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Oklahoma, OK?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 09 2012 10:00 AM

Baseball America reports Buffalo have had enough of losing, will likely go steady with the Blue Jays next year, meaning the Mets' 2013 AAA team likely winds up... in Oklahoma City. [url]http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/minors/business-beat/2012/2613872.html

MFS62 Aug 09 2012 10:17 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Makes sense that Toronto would want to have their AAA team in Buffalo. Its about a $20 cab ride (depending on the current rate of exchange). But I hope if that happens, the Mets will find a AAA city closer than OKC. Later

TransMonk Aug 09 2012 11:21 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

1327 mile flight from OKC to NYC. Wowsers!

Ceetar Aug 09 2012 11:23 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Maybe they can steal Scranton from the Yankees if they lose Buffalo.

Gwreck Aug 09 2012 11:33 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

The contract between the Yankees and Scranton isn't up at the end of the year. As stated in the articles, these are the cities whose AAA contracts expire at the end of the year: Buffalo and Rochester in the International League; and Albuquerque, Fresno, Las Vegas, Memphis, Nashville, New Orleans and Oklahoma City in the Pacific Coast League. By default, the Mets' affiliate will be in one of those cities. The article explains why it's not likely to be Albquerque, Fresno, Memphis, Nashville or Rochester.

Ceetar Aug 09 2012 11:34 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Gwreck wrote: The contract between the Yankees and Scranton isn't up at the end of the year. As stated in the articles, these are the cities whose AAA contracts expire at the end of the year: Buffalo and Rochester in the International League; and Albuquerque, Fresno, Las Vegas, Memphis, Nashville, New Orleans and Oklahoma City in the Pacific Coast League. By default, the Mets' affiliate will be in one of those cities. The article explains why it's not likely to be Albquerque, Fresno, Memphis, Nashville or Rochester. there argument against Rochester is tentative at best.

HahnSolo Aug 09 2012 11:41 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

I don't know the answer to this, but can a AA city "move up" to AAA? Why does it simply have to be an existing AAA city?

Gwreck Aug 09 2012 11:53 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Ceetar wrote: there argument against Rochester is tentative at best. It is obvious that if Buffalo doesn't want to re-sign with the Mets, then Rochester is the best option. Pressure's on, Sandy. I don't know the answer to this, but can a AA city "move up" to AAA? Why does it simply have to be an existing AAA city? For the same reason that an AAA team can't just become a major league team. Those 30 AAA franchises are the ones who are admitted to their respective leagues. Note that AAA franchises can and do move from one city to another.

bmfc1 Aug 09 2012 12:21 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Minor league musical chairs and the Mets lose, again (remember New Orleans?).

Ceetar Aug 09 2012 12:27 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

bmfc1 wrote: Minor league musical chairs and the Mets lose, again (remember New Orleans?). may lose again. They were reported to have lost Buffalo two years ago if I recall too.

bmfc1 Aug 09 2012 12:34 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Objection sustained; let the record reflect that the Mets "may" lose Buffalo.

Frayed Knot Aug 09 2012 12:46 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK? Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Aug 09 2012 12:48 PM

HahnSolo wrote: I don't know the answer to this, but can a AA city "move up" to AAA? Why does it simply have to be an existing AAA city? It can and does happen (although not often) because, as GWreck says, only a certain number of cities (ownerships really) have a contract with the Int'l League and the PCL. So something like Binghamton simply 'moving up' to become a AAA city (I'm assuming you're thinking something along these lines) could only come about if the IL were to opt for Binghamton instead of one of their existing cities/groups. Round Rock, Texas (essentially Austin) was the last city I remember doing that. Nolan Ryan owned the AA Round Rock team and wanted to put a new AA team in Corpus Christi -- except that rules prevent one ownership from controlling two teams in the same league. So he solved that by buying the AAA team that was located in Edmonton, Alberta and worked out an arrangement to transfer them to Round Rock (probably wasn't too hard to convince the PCL of the benefits of that move). At the same time he transfered the AA team from RR, Tex to CC, Tex and, presto, he had one team at each level. Then there's also the problem of meeting the requirements for each level of play. Binghamton might not have the minimum size of either its market or stadium to qualify for the Int'l Lg. Brooklyn would have the city size but not the stadium size and then there's the whole problem with the Yanx having territorial rights (just because they agreed to a single-A team doesn't mean they'd agreed to let a AAA team in "their" city). The Round Rock/Austin area had grown enough in recent years to where it became AAA sized but Ryan still had to expand the existing stadium to get it up to AAA standards as well as arrange for a new one to be built in Corpus Christi in order to make all the above moves work.

Ceetar Aug 09 2012 12:48 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

If the Mets do end up in the PCL I'm going to enjoy the overreaction to some of the Mets higher-up position guys suddenly having breakout years.

