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Stories on Prog Rock - Long Read

metirish
Aug 16 2012 08:26 AM

David Weigel writing on Slate has presented some really great reading on the history and demise of prog rock, here is part 1.

I don't know that everything he is saying is true but it is an excellent series.

Prog Spring
Entry 1: Before it was a joke, prog was the future of rock ‘n’ roll.


By David Weigel|Posted Tuesday, Aug. 14, 2012, at 3:45 AM ET


The death of real rock ‘n’ roll began one morning in 1964, at the Organ Center in the southern England city of Portsmouth. Keith Emerson, 19, had 200 pounds to spend on a keyboard. He had options. But he got distracted by something bigger, more beautiful, and beyond his means.

“There it was,” he remembers in his autobiography, “resplendent in beautiful shining mahogany—the Hammond L 100 electric organ. I played it.” He heard the warm tones, engineered to sound like they came from pipes, but with distinctive warm hums. “That was the sound.”

Emerson had noodled around with the Hammond before. The L 100, rolled out in 1961, imitated the sound of a church organ by placing 96 metal tonewheels in front of 96 electromagnetic pick-ups. The tonewheels rotated, charging the pick-ups, generating the sound. Two keyboards shared space with nine “drawbars”—move the bars, change the sound of your notes. Jazz musicians used this, as did (somewhat less inspirationally) the nice old ladies who played during the dull sections of ballgames.

Some people could afford to put the cost of a small car into an organ. Emerson couldn’t. He had all the training, years of piano and music lessons. The Royal Academy of Music had offered him a place, which he’d turned down, working instead for a bank, gigging with jazz and rock groups. Emerson contemplated what the Hammond could do for him. Could he quit the bank, gig full-time? His father, who’d joined him on the shopping trip, broke in—“You’ve got to have it”—and paid the price difference.

By 1967, Emerson was touring with the Jimi Hendrix Experience and Pink Floyd, and composing the first long classical-rock symphony. By 1970, he was one-third of a super-group that could sell out Madison Square Garden and summon 350,000 people to the Ontario (California) Speedway, possibly the biggest single concert of the 1970s.


Keith Emerson's Moog synthesizer
Marc Bonilla / Keyboard Magazine


And by 1977, Keith Emerson was, to critics and a new generation of fans, the wince-inducing icon of progressive rock. Prog. And prog, thanks to the heroic efforts of the culture-gatekeepers, was deader than Elvis locked in King Tut’s sarcophagus and spit out of an airlock.

You can’t completely kill an art form. Even if a musical genre becomes despised, it endures—on master tapes, on cut-out LPs, on Spotify or MP3-trade fora. Simon Reynolds describes how the “massive, super-available archive” gifted to us by the Internet allows anyone to rediscover anything, and pop music to gnaw its own tail. Hip-hop artists, our cultural magpies, comb through prog’s greatest hits to sample its stranger riffs and lost organ bleats. Modern, prog-influenced acts like Dream Theater and Porcupine Tree can sell out midsized venues.

But if ever a form of popular music dropped dead suddenly, it was prog. Progressive rock essentially disappeared, and has remained in obscurity for 35 years, ridiculed by rock snobs, ignored by fans, its most famous artists—Yes, King Crimson, ELP, Jethro Tull—catchphrases for pretentious excess.

Rock historians wished it all away. The Rock Snob’s Dictionary, originally serialized in Vanity Fair, defined prog as the “single most deplored genre of postwar pop music.” Rolling Stone’s quasi-annual “best albums ever” lists include some Pink Floyd albums, but disregard all other prog. When a Funkadelic or Foghat or Blondie song appears in a movie, it says “1970s.” Prog doesn’t often appear in movies unless they’re directed by Vincent Gallo, and when it does it’s as a goof—think of Dr. Venture playing prog for his son in The Venture Brothers, then panicking when the kid gets stuck in a “Floyd Hole.” Also, please ask a fan how he (yes, usually he) feels about Yes and ELP and Jethro Tull being stonewalled from the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame while the Red Hot Chili Peppers —the Red Hot Chili Peppers—make it in.

