Master Index of Archived Threads


The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

metirish Aug 14 2012 04:34 PM

Division in the Red Sox club house........ Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership Boston Red Sox players blasted manager Bobby Valentine to owners John Henry and Larry Lucchino during a heated meeting called after a text message was sent by a group of frustrated players to the team and ownership in late July, three sources familiar with the meeting told Yahoo! Sports. The owners called the meeting for Boston's off-day in New York on July 26 after first baseman Adrian Gonzalez, texting on behalf of himself and some teammates, aired their dissatisfaction with Valentine for embarrassing starting pitcher Jon Lester by leaving him in to allow 11 runs during a July 22 start. It was the latest incident in a season's worth of bad relations bubbling between Red Sox players and Valentine. Gonzalez and Dustin Pedroia were among the most vocal in the meeting, in which some players stated flatly they no longer wanted to play for Valentine, the sources said. The tenor of the 2 p.m. meeting at The Palace hotel in New York turned ugly almost immediately, according to the sources, whom Yahoo! Sports granted anonymity because they were not authorized to speak about internal matters. Not all of the Red Sox players attended the meeting, the sources said, highlighting the chasm that exists not only between some players and Valentine but among players in the clubhouse. The perception that Valentine is being scapegoated unfairly to divert attention from mediocre performances by star players exists among some players, according to sources. Red Sox general manager Ben Cherington confirmed the meeting. Although he declined to provide specifics about what was said, he told Yahoo! Sports: "The intent of the meeting was to provide a forum for people to express whatever frustration needed to be expressed at a time during the season when things were not going exactly the way we wanted to on the field in hopes that we could put whatever issues were there aside and focus on playing games the rest of the season. That was the intent of the meeting. That was the focus of ownership. It was a productive meeting. "Since then, we have not gone on the run we were supposed to." Ownership has not wavered in its support of Valentine since the meeting, and the sources said players have accepted that Valentine will remain manager for at least the rest of the season. The Red Sox doubled down on Valentine over the last week despite the perception that his first year as Boston manager has been an abject failure. Boston, with an opening day payroll of $173.2 million, is 57-59 and sits 11 games back of the first-place Yankees and 5½ behind the second wild card. The Red Sox's last sub-.500 season was in 1997. Through a spokesman, the team and Valentine declined comment. Eight days ago, besieged by questions about Valentine's present and future, Red Sox general manager Cherington told reporters: "Bobby is our manager, and we're not considering anyone else. He's as committed to managing the team as he ever has been, and we're committed to him and trying to do everything we can to support him and make this work." [Also: Tim Brown: Angels could miss playoffs if pitching doesn't improve] Henry emailed a statement to Boston media members that echoed the sentiment. "To blame Bobby Valentine for the Red Sox being .500 at this point in the season," he wrote, "is simply wrong." Some of the Red Sox's biggest names disagree. Issues that have inflamed players range far and wide. Leaving in Lester, a well-respected figure in the clubhouse, to get blasted for 11 runs and four home runs against Toronto soured players already beaten down by Valentine's managerial style. Valentine uttering "Nice inning, kid" to rookie third baseman Will Middlebrooks after he made a defensive blunder – an episode to which Valentine admitted on WEEI radio – only furthered the animus toward the 62-year-old, who is managing in the major leagues for the first time since 2002. Since spring training, players have chafed at Valentine's careless – and occasionally self-serving – interactions with the Boston media, which his predecessor, Terry Francona, handled adroitly. "I don't think it's that uncommon for complaints to be made during the season," Cherington told Yahoo! Sports. "I'm not going to comment specifically on those complaints. Our owners felt, given where we were at that time in the season, given the collective frustration, we had not accomplished what we wanted to. It was time to get together and hash things out. There were no ultimatums issued. There were concerns expressed. Some very positive things expressed, too. We felt that it was an opportunity to get things off people's chests and move forward." From the beginning of the Red Sox's courtship of Valentine this offseason to the double-barreled votes of confidence last week, the match of the hard-nosed Bobby V with the laissez-faire Boston clubhouse seemed tenuous at best. It has proven far worse, personified best perhaps by a picture circulating around via text message, according to a fourth source. Pedroia, notorious among teammates for his wit and humor, is in the foreground with a giddy smile, his tongue wagging and both thumbs up. Next to him is allegedly Valentine, face down on a table, apparently asleep. A caption accompanies the picture: "Our manager contemplating his lineup at 3:30 p.m." A general lack of respect for Valentine has pervaded the clubhouse throughout the season. It may have peaked two days after the meeting, on July 28, when Francona entered the Red Sox's clubhouse as an ESPN analyst. He started talking with Pedroia, his most strident loyalist. Other players soon joined the conversation, which lingered for 45 minutes. Francona apologized the next day. The Red Sox's tumultuous year started with their collapse last September, followed by the team declining to re-sign Francona. After general manager Theo Epstein left to run the Chicago Cubs, Cherington, one of his assistants, took control of the team – until Lucchino wrested the managerial hire from him. Ownership picked Valentine and Cherington rubber-stamped it, hopeful the organization could grow cohesive over the two-year span of Valentine's contract. Instead, the Red Sox have splintered, not a shock considering Valentine's history of divide-and-conquer management. For all of his supposed strategic genius, Valentine wore out his welcome managing the Texas Rangers and New York Mets because of his willingness to napalm personal relationships. It led to a decade-long exile from the major leagues, most of which he spent in Japan. Valentine returned no different a manager. He barely talks with some of the coaches on his staff, several of whom remain Francona supporters. The trade of Kevin Youkilis, the World Series fixture who first exposed fractures between the players and Valentine, devolved into a public-relations mess. Then there are the oddities, like Valentine devising a plan to never play outfielder Carl Crawford more than four days in a row because of an elbow that may need surgery, only to abandon the idea less than a week later. Certainly the concoction of losing and an unfamiliar style has hurt Valentine's standing with players. Ownership remains in Valentine's corner, with Henry saying in his statement eight days ago: "We have been nothing but supportive of him inside and outside the clubhouse." The support, according to the sources, baffles those against Valentine, who wonder why the meeting was called if it wasn't going to change anything. During the meeting, the players told Henry and Lucchino that part of the disconnect comes from Valentine spending excessive time in his office. He'll retreat there again tonight, when Boston takes on Baltimore at Camden Yards, still wearing a Red Sox uniform, still running one of baseball's great teams, survivor of a mutiny. For now. (AP) http://sports.yahoo.com/news/bobby-vale ... alez-.html