Frayed Knot Aug 09 2012 01:36 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

The PCL certain is a more hitting-friendly/pitching-tough league than the IL so everyone has to keep that in mind when evaluating those on both sides of the ball. However that generalization doesn't apply evenly to every stadium. New Orleans was actually more pitcher friendly than not. Not sure about OKC

Ashie62 Aug 09 2012 04:08 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Put them in Roswell New Mexico..The 51'ers

Frayed Knot Aug 21 2012 02:57 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Rochester, previously the only IL AAA franchise aside from Buffalo with its affiliation agreement up for grabs beyond this year and said to be considering replacing the Twins, instead re-ups with the with the Twins. This means that the list of AAA affiliate choices going forward includes Buffalo plus and any one of eight different PCL cities: Alburquerque - current agreement = Dodgers for the last four years running but also for a number of years before that. Agreement said to be working well. Fresno - Giants since 1999. Obvious logical local affiliation with Giants, although city hit hard by recession and attendance down significantly. Las Vegas - Blue Jays since 2009. Jays expected to opt for move to Buffalo. Vegas said to be the most out-of-date stadium in the PCL Memphis - Long-time Cardinals affiliate in the middle of Cardinals country. Unlikely to change. Nashville - Brewers. Change called unlikely. Possibility of new stadium in the works makes market attractive. New Orleans - Marlins since Mets left. Change possible Oklahoma City - Houston since 2011. Change possible. Tuscon - Padres. Whole franchise is in question since it's owned by outgoing Padres owner Jeff Moorad and had been in Portland, Oregon through 2010. The two-week "Free Agency" period when teams can begin negotiations with un-attached affiliates begins on Sept 16

Mets – Willets Point Aug 21 2012 03:10 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Speaking of Triple A affiliates, here is a trivia question. What do these Triple A baseball team have in common (MLB affiliates in parentheses)? Memphis Redbirds (St. Louis) Indianapolis Indians (Pittsburgh) Lousiville Bats (Cincinnati) Nashville Sounds (Milwaukee) Columbus Clippers (Cleveland) Sacramento River Cats (Oakland) I stole this question from Slate's Hang Up and Listen podcast, so recuse yourself from the trivia question if you've heard it before.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 21 2012 04:24 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

state capital teams

Chad Ochoseis Aug 21 2012 05:02 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Memphis and Louisville aren't. AAA teams located on the same interstate highway as the parent club? Memphis and St. Louis are both on I-55, Columbus and Cleveland are both on 271. Not certain about the others.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 21 2012 05:28 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Chad Ochoseis wrote: Memphis and Louisville aren't. I totally sorta knew that.

Mets – Willets Point Aug 21 2012 06:08 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Nope, but Chad is on the right track with the relationship of the minor league cities to the major league cities.

bmfc1 Aug 21 2012 06:34 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Here's an idea that won't happen because the Wilpon's are in financial trouble: build a AAA-sized ballpark in Suffolk and put the Mets AAA there. The Mets own the team so they aren't moving, it's close to home, and it helps build/reinforce the Mets fanbase in Suffolk County. Heck, call them the Ducks. But since the Wilpons don't have money, the Mets JV will be 3/4 of the way across the country, playing in a league with inflated stats.

Frayed Knot Aug 21 2012 06:37 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

bmfc1 wrote: Here's an idea that won't happen because the Wilpon's are in financial trouble: build a AAA-sized ballpark in Suffolk and put the Mets AAA there. The Mets own the team so they aren't moving, it's close to home, and it helps build/reinforce the Mets fanbase in Suffolk County. Heck, call them the Ducks. But since the Wilpons don't have money, the Mets JV will be 3/4 of the way across the country, playing in a league with inflated stats. Read some of the above posts and see the several reasons why your scheme CAN'T happen - none of which having anything to do with the Wilpon finances.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 21 2012 06:54 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Mets – Willets Point wrote: Nope, but Chad is on the right track with the relationship of the minor league cities to the major league cities. All are in the demarcated major-league "territory" of their respective parent clubs?

Frayed Knot Aug 21 2012 06:57 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Mets – Willets Point wrote: Nope, but Chad is on the right track with the relationship of the minor league cities to the major league cities. All are in the demarcated major-league "territory" of their respective parent clubs? Milwaukee/Nashville is the stumbling block here - and for most of the other connections I can think of.

seawolf17 Aug 21 2012 06:57 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Mets – Willets Point wrote: Nope, but Chad is on the right track with the relationship of the minor league cities to the major league cities. All are in the demarcated major-league "territory" of their respective parent clubs? All of them could beat the Mets right now?

bmfc1 Aug 21 2012 06:59 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Frayed Knot wrote: Here's an idea that won't happen because the Wilpon's are in financial trouble: build a AAA-sized ballpark in Suffolk and put the Mets AAA there. The Mets own the team so they aren't moving, it's close to home, and it helps build/reinforce the Mets fanbase in Suffolk County. Heck, call them the Ducks. But since the Wilpons don't have money, the Mets JV will be 3/4 of the way across the country, playing in a league with inflated stats. Read some of the above posts and see the several reasons why your scheme CAN'T happen - none of which having anything to do with the Wilpon finances. I know--but it would be nice if it could happen.

Ceetar Aug 21 2012 07:39 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

on the other hand, like I need another excuse to go to Vegas?

