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Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Gwreck Nov 13 2012 04:36 PM

Sayeth Buster Olney: The Blue Jays-Marlins trade is done... This is going to be one of the all-timers, with Reyes, Johnson, Bonifacio, Buck, Buehrle...holy crow. https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/ ... 5741585408

metirish Nov 13 2012 04:45 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

WTF?

TransMonk Nov 13 2012 04:53 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Wow! I'd like Jose much more if he were a Blue Jay.

metirish Nov 13 2012 04:57 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

So all that work done to build a lasting fan base gets undone in a few weeks........Loria is a banker. All the best Mike Redmond.

Mets – Willets Point Nov 13 2012 04:58 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

If a team were run by reactionary callers to sports radio phone-in shows, it would end up like the Marlins.

metirish Nov 13 2012 05:00 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

That should be wanker, silly auto spell thing.........although banker works for Loria

Mets – Willets Point Nov 13 2012 05:01 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

metirish wrote: That should be wanker, silly auto spell thing.........although banker works for Loria LOL, it actually made sense.

HahnSolo Nov 13 2012 05:12 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Blue Jay managerial job now a lot more appealing, I would think.

SteveJRogers Nov 13 2012 05:15 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 13 2012 05:17 PM

I'd laugh if it wasn't so pathetic...ah what the hell, I'll laugh anyway! [youtube:3262hxi6]lb8fWUUXeKM[/youtube:3262hxi6]

attgig Nov 13 2012 05:16 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Mets – Willets Point wrote: If a team were run by reactionary callers to sports radio phone-in shows, it would end up like the Marlins. yup.

SteveJRogers Nov 13 2012 05:18 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

The flip side, it will be nice having Reyes do well against the MFYs for 18 games a year.

SteveJRogers Nov 13 2012 05:22 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 13 2012 05:32 PM

metirish wrote: So all that work done to build a lasting fan base gets undone in a few weeks........Loria is a banker. All the best Mike Redmond. Saw some Marlin "pom-pom waver" on a neutral board excuse the Hanley Ramirez trade by saying it was necessary to do so anyway, and not a sign of an impending fire sale. Can't wait to see the defense of this one. I know this is par the course for this franchise, but at least in the past they've waited until the championship was won before the fire sale happened.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 13 2012 05:29 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Fox Sports wrote: For the Marlins, the salary purge was shocking (based on their Opening Day payroll of roughly $100 million this year) but also predictable, when considering their organizational history of fire sales. After the trade, the club has roughly $16 million on the books for 2013, not including arbitration-eligible players. Only $16 million on the books! Holy crap.

DocTee Nov 13 2012 05:32 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Only 2 of their 9 Opening Day Starters from 2012 remain under contract...and not many more from their 25 man roster, probably. They still have Carlos Zambrano?

cooby Nov 13 2012 05:42 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Mets – Willets Point wrote: metirish wrote: That should be wanker, silly auto spell thing.........although banker works for Loria LOL, it actually made sense. good one, metirish!

TransMonk Nov 13 2012 05:48 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

I've seen more than a couple of notes left in the comments sections on the internet articles that basically say: "I'm a Marlins fan and I give up."

bmfc1 Nov 13 2012 05:50 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Jose's agents didn't ask for a no-trade clause or a clause allowing him to reject certain teams?

SteveJRogers Nov 13 2012 05:54 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

DocTee wrote: Only 2 of their 9 Opening Day Starters from 2012 remain under contract...and not many more from their 25 man roster, probably. They still have Carlos Zambrano? I gotta say this has to be worse than the 1997 championship dismantling. At least that was after getting a championship. This is exactly what Willets said, knee jerk reaction that sounds like it comes from reactionary radio callers or idle internet chatter after bad games. After another year like this I can see, but this soon, after the whole re-branding of their image, new stadium, etc. The Marlins seem to be in the running for worse run franchise in sports!

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 13 2012 05:54 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Even if they'd won the World Series this trade would be a stretch. But, they were a last place joke instead. Eff Loria, what a major douchebag.

metirish Nov 13 2012 06:08 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

"@Giancarlo818: Alright, I'm pissed off!!! Plain & Simple" @RNolasco47: Huh?.......?"

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 13 2012 06:12 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Go Blue Jays, by the way. MFYs can suck on that shit.

