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NFL Shenanigans

metirish
Sep 25 2012 06:11 AM

wow, did you see the end of the Seahawks game?

article

In a bizarre ending at the end of a tough weekend for replacement officials, the Seahawks beat the Packers 14-12 when Russell Wilson threw a disputed 24-yard touchdown pass to Golden Tate on the final play of the game.

Wilson scrambled from the pocket and threw to the corner of the end zone as the clock expired. Tate shoved Green Bay's Sam Shields out of the way and then wrestled with M.D. Jennings for possession. It was ruled on the field as a touchdown - although the two officials next to the catch gave different signals - and after a lengthy review, referee Wayne Elliott watched the replays and announced "the ruling on the field stands".



http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/se ... -officials

I didn't see it live but saw replays......wow

Edgy MD
Sep 25 2012 06:41 AM
Re: NFL Shenanigans

You know, if the fans aren't going to stand up for the refs or themselves, maybe the NFLPA might want to consider filing a lawsuit.

Frayed Knot
Sep 25 2012 08:36 AM
Re: NFL Shenanigans

- The NFLPA barely stands up for themselves so I don't expect to see them do anything beyond a token gesture in support of the refs.

- I tend to get a kick out of at least some degree of chaos in sports so part of me is getting a kick out of this whole mess. That the NFL is, at the same time, becoming a victim of their own arrogance just makes this a win-win in my mind.

- I briefly saw the replay of this specific call once and, based on just that, have no idea what the "correct" call should have been. And while I acknowledge that the real refs at least could have reduced the circus aftermath with better control, let's not pretend that ambiguous calls never happened prior to the last three weeks. This situation was essentially a perfect storm (no time remaining, and either/or outcome for both teams, simultaneous contradictory calls from refs) which also shows the limits of replay to correct all ills.

- If I'm the regular refs, my demands just went up.

metirish
Sep 25 2012 08:56 AM
Re: NFL Shenanigans

Yeah, I'm not going to pretend I know the rules here but as a casual fan there is an expectation that the officials know the rules, these officials are becoming the story because they frankly don't seem to know all the rules and are getting intimidated by coaches etc.

Edgy MD
Sep 25 2012 08:56 AM
Re: NFL Shenanigans

Frayed Knot wrote:
- The NFLPA barely stands up for themselves so I don't expect to see them do anything beyond a token gesture in support of the refs.


Oh, certainly. But I said "should," not "will." But I don't mean to suggest they file it in support of the refs (though again, they should), but rather in their own interests. Making a public legal statement that the lockout is willfully endangering the players' health and their rightful earnings would at least put some heat on the league, whether or not they actually have the will to pursue the matter aggressively.

Frayed Knot
Sep 25 2012 11:29 AM
Re: NFL Shenanigans

The funny part - and by 'funny' I mean not really funny at all - about this story from a media perspective is how unified and pro-referee the coverage has been after last year's player lockout produced almost the opposite reaction from the same quarters. During the impasse with the players union I heard media types chiding the players to "just get back to work" as they cheered rumors about reductions in free-agency, bemoaned the cut-backs in structured off-season camps, and were most unified in approving of the impositions of tighter rookie salary caps.

Meanwhile, from the league's point of view, they long held out the argument that free-agency was never right for football because a group - like say an offensive line - needs to train, practice, eat, sleep, workout and shower together every day for like 10 years (OK, I'm exaggerating a bit) or else they'll never really become a truly cohesive unit and therefore the product on the field would suffer greatly (or so they claimed and many media types parroted) due to the loss of teamwork if players were allowed to choose their own jobs. Yet replacing their long-standing referee teams with amateurs who had never met each other much less worked in a group before being thrown together for a few pre-season contests before the real games started was their first reaction to an action that they caused in an attempt to change an agreement that was still in place.

Mets – Willets Point
Sep 25 2012 12:46 PM
Re: NFL Shenanigans

I went out for lunch and ESPN was on the TV in the restaurant and they were showing the same clip from the Packers' game over and over and over again the entire time I was there like it was the Zabruder film. I expect the coverage will continue like that all day.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Sep 25 2012 01:33 PM
Re: NFL Shenanigans

The play that ended the game wasn't notable in last night's game for being poor-- it's not even the worst call that I remember off the top of my head-- but for being last.

The Packers held on virtually every offensive play in the second half, and were flagged on one. And the last Seahawks drive was sustained by a series of questionable-to-nonexistent pass-interference and roughing-the-passer calls. The game was a real shitshow.

As much of a shitshow as it is, though, I bet the players would have a real tough time convincing a court that the game is substantively more dangerous compared to last year.

Edgy MD
Sep 25 2012 02:07 PM
Re: NFL Shenanigans

I wouldn't expect them to win. At least not in court.

I would nonetheless ask them to take action on where they claim to stand. And maybe better pressure the NFL into dealing.