Mets – Willets Point Aug 22 2012 10:41 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Mets – Willets Point wrote: Speaking of Triple A affiliates, here is a trivia question. What do these Triple A baseball team have in common (MLB affiliates in parentheses)? Memphis Redbirds (St. Louis) Indianapolis Indians (Pittsburgh) Lousiville Bats (Cincinnati) Nashville Sounds (Milwaukee) Columbus Clippers (Cleveland) Sacramento River Cats (Oakland) I stole this question from Slate's Hang Up and Listen podcast, so recuse yourself from the trivia question if you've heard it before. One more hint: it would be impossible for any team that affiliated with the Mets to join this group.

MFS62 Aug 22 2012 10:46 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

You can't get a good pastrami sandwich there? Only other thing I can think of is that I was stuck in their airport at least once. Later

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 22 2012 10:54 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Mets – Willets Point wrote: Mets – Willets Point wrote: Speaking of Triple A affiliates, here is a trivia question. What do these Triple A baseball team have in common (MLB affiliates in parentheses)? Memphis Redbirds (St. Louis) Indianapolis Indians (Pittsburgh) Lousiville Bats (Cincinnati) Nashville Sounds (Milwaukee) Columbus Clippers (Cleveland) Sacramento River Cats (Oakland) I stole this question from Slate's Hang Up and Listen podcast, so recuse yourself from the trivia question if you've heard it before. One more hint: it would be impossible for any team that affiliated with the Mets to join this group. D'oh. Minor League cities larger than their major-league parents.

Mets – Willets Point Aug 22 2012 11:10 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK? Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Aug 22 2012 01:56 PM

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Speaking of Triple A affiliates, here is a trivia question. What do these Triple A baseball team have in common (MLB affiliates in parentheses)? Memphis Redbirds (St. Louis) Indianapolis Indians (Pittsburgh) Lousiville Bats (Cincinnati) Nashville Sounds (Milwaukee) Columbus Clippers (Cleveland) Sacramento River Cats (Oakland) I stole this question from Slate's Hang Up and Listen podcast, so recuse yourself from the trivia question if you've heard it before. One more hint: it would be impossible for any team that affiliated with the Mets to join this group. D'oh. Minor League cities larger than their major-league parents. Correct!

Edgy MD Aug 22 2012 11:33 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

One more reason the reserved territory rule of Major League Baseball is destroying America. All six of those teams should unaffiliate and start a third Major League. Or second. Or whatever.

batmagadanleadoff Aug 22 2012 11:38 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Then maybe we'd get a brand new Major League NL team in New York City. Lacking their own history, initially, the new team might build a Tom Seaver Rotunda. Or erect a statue of Cleon Jones cradling the last out of the '69 series.

Gwreck Aug 22 2012 11:49 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

The "bigger AAA affiliates than their parent" is really just a semantics thing because that's determining population based on city limits, not metropolitan area. The actual city of Cincinnati may be smaller than the city of Louisville but the metro area is a million people larger in Cincinnati.

Swan Swan H Aug 22 2012 11:53 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Edgy DC wrote: One more reason the reserved territory rule of Major League Baseball is destroying America. All six of those teams should unaffiliate and start a third Major League. Or second. Or whatever. Imagine how much Jason Bay could be overpaid if there were teams in a third league bidding for his services.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 12 2012 07:40 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Looks like the Mets will play in Las Vegas next year, as the Astros took OKC and the Brews re-upped with Nashville. Excellent work, Jeff.

soupcan Sep 12 2012 07:44 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Vegas? That's just stupid.

Ceetar Sep 12 2012 07:45 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Looks like the Mets will play in Las Vegas next year, as the Astros took OKC and the Brews re-upped with Nashville. Excellent work, Jeff. Toronto hasn't actually inked Buffalo yet. You never know. There was really nothing the Mets could do though.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 12 2012 07:52 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Ceetar wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Looks like the Mets will play in Las Vegas next year, as the Astros took OKC and the Brews re-upped with Nashville. Excellent work, Jeff. Toronto hasn't actually inked Buffalo yet. You never know. There was really nothing the Mets could do though. Except, you know, be a desirable partner. Instead they are the last kid picked for dodgeball, again. I know in the grand scheme by itself this is no big deal, but nevertheless its the kind of thing that just gnaws away my fandom. I'm already standing behind a team that fucked up its new stadium, can't score runs, owes everyone money, dies every July, wastes money on shitty players, etc etc... does it also have to be the organization that other cities want no part of? Cut corners like this and it begins to show.

Vic Sage Sep 12 2012 07:53 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

are people really sad or anxious about the loss of Buffalo as our AAA affiliate? Really? BUFFALO? I've seen a game at Buffalo folks and we won't be losing much. who cares where the AAA affiliate is located? Are we the ones buying the airline tix for the CitiField shuttle? Don't worry; we'll figure out a way to get them here if they belong here. And if a major leaguer needs a short injury rehab, they can play in Brooklyn. I remember watching Shinjo play there once. Vegas would be great for the AAA team; something to do there that doesn't involve me losing large stacks of cash. Lots of retirees from back east, too.

