Master Index of Archived Threads
The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason
batmagadanleadoff Oct 06 2012 08:01 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 06 2012 08:04 AM |
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http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian ... ns-suffer/
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batmagadanleadoff Oct 06 2012 08:03 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread |
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http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/06/sport ... -debt.html
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 06 2012 08:04 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread |
Did Forbes really misspell Katz?
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batmagadanleadoff Oct 06 2012 08:06 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
[u:35z6jou5]Top 10 Funny Football Quotes[/u:35z6jou5]
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 06 2012 08:07 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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Also, why link to the lazy blogger and not to the blogger's source material? Sandomir did all the work here, Mike Ozanian is getting a vulture win and can't even spell. Eff Mike Ozanian!
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batmagadanleadoff Oct 06 2012 08:10 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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Ummmmm ..... I did that. Check out post #2.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 06 2012 08:12 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
Welll.... good. I appear to have opened the thread between posts 1 and 2.
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batmagadanleadoff Oct 06 2012 08:13 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
I know.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 06 2012 08:20 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
Who are you, Mike Ozanian?
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batmagadanleadoff Oct 09 2012 10:06 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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The New Financial Story, In Brief
http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2012/10/09/t ... -in-brief/ Sandomir's NYT piece implies, though, that if the Mets do refinance, it will be at an interest rate lower than the current one. Megdal is almost certain that the refinance rate will be higher.
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Edgy MD Oct 09 2012 10:24 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
I'd be surprised to see Howard assume any but the worst with regards to the Mets financial picture.
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metirish Oct 09 2012 10:34 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
Seriously, is Megdal implying that the minority shares money sold last year, 20 in all is gone?
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Edgy MD Oct 09 2012 10:36 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
Well, they used a chunk of that to pay off loans from MLB and Bank of America.
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Ceetar Oct 09 2012 11:27 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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it's murky without seeing the books of course, meaning no one actually knows. The BoA loan was for operating expenses. was that as it applied to 2012 payroll? 2011? some sort of bridge period inbetween? If they lost 70 million last year for instance, and dropped payroll this year and maybe don't make quite as much, they're looking at what, 40million to cover? If that's not what the loan was for, they owe more. If it was they're in a different situation. We don't really know if they're still playing catchup, although the idea as the minority sales would do that. they might be refinancing to get some cash to bridge the the payroll/expense gap, or they simply might be looking at a wise investment to minimize long term payments the same way you'd refinance a mortgage or switch to a lower interest credit card. What we do know is that Sterling could afford to put $60 (I think it was 3 shares right?) million into the Mets last season. They raised money from themselves. They knew 2013 was coming. They're not Mayan. If they needed that money they could've held on to it, sold the other three shares to someone else, and had it for this year.
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Edgy MD Oct 09 2012 11:33 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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No, nothing is truly knowable. But it was widely reported that they used a chunk of that to pay off loans from MLB and Bank of America. Neither entity has ever denied this, so I'm not sure what you're calling into question.
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Ceetar Oct 09 2012 12:14 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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That's a wash really is my point. What was the bank of america loan money used for is what I'm asking? It was taken out earlier this year, so it's not like this was some long standing debt like some seem to make it out to be. They used the money to pay for..something. the 70 million they lost last year? the money they expected to lose this year? something else? it was a bridge loan. Besides the fees associated with taking out a long for a month or two, they're in the same financial state they'd have been in if they sold the shares 2 months earlier. The money to Bank of America was spent on the team/debt/payments/etc. It all falls within the 2012 financial picture. It seems like people are erasing the BoA debit with the partial sale credit and forgetting about the BoA credit associated with it.
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Edgy MD Oct 09 2012 12:22 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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A very different point from questioning whether or not anyone really knows if they paid off the loan. Contemporary accounts reported that the BoA loan was to cover operating expenses until the minority sale went through.
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Ceetar Oct 09 2012 12:27 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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I wasn't questioning if they paid the loan, just questioning in general how much we know about the money flow. 'operating expenses' is fairly vague no? Salaries? Does David Wright get a check every two weeks, or only during the season? If so, that's payroll anyway. Or is this stuff like Citi Field's electric bill and Big Bertha game in Jeff Wilpon's office?
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Edgy MD Oct 09 2012 12:34 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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Well, that's certainly what seems to be suggested is suggested by this exchange.
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Edgy MD Oct 09 2012 12:38 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
MLB players are paid during the season.