Edgy MD Aug 14 2012 07:18 PM Re: Life Goes On: Continuing Careers of Ex Mets - 2012

Wow.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 14 2012 07:51 PM Re: Life Goes On: Continuing Careers of Ex Mets - 2012

I thought from the start that Bobby would succeed there but he'd have to do it with his guys. Will be interesting to see who goes where this offseason.

Edgy MD Aug 14 2012 08:08 PM Re: Life Goes On: Continuing Careers of Ex Mets - 2012

I believe that too. But it's like it's war if you ain't his guys up there. That's a tough sell. And it's not like Pedroia is a lump of oversalaried dead wood, but he is having a bad year. Sending around mocking pictures of your boss is not cool under any circumstances.

metirish Aug 15 2012 06:37 AM Re: Life Goes On: Continuing Careers of Ex Mets - 2012

I can see a lot of guys getting shipped out of there this off-season, that or they fire Bobby, and ownership seems adamant he's the guy. In fact they way some of the players are acting would reinforce the idea that they got away with everything and anything previously, one reason Lucchino wanted a strong personality as manager. Got to say that Francona has acted like a complete dick here too, apparently he has pulled that clubhouse routine a few times this season, under the guise of his espn gig, not cool at all.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 15 2012 10:59 AM Re: Life Goes On: Continuing Careers of Ex Mets - 2012