But prog was fabulously popular for years—and for years, critics liked it. It was more arty and ambitious than anything else in rock. Rolling Stone panned Led Zeppelin’s output and raved about the first Emerson Lake & Palmer record—“such a good album it is best heard as a whole,” wrote Loyd Grossman.

Time to declare my bias. I like this music. I also understand why it’s an easy punch line. When I talked to prog artists and producers for these stories, I learned that they, too, understood their reduced role in pop history. Keith Emerson has seen the sketch that portrays him as a keyboard-toting medieval warrior who travels with 200 mules. “It was like they knew me,” he says. Hubris is funny.

But hubris is also compelling. We praise enormous, magisterial novels informed by the classic literary canon. We love huge movies that attempt never-before-accomplished technical feats. In music, though, many fans prize “authenticity”—the gritty allure of the untrained, instinctual rock star—more than they prize virtuosity or ambition. Say what you want about Icarus, but he was making an innovative use of wax and feathers. We’re too hard on the artists who try big things, show off their prowess, and occasionally screw it all up.

The laugh-and-gawk-and-parody approach is fun but doesn’t explain why this music was popular, much less why critics liked it. Progressive rock, in its various forms, evolved out of psychedelia, out of classical music, and out of jazz fusion. In every case, its practitioners became obsessed with sounds and technologies and song structures and took them as far as they could. Pop songs became four- or five-part pop symphonies, with preludes and codas and repeating themes. Wasn’t this where music was supposed to go?
***

[youtube]TLs3kLFkOQE&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

That brings us back to Keith Emerson and the birth pangs of prog. In the mid-1960s, owning your own organ—and being able to play anything on it—was enough to land steady long-term gigs with bands. He signed up with the T-Bones, then the VIPs, capable bluesy outfits that gave him plenty of show-off time. A 1966 video of the T-Bones captures the band working out a rudimentary, mini-shirt-moving groove. (A sample lyric: “I know, baby!/ Come on, baby!”)

The band chugs along from guitar solo to trumpet solo, until Emerson gets to play. He’s got the fastest hands of anyone up there. He bobs and dances, and two girls behind him start dancing to catch up. When the full band returns, Emerson’s basically written a faster, bolder song.

Was he inventing anything in the mid-‘60s? Melodically, no, not yet. The jazz pianists that he really admired, like Dave Brubeck, played just as fast. Emerson innovated in other ways. At one show on their 1966 tour, as the VIPs toured northern France, a fight broke out in the audience. Another band might have stopped. The VIPs, though, heard Emerson messing around with the mechanics of his Hammond to make unearthly, violent noise. The band’s music was replaced by “air raid sirens” and “machine gun sounds,” the products of Emerson’s experiments with his poor tortured device. Soon enough the fight was over.


The Nice: Keith Emerson, Lee Jackson, Brian Davison, David O'List.
from the private collection of Davy O'List


Emerson found work next with the soul singer P.P. Arnold, an American who’d stuck around Britain and found a poppy, freak-beat sound. This was where Emerson put together the band that Arnold would name “The Nice”—Emerson, Lee Jackson, Brian “Blinky” Davison, Davy O’List. Their timing was perfect. In February 1967 ,the Beatles released the “Penny Lane”/ “Strawberry Fields Forever” double A-side single, with Paul McCartney on Mellotron and George Martin on cello. In May, Procol Harum put out “A Whiter Shade of Pale,” carried along by organist Matthew Fisher’s warm, overwhelming rip from Bach’s “Air on the G String.” In November, the Moody Blues released Days of Future Passed, a temporal concept album (“Lunch Break, Peak Hour”; “Twilight Time”; “Nights in White Satin”) blown up to circus size by the London Festival Orchestra.

From our vantage point, in 2012, the “rock record with classical ambition” is a cute experiment. You do it when you’ve already made your money. Metallica, meet London Philharmonic. But in those days, selling the public on this stuff was easy. Procol didn’t rescue Bach from music school; as organist Fisher pointed out to me, in 1967, “Air” was in ready rotation on British TV, as the theme from a Hamlet cigars commercial. Emerson could plug classical and jazz themes into the Nice’s songs because the crowds loved them. The centerpiece of band’s first record, The Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack, was “Rondo,” a cover of the Dave Brubeck Quartet’s “Blue Rondo à la Turk.” The Nice turned it into a rock song, by switching from a stutter-start 9/8 time to 4/4.

