Master Index of Archived Threads


Redemption?

Redeemed

1 votes

Progressing

2 votes

Indifferent

2 votes

Still a Tool

9 votes

A Bigger Tool Than Ever

1 votes

Edgy MD Jun 22 2012 09:30 AM

Read a couple of redemption storylines this morning. Really? A great basketball player played great basketball. Has the narrative arc actually changed?

Ceetar Jun 22 2012 09:40 AM Re: Redemption?

"One of the best basketball players" of course the narrative has changed. he's a proven winner now. The media has always wanted to rave about him, but the feel around him post-decision was negative so it got spun as the 'unclutch' argument. Now that he's proven the critics wrong, they can lavish him with praise. (Kobe's like 33 now.) I actually heard one of the ESPN radio guys claim LeBron and the Heat were excelling because of they were more desperate to win in part because of the pressure they put on themselves with the comments/decision/etc. Amusing to me that they criticize him for the way he went about it, then suddenly that's the reason he's winning? Pretty much condones the behavior then doesn't it?

Edgy MD Jun 22 2012 09:48 AM Re: Redemption?

Yeah, check it out. A-Rod is totally not a tool anymore!

Mets – Willets Point Jun 22 2012 09:53 AM Re: Redemption?

I want to select "indifferent" because I'm indifferent but it's phrased that LeBron James is indifferent. He probably cares a lot.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 22 2012 09:54 AM Re: Redemption?

I could care less.

Edgy MD Jun 22 2012 09:56 AM Re: Redemption?

Yeah, I guess I could have done better there. It's meant to suggest that. "He has an indifferent moral profile, as far as sports celebrities go, neither a good one nor a bad one."

TransMonk Jun 22 2012 10:13 AM Re: Redemption?

There's still a pro basketball league?

Edgy MD Jun 22 2012 10:18 AM Re: Redemption?

Yeah, I had a friend writing to me telling me I absolutely had to watch last night. Bleh.

metirish Jun 22 2012 10:28 AM Re: Redemption?

Didn't watch more than a few minutes of this tripe......I did flick through and heard the ABC/ESPN sideline reporter say to James "with all you have been through the last two years how does this feel".....wtf has he been through?, makes a boatload of money for fucks sake.....

Frayed Knot Jun 22 2012 10:29 AM Re: Redemption?

I'd say that I'm certainly indifferent to the saga of LeBron James. Now I just wish more folks who owned microphones were similarly indifferent. I'd also say how it's funny how the general public seems more removed than ever from the NBA even as the media seems more drawn to it, but I know that can easily be explained in just four letters. And finally I'd say that the star-driven nature of the NBA was summed up quite neatly by a headline I read this morning: James, Heat Win Championship. Player first, team as the afterthought; perfectly said.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 22 2012 10:40 AM Re: Redemption?

I think it's great that basketball season is finally over. LeBron seems to have been a douche about the process of changing teams, and I'm sure his handlers and the douchebags at ESPN only made it seem more so, but that cock owner in Cleveland was a dick himself and had no business stoking this kind of hatred.

Edgy MD Jun 22 2012 10:45 AM Re: Redemption?

metirish wrote: Didn't watch more than a few minutes of this tripe......I did flick through and heard the ABC/ESPN sideline reporter say to James "with all you have been through the last two years how does this feel".....wtf has he been through?, makes a boatload of money for fucks sake..... Yeah, Deadspin went after Pat Riley similarly: Look at what Riley said to Dan LeBatard: One word to describe the last two years, Pat? "Harrowing," he says. Oh, fuck you, Pat. You're a half-retired multimillionaire. You didn't spend the last two years in a fucking POW camp. Go to hell. My interest in the NBA begins and ends with my desire to party with Kevin Love.

SteveJRogers Jun 22 2012 10:50 AM Re: Redemption?

While not the attention whore on the level of ARod or LeBron, once John Elway walked off with his first Super Bowl championship it was then deemed "alright" to start putting his name with the all-time legends in NFL history. Before it was "But he's lost three Super Bowls badly" and whatever other excuses people wanted to make for why they did not include Elway among the best QBs in history. Ditto Peyton Manning, his title seemingly validated anyone who took him in the never ending "Manning-Brady" debate over whom you'd take as your starting QB (never mind that Little Brother has two Super Bowl wins OVER Tom Brady, so...ummm...does that mean Eli should be taken over both?) and almost became a discussion ender as Manning had become the Dan Marino of his generation, all the stats and none of the championship glory. Then he did, and you could put him up against the "winners" at his position. All that to say, I'm pretty indifferent to the "does this elevate Player X in the conversation of all-time great all-time greats" debates. Despite how often media members, or MFY fans, want to think it does. It's a good piece of window dressing on a career, but not a referendum on a career.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 22 2012 10:54 AM Re: Redemption?

If you're a jerk, winning a title doesn't make you any less of a jerk. I don't know enough about LeBron to have a firm opinion of whether or not he's a jerk, but from what little I do know, it's a real possibility.

Ceetar Jun 22 2012 11:44 AM Re: Redemption?