Time to make this its own thread. In the latest Sox soap opera, blame is widespread By Peter Abraham, Globe Staff Bobby Valentine has made plenty of mistakes this season. He is too honest for his own good when it comes to discussing the players with the media, telling the truth about them complaining about playing time (Kelly Shoppach) or their minor injuries (Carl Crawford). If somebody makes a mistake, he doesn't pretend everything is fine. Terry Francona was good at covering up and often times looked ridiculous defending the indefensible. But clearly he had a good handle on how fragile the egos were in that clubhouse. Valentine also is too much of an adherent to the idea that if a player has a problem, the player will come see him. After eight years under Francona, who was the definition of a players' manager, Valentine needed to cross the bridge more than halfway. Maybe not as far as Francona did, but more than he has. Perhaps the biggest mistake Valentine made was failing, until recently, to forge closer ties with his coaching staff. That one is not entirely his fault given that some of the coaches weren't willing to give him a chance from the start. In retrospect, Valentine probably should have demanded more coaches he was comfortable with when he got hired instead of accepting house men more loyal to the front office. If you think those reasons are good enough to fire Valentine after only one season, nothing I write is going to dissuade you. But in the wake of Jeff Passan's story for Yahoo! on Tuesday, there a few facts are worth mentioning: • The Red Sox last made the playoffs in 2009. They last won a playoff game in 2008. It is now 2012. This core group of players was underachieving a long, long time before Valentine showed up. That is undeniable. The Red Sox have become accustomed to losing. With a few exceptions, most of the players shrug their shoulders and go about their business. That business, with few exceptions, is not winning baseball games. • It's beyond comical that some players were offended that Valentine made Jon Lester pitch four whole innings against Toronto on July 22 when he allowed 11 runs. This just in: The Sox had 20 games in the next 21 days. They had worn out the bullpen the night before. Maybe the idea of further wearing out the bullpen so a 5-8 pitcher wouldn't have his lousy ERA go higher wasn't a big concern at the time. • It has become apparent over the last calendar year that the Red Sox front office made some serious miscalculations when it came to assessing the character of players they signed to large free-agent deals or contract extensions. John Lackey and Carl Crawford are obviously uncomfortable in Boston and it has affected their play. If Adrian Gonzalez was indeed the ringleader against Valentine — and he didn't deny Passan's charge that he was — that speaks poorly about his character, too. It is worth noting that Valentine was a staunch defender of Gonzalez in the spring when the first baseman was hitting .256 and going weeks between home runs. Josh Beckett, hailed as the leader of the pitching staff when he was signed to a huge extension, has been anything but. Unless, of course, the Red Sox wanted their pitchers led by somebody who doesn't seem to much care what happens to the team. It's telling that earlier this season, Valentine pulled Clay Buchholz aside and advised him to be his own man and not to follow the example set by others. Somehow — and this is the crux of the matter — the Red Sox went from being a franchise of grind-it-out, hard-nosed players to being entitled, selfish and unlikable. What are they so entitled about? That's the mystery. Yeah, five years ago you had a heck of a team. • Dustin Pedroia is the de facto captain of the team. Plenty of players follow him whether he has a "C" on his jersey or not. That he was so tight with Francona was going to be a problem for Valentine. Both men needed to find common ground in spring training and it seems that never happened. If only for the sake of the team, Pedroia should have been more demonstrative in his support of Valentine and Valentine should have invited Pedroia into his office once in a while. That would have headed off a lot of problems. Pedroia should be careful. His image is getting more bruised by the day. • None of this peripheral stuff is an issue if the team is winning and the team isn't winning because Beckett and Lester have pitched so poorly this season. Francona couldn't fix that last September and Valentine hasn't been able to this year, either. • Finally, there is the overriding idea that the front office and ownership has allowed this to happen. The Red Sox seem intent on appeasing their players as unprofessional behavior often goes unchallenged. The players are unhappy about a doubleheader? Bribe them off with headphones and a yacht trip. The players are out of shape? Fire the strength and conditioning coach. The players quit on the manager? Fire the manager. The players are unhappy with the new manager? Rush to New York and have a meeting with them. This started years ago, not when Valentine was hired. You can't fire 25 players, true enough. But when the time came, the Sox dumped Nomar Garciaparra and Manny Ramirez because they were obstacles to success. That time has come again. If Valentine gets fired, all it will be is more appeasement. Then again, you might be doing him a favor. Then he can sit around for a season, collect on his contract and not worry about winning. In that sense, he would be just like the players he was given to manage.

Edgy MD Aug 15 2012 11:24 AM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

[list][*]Bobby Valentine mentioned that Kelly Shoppach asked for more PT.[/*:m] [*]Bobby Valentine mentioned that Clay Buchholz asked to be pushed back a day, while noting that he had no problem with that and felt Buchholz was entitled to such a day.[/*:m] [*]Bobby Valentine was asked why he lifted Carl Crawford and mentioned that he had a minor injury that the press shouldn't make too much of.[/*:m][/list:u] Can I get a big whoop? Is this all you got? This all smacks of "See, I told you he was trouble." Terry Collins probably makes as many "gaffes" in a single pre-game interview, only they don't get recorded as gaffes, because they really aren't to any meaningful extent, and folks aren't trying to build such a case against Collins.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 15 2012 11:36 AM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

Abraham really writes a strong column there complete with a warning to Pedroia. I can imagine their interactions might be dicey for a bit.

TransMonk Aug 15 2012 11:41 AM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

I wonder what Bobby would do with these Metsies...

Vic Sage Aug 15 2012 03:37 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

i'd pay good money to find out.

Frayed Knot Aug 15 2012 04:52 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

Abraham really writes a strong column there complete with a warning to Pedroia. I can imagine their interactions might be dicey for a bit. I wonder what pct of the Boston media is willing to take Bobby's side like this. Usually that figure isn't too high. But when he concludes his column with: [firing him] "might be doing him a favor. Then he can sit around for a season, collect on his contract and not worry about winning. In that sense, he would be just like the players he was given to manage."; I'm not sure he's correct there. If Bobby gets fired one year into this job it becomes highly unlikely that he's ever hired again.

metirish Aug 15 2012 05:34 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

Abraham used to work the NY beat right?, Bergen Record if I remember correctly.

Edgy MD Aug 15 2012 05:49 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

There's always Japan. And the Yankees.

Ashie62 Aug 15 2012 05:58 PM Re: Life Goes On: Continuing Careers of Ex Mets - 2012

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I thought from the start that Bobby would succeed there but he'd have to do it with his guys. Will be interesting to see who goes where this offseason. Bobby V goes.

Edgy MD Aug 15 2012 07:59 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

Prediction archives.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 15 2012 08:09 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

I think Ashie's correct on this.

Ashie62 Aug 15 2012 08:36 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

Edgy DC wrote: There's always Japan. And the Yankees. Mets dude!