“We were lucky,” remembers O’List. “Jimi Hendrix came to one of the gigs and invited us on tour.” The “first psychedelic tour” of Britain came in 1967—40 minutes for Hendrix, 17 minutes for Pink Floyd, 12 minutes for them—turned the Nice into headliners. “Rondo” killed.

How to classify the original sound of the Nice? It was psychedelic, with suitably space-cadet lyrics and Hendrix-esque guitar solos by O’List. But Hendrix was bluesy. The Nice had no use for that. “The basic policy of the group is that we're a European group,” explained lead singer Jackson in a 1968 International Times interview. “So, we're improvising on European structures. Improvisation can be around any form of music, so we're taking European work. We're not American Negros, so we can't really improvise and feel the way they can.”

Jackson was describing one of the reasons that critics would turn on prog. This was English music. English music wasn’t rock. The Nice’s live show, though, was absolutely rock. Emerson, still fooling with the Hammond, realized that a flat object, if wedged between the keys, could hold them down, playing notes that grew more and more distorted even as Emerson played another instrument. Emerson used spoons at first, then knives. One Nice roadie, he remembers in his memoir, “had a great collection of German army knives and gave me two Hitler Youth daggers, saying, ‘Beats the shit out of the British Boy Scouts. If you’re gonna use one, use a serious one.’” (The roadie, Lemmy Kilmeister, would go on to join Hawkwind, then to found Motörhead.) The effect: Emerson seemed to be murdering his instrument onstage.

“There’s a new group called the Nice—who are,” quipped Nick Jones in the September 1967 issue of Rolling Stone. “The group is led by organist Keith Emerson who plays like a groovy astronaut orbiting around everything. … If your eyes are open, you’ll soon be digging these guys.” Melody Maker gave readers lengthy read-outs on the band’s look—“leather and suede, fringed leather jackets, and trousers that disappear into tight thigh boots”—and pronounced 1968 “the Year of the Nice.”

[youtube]=Dg9jHTYZ-6U&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

The band took itself seriously. On June 5, after Robert F. Kennedy was shot, Emerson thought about the allegorical power of the song the band was rehearsing – Leonard Bernstein’s “America,” from West Side Story. “If Bob Dylan could make protest songs, why shouldn’t we?” he asked himself. “It could be the first protest instrumental.”

In the hands of Emerson, Jackson, Davison and O’List, “America” lasted 6 minutes and 21 seconds. The first sounds on it: dark organ chords, wailing chorus, muffled gunshots, screams. The last sounds: A 3-year old girl nervously saying, “America is pregnant with promise and anticipation, but is murdered by the hand of the inevitable!” Folded right in the middle of all that was a staccato figure from the 4th movement of Dvorak’s New World symphony. Here was Broadway, here was classical, wrenched into 1968 and given pomp and purpose. On June 26, when the Nice played the Royal Albert Hall, Jackson screamed the “America is pregnant” line—the cue for Emerson to set fire to an American flag.

How do you top that? Emerson decided to write a symphony. It would be called “Ars Longa, Vita Brevis” —Latin for “Art is long, life is short,” and the motto of Lee Jackson’s grammar school. It was built out of pieces collected from here and there: a section of Bach’s Brandenburg concertos, an eight-minute psychedelic freak-out titled “Ars Longa Vita Brevis,” an excellent seven-note hook from Davy O’List’s guitar. But O’List, so key to the old Nice sound, was fired while recording the album after forgetting to show up for a gig. (At one point, remembered Emerson, O’List had been so out of it he’d started “crumbling a chocolate bar over tobacco in mistake for the real thing.” List does not dispute this.) The band was more serious now. Seriousness meant a piece with a prelude, four movements, and a coda.