Frayed Knot Nov 13 2012 06:23 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

A number of the Blue Jays prospects mentioned: Adeiny Hechavarria -- SS #8 prospect acc to BA Yunel Escobar -- SS, 29 y/o Henderson Alvarez -- 22 y/o; 9-14; 3.53; 1.44 w/Toronto Anthony DeSclafani -- 22 y/o; 11-3; 3.37 in Low-A midwest Lg Justin Nicolino -- LHP, #5 Jake Marisnick -- OF, #2 There was talk late last season that the Marlins were willing to make anyone except Reyes & Stanton available. And by that they apparently mean just Stanton. Or maybe he goes in next week's deal?

seawolf17 Nov 13 2012 06:51 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Go Blue Jays, by the way. MFYs can suck on that shit. Absolutely. Tempted to even start rooting for Jose again.

dinosaur jesus Nov 13 2012 06:55 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Bowie Kuhn would have vetoed this one.

Frayed Knot Nov 13 2012 07:35 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

dinosaur jesus wrote: Bowie Kuhn would have vetoed this one. Depends on if/how much cash is involved. But as long as this is a talent for talent deal then any other team is welcome to try and match or top it.

smg58 Nov 13 2012 07:55 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Just nutty.

Farmer Ted Nov 13 2012 08:04 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

The Jays and Marlins should have merged.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 13 2012 08:19 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

So, that Canadian dollar must be strong. On the plus side, Miamians mostly don't care too much. Plus, they've still got a beautiful new sports arena/meeting space that I'm sure they can enjoy any time they want, gratis.

Nymr83 Nov 13 2012 08:20 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

If I were Stanton I'd make it 100% that I'm done with the Marlins, trade me too because I will never re-sign.

Ceetar Nov 13 2012 08:25 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Nymr83 wrote: If I were Stanton I'd make it 100% that I'm done with the Marlins, trade me too because I will never re-sign. He could pull all that bitching and moaning stuff and demand trades and probably could even attempt to hold out in Spring Training and he would've even be criticized for it like someone would otherwise.

MFS62 Nov 13 2012 09:46 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

bmfc1 wrote: Jose's agents didn't ask for a no-trade clause or a clause allowing him to reject certain teams? You are Jose Reyes...you spent the first part of your career in New York City, made a nice name for yourself and parlayed that into a contract that made you one of the wealthiest human beings on the planet, AND gave you easy access to the south beach lifestyle. You are turning 30 next year and are now being shipped to Toronto. In Miami (with its large Latin-American population) you could be king. In Toronto, you will be just another foreign shortstop with the Canadian equivalent of a green card. How do you think he feels? Later

G-Fafif Nov 13 2012 09:58 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Except for a couple of postseasons, I've never had much use for the Marlins, but on some level I wanted them to succeed as a going concern because I thought it spoke badly for baseball that it couldn't take root in Miami. But fuck that now. Move the franchise to somewhere somebody will care and let it be run by something less than a bloodless megalomaniac.

Ashie62 Nov 13 2012 11:44 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Another shining moment for all the money in pro sports. I guess anyone can be dumped..hear that Johan? Jose in Canada? wtf lol

Ceetar Nov 14 2012 05:39 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

G-Fafif wrote: Except for a couple of postseasons, I've never had much use for the Marlins, but on some level I wanted them to succeed as a going concern because I thought it spoke badly for baseball that it couldn't take root in Miami. But fuck that now. Move the franchise to somewhere somebody will care and let it be run by something less than a bloodless megalomaniac. I always thought it spoke badly for Miami.

Frayed Knot Nov 14 2012 06:14 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

It speaks badly for those running the franchise in Miami. Not that I think south Florida will ever be the greatest sports town in America (them, Atlanta & Houston are always going to be amongst the weakest IMO) but you can't play in a stadium ill-suited for the area & sport for 20 years and run the team like shit for most of that same time period, then expect to find immediate success simply because someone bought you a shiny new crib.

Ceetar Nov 14 2012 06:33 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Frayed Knot wrote: It speaks badly for those running the franchise in Miami. Not that I think south Florida will ever be the greatest sports town in America (them, Atlanta & Houston are always going to be amongst the weakest IMO) but you can't play in a stadium ill-suited for the area & sport for 20 years and run the team like shit for most of that same time period, then expect to find immediate success simply because someone bought you a shiny new crib. the Marlins had some good season though, and it's still baseball. The old place wasn't hard to get to. They packed it for the WBC. hell, it was even energetic. But I guess the fanbase thinks the WBC is of higher import than most Marlins games?

cooby Nov 14 2012 06:42 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Ashie62 wrote: Jose in Canada? wtf lol God love him.

