Forum Home

Master Index of Archived Threads


The Bands that Time Forgot

Edgy MD
Aug 13 2012 10:18 PM

In the Baseball Passings thread, I note an essay by Bill James in which he wonders which players might have made the Hall of Fame if World War II never happened. I've sometimes wondered if there's a parallel list of bands that would have made the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame if Nirvana had never happened: bands just peaking at the top of the nineties and then suddenly dropped by their labels to make room for the Root Maggots or some other abomination that the label can't make heads or tails over, but is moving units to their goofy-haired, flannel-flying fanbase.

Not merely personal faves, but bands that seemed really poised to make a deep cultural impact, and then the culture shifted.

Some guesses: Silos? Jayhawks? Brandos? Del Amitri? Material Issue? BoDeans? Lemonheads? Lone Justice? The Darling Buds? Ned's Atomic Dustbin? SPIN's perennial band on the verge: Teenage Fanclub?

I'm sure Wolf will help me with the hair division: Firehouse? Thunder? I imagine nobody got cut from their labels' rosters faster than the hair bands. ("But we're junkies too!" they cried.)

Chad Ochoseis
Aug 14 2012 06:22 AM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

Funny. WFUV's question of the day this morning was about overlooked bands, which got me thinking about the BoDeans. And I probably haven't thought about the BoDeans in about fifteen years.

Anyway, Edie Brickell and the New Bohemians. Poi Dog Pondering.

sharpie
Aug 14 2012 07:29 AM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

But that's just the way the music business is.

I'm sure there are doo-wop fans that feel cheated because the wall of sound crowded them out and then the wall of sound people getting pissed off at the Beach Boys and surf music fans hating on the British Invasion and so on.

Timing is everything in pop music. If the Rolling Stones hadn't recorded "Brown Sugar" in 1970 and it was instead on their next album no one would pay any attention to it. People would think, "yeah, that's a good late Stones song" (though I don't know if the lyrics could pass muster any more).

All of that being said, I don't think any of the bands you cited would make the Hall. None had very long careers and while some had some critical acclaim none really made an impact on the public.

seawolf17
Aug 14 2012 07:50 AM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

Edgy DC wrote:
I'm sure Wolf will help me with the hair division: Firehouse? Thunder? I imagine nobody got cut from their labels' rosters faster than the hair bands. ("But we're junkies too!" they cried.)

As much as I would love to count both of those bands, I can't. Def Leppard is the first one that comes to mind in that particular genre. Motley Crue as well.

Tesla should have been bigger, but got lumped into the hair band category.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Aug 14 2012 08:10 AM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

By the time Nirvana came around I'd say that decent bands had been in hiding for 10 years. They get a lot of credit for sort of shaking things up and putting an end to the fake shit that everything else was buried beneath.

The BoDeans seemed to me to spend the grunge era searching everywhere for the sound that was supposed to make them huge, I'm not sure I'd say their greatness was obscured.

We've talked about Matthew Sweet in this context.

I was sort of coming out of a lengthy Bob Dylan haze in 1992 and moving toward more contemporary, "mature" male singer-songwriter shit at this point. But I'm not going to argue that Chris Isaak, Freedy Johnston, etc. shoulda/woulda been huge without Nirvana sucking up all attention.

Edgy MD
Aug 14 2012 08:30 AM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

sharpie wrote:
But that's just the way the music business is.

Absolutely. I'm not necessarily trying to claim an injustice needs to be righted --- or an injustice any more unjust than many that have come before. I just thought it an interesting thought experiment, being that they vanguarded (an actual verb?) a bigger musical revolution than any since the Beatles. Even MTV didn't re-write the rules as much as Nirvana did. In fact, Nirvana in many ways killed (or at least diminished) MTV, and they went from being a musical resource to being for the last 20 years a more-or-less generic deliverer of teen-oriented content.