The first sound on “Ars Longa Vita Brevis” is a minor chord, played by the British Chamber Orchestra. The second sound is a six-note run up Emerson’s Hammond. Two more doomy chords from the orchestra. Back to the Hammond. The notes run together, fast, as the guy in the leather pants races the men in bow ties. He’s louder than them, but he has a reason. While recording “Ars Longa,” Emerson ducked into the bathroom and overheard two members of the orchestra whining about the indignity of the gig. “I can’t believe the tempo they’re taking on the Brandenburg,” sighed one of them. “It’s way too fast.” Emerson finished his business, returned to the organ, and cranked up the volume.

The prelude ends after two minutes, rung out by a gong. The first movement, “Awakening,” is a nearly three-minute drum solo. It’s ambitious and totally misguided—the listener falls right out of the melody, into a confusing world of timpani hits and repetitive rolls. Critics of prog would eventually point to the interminable drum solos in making their case, and this one is a helpful reminder why.

Then comes the O’List guitar lick, salvaged even though he’d been fired from the band. The second movement, “Realisation,” is a pop song with vocals, and a lyric that Jackson practically spits out.

Ars Longa Vita Brevis
A caption to a life of bliss
A rose too beautiful to see
Jumped off the bush to speak to me
Of life that's an ill-cast comedy
For fools

That’s more bitter sarcasm than listeners signed up for when buying a “psychedelic” record. But there’s not much more of a lyric to analyze—after three minutes Emerson’s organ and keyboard take charge again, playing out the seven-note theme, until he replaces it with the Bach melody in “Acceptance (Brandenburger).” The concerto excerpt is played by organ, bass, and drum—and then, by elements of the orchestra. It’s tough to discern where this ends and the final movement, “Denial,” begins. But the original theme re-emerges. Emerson et al. have tied the song together, and completed their symphony.

Immediate Records, the Nice’s label in the United Kingdom, decided to sell this as a serious work of art—with Keith Emerson as the genius behind it. He wrote his own ultra-serious ad copy. “Newton’s first law of motion states a body will remain at rest or continue with uniform motion in a straight line unless acted upon by force,” he proclaimed in bold white text on black background. “This time the force happened to come from a European source. Ours is an extension of the original Allegro from Brandenburg Concerto No. 3.” “If Bach were alive today,” Emerson told Melody Maker, “he would be playing like Keith Jarrett.”


Davy O’List, perhaps not entirely over his firing, sees the band’s pretentious later incarnation as evidence they’d lost their touch. His guitar had once filled out their sound. Jackson couldn’t sing “rock,” O’List thought, as well as he could. “The part of ‘Ars Longa’ that worked was the part we wrote together,” he tells me. “The Nice had reached the pinnacle of their success all over the world by the time America was a hit in the charts,” he told another interviewer in 2007. “I don’t think I missed anything.”

But the post-guitar sound of the Nice was new. When the band played “Ars Longa” live, that ropey first-movement drum solo would get standing ovations. The Nice were playing bigger crowds in further corners of Europe and the States. It’s true that “Brandenburger,” released as a single, didn’t reach the Top 10 like “America” had. But single sales were mattering less and less: 1968 was the first year that album sales outpaced them in Britain and the United States. Listeners had bought plenty of pop; now they were ready for pomp, played by people who threw knives at Hammond organs, then picked them up to stab the instruments.

“Ars Longa” became the title of the Nice’s second record. The cover portrayed Emerson, O’List, and Jackson as interlocked skeletons with brightly colored organs. To get that photo, the three were injected with mildly radioactive solutions, then X-rayed. When Emerson got photographed, he learned that he’d broken two ribs.
“You break ribs playing keyboards?” asked his doctor. “I wouldn’t have considered it such a hazardous occupation.”
“Depends how you play ‘em,” said Emerson.

metirish
Aug 16 2012 08:28 AM
Re: Stories on Prog Rock - Long Read

Part 2

Entry 2: The rise of prog, music never meant for “the average person.”

metirish
Aug 16 2012 08:42 AM
Re: Stories on Prog Rock - Long Read

Part 3


Entry 3: Rotating drums! A $5,000 Persian rug! Quad sound! Inside ELP’s legendary 1973 Madison Square Garden concerts