Frayed Knot Nov 14 2012 06:47 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

The Marlins have had two good post-seasons. Other than that, they've topped 80 wins just six times in twenty seasons, 85 wins only three of them, and are still division title-less despite the two WS wins. But I'm not even talking about on-field success. It's about the way several ownerships now have treated the team and, by extension, the fan base. First Huizenga saw the team as just another one of his typical pump-then-dump assets before a series of interim mis-steps led to Loria who seems to be mysteriously coddled within MLB circles although I'm not sure why. And I'm fine with blaming MLB for expanding there in the first place without a better stadium/ownership in place, but you can't go and tear down your (mostly free) stadium-induced restructuring plan after one year because you're shocked that fans didn't flock to your park after 19 years of mostly indifference if not flat-out abuse. Do they really expect that result of this makeover is going to make it all different? And even if they did why would the peeps in south Florida believe it?

Edgy MD Nov 14 2012 06:51 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

MFS62 wrote: bmfc1 wrote: Jose's agents didn't ask for a no-trade clause or a clause allowing him to reject certain teams? You are Jose Reyes...you spent the first part of your career in New York City, made a nice name for yourself and parlayed that into a contract that made you one of the wealthiest human beings on the planet, AND gave you easy access to the south beach lifestyle. You are turning 30 next year and are now being shipped to Toronto. In Miami (with its large Latin-American population) you could be king. In Toronto, you will be just another foreign shortstop with the Canadian equivalent of a green card. How do you think he feels? Later There are plenty of Caribbeans in Toronto. It's one of the most international cities on earth.

Edgy MD Nov 14 2012 06:54 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

So now they have Stanton, a bobblehead museum, and a couple of tanks full of fish. And fish food ain't free. On the other hand, they get Yunel Escobar, and he's Cuban. And the comely Minerva Escobar comes with the trade too, I think. So there's that. Marlins win!!

Edgy MD Nov 14 2012 07:09 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Oh, and maintaining our death grip on fourth place... looks totally do-able!

metirish Nov 14 2012 07:15 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

I think I would rather live in Toronto than Miami ......not sure if Jose will care for the turf there....still, should be playing to big crowds , great city etc.

Frayed Knot Nov 14 2012 07:16 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Jeff Mathis (C) also headed to Miami in the I suppose not-yet-official deal. I hadn't heard his name initially. John Sickels' take on the prospects involved. Adeiny Hechavarria, SS: -- signed by the Blue Jays from Cuba in 2010, Hechavarria is a 5-11, 180 pound right-handed hitter and thrower, born April 15, 1989. Renowned for his defensive skills, he features above-average range and a very strong throwing arm. His bat draws mixed reviews. He hit .312/.363/.424 in 102 games for Triple-A Las Vegas this year, but just .254/.280/.365 in 126 at-bats for the Blue Jays, with four walks and 32 strikeouts. Poor plate discipline is his biggest issue, though it looked like he was making some progress in that department before being promoted to the majors. Jake Marisnick, OF: -- drafted in the third round in 2009, from high school in Riverside, California. He is a right-handed hitter and thrower, born March 30, 1991. His physical tools are first-class, with premium athleticism, good speed, a strong arm, and a chance to hit for power. His glove is ahead of the bat at this point. He hit .263/.349/.451 in 266 at-bats for High-A Dunedin this year, but just .233/.286/.336 in 223 at-bats for Double-A New Hampshire. He stole 24 bases, but a hyper-aggressive approach cut too much into his hitting skills against advanced pitching. Marisnick has the physical tools to be a star, but the skills are still quite raw. Justin Nicolino, LHP: -- drafted in the second round in 2010, from high school in Orlando, Florida. A 6-3, 190 pound lefty, he was born November 22, 1991. His 2012 season was excellent: 10-4, 2.46 with a 119/21 K/BB in 124 innings for Low-A Lansing in the Midwest League. Nicolino works with an 88-92 MPH fastball that he locates with precision. He has an excellent changeup, and his curveball is also solid, giving him three pitches to conquer hitters with. Command and control are his best attributes, and he projects as a number three starter if all goes well. Anthony DeSclafani, RHP: -- drafted by the Jays in the sixth round in 2011, from the University of Florida. A 6-2, 195 pound right-hander, he was born April 18, 1990. He had a decent year alongside Nicolino in the Lansing rotation, going 11-3, 3.37 with a 92/25 K/BB ratio in 123 innings, allowing 145 hits. He got a lot of ground balls, with a 1.88 GO/AO and just three homers allowed. Mainly a reliever in college, he was moved to the rotation as a pro to build up his innings and work on his secondary pitches. DeSclafani works with a low-90s fastball, mixing in a slider, curveball, and changeup. His control is good and he keeps the ball down, but he's hittable when he misses his spots. JS -- The Marlins got some decent prospects here, although none of them are sure things. Hechavarria and Marisnick have loud tools, but their hitting skills are questionable. Nicolino is one of the best southpaw prospects in baseball, and he's a good pickup, while DeSclafani adds more depth to a farm system that really needs it.

