Master Index of Archived Threads


Bloodless Sandy

Edgy MD Aug 24 2012 11:21 AM

As the placid burgs of New York have become rattled by the eruption of Mt. Francesa, I pause to note just how bloodless Sandy Alderson's reign has been so far. Since his tenure began, no coaches have been axed in the middle of their contract, but rather a few peripheral figures have been gently not renewed at the end of the season, or re-assigned. Very few major league players have been dealt --- Rodriguez and Beltran went at the deadline in 2011, but those were both end-of-term deals that would be hard to characterize as heartless. Pagan is the only other more-than-nominal big leaguer dealt, and he went in the offseason. (Beato could certainly become more than nominal down the road, but I doubt Eddie Kunz will.) Similarly, he's shown himself to have a mercifully slow hand on releases. He waited until well into March of last year to release Castillo and Perez --- until there was no conceivable way left to even imagine carrying them on a roster. D.J. Carrasco was a rare in-season release for him, and he wasn't even an Omar holdover, but actually the very first player acquired on Sandy's watch back in December 2010. You can attribute it to professional prudence or a soft sentimentality or whatever, but his clinical detachment really stands out as screaming radio hosts and grown men talking to hand puppets may suggest to other leaders to shake things up if only for the sake of the shaking --- to give the actors a new perspective on the stage and re-assure the paying viewers that there is actually a life hand on the tiller. I'm as in favor prudence as anyone, but I would not have Sandy tagged with a Nero-like label, and I wonder if they're maybe about to come after him hard.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 24 2012 11:25 AM Re: Bloodless Sandy

He's gonna hafta slice up some of that young pitching for hitting.

bmfc1 Aug 24 2012 02:20 PM Re: Bloodless Sandy

If you heard Sandy's half-hour with Francesa the other day, "bloodless" Sandy sounded lifeless. Someone else might say "unemotional", but he seemed disinterested in the Mets. Maybe it was having to do a half-hour with Francesa. He said that he wanted to trade for power. With what? Other teams will want Wheeler, Harvey and McHugh. Murphy isn't going to demand a 30 HR player. What will Valdespin recoup? I thought that Alderson would be the perfect GM to get the Mets through the lean years as he worked in "small market" Oakland. Thus far, it doesn't look like he is. BTW, other than the Beltran trade, have any of his trades worked out well? Pagan--no. F. Rodriguez--no.

Edgy MD Aug 24 2012 02:23 PM Re: Bloodless Sandy

He hasn't made too many --- a big part of my post. And the jury certainly isn't done on those.

Ashie62 Aug 24 2012 03:14 PM Re: Bloodless Sandy

His payroll ad Sugarpants will not help him. How can the Dodgers do all this cool shit?

bmfc1 Aug 24 2012 03:30 PM Re: Bloodless Sandy

Edgy DC wrote: He hasn't made too many --- a big part of my post. And the jury certainly isn't done on those. Yes, you said that and it's true. He could have made more but didn't like the return (e.g. the Red Sox wanted Capuano the last week of '11 for one start and he wouldn't do it, thinking that it would be easier to resign a player on the team; as we know, he didn't resign Capuano). The jury is in the F. Rodriguez trade and the verdict is "FAIL" as the Mets got back shit. The jury is still out on the Pagan trade but what do you think right about now?

Ashie62 Aug 24 2012 06:01 PM Re: Bloodless Sandy

EPIC FAIL

Swan Swan H Aug 24 2012 06:15 PM Re: Bloodless Sandy

Ashie62 wrote: His payroll ad Sugarpants will not help him. How can the Dodgers do all this cool shit? Crawford and Beckett are cool shit? Are you serious? Christ, they are owed $130 million and I wouldn't give you the change in my ashtray for the two of them. Boston is the one doing the cool shit here - they somehow talked LA into giving them an actual pitching prospect for two hideous contracts and a third guy (Gonzalez) whose salary far outweighs his value. This is like having the people holding you hostage not only leave, but mow the fucking lawn on the way out.

