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Terry Watch

Edgy MD Aug 15 2012 07:58 PM

Ashie's calling for his head --- and while Terry Collins looked very much like a place holder from the start, it's looking more every day like his place is growing unstable. So I offer this thread, for opinions about Collins' employment, journalism to that effect, and speculation about his replacement. If it went down today, it would be like [list][*]Backman 3-2[/*:m] [*]Geren 3-1[/*:m] [*]Teufel 9-1[/*:m] [*]Everybody Else 3-1[/*:m][/list:u] I kinda lost any hope for the guy's future that game in Miami that led to this post from Gwreck. I don't know if his moves and non-moves that evening demoralized his team, but it sure seemed so when they came out and lost by double digits the next day. He's looking more and more like the dead man walking that Howe and Manuel were the last two months of their tenures. I sure ain't rooting against good Terry, but if they do see a future with Backman, it may behoove them to cut to him for the end of this season (like they did with Valentine) instead of wasting a chunk of the offseason on a farcical manager search. It can perhaps send Wright a message of renewed organizational energy entering any potential offseason contract talks.

batmagadanleadoff Aug 15 2012 08:19 PM Re: Terry Watch

The Mets haven't had a manager as good as Terry Collins in 10 years. I'm not braggin' about this. I'm just sayin'.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 15 2012 08:21 PM Re: Terry Watch

batmagadanleadoff wrote: The Mets haven't had a manager as good as Terry Collins in 10 years. I'm not braggin' about this. I'm just sayin'. /Guffaws once //Sighs ///Sniffles, wipes away sad tear

Edgy MD Aug 15 2012 08:26 PM Re: Terry Watch

I hear ya. I'm not banging the drums here, believe me. Just noting that I hear them in the distance.

Ashie62 Aug 15 2012 08:34 PM Re: Terry Watch

If you are going to lose 90 something gives.. Collins may be cheap enough to keep.. Geren is lifer stiff. Teufel blew it on that dance with Duda. How bout V? Hes about done up there.

TransMonk Aug 15 2012 08:35 PM Re: Terry Watch

Edgy DC wrote: Terry Collins looked very much like a place holder from the start... batmagadanleadoff wrote: The Mets haven't had a manager as good as Terry Collins in 10 years. Both very true statements. The Mets need Wright to stay. It may very well be his call, either directly or indirectly. I would take Bobby V back in a split-second.

Ashie62 Aug 15 2012 08:38 PM Re: Terry Watch

It may be Wrights call.. within the Ryan budget of course.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 15 2012 09:42 PM Re: Terry Watch

I don't think moving Terry aside does anything for this club right now. He's here until the team is ready to pass on to the next leader and that day sure as heck ain't here and that sure as heck ain't his fault. I am disappointed that they've played so badly these second halves but he's got jack shit to work with. Baxter, Valdespin and Torres is the outfield for christ sakes. This'll make Ceetar happy but I think if someone has to be sacrificed it'll be Warthen, mianly because he's pre-Sandy and they can hang the bullpen on him if they want, as wrong as that probably is. Bob Apodaca is looking for a job, he resigned from the Rockies recently, but I'd imagine the Mets try and promote whomever they deem most responsible for bringing along the Harveys and Wheelers and Mejias etc.

Ceetar Aug 15 2012 09:50 PM Re: Terry Watch

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: This'll make Ceetar happy but I think if someone has to be sacrificed it'll be Warthen, mianly because he's pre-Sandy and they can hang the bullpen on him if they want, as wrong as that probably is. Bob Apodaca is looking for a job, he resigned from the Rockies recently, but I'd imagine the Mets try and promote whomever they deem most responsible for bringing along the Harveys and Wheelers and Mejias etc. My minds a blur, but it was either Howie or Gary that basically campaigned for Apodaca the other day. Technically he was suggesting Boston, but.. You've got (hopefully..?) a bunch of young arms coming up soon. You'd want to have the 'future' pitching coach in place earlier than the 'future' manager I'd think, as to nurture those arms. I think it's pretty hard to make a case Warthen's done anything special with nurturing new callups.