Kong76 Nov 14 2012 07:38 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

The first thing I did this morning was go on the internet and make sure I didn't dream this. I can't stop laughing.

metsmarathon Nov 14 2012 08:16 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

wow. just wow. i mean, i can't help but feel bad for miami, i suppose. and though the outcome was seemingly inevitable, the swiftness of it all is just appalling. i'm glad the jays made out well. hopefully the back-loaded contracts won't prove too onerous for them, and they can make some hay in the al east. i'm now free to root for jose reyes again. yay! also, i think the wilpon family should send a nice fruit basket to the loria compound, to thank them sincerely for providing a counterpoint to all the claims of them being the worst owners imaginable. fuck the wilpons, but at least they're not jeffrey loria.

Edgy MD Nov 14 2012 08:22 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

It's worth mentioning that the last two times the Marlins dumped contracts and lived on austerity budgets while rebuilding, they rebuilt well and more quickly than expected.

Ceetar Nov 14 2012 09:28 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

RT @LoMoMarlins hey @JonHeymanCBS I just read that we got mathematically eliminated from the 2013 playoffs. Is that true?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 14 2012 12:21 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

I do like that I have the option of rooting for JoseJoseJoseJose AND against the MFYs simultaneously a bunch of times a year (maybe even in person, if someone else is paying).

Mets – Willets Point Nov 15 2012 07:41 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Jos-eh?

Benjamin Grimm Nov 15 2012 07:42 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

I posted this mini-quiz on the UMDB Facebook page: Jose Reyes spent many years with the Mets, signed as a free agent with the Marlins and now, after a single season, appears to be about to become a Toronto Blue Jay. That's the same career path that Carlos Delgado experienced, only in reverse order. There are eight other players, all pitchers, who played for the Mets, Marlins, and Blue Jays. How many can you name?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 15 2012 07:45 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I posted this mini-quiz on the UMDB Facebook page: Jose Reyes spent many years with the Mets, signed as a free agent with the Marlins and now, after a single season, appears to be about to become a Toronto Blue Jay. That's the same career path that Carlos Delgado experienced, only in reverse order. There are eight other players, all pitchers, who played for the Mets, Marlins, and Blue Jays. How many can you name? Al Leiter

Edgy MD Nov 15 2012 07:49 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Armando Benitez threw a few games with Toronto on the butt end of his career.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 15 2012 08:02 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Leiter and Benitez are correct.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 15 2012 08:08 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Buncha Latin relievers, no doubt.

Edgy MD Nov 15 2012 08:12 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Heath Bell, someday soon.

seawolf17 Nov 15 2012 08:51 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Toby Borland?

Edgy MD Nov 15 2012 09:03 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Guys who should be correct answers to this but somehow aren't: Braden Looper, Mike Stanton, Manny Aybar.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 15 2012 09:06 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

That doesn't necessarily mean that Felix Heredia is a wrong answer however.

seawolf17 Nov 15 2012 09:11 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

I can think of guys who did two (Weathers Mets/Marlins, Person Mets/Jays), but I can't place either of those guys on the third team, as much as I want to.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 15 2012 09:25 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Weathers was a Blue Jay as well as a Met and a Marlin. Felix Heredia is a correct answer.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 15 2012 09:32 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Jeff Musselman is the first Blue Jay-Met I think of whenever I think of Blue Jay-Mets but wouldn't recall if he ever wore the teal. Graeme Lloyd, maybe?

Benjamin Grimm Nov 15 2012 10:06 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Yes to Lloyd.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 15 2012 12:36 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Here's the full list: Juan Acevedo, Miguel Batista, Armando Benitez, Felix Heredia, Al Leiter, Graeme Lloyd, Darren Oliver, Dave Weathers (And Carlos Delgado.)

Frayed Knot Nov 15 2012 05:16 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Commish Bud is going under the hood for the purpose of reviewing the evidence and deciding whether he should overturn the trade. "I am aware of the anger (among some Marlins fans)," Selig said. "I'm also aware that in Toronto, they're very happy." But then goes on to say that he's talked to baseball people who believe the Marlins "in terms of young players, did very well."