What I didn't include was acts that had a nice run for 10-15 years that might have (they probably wouldn't have but never got the chance) tacked an impressive coda onto the meat of their careers (a la the B52s) had their market not dried up overnight: Billy Idol, Violent Femmes, Pat Benetar, etc.

Edgy MD
Aug 14 2012 08:38 AM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote:
By the time Nirvana came around I'd say that decent bands had been in hiding for 10 years. They get a lot of credit for sort of shaking things up and putting an end to the fake shit that everything else was buried beneath.

A handful of noiser veteran bands who could have caught the wave and used the Nirvana revolution to finally get their due packed it in at just the wrong time --- Replacements, Original Sins, Husker Du. Soul Asylum was a key exception and had their two biggest albums at the end of their careers thanks to Nirvana.

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote:
I was sort of coming out of a lengthy Bob Dylan haze in 1992 and moving toward more contemporary, "mature" male singer-songwriter shit at this point. But I'm not going to argue that Chris Isaak, Freedy Johnston, etc. shoulda/woulda been huge without Nirvana sucking up all attention.

I was thinking about Freedy in this context. He and Billy Bragg might have done well to position themselves Dylan-like as enigmatic figures aloof from the vagaries of the changing marketplace --- wear dark glasses and become superstars watching loudier sexier folks cover your brilliant songs.

Edgy MD
Aug 14 2012 09:06 AM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

Chad Ochoseis wrote:
Funny. WFUV's question of the day this morning was about overlooked bands, which got me thinking about the BoDeans. And I probably haven't thought about the BoDeans in about fifteen years.

Anyway, Edie Brickell and the New Bohemians. Poi Dog Pondering.


Not too many pop-folk acts had any more than brief run at the top since the seventies, no matter how long they work it --- 10,000 Maniacs, Suzanne Vega, Nanci Griffith, Michael Penn, Cowboy Junkies, even the Wallflowers/Jakob Dylan.

Tracy Chapman released a great followup to her self-titled breakthrough smash, but nobody cared because (I guess) folk acts don't change their sound and look fast enough. It wasn't until Chapman put out a Memphis soul album years later that she finally got another taste. And she's pretty great.

Vega extended her run a little by doing a pretty bold rock album with twitchy percussion by Jerry Marotta and squeaky guitars by David Hidalgo under her somber folk voice. It was a great radio-ready sound, but then she divorced her producer and that wasn't built on.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Aug 14 2012 10:53 AM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

Though they never quite reached the top, Indigo Girls had a nice, lengthy run in the "upper-middle."

I loved the second-act Vega stuff-- I'd argue that 99.9 is her best, and that Nine Objects of Desire isn't far behind.

As for the main question we're considering... well, does it not seem in retrospect that, if not Nirvana, it would have been something else providing unlikely radio hits and getting credit for "busting things up?"

Edgy MD
Aug 14 2012 11:10 AM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

I like to think that evolution rather than revolution could have happened.

Between rock turning to grunge, rap turning to gangsta rap, and R&B turning to obsessive sexual aggression, almost everything in the top ten for a dozen years --- save for the occasional Lee Ann Rimes --- was socially upsetting at some level. Nashville pretty much ran for the hills and a separatist enclave and Casey Kasem turned over AT40 to Shadoe Stevens. There was no genial pop market for fair play among the various pop genres. You were dangerous or ignored.

Or you were Hootie. But adult radio had few contemporary hits to choose from, bunkering up in the corner of your dial promising, "today's hits, with no rap and no hard stuff." They played Hootie and GooGoo Dolls all damn day.

Nirvana was an astounding act. But the revolution that they ushered really poisoned the well. I think Cobain knew that.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Aug 14 2012 11:37 AM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

I sometimes think that Live Aid is where it all what went wrong.

