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Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

metsguyinmichigan Jun 25 2012 04:53 AM

Per Rubin: the Mets designated for assignment Vinny Rottino in the early morning hours and called up southpaw Justin Hampson, 32, who was 5-4 with a 3.38 ERA in 79 appearances (one start) for the Rockies and Padres from 2006 to 2008. This season, he was 4-2 with a 2.13 ERA and two saves in 28 appearances with Triple-A Buffalo.

G-Fafif Jun 25 2012 05:40 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

Per Rubin: the Mets designated for assignment Vinny Rottino in the early morning hours Wake up Vinny, seems Sandy's got something to say to you It's the end of June and he'd like to send you to Buffalo Sorry that you've been DFA'd He really wishes that you could've stayed Oh Vinny, our bullpen couldn't suck much more...

metirish Jun 25 2012 06:24 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

That's gold

Edgy MD Jun 25 2012 06:38 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

This really underscores any disappointment I have in the leadership. To much protectionism. Rottino should have started at first yesterday. If not, there was no need to be carrying him (as they suddenly realized late last night. If they needed to get Turner in (protectionism), they could have put him at second where his bat isn't such a dropoff. (As it is, baked a big fat 0-4 cake.) They won't give Parnell a second inning, because I guess his arm is too precious (counterproductive protectionism), but they'll give a second one to Batista, because he's old, not long for the baseball world, and his arm is somehow more dispose-able. So he gets a save-the-bullpen stretch job (protectionism) in a the late innings of a tie game and a rubber match before a sellout crowd. Now they go for Hampson, so they get a second lefty-lefty matchup in the game, which will seemingly protect people, but will really just lead to more relievers used per game. Anywutz, welcome to the bigs, Justin Hampson. Sorry you caught me on a disappointed morning. I predict Hampson gets 38.

bmfc1 Jun 25 2012 06:49 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

The bench now has a too many middle IFs. Could use Pascucci so there's someone that is most likely to hit a 3-run homer (Nickeas, Turner, Q, Cedeno/Murphy, Nieuwenhuis/Torres).

Edgy MD Jun 25 2012 06:50 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

I really pooped in this thread. Sorry.

Ceetar Jun 25 2012 06:51 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

Edgy DC wrote: I really pooped in this thread. Sorry. intestinal discomfort?

Nymr83 Jun 25 2012 06:58 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

Too many relievers, not enough platoons/pinch-hitters is a common theme across the league these days. When the Mets say "bullpen help" they really mean "warm body with arm attached" because he isn't really going to HELP, is he? Given the number of guys who barely hit AND have adequate defensive replacements (catcher, 2B, sometimes SS/1B, outfielders) a bat like Pascucci would be more valuable than another reliever. Heck the Mets could go 11-man if they are willing to carry both Batista and Hefner for multiple inning stints (the remaining 4 would be Francisco, Parnell, Rauch, and Byrdak for now) and then have room for a positionless pinch-hit slugger (think Thome)

Edgy MD Jun 25 2012 07:04 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

Kinda, you know, get enough bats to force the other guy to burn through his bullpen. I read something yesterday that Bill James wrote: "Strategy comes to the fore when talent recedes." Work on getting the talent in place, have confidence in your talent, and back off on the strategy.