Ashie62 Nov 15 2012 08:22 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

The Miami Vice.

Frayed Knot Nov 19 2012 02:48 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

It's official!! Bud -- Since Tuesday, I have carefully reviewed the proposed transaction between the Miami Marlins and the Toronto Blue Jays. I asked our Baseball Operations Department and our Labor Relations Department to compare this proposed transaction with similar deals. I also consulted with experienced baseball operations executives to get their input regarding the talent involved in this transaction. After a thorough examination of this information, it is my conclusion that this transaction, involving established Major Leaguers and highly regarded young players and prospects, represents the exercise of plausible baseball judgment on the part of both Clubs, does not violate any express rule of Major League Baseball and does not otherwise warrant the exercise of any of my powers to prevent its completion. It is, of course, up to the Clubs involved to make the case to their respective fans that this transaction makes sense and enhances the competitive position of each, now or in the future. I am sensitive to the concerns of the fans of Miami regarding this trade, and I understand the reactions I have heard since Tuesday. Baseball is a social institution with important social responsibilities and I fully understand that the Miami community has done its part to put the Marlins into a position to succeed with beautiful new Marlins Park. Going forward, I will continue to monitor this situation with the expectation that the Marlins will take into account the sentiments of their fans, who deserve the best efforts and considered judgment of their Club. I have received assurances from the ownership of the Marlins that they share these beliefs and are fully committed to build a long-term winning team that their fans can be proud of. Final details: - Toronto acquires SS Jose Reyes, RHP Josh Johnson, LHP Mark Buehrle, C John Buck, IF/OF Emilio Bonifacio and reportedly $4 million to help compensate for the almost $165 million in salary headed their way (which sounds like trying to bail out the Titanic with a Dixie Cup). - Going to the Marlins are SS Yunel Escobar, IF Adeiny Hechavarria, RHP Henderson Alvarez, C Jeff Mathis, OF Jake Marisnick, LHP Justin Nicolino, RHP Anthony DeSclafani.

Ashie62 Nov 19 2012 07:32 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

So Selig has presented himself as an advocate from here on for the fans of Miami.

Edgy MD Nov 19 2012 08:21 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Bud Selig wrote: I am sensitive to the concerns of the fans of Miami regarding this trade, and I understand the reactions I have heard since Tuesday. Baseball is a social institution with important social responsibilities and I fully understand that the Miami community has done its part to put the Marlins into a position to succeed with beautiful new Marlins Park. Going forward, I will continue to monitor this situation with the expectation that the Marlins will take into account the sentiments of their fans, who deserve the best efforts and considered judgment of their Club. The governance of baseball is so weird.

Lefty Specialist Nov 21 2012 09:29 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Shorter Bud: "I wasn't going to block this anyway, so I'll make a long statement that sounds like I care."

Frayed Knot Dec 05 2012 06:39 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Yunel Escobar, the one living, breathing ML player received by Miami in their wholesale trade of Reyes et al to Toronto, has been flipped to Tampa for a minor leaguer. So whatever those meager team salary projections for the Marlins were for this coming year ... they just went down about another $5 mils.

Frayed Knot Dec 31 2012 06:56 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Marlins say they're not actively shopping him BUT ..... did say publicly this weekend that it's standard club policy for them to listen to any offers that might come their way on any player, and that Giancarlo Stanton is no exception. I think history tells us that emanations like this coming out of south Florida usually represent step one in a process that leads to the inevitable conclusion.

Edgy MD Dec 31 2012 08:10 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Build your Mets package for Giancarlo Stanton --- GO!

bmfc1 Dec 31 2012 01:09 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Harvey, Snydergaard and Duda. Watch MLB Network's "Biggest Blast" Countdown for more of Giancarlo Stanton.

Edgy MD Dec 31 2012 02:40 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

I'm not sure I could deal with the pain of that package. A fair one, however.

seawolf17 Dec 31 2012 03:39 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

No. Flores, Syndergaard, Duda.

Edgy MD Dec 31 2012 04:01 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Yeah, giving up the fantasy of Harvey and Wheeler at the top of the rotation is not something I'm ready to do, Giancarlo be damned. Flores is more or less close to ready to play in the bigs, although probably not ready to play well, but the Marlins have clearly cashed in the present. He doesn't have a position, but the Fish have to fill 'em all, so... .

metirish Dec 31 2012 04:16 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Michael Stanton could probably be had for a lot less.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 31 2012 04:23 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Maybe, but there would probably be a number of teams interested. If the Marlins show patience, they can probably get a nice package.