The Second Spitter Aug 16 2012 12:42 AM Re: Terry Watch

So I offer this thread, for opinions about Collins' employment, journalism to that effect, and speculation about his replacement. If it went down today, it would be like [list][*]Backman 3-2[/*:m][/list:u] Lord, please make this happen. TransMonk wrote: I would take Bobby V back in a split-second.

Edgy MD Aug 16 2012 06:55 AM Re: Terry Watch

My guess is the Lord and Wally Backman ain't on the best of terms these days.

metirish Aug 16 2012 07:10 AM Re: Terry Watch

I think Backman would represent the kind of bold choice that Alderson seems too conservative to make.

batmagadanleadoff Aug 16 2012 07:14 AM Re: Terry Watch

I think Backman would represent the kind of bad choice that Alderson seems too smart to make.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 16 2012 07:15 AM Re: Terry Watch

It was Howie discussing Apodaca going to Boston to be reunited with Bobby V. I'm all for buying any 86 Met a drink but I'm tired of them getting jobs with the team. Wally to me seems like a higher-strung, less-self-aware version of Terry. I think not hiring Backman already illustrates boldness by Sandy. Let's do something whacky and raid the Rays for Joe Maddon.

TransMonk Aug 16 2012 07:28 AM Re: Terry Watch

I would not prefer Backman over Terry.

Swan Swan H Aug 16 2012 07:58 AM Re: Terry Watch

I'm with Lunchie and others on Collins. I don't see him as being the primary reason for the swoon, and making a change for the sake of making a change is not the way to run a team. Wally can be the colorful third base coach who gets tossed from a game every few weeks for arguing a fair/foul call or a checked swing and keeps the dugout pumped up. I'm not sure he's got the proper alignment of marbles to be the boss. I could see him coaching under a calm demeanored sort like Terry Francona. RE: pitching coach, Leo Mazzone is out there, but it may be telling that no one has offered him a job since the O's canned him in 2007.

metirish Aug 16 2012 08:09 AM Re: Terry Watch

I really like the Joe Madden suggestion, let's do it.

Vic Sage Aug 16 2012 08:17 AM Re: Terry Watch

scapegoating the manager (and believe me, i have no love for TC) is naught but a silly distraction at this point. try scapegoating the OF, the bullpen, the catcher and 1bman. Better yet, try replacing them. Or as Ceetar would call turning over half the roster, lets make "adjustments".

Ceetar Aug 16 2012 08:27 AM Re: Terry Watch

Vic Sage wrote: scapegoating the manager (and believe me, i have no love for TC) is naught but a silly distraction at this point. try scapegoating the OF, the bullpen, the catcher and 1bman. Better yet, try replacing them. Or as Ceetar would call turning over half the roster, lets make "adjustments". There's a balance between scapegoating the players and going with a grass is always greener approach where we assume the guy we don't have isn't going to come here and fail. Thole and Davis for instance, may very well outperform whoever they get next year. My point about adjustments is that some of these guys need to stay, because they might succeed. You can't just replace them because you've decided they suck and won't get better. Some of them need to be replaced, others will be fine. grow/adjust/etc. Making the right choices on which is which is where the Mets can improve better than the other teams that are doing the same thing.

Ceetar Aug 16 2012 08:31 AM Re: Terry Watch

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: It was Howie discussing Apodaca going to Boston to be reunited with Bobby V. I'm all for buying any 86 Met a drink but I'm tired of them getting jobs with the team. Wally to me seems like a higher-strung, less-self-aware version of Terry. I think not hiring Backman already illustrates boldness by Sandy. Let's do something whacky and raid the Rays for Joe Maddon. And 'firing' Mookie. I agree with that Backman/Terry point though. I like the self-awareness in Terry. I know it's hard to evaluate this stuff generally though, so if the manager is not making me scream in frustrating constantly, I'm usually fine with assuming the Mets know better than me if he needs to be replaced. Maddon's interesting though. I think I'd rather find the next Maddon though. Someone new/different? Ventura looked pretty good out of nowhere, that would've been fun. I think Howie was mentionion how Miguel Tejada wanted to manager immediately. That'd be another interesting one.