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Ceetar Oct 09 2012 12:39 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
I should've quoted metirish's bit as well to be clear I guess, or nothing at all. He was pondering where all the money went, and you responded with that. So I was just continuing the conversation, not questioning it.
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Ashie62 Oct 09 2012 04:14 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
I understand restructuring the debt of the more credit worthy entity SNY to free up cash to pay down the debt of the team.
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Frayed Knot Oct 09 2012 05:09 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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This can actually vary with individual contracts. Some call for only in-season payments, others get paid across the entire calendar year.
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Gwreck Oct 09 2012 05:49 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
Being paid across the calendar year is the exception. I seem to recall that CC Sabathia negotiated that particular provision into his first contract with New York's Junior Circuit team.
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Frayed Knot Oct 09 2012 07:07 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
Yes, I believe you're correct, it's just not completely universal subject to individual negotiations.
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batmagadanleadoff Oct 10 2012 10:38 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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If You’re Keeping Score At Home…
http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2012/10/10/i ... e-at-home/
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batmagadanleadoff Oct 10 2012 10:42 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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Or the Mets might go with a $96M payroll. If the Mets refinance, $96M is do-able, given the team's comments about 2013 payroll possibilities.
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Edgy MD Oct 10 2012 10:42 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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How does he sleep at night, what with his brain racing to unwind the intricate and far-reaching plots the Mets are hatching at that very hour to deprive the public of joy?
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batmagadanleadoff Oct 10 2012 10:47 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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Megdal's follow-up: The Mets are building an October tradition, too By Howard Megdal 10:45 am Oct. 9, 2012 Who says the Mets don't have meaningful Octobers?
http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/s ... dition-too
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Ashie62 Oct 10 2012 12:28 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
the Mets are set to fight a pitched battle for ownership's financial survival, while at the same time, trying to keep the team's most valuable pitcher and everyday player for years to come
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batmagadanleadoff Dec 18 2012 10:31 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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Report: Citi Field Took $8 Million Revenue Hit This Year
http://www.ny1.com/content/top_stories/ ... -this-year
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Ceetar Dec 18 2012 10:32 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
Moody's upgraded the outlook on the Citi Field debt recently as well.
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batmagadanleadoff Dec 20 2012 02:49 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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Sandy Alderson promises more 2013 improvements, somehow
http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/s ... ts-somehow
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Ceetar Dec 20 2012 02:56 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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too easy sometimes. An example of this would be the money they redirected TO the Mets buy buying minority shares? And good job and not tracking the followup conversation where Davidoff mentioned that they weren't really 'deferring' the money. They're counting it as spent against this year's budget, which is where the money is going. Presumably it's being invested, like they always did with Madoff though hopefully this time someplace that it won't get seized, so what it really means is they're making a deposit into an investment account, credit to that account, debit to Mets 2013 finances as per Accounting 101. I'm good with questioning the financial situation and outlook, but this all roads lead to my narrative stuff is tiresome.
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Ashie62 Dec 20 2012 03:48 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
I hope the Wilpons fall off the fiscal cliff.
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metirish Dec 20 2012 03:52 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
Weather you believe Megdal or not to me it looks a dire situation.
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Edgy MD Dec 20 2012 03:54 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
"Cannibalized."
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Ceetar Dec 20 2012 06:09 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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does it? do people in dire straits make investments? I mean, isn't that like buying stocks when you're not sure you have the cash to pay your mortgage next month? I mean, Davidoff's tweets seemed to imply they invested it anyway. I guess it's possible they just deferred the money because they simply couldn't even make payroll without doing so, and aren't tucking that money away but paying debts with it and worrying about it later. But that seems far fetched to me, especially with a bankruptcy firm or whatever those guys were called in house helping them out.
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metirish Dec 20 2012 06:15 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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I'm sure it happens a lot.
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metirish Dec 20 2012 06:17 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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That something seems far fetched to you seems far fetched to me.
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Swan Swan H Dec 20 2012 06:27 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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I hear Mark Knopfler has quite a bit of money in Mutual Funds.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 20 2012 07:28 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
See the little f*ggot with the mooch and the CD
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 20 2012 07:30 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
He gets mutual funds for nothing and chicks for free.
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Ashie62 Dec 22 2012 08:39 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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In Vegas and AC it happens every second!
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Ashie62 Dec 22 2012 08:41 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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I want my free a-gents
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Swan Swan H Jan 03 2013 01:44 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
Good news, or bad news, depending on your perspective.