Vic Sage
Aug 16 2012 09:39 AM
Re: Stories on Prog Rock - Long Read

Thanks for this series. I still love this music... ELP, Gabriel's GENESIS, KING CRIMSON, YES, TULL, FLOYD, RENAISSANCE, MOODY BLUES...
I even liked some of the late 70s power pop bands derived from them (at least in part), like QUEEN, KANSAS, STYX and SUPERTRAMP

its excesses and eccentricities fused with its ambition and technical virtuosity to take me on an amazing journey, full of surprises around every aural corner. It formed the soundtrack of my adolescence, making it all somehow bearable (That "Tarkus" cover sure brought me back).

The fact that "prog rock" got so villified later, particularly by the punk/new wave bands who offered (or were held up by critics as representing) a regression to a sparer, purer form of rock n roll, made me reject much of that late 70s-80s music, some of which i only came back to in later years. And yes, the ongoing disrespect from critics and the HOF (who've excluded all but a few of these bands, despite their success and impact on the history of the music and the culture) is a continuing source of personal irritation. so its nice to see a series like this, which tries to put its history on the record.

so to speak.

sharpie
Aug 16 2012 10:07 AM
Re: Stories on Prog Rock - Long Read

I'm with Vic. I still love some of that music but I think everyone loves what they loved as teenagers.

I saw that 1974 ELP tour that is the focus of the third part of the series (twice, once in San Francisco and once in New Jersey) and still would rank that as easily one of my best concert memories and I happily listen to King Crimson and will argue their merits with anyone, anytime (the pre-Adrian Belew King Crimson, I have no love for the later band).

I was also a fan of the Nice who are mostly forgotten so the first part of this series also resonated with me.

The punk movement killed this music. There is the tension in rock between trying to stretch the genre and then tearing it down to "get back to basics."

sharpie
Aug 16 2012 10:14 AM
Re: Stories on Prog Rock - Long Read

Part 4

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/prog ... _yes_.html

Vic Sage
Aug 16 2012 10:34 AM
Re: Stories on Prog Rock - Long Read

i think you undersell the Belew version of CRIMSON. I was at Stony Brook during that period, and they played there on the DISCIPLINE tour, with a lineup of guitarists Belew and Robert Fripp, backed by the amazing bassist Tony Levin (playing that "Chapman Stick" bass i saw him play behind Peter Gabriel) and legendary "YES" drummer Bill Bruford. It combined Fripp and Bruford's impulses with Belew's tighter, new wavy influence. The followup albums, BEAT and THREE OF A PERFECT PAIR, weren't nearly as good, nor was any of it as good as CRIMSON at its peak, but DISCIPLINE still holds up and is a terrific album.

sharpie
Aug 16 2012 11:14 AM
Re: Stories on Prog Rock - Long Read

I also saw that Adrien Belew band (3 times actually, the "Larks Tongues/Starless/Red" band twice) and they were fine but I was irked that they never played anything from the earlier catalog. Yes, "Discipline" isn't a bad album but it sounded to me like lesser Talking Heads.

RealityChuck
Aug 16 2012 12:51 PM
Re: Stories on Prog Rock - Long Read

I was a big fan of prog rock (still am) and this is a great series. The issue was that some in the genre had become big and bombastic (not all -- I tended toward the Canterbury scene bands like Soft Machine at that point), and punk came along to sneer at that. But the idea of combining rock with classical was never fully explored.

My favorites were Soft Machine and Pink Floyd (who I saw live just after Meddle came out), but there were some great albums from ELP, King Crimson, Premiata Forneria Marconi, Yes (at first), Rick Wakeman, Tangerine Dream (especially their film scores), and Jethro Tull (also saw live).

Everyone thinks it was self-indulgent, but that's just another term for "any song longer than three minutes" in the short-attention-span generation. Or they mention drugs, though I never had to get stoned to appreciate it.

I like a lot of punk, too, but it's biggest crime is killing progressive (yes, it still exists, but with a very limited audience).

seawolf17
Aug 16 2012 12:58 PM
Re: Stories on Prog Rock - Long Read

As hard as I've tried, I can't get into the older prog. Crimson, Rush, Yes, etc. do nothing for me. Newer prog, though? Dream Theater is one of my favorite bands of all time.

