

Really hoping to not see Turner at first today.

Swan Swan H Jul 04 2012 09:23 AM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

Edgy DC wrote: Really hoping to not see Turner at first today. No need to avert your eyes. Tejada-SS Murphy-2B Wright-3B Hairston-LF Duda-RF Davis-1B Torres-CF Nickeas-C Young-P

Edgy MD Jul 04 2012 09:26 AM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

Surprised, on the other hand, to see Murphy at second. Playing the hot hand, there.

Swan Swan H Jul 04 2012 09:34 AM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

Everywhere but behind the plate, but this is the logical game for Nickeas, considering it's a day game after night game, 90+ degrees, and Dickey going tomorrow night.

Ceetar Jul 04 2012 09:37 AM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

Swan Swan H wrote: Everywhere but behind the plate, but this is the logical game for Nickeas, considering it's a day game after night game, 90+ degrees, and Dickey going tomorrow night. Josh is young, day off Monday, Niese is hitting better than Nickeas, only six games before a break, I'd say just go for 6 with Thole but I guess Lee plays in too.

Swan Swan H Jul 04 2012 11:19 AM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

Two fly balls to center and a grounder to second. Young barely breaks a sweat in the first.

Swan Swan H Jul 04 2012 11:27 AM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

Lee starts off sharp as well, with a weak fly and two backwards Ks.

Swan Swan H Jul 04 2012 11:38 AM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

Ike with the first hit of the day, a dribbler that finds no-man's-land in front of Utley, but it's scoreless after two.

bmfc1 Jul 04 2012 11:38 AM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

The way I would do things, this is Young's last start until July 21. Nothing against him, but I want Dickey to pitch twice against the Nationals (remember that the All-Star break is four days long): July 13, @ ATL--Johan July 14, @ ATL--R.A. July 15, @ ATL--Niese July 16, off July 17, @ WSH--Gee July 18, @ WSH--Johan July 19, @ WSH--R.A. July 20, LA--Niese July 21, LA--Young July 22, LA--Gee July 23, WSH--Johan July 24, WSH--R.A. July 25, WSH--Niese.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 04 2012 11:39 AM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

Meanwhile, Darling is mixing metaphors as if he had mixed some Irish into his coffee at lunch. ("That's a play Lee usually makes in his pocket," e.g.)

Swan Swan H Jul 04 2012 11:42 AM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

Torres and Duda barely avert a drive-by in right center, but Duda being a foot and a half taller allows him to catch the ball without incident.

Swan Swan H Jul 04 2012 11:44 AM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

Young M.C. busting a move through three - 9 up, 9 down.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 04 2012 11:52 AM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

I know he's an athlete-- played basketball well enough to be all-Ivy-- but watching Chris Young run to first brings to mind a guy running while carrying a ladder upright.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 04 2012 11:52 AM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

Swan Swan H wrote: Torres and Duda barely avert a drive-by in right center, but Duda being a foot and a half taller allows him to catch the ball without incident. Victorino and Mayberry avoid the same sort of kerfuffle by looking at each other while Ruben's double drops and rolls between them.

TransMonk Jul 04 2012 12:02 PM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

Torres can play a little centerfield.

TransMonk Jul 04 2012 12:07 PM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

KABOOM!!! Scott Hairston crushes one.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 04 2012 12:09 PM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

CLIIIIIIIFF LEE! Busted.

Lefty Specialist Jul 04 2012 12:11 PM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

Darling, after Keith's Barbecued Lamb recipe: "He MARINATED that high fastball." Hilarious.

TransMonk Jul 04 2012 12:17 PM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

That was a pretty hot double-play!

Frayed Knot Jul 04 2012 12:19 PM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

Gary: "First ground ball double play Chris Young has gotten as a New York Met!" Me: "Wow!!" Even with CY's fly-ball tendencies and relative short track record in Blue & Orange, that's still kind of surprising.

Kong76 Jul 04 2012 12:20 PM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

Keith describing that recipe and talking about his herb garden had me laughing. I'd like to inventory that herb garden.

bmfc1 Jul 04 2012 12:23 PM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

It's Tejada the only Met keeping "the claw" alive?

Frayed Knot Jul 04 2012 12:28 PM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

David makes up for the liner he hit to Utley that would have made the Hairston HR into a 2R job earlier

themetfairy Jul 04 2012 12:49 PM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

And just like that we're behind....

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 04 2012 12:55 PM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

It's looking more and more like Young is the guy in this rotation you DO pull with a lead after 6.

Nymr83 Jul 04 2012 01:11 PM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

I prefer an 11-man pitching staff to a 12, but part of having one is that you don't put Batista in to start the 8th down a run and then pull him after a leadoff single.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 04 2012 01:17 PM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Jul 04 2012 01:22 PM

I would have been more more than okay with Hefner here in the 8th, with Byrdak for later, as necessary. Or, y'know, three (or more) pitchers to get three. Whatevs.

Nymr83 Jul 04 2012 01:21 PM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: I would have been more more than okay with Hefner here in the 8th, with Byrdak for later, as necessary. Well it looks like you'll get him... Along with Batista for ONE PITCH and Byrdak, 3 relievers used up in one inning and Terry is going to be fucked if this game goes long.

