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The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

batmagadanleadoff
Sep 20 2012 02:29 PM

Cueto unscored on through six innings ... pinch hit for in top of 7th with Reds up 2-0 on Cubs ... in line for 18th Win ... cannot get loss today.

http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore? ... icago-cubs

Ashie62
Sep 21 2012 09:47 AM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

Im bettin on Cain.

Edgy MD
Sep 21 2012 09:52 AM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

Cain vs Astros: 3 G, 2-0, 1.19 ERA, 22.2 IP, 4 BB, 25 SO.

Frayed Knot
Sep 21 2012 10:39 AM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

Edgy DC wrote:
Cain vs Astros: 3 G, 2-0, 1.19 ERA, 22.2 IP, 4 BB, 25 SO.


He's also undefeated against Abel.

batmagadanleadoff
Sep 22 2012 07:25 AM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

Saturday, September 22, 2012

Miami at NY Mets 1:10 PM Buehrle vs Dickey

Milwaukee at Washington 1:05 PM Peralta vs Gonzalez

http://espn.go.com/mlb/schedule

batmagadanleadoff
Sep 22 2012 12:31 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL



September 22, 2012, 11:05 am
Mets’ Knuckleballer Has an Honor at His Fingertips
By TYLER KEPNER

Terry Collins, the Mets’ manager, sat gloomily at a news conference after his team lost to Philadelphia on Monday. His staff ace, R. A. Dickey, had lost despite allowing only two earned runs in seven innings. The Mets badly want Dickey to reach 20 victories, the magic threshold for a starting pitcher.

“You feel for him because all’s he’s done is give himself a chance to win baseball games,” Collins said. “We’ll go back at the end of the year and re-count the number of games he didn’t get a decision, or didn’t get a win. Hopefully, it doesn’t come back to bite him too bad.”

Collins should not worry. By now, the writers who vote for the Cy Young Award understand that won-loss record, while useful for telling the story of how frustrating or rewarding a season has been, is not vital to judging who has pitched best.

Three of the last six Cy Young Awards were given to pitchers with no more than 16 victories — Tim Lincecum and Zack Greinke in 2009, and Felix Hernandez in 2010.

Last season’s winners were easy: Justin Verlander and Clayton Kershaw both topped 20 wins while leading their leagues in strikeouts and earned run average. Both were unanimous selections.

This season’s races are much tighter, and a crowded field of starters could allow a reliever to emerge. Atlanta’s Craig Kimbrel, who had 38 saves in 41 chances, with 105 strikeouts in 571/3 innings entering Saturday, would seem to have the best chance among closers.

But only one reliever has captured the award in the last 19 years, and that pitcher — Eric Gagne of the Los Angeles Dodgers, in 2003 — had to go 55 for 55 in save chances to do it. Advanced metrics value starters much more than relievers, because starters pitch so many more innings.

Innings should be important to the Cy Young discussion. Pitching deep in games not only helps rest the bullpen, but projects a sense of calm to the rest of the team: It’s O.K., I’ve got this. Durability ought to count for a lot.

Take Gio Gonzalez, who was 19-8 for the Washington Nationals. The record was exceptional, and his 2.95 E.R.A. was also sharp. But Gonzalez did not record an out in the eighth inning until Aug. 3. The Giants’ Matt Cain had done that 11 times, and Madison Bumgarner, Dickey, Cole Hamels and Kershaw had done that 10 times.

Of course, a pitcher can labor for more than seven innings but not necessarily pitch well. So what about high-quality starts — say, starts lasting at least seven innings, with no more than three earned runs? Win or lose, almost every such start is an ace-worthy performance.

Dickey and Kershaw (who is probably done for the season with a hip injury) had made 19 such starts. Cincinnati’s Johnny Cueto has made 17, and Hamels 16. Gonzalez had made only nine. From June 3 through July 19, Gonzalez never even lasted seven innings.

Gonzalez, of course, is headed to the playoffs, where his relatively light workload could make him fresher than other top starters. He could win a World Series ring for his efforts, and that is the ultimate prize for a player.

But the league’s highest individual pitching honor should go to Dickey. He strikes out a lot of hitters, and few reach base. Entering Saturday, he had a National League-best 2.67 E.R.A. and also led in innings, with 212. He has mastered baseball’s most unpredictable pitch, the knuckleball, and made it the most effective pitching weapon in the league.