The Second Spitter Aug 16 2012 08:34 AM Re: Terry Watch

I'd go for Maddon before any other manager in the league. I'd also like to see a Warthen watch before a Terry watch.

TransMonk Aug 16 2012 08:37 AM Re: Terry Watch

How is there a situation that we would pursue Maddon? Per Cot's, he signed a 3 year extention ('13-'15) with TB earlier this year.

Vic Sage Aug 16 2012 08:40 AM Re: Terry Watch

there's NO situation, Monk. It's just so much hogwash. Now if there's a possibility of a WILPON WATCH, sign me up! Lets get a Green Bay situation up in Willets Point, baby!

Ceetar Aug 16 2012 08:59 AM Re: Terry Watch

TransMonk wrote: How is there a situation that we would pursue Maddon? Per Cot's, he signed a 3 year extention ('13-'15) with TB earlier this year. trade for him? Vic Sage wrote: there's NO situation, Monk. It's just so much hogwash. Now if there's a possibility of a WILPON WATCH, sign me up! Lets get a Green Bay situation up in Willets Point, baby! god no, have you seen some of these Mets fans? Don't want them pretending they're owners.

Edgy MD Aug 16 2012 09:16 AM Re: Terry Watch

Terry went into his "I'm looking for players who will play hard for me" spiel about 10 days ago. He did it last year, too. It basically amounts to "This year is hopeless, so play for next year." My feeling is that players play hard for a manager who gives in on nothing --- who struggles to put them in the best position to win every day. That may mean benching popular guys who aren't getting it done. That may mean replacing a pinch hitter when the opposition changes pitchers, even if the pinch hitter hasn't gotten to the plate in a week. I like a manager who defines loyalty to the players as loyalty to winning. Terry, coming in with a reputation as a guy who lost his clubhouse due to aloofness from his players, has overcompensated by running away from that position, and I worry that --- since the day of that post by Gwreck I cited above --- he's hit a tipping point as far as pandering to his players.

HahnSolo Aug 16 2012 09:34 AM Re: Terry Watch

Regarding Wally, much as I loved the guy and I would really like to see a ML team give him a shot, I worry that he will wear out his welcome pretty fast and in 2 years we'd be back looking to fill the position again. Finding the next Maddon would be great. I'd like to hire a guy who we're not having a "watch" for in the middle of his second season, whoever that might be.

duan Aug 16 2012 09:37 AM Re: Terry Watch

I've never been big on Terry Collins, earlier on in the year I think I posted how I reckoned he's "all intensity" personality would lead one to tune out at some stage. Similarly it's not like he's proven he can manage a bullpen or a lineup. However, I REALLY don't think Wally Backman is the answer. It might be 'entertaining' but having someone who looks to me to have all the ingredients of a sociopath in charge of a team of is not going to end well. I also think it'll be embarrassing to be around.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 16 2012 09:39 AM Re: Terry Watch

I was not being serious with the Maddon thing, just offering what I considered to be a better alternative to Wally in the (unlikely IMO) event Terry gets whacked. If it comes to that, I'd just as soon get Chip Hale back in the saddle. Speaking of which, I'd fire Tim Teufel's ass already, he's made zero contribution to this group that I can tell and he sure as hell shouldn't be wearing No. 18. No more 86 Mets!

batmagadanleadoff Aug 16 2012 09:43 AM Re: Terry Watch

And they put Teufel's mug on one of this year's tickets. WTF?

Ceetar Aug 16 2012 09:46 AM Re: Terry Watch

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: No more 86 Mets! I dunno, sometimes i think just an audio feed of Keith and Ron talking from last night's game is all the pitching/hitting coach they need.

Edgy MD Aug 16 2012 11:38 AM Re: Terry Watch

That's something. Mex back in uniform would be a fantastic sideshow. I just don't know if he's capable of even pretending to lead the sort of stable disciplined life that a leader of young men would have to have. He's a mercurial dude --- part of what makes him great on broadcasts, but I imagine by May of his first year, a batter could come to him and ask, "What am I doing wrong here?" and he'd respond. "You know, I don't care what you do."