It became very uncool after that to make songs that were in any way fun -- you know, about girls or cars -- unless you were dressed up in neon spandex and couldn't be taken seriously anyway. So what Nirvana overthrew wasn't really subject matter but the look of those guys, plus, they helped bring real drums back. But the humorlessness was there for years by then.

Ashie62
Aug 14 2012 09:17 PM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

Dave McPhee and the Groundhogs..He taught Townshend.

Mets – Willets Point
Aug 16 2012 07:32 AM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

What about Living Colour?

TransMonk
Aug 16 2012 07:43 AM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

Mets – Willets Point wrote:
What about Living Colour?

I thought they were the shizznit for about 15 minutes in the late 80s.

They adjusted their sound to try to survive through the early 90s, but didn't quite make it.

Edgy MD
Aug 16 2012 07:47 AM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

Living Colour sort of splintered their way out of prominence, didn't they? They were loud and aggressive enough (and black enough) to still stand out after Guns 'n' Roses broke --- they were co-openers with GnR on the Rolling Stones Steel Wheels tour. They were second or third billing on the inaugural Lollapalooza tour, so they had cultural currency with the rising alternative zeitgeist revolution.

But in the Nirvana aftermath, they fired Muzz Skillings the same year Motley Crue fired Vince Neil and all the hair metal bands were firing somebody, and they didn't find their footing again. Their third album had a grungey name --- Stain --- and featured a photo of a woman in a brank...



... so you know they were trying to get with the macabre times, but it didn't do as well as they hoped. It had some Chili Peppers funky metal fusion thing with the bass taking some leads, and "Leave It Alone" got sufficient airplay, but maybe they waited too long between albums and came across as pretenders. They broke up in 1995.

I wouldn't say that they're particularly a band that grunge boxed out, so much as one that adapted to the challenges that grunge presented, but lost interest as they lost their center.

Maybe grunge advocates would never want to admit it, as tormented as they were by the state of America, but it was probably as hard to be black in the rock of the nineties as it was in the rock of the seventies or eighties.

TransMonk
Aug 16 2012 07:57 AM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

Wiki says they released albums in 2003 and 2009. I never knew...might have to take a listen this weekend.

I did know that Corey Glover played Judas in a touring production of Jesus Christ Superstar, which I'm sure was amazing. While he was gone, Doug Pinnick of King's X filled in for Glover with Living Colour.

Mets – Willets Point
Aug 16 2012 08:04 AM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

I was a big fan of Living Colour back in the day. I think I sense a very important poll coming up.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Aug 16 2012 08:22 AM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

Accompanied a die-hard Living Colour fan friend to see them sometime post-millennium in a New Haven-area club, supporting one of those early-aughts efforts.

For a band that had seemed to lose their interest-- songwriting- and recording-wise, anyway-- hey were QUITE locked-in.

seawolf17
Aug 16 2012 08:53 AM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

Their 2009 record is actually pretty good; don't know the earlier one.

metirish
Aug 16 2012 08:55 AM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

Blues Traveler, but I think they have a large live thing going on...


I remember the emergence of Living Color in Europe, they got a supporting role on the Stones Steel Wheels tour IIRC. They were touted as the black Stones .....whatever that means.

Edgy MD
Aug 16 2012 09:06 AM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

Apart form association, they weren't particularly analogous to the Stones.

The Black Stones weren't successors to the Stones, but predecessors.

TransMonk
Aug 16 2012 09:16 AM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

Speaking of black...could The Black Crowes be included in this thread?

Their heyday was right before Nirvava broke. I believe they had limited success in the 1992-1994 period, but their hippie rock definitely trailed off in the mid-90s and certainly didn't jibe with the Nu Rock sound of the late 90s. I know they have a cult following of dedicated fans, but nothing like the Dave Matthews band who hit the mainstream post-grunge.

Another band that may or may not fall into this category is Spin Doctors. They were signed to Sony/Epic and the rumor I heard back in the day was that they were one of a handful of bands that got screwed by being dropped when Sony sunk pretty much all of their financial and marketing efforts into mid-90s Michael Jackson comeback with the Dangerous and his greatest hits album.