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metirish Jan 03 2013 01:53 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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Great news to start the New Year.......not going anywhere baby.....
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Benjamin Grimm Jan 03 2013 02:03 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
Yeah, as tired as I am of the Wilpons, they're going to hang in there as tenaciously as they can. Better that they have money to spend on the Mets. The alternative is to watch them stubbornly hang on to a dying franchise.
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Edgy MD Jan 03 2013 02:07 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
Megdal still writes that they're going to hell. In worse shape than they were before the trial, he says.
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Gwreck Jan 03 2013 03:51 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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If your name is Wilpon or Katz?
Every living person who wants the Mets to return to a championship-caliber ballclub?
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Ceetar Jan 03 2013 04:11 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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not mutually exclusive. And as has always been the case, the Wilpons getting it together is probably the quickest path to a financial stable Mets organization.
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Gwreck Jan 03 2013 06:05 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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There's not a shred of evidence to support that idea, unless by "financially stable" you mean "unable to spend money on free agents." I guess the Mets are stable in their austerity. Nevermind that "the Wilpons getting it together," whatever that actually means, would presumably be basically the same thing as a "financially stable Mets organization." The Mets already gave up on 2013. Would they have done that if the Wilpons had sold at this point a year ago?
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Ceetar Jan 03 2013 07:03 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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The Mets had ZERO CHANCE of being sold this point a year ago. They have probably as little chance of being sold a year from now. There are two choices: The Wilpons getting themselves together and the Mets getting into the black instead of the red (which is different than the Wilpons being fine. Any 2013 punting and payroll manipulations are geared at that, regardless of Sterling) or the Wilpons leeching every last cent out of the Mets trying to stay solvent until there are no other options left but to sell them off. Megdal thinks this is still inevitable, that the Wilpons will not be able to afford to pay the bills on the Mets and be forced to sell them as a result, but from now until that sale is final, the Wilpons then leech every cent and the Mets continue to suck. And then things don't get better, they just get ..Different. Could be just as bad. That could be years and years. But if the Mets do well this year, if the prospects look like talent, and the Wilpons stop bleeding money, them being able to invest in the Mets (And the Mets making money in their own right) and the Mets being good in 2014 becomes..likely. I don't see how the Wilpons losing their grip on the team and being forced to sell happens anywhere approaching quick.
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Edgy MD Jan 03 2013 09:04 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
I want the Mets to win a championship and I don't necessarily link that to the Wilpon family losing control.
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metsmarathon Jan 04 2013 08:48 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
in the short term, a more stable wilpon family is more conducive to winning than a less stable wilpon family, unless by less stable you mean so crushingly unstable that the cannot support tehir own weight, collapse into a superdense mass of fissile material and explode violently outwards, annihilating all within a 30 km radius, littering the landscape with scattered debris and fallout.
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Vic Sage Jan 04 2013 10:12 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
put me down as a vote for one of those "collapsing into a superdense mass" explosions.
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batmagadanleadoff Jan 04 2013 10:25 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
I think that the Wilpons' ascendancy from minority owners to something more is probably the worst event in franchise history. Worse even than the Seaver midnight massacre trade.
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Gwreck Jan 04 2013 10:31 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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This is an intriguing theory. I think you might be right, barring some sort of big turnaround in the next 3 years.
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Ashie62 Jan 04 2013 11:10 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
Everything has a price...The additional financing ensures the Wilpons don't necessarily have to sell at todays low...The Mets are an ocean liner turning around, it takes a long time....But, when it does the value and quality of the brand could spike up quickly.
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The Second Spitter Jan 05 2013 01:07 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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I also wholeheartedly agree with this. The fact the Wilpon's used the club as a vehicle for their passive investments speaks volumes as to where their priorities reside. Btw, it's great to see Cerrone plagiarizing quotes from Right Said Fred, himself:
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Edgy MD Jan 05 2013 06:16 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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Can you explain this at greater length. I don't follow "vehicle for their passive investments.... ."