Edgy MD Aug 15 2012 08:56 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

The Mets have had a few chances to go back to Bobby and passed. I would love to see a Valentine/Bay swap, but we'd have to throw in a few bridges.

metirish Aug 20 2012 04:41 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

Pitching coach fired , that'll fix it.

bmfc1 Aug 21 2012 05:27 AM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

BV wanted his own coaches but ownership dictated who his coaches would be. The pitching coach and BV didn't get along, the team sux, the shit has hit the fan... and NOW they get rid of the pitching coach. Well done!

metirish Aug 21 2012 06:37 AM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

Yeah, it all seems a bit reminiscent of the Phillips Valentine era except the GM in Boston seems to have no say really and it's all Lucchino. It seemed silly at the time to hire a guy because you wanted a strong personality(plus excellent manager) but then not let him have his own coaches.But that seems to be a common thing in MLB.

Mets – Willets Point Aug 21 2012 08:05 AM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

Maybe they'll let Bobby work with the September call-ups while the pre-Madonnas* ride the pine. * Deliberately misspelled in tribute to posters on the old Metsonline fan forum.

metirish Sep 05 2012 02:13 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

Bobby in phone in rant.... http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/this- ... nts-return link to actual call http://audio.weei.com/a/62126258/bobby- ... t-i-am.htm he sounds done to me.....

Ceetar Sep 05 2012 02:21 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

he's got a point.

Edgy MD Sep 05 2012 02:25 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

"Four o'clock, like that's so late for a 7:15 game. Joe Maddon gets there everyday at 4 o'clock, just for the record," said Valentine. I hope the writers give him chocolates, because he's giving them gold.

The Second Spitter Sep 05 2012 03:15 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

So much fuss over a .507 career manager with no regular season pennant.

Edgy MD Sep 05 2012 03:21 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

The amazing thing is the notion that the problem with this guy is supposedly that he's an over-the-top control freak spotlight hog, and now he's being ripped for "checking out"? Which is it? That's hardly going apeshit.

Frayed Knot Sep 05 2012 03:24 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

Joe Maddon only gets to the park late when he gets a flat tire (he's an avid bicyclist even to the point of taking his on road trips).

Edgy MD Sep 05 2012 03:29 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

...for the record.

Edgy MD Sep 05 2012 03:39 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

Old Hoss Radbourn ? @OldHossRadbourn I have not pitched in Boston in 122 years and I would punch G. Ordway in the mouth right now. B. Valentine gets a pass on this one.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 05 2012 03:47 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

Edgy DC wrote: Old Hoss Radbourn ? @OldHossRadbourn I have not pitched in Boston in 122 years and I would punch G. Ordway in the mouth right now. B. Valentine gets a pass on this one. That guy is a rip.

Edgy MD Sep 05 2012 06:21 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

The Second Spitter wrote: So much fuss over a .507 career manager with no regular season pennant. I don't know about a "regular season" pennant. That's sort of parsing things. A manager is a manager is a manager. Trying to look at records and pennants, as if they operate independently of the talent they're given, is impossible.

Vic Sage Sep 05 2012 09:53 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...) Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 06 2012 09:58 AM

the Mets were better with him than without him in the years immediately preceding and following his Mets manageriacy. And he won us a pennant. and before all that, he did better with Texas than was either expected or justified by the team's talent. which could be said of the Mets as well. and i'd bet (but do not know) he did well in Japan, too. Whatever happened in Beantown, i blame the players. Apparently the owner did too as he shipped half of them out of town for a sack of magic beans. But Bobby is a whipping boy for the media (cuz he's smarter than them and he lets them know it), so he's demonized. Hell, for all i know about it, he deserved it this time. But he didn't deserve it here (with the Mets) and i wished he'd outlasted Steve (I'll fuck the cleaning lady now, thanks) Phillips and the Wilpons.

Edgy MD Sep 06 2012 07:10 AM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

Vic Sage wrote: the Mets were better with him than without him in the years immediately preceding and following his Mets manageriacy. And he won us a pennant. and before all that, he did better with Texas than was either expected or justified by the team's talent. which could be said of the Mets as well. and i'd bet (but do not know) he did well in Japan, too. Whatever happened in Beantown, i blame the players. Apparently the owner did too as he shipped half of them out of town for a sack of magic beans. But Bobby is a whipping boy for the media (cuz he's smarter than them and he lets them know it), so he's demonized. Hell, for all i know about it, he deserved it this time. But he didn't deserve it here and i wished he'd outlasted Steve (I'll fuck the cleaning lady now, thanks) Phillips and the Wilpons. I hadn't realized that had become part of Phillips' name. and i'd bet (but do not know) he did well in Japan, too His teams went 494-460-23 (.518) with one Japan championship that became a pan-Asian championship when his Marines beat the Korean League champs. (He challenged Ozzie Guillen to put his US champ White Sox forward but the challenge unsurprisingly wasn't taken very seriously.) He was ousted after a smear campaign by the Chiba Lotte ownership but the fans took his side overwhelmingly. Here's the thing --- when you're taking the side of the cock-jock sports radio host, it's a good time reconsider your feelings. And the weeny position of "Hey, don't get mad at me --- I'm just repeating some baldfacedly bullshit backpage thing I read in the tabloids" is real real weak. And to repeat, Valentine doesn't go ape here. He responds to a strong accusation strongly.