Didn't watch more than a few minutes of this tripe......I did flick through and heard the ABC/ESPN sideline reporter say to James "with all you have been through the last two years how does this feel".....wtf has he been through?, makes a boatload of money for fucks sake..... He meant "With all that we've put you through" I'd say that I'm certainly indifferent to the saga of LeBron James. Now I just wish more folks who owned microphones were similarly indifferent. I'd also say how it's funny how the general public seems more removed than ever from the NBA even as the media seems more drawn to it, but I know that can easily be explained in just four letters. And finally I'd say that the star-driven nature of the NBA was summed up quite neatly by a headline I read this morning: James, Heat Win Championship. Player first, team as the afterthought; perfectly said. I'm indifferent to James. I have an intense hatred for the ESPN created saga. But as far as basketball goes, LeBron is one of the best players in the league, and when I'm watching a sport (which I didn't) I don't have a real rooting interest in, I like to see the most talented players playing because it's the absolute highest level. I did seemingly just agree I'd go to a Liberty game though, if my wife agrees. oops. Anyone know a good place to lookup tv ratings? Is that even public info? After getting into a fight with Colin Cowherd yesterday I'd kinda like to add up all the baseball games played and point out that probably more people watched baseball than the NBA finals.

Ashie62 Jun 22 2012 01:09 PM Re: Redemption?

Most of us have something he doesn't, an education.

Ceetar Jun 22 2012 01:21 PM Re: Redemption?

Ashie62 wrote: Most of us have something he doesn't, an education. I'd rather have the multi-million dollar bank account.

Nymr83 Jun 22 2012 01:26 PM Re: Redemption?

Edgy DC wrote: Read a couple of redemption storylines this morning. Really? A great basketball player played great basketball. Has the narrative arc actually changed? Those stories were written the day after "the decision" and filed away for whenever they won.

Frayed Knot Jun 22 2012 01:28 PM Re: Redemption?

Ceetar wrote: Anyone know a good place to lookup tv ratings? Is that even public info? After getting into a fight with Colin Cowherd yesterday I'd kinda like to add up all the baseball games played and point out that probably more people watched baseball than the NBA finals. Cowherd is going to trash baseball no matter what you say or what facts you come up with so that's probably a waste of time.

Ceetar Jun 22 2012 01:32 PM Re: Redemption?

Frayed Knot wrote: Ceetar wrote: Anyone know a good place to lookup tv ratings? Is that even public info? After getting into a fight with Colin Cowherd yesterday I'd kinda like to add up all the baseball games played and point out that probably more people watched baseball than the NBA finals. Cowherd is going to trash baseball no matter what you say or what facts you come up with so that's probably a waste of time. oh, I'm aware of that. I wanted it for my own personal curiosity. I wasn't going to respond to Coward.

metirish Jun 22 2012 01:33 PM Re: Redemption?

Ratings "@Ourand_SBJ: ESPN: ABC NBA Finals: 5-game overnite avg was 11.8, highest five-game avg since '04. Game 5 did a 12.6 & record 40.3 in Miami. 39.8 in OKC."

metirish Jun 22 2012 01:35 PM Re: Redemption?

World Series ratings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Seri ... on_ratings NBA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_B ... en_ratings Actually I don't think this is what Ceetar is looking for. you want individual MLB games?

Ceetar Jun 22 2012 01:44 PM Re: Redemption?

metirish wrote: World Series ratings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Seri ... on_ratings NBA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_B ... en_ratings Actually I don't think this is what Ceetar is looking for. you want individual MLB games? Yeah, specifically last night's. Was just curious if there were more total viewers that viewed baseball than basketball.

metsmarathon Jun 22 2012 01:56 PM Re: Redemption?

there were only 6 games in baseball last night.

Ceetar Jun 22 2012 02:01 PM Re: Redemption?

metsmarathon wrote: there were only 6 games in baseball last night. yeah, was a Thursday so not a great night for it. Actually, wonder how the Marlins did in relation.

metirish Jun 22 2012 03:41 PM Re: Redemption?

Josh Levin ponders the dumbness of the sports media in relation to James, much like we are here. Will LeBron James’ First Title Make Sports Commentary Less Dumb?

Ashie62 Jun 22 2012 07:51 PM Re: Redemption?

Ceetar wrote: Ashie62 wrote: Most of us have something he doesn't, an education. I'd rather have the multi-million dollar bank account. how about both lol

MFS62 Jun 22 2012 09:16 PM Re: Redemption?

Ashie62 wrote: Most of us have something he doesn't, an education. That reminds me of what was said about the players on the NCAA Championship winning Marquette basketball team. "They can do everything with a basketball except autograph it". Later

Frayed Knot Jun 22 2012 09:35 PM Re: Redemption?

Josh Levin ponders the dumbness of the sports media in relation to James, much like we are here. Will LeBron James’ First Title Make Sports Commentary Less Dumb? One sentence in the first paragraph of that piece says it perfectly: "The nightly poking and prodding of LeBron James was everything that’s wrong with 21st-century sports opinioneering: The insistence that every moment of every big game is legacy-defining, that missed shots reveal a lack of heart and character, that losing a game makes you a loser." A week and a half ago James was the chokiest choker who ever choked and today no one could resist talking about how quickly he can be on a par with Michael Jordan (assuming he's not already).