Edgy MD
Aug 16 2012 09:18 AM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

The Crowes were ugly enough to survive grunge. They just had second album syndrome. Their problem was that the lead single from their followup was downtempo, disappointing, and the market moved on really really quick.

Spin Doctors, similarly, also had a huge smash but led off the follow-up with "Cleopatra's Favorite Cat" a meandering scat-singing track that nobody liked.

STOP OVERPLAYING YOUR HAND WITH DELIBERATE OVER-REACHES ON FOLLOWUP ALBUMS, GUYS! I'M LOOKING AT YOU, TOO, FAITH NO MORE!!

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Aug 16 2012 09:30 AM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

Spin Doctors were a good example of how grunge poisoned the well. Not that they sucked or didn't suck, but that grunge made the idea of a band whose singer smiled when he performed so fucking uncool, even if he was smiling because he smoked a lot of weed just before the video shoot.

seawolf17
Aug 16 2012 09:41 AM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

Saw Spin Doctors at Jones Beach back in the day. Cracker and... Gin Blossoms(?) opened. Cracker blew everyone off the stage; they were amazing. The second act (Gin Blossoms? Soul Asylum?) were very good. Spin Doctors came out, started doing trippy noodley crap, and half the place got up and left three songs in. It's the only show I've ever left early. They were awful.

Cracker actually is an interesting fit, although they didn't really hit until later too.

Faith No More could have been huger, but Jim Martin left after "Angel Dust" (which is very good, better than "The Real Thing") and they never found new mojo.

Ugly Kid Joe could have been more than a one-hit wonder too.

TransMonk
Aug 16 2012 09:47 AM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

Fucking Cracker...yeah! I still listen to them today. I put them in the post-grunge category, but they did have songs that made me smile.

How do the Chili Peppers fit into this scenario? As a band who started out before Nirvana, they saw plenty of success afterward. They weren't grunge...but they did latch on to the scene. One of the few bands to get out of the poisoned well due to right-place-right-time?

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Aug 16 2012 09:53 AM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

Chili Peppers owe their astounding success to young bi-curious guys who were turned on by fools performing in their tight whiteys.

TransMonk
Aug 16 2012 09:58 AM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

There is now Tropical Blend Crystal Light Pure all over my work monitor. Good call.

Edgy MD
Aug 16 2012 11:34 AM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

TransMonk wrote:
How do the Chili Peppers fit into this scenario?

Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Famers.

They had their junkie lowlife cred firmly in place long before grunge.

TransMonk
Aug 16 2012 11:55 AM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

Yeah, I guess there wasn't really much of any other kind of cred at the time.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Aug 16 2012 06:35 PM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

Loved that Cracker... it's like whatshisface (Lowery?) from Camper Van Beethoven got a fuzzbox for his birthday, and was like, "Hey, what does this do?"

Edgy MD
Aug 16 2012 07:10 PM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

I just recently found out that guys from two of my favorite lost circa-1990 bands --- Mark Linkous of Dancing Hoods and Bob Rupe of The Silos --- ended up in Sparklehorse for the nineties. Sprakehorse is a band I know nuttin' about, but now I'm going to have to do some digging.

In fact, Bob Rupe also did a tenure with... Cracker.

Swan Swan H
Aug 16 2012 07:14 PM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

I saw Sparklehorse open for R.E.M., but that's all I got.

Edgy MD
Aug 17 2012 06:58 AM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

Edgy DC wrote:
I just recently found out that guys from two of my favorite lost circa-1990 bands --- Mark Linkous of Dancing Hoods and Bob Rupe of The Silos --- ended up in Sparklehorse for the nineties. Sprakehorse is a band I know nuttin' about, but now I'm going to have to do some digging.

In fact, Bob Rupe also did a tenure with... Cracker.