Ceetar Sep 06 2012 07:17 AM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

Edgy DC wrote: And to repeat, Valentine doesn't go ape here. He responds to a strong accusation strongly. And having strong feelings about things is not a bad thing. It's probably a good thing when it's about your job. (this probably applies to other facets of life too) i hope he doesn't get fired over something like that. The media seems intent on turning sports people into rhetoric spouting mush.

metirish Sep 06 2012 07:35 AM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

The question was a real dick move....basically asking a guy who is super passionate about the game if he has quit.......

Ceetar Sep 06 2012 07:43 AM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

metirish wrote: The question was a real dick move....basically asking a guy who is super passionate about the game if he has quit....... Francesa asked a similiar question of Terry, only the narrative in NY is obviously about the players quitting on him. I don't remember how Terry answered it.

Vic Sage Sep 06 2012 10:06 AM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

Vic Sage wrote: ...But he didn't deserve it here and i wished he'd outlasted Steve (I'll fuck the cleaning lady now, thanks) Phillips and the Wilpons. Edgy DC wrote: I hadn't realized that had become part of Phillips' name. yes, he changed it after getting fired by the Mets so he could heighten his profile and get hired by ESPN... it put his brand right in their wheelhouse. Of course, he changed it to "Steve (I'll fuck the intern now, thanks) Phillips" after being fired by ESPN, for similar reasons. Now, reduced to working a few Angels broadcasts, i wonder who he'll fuck now? Probably his audience.

Frayed Knot Sep 06 2012 10:15 AM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

Joe Maddon sent out a tweet in the wake of all this apologizing for being late to a game due to his pedicure appointment running late.

MFS62 Sep 06 2012 10:30 AM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

metirish wrote: The question was a real dick move....basically asking a guy who is super passionate about the game if he has quit....... Have you ever listened to those hosts on WEEI sports talk radio in Boston? I have. And I'd like to punch some of them in the mouth, too. There used to be one guy, who if you wanted to move the discussion to a non-Boston team, he'd hang up on you. Later

SteveJRogers Sep 06 2012 11:43 AM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

MFS62 wrote: metirish wrote: The question was a real dick move....basically asking a guy who is super passionate about the game if he has quit....... Have you ever listened to those hosts on WEEI sports talk radio in Boston? I have. And I'd like to punch some of them in the mouth, too. There used to be one guy, who if you wanted to move the discussion to a non-Boston team, he'd hang up on you. Later The only time I listened to WEEI for an extended time was when David Cone was traded to Toronto. The host was speculating that the soon to be free agent could wind up as the player to be named later that was to be headed to New York.

Ceetar Sep 06 2012 12:00 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

I listened once back in..2003? 4? when I went up to Boston to interview at Raytheon. They were livid about the damn third base coach, Dale Sveum, getting guys thrown out at home.

metirish Sep 06 2012 12:06 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

Ceetar wrote: I listened once back in..2003? 4? when I went up to Boston to interview at Raytheon. They were livid about the damn third base coach, Dale Sveum, getting guys thrown out at home. I remember that, Christ, they killed him. Was it that long ago already?

Ceetar Sep 06 2012 12:20 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

metirish wrote: Ceetar wrote: I listened once back in..2003? 4? when I went up to Boston to interview at Raytheon. They were livid about the damn third base coach, Dale Sveum, getting guys thrown out at home. I remember that, Christ, they killed him. Was it that long ago already? apparently. looked it up and he was 2004-2005. they were still losers, so must have been September 2004. Seems like yesterday sometimes. oh time..

The Second Spitter Sep 13 2012 08:25 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

The Genius falls to 29 games above .500 lifetime.....in 16 years of management in the Bigs.

Edgy MD Sep 13 2012 08:28 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

Like we wouldn't trade Terry Collins for him in a Boston minute.

The Second Spitter Sep 13 2012 08:52 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

Yes, I would. But my opinion of White Jerry is right up there with the mouldy mildew you find in gym showers.

Edgy MD Sep 13 2012 09:20 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

As long as Ozzie Guillen is lacing 'em up, we don't have the worst manager in the division.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 13 2012 09:46 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

I like very much the idea of hiring Bobby Vee on a "make-good" deal to replace Terry if the Bosox whack him. If the FO were creative enough they could work out a "trade" whereby the Sox could move Bobby (and a portion of his salary) for some longshot prospect. Would save faces for 2 orgs -- Mets because they need the juice and a relative bargain wherever they can get them; Sawx can "fire" the guy with a little honor and show their fans they're listening.