Ceetar Sep 12 2012 08:10 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Vic Sage wrote: are people really sad or anxious about the loss of Buffalo as our AAA affiliate? Really? BUFFALO? I've seen a game at Buffalo folks and we won't be losing much. who cares where the AAA affiliate is located? Are we the ones buying the airline tix for the CitiField shuttle? Don't worry; we'll figure out a way to get them here if they belong here. And if a major leaguer needs a short injury rehab, they can play in Brooklyn. I remember watching Shinjo play there once. Vegas would be great for the AAA team; something to do there that doesn't involve me losing large stacks of cash. Lots of retirees from back east, too. It's not a big deal, and made less so by the taxi-squad rules in the new CBA, but if say Ruben Tejada wakes up with a stiff back, you can get a guy here from Buffalo in time for a game, not so in Vegas. From an excuse to go to Vegas again it's great as a fan. But it's supposedly one of the worst AAA stadiums, and the PCL is a crap place to get a good feel for hitters since it's so hitter friendly. Buffalo won't be "happy" with the Blue Jays either. The Bisons may be lashing out at the Mets, but the problems the Bisons have are Buffalo/economy/population based, not Mets attractiveness based. The 5-6 games on SNY a year were probably better for them than anything the Blue Jays can do.

Vic Sage Sep 12 2012 08:26 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

if say Ruben Tejada wakes up with a stiff back, you can get a guy here from Buffalo in time for a game, not so in Vegas. Tejada sits and Cedeno plays. And Turner plays behind him. that's what a bench is for. the guy from AAA can be there the next day. And there are guys in the 40-man in AA, too, and they're right down the coast. It is NOT a big deal. But it's supposedly one of the worst AAA stadiums, and the PCL is a crap place to get a good feel for hitters since it's so hitter friendly. yeah, Buffalo was a crap stadium, too... and it's in BUFFALO! And yeah, PCL numbers are skewed, but they can be corrected for in any analysis. DePodesta can show you how.

Ceetar Sep 12 2012 08:42 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Vic Sage wrote: But it's supposedly one of the worst AAA stadiums, and the PCL is a crap place to get a good feel for hitters since it's so hitter friendly. yeah, Buffalo was a crap stadium, too... and it's in BUFFALO! And yeah, PCL numbers are skewed, but they can be corrected for in any analysis. DePodesta can show you how. Buffalo's actually a decent stadium. Nothing wrong with Buffalo, it's dying, but it has some character. the more 'correcting' you do for minor league numbers the less confident I am in how it translates to major league production is all.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 12 2012 08:51 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Vic, it's not the loss of Buffalo as a place that causes me angst, or even a comparison of Buffalo and Vegas as places, it's the idea of the Mets once again losing the game of musical chairs because of every team in baseball, none has a reputation for giving less of a shit for their partners than the Mets. The organization ought to be embarrassed but I'm sure its not.

seawolf17 Sep 12 2012 08:59 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Vic, it's not the loss of Buffalo as a place that causes me angst, or even a comparison of Buffalo and Vegas as places, it's the idea of the Mets once again losing the game of musical chairs because of every team in baseball, none has a reputation for giving less of a shit for their partners than the Mets. The organization ought to be embarrassed but I'm sure its not. This.

bmfc1 Sep 12 2012 09:02 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Right--it's about making your own decisions for the best interests of the team rather than taking whatever happens to be left over.

metsguyinmichigan Sep 12 2012 09:12 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

My brother-in-law's parents live in Vegas, and Jeff goes to a 51s game when he's in town. Seems like it. But I'd also like the team closer. The Tigers seem to do well having Toledo about an hour away, and the Midwest-A team here in Grand Rapids about two hours away. The team here draws well, and I get to talk to the folks running it once in a while. One time I asked why would they not try to be a AA or AAA team. They answer was interesting. The price to join the league was crazy -- I think she said $80 million, and this was a while ago -- and they didn't think they could draw too many more fans than they do now. So there really wasn't much of an incentive from the team's point of view.

seawolf17 Sep 12 2012 09:41 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

metsguyinmichigan wrote: My brother-in-law's parents live in Vegas, and Jeff goes to a 51s game when he's in town. Seems like it. But I'd also like the team closer. The Tigers seem to do well having Toledo about an hour away, and the Midwest-A team here in Grand Rapids about two hours away. The team here draws well, and I get to talk to the folks running it once in a while. One time I asked why would they not try to be a AA or AAA team. They answer was interesting. The price to join the league was crazy -- I think she said $80 million, and this was a while ago -- and they didn't think they could draw too many more fans than they do now. So there really wasn't much of an incentive from the team's point of view. "Plus, then there's always the chance we get stuck with the Mets. Fuck that."

Fman99 Sep 12 2012 10:17 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

I've enjoyed seeing the AAA Mets here in Syracuse the last few years, as a divisional rival to the Chiefs. That being said, I never picked a Chiefs game to attend based on the opponent, except that I avoid going when the baby MFYs are in town because it draws out the goons. Que sera sera.