The American League race may be even closer....


http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/2 ... ingertips/

Edgy MD
Sep 22 2012 12:36 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

Washington and Gio are up 3-0 on Milwaukee, who are countering with Livan Hernandez and two errors.

Edgy MD
Sep 22 2012 12:41 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

Washington and Gio are up 3-0 on Milwaukee, who are countering with Livan Hernandez and two errors.

Edgy MD
Sep 22 2012 01:00 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

Marlins put up a big fat six in the fourth inning. It would take a heckuva collapse for Gio not to get his 20th today.

Edgy MD
Sep 22 2012 01:08 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

And he completes the fifth and becomes the pitcher of record.

Benjamin Grimm
Sep 22 2012 01:12 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

Edgy DC wrote:
Marlins put up a big fat six in the fourth inning. It would take a heckuva collapse for Gio not to get his 20th today.


You scared me for a second there. You mean "Nationals".

Edgy MD
Sep 22 2012 05:58 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

Bury me. I'm through. I've got nothing left. This shit computer and this shit internet connection has my timing off and and not adjusting. I'm throwing junk up on the screen. JUNK!

batmagadanleadoff
Sep 23 2012 10:10 AM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL





Dickey's faced 75 more batters than Gonzalez.


Ranked by Average Game Score


Stats that adjust for park factors give Cueto a very slight edge over Dickey




Frayed Knot
Sep 23 2012 06:25 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

A win today (16-3) but also 3 earned over 6 IP for dark-horse candidate Kyle Lohse.

duan
Sep 24 2012 05:56 AM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

You'd have to think if Clayton Kershaw repeats yesterday's "heroics" he's going to win. Guy, not 100% comes back to try and save team, keeps team in race. America is still land of the free and home of the brave.

batmagadanleadoff
Sep 24 2012 08:02 AM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

Despite all of the enlightened commentary about how Wins aren't nearly the best indicator of a pitcher's worth, nobody's mentioning Kershaw as a candidate. Yet the reigning Cy Young Award winner passed Dickey for the league lead in K's last night, is tied for the league lead in WHIP, has the second best NL ERA, just .02 behind RA, and has a body of work that's as good as anybody's, notwithstanding his low Wins total (12).



Edgy MD
Sep 24 2012 08:22 AM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

Very, very comparable to Dickey. Being purely objective, I'd vote Dickey #1 based on the slight edge in innings, and the shutouts. I also would even consider the number of wins relevant, given they are so equal in every other category.

And if I can't come up with reasonable reasons to go to Dickey, I may have to give up the whole objectivity thing.

metirish
Sep 24 2012 08:29 AM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

batmagadanleadoff wrote:
Despite all of the enlightened commentary about how Wins aren't nearly the best indicator of a pitcher's worth, nobody's mentioning Kershaw as a candidate. Yet the reigning Cy Young Award winner passed Dickey for the league lead in K's last night, is tied for the league lead in WHIP, has the second best NL ERA, just .02 behind RA, and has a body of work that's as good as anybody's, notwithstanding his low Wins total (12).






Keith absolutely dismissed Kershaw from the running based solely on wins..... "12 wins is not getting it done"


I wasn't surprised Mex talked like that.....seems at best dismissive of things like WHIP etc.

Chad Ochoseis
Sep 24 2012 08:34 AM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 24 2012 10:22 AM

Among teams currently in the division/WC lead, Kershaw has faced:

Giants - 4
Cardinals - 2
Nats -1
Reds - 1
White Sox - 1

Total - 9

Dickey:

Nats - 4
Braves - 3
Cardinals - 2
Reds - 2
O's - 1
MFYs -1

Total - 13

Story is similar if you look at teams with better than a .500 record. Dickey has had a more difficult schedule than Kershaw this year.

Edgy MD
Sep 24 2012 08:34 AM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

Keith's a smart jock, but a proud jock. He'll examine received wisdom, but only after you force him to.

It would be cool if Gary forced him to more, but Gary can be a suckup with regard to his jock buddies.

Edgy MD
Sep 24 2012 08:36 AM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

Thinking of Saturday's game, I wonder how the candidates compare with regard to their bullpens (a) blowing their leads, and (b) letting their runners score.

Frayed Knot
Sep 24 2012 10:15 AM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

Edgy DC wrote:
Keith's a smart jock, but a proud jock. He'll examine received wisdom, but only after you force him to.