Edgy MD Dec 31 2012 05:49 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Stanton slugged over .600 last year. And his glove and arm are weaponized too. Whatever we're hoping for from our outfield prospects, he's it.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 31 2012 09:01 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Keep in mind-- Stanton's not even arbitration-eligible for another season. I would gulp and do anything up to/including Wheeler and Duda and [pick your A-level prospect]

seawolf17 Jan 01 2013 07:56 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

metirish wrote: Michael Stanton could probably be had for a lot less. Let's trick Loria. Sandy, call him up and ask for "Mike Stanton." Loria will get confused, see that "Mike Stanton" hasn't even had a hit since 2011, and trade him for practically nothing! Bingo!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 01 2013 08:06 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Frayed Knot wrote: Marlins say they're not actively shopping him BUT ..... did say publicly this weekend that it's standard club policy for them to listen to any offers that might come their way on any player, and that Giancarlo Stanton is no exception. But he is, insofar as he is exceptional on-field, and exceptionally cheap to keep around on payday for at least another year or two. It's gonna take a LOT of love.

Ceetar Jan 01 2013 01:11 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Edgy MD wrote: Stanton slugged over .600 last year. And his glove and arm are weaponized too. Whatever we're hoping for from our outfield prospects, he's it. this guy's clearly ready for promotion to the next level. He should be called up from the official MLB AAA club and I suggest Queens.

smg58 Jan 01 2013 04:19 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

If we traded Wheeler, Harvey, and d'Arnaud for Stanton (and there's no guarantee that would even be enough, if 28 other teams are in on the bidding), we'd have a major league team that's more or less as good as the teams that had Dickey the past two seasons, without any front-end prospects in the pipeline and with the likelihood that Stanton will command as much in arbitration over the seasons after this one as signing Dickey to an extension would have cost (meaning no additional money to go after free agents). Sure I'd want Stanton if the price is less than I think it will be, but there might be 29 teams thinking along those lines right now.

Ashie62 Jan 01 2013 05:00 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Edgy MD wrote: Yeah, giving up the fantasy of Harvey and Wheeler at the top of the rotation is not something I'm ready to do, Giancarlo be damned. Flores is more or less close to ready to play in the bigs, although probably not ready to play well, but the Marlins have clearly cashed in the present. He doesn't have a position, but the Fish have to fill 'em all, so... . The Mets almost have to wait for Flores boom or bust... Stanton? Angels Dodgers or Marlins..

Edgy MD Jan 01 2013 07:55 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Why would they have to wait? Wouldn't he be as tradeable as any other prospect at his level?

smg58 Jan 02 2013 05:31 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Flores very quietly had an excellent season. His contact rate was superb (only 60 Ks in 493 ABs over high A and AA), which leads me to think he can carry this form to higher levels. Plus he's still only 21, so even though it seems like he's been in our system forever he was not old at all for the leagues he was playing in. The only question is where to play him. If he can handle second base or centerfield, he could still be very valuable to us as something other than a trading chip.

seawolf17 Jan 02 2013 07:13 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Word on the webs is that Tim Raines has been hired as a coach by Toronto. Could he make Reyes even better? Interesting.

Frayed Knot Jan 02 2013 07:53 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

I brought up the whole Stanton story merely to illustrate the continued transformation of the revenue-share gobbling, public stadium financed Marlins and their slime-ball owner, not because I thought it would be a good idea for the Mets to trade for him. Trading for G. Stanton is what you do when you believe yourself to be a 'this-year' team that's one player away and/or because you have a minor league system with prospects to spare who are blocked by the depth in your major league squad. We're not at either spot right now. Oh, and according to any and all sources on minor league prospects, there's no way Wilmer Flores is a future CF. A 2B? ... maybe. A corner OF or 1B most likely.

Edgy MD Jan 02 2013 08:04 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

smg58 wrote: If he can handle second base or centerfield, he could still be very valuable to us as something other than a trading chip. I'm certainly not arguing that he should be a trading chip. (I hate trading chips.) I'm just not sure why the Mets he's necessarily a property the Mets have to see through, as opposed to other prospects. But I'm pretty sure there's little chance of him landing in centerfield. By almost all reports, the speed just isn't there.