Edgy MD Sep 12 2012 10:22 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Looks like the Mets will play in Las Vegas next year, as the Astros took OKC and the Brews re-upped with Nashville. Excellent work, Jeff. Toronto hasn't actually inked Buffalo yet. You never know. There was really nothing the Mets could do though. Except, you know, be a desirable partner. Instead they are the last kid picked for dodgeball, again. I know in the grand scheme by itself this is no big deal, but nevertheless its the kind of thing that just gnaws away my fandom. I'm already standing behind a team that fucked up its new stadium, can't score runs, owes everyone money, dies every July, wastes money on shitty players, etc etc... does it also have to be the organization that other cities want no part of? Cut corners like this and it begins to show. There's the hats. Don't forget the hats.

Frayed Knot Sep 12 2012 10:53 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Vic, it's not the loss of Buffalo as a place that causes me angst, or even a comparison of Buffalo and Vegas as places, it's the idea of the Mets once again losing the game of musical chairs because of every team in baseball, none has a reputation for giving less of a shit for their partners than the Mets. The organization ought to be embarrassed but I'm sure its not. The thing is though, the NYM-Binghamton relationship is one of the longest running in not just the Eastern League but in all of the minors as was the one with Tidewater/Norfolk one by the time it ended, so it's not like two-year-and-out minor league relations has been a long-standing problem with the team. Now has something changed recently that makes AAA teams in the eastern half of this country not want us? I dunno. There were vague stories that the Norfolk group felt un-loved by NYM brass, but I also read that had nothing to do with it, that it was a case of that ownership group buying up several teams in the mid-atlantic area which were all Baltimore affiliates and so switching to the Birds gave them a whole vertical alignment of minor league teams and just one organization to deal with. Now is this Buffalo switch some kind of anti-Wilpon move? Or was hooking up with much-closer Toronto simply a more attractive offer, especially seeing as how those two cities have been practically sharing an NFL team lately? I agree that the musical chairs thing is far from ideal, but I don't know that it's anything more than bad timing that's causing it.

Ceetar Sep 12 2012 11:20 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Frayed Knot wrote: Now is this Buffalo switch some kind of anti-Wilpon move? Or was hooking up with much-closer Toronto simply a more attractive offer, especially seeing as how those two cities have been practically sharing an NFL team lately? I agree that the musical chairs thing is far from ideal, but I don't know that it's anything more than bad timing that's causing it. I don't remember what the Norfolk bit was about, but that was a while ago now anyway, this is only the second time the Mets have been dumped. (The shuffle forced them to New Orleans, The Mets didn't want to renew that and grabbed Buffalo, which presumably is part of how the Blue Jays got stuck with Vegas) Buffalo is choosing to blame the Mets for it's problems that the Blue Jays won't fix. It's simply a refusal to look in the mirror.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 12 2012 12:59 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Frayed Knot wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Vic, it's not the loss of Buffalo as a place that causes me angst, or even a comparison of Buffalo and Vegas as places, it's the idea of the Mets once again losing the game of musical chairs because of every team in baseball, none has a reputation for giving less of a shit for their partners than the Mets. The organization ought to be embarrassed but I'm sure its not. The thing is though, the NYM-Binghamton relationship is one of the longest running in not just the Eastern League but in all of the minors as was the one with Tidewater/Norfolk one by the time it ended, so it's not like two-year-and-out minor league relations has been a long-standing problem with the team. Now has something changed recently that makes AAA teams in the eastern half of this country not want us? I dunno. There were vague stories that the Norfolk group felt un-loved by NYM brass, but I also read that had nothing to do with it, that it was a case of that ownership group buying up several teams in the mid-atlantic area which were all Baltimore affiliates and so switching to the Birds gave them a whole vertical alignment of minor league teams and just one organization to deal with. Now is this Buffalo switch some kind of anti-Wilpon move? Or was hooking up with much-closer Toronto simply a more attractive offer, especially seeing as how those two cities have been practically sharing an NFL team lately? I agree that the musical chairs thing is far from ideal, but I don't know that it's anything more than bad timing that's causing it. Well, bad timing and and being unprofitable, lousy, no fun to be around. II think if the Mets could convince some convenient city it can be a good partner, they'd be less likely to look at Baltimore and Toronto as superior alternatives.

Edgy MD Sep 12 2012 01:05 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

The Mets have announced that they've extended their working agreement with Sally League stalwarts in Savannah, so....

Frayed Knot Sep 12 2012 03:43 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Lousy? - Well if that were the deciding factor then I don't think teams would be running towards Baltimore six years back or Toronto now unless proximity and/or integration were also involved. Unprofitable? - Yeah, although I don't know how that affects the minor league club since those are independently owned. If nothing else the lack of FA cash at the top level would lead a team in the Mets situation to concentrate more on the draft No fun to be around? - I don't really know what that means. Attendance sucks here because the ML team 200/400/1,000 miles away isn't exciting enough? Like I said, there may be something here that NYM mgmt aren't doing right, although if there is I haven't seen it spelled out yet. Or it may be something that we're blaming Jeff Wilpon for simply because blaming Jeff Wilpon makes us feel better whether whatever is going on is actually his fault or not.