It would be cool if Gary forced him to more, but Gary can be a suckup with regard to his jock buddies.


Gary has also shown himself to be almost Joe Morgan-esque with regard to those damn new-fangled stats that are always running on his lawn.

Edgy MD
Sep 24 2012 10:32 AM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

My question is how much he developed that persona to suck up to Keith and Ron.

Frayed Knot
Sep 24 2012 11:52 AM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

I don't think that's the case.

First of all I don't know that Ron & Keith are so dismissive of "new stats" so much as they're simply ignorant of them (Keith in particular).
And Gary's statophopia seems to be both long-standing and almost innate. I remember him practically spitting out the words "stats guys" as he denigrated one Sabre-ist viewpoint a few years back. He's also a long-time member of the 'Jeter oozes clutch' crowd, plus will, far too often for my taste, spit out a rather silly stat off the game notes (situational and/or coincidental type stuff) that deserves questioning as opposed to just simple recitation, but he seems far more likely to just let it stand on its own as if the stats' relevance is self-evident.

If anything I actually think he's gotten a bit more open-minded in recent years, just is doing so very slowly.

Edgy MD
Sep 24 2012 12:00 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

What really killed me was a guest in the booth on Autism Awareness Day. It was more or less his third trip to the booth, and he was caught up in his austism spiel, and the Mets were in a bunting situation. The guy was comfortable enough that he felt it OK to offer a baseball observation, and he said something along the lines of, "I've done a lot of the reading about bunting and I have to say that I'm compelled by the notion that the outs you give up bunting costs you a lot of runs."

Gary snorted back a "Double plays cost you a lot of runs too." That's true, of course, but his tone wasn't along the lines of "On the other hand...," but rather, "Stick to what you know, Autism Boy."

I'm used to him being more or less genial (and I imagine he is), but it was pretty stunning to see him give the guy the high hat.

Frayed Knot
Sep 24 2012 07:05 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

Also, promoting bunts is not exactly the way to Keith's heart anyway.
And while I'm sure he's not using any Sabremetric studies to bolster his belief, Keith tends to argue against bunts more often than not, particularly early in the game and virtually anytime with a guy who is capable of putting a charge into the ball.
IOW, he's anti-bunt unless the game & personnel make it an advantage rather than merely as a defensive way to stay out of DPs.

HahnSolo
Sep 25 2012 07:21 AM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

Gary lost me with his complete love affair with Orlando Cabrera a couple years ago, gushing on and on about what a "winner" he was.

And to not veer too far off course with this thread, go R.A.!

batmagadanleadoff
Sep 25 2012 06:59 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

Cueto: 5 innings of of one run ball, Reds 4, Brewers 1, pitcher of record on the long side in line for his 19th win.

http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=320925117

Ashie62
Sep 25 2012 07:35 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

Gio 20
R.A. 19
Cueto 18

batmagadanleadoff
Sep 26 2012 09:42 AM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

[youtube]jKX54ArbjkM[/youtube]









Edgy MD
Sep 26 2012 09:46 AM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

I wonder how much the hype factor may squeeze out a few points for Strasburg. He won't win, certainly, but a few points in his pocket could swing things.

batmagadanleadoff
Sep 26 2012 09:54 AM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

No Nats. I wouldn't give Strasburg a vote. And Gio Gonzalez wouldn't make my ballot either if the season ended last night. And I had a ballot to submit. Do the writers have the balls to give first place votes to a 12-9 pitcher? 'Cause Kershaw's looking about as good as anybody else.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Sep 26 2012 04:40 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

batmagadanleadoff wrote:
No Nats. I wouldn't give Strasburg a vote. And Gio Gonzalez wouldn't make my ballot either if the season ended last night. And I had a ballot to submit. Do the writers have the balls to give first place votes to a 12-9 pitcher? 'Cause Kershaw's looking about as good as anybody else.


I think that's the issue... that he's pitched as good as anybody else, and not better than anybody else, unlike Felix two years back.

Frayed Knot
Sep 27 2012 06:04 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

3 earned for Gio tonight in the very 1st inning in Philly.
He actually retired the first two outs on just four pitches total but then lost his control and threw in a bases-clearing double (Darin Ruf) for good measure.
He then tossed up a blank in the 2nd but his pitch count has got to be way up there already.

batmagadanleadoff
Sep 27 2012 07:04 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

Frayed Knot wrote:
3 earned for Gio tonight in the very 1st inning in Philly.
He actually retired the first two outs on just four pitches total but then lost his control and threw in a bases-clearing double (Darin Ruf) for good measure.
He then tossed up a blank in the 2nd but his pitch count has got to be way up there already.


