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Gold Gloves - 2012

Frayed Knot Oct 30 2012 07:38 AM

Did you know that the candidates for GGs were narrowed down to a list of finalists prior to the winner being announced? Yeah, neither did I. But apparently that's the case although I have no idea if it's always been like this and I'm just finding out now or if this is some new idea. It's also not entirely clear if the votes cast (by managers and coaches) are just on the nominated players or if the winner is the result of their vote from all candidates and this idea of announcing the top three or four as "finalists" is merely MLB's way to try to build tension or something. Whatever the case, here is the list of finalists with the winners to be announced tonight (9:30 on ESPN2 of all places). Most positions have three nominees although in some there are four. Again, I have no idea why the difference ... ties maybe? Wright is the only NYM nominee (I have no problem with that) with SD's Chase Headley & Milwaukee's Aramis Ramirez as his competition. bmfc's best buddy Bob Carpenter (Nats TV announcer) is going to have a stroke when he finds out that Ryan Zimmerman didn't even make the cut as one of the final three among 3rd-sackers.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 30 2012 08:03 AM Re: Gold Gloves - 2012

Funny. That link includes a comment that Brandon Phillips has already tweeted that he didn't win a Gold Glove, indicating this whole "list of finalists" thing is a stunt.

Edgy MD Oct 30 2012 09:44 AM Re: Gold Gloves - 2012

I'm kind of working on an idea of all MLB post-season awards being presented in an autumn star-studded TV award show at Radio City, with speculation about the five finalists for each award, heavy wagering, musical interludes, baseball-loving comic hosts, awkward canned jokes by un-funny celebrity and ballplayer presenters, more musical interludes, VIPs (US presidents?) pontificating about the importance of baseball to the American fabric, morning-after comments on gowns worn by starlets and baseball wives/dates, all culminating in the presentation of the championship trophy by last year's champion. It'll initially start off on some wannabe sports network but move up to ESPN and then ABC in a few years because it'll be so. fucking. awesome. The all-time highlight will be Andres Torres and Lucas Duda re-creating Abbott & Costello's famed "Who's on First?" routine.

Frayed Knot Oct 30 2012 11:19 AM Re: Gold Gloves - 2012

I remember, as part of the media's ongoing attempt to "fix" baseball, someone proposing just that a bunch of years ago. They (it was probably S.I.) had the lavish ceremony taking place in Las Vegas rather than Radio City but the concept was the same. The biggest problem I can see would be getting the players to actually show up. Between the end of a long season, winter ball, and the scattered corners of the globe to where the players tend to head for the off-season, there'd probably need to be an incentive to get them to such a gathering above and beyond simply the possibility of accepting an award.

Frayed Knot Oct 31 2012 06:41 AM Re: Gold Gloves - 2012

C -- Molina (StL) & Weiters (Bal) 1B -- LaRoche (Wash) & Teixeira (NYY) 2B -- Barney (CHC) & Cano (NYY) SS -- Rollins (Phi) & Hardy (Bal) 3B -- Headley (SD) & Beltre (Tex) LF -- Gonzalez (Col) & Gordon (KC) CF -- McCutcheon (Pitt) & Jones (Bal) RF -- Heyward (Atl) & Reddick (Oak) P -- Buehrle (Fla) & Hellickson (TB)/Peavey(CWS) tie Hardy, Reddick, Hellickson, Peavey, LaRoche, Barney, Headley, McCutcheon & Heyward are first-time winners

Edgy MD Oct 31 2012 07:42 AM Re: Gold Gloves - 2012

Great year with the glove for Wright, but Keith will be very happy to see Headley get his.

Vic Sage Oct 31 2012 10:27 AM Re: Gold Gloves - 2012 Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 31 2012 10:42 AM

Frayed Knot wrote: I remember, as part of the media's ongoing attempt to "fix" baseball, someone proposing just that a bunch of years ago. They (it was probably S.I.) had the lavish ceremony taking place in Las Vegas rather than Radio City but the concept was the same. The biggest problem I can see would be getting the players to actually show up. Between the end of a long season, winter ball, and the scattered corners of the globe to where the players tend to head for the off-season, there'd probably need to be an incentive to get them to such a gathering above and beyond simply the possibility of accepting an award. blowjobs from starlets? get that going and i think they'd make time.

Vic Sage Oct 31 2012 10:42 AM Re: Gold Gloves - 2012

Frayed Knot wrote: C -- Molina (StL) & Weiters (Bal) 1B -- LaRoche (Wash) & Teixeira (NYY) 2B -- Barney (CHC) & Cano (NYY) SS -- Rollins (Phi) & Hardy (Bal) 3B -- Headley (SD) & Beltre (Tex) LF -- Gonzalez (Col) & Gordon (KC) CF -- McCutcheon (Pitt) & Jones (Bal) RF -- Heyward (Atl) & Reddick (Oak) P -- Buehrle (Fla) & Hellickson (TB)/Peavey(CWS) tie Hardy, Reddick, Hellickson, Peavey, LaRoche, Barney, Headley, McCutcheon & Heyward are first-time winners i know nothing about defensive metrics, and what i do know i don't like, so i rely primarily on anecdotal information and aesthetic impressions to make GG assessments. 1B -- LaRoche (Wash) & Teixeira (NYY): both are legit gloves who didn't win it with their bats this year, as both get it over some superior hitters. 2B -- Barney (CHC) & Cano (NYY): i know nothing about Barney, but Brandon Phillips appears to have lost some range and i'm not sure Hill ever had any, so good for Barney. Cano? a joke, i think. won it with his bat. SS -- Rollins (Phi) & Hardy (Bal): I've long thought Hardy a great glove, but Rollins? He lost it years ago. That's a total joke. 3B -- Headley (SD) & Beltre (Tex): These seem legit to me, even if it was Mr. Wright's best year in a while. LF -- Gonzalez (Col) & Gordon (KC): I would've gone with Braun and Jennings, but i can't argue. CF -- McCutcheon (Pitt) & Jones (Bal): Is this the beginning of the anti-SABR backlash against Trout? McCutcheon is great. RF -- Heyward (Atl) & Reddick (Oak): Is Heyward all that and a bag of chips? Not with his glove he ain't. I'd take Bruce's cannon-shot arm. Reddick? I don't know. He seems like a solid all-around play P -- Buehrle (Fla) & Hellickson (TB)/Peavey(CWS): It seems to me this award would favor the junkballers who pitch to contact, so i don't take it all that seriously.