Edgy MD Sep 12 2012 03:52 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Eastwood Blames Whole "Chair Thing" on Jeff Wilpon

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 12 2012 07:18 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

I'm intentionally not being too precise here. The point was it'd just be nicer to be a fan of the Mets if it were the kind of organization a AAA city would be proud to be associated with, not one to whom they're so indifferent and/or willing to cashier. And, let's face it, the Mets by virtue of their own indifference to developing players over the years, more or less broadcasts that they're an organization you don't want to get stuck with, especially when it comes to AAA. In four years at Buffalo they've given the fans up there two last place and two 5th place finishes, and only one winning record (76-68 in 2010). If I'm Buffalo I'd want more. Not to mention the team we're being dumped for has a rep for one of the best systems in the minors.

Vic Sage Sep 12 2012 09:38 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

If I'm Buffalo I'd want more If i'm Buffalo, I want to be someplace else... anyplace else.

Ceetar Sep 12 2012 10:28 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Vic Sage wrote: If I'm Buffalo I'd want more If i'm Buffalo, I want to be someplace else... anyplace else. Buffalo really ain't that bad.

Vic Sage Sep 12 2012 10:32 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

It was a one-horse town... and then the horse died.

Gwreck Sep 17 2012 06:26 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Vegas is official, per Burkhardt tweet.

Frayed Knot Sep 17 2012 07:08 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Gwreck wrote: Vegas is official, per Burkhardt tweet. I'm surprised that Moe Green agreed to sell. On the other hand, maybe not so surprised.

Ashie62 Sep 17 2012 08:22 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

The Mets AAA Manager in Vegas should be Wally Backman

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 18 2012 10:43 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Apparently the Mets AAA pitching coach Mark Brewer won't be making the move. Reading up on Vegas, the stadium is a steamy shithole which city officials would like to replace with something else. With the 51s' home stadium of Cashman Field outdated and lacking amenities of other Triple-A facilities — players take batting practice in a small cage adjacent to the parking lot and there is a lack of proper rehabilitation equipment, among other shortcomings — aligning with Las Vegas comes with a risk.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 18 2012 10:54 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

A "steamy shithole" of a AAA stadium for the Mets new farm team? Why am I not surprised? At least they'll still have a AAA affiliate.

Vic Sage Sep 18 2012 11:42 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

http://lv51s.milbstore.com//store_conte ... t_id=14162 but they have cool merchandise! I prefer aliens to hairy bovines. And i'm sure any players that had played (and lived) in Buffalo will be THRILLED to be so close to the Vegas strip instead, even if the stadium sucks. Although i'm sure the hitters will he happier than the pitchers.

Frayed Knot Sep 18 2012 12:27 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Vegas officials would like to replace the stadium except that Vegas got caught up in the whole wealth via borrowed money and artificially inflated real estate values worse than most places and apparently the city fathers didn't put away enough of their graft money into a rainy day fund, so now they can't. The deal is for the minimum two years so, as in New Orleans, they're going to ride it out there for the time being and see how the landscape looks down the road. It's not an ideal situation, but also not a major obstacle. And besides, just think of how much incentive NYM AAA players will have to get away from the lousy facilities an into the big leagues now!

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 18 2012 12:38 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

What's happening is that the city is reluctant to extend the lease for the park as requested by a group trying to buy the team. This wouldn't impact the Mets if they were to get away in 2 years but the story leaves you with the impression that baseball isn't thought of too fondly there and that they know the issue is a substandard park.

G-Fafif Sep 18 2012 12:44 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Cashman Field was once Major League, literally. In 1996, the Oakland A's called Cashman Field home for the first six games of the regular season due to construction delays in their home stadium. The games marked the first time ever that a Major League Baseball season opener was held at a minor league park.

metirish Sep 18 2012 12:50 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

From the comments section of the 51s site announcing the deal BrooklynDave1 This is cheap baseball for a cheap owner family who does not want to go out and spend the money on quality players. It is tough these days being a New York Mets fan. Thank you for this lame product you call baseball. The Mets need to make Wally Backman their manager instead of Terry Collins. Brian Krysz Folks get ready for losing, boring, baseball thanks to MLB lamest GM Sandy Alderson BrooklynDave1 , come join us here at the CPF.

Edgy MD Sep 18 2012 02:41 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

I may be wrong, but I think we've had Brooklyn Dave back at the MOFo. "Cheap" isn't really the way it is. If I remember BD correctly, he played that song a lot, but the owners spent themselves into a corner. Foolish, uncreative, shortsighted, too loyal to MLB, too stupid with Madoff, too in bed with Madoff, unappreciative of the asset the team is, dishonest with the fans, dishonest with themselves. --- these are all much fairer criticisms. Now they're forced to be cheap, but getting stupid in combating that label is arguably what got them in this mess.