After falling behind 3-1 in the 1st inning, Nats score the next five runs. 6-3 Nats after six and a half. Gio in line for his 21st Win -- a serious crimp in RA's triple crown bid.

http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore? ... a-phillies

Frayed Knot
Sep 27 2012 08:52 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

In the TC bid yeah, but not so much in the CY bid.
A one win gap (assuming it stays there) isn't so big particularly when that one win is 21-v-20. Me thinks the gap between 20 & 19 is much "larger" in the heads of some voters than is any other single one-game span so RA, in a sense, got closer today even though both pitchers notched a 'W'
Both also had their ERAs rise today on account of 3 earned runs although Gio's was higher to start with and rose even more because he only went 6 innings vs RA's 7.2


Going to be an interesting vote as at least 5 starters (Gonzalez, Cueto, Dickey, Cain, Kershaw) have legit claims and all could get one or more 1st place votes, and then throw Kimbrel into the mix.

batmagadanleadoff
Sep 28 2012 08:39 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 28 2012 09:43 PM

The RA Triple Crown Watch:

Kershaw scoreless through two; 4 K's
http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore? ... es-dodgers

[u:16ygrxv7]ERA[/u:16ygrxv7]
Kershaw 2.65
Dickey 2.69

[u:16ygrxv7]K's[/u:16ygrxv7]
Dickey 222
Kershaw 215

batmagadanleadoff
Sep 28 2012 09:13 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

The RA Triple Crown Watch:

Kershaw unscored on through four; 6 K's
http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore? ... es-dodgers

[u:2dinqrk9]ERA[/u:2dinqrk9]
Kershaw 2.63
Dickey 2.69

[u:2dinqrk9]K's[/u:2dinqrk9]
Dickey 222
Kershaw 217

batmagadanleadoff
Sep 28 2012 09:45 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

The RA Triple Crown Watch:

Kershaw unscored on through five; 8 K's
http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore? ... es-dodgers

[u:91g4tu16]ERA[/u:91g4tu16]
Kershaw 2.62
Dickey 2.69

[u:91g4tu16]K's[/u:91g4tu16]
Dickey 222
Kershaw 219

[u:91g4tu16]Wins[/u:91g4tu16]
Gonzalez 21
Dickey 20

batmagadanleadoff
Sep 28 2012 09:58 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

The RA Triple Crown Watch:

Kershaw unscored on through six; 8 K's; 87 pitches thrown
http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore? ... es-dodgers

[u:2sj283x3]ERA[/u:2sj283x3]
Kershaw 2.60
Dickey 2.69

[u:2sj283x3]K's[/u:2sj283x3]
Dickey 222
Kershaw 219

[u:2sj283x3]Wins[/u:2sj283x3]
Gonzalez 21
Dickey 20

batmagadanleadoff
Sep 28 2012 10:18 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

The RA Triple Crown Watch:

Kershaw unscored on through seven; 8 K's; 100 pitches thrown
http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore? ... es-dodgers

[u:3906u7si]ERA[/u:3906u7si]
Kershaw 2.59
Dickey 2.69

[u:3906u7si]K's[/u:3906u7si]
Dickey 222
Kershaw 219

[u:3906u7si]Wins[/u:3906u7si]
Gonzalez 21
Dickey 20

batmagadanleadoff
Sep 28 2012 10:32 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

The RA Triple Crown Watch:

Kershaw unscored on through eight; 10 K's; 113 pitches thrown
http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore? ... es-dodgers

[u:31iuwrnu]ERA[/u:31iuwrnu]
Kershaw 2.58
Dickey 2.69

[u:31iuwrnu]K's[/u:31iuwrnu]
Dickey 222
Kershaw 221

[u:31iuwrnu]Wins[/u:31iuwrnu]
Gonzalez 21
Dickey 20

Ceetar
Sep 28 2012 11:59 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

My guess is the incumbent will win it. (Wait, this isn't the politics thread?)

But maybe not. Dickey's late push may help. I wish Collins had let him finish some of the 8.1 and 8.2 games for more complete games, because I think that would've definitively pushed him over the top.

soupcan
Sep 29 2012 07:54 AM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

So R.A. Is ahead of C.K. in Ws & Ks. The Dickmeister has one more start left and I'm guessing Kershaw is done.