Edgy MD Oct 31 2012 10:46 AM Re: Gold Gloves - 2012

If defensive metrics aren't winning your confidence regarding which guys are getting to balls that might elude other guys, they should be able to tell by now, with some accuracy, how effective an outfielder's arm is --- not only regarding the guys you nail but the guys you freeze because they'd never run on you. Jay Bruce, for instance, had eight assists, an unimpressive number. Is he chilling the opposition from taking the extra base or failing to nail them when they do? The truth is out there.

Edgy MD Oct 31 2012 10:57 AM Re: Gold Gloves - 2012

The engagement and perspective that only Twitter can give you.

seawolf17 Oct 31 2012 11:30 AM Re: Gold Gloves - 2012

Well, Headley DID have a whole mess of RBI this year.

Frayed Knot Oct 31 2012 11:42 AM Re: Gold Gloves - 2012

Vic Sage wrote: 1B -- LaRoche (Wash) & Teixeira (NYY): both are legit gloves who didn't win it with their bats this year, as both get it over some superior hitters. 2B -- Barney (CHC) & Cano (NYY): i know nothing about Barney, but Brandon Phillips appears to have lost some range and i'm not sure Hill ever had any, so good for Barney. Cano? a joke, i think. won it with his bat. SS -- Rollins (Phi) & Hardy (Bal): I've long thought Hardy a great glove, but Rollins? He lost it years ago. That's a total joke. 3B -- Headley (SD) & Beltre (Tex): These seem legit to me, even if it was Mr. Wright's best year in a while. LF -- Gonzalez (Col) & Gordon (KC): I would've gone with Braun and Jennings, but i can't argue. CF -- McCutcheon (Pitt) & Jones (Bal): Is this the beginning of the anti-SABR backlash against Trout? McCutcheon is great. RF -- Heyward (Atl) & Reddick (Oak): Is Heyward all that and a bag of chips? Not with his glove he ain't. I'd take Bruce's cannon-shot arm. Reddick? I don't know. He seems like a solid all-around play P -- Buehrle (Fla) & Hellickson (TB)/Peavey(CWS): It seems to me this award would favor the junkballers who pitch to contact, so i don't take it all that seriously. LaRoche had a great offensive year to go with his usual steady defense, and with Votto missing large chunks of time and Pujols & Fielder moved to the AL he probably was among the best hitting 1st sackers this year also. I was reading something this summer about Barney which was arguing for his season to be included among the best defensively by a 2B evah!! I haven't seen him enough to argue for or against but the author was pretty certain. Cano is good, but his lackadaisical style annoys folks and looks that much worse when he does make mistakes as in the playoffs this year. Suddenly his 'coolest guy in the room' act wasn't as attractive to MFY fans as before. Anti-SABR/Trout? I dunno, this is managers & coaches voting remember, not media. Plus Jones is real good. Under the old 'three OFers' method they'd both win but I think we all prefer this version better even if one of those guys has to lose. Heyward seems more the type to me who can simply out-run any mistakes. Bruce has the better arm but is slower and might be more erratic. Based on small eye-samples plus word-of-mouth rep, Reddick was most deserving.

Ceetar Oct 31 2012 11:46 AM Re: Gold Gloves - 2012

Edgy DC wrote: If defensive metrics aren't winning your confidence regarding which guys are getting to balls that might elude other guys, they should be able to tell by now, with some accuracy, how effective an outfielder's arm is --- not only regarding the guys you nail but the guys you freeze because they'd never run on you. Jay Bruce, for instance, had eight assists, an unimpressive number. Is he chilling the opposition from taking the extra base or failing to nail them when they do? The truth is out there. Problems of sample size abound of course. How many legitimate first to third decisions are there in which the ball is hit to RF? How much of it's because of third base coach? (A real aggressively bad coach could cause a lot of his runners thrown out, bonus to outfielders in his division) You have to break it down by outs too, since a runner is less likely to go (and more likely to have a head start and make it easily) with two outs. But surely you should look at defensive numbers, including the arm stuff. It's better than randomly guessing based on a handful of games you've seen, or errors, or genie, or however they do this. ARM (outfield arm runs): Outfielder’s get credit (plus or minus) depending on what the runners do on a hit or a fly ball out. A runner can stay put, advance, or get thrown out. A fielder will get credit not only if he throws out more than his share of runners, but also if he keeps more than his share of runners from advancing extra bases. Bruce had a -1.7 ARM last year, and has a total of 5.2 over his career. Duda, had a -5.7 last year and -9.2 overall. I'm not sure exactly how the stat is calculated but it seems Bruce is fairly average. There were 250 balls in his zone last year (120 for Duda) so 1.7 might be a percentage? perhaps he allowed an extra base or missed an out compared to the mean on ~5 balls over the course of the year. (edit, clearly it says it's the amount of runs. so -1.7 is particually nothing. )