Ceetar Jan 02 2013 08:08 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Frayed Knot wrote: Trading for G. Stanton is what you do when you believe yourself to be a 'this-year' team that's one player away and/or because you have a minor league system with prospects to spare who are blocked by the depth in your major league squad. We're not at either spot right now. Trading for Stanton is something you do when you believe your team is anything but perfect. He fits on roughly 29 of the 29 major league teams. The chances that even one of the guys you trade for him is worth as much as Stanton is probably slim, and clearly if the Marlins demand more than that it's not a trade you make, but there is very little downside to having Stanton on your team, this year or the three years following that, no matter what your expected record.

Edgy MD Jan 02 2013 08:16 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Yeah, Stanton is a win now/win tomorrow/win on Mars/win on Venus property. If the price is right, but you're set at his position, you still want him.

The Second Spitter Jan 02 2013 08:32 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

seawolf17 wrote: Word on the webs is that Tim Raines has been hired as a coach by Toronto. Could he make Reyes even better? Interesting. Yes, he teach him to steal while carrying a baggie of yeyo.

Frayed Knot Jan 02 2013 10:03 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Edgy MD wrote: Yeah, Stanton is a win now/win tomorrow/win on Mars/win on Venus property. If the price is right, but you're set at his position, you still want him. If the price is right, sure. But if the price is going to be (as it shirley will be) several various players and prospects, you wind up weakening the club at several positions both now and in the future in exchange for improving the hell out of one spot which is the kind of cosmetic back-page stealing, attendance-minded move that doesn't really improve the club. IOW, if I'm the Mets, I'm definitely NOT in a do whatever it takes to get Giancarlo Stanton mode.

Ashie62 Jan 02 2013 10:31 PM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Edgy MD wrote: Why would they have to wait? Wouldn't he be as tradeable as any other prospect at his level? It would make little sense to dump our top prospects for a very very good outfielder if we are truly rebuilding. With the investment in Flores I would wait for him to develop and stick with the program. No sense in turning the ocean liner in midstream now. I'd like to have Stanton but it would take much of what Sandy has gathered.. I'm not big n D'Arnaud but if, say Marlins like say..D'Arnaud, Wheeler and Cecchini I would be all in...

Edgy MD Jan 03 2013 06:24 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Maybe it would take much of what Sandy has gathered to get Stanton, but we're just talking about Flores here. He's developing toward something in some respects and not in others, and he's falling from the rankings he's had earlier in his career. I'm not arguing to trade him, but if another team sees more in him than the Mets see, I don't see how he's different from anybody else.

The Second Spitter Jan 03 2013 07:08 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

The current issue of Baseball America seems to think that Flores is a future 3B. In which case, I'm sure he'll interest the Marlins given Polanco will be filling-in until they're ready to take auditions for that position.

Frayed Knot Jan 03 2013 07:13 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

It's not that the Marlins wouldn't want Flores, the question is which other 3-5 players/prospects they're going to want in addition to Flores before they agree to let go of Stanton.

The Second Spitter Jan 03 2013 07:26 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

For the record, BA's top 10 prospects in the Mets system (excluding the Dickey loot): 1. Wheeler (RHP) 2. Gavin Cecchini (SS) 3. Brandon Nimmo (OF) 4. Luis Mateo (RHP) 5. Rafael Montero (RHP) 6. Flores (3B/2B) 7. Michael Fulmer (RHP) 8. Jeurys Familia (RHP) 9. Domingo Tapia (RHP) 10. Cory Mazzoni (RHP) If we designated d'Arnaud as a non-prospect (cos there's a 99.95% chance he'll make the 25 man roster) Syndergaard prolly slots in at 2.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 03 2013 07:29 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

The Second Spitter wrote: there's a 99.95% chance he'll make the 25 man roster I'm not so sure of that. I expect he'll play for the Mets before too much of 2013 has elapsed, but I doubt that he'll go north with the Mets when they break spring training. My guess is that we'll see d'Arnaud in June some time.

The Second Spitter Jan 03 2013 07:39 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Benjamin Grimm wrote: The Second Spitter wrote: there's a 99.95% chance he'll make the 25 man roster I'm not so sure of that. I expect he'll play for the Mets before too much of 2013 has elapsed, but I doubt that he'll go north with the Mets when they break spring training. My guess is that we'll see d'Arnaud in June some time. Surely d'Arnaud is ahead of Recker in the depth chart . Is there somebody else I'm familiar with?