Frayed Knot Sep 18 2012 02:58 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

'Bay Ridge Dave' was likely the MoFoite you had in mind. He became even more of a presence (and even more of an idiot) after this place split off. Anyway, whoever he is, the move to Vegas has nothing to do with "cheapness" unless you want to take the indirect path that being forced to reduce payroll at the major league team is causing minor league affiliates not want to deal with them. Except that it's not like this team is much worse than the ones that were finishing below .500 with near MLB-high payrolls throughout much of the 2000s and, if anything, a de-emphasis on the ML payrolls should be reflected in a more build-from-within model that would benefit their minor league clubs in the years to come. That he sums it all up with the standard Backman comment just adds to the lack of imagination here.

Frayed Knot Sep 18 2012 03:08 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: What's happening is that the city is reluctant to extend the lease for the park as requested by a group trying to buy the team. This wouldn't impact the Mets if they were to get away in 2 years but the story leaves you with the impression that baseball isn't thought of too fondly there and that they know the issue is a substandard park. I wonder if that means that the group trying to buy the team is doing so with the intention of keeping it in Lost Wages or moving it elsewhere. Either way, I've never been convinced of the idea of LV as a major league quality baseball town. It has nothing to do with the whole gambling question that supposedly haunts all the sports leagues either, I just think the population is too new, too transplanted, too transient, and would be too otherwise distracted - hell, the city is built on distraction - to ever build a true fan-base big enough and loyal enough to support a top sports team, particularly for an everyday, summer sport like baseball. And now that the 'fastest growing US city' bloom is off the rose and its economy exposed as largely built on speculation (again, that whole purpose of the city thing) there is even less to recommend it.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 18 2012 06:16 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Yeah, apparently the lower level team in Reno is more successful.

The Second Spitter Sep 18 2012 06:56 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

This is likely to be a transitional arrangement like NO, right? How long is the deal for?

Edgy MD Sep 18 2012 07:00 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Two or four years. I think AAA agreements tend to be for two years and the Las Vegas one definitely is. It may be transitional, but both organizations will act otherwise.

The Second Spitter Sep 18 2012 07:07 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Cool. Get your 51's glow-in-the-dark baseball now. The "LV" logo is shit, but the "Alien Head" is the shit, especially the Stars and Stripes one. The baseball stitching on the forehead kills me.

Frayed Knot Sep 18 2012 08:01 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Yes, it's a two-year agreement. All minor league agreements are for two years or for multiples of two. In this case they'll take the short one and see how the situation is come this time of year 2014. The problem this time around wasn't just that Buffalo wanted a change but that they did so in a year when so few others cities (and almost none in the east) had expiring agreements.

MFS62 Sep 19 2012 09:19 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Playing in the PCL can be an ego boosting experience for hitting prospects and ego deflating experience for pitching prospects. Later

Frayed Knot Sep 19 2012 12:34 PM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

MFS62 wrote: Playing in the PCL can be an ego boosting experience for hitting prospects and ego deflating experience for pitching prospects. Especially so when Vegas is your home stadium from what I understand.

Edgy MD Oct 11 2012 07:43 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

The Mets Transaction Log wrote: 10/04/12: New York Mets recalled Kirk Nieuwenhuis from Las Vegas 51s. I guess that makes it all real.

Ceetar Oct 11 2012 07:49 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Edgy DC wrote: 10/04/12: New York Mets recalled Kirk Nieuwenhuis from Las Vegas 51s. I guess that makes it all real. What's the philosophy on that. I saw that recalled some guys from Binghamton too. what's the difference which roster they're not playing on this winter?

MFS62 Oct 11 2012 07:58 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Its the start of "Firm Up Your 40 Man Roster Before the Rule V Draft" Time. It is the second favorite season of year for baseball fans. (Well, maybe tied with second with the free agent signing and trading seasons.) Later

Ceetar Oct 11 2012 08:01 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

MFS62 wrote: Its the start of "Firm Up Your 40 Man Roster Before the Rule V Draft" Time. It is the second favorite season of year for baseball fans. (Well, maybe tied with second with the free agent signing and trading seasons.) Later Those guys are already on the 40 man. I guess it's probably just notekeeping "these guys are going to major league camp" etc.

Chad Ochoseis Oct 11 2012 09:09 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

The Second Spitter wrote: Cool. Get your 51's glow-in-the-dark baseball now. The "LV" logo is shit, but the "Alien Head" is the shit It took a while, but I just made the connection between the team name, the alien logo, and Area 51.

Ceetar Oct 11 2012 09:11 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

[url]http://theropolitans.com/2012/09/mets-move-triple-to-las-vegas-inherit.html

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 11 2012 09:12 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Holy shit-- is that Jar Jar Binks? Are we going to be following/rooting for a team with Jar Jar Binks mascot-age?