Edgy MD Jul 04 2012 01:23 PM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

Nymr83 wrote: I prefer an 11-man pitching staff to a 12, but part of having one is that you don't put Batista in to start the 8th down a run and then pull him after a leadoff single. Batista should be the guy you use for the ninth last night, no? Rauch last night and Hefner and Batista today. Some blessed day, Terry, it will be all clear. Either to you or to me.

Kong76 Jul 04 2012 01:24 PM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

Thus far, this gentleman from New York is wishing he abstained from this game. Courteously.

bmfc1 Jul 04 2012 01:24 PM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

Sandy--wake the hell up, stop bitching about the All-Start votes, and find at least two pitchers to replace these clowns.

Lefty Specialist Jul 04 2012 01:29 PM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

This bullpen is just killing this team. It's like Russian Roulette with no empty chambers.

Edgy MD Jul 04 2012 01:30 PM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

I don't think Sandy needs to find anybody. It remains, to my thinking, about more intelligently using the resources they've got. They've had disappointing bullpens most of the past decade. The personnel have changed plenty. The philosophy is what's wanting.

bmfc1 Jul 04 2012 01:35 PM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

Edgy: I agree with you on your main point--leave the starter in--but what would you have done differently today? Leave Young in to give up more homers? Shorty had to go to the bullpen and every single choice, other than Parnell and Byrdak, was bad.

Nymr83 Jul 04 2012 01:38 PM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

Edgy DC wrote: I don't think Sandy needs to find anybody. It remains, to my thinking, about more intelligently using the resources they've got. They've had disappointing bullpens most of the past decade. The personnel have changed plenty. The philosophy is what's wanting. I don't think I've been happy with a Mets bullpen since the days of Turk Wendell and Dennis Cook. Still, this year is worse than many others in terms of performance. The manager has also done a poor job utilizing the best guys in tied and 1-run games while utilizing the worse guys in games with bigger margins. That's been common in the last 10 years both for the Mets and league-wide I believe, but I at least feel its "caught up" to the Mets more this year.

themetfairy Jul 04 2012 01:51 PM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

At least this shitstorm is finally over.

metsguyinmichigan Jul 04 2012 02:00 PM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

So, um, is KRod still available?

Fman99 Jul 04 2012 02:48 PM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

Just woke up from my nap and read the box score. Bad bullpen, bad!

Edgy MD Jul 04 2012 02:49 PM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

bmfc1 wrote: Edgy: I agree with you on your main point--leave the starter in--but what would you have done differently today? Leave Young in to give up more homers? Shorty had to go to the bullpen and every single choice, other than Parnell and Byrdak, was bad. [list][*]Call up the Beato and send the Hefner down.[/*:m] [*]Use the Batista last night instead of today.[/*:m] [*]Use a better pitcher today. Perhaps Rauch, perhaps Beato. Perhaps Ramirez. Ramirez is available, right?[/*:m] [*]One of those guys gets the job done, for reason's sake, let him pitch another inning![/*:m][/list:u] If that fails, live with the results. (They were losing anyhow, and it's not like they came back.) Also consider calling up Elvin Ramirez, Matt Harvey, Josh Edgin, Colin McHugh. The answer is in hand, though.

bmfc1 Jul 04 2012 02:55 PM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

Well, one step was just taken: Hefner was sent down.

Edgy MD Jul 04 2012 03:01 PM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

[bigpurple:3bjotlyv]Welcome to the forum, Sandy! Day late, though![/bigpurple:3bjotlyv] (Honestly, though, when Hef went out for the ninth, he must've known he was a sacrificial lamb and he was done for as soon as the game ended.)

batmagadanleadoff Jul 04 2012 03:03 PM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

I woulda driven my BTTF Delorean and peered into my crystal ball to figger out which relievers woulda given up the least runs. Collins is either an idiot or under-resourced without his own Delorean.

Ashie62 Jul 04 2012 03:09 PM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

I'd give Beato a shot but would hope for better. DFA Batista already... Huston Street is available...fuck Bob Geren and his baseball life hack mentality..JUST GET HIM

Zvon Jul 04 2012 03:14 PM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

RUIZ![/bigpurple] Tho alot more went wrong than my nemisis's Gah!BOOM. But he put em up.

Mets – Willets Point Jul 04 2012 03:19 PM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

Ashie62 wrote: I Huston Street is available. Then we could see Huston Street on Houston Street.

Ashie62 Jul 04 2012 03:46 PM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

Mets – Willets Point wrote: Ashie62 wrote: I Huston Street is available. Then we could see Huston Street on Houston Street. Somehow that sounds creepy lol

G-Fafif Jul 04 2012 03:59 PM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

Kong76 wrote: Thus far, this gentleman from New York is wishing he abstained from this game. Courteously. Sit down Miguel! For god's sake Miguel, sit down! (And Tim. And Jeremy. And the rest of them.)

Edgy MD Jul 04 2012 05:21 PM Re: IGT, 7/4, NYM vs. PHI, The Fight for Freedom

Team lost this one as a unit. Cohesiveness.