Ceetar Jun 25 2012 07:09 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

Nymr83 wrote: Too many relievers, not enough platoons/pinch-hitters is a common theme across the league these days. When the Mets say "bullpen help" they really mean "warm body with arm attached" because he isn't really going to HELP, is he? Given the number of guys who barely hit AND have adequate defensive replacements (catcher, 2B, sometimes SS/1B, outfielders) a bat like Pascucci would be more valuable than another reliever. Heck the Mets could go 11-man if they are willing to carry both Batista and Hefner for multiple inning stints (the remaining 4 would be Francisco, Parnell, Rauch, and Byrdak for now) and then have room for a positionless pinch-hit slugger (think Thome) While I don't deny I'd like a more righty power bat off the bench guy (I think I even advocated for it instead of Turner preseason, who really seems like he could/should be the odd man out) I'm not sure I believe Pascucci is necessarily capable enough for that. Easier said than done, but I think the payoff is better trying to figure out why Murphy/Tejada/Turner/Torres/Thole have 2 HRs total. I know none of them are even remotely sluggers, but preseason you'd probably figure you'd have 10-15 from them to this point right? That's not very much but an extra 10-60 runs is a decent uptick. It really plays in in games like this weekend, when the margin for error was so low that them capitalizing more on our errors than us theirs was the difference. compared to Friday when Davis knocked one over the fence for a sudden +3 that was awesome. (Stupid Oysters. "For appearing on Mets Extra, Ike Davis gets a gift certificate to the Grand Central Oyster Bar!" Thanks Ed Coleman..)

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 25 2012 07:30 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

Kinda, you know, get enough bats to force the other guy to burn through his bullpen. I read something yesterday that Bill James wrote: "Strategy comes to the fore when talent recedes." Work on getting the talent in place, have confidence in your talent, and back off on the strategy. Well, they don't really have the talent, at least, they can't hang with the best team in terms of talent with the 25 or 24 or 23 they run out there most nights.

Ceetar Jun 25 2012 07:38 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

Kinda, you know, get enough bats to force the other guy to burn through his bullpen. I read something yesterday that Bill James wrote: "Strategy comes to the fore when talent recedes." Work on getting the talent in place, have confidence in your talent, and back off on the strategy. Well, they don't really have the talent, at least, they can't hang with the best team in terms of talent with the 25 or 24 or 23 they run out there most nights. Maybe, maybe not. Where exactly did Cory Wade and Coby Appely or whatever the hell his name is come from? We did in fact chase CC in the 6th. 3.1 innings of bullpen work and the Yankees bullpen was present all weekend, they just didn't push the runners across despite drawing plenty of walks and some hits.

Edgy MD Jun 25 2012 07:44 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Well, they don't really have the talent, at least, they can't hang with the best team in terms of talent with the 25 or 24 or 23 they run out there most nights. I think they do if they're not giving first base to Turner or the bullpen to Batista.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 25 2012 07:54 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

Kinda, you know, get enough bats to force the other guy to burn through his bullpen. I read something yesterday that Bill James wrote: "Strategy comes to the fore when talent recedes." Work on getting the talent in place, have confidence in your talent, and back off on the strategy. Well, they don't really have the talent, at least, they can't hang with the best team in terms of talent with the 25 or 24 or 23 they run out there most nights. Maybe, maybe not. ... they just didn't push the runners across despite drawing plenty of walks and some hits. That's cuz the Mets are one of the worst HR hitting teams in the majors. And that's a lack of a talent. As Frankie Frank might'a said, maybe the Mets' chickens are coming home to roost.

Edgy MD Jun 25 2012 07:58 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

They no doubt could provide more in the power department --- but that's all the more reason to go with Rottino over Turner last night, no?

Ceetar Jun 25 2012 07:58 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

Edgy DC wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Well, they don't really have the talent, at least, they can't hang with the best team in terms of talent with the 25 or 24 or 23 they run out there most nights. I think they do if they're not giving first base to Turner or the bullpen to Batista. I dunno, are they really worse than the guys other teams run out there? I don't think so. Batista had a really bad start to the season but he actually hasn't been bad lately. Turner's only recently back from the DL. Problem was more that Ike was out. Ty Wigginton has a .314 OBP Jayson Nix also .314 OBP. They slug better than Turner though, but it seems like the Mets prioritized OBP..) ?#mets? bullpen has a 4.69 ERA in June. 7 HR and 26 BB. 1.54 K/BB rate. This is a decent tick better than April/May, but that may just be due to subtracting Acosta more than anyone actually pitching better. solution? More Parnell, less Batista who are the extremes in the K/BB dept. Rauch actually has a good K/BB rate too, though more because he walks no one. I would guess that means he should be used in clean innings so BABIP luck doesn't kill him?

