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Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

metirish Oct 01 2012 03:42 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 01 2012 03:58 PM

I was flipping stations on the drive home and Francesa was talking about the Ryder Cup then said here are two important things from Eddie C and Sweeney The coaching staff are all coming back next year Eddie says.....the phrase en masse was used...it was reiterated that yes all of them are coming back. if true, surprised? How Coleman knew this was not expressed but in typical Francesa fashion he said it with utter conviction.

bmfc1 Oct 01 2012 03:55 PM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

Yes of course the entire coaching staff of a 4th place team should be back. And keep Bay and Thole and Young and Hefner while we're at it! Don't make any changes because things are just fantastic. And they want Pelfrey back, too.

Ceetar Oct 01 2012 04:22 PM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

bmfc1 wrote: Yes of course the entire coaching staff of a 4th place team should be back. And keep Bay and Thole and Young and Hefner while we're at it! Don't make any changes because things are just fantastic. And they want Pelfrey back, too. Pelfrey back is an entirely different animal. it's not a singular mentoring/strategy position. But clearly we should just retire Dan Warthen's number now, since he'll clearly be here forever.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 01 2012 05:33 PM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

Considering the offensive offensive output this team excreted during the second half, for my money, Hudgens is the more... um... interesting retention. I can't imagine he'll be on a very long leash come next April.

Ceetar Oct 01 2012 05:37 PM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Considering the offensive offensive output this team excreted during the second half, for my money, Hudgens is the more... um... interesting retention. I can't imagine he'll be on a very long leash come next April. yeah, I liked what I heard about/from Hudgens, but he really hasn't gotten the results. Of course, he's only been here a year too.

Ashie62 Oct 01 2012 06:49 PM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

Shit, I'd can Terry and the whole batch...

Edgy MD Oct 01 2012 08:29 PM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

Not pleased with the second half offensive collapse certainly, but at some level, I'm happy the coaches weren't necessarily made scapegoats. Canning them can sometimes bee way too easy a choice to make.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 01 2012 08:38 PM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Considering the offensive offensive output this team excreted during the second half, for my money, Hudgens is the more... um... interesting retention. I can't imagine he'll be on a very long leash come next April. Forgot about Teufel. [Shakes butt ruefully]

Edgy MD Oct 01 2012 08:44 PM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

Teuf may get transferred to batting coach if there's a mid-season axe of Hudgey. I imagine that retaining Hudgens and Warthan was based at least in part on what they thought would be most pleasing to Wright and Dickey.

bmfc1 Oct 02 2012 05:02 AM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Oct 02 2012 06:35 AM

Terry Francona is available and he's won two World Series but we're the lowdown, cheap, all-but bankrupt New York Mets so we'll keep our bad manager in place. The Mets best manager ever just won a title in Washington, their former scout that they could have hired just made the playoffs in Oakland, even the Mets old 3B almost made the playoffs in Chicago, but we'll keep Collins and his hard-working staff around for another year.

metsguyinmichigan Oct 02 2012 05:15 AM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

I know Melvin was somewhere in our front office, but I don't remember him being the third base coach. I don't have a problem with Terry. I don't know if we can blame him for the bullpen being awful for that stretch, or Jason Bay being Jason Bay or Ike's massive slump at the start.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 02 2012 06:05 AM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

I'll be more upset if too many of the same players come back next year.

metirish Oct 02 2012 06:16 AM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I'll be more upset if too many of the same players come back next year. Ha! , how true

bmfc1 Oct 02 2012 06:35 AM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

metsguyinmichigan wrote: I know Melvin was somewhere in our front office, but I don't remember him being the third base coach. Corrected. My writing staff apologizes for the factual error.

Edgy MD Oct 02 2012 06:36 AM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

Which manager and coaches you get is rarely a question of how cheap or how generous you are with their salaries.

bmfc1 Oct 02 2012 08:48 AM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

Can you see this ownership paying for Terry Francona? I can't.

Edgy MD Oct 02 2012 08:50 AM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

I don't know. What's he asking and what does he offer that Terry Collins doesn't?

bmfc1 Oct 02 2012 09:06 AM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

He won two World Series. That's two more than TC. That's good enough for me.

metirish Oct 02 2012 09:12 AM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

One concern I have with Francona is how much player power was in the clubhouse, if we are to believe the media....they basically ran the place.....is that the norm?, no idea....

Ceetar Oct 02 2012 09:16 AM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

I think Collins has done a good job. But I'd always replace a coach for a guy that seems to have a transcendent mind for the job. Bobby Valentine maybe. Not Francona.

Edgy MD Oct 02 2012 09:18 AM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

He won two World Series. That's two more than TC. That's good enough for me. If I believed he could by his managerial skills alone make Ike Davis hit like old-school David Oritiz, Chris Young pitch like Curt Schilling, and Jason Bay hit like... well, Jason Bay, I might agree with you. I don't. If Francona had presided over a $164-million-payroll Mets team through 7-20 September (far worse than the 2007 or 2008 Mets, by the way) in blowing a nine-game lead, wouldn't you be calling him Baldy and deriding the Mets for keeping him employed, past championships be damned? He didn't win two World Series. The Red Sox did. He was part of it.

metsguyinmichigan Oct 02 2012 09:18 AM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

He won two World Series -- with the second-most expensive team and a boatload of talent. I'm not tearing him down, but I'm saying Terry has never had those kinds of teams.