And Linkous ended up shooting himself in the chest.

Damn you, nineties!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Aug 17 2012 01:41 PM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

I could still give a listen to either of the first two Sparklehorse efforts.

Mets – Willets Point
Aug 17 2012 02:38 PM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Sparklehorse.

Ashie62
Aug 21 2012 09:41 PM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

Blotto! "I wanna be your lifeguard.

Edgy MD
Aug 22 2012 06:23 AM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

While Blotto is indeed a band that time forgot, they were pretty much done by 1984.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Aug 22 2012 06:27 AM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

HINT: Read the first post and/or others' posts before posting yourself. Reading is instructive!

Mets – Willets Point
Aug 28 2012 06:25 PM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

I'm wondering if another group of victims would be the bands of the Madchester scene - The Stone Roses, The Happy Mondays, Charlatans, Inspiral Carpets, James, et al. They were the big thing among the alternative/college rock set in the two years prior to "Smells Like Teen Spirit" which coincided with my last two years of high school. Of course, they were pretty big in the UK but maybe worldwide success was on the horizon before Manchester was cold-cocked by Seattle. Or maybe it just collapsed all on its own.

While not from Manchester, similar bands that embraced grooves, synths and samples had crossover hits in the summer prior to Nirvana's emergence - Jesus Jones and EMF. Again, they may have ended up one-hit wonders regardless (and I'm not going to argue they deserved greater fame) but grunge seemed to eliminate anything with a dance beat rising to the top for a few years too.

seawolf17
Aug 28 2012 07:06 PM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

[youtube:1lmym6ju]H6AxR81kjIo[/youtube:1lmym6ju]

Man, there are some great memories linked to the bands in that post. LOVED that Inspiral Carpets song in college; one of those tunes I tried to find space to play on my radio show regularly. Loved "Can't Get Out Of Bed" by the Charlatans too.

Mets – Willets Point
Aug 28 2012 07:25 PM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

Also not from Manchester, but stylistically similar, I love this track by The Farm.
[youtube:3trfx6dh]In75rgGsp4A[/youtube:3trfx6dh]

seawolf17
Aug 28 2012 07:36 PM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

Butch Walker segued James's "Laid" -- easily their best-known tune -- into one of his own tunes, "Taste of Red," a few tours ago. Mp3 among the six free tracks here:

http://archive.org/details/ButchWalker- ... -SummerJam

Frayed Knot
Aug 28 2012 08:18 PM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

Time that bands forgot


Swan Swan H
Sep 12 2012 08:50 AM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

Edgy DC, inspiring bloggers everywhere:

[url]http://www.avclub.com/articles/1992-the-year-college-rock-died,84832/

Edgy MD
Sep 12 2012 08:55 AM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

And what of Miracle Legion, The White Animals, The Judybats, The Connells, True Believers, The Long Ryders, The Del Fuegos, Rank & File, Translator, Game Theory, Guadalcanal Diary, Fetchin’ Bones, or 54-40?


I'd visit that Hall of Fame.

soupcan
Sep 12 2012 09:14 AM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

Put me down as a Cracker fan as well.

Was just looking at all the tracks on both albums that I have ('Cracker' & 'Kerosene Hat'), trying to pick out the good ones.

I might as well just list all of them.

Mets – Willets Point
Sep 12 2012 10:08 AM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

soupcan wrote:
Put me down as a Cracker fan as well.


Me too. I nominate "Euro-Trash Girl" for the best hidden bonus track of all the hidden bonus tracks from the 1990s hidden bonus track fad.

seawolf17
Sep 12 2012 10:59 AM
Re: The Bands that Time Forgot

Mets – Willets Point wrote:
soupcan wrote:
Put me down as a Cracker fan as well.


Me too. I nominate "Euro-Trash Girl" for the best hidden bonus track of all the hidden bonus tracks from the 1990s hidden bonus track fad.


Seconded.