Edgy MD Oct 11 2012 09:40 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Cosmo, a fan favorite of all ages, returned to Earth and completed his 12th season as the the Mascot for the Las Vegas 51s (2001-12). Cosmo is a survivor of a spaceship crash who spent time at "Area 51" and was a baseball phenom on his home planet of Koufaxia. Cosmo makes numerous appearances at elementary schools, businesses and charity functions. For more information regarding Cosmo, call the 51s office at (702) 943-7200. PERSONAL: Cosmo loves hot dogs, Cracker Jack and popcorn. His favorite music includes Elton John's "Rocket Man," David Bowie's "Ziggy Stardust," Styx's "Mr. Roboto," and the Space Jazz Trio. His favorite movies and TV shows include Men in Black (I , II & III), all episodes of the Star Wars saga, Lost in Space and Star Trek.

metsmarathon Oct 11 2012 09:52 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

is that a knockoff jar jar binks? ugh!

Edgy MD Oct 11 2012 10:01 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Seeing as Phantom Menace came out in 1999, if Cosmo truly debuted in 2001, Jar Jar would have already been revealed as a bad horse to bet on, culturally.

metsmarathon Oct 11 2012 11:08 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

why would hte mascot not be a grey? i don't get it at all.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 26 2012 07:54 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Well, it's a shotgun wedding, the stadium's an inconvenient shithole, it'll likely mess up our hitters and pitchers, and we have no designs to stay. On the plus side, you get Wally Backman! BASEBALL: Mets brass visit Las Vegas, talk about new relationship with 51s By Paul Delos Santos (contact) Friday, Oct. 26, 2012 | 2 a.m. New York Mets General Manager Sandy Alderson likens the Mets’ new affiliation with the Las Vegas 51s to a game of Old Maid that his team had lost, albeit by destiny. Last month, after the Toronto Blue Jays decided to move their Triple-A affiliate from Las Vegas to Buffalo, N.Y., the Mets and 51s were left to forge a partnership. They did, announced it Sept. 17 and formally introduced the deal Thursday. “It wasn’t, honestly, by choice,” Alderson said at a news conference Thursday at Cashman Field. “There was a mutuality of interest, but we were destined to be together.” Whether Alderson is genuinely excited about that destiny is open to debate. But given how many high-level Mets executives, including manager Terry Collins and Chief Operating Officer Jeff Wilpon, came to Las Vegas for the news conference, the Mets — at least with a strong poker face — showed great interest in the new relationship. “There was a perception that this was a marriage of necessity,” Alderson said. “To some extent it was, but at the same time, we’re happy to be here. The best way to express that was to have a strong showing (from the big league club). “This is not something we’re going to have to endure. We view it as a positive thing. We want Las Vegas to feel, like we do, that it’s a constructive relationship.” Chuck Johnson, Las Vegas 51s general manager and vice president of marketing, preferred to call the new partnership fate. “Fate is a wonderful way to say it,” Johnson said. “It’s fantastic for us to have the relationship with the Mets.” From an organizational standpoint, having a Triple-A affiliate in Las Vegas presents new challenges for the Mets — including travel arrangements for player promotions and demotions. The biggest may come in the form of switching Triple-A leagues. The Mets are moving to the hitter-happy Pacific Coast League from the, by comparison, pitcher-friendly world of the International League. Developmentally, being in the PCL could be a boon for the Mets at the plate. Last season, the 51s finished tied for first in the PCL with a .298 batting average. The Mets, on the other side, struggled and saw their offense hit .249 for the year — a number that all PCL teams eclipsed. “We stopped hitting,” Collins said. “It’s important to send some guys here to produce runs. I’m anxious to see how they do here. If they can hit, they’ll put up big numbers and this team will be successful. “If you look at the guys who are big players in the coast league, they’re big players in the majors.” On the flip side, Alderson and Collins showed no concern about their pitchers — long considered the strength of the Mets farm system — losing confidence in the PCL. Being a pitcher in the Pacific Coast League “makes you tougher. It makes you fight,” Collins said. “You’re not going to have easy outings, but that’s what the big-league level is all about — grinding it out. To get experience in this ballpark and league, it’ll make pitchers better.” The Mets brass also talked about their Triple-A facilities. Cashman Field has been a big point of discussion after the 51s received a new 10-year lease this month. Collins, who played and managed previously in the PCL, said the field wasn’t greatly different from when he first stepped foot at Cashman Field. Johnson admitted Cashman could use a few improvements, including indoor facilities for the players. He reiterated, however, that the fan experience — at least from a viewing standpoint — was still up to par. “Cashman Field is a beautiful place to play,” Johnson said. Alderson wasn’t overly critical of the facilities, stating, “We need to live in this place before we make suggestions and demands.” Talks have begun about the potential of the Mets playing a spring training game in Las Vegas, and neither side would say whether the relationship would last past the two years. Johnson remains confident a long-term relationship between the Mets and Las Vegas could happen, given the high volume of New York tourists and transplants in the valley. “We’re one of the top tourist destinations in the world, and we can make this relationship a long-term one,” Johnson said.

Frayed Knot Oct 26 2012 07:58 AM Re: Oklahoma, OK?

Johnson admitted Cashman [stadium] could use a few improvements, including indoor facilities for the players. I know, I hate it when places force you to use those outdoor toilets.