I would think that if R.A. throws a nice game in his last start and gets the win, he ices it.

batmagadanleadoff
Sep 29 2012 08:29 AM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL














batmagadanleadoff
Sep 29 2012 08:46 AM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

If the voters made their selections while pretending not to know the pitchers' won-loss records (not necessarily a bad approach, according to me) then Kershaw would probably win the Cy Young award in a unanimous landslide. If the season ended last night.

batmagadanleadoff
Sep 29 2012 09:29 AM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

If Kershaw doesn't pitch another inning this season, Dickey would have to pitch nine and 2/3 innings without allowing an earned run in order to pass Kershaw in ERA.

Mets – Willets Point
Sep 29 2012 03:16 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

batmagadanleadoff wrote:
If Kershaw doesn't pitch another inning this season, Dickey would have to pitch nine and 2/3 innings without allowing an earned run in order to pass Kershaw in ERA.


Luckily he's paired with an offense that can also go nine and 2/3 innings(or more) without getting a run to get him the extra inning.

batmagadanleadoff
Sep 29 2012 07:21 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

Ceetar wrote:
My guess is [Kershaw] the incumbent will win it. (Wait, this isn't the politics thread?)


I would agree with you if you're stating who should win the award. Kershaw leads the league in WHIP, ERA, is tops in K/9 among the big four candidates and is second in Opp. OPS, only to Gonzalez. (He's tops among the big four in a slew of other categories, too). You can't ask a pitcher to do more than to keep opposing batters off base, and to minimize the potential for damage when those batters do reach safely. And Kershaw was the best at that in the NL this season. Can't blame Kershaw if his team can't hold leads, or score enough to get him wins. But I don't think Kershaw wins it.

What I think will happen though, barring a major shakeup in the stats over this last week is that Kershaw won't get serious consideration for the top spot because of his low wins total. Neither will Cueto. Cueto's edge, as I see it, lies primarily in SABR stats that adjust for park factors, particularly esoteric ones that lack transparency. I don't see the voters relying primarily on those stats. That leaves Dickey and Gonzalez, and as between those two, Dickey wins convincingly. Unless Gonzalez receives strong extra credit because his teammates were better than Dickey's.

batmagadanleadoff
Oct 02 2012 12:06 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

batmagadanleadoff wrote:
Ceetar wrote:
My guess is [Kershaw] the incumbent will win it. (Wait, this isn't the politics thread?)


I would agree with you if you're stating who should win the award. Kershaw leads the league in WHIP, ERA, is tops in K/9 among the big four candidates and is second in Opp. OPS, only to Gonzalez. (He's tops among the big four in a slew of other categories, too). You can't ask a pitcher to do more than to keep opposing batters off base, and to minimize the potential for damage when those batters do reach safely. And Kershaw was the best at that in the NL this season. Can't blame Kershaw if his team can't hold leads, or score enough to get him wins. But I don't think Kershaw wins it.

What I think will happen though, barring a major shakeup in the stats over this last week is that Kershaw won't get serious consideration for the top spot because of his low wins total. Neither will Cueto. Cueto's edge, as I see it, lies primarily in SABR stats that adjust for park factors, particularly esoteric ones that lack transparency. I don't see the voters relying primarily on those stats. That leaves Dickey and Gonzalez, and as between those two, Dickey wins convincingly. Unless Gonzalez receives strong extra credit because his teammates were better than Dickey's.



I forgot that King Felix won his CYA with a 13-12 record. I thought he had about 16 or so wins. So now less reason to think that Kershaw can't win it with a 13-9 record. Of course, this year's NL race is much tighter, than AL.2010 and spread out among more candidates. I still say it'll be RA.

batmagadanleadoff
Oct 02 2012 12:09 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

One more thing: Dickey received almost a full run per game more than Kershaw in offensive run support this season.

Ceetar
Oct 02 2012 12:25 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

One more thing: Dickey received almost a full run per game more than Kershaw in offensive run support this season.


I wasn't differentiating because would/should. I think an argument for Kershaw or Dickey has plenty of merit. (and others as well)

The difference is so minute. Kershaw has the ERA and WHIP, but not by much. If the Dodgers defense is only fractionally better (And depending how comfortable you are with the measurement of course) that probably erases the difference. I think the IP matters too. Dickey's thrown more complete games and more innings. More shutouts too. Arguably he's had more dominating games, if that matters or not in terms of the award, I dunno.