The Second Spitter Sep 13 2012 11:01 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

The only way I can rationalise rehiring Wile E. is his ability to get the most out of a shithouse squad (and lets be honest, we could be stuck with a shitty squad for a while). Also he seems to revel when the team lacks strong "clubhouse personalities". That said, I'm almost certain the Wilpon's will balk at his salary demands, unless they go into PR damage control. Then there's the question of how our in-house Mensa society and their strict observance of the Moneyball gospel, view his role. The Genius seems to work better under GMs who are more concerned with banging their PAs than day-to-day team affairs.

Mets – Willets Point Sep 14 2012 07:27 AM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

The Second Spitter wrote: The Genius You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

Centerfield Sep 14 2012 07:42 AM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

Vic Sage wrote: the Mets were better with him than without him in the years immediately preceding and following his Mets manageriacy. And he won us a pennant. and before all that, he did better with Texas than was either expected or justified by the team's talent. which could be said of the Mets as well. and i'd bet (but do not know) he did well in Japan, too. Whatever happened in Beantown, i blame the players. Apparently the owner did too as he shipped half of them out of town for a sack of magic beans. But Bobby is a whipping boy for the media (cuz he's smarter than them and he lets them know it), so he's demonized. Hell, for all i know about it, he deserved it this time. But he didn't deserve it here (with the Mets) and i wished he'd outlasted Steve (I'll fuck the cleaning lady now, thanks) Phillips and the Wilpons. Yup.

Mets – Willets Point Sep 14 2012 07:55 AM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

Centerfield wrote: Vic Sage wrote: the Mets were better with him than without him in the years immediately preceding and following his Mets manageriacy. And he won us a pennant. and before all that, he did better with Texas than was either expected or justified by the team's talent. which could be said of the Mets as well. and i'd bet (but do not know) he did well in Japan, too. Whatever happened in Beantown, i blame the players. Apparently the owner did too as he shipped half of them out of town for a sack of magic beans. But Bobby is a whipping boy for the media (cuz he's smarter than them and he lets them know it), so he's demonized. Hell, for all i know about it, he deserved it this time. But he didn't deserve it here (with the Mets) and i wished he'd outlasted Steve (I'll fuck the cleaning lady now, thanks) Phillips and the Wilpons. Yup. Thanks for quoting this as I overlooked it the first time around. I'll add my Yup!

The Second Spitter Sep 14 2012 09:15 AM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

Mets – Willets Point wrote: The Second Spitter wrote: The Genius You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means. That was epithet used to describe him at my previous Mets internet home. But i agree, something like "Honest Iago" is probably more fitting.

Edgy MD Oct 03 2012 03:15 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

Bobby Valentine says he was undermined by coaches From staff reports October 3, 2012 Red Sox manager Bobby Valentine said Wednesday he believed his coaches were not loyal to him this season and that he was undermined by them. In his final appearance of the season on WEEI’s “The Big Show,” Valentine confirmed there was dysfunction within the coaching staff, which came to light over the summer and was detailed in a Boston Globe story. One member of the staff, pitching coach Bob McClure, was fired in August. When asked by WEEI host Glenn Ordway why he thought his coaching staff was disloyal, Valentine replied, “You asked me what I feel. That’s what I feel.” He responded similarly when asked if he felt he was undermined by his coaching staff. Asked if he would like different coaches if he is brought back next season, Valentine said, “Some, yeah.” Speculation has been rampant that Valentine will be fired soon. The Red Sox play their final game of the season Wednesday night vs. the Yankees in New York.

metirish Oct 03 2012 04:15 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

weird Bobby Valentine crashes bike in Central Park Red Sox manager Bobby Valentine was slightly injured after crashing his bicycle in New York’s Central Park on Tuesday, the New York Times reported. According to the Times, Valentine said he was reading a text message from second baseman Dustin Pedroia when he had to swerve to avoid people in front of him. He fell off the bike and suffered minor injuries to his knees and hips. The message from Pedroia was to indicate Pedroia planned to play in Tuesday’s 4-3 loss to the Yankees despite a broken finger on his left hand. “I shouldn’t have been reading a text while I was riding. That’s the wrong thing to do,” Valentine said. Valentine is an avid cyclist. He said he was wearing a helmet.

Frayed Knot Oct 03 2012 05:55 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

Valentine is an avid cyclist. He said he was wearing a helmet. He never was during that film of him managing in Japan.