Ceetar Jun 22 2012 10:13 PM Re: Redemption?

I'm starting to think that this sort of stuff is better off ignored than publicly eye-rolled at. at least from within the sport. (This being mainly a baseball forum, I'm not really worried about the intricacies of basketball coverage) But specific to LeBron, instead of criticizing the narrative, maybe write about the Jordan comparison from the get-go. This isn't in relation to Levin's piece or anything, just sorta thinking out loud. I saw a lot of people here, there and everywhere that seem to agree that ESPN/etc is a joke with it's LeBron (and by tomorrow, Tebow right?) dumbness. Instead of "Is Sports commentary dumb", write the piece that you think they should be writing. I know it's not always easy to reach the same audience as ESPN, but if there's a void in coverage, writing good stuff to fill that void should make everyone happy right? This is the same as all of everyone complaining about WFAN. yeah, we should just not listen. But we want sports talk radio. Instead of complaining maybe we should be recording podcasts or making our own stuff? I dunno, just a thought.

Ashie62 Jun 23 2012 03:08 PM Re: Redemption?

Call me silly..I havent had sports radio on since 1998. There is some sort of choice.

themetfairy Jun 23 2012 04:32 PM Re: Redemption?

Ashie62 wrote: Call me silly..I havent had sports radio on since 1998. There is some sort of choice. This. I only listen to WFAN when there's a game on.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 24 2012 06:20 AM Re: Redemption?

Me too. I quit WFAN in 2005, when my commute got longer. WFAN in small doses was tolerable, but for longer periods, it would have been maddening.

Ceetar Jun 24 2012 07:22 AM Re: Redemption?

Ashie62 wrote: Call me silly..I havent had sports radio on since 1998. There is some sort of choice. That's not the point. Lots of people want sports talk. I'd rather listen to sports discussion than music, both during my commute and occasionally at work as background noise or when I'm futzing around the house. Should I stop wanting that because the people doing it in NY are so bad at it?

metsmarathon Jun 24 2012 12:25 PM Re: Redemption?

sadly, i fear the people doing it in new york are, on average, far better at it than the rest of the country.

Ceetar Jun 24 2012 12:36 PM Re: Redemption?

metsmarathon wrote: sadly, i fear the people doing it in new york are, on average, far better at it than the rest of the country. Low bar indeed. I've been wondering if we still need 20/20 sports updates. or traffic updates. Does the internet/twitter/gps/smartphone world make those things basically a waste of airtime?

Benjamin Grimm Jun 24 2012 02:36 PM Re: Redemption?

Traffic updates are still very useful. I don't have a smart phone, but I do have a car radio. And even if I did have a smart phone, I wouldn't be reading traffic tweets while I was driving.

Ceetar Jun 24 2012 03:00 PM Re: Redemption?

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Traffic updates are still very useful. I don't have a smart phone, but I do have a car radio. And even if I did have a smart phone, I wouldn't be reading traffic tweets while I was driving. curious though..how often does a traffic update on the radio cause you to alter the route? It's not just the smart phone thing (although if you're navigating it'll help you without even looking at it) because all that info is accessible _before_ you get on the road. Google will even guess at which is the best route given current traffic conditions. But maybe it is useful. I'm really not sure. the same with the sports updates. I feel like talk radio needs some innovation or change. just thinking of which direction it could go. Maybe instead of recapping news that's hours and hours old, an update on 'top stories' as suggestions or teasers about what the discussion topics of the show are? Use it as a way to direct the flow and topics of the show?

SteveJRogers Jun 24 2012 04:01 PM Re: Redemption?

Ceetar wrote: This is the same as all of everyone complaining about WFAN. yeah, we should just not listen. But we want sports talk radio. Instead of complaining maybe we should be recording podcasts or making our own stuff? I dunno, just a thought. I'm working on that... On the flip side though, there isn't that much similarity between the garden variety sports show caller or even hosts themselves and your average forum troll or Tweep (I believe that's what they are calling people who tweet now) who can now tweet death threats to famous persons' accounts. I mean your example of Cowherd is the perfect example of trolling to get a reaction from callers and electronic users (email/Twitter). Oh he might believe exactly what he's saying, but not in the Chris Russo "just having fun by tweaking Yankee fans" sort of way, but he is saying what he's saying to get a reaction from his listeners. The problem though lies in the format structure where there isn't back-and-forth debate with ESPN's shows. Granted there is the Francesa "hand wave" but I find that locally there is more room for a nice 3-5 minute back-and-forth conversation while on ESPN's national shows it's just "I'll read your tweet or email, or I'll place your voice mail message, or you have only 30 seconds to make a point." and there is no back-and-forth. Granted yes the back and forth most likely would just be agreeing to disagree, but at least it's an effort to have a debate rather than "Here is feedback that we've been getting."