Ceetar Jun 25 2012 08:04 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

Edgy DC wrote: They no doubt could provide more in the power department --- but that's all the more reason to go with Rottino over Turner last night, no? Is Rottino actually a power hitter? Doesn't seem like it. He hit 11 in the minors last year, but it was the PCL. Turner had 10 in the International League in 2010. Ike doing better should be a huge deal in the SLG dept. let's hope that's for real and he stops with the oysters. Theoretically the warmer weather should lead to Murphy and co poking one or two more out? Can we actually find a power hitting utility guy that we trust to not completely suck? particularly a MIer? Who's out there? It might not be a horrible idea to break the OBP mold with a .250/.310/.450 type guy that's going to going to capitalize on the "The Mets work counts, I can sneak a first pitch meatball here.." relievers.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 25 2012 08:06 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

Edgy DC wrote: They no doubt could provide more in the power department --- but that's all the more reason to go with Rottino over Turner last night, no? I suppose. But that just magnifies the Mets lack of power. Vinny Rottino?

Edgy MD Jun 25 2012 08:20 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

Vinny Fucking Rottino! Turner amplifies the Mets lack of power.

Ashie62 Jun 25 2012 09:51 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

If it comes to Pascucci to provide more power we are more fucked than I thought. Guy is an 11 year minor league fart in the wind.

Edgy MD Jun 25 2012 09:54 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

We were two farts away from sweeping this series.

Vic Sage Jun 25 2012 09:56 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

the Mets do have a pretty good RH power bat on the bench... it's just that he's busy starting in LF these days. There is no reason we should be carrying both Q and Cedeno, whose skill sets are almost identical. One needs to go in exchange for a bat.

Frayed Knot Jun 25 2012 10:10 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

Be nice if Vinny survives as a Met through the DFA process and lives to come back another day, but I sense some danger of overselling what his 6 hits in 32 ABs provided to the team (even if three of those hits were for XBs and he tossed in some walks) a batting rate which is pretty much in line if not somewhat exceeding his ML avgs elsewhere (scant though they may be). Yes Turner's 0-4 and slight misplay at 1st (the error was Dickey's) didn't help matters, but let's not act as if those were a given before the night started and were something sure to be topped by Rottino.

Edgy MD Jun 25 2012 10:25 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

I don't think his 0-4 and misplay were a "given." Of course not. I just think they were clearly more likely than they would have been with Rottino in the lineup. The truth is I'd have been just as likely to bench Cedeño in favor of Rottino, and Cedeño had two hits. The point is that any role he had on this team should've been to provide coverage against the likes of Sabathia. I just think between that and the bullpen usage, we lost a big series without putting our best foot forward. Of course Rottino could have gone 0-4 with two GiDPs. If we lose with our best horses, so be it. But over the long haul wouldn't you rather have him as your firstbaseman (or firstbaseman against lefties)?

Frayed Knot Jun 25 2012 10:43 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

Edgy DC wrote: I don't think his 0-4 and misplay were a "given." ... I just think they were clearly more likely than they would have been with Rottino in the lineup. The career .250 ML/.309 ml hitting 27 y.o was "clearly more likely" to hang up an oh-fer than the 32 y/o .188 ML/.295 ml guy? I'm not seeing that.

Edgy MD Jun 25 2012 10:50 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

I'd invite you to look at more stats. More splits. More realities.

Frayed Knot Jun 25 2012 11:07 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

Yes, I am aware of other stats, just not ones that are going to tell me what you're claiming they're going to tell me. Specifically I find that Rottino's ML stats are so sparse (being a career minor leaguer and all with ~250 career ML ABs and 32 this season prior to last night) that I can go back to the minor league portion of each player's career at which point I find that Turner had a higher BA (already mentioned) with virtually identical walk AND IsoP rates. Either way, nothing I see "clearly" shows me much of anything - particularly for a 4 AB stand. And look, I would have had no problem if Terry had started Vinny at 1B last night, my point is that I just don't see, given that Ike was out and a tough LHP on the mound, the clamor over starting Turner when, OMG, Vinny Rottino was available.