Edgy MD Oct 03 2012 09:13 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

An open secret no more? Red Sox GM appears to confirm Bobby V.'s likely firing By Jon Heyman | Baseball Insider September 27, 2012 2:19 pm ET It has been an open secret Bobby Valentine will be let go by the Red Sox at the end of the season. But suddenly, it didn't sound like such a secret anymore. Red Sox GM Ben Cherington was asked about a prospective managerial search this winter in an interview Thursday morning on WEEI in Boston, and Cherington seemed to talk openly about how he will approach this winter's managerial search. "I'd always rather get the decision right than rush it," Cherington said on the radio. "But what we need to do is hit the ground running this offseason. One of the things that, as I look back on last offseason, that didn't go so perfectly was simply the amount of time we spent on the manager search and what that did to the rest of the offseason and I would like to spend less time on it this offseason, that's for sure." Now, the Red Sox's upcoming managerial search was no great secret, though Valentine himself told Red Sox writers only a day earlier he hadn't heard anything and suggested he was hopeful to return. Even putting aside Valentine's stance, no one expected any Red Sox bosses to comment on the strategy to replace Valentine, at least not until Valentine is actually fired. People can misspeak, and Valentine's critics would say he did so a time or two this year, and perhaps Cherington didn't mean to say what he said. But if you're not changing managers, why talk about wanting to spend less time on the search this offseason? Why not just say, thankfully we have a manager, so we won't have to spend any time on the search? Cherington responded to his seeming implication that Valentine was gone for sure, saying via text, "It had nothing to do with Bobby. But if it came across that way, my mistake." Valentine's supporters will say Cherington's comments on the radio were just the latest bit of evidence Valentine never had the support of his bosses. That it fits into a season where it was a split decision to hire him, with Cherington being steered by ownership to Valentine after he targated Dale Sveum and several others. That it fit into a season's theme of disrespect. Valentine's supporters might cite these other three occurrences ... 1. Cherington sided with Kevin Youkilis after Valentine suggested in a broadcast interview that he was surprised not to be getting the ususal effort from Youkilis. 2. A couple of the coaches were not punished in any way for acting like they didn't want Valentine to be the manager. 3. The owners met with 17 players at a secret gathering sans Valentine in New York to discuss issues with the manager and perhaps the coaching staff. Again, Cherington texted to explain his comments Thursday, saying it "had nothing to do with Bobby," and that's really about all he can say. (Valentine declined to discuss the radio comments.) Perhaps Cherington merely got confused for the moment, but it's hard to really understand how he was talking about an upcoming managerial search that wouldn't affect the current manager.

bmfc1 Oct 04 2012 11:01 AM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

Fired. I'm sure he'll be back at ESPN any day now.

batmagadanleadoff Oct 04 2012 11:05 AM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

I know it's a sucker's game to say "never", but I'd bet that Bobby V. never manages another major league game. He's done.

Centerfield Oct 04 2012 11:08 AM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

I hate to say it, but I tend to think so too. I really thought Bobby would be a perfect fit to wake up that Boston team. Shows you what I know.