Ashie62 Aug 24 2012 06:20 PM Re: Bloodless Sandy

Kemp and Ethier dude

Ashie62 Aug 24 2012 06:32 PM Re: Bloodless Sandy

Swan Swan H wrote: Ashie62 wrote: His payroll ad Sugarpants will not help him. How can the Dodgers do all this cool shit? Crawford and Beckett are cool shit? Are you serious? Christ, they are owed $130 million and I wouldn't give you the change in my ashtray for the two of them. Boston is the one doing the cool shit here - they somehow talked LA into giving them an actual pitching prospect for two hideous contracts and a third guy (Gonzalez) whose salary far outweighs his value. This is like having the people holding you hostage not only leave, but mow the fucking lawn on the way out. Swan...I really meant that a recently bk team can even think these things....

Swan Swan H Aug 24 2012 06:33 PM Re: Bloodless Sandy

Ashie62 wrote: Kemp and Ethier dude Good. They already had them before they paid a fortune for these two turds.

Edgy MD Aug 25 2012 07:17 AM Re: Bloodless Sandy

bmfc1 wrote: Edgy DC wrote: He hasn't made too many --- a big part of my post. And the jury certainly isn't done on those. Yes, you said that and it's true. He could have made more but didn't like the return (e.g. the Red Sox wanted Capuano the last week of '11 for one start and he wouldn't do it, thinking that it would be easier to resign a player on the team; as we know, he didn't resign Capuano). The jury is in the F. Rodriguez trade and the verdict is "FAIL" as the Mets got back shit. The jury is still out on the Pagan trade but what do you think right about now? Gee, would you look at me? I'm on the stand.

metsguyinmichigan Aug 25 2012 07:37 AM Re: Bloodless Sandy

I think the KRod trade is a win. They weren't really trying to get players back, they were preventing the contract from vesting.

Edgy MD Aug 25 2012 08:08 AM Re: Bloodless Sandy

December 7, 2010 New York Mets traded Mike Antonini to the Los Angeles Dodgers for =#0000FF]Chin-lung Hu. [list]Hu gave the Mets -0.4 WPA and the Mets paid $420,000 for the honor. Antonini, after a decent year for Buffalo in 2010, was demoted back to AA when he joined the Dodger system and had a good year. Back at AAA, he's gone 2-7 and 5.71 at 26. I guess there's negative value in that, but unless he pitches well enough to join the Dodgers and lay as big an egg for them as Hu did for the Mets, we won't measure it. Current Leader: Dodgers. Projected Winner: Dodgers. Big-League Consequence: Little, but It Counts.[/list:u] March 29, 2011 New York Mets traded Eddie Kunz to the San Diego Padres for =#0000FF]Allan Dykstra. [list]Neither one of these guys has sniffed the big leagues, but Kunz has clearly been outplayed by Dykstra, even though Dykstra's injury cost him the middle of this season. It's a mystery why he wasn't promoted to AAA after the season he had lin 2011. Current Leader: Mets. Projected Winner: Mets. Big-League Consequence: None.[/list:u] July 12, 2011 New York Mets traded Francisco Rodriguez to the Milwaukee Brewers for =#0000FF]Danny Herrera and =#0000FF]Adrian Rosario. [list]Did the Mets send money to Milwaukee in this deal? Rodriguez gave the Brewers a 2.17 ERA over 29 innings for about $3.8 million plus the $3.5 million buyout for 2012. The Mets sent money, right? If not, his good pitching amounted to 0.9 WPA for the Brewers for $7.3 million. Ceetar would call that a loss for the Mets, but it sure looks like a heckuva successful salary dump. Too bad they didn't get value for the team when they reinvested it. (I'm not bringing the vest money in here. I don't think that was going to happen under any circumstances.) Herrera looked like he might give the Mets some utility, but got Tommyjohnned. He so far has given them -0.1 WPA for maybe $150,000. Adrian Rosario failed in Bingo this year, but sent back to St. Lucie, he's torn through the Florida State League. Current Leader: It's a philosophical matter. I think the salary dump makes the Mets the winner in the trade. Where they lose is the subsequent failure to spend the money successfully, but that's a further matter. If they sent, say, $2.5-3 million to Milwaukee, I call it a draw. Any more, and the Mets lose. Projected Winner: Same. The Rodriguez contract is done. Herrera and Rosario can still potentially appear for the Mets and add or subtract marginal value, but little is likely to change. Big-League Consequence: Could have been a meaningful amount, but the Mets squandered the money saved on bad off-season investments, most notably Frank Francisco.[/list:u]