metirish Oct 02 2012 09:20 AM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

metsguyinmichigan wrote: He won two World Series -- with the second-most expensive team and a boatload of talent. I'm not tearing him down, but I'm saying Terry has never had those kinds of teams. yes, and his managerial stints before Boston were mediocre IIRC. Well, here we go, his tenure in Philly was very Metly looking http://www.baseball-reference.com/manag ... te01.shtml

bmfc1 Oct 02 2012 09:44 AM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

The manager matters and TC hasn't shown anything to justify being a major league manager, lack of talent (as MGIM suggested) or not. Francona has won two WS which matters and I'd rather have him next year, with as little talent as the Mets have, then TC who oversaw a horrendous second half this year and decided that being 8 games over .500 in May was a "high bar" for the team to stay over. My comments are out of frustration that the Cleveland Indians might get Francona rather than expectation of a change as it's clear that the Wilpons have no money and wouldn't want to pay two managers at the same time.

Ceetar Oct 02 2012 09:46 AM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

bmfc1 wrote: My comments are out of frustration that the Cleveland Indians might get Francona rather than expectation of a change as it's clear that the Wilpons have no money and wouldn't want to pay two managers at the same time. They don't have to pay two managers at the same time. Collin's contract was up after this year. If a replacement was ever being sought, they wouldn't have extended him. Nothing I've seen suggests if it was Collins on Boston instead on Francona they wouldn't have won those series nor would these Mets have been better the last two years with Francona.

Edgy MD Oct 02 2012 09:48 AM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

Wouldn't you have been frustrated at blowing a nine game lead with a 7-20 September? We're all frustrated. And I still hope the Mets step back from any immediate emotions and act wisely and dispassionately.

bmfc1 Oct 02 2012 09:54 AM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

Edgy DC wrote: We're all frustrated. And I still hope the Mets step back from any immediate emotions and act wisely and dispassionately. I hope you're right, but have you seen any emotions from management? Do they really care about how badly the team has played in the second half of the season or are they just trying to keep the team financially afloat? And have you seen any sign that this management team will act wisely? Keeping TC and his "hard working" staff around en masse is to me (but undoubtedly not to you) not a sign of acting wisely.

batmagadanleadoff Oct 02 2012 10:00 AM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

I'd dump the team before the coaches. Do you think a different staff would've coaxed 90 wins from this year's team? Because 90 wins is what it's gonna take to make the playoffs.

Edgy MD Oct 02 2012 10:00 AM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

Yes, I've seen emotions from management. Yes, I've seen signs of wisdom. And where I've seen the absence of wisdom, I've wished they've acted wiser, not more precipitously. Chasing after Francona based on his two championships, ignoring any other value concerns because "that's good enough for me" seems no wiser than chasing after Francisco Rodriguez and his 62 saves. And that was a disaster. The sort of disastrous decision that got them in this mess.

bmfc1 Oct 02 2012 10:03 AM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

batmagadmenleadoff:That's a valid point but to me, TC is a horrible manager and if you put Davey on the Mets and TC on the Nationals, my opinion is that the Nationals wouldn't have won the pennant and the Mets would have won more games, but that's obviously just a guess. All we know are the results and the Mets results were bad which normally means a managerial change, but not in this case. Edgy: nice graphic, but I don't agree and we're not going to. You'll get your wish as TC will be teaching fundamentals again in March.

Edgy MD Oct 02 2012 10:04 AM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

bmfc1 wrote: Keeping TC and his "hard working" staff around en masse is to me (but undoubtedly not to you) not a sign of acting wisely. I really think you have me wrong here. I'm rather neutral on the subject. I'm not neutral on the idea that Terry Francona's two alleged championships are all the reason one needs to hire him.

Edgy MD Oct 02 2012 10:06 AM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

bmfc1 wrote: Edgy: nice graphic, but I don't agree and we're not going to. You'll get your wish as TC will be teaching fundamentals again in March. Please don't make up stuff.

bmfc1 Oct 02 2012 10:08 AM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

He's not going to teach fundamentals? Sorry if I misinterpreted your comments.

Edgy MD Oct 02 2012 10:09 AM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

Absolutely nothing I've written here suggests it is my particular wish to have Terry Collins back in March teaching fundamentals.

HahnSolo Oct 02 2012 10:48 AM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

"Alleged" championships?

Edgy MD Oct 02 2012 10:55 AM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

The championships are certainly real. The idea that they can be particularly credited to him more than anybody else is highly debatable. Managers matter. On that we can agree. To what extent, where it can be measured, and how much that measurement is worth in dollars is where we fail to come together. I don't think folks even try. But I'm certain that the idea that managers who've been with teams that have won championships are definitively better than managers who haven't is wrong. Else, by all means, let's buy out Ozzie Guillen's contract from the Marlins.

HahnSolo Oct 02 2012 11:30 AM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

Edgy DC wrote: The championships are certainly real. The idea that they can be particularly credited to him more than anybody else is highly debatable. I agree. and I figured that was what you were trying to get at, but wasn't certain.

metirish Oct 02 2012 11:47 AM Re: Coaching staff coming back en masse next year

There's a notion out there , mainly from Keith Olbermann I would suggest, that Francona is some type of Torre clone , very welll respected yyybbb......the Red Sox brought back Bill James to a more ballyhooed role within the org last week and basically heaped praise on him for the success up to 2004 and the decline after 2008 due to the fact that he was pushed out.....it was as if Epstein and Francona weren't even there.