Edgy MD Oct 04 2012 12:32 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

Bobby Valentine fired by Red Sox Bobby Valentine led the Red Sox to a 69-93 record in his only season as the manager. By Peter Abraham Globe Staff / October 4, 2012 Bobby Valentine, who presided over one of the worst seasons in Red Sox history, was fired Thursday. (Ed: I checked the numbers. Winning percentage-wise, it was the 16th-worst season in their history.) The Red Sox moved swiftly after ending their season Wednesday night, telling Valentine that he would not return for the second year of his contract to manage the team. The team announced the move in a press release. “Our 2012 season was disappointing for many reasons,” general manager Ben Cherington said in the team’s announcement. “No single issue is the reason, and no single individual is to blame. We’ve been making personnel changes since August, and we will continue to do so as we build a contending club. With an historic number of injuries, Bobby was dealt a difficult hand. He did the best he could under seriously adverse circumstances, and I am thankful to him.” (Ed: With a pink slip.) The Sox finished 69-93, their worst record since 1965, and finished in last place in the American League East for the first time since John Henry and Tom Werner became owners 11 years ago. (Ed: Pipers must be paid.) “I understand this decision,” Valentine said in the team press release. “This year in Boston has been an incredible experience for me, but I am as disappointed in the results as are ownership and the great fans of Red Sox Nation. It was a privilege to be part of the 100 year anniversary of Fenway Park and an honor to be in uniform with such great players and coaches. My best to the organization. I’m sure next year will be a turnaround year.” (Ed: And the media was such a pleasure. SUCH a pleasure.) Not since 1934 had the Red Sox fired a manager after only one season. But the 62-year-old Valentine was a controversial choice to replace Terry Francona, and his tenure proved rocky. Valentine was not the choice of first-year general manager Ben Cherington. Team president/CEO Larry Lucchino engineered the deal after the Red Sox interviewed five other candidates, believing Valentine would restore order to a team that tuned out Francona and collapsed down the stretch in 2011. But the situation grew worse. Valentine had almost no allies within the organization beyond Lucchino and a handful of players. “This year’s won-loss record reflects a season of agony,” Red Sox CEO Larry Lucchino said. “It begs for changes, some of which have already transpired. More will come. We are determined to fix that which is broken and return the Red Sox to the level of success we have experienced over the past decade. Difficult as it is to judge a manager amid a season that had an epidemic of injuries, we feel we need to make changes. Bobby leaves the Red Sox’ manager’s office with our respect, gratitude, and affection. I have no doubt that he will continue to contribute to the game he loves so much and knows so well.” Valentine was urged to retain three of the assistant coaches and to hire Bob McClure as the pitching coach. Before the end of spring training, Valentine was at odds with McClure, bench coach Tim Bogar, and bullpen coach Gary Tuck. Within a few months, Valentine would go days without speaking more than a few words to some of his coaches. McClure, whose hands-off style helped lead to the Red Sox having one of the worst rotations in the game, was eventually fired in August. Valentine’s relationship with the players started to sour in April when he questioned the commitment of third baseman Kevin Youkilis by saying, “I don’t think he’s as physically or emotionally into the game as he has been in the past for some reason.” Cherington forced Valentine to apologize to Youkilis, and second baseman Dustin Pedroia dismissively said that criticizing players wasn’t how the Red Sox went about their business. As injuries mounted and the team became progressively worse, Valentine’s relationship with the players became more distant. It was a clash of styles more than personalities. Valentine favored the idea of having an open-door policy. If a player had a problem, he should come talk to him. The players had become accustomed to Francona coming to them. Francona also used his coaches as conduits to the clubhouse, something Valentine was unable to do because of their loyalty to the front office. All too often, the Red Sox appeared disorganized, if not unprepared. The chasm between the manager’s office and the rest of the baseball operations staff was a wide one. In July, a group of mutinous players contacted Henry and Werner and demanded a meeting in New York during a road trip. Despite their complaints about Valentine, he stayed on the job. Valentine also tangled with the media, often mocking questions or answering them frivolously. When radio host Glenn Ordway asked Valentine whether he had “checked out” on the season, the manager threatened to punch him. It was a joke, he said. But the controversies, many of them contrived, were not why the Red Sox lost so many games. They had 27 players, 13 of them former All-Stars, go on the disabled list a franchise-record 34 times. In all, the Sox had 1,495 games missed because of injuries. Valentine never once managed a game with a full complement of the team’s best players. Valentine also was saddled with a poor rotation, Red Sox starters posting an ERA of 5.15. Bad decisions made before he was hired, including turning ace reliever Daniel Bard into a starter, worked against him. Injuries to David Ortiz and Will Middlebrooks helped put the team out of contention in August. On Aug. 25, the Red Sox hit the reset button on their franchise with a landmark trade that sent righthander Josh Beckett, outfielder Carl Crawford, and first baseman Adrian Gonzalez to the Dodgers. The Red Sox received five players in return and $264 million in long-term payroll savings. Valentine was left with a roster full of minor leaguers, and the Red Sox lost games in bunches through the end of the season. Now the pressure will fall squarely on Cherington to use the financial flexibility gained in the Dodgers trade to reverse the fortunes of a team that has plunged to the bottom of the American League. The Red Sox have missed the playoffs for three seasons in a row and have not won a playoff game since 2008. Eighteen teams in the majors have qualified for the postseason since the Red Sox last did. The Red Sox will start 2013 with their third manager in as many years. To end that George Steinbrenner-like disarray, the next choice must be a good one. John Farrell, who has had a rocky two seasons as Toronto’s manager after spending five years as Red Sox pitching coach, may be the team’s first choice if the Blue Jays are willing to let him go. Bogar could get the job after helping to push Valentine out the door. Or the Sox could conduct yet another search and bring a group of candidates to Fenway Park. A quick decision is paramount. The Red Sox went two months without a manager last season and that backfired. There’s a lot of work to be done, and whoever takes on Boston’s most demanding job needs to get started. Peter Abraham can be reached at pabraham@globe.com. Follow him on Twitter @PeteAbe. Two lessons: 1. Don't take the job if the leadership team isn't unanimously behind you. You'll wind up being somebody's scapegoat. 2. Don't let folks force coaches on you. Or better yet, don't hire coaches you and your superiors aren't unanimously behind.

Mets – Willets Point Oct 04 2012 01:18 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

Centerfield wrote: I hate to say it, but I tend to think so too. I really thought Bobby would be a perfect fit to wake up that Boston team. Shows you what I know. He did wake up the Boston team, but they hit they snooze button. Now they've smashed the clock.

Mets – Willets Point Oct 04 2012 01:49 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

Nice bit of scapegoating. The guy who exposes all the flaws in the casual country-club atmosphere gets the boot. Now they have to find a new manager AND completely rebuild the team.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 04 2012 02:04 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

Shoulda traded Bay for him while we had the chance.

metirish Oct 04 2012 05:05 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

A gif pf Bobby today in Boston being chased by reporters then an impromptu presser while on his bike http://www.boston.com/sports/2012/10/04 ... story.html

Ashie62 Oct 04 2012 05:12 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

I know Bobby is abit odd but I believe he brought most of this on himself. Sandy, now hire him!

Edgy MD Oct 04 2012 08:31 PM Re: The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

Gracious man.