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bmfc1 Jan 05 2013 10:35 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
What Second Spitter is saying is that the Wilpons are using the Mets and SNY solely to reestablish their personal wealth, lost in large part by their investments with Madoff. They are not using (as of this writing) any of the money they gain by financing, refinancing, taking out loans, and accepting loans from Major League Baseball, all in the name of the New York Mets other than to do what is absolutely necessary for the Mets--which is the minimum that they have to do. They are the only major league team not to sign a major league free agent. They are so ineptly run that they didn't trade Scott Hairston last summer and now it appears that they can't afford to resign him because he would like to have a two-year deal. To the Wilpons, the Mets are an apartment building, an office building, and nothing more. If they can cut back on the cleaning crew and have elevators skip floors to save money, they will do so. They don't care or understand that a sports team is a public trust and they have abdicated their responsibilities as the care-takers of the Mets franchise. Perhaps Sandy Alderson is playing "possum" and will sign Michael Bourn and/or Kyle Loshe at reduced rates. More realistically, perhaps he will sign Austin Kearns and/or Joe Saunders. But right now, with spring training another day closer, he hasn't which may mean that he is not empowered to do so by the Wilpons despite the recent influx of money... and that is what Second Spitter was saying. It is possible that this is part of a plan that means in 2015 and 200 or so losses later, they will have money to spend and some will say "see!" but for now, the continued ownership of the Mets by the Wilpon family is a disaster for Mets fans and if Bud Selig had a brain in his feeble head, a terrible problem and embarrassment for Major League Baseball.
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Edgy MD Jan 05 2013 10:51 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
Second Spitter, does that correctly characterize your statement?
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Swan Swan H Jan 05 2013 11:45 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
Oh. When he said 'vehicle for passive investments' I thought he meant this:
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Ceetar Jan 05 2013 11:46 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
I'm not sure when everyone started thinking Scott Hairston was Justin Upton, but they've already signed a bunch of guys with at least a passing chance of equating what Hairston did/is worth for a fraction of the price.
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Ashie62 Jan 05 2013 11:46 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
I would say the Wilpons treat the Mets as an apartment building and the fans as tenants...
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bmfc1 Jan 05 2013 12:09 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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Maybe Bixler, Gowgill and Brown will... but we know what Hairston can do so, to me, that would be a better choice for a team trying to win. I prefer another option than Hairston with his bad fielding and struggling against RHP but I'd rather have him than "a passing chance."
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Ashie62 Jan 05 2013 10:01 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
I'm on your side here.
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batmagadanleadoff Jan 06 2013 07:53 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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Ceetar Jan 06 2013 08:14 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
some of it may be dumpster diving, some of it may be selling guys that simply don't sell jeans.
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bmfc1 Jan 06 2013 09:51 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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Great line. The problem is that we are tenants in perpetuity.
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The Second Spitter Jan 08 2013 02:33 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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Something like that. In addition, the Mets and Cyclones were both named as defendants in Picard's lawsuit. There was an implication they were using money from baseball operations to invest with Uncle Bernie. I don't have a copy of the lawsuit handy; perhaps bmlo does. I also seem to recall some discussion surrounding Bonilla's buyout being invested in such a way.
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bmfc1 Jan 08 2013 05:18 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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"bmlo" doesn't but remember it as you do.
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Edgy MD Jan 08 2013 07:39 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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It seems clear to me that they were using money from their investments to support baseball operations.
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duan Jan 08 2013 07:48 AM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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I think edgy's point is totally on the money. The one caveat I'd have is that one of those investments (SNY) may have substantially benefited from below market price deal on the rights to the Mets games and that may be why the losses sustained in actual mets (which they have subsidised until the point when they had no working capital to do so) are higher then they should be. You'd have to step back and look at the real structure of the inter-company/related party transactions to genuinely unpick the SNY/Mets/Citifield revenue/costs.
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SteveJRogers Mar 21 2013 12:20 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
Still the offseason technically.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 21 2013 12:23 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
Not for nothing but these wage-and-hour lawsuits are pretty common for large employers. I'd be shocked if this turned into anything.
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Ceetar Mar 21 2013 01:28 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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either last year or the year before the Yankee Stadium security firm was suing them I believe. Mostly drop in the bucket stuff at worst I imagine. related to lawsuits but probably not finances, the Mets apparently won a lawsuit keeping the Kosher stands from opening on Friday nights and Saturdays.
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Ashie62 Mar 21 2013 01:34 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
$17 an hour is not bad for a job that requires zero education.
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SteveJRogers Mar 21 2013 02:02 PM Re: The New Mets Finances Thread - v.2012 Offseason |
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OH FUCK ME
Actually fuck the Wilpon hating troll on another forum that posted that link as if it was the news of the day... Read more...post less...
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