Edgy MD Jun 25 2012 11:25 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

There's no need to resort to a mischaracterization. I never OMG'd in my life.

Ashie62 Jun 25 2012 11:32 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

Edgy DC wrote: There's no need to resort to a mischaracterization. I never OMG'd in my life. I have!

Ashie62 Jun 25 2012 11:33 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

Edgy DC wrote: We were two farts away from sweeping this series. OMG! You are correct Sir..Few other series also.

Frayed Knot Jun 25 2012 01:20 PM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

Edgy DC wrote: There's no need to resort to a mischaracterization. I never OMG'd in my life. So apparently we're leaving this at: it's clear, it's just up to me to figure out why.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 25 2012 01:32 PM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

I think the argument is that if Rottino isn't to be trusted to back up at first base when a lefty pitches, so much so that Turner moves out of position instead, then he ought not to have been on the roster at all. It can also be argued that Rottino profiles better as a "first baseman" skill wise; his limited appearances this year at least suggest he can knock one out which after 5 games with the MFYs seemed like a good thing to try to get. Now, this part is a little second-guessy, but Turner did make a poor play and effed up a couple rallies all by himself last night.

Edgy MD Jun 25 2012 07:40 PM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

Yes that is what I mean to suggest. If he's not the better choice in that situation, then he really didn't belong on the roster. If you insist on seeing some of the data that should have compelled the Mets, Justin Turner's big league career vs. lefties: .230 / .317 / .290 // .607 in 208 plate appearances. =#FF8000]Vinny Rottino's big league career vs. lefties: .238 / .373 / .452 // .825 in 51 plate appearances. Winner: =#FF8000]Vinny Rottino, exceptionally large. __________ Justin Turner's big league 2012 vs. lefties: .217 / .275 / .283 // .557 in 51 plate appearances. =#FF8000]Vinny Rottino's big league 2012 vs. lefties: .200 / .355 / .480 // .835 in 31 plate appearances. Winner: =#FF8000]Vinny Rottino, even larger. __________ Justin Turner's minor league career: .309 / .373 / .442 // .815 in 1,190 plate appearances. =#FF8000]Vinny Rottino's minor league career: .295 / .363 / .423 // .786 in 4,418 plate appearances. Winner: Justin Turner, small. __________ Justin Turner's minor league numbers vs. lefties, 2005-2102: .320 / .386 / .432 // .818 in 723 plate appearances. =#FF8000]Vinny Rottino's minor league numbers vs. lefties, 2005-2102: .316 / .391 / .441 // .831 in 985 plate appearances. Winner: =#FF8000]Vinny Rottino, small. __________ Justin Turner's minor league numbers vs. lefties, 2010-2102: .275 / .349 / .412 // .760 in 284 plate appearances. =#FF8000]Vinny Rottino's minor league numbers vs. lefties, 2005-2102: .332 / .405 / .491 // .897 in 328 plate appearances. Winner: =#FF8000]Vinny Rottino, very large. __________ On top of that, =#FF8000]Rottino had eight big league games at first and 164 in the minors. Turner had seven in the bigs and one in the minors. Personally, I think sending a backup middle infielder with negligible big league power out there to start at first in a big rubber game on Sunday night with a sold out crowd is one of the hundred little ways a manager demoralizes his team.

Edgy MD Jun 26 2012 08:37 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

On the other hand, maybe Cedeño is playing to demonstrate that he's healthy, precipitating a trade to clear up the middle infield glut. 'Cuz there's suddenly a middle infield glut.

Vic Sage Jun 26 2012 10:56 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

well, if you bring back 2 middle infielders while currently carrying 4, yeah, you're gonna have a MI glut. They sent down Valdespin, right? So that still leaves Murphy/Turner at 2b and Tejada/Cedeno at SS, leaving the solid play of Quintanilla on the outside, looking in. Frankly, i'd rather carry him over Murphy at this point, but i don't think that'll happen.