Ceetar Jan 03 2013 07:42 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

The Second Spitter wrote: The Second Spitter wrote: there's a 99.95% chance he'll make the 25 man roster I'm not so sure of that. I expect he'll play for the Mets before too much of 2013 has elapsed, but I doubt that he'll go north with the Mets when they break spring training. My guess is that we'll see d'Arnaud in June some time. Surely d'Arnaud is ahead of Recker in the depth chart . Is there somebody else I'm familiar with? d'Arnaud saves a year of arbitration by waiting on him a couple of weeks. barring injury it sounds like Recker/Buck

Benjamin Grimm Jan 03 2013 07:43 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

I think the plan is to go with Buck and Recker to start the season. It will get Travis some more time in AAA (his season last year was cut short by injury). Also, and perhaps more importantly, it will delay his eligibility for free agency by a year. If he goes north in April, he can become a free agent after the 2018 season, but if they keep him in the minors for a while, the Mets control him through 2019. They'll probably do the same with Wheeler. It's what they did with Ike Davis as well.

Frayed Knot Jan 03 2013 07:47 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

For the record, BA's top 10 prospects in the Mets system (excluding the Dickey loot): 1. Wheeler (RHP) 2. Gavin Cecchini (SS) 3. Brandon Nimmo (OF) 4. Luis Mateo (RHP) 5. Rafael Montero (RHP) 6. Flores (3B/2B) 7. Michael Fulmer (RHP) 8. Jeurys Familia (RHP) 9. Domingo Tapia (RHP) 10. Cory Mazzoni (RHP) If we designated d'Arnaud as a non-prospect (cos there's a 99.95% chance he'll make the 25 man roster) Syndergaard prolly slots in at 2. Well D'arnaud certainly IS a prospect seeing as how these off-season lists judge them by their current status of ML service time not where they expect them to be a year from now. BA did update their list following the Dickey deal and slotted D'arnaud at #2, Syndergaard 3rd. Baseball Prospectus & John Sickels released their lists right after the deal (see the 'Prospects' thread) and had the same top 3 although Sickels ranked D'arnaud 1st and Wheeler 2nd rather than the other way around.

smg58 Jan 03 2013 08:01 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

I'll go on record as saying I'm against that if d'Arnaud looks in ST like he's already a better player than Buck.

Edgy MD Jan 03 2013 08:02 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Frayed Knot wrote: It's not that the Marlins wouldn't want Flores, the question is which other 3-5 players/prospects they're going to want in addition to Flores before they agree to let go of Stanton. My question with Ashie is different.

Edgy MD Jan 03 2013 08:05 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Edgy MD wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: It's not that the Marlins wouldn't want Flores, the question is which other 3-5 players/prospects they're going to want in addition to Flores before they agree to let go of Stanton. My question with Ashie is different. The issue with assuming D'Arnaud comes north out of spring training is that he has to demonstrate that he's recovered. Let's not forget that we bought us a wounded warrior. He hasn't played since June.

Ceetar Jan 03 2013 08:12 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Spring Training will determine it. They didn't want to go north with Nieuwenhuis either (although the depth charts were theoretically better, but Buck=Torres seems apt too) and ultimately didn't despite ST success until an injury forced the issue.

Edgy MD Jan 03 2013 11:33 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Usually things are just getting interesting when Dave Kingman's name comes up. But that's where Marty Noble loses me. Does he lose you?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 03 2013 11:42 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 03 2013 11:45 AM

Didn't expect it quite so up front there, either. Handedness aside, Stanton's obviously far more Reggieish, or McCovey-y. Frank Robinson, if you're a stickler. Young Pedro Guerrero, maybe? Who IS today's actual Kingman of the Future? Mark Reynolds? Trumbo?

seawolf17 Jan 03 2013 11:43 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

Wait, what? But at this point, the club that occasionally drains its roster of proven players has let it be known that it would consider dealing the Dave Kingman of his time. Stanton has 373 big league games on his resume and has demonstrated more offensive skill than Kingman ever did.

metsmarathon Jan 03 2013 11:45 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

well, i mean of course they should call up and ask about stanton. maybe even swap around some potential trade packages. get a feel for what it would take. i don't expect it would come to any meaningful fruition, but, sure, why not, right? maybe call up the angels and ask about that trout kid too. what would it take, and what's a fair package? those are the really important questions to which marty has no answer.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 03 2013 11:46 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

They both hit more than a few long home runs. It's a little like calling Adam Dunn the Rickey Henderson of the '00s, since he walked so much.

metsmarathon Jan 03 2013 11:53 AM Re: Reyes + half the Marlins team to Toronto

also, if you were truly dying for a metly correlation to stanton, why not darryl?