Frayed Knot
Sep 27 2012 07:34 AM
Re: NFL Shenanigans

Good thing the negotiations had been ongoing all along and were at an advanced enough stage that they were able to get done just days after the league's national embarrassment. Boy, wasn't that a nice coincidence?!?

btw, was it just me not paying attention well enough or did the ridiculously low level of experience of the replacement refs get only scant publicity until after this whole thing blew up in everyone's face?
I mean it's obviously known that there is no on-going minor league system they could pick from, and I guess I realized that the top college conferences weren't going to give up their refs to provide a temporary NFL fix. But it turns out that some of these guys were working **or at one time had worked** no higher than the high-school and/or JuCo level. The fact that the gap in experience between the regulars and the replacements was so huge smells like this was either another one of those things that the guys on the football beat were simply too lazy to dig into until after it became an impossible to ignore problem or they knew but simply under-publicized it for fear of antagonizing the league.

Mets – Willets Point
Sep 27 2012 07:43 AM
Re: NFL Shenanigans

I read that some of the replacement refs had been let go due to their incompetence from the Lingerie Football League.

Frayed Knot
Sep 27 2012 07:56 AM
Re: NFL Shenanigans

Mets – Willets Point wrote:
I read that some of the replacement refs had been let go due to their incompetence from the Lingerie Football League.


Which leads to the question: why did we only (or at least mostly) read/hear about things like this just this week and not a month ago when the season was getting ready to start or even a month before that at the very beginning of the pre-season games?
Were those assigned to cover the NFL unable to find such info, or were they uninterested in looking, or did they know but were reluctant to say?

Edgy MD
Sep 27 2012 07:59 AM
Re: NFL Shenanigans

That sort or reporting would have seriously cut into my Tebow coverage.

The NFL as 24-7 battlefield for the Culture Wars. That's what America wants, or something.

The Second Spitter
Sep 27 2012 08:44 AM
Re: NFL Shenanigans

Had the Pack - Line (as I'm sure many others did). Still pretty pissed.

Vic Sage
Sep 27 2012 08:55 AM
Re: NFL Shenanigans

Frayed Knot wrote:
Good thing the negotiations had been ongoing all along and were at an advanced enough stage that they were able to get done just days after the league's national embarrassment. Boy, wasn't that a nice coincidence?!?

btw, was it just me not paying attention well enough or did the ridiculously low level of experience of the replacement refs get only scant publicity until after this whole thing blew up in everyone's face?
I mean it's obviously known that there is no on-going minor league system they could pick from, and I guess I realized that the top college conferences weren't going to give up their refs to provide a temporary NFL fix. But it turns out that some of these guys were working **or at one time had worked** no higher than the high-school and/or JuCo level. The fact that the gap in experience between the regulars and the replacements was so huge smells like this was either another one of those things that the guys on the football beat were simply too lazy to dig into until after it became an impossible to ignore problem or they knew but simply under-publicized it for fear of antagonizing the league.


i imagine the owners had to dig down pretty far to find refs who were willing to scab, and therefore forfeit any possible future as an NFL ref. It had to be guys who knew they'd never have any shot otherwise (not to mention didn't care that they were undermining the ability of others in their profession from effectively negotiating fair terms). I am not surprised that there wasn't a single article (at least none of which I'm aware) dealing with that aspect of it, with the media buying the "replacement" label without question or even an eyebrow raised. Unionism, though one of the foundational building blocks of America's 20th century middle class, has become an increasingly demonized and scapegoated institution ever since Reagan broke the Air traffic controllers. Ask the residents of Wisconsin. And its been done with the total acquiescence of the media (and not just FOX).

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Sep 27 2012 09:32 AM
Re: NFL Shenanigans

The Second Spitter wrote:
Had the Pack - Line (as I'm sure many others did). Still pretty pissed.


Dude. Why? Why?

TransMonk
Sep 27 2012 09:38 AM
Re: NFL Shenanigans

The Second Spitter wrote:
Had the Pack - Line (as I'm sure many others did). Still pretty pissed.

I would be better off had the Pack won as well, but ultimately, I'm happy about the outcome since it finally put the real refs back where they belong.

metsmarathon
Sep 27 2012 02:17 PM
Re: NFL Shenanigans

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote:
As much of a shitshow as it is, though, I bet the players would have a real tough time convincing a court that the game is substantively more dangerous compared to last year.


and the thing of it is, it's the players tehmselves who are the ones who make hte game so dangerous. if the players werent trying to get away with the illegal and dirty hits, they wouldn't need to be policed by the refs for it.

Edgy MD
Sep 27 2012 02:29 PM
Re: NFL Shenanigans

I don't know. Replace "lousy refs" with "lousy cops" and "players" with "citizens" and I think their complaints seem fair.

metsmarathon
Sep 27 2012 02:43 PM
Re: NFL Shenanigans

no, the cops are citizens themselves. the only way your analogy makes a lick of sense is if the players were also refs.