Edgy MD Aug 25 2012 09:01 PM Re: Bloodless Sandy

July 28, 2011 New York Mets traded Carlos Beltran to the San Francisco Giants for =#0000FF]Zack Wheeler. [list]Beltran played typically well for the Giants and was typically underappreciated as the San Franciscos failed to prosper around him. The Mets supposedly ate $4 million in the deal which is a lot of spinach. The Giants only paid him $2 millions and got 0.4 WPA and/or 1.0 WAR for their trouble. Split the difference and that's 0.7 which comes to about $3 million per win. That's not the best bargain in the world, but it works. The Mets havent yet seen what Wheeler can do against big league pitching. Almost all reports are positive, but I'm just hoping he gives them more than his brother Dan did.[/list:u] Current Leader: Giants Projected Leader: Mets, but a whole lot can still go wrong. Big League Consequence: None yet for the Mets, which is why they trail this one. December 6, 2011 New York Mets traded Angel Pagan to the San Francisco Giants for =#0000FF]Ramon Ramirez and =#0000FF]Andrés Torres. [list]Torres and Rodriguez have had injuries but their real problem is that they never really got untracked and/or on a roll for the Mets. Angel Pagan has had the sort of comeback year he didn't seem to have in him when he last wore Met colors, putting up .782 OPS, which is real impressive when you play half the time in Phone Company Park. Pagan and Ramirez look to achieve enough service time this year to qualify for free agency at the end of the season. So the Mets tendering an offer to Torres and him having a near-All-Star quality year is probably what it'll take to swing this back. Current Leader: Giants Projected Leader: Giants Big League Consequence: All of it, and it stings.[/list:u] August 14, 2012 New York Mets traded Pedro Beato to the Boston Red Sox for =#0000FF]Kelly Shoppach. [list]Shoppach has provided modest value to the Mets since he has arrived, appearing to be an improvement on Rob Johnson and Mike Nickeas, if nothing else. Beato has pitched three scoreless innings for Pawtucket. The methodology I'm using here --- just trying to measure the players' bottom line in wins during his current contract --- won't really show the value the Mets were trying to get out the deal: a chance to try on Shoppach and see if the shoe fits. Oh well. Current Leader: Mets Projected Leader: Red Sox, but it may be a few years before Beato achieves this, if he does. Big League Consequence: None for the Sox. Little for the Mets.[/list:u] That's my assessment. But I think the real story is not the trading at all, but the paper transactions --- signings, non-signings, waiver claims and losses.

bmfc1 Aug 26 2012 06:03 AM Re: Bloodless Sandy

"Thank you Edgy DC. I have nothing further. You may step down."

Mex17 Aug 27 2012 04:53 AM Re: Bloodless Sandy

metsguyinmichigan wrote: I think the KRod trade is a win. They weren't really trying to get players back, they were preventing the contract from vesting. Plus, we still do not know how Herrera will come back from TJ surgery. Maybe he contributes in 2013?

Mex17 Aug 27 2012 04:57 AM Re: Bloodless Sandy

Seems to me that Sandy has been taking the Gil Hodges approach. . .observe, learn, then (and only then) react.

Edgy MD Aug 27 2012 06:30 AM Re: Bloodless Sandy

I think that's certainly true. I think the downside of that is times like this, when a team is struggling to find answers and the front office is --- as per their plan --- silent. Such times are when a manager can show his quality --- staving off a morale crisis by keeping the parts moving, and keeping guys on task and focused, even when success is completely elusive.