Fman99
Aug 17 2012 05:07 AM
Re: Stories on Prog Rock - Long Read

I enjoy some of it (songs like "Close to the Edge" and "Awaken" by Yes, for example, and a good portion of Rush's and Jethro Tull's catalogs), but the longer, more abstract stuff is just too arrhythmic/a melodic for me.

RealityChuck
Aug 17 2012 06:57 AM
Re: Stories on Prog Rock - Long Read

Other then their first album, King Crimson was overrated. Rush really wasn't progressive. Yes was at their best in their early work; as the latest installment of the series pointed out, their Tales of Topographic Oceans was the death knell of the genre.

My list of best progressive rock albums includes:

Soft Machine, Volume 2
Soft Machine, Third (probably the best of them all)
Soft Machine, Fourth
Jethro Tull, Aqualung
Jethro Tull, Thick as a Brick
King Crimson, In the Court of the Crimson King
Renaissance, Renaissance (This is an entirely different group -- literally -- from the Annie Halsam era; not a single band member carried over, and the sound was quite different)
Emerson Lake and Palmer, Emerson Lake and Palmer
Emerson Lake and Palmer, Pictures at an Exhibition
Emerson Lake and Palmer, Brain Salad Surgery
Mike Oldfield, Tubular Bells
Jeff Wayne's Musical Verson of War of the Worlds.

Vic Sage
Aug 17 2012 07:58 AM
Re: Stories on Prog Rock - Long Read

wow, chuck, we've found something to agree on!

Frayed Knot
Aug 17 2012 08:01 AM
Re: Stories on Prog Rock - Long Read

Who was the artist that did all the YES album art that graced the dorm rooms of stoners everywhere?

Vic Sage
Aug 17 2012 08:07 AM
Re: Stories on Prog Rock - Long Read

Roger Dean.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Dean_%28artist%29

Frayed Knot
Aug 17 2012 08:14 AM
Re: Stories on Prog Rock - Long Read

That's the guy, his stuff seemed everywhere for a while.
Hadn't thought about him in years until this thread reminded me.

sharpie
Aug 17 2012 08:48 AM
Re: Stories on Prog Rock - Long Read

Part 5:

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/prog ... prog_.html

Gotta disagree with Chuck on King Crimson. The Larks Tongues in Aspic and Starless and Bible Black are both great albums and there is worthwhile material on their other early stuff. I agree with his Yes-assessment.

Agree on the Soft Machine, their first two albums have great stuff on it and I like their next few instrumental albums.

I like the pre-Aqualung Jethro Tull better than the later band which got way too full of itself although both Aqualung and Thick As a Brick are worthwhile.

Yes to the first Renaissance album.

First ELP album, Trilogy, Brain Salad Surgery. Pictures at an Exhibition, not so much.

Tubular Bells, sure.

I don't know the Jeff Wayne album.

Rush I have no use for. Nor any American prog. It's a British form.

Vic Sage
Aug 17 2012 09:48 AM
Re: Stories on Prog Rock - Long Read

Rush I have no use for. Nor any American prog. It's a British form.


you're entitled of course, but i think that's just silly. Rock n Roll was an American form. Did that mean you dismissed the British Invasion rock bands of the 60s that were so influenced by 50s American rock n roll because "what do those Brits know? Its an American form!" I doubt it.

Progressive Rock isn't monolithic. While i too have no interest in Rush, its not because they're American (actually they're Canadian; but i get the point that they're non-British). It's because Geddy Lee sounds like he's been sucking helium since age 12, and the band leans more to metal than i like. Early KANSAS, on the other hand, is more to my taste. I also thought Todd Rundgren did some interesting stuff with UTOPIA, who i saw open for Tull on the "stormwatch" tour at MSG in the early 80s. I'll even admit to an affection for STYX, probably disproportionate to their quality.