(or, curse you, for tearing to shreds my complaint so succinctly)

Frayed Knot
Sep 27 2012 02:54 PM
Re: NFL Shenanigans

Good thing the negotiations had been ongoing all along and were at an advanced enough stage that they were able to get done just days after the league's national embarrassment. Boy, wasn't that a nice coincidence?!?

btw, was it just me not paying attention well enough or did the ridiculously low level of experience of the replacement refs get only scant publicity until after this whole thing blew up in everyone's face?
I mean it's obviously known that there is no on-going minor league system they could pick from, and I guess I realized that the top college conferences weren't going to give up their refs to provide a temporary NFL fix. But it turns out that some of these guys were working **or at one time had worked** no higher than the high-school and/or JuCo level. The fact that the gap in experience between the regulars and the replacements was so huge smells like this was either another one of those things that the guys on the football beat were simply too lazy to dig into until after it became an impossible to ignore problem or they knew but simply under-publicized it for fear of antagonizing the league.


i imagine the owners had to dig down pretty far to find refs who were willing to scab, and therefore forfeit any possible future as an NFL ref. It had to be guys who knew they'd never have any shot otherwise (not to mention didn't care that they were undermining the ability of others in their profession from effectively negotiating fair terms). I am not surprised that there wasn't a single article (at least none of which I'm aware) dealing with that aspect of it, with the media buying the "replacement" label without question or even an eyebrow raised. Unionism, though one of the foundational building blocks of America's 20th century middle class, has become an increasingly demonized and scapegoated institution ever since Reagan broke the Air traffic controllers. Ask the residents of Wisconsin. And its been done with the total acquiescence of the media (and not just FOX).



The line I was getting at wasn't that this was an anti-unionism thing. Oh sure, there were aspects of that thrown in here and there, Comments like: 'Who are these part-time employees to demand pensions?' (Ummm, they weren't demanding pensions, they were trying to keep the ones they had already fairly bargained for from being taken from them) but, overall, I don't think the media was pro-scab or anti-regular refs. In fact, I think they were quite pro-regular refs.

Rather I see this as part of a trend that I've noticed for years and that Joel Sherman is the lone person I've read say so in print: that the football press simply doesn't do a very good job at covering their sport above and beyond what is fed to them by the league. Aside from trying to be the first to report the mundane (sources say Tebow took six snaps at practice today instead of four) or feed into the gambling angle (Smith's ankle has updated from 'Questionable' to 'Probable') they seem not to want to rock the boat as long as the NFL keeps giving us our bread and circuses each Sunday afternoon (and Sunday night ... and Monday night ... and now Thursday night. Yay, four times the fun!!!)
I suspect this might stem from the access to players & coaches being so limited in that highly structured league that reporters are afraid to say anything off script for fear of being cut out of what little contact they do have and possibly be considered persona non-grata for the parties and events during SB week or something.

In this particular case, once the replacements were a fact of life, there was a near total lack of interest in who these guys were and where they came from until after the whole thing became a clusterfuck. If there were a similar situation in baseball with replacements umps who had years ago flunked out of umpiring school being culled from the Jackrabbit League in South Dakota, I'm positive that the likes of Kurkjian & Verducci would have that info, would make it public, and would publicly call it a disgrace all before the first pitch were thrown despite their longtime ties to the game. But in football, such info was either never gathered or it was kept under wraps until after a mistake which changed a game (and betting outcomes) turned the tide of public opinion enough to make publicizing the backgrounds safer ground on which to tread - and even then I still don't know that that info came from the so-called insiders so much as it was from outside digging.

seawolf17
Sep 27 2012 03:09 PM
Re: NFL Shenanigans

It's too bad the lockout is over, because I thought this was hilarious and I only saw it today for the first time.

Mets – Willets Point
Sep 27 2012 03:25 PM
Re: NFL Shenanigans

My take away from this thread is that there should be an ESPN show called "NFL Shenanigans".

Edgy MD
Sep 27 2012 03:44 PM
Re: NFL Shenanigans

"It's a great day for America."
--- White House spokesman Jay Carney

Hey, wait. The Yankees haven't lost yet.

The Second Spitter
Sep 27 2012 06:30 PM
Re: NFL Shenanigans

Had the Pack - Line (as I'm sure many others did). Still pretty pissed.


Dude. Why? Why?


Why I'm still pissed? It was the last game of 5 leg coupon which would netted me a bit over $4k. No problem with losing $ but as the blonde chick from The Matrix said: "not like this".

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Sep 27 2012 10:14 PM
Re: NFL Shenanigans

Had the Pack - Line (as I'm sure many others did). Still pretty pissed.


Dude. Why? Why?


Why I'm still pissed? It was the last game of 5 leg coupon which would netted me a bit over $4k. No problem with losing $ but as the blonde chick from The Matrix said: "not like this".


No... why are you wagering on a sport that's got shitshow replacement officials working it? It's like putting a parlay on three ping-pong games on your downstairs table with a pronounced tilt and a shaved corner.