Ceetar Aug 16 2012 12:18 PM Re: Terry Watch

Edgy DC wrote: That's something. Mex back in uniform would be a fantastic sideshow. I just don't know if he's capable of even pretending to lead the sort of stable disciplined life that a leader of young men would have to have. He's a mercurial dude --- part of what makes him great on broadcasts, but I imagine by May of his first year, a batter could come to him and ask, "What am I doing wrong here?" and he'd respond. "You know, I don't care what you do." I think he'd be more "you're hopeless" than not caring. Both him and Ron have hinted that they have talked to players about their trade. Maybe that's the best we can ask of them right now.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 16 2012 12:31 PM Re: Terry Watch

eh. It's one thing to explain to the folks at home what's happening, another to convince an athlete what's best/right etc. And I like those guys in the booth where they are. What I want is for the token X-Met coaching assignment go to a Pat Zachry or Butch Huskey or some dude who's not flashing his 86 bling all over the joint. Give me Dennis Cook! Bring me Steve Henderson. Jason Jacome, come on down.

Ceetar Aug 16 2012 12:33 PM Re: Terry Watch

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: eh. It's one thing to explain to the folks at home what's happening, another to convince an athlete what's best/right etc. And I like those guys in the booth where they are. What I want is for the token X-Met coaching assignment go to a Pat Zachry or Butch Huskey or some dude who's not flashing his 86 bling all over the joint. Give me Dennis Cook! Bring me Steve Henderson. Jason Jacome, come on down. Rick Reed? (checks) Reed's the pitching coach for Marshall University apparently.

Edgy MD Aug 16 2012 12:34 PM Re: Terry Watch

Ceetar wrote: I think he'd be more "you're hopeless" than not caring. That's sorta what I mean.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 16 2012 12:34 PM Re: Terry Watch

See how easy that was?

TransMonk Aug 16 2012 03:42 PM Re: Terry Watch

Hilarious!

duan Aug 16 2012 03:49 PM Re: Terry Watch

but can we all agree NO to Wally Backman?

Ashie62 Aug 16 2012 05:15 PM Re: Terry Watch

Edgy DC wrote: That's something. Mex back in uniform would be a fantastic sideshow. I just don't know if he's capable of even pretending to lead the sort of stable disciplined life that a leader of young men would have to have. He's a mercurial dude --- part of what makes him great on broadcasts, but I imagine by May of his first year, a batter could come to him and ask, "What am I doing wrong here?" and he'd respond. "You know, I don't care what you do." With food in his mouth

bmfc1 Aug 19 2012 09:34 AM Re: Terry Watch

Shorty McBunty is a horrible in-game manager. I wouldn't trust him to manage a JV high school baseball game. Terry Collins is an alleged leader of men. However, those men have stopped playing well for him the last two years. It is arguable whether these players stink or they quit after playing well for 3 months. Do you want to see if that patterns continues for a 3d year? I don't but since he's under contract, we'll find out.

Edgy MD Sep 19 2012 11:19 AM Re: Terry Watch

A month later, shouldn't this be sorta a constant topic of conversation? Say what you want about Tim McCarver, but when a manager was limping home with his team he wouldn't stop openly talking about his job status. Force the issue, writers!

Ashie62 Sep 19 2012 11:45 AM Re: Terry Watch

It would be like beating a dead team at this point. Can't imagine Terry will be back, but these are the Mets.

Edgy MD Sep 19 2012 11:58 AM Re: Terry Watch

I don't know about beating a team dead. Openly discussing a manager's status is very typical fodder for teams limping home. It's something with the potential to be positive to talk about. I imagine there won't be a late season move --- or if there is, Geren will drive the team home as the interim --- as they probably have their eyes on some candy-dates that are still rounding out their seasons. Ten bucks says, if Terry goes, prematurely gray White Sox coach and David Wright surrogate father Joe McEwing gets an interview.

HahnSolo Sep 19 2012 12:04 PM Re: Terry Watch

Edgy DC wrote: Ten bucks says, if Terry goes, prematurely gray White Sox coach and David Wright surrogate father Joe McEwing gets an interview. Joe McEwing, not flashing his '86 bling.