It's ultimately going to come down to how the individual voters feel about the value of each point. If Dickey absolutely dominates tonight I think that almost clinches it for him though.

Farmer Ted
Oct 02 2012 12:47 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

Tom Verducci's picks:


NL Cy Young Award
The ballot:

1. R.A. Dickey, Mets

2. Johnny Cueto, Reds

3. Clayton Kershaw, Dodgers

4. Gio Gonzalez, Nationals

5. Kris Medlen, Braves

The reason: Dickey leads the league in complete games, shutouts, innings, strikeouts and batters faced and barely trails Kershaw in ERA and Kershaw and Cain in WHIP. No one else has performed that kind of volume of work at that level. I am stupefied that some people have held against him the fluky nature of the knuckleball (irrelevant to this award) or the lack of meaningful games by the Mets (to pitch so well for such a poor team actually enhances his season.)

The stat: Dickey has won 77 percent of his decisions (20-6) while everybody else for the same club has won just 38 percent (53-81).

The prediction: Too close to call between Dickey and Kershaw. Cueto is severely underrated by most voters, who don't look hard enough at pitching his home games in a home run haven. (Cueto leads the league in adjusted ERA). Braves closer Craig Kimbrel will finish much higher on the overall ballot than mine, which is like valuing placekickers above quarterbacks. Medlen faced more than twice as many hitters as did Kimbrel.

TransMonk
Oct 02 2012 12:49 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

Ver-douchey wrote:
The stat: Dickey has won 77 percent of his decisions (20-6) while everybody else for the same club has won just 38 percent (53-81).

Yikes.

Vic Sage
Oct 02 2012 02:07 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

A pitcher's winning % vs his team's W%.
I think that is an overlooked evaluation marker; to the extent "W"s tell us anything, i think this offers some insight when evaluating a particular season for a pitcher.

Vic Sage
Oct 02 2012 02:07 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

i like Verducci's list.

Farmer Ted
Oct 02 2012 02:27 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

The guy is missing a ligament for crissakes!

Benjamin Grimm
Oct 02 2012 07:01 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

Okay, so the Triple Crown is out. He's not going to lead the league in wins, and ERA is unlikely, unless Kershaw gets rocked tomorrow. If the Dodgers are eliminated today, however, Kershaw may not pitch tomorrow which, if nothing else, would clinch the strikeout title for Dickey.

If Kershaw does pitch, he'll need 9 strikeouts to tie Dickey, and 10 to pass him. So R.A. may not end up with any of the big three titles.

Benjamin Grimm
Oct 03 2012 04:30 AM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

Dodgers eliminated, Kershaw pitching anyway. Let's hope there are a lot of earned runs and few strikeouts.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 03 2012 06:36 AM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

It seems like I've read/heard a few people with votes-- like Jayson Stark-- forming something like a groundswell of support for Kimbrel's "historic dominance"-- highest-ever seasonal K/9 for anyone pitching 50-plus innings-- in the Atlanta 'pen.

Edgy MD
Oct 03 2012 06:48 AM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

That probably won't happen, as I think most folks only look at relievers in the absence of any 20-game winners, but stealing a few votes could certainly make him a spoiler.

I imagine a strong start by Kimbrel gets him pulled early.

Vic Sage
Oct 03 2012 08:25 AM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

kimbrel's been great... over the course of 61.2 INNINGS! Now while i don't absolutely rule out the CY for relievers (cough, cough... own award... rolaids... cough cough), i would only consider it in a year where there were no dominant pitchers... um, i mean, starting pitchers. And this year, there are more than enough starters with legit candidacies not to have to consider guys who've thrown 60 innings.

Similarly, while King Felix showed its possible (and appropriate) to win the CY with relatively few wins when you absolutely dominate all the meaningful pitching stats (as he did that year over Price and Sabathia), but where those stats are in the same ballpark, its not inappropriate to use wins as a tie breaker, if there is a distinct difference in that category.

Kershaws 12-9 record isn't enough with his small edge in some of the other categories over the 20 game winners. And Gio's 1-game lead over Dickey isn't meaningful, given Dickey's dominance in so many categories. Cueto is a legit dark horse, but he lost the WAR lead and its hard to put his numbers in a park-adjusted context that's comprehensible to most voters. Plus Dickey is the best story.