Edgy MD Jun 26 2012 11:02 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

Problem is that Tejada's the only one with an option.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 26 2012 11:13 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

Tigers need a second baseman pretty bad. I'd trade the one of Muffy, Valdy, Turner, Cedeno who'd bring back the most. (Muffy, obviously)

Gwreck Jun 26 2012 11:47 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

Tigers wouldn't take Murphy; they can ill-afford another below-average fielder as they've already got Cabrera and Fielder on the corners. I bet they'd give us a sack of baseballs or two for Valdespin or Cedeno.

Fman99 Jun 26 2012 08:00 PM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

Edgy DC wrote: We were two farts away from sweeping this series. I don't remember that stat from Moneyball.

Edgy MD Jun 27 2012 09:04 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

Murphstache, asked about being traded: You’re not going to get a whole lot of return on your investment if they move me and I’m not swinging the bat well. So I’d say no.

Swan Swan H Jun 27 2012 12:16 PM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

Rottino claimed by the Indians, per Andy Martino on the Twitterator.

Edgy MD Jun 27 2012 12:21 PM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

Well, that's gonna cut into his post-season share.

Ceetar Jun 27 2012 12:23 PM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

Edgy DC wrote: Well, that's gonna cut into his post-season share. or double it if the Indians make a run..

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 27 2012 12:27 PM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

Schwinny released by Injuns to add Rottino.

Edgy MD Jun 27 2012 12:32 PM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

It's all part of our grand plan to get the Schwinster back.

Edgy MD Jul 01 2012 08:12 PM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

Vinny come back Any kind of fool could see Sandy was wrong And he just can't live without you

sharpie Jul 03 2012 08:01 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

Frankie to return? http://mlb.sbnation.com/2012/7/3/313461 ... ets-rumors

MFS62 Jul 03 2012 09:14 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

sharpie wrote: Frankie to return? http://mlb.sbnation.com/2012/7/3/313461 ... ets-rumors Sandy would have a lot of 'splainin' to do if he brought back a sizeable contract like that (without addressing some other needs - like some righthanded hitting help first). Later

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 03 2012 09:22 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 03 2012 09:30 AM

We don't need relief pitching that bad.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 03 2012 09:28 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

MFS62 wrote: sharpie wrote: Sandy would have a lot of 'splainin' to do if he brought back a sizeable contract like that (without addressing some other needs - like some righthanded hitting help first). Well, it's not all that sizeable. According to Baseball Reference, Frankie is a free agent after the 2012 season, and his salary for 2012 is $8 million. So if the Mets got him back, they'd owe him $4 million (roughly) for the remainder of the year. I'd be more concerned about the players the Mets would be giving up than I would the $4 million. I think we should send the Brewers something similar to a package of Adrian Rosario and Danny Herrera.

Edgy MD Jul 03 2012 09:44 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

Maybe if he does poorly he can void his contract with moral turpitude again.

Ceetar Jul 03 2012 09:48 AM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

would be a pretty sizable upgrade over say Miguel Batista. I doubt they'd have to give up much for him.

Nymr83 Jul 05 2012 01:47 PM Re: Bullpen help, Vinny headed out

Keith Law (yeah, I've been citing him a lot lately) on today's ESPN Baseball Today podcast talks about the Mets... Doesn't advocate rushing Harvey as a starter because "the rotation isn't a problem" but thinks it would be an interesting idea if the Mets wanted to limit his innings to call him up as a reliever for the rest of this year. He also strongly advocates calling up Familia now, Familia is struggling as a starter in AAA and Keith says all the scouts he's talked to don't see him as a longterm starter but asked to pitch one inning he could dial his already impressive heat up around 98 and give the Mets more bullpen help than they are going to find in a trade or from some castoff. He also sees Mejia as reliever. I think its a bit early for Harvey, I'd let him start until mid-august then maybe come help as a reliever for september callups. I love the Familia idea though.