But when i think of Progressive Rock, i'm talking about bands that are concerned with technical virtuosity, artistic ambition (often incorporating disparate musical forms), grandiosity of spirit and themes, and a general disinterest in producing 3-minute pop songs (though not necessarily excluding them from their repetoire entirely). Their music may be based on European orchestral traditions, but don't HAVE to be, sometimes preferring Jazz or folk traditions instead of (or in addition to) classical elements. Mostly it is a style in reaction to the minimally interesting commercial radio-based pop songs of the day, with little ambition or technique, 3-minutes songs about girls and hot rods with 3 chords as disposable as chewing gum.

Wherever the band comes from.

Edgy MD
Aug 17 2012 09:54 AM
Re: Stories on Prog Rock - Long Read

You're all wrong. Progressive rock is a Greek form.

Mets – Willets Point
Aug 17 2012 09:59 AM
Re: Stories on Prog Rock - Long Read

Vic Sage wrote:
It's because Geddy Lee sounds like he's been sucking helium since age 12,


"Decent singing, eh?"

Vic Sage
Aug 17 2012 10:00 AM
Re: Stories on Prog Rock - Long Read

i love Vangelis's work... well, SOME of Vangelis's work.
I particularly liked the collaborations he had with Jon Anderson in the early 80s, in addition to his BLADERUNNER soundtrack.

Vic Sage
Aug 17 2012 10:03 AM
Re: Stories on Prog Rock - Long Read

Mets – Willets Point wrote:
Vic Sage wrote:
It's because Geddy Lee sounds like he's been sucking helium since age 12,


"Decent singing, eh?"


take off, ya hoser!

sharpie
Aug 17 2012 10:14 AM
Re: Stories on Prog Rock - Long Read

I'll give you Todd Rundgren's Utopia.

I go back to Keith Emerson's quote in part one of the long article regarding the Nice: that they weren't trading on American blues/jazz forms like other bands, that they were using strictly European precedents. Of course that's wrong since they were a rock band and rock is American but he had a bit of a point that standard blues changes weren't part of their repertoire.

It's not that Americans couldn't play prog rock it's just that I don't like any of the American bands that did (excepting Utopia). Kansas never did it for me and Styx was a Chicago blues band who got signed to ELP's Manticore label. Had that not happened they wouldn't be talked of in this category.

Edgy MD
Aug 17 2012 10:21 AM
Re: Stories on Prog Rock - Long Read

Or maybe it's a Welsh form.

RealityChuck
Aug 17 2012 08:43 PM
Re: Stories on Prog Rock - Long Read

Jeff Wayne's Musical Version of War of the Worlds may have had the clunkiest title in the history of rock, but it's not only good music, but it's also the most faithful adaptation of the book in any media. Wayne wrote the music and got together an all-star band including Justin Hayward of the Moody Blues, Phil Lynott of Thin Lizzy, David Essex ("Rock On"), and sessions specialists Chris Spedding and Herbie Flowers. The narration was by Richard Burton (who did not indulge his penchant for overacting).

Here's the best-known song from it, "Forever Autumn," a UK hit, though it's a little out of place in the narrative.

[youtube]WungvhcG6JI[/youtube]

More dramatic is "Thunder Child."

[youtube]QkjKQmjLLxY[/youtube]

Here's the entire thing:

[youtube]kqvffGlJWCU[/youtube]

More albums I forgot to list:

Moody Blues, Days of Future Past
Moody Blues, On the Threshold of a Dream
Moody Blues, To Our Children's Children's Children
Moody Blues, A Question of Balance
Procol Harum, Procol Harum
Procol Harum, Shine on Brightly
Procol Harum, A Salty Dog

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Aug 18 2012 09:46 PM
Re: Stories on Prog Rock - Long Read

There's no way I'm gonna make it through a five-part series of lengthy articles on prog-rock (how ironic is that?) but today I listened to 2 early ELO albums, Eldorado and Face the Music. I think stylistically they were both proggy, though the latter engaged in maybe a bit too much melody to qualify (Evil Woman and Strange Magic were hits). Prog or not?

sharpie
Aug 19 2012 07:55 AM
Re: Stories on Prog Rock - Long Read

I remember ads for the first ELO album, "No Answer", as being for those who loved "I am the Walrus" or "Strawberry Fields Forever."