So I still think it's going to be R.ightful A.ward-winner Dickey.

batmagadanleadoff
Oct 03 2012 09:26 AM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

Benjamin Grimm wrote:
Dodgers eliminated, Kershaw pitching anyway. Let's hope there are a lot of earned runs and few strikeouts.


I suppose that the Dodgers will monitor Kershaw's ERA (2.58) to ensure that it doesn't rise higher than Dickey's 2.73. This is slightly easier than it sounds. If Kershaw, for example, gives up a grand slam HR in the first inning before recording an out, and all the runs are earned, his ERA will rise to 2.75. Would the Dodgers pull him in the first inning if the first three batters reach base? Holy Jose Jose Jose!

Edgy MD
Oct 03 2012 11:26 AM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

Those 61.2 innings put him atop the WPA chart for pitchers.

1. Kimbrel (ATL) 4.3
2. Medlen (ATL) 3.6
3. Kershaw (LAD) 3.3
4. Lohse (STL) 3.2
5. Cueto (CIN) 3.1
6. Chapman (CIN) 3.0
7. O'Flaherty (ATL) 2.7
Cishek (MIA) 2.7
9. Gonzalez (WSN) 2.7
10. Hamels (PHI) 2.7

Dickey's absent from there, but appears on the related WPA/LI

1. Medlen (ATL) 4.0
2. Kershaw (LAD) 3.8
3. Gonzalez (WSN) 3.4
4. Cueto (CIN) 3.0
5. Latos (CIN) 2.6
6. Hamels (PHI) 2.5
7. Dickey (NYM) 2.4
8. Chapman (CIN) 2.4
9. Lee (PHI) 2.3
10. Kimbrel (ATL) 2.2

Frayed Knot
Oct 03 2012 12:02 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

Edgy DC wrote:
Dickey's absent from there, but appears on the related WPA/LI


Win Percentage Added /per games played on Long Island?

Shit, for a guy who pitches his home games in Queens you figure he'd be a lot higher up on that list.




And for all the talk about Kimbrel, there's a question as to whether he's even the best reliever in baseball this season.
Yeah it's the other league so it wouldn't affect the NL CY race, but Tampa's Fernando Rodney as a considerably better ERA, more innings pitched, more saves, and a slightly lower walk rate. Kimbrel has more Ks and the better WHiP

IPSavesERAKBBWHiP
Kimbrel61.2421.02113140.65
Rodney74.1490.6176150.78


It all makes it a little tougher to refer to Kimbrel's year as an "historic" season for a reliever when it's being more or less matched concurrently.

bmfc1
Oct 03 2012 12:17 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

Tim Kurkjian said on the Tony Kornheiser Show today that he is debating between R.A. and Kimbrel.

Jonah Keri says Kershaw.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/845 ... ards-field

batmagadanleadoff
Oct 03 2012 05:47 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

Kershaw is perfect through three innings, with two K's. Nine Giants up. Nine Giants down.

http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=321003119

batmagadanleadoff
Oct 03 2012 05:55 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

Double perfectos at Dodger Stadium. Voglesong is also perfect through three, with five K's.

http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=321003119


[u:39fmjlfm]K's[/u:39fmjlfm]
Dickey 230
Kershaw 223

batmagadanleadoff
Oct 03 2012 07:09 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

Kershaw on the long side of a 2-1 Dodger lead after six and a half; 7 IP, 3 H, 6 K

http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=321003119


[u:38a6acbc]K's[/u:38a6acbc]
Dickey 230
Kershaw 227

[u:38a6acbc]ERA[/u:38a6acbc]
Kershaw 2.54
Dickey 2.73

Benjamin Grimm
Oct 03 2012 07:26 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

After 8 innings, Kershaw is one strikeout behind Dickey.

Benjamin Grimm
Oct 03 2012 07:48 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

Kershaw out of the game. He wins the ERA title, Dickey will be the strikeout king.

Mets – Willets Point
Oct 03 2012 08:03 PM
Re: The Cy Young Award Watch-v2012.NL

Benjamin Grimm wrote:
Kershaw out of the game. He wins the ERA title, Dickey will be the strikeout king.


Contact Blue Rider Press, because they're going to need to publish a revised edition.

R.A. Dickey with Wayne Coffey wrote:
I will never be a Hall of Famer and will never lead the league in strikeouts.

p. 1, Wherever I Wind Up