That was enough for teenaged me. I bought the album because of that promise and because I liked Jeff Lynne's previous band, The Move. I also bought their second album with their string arrangement of "Roll Over Beethoven" and their third, "Eldorado" which was a hit album and had their first hit song, "I Can't Get It Out of My Head."

That was it for me and ELO. "Eldorado" was the beginning of their hit-making sound and while I didn't mind their singles they never really did it for me.

Prog rock? No. Their thing was never about their virtuosity. They started out as pseudo-psychedelic mixed with Brit pub-rock and became, well, what they became.

The Second Spitter
Aug 19 2012 04:31 PM
Re: Stories on Prog Rock - Long Read

sharpie wrote:

That was enough for teenaged me. I bought the album because of that promise and because I liked Jeff Lynne's previous band, The Move. I also bought their second album with their string arrangement of "Roll Over Beethoven" and their third, "Eldorado" which was a hit album and had their first hit song, "I Can't Get It Out of My Head."

That was it for me and ELO. "Eldorado" was the beginning of their hit-making sound and while I didn't mind their singles they never really did it for me.


"I Can't Get It Out of My Head" was complicit in murdering my career as a lawyer and for that I will always be grateful to ELO. I wouldn't hesitate in classifying them as prog, but that's just me.

Vic Sage
Aug 20 2012 08:38 AM
Re: Stories on Prog Rock - Long Read

Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Aug 20 2012 09:33 AM

a Brit rock band from the early 70s, basing some of its material on classical elements, they were quintessential Prog Rock. The problem wasn't that they weren't prog; the problem was they sucked. It was not just the lack of virtuosity. Jeff Lynne used a lot of orchestral strings and woodwinds to give his sound a baroque sound, greatly influenced by SGT PEPPER, but the songs and the records were never really GRAND, in terms of their scope, ambition, themes, running time, anything. They were banal, practically elevator Muzak. That didn't make them NOT prog. it made them BAD prog.

Vic Sage
Aug 20 2012 08:42 AM
Re: Stories on Prog Rock - Long Read

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote:
There's no way I'm gonna make it through a five-part series of lengthy articles on prog-rock (how ironic is that?) but today I listened to 2 early ELO albums, Eldorado and Face the Music. I think stylistically they were both proggy, though the latter engaged in maybe a bit too much melody to qualify (Evil Woman and Strange Magic were hits). Prog or not?


i think that's a back hand slap at prog there, jonny. Lots of it was melodic. The problem with ELO wasn't that it was melodic, it was that much of it (especially after Eldorado) was more interested in creating radio-friendly pop songs than following their muse. I don't think they knew what their muse looked like... they could have been stuck in an elevator with their muse and not recognized her.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Aug 20 2012 09:29 AM
Re: Stories on Prog Rock - Long Read

I don't feel nearly as strongly against prog as you do ELO, but yeah, I was having a larff.

I think ELO was kinda fun, and I think descending (if that's the word) into dumb pop-disco territory was their destiny and well-accomplished.

Now it seems that 1 in every 4.2 contemporary indie pop bands owe everything to ELO.

Vic Sage
Aug 20 2012 09:34 AM
Re: Stories on Prog Rock - Long Read

a more damning comment on contemporary indie pop i cannot imagine.

Vic Sage
Aug 21 2012 10:20 AM
Re: Stories on Prog Rock - Long Read

i was watching an episode of ALPHAS, and a girl who had no long term memory was told about the value of memories by her shrink. He said how a favorite song, for example, triggered a series of related memories ... when he first heard it, his feelings about it, who he was with, etc. Later, as the girl attempts to build some memories, she is seen putting a vinyl on a turntable, putting on headphones and listening to what, presumably is her favorite song.

It's "I've Seen All Good People" from the YES Album.

yea, prog!

Mets – Willets Point
Aug 23 2012 11:20 AM
Re: Stories on Prog Rock - Long Read

So if you don't have time or patience to read the long series of articles on prog rock you may prefer to rock out to a breezy two-part story on "1977: The Year Punk Broke" from Sound Opinions. Part 1: UK and Part 2: USA.