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Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Edgy MD Nov 14 2012 11:13 AM

Torii Hunter becomes Torii Tiger-Hunter.

Frayed Knot Nov 14 2012 11:14 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Was rumored to be a target of the Yanx to be their designated old outfielder for 2013. Guess you can't always get what you want.

smg58 Nov 14 2012 02:22 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

I guess Torii would rather play for a winner.

Ceetar Nov 14 2012 02:28 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

long time Twin, I assume Tigers fans will need some time, in fact, the one I know: Did that happen? I like him, but I don't get it Too many outfielders... I want more Tigers with misspelled first names

Ashie62 Nov 14 2012 04:40 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Frayed Knot wrote: Was rumored to be a target of the Yanx to be their designated old outfielder for 2013. Guess you can't always get what you want. Too classy to be an MFY.

Frayed Knot Nov 14 2012 05:03 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

On the other hand, the Tiggers paid a shit-load for him. I wouldn't have thought he'd get anywhere near 2x$13 considering that he'll turn 38 mid-season 2013

Ceetar Nov 16 2012 12:31 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Melky Cabrera to the Blue Jays, 2 years, $16. seems like a good deal to me. I'd have taken him for that.

TransMonk Nov 16 2012 01:58 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Ceetar wrote: Melky Cabrera to the Blue Jays, 2 years, $16. seems like a good deal to me. I'd have taken him for that. I think you would have a better chance of affording that pricetag than the Wilpons do. The Jays have some winning to do. Do they have a manager yet?

Ceetar Nov 16 2012 01:59 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

TransMonk wrote: Ceetar wrote: Melky Cabrera to the Blue Jays, 2 years, $16. seems like a good deal to me. I'd have taken him for that. I think you would have a better chance of affording that pricetag than the Wilpons do. The Jays have some winning to do. Do they have a manager yet? that fits the Mets budget pretty easily, depending what they plan to do about the other outfield spots and a RH catcher and some bullpen. nope, no manager yet.

TransMonk Nov 16 2012 04:03 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Ceetar wrote: that fits the Mets budget pretty easily, depending what they plan to do about the other outfield spots and a RH catcher and some bullpen. I'll believe it when I see it.

smg58 Nov 16 2012 07:26 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Right, I have no idea how much money the Mets are willing to spend. But I wouldn't have spent it on Cabrera.

Ashie62 Nov 16 2012 07:35 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

If the Mets only have money to go after one or maybe two guys I'd lie to see them shoot higher than Melky Cabrera.

Ceetar Nov 16 2012 07:41 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Ashie62 wrote: If the Mets only have money to go after one or maybe two guys I'd lie to see them shoot higher than Melky Cabrera. at least free agent wise, there might not BE higher. (Angel Pagan?) Especially if you're only buying two years of Cabrera's prime, versus probably haven't to buy more of someone you think will be better. Even if they swing a trade for Justin Upton, that's 3/40.

smg58 Nov 18 2012 06:06 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

I'm not convinced that that the Mets couldn't get Napoli if they offered him that contract and a full-time catching job. In other news, the Marlins signed Juan Pierre for a year and $1.6M. I've never been huge on the guy, and the Mets are saturated with left-handed hitters, but for that price I'd have given him a look.

Ceetar Nov 18 2012 06:22 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

smg58 wrote: I'm not convinced that that the Mets couldn't get Napoli if they offered him that contract and a full-time catching job. In other news, the Marlins signed Juan Pierre for a year and $1.6M. I've never been huge on the guy, and the Mets are saturated with left-handed hitters, but for that price I'd have given him a look. no interest in Juan Pierre whatsoever. Rather keep Torres. did Napoli get an offer/sign somewhere? I wouldn't overpay for him, but Napoli would be a nice addition.

Ashie62 Nov 18 2012 10:17 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Ceetar wrote: Ashie62 wrote: If the Mets only have money to go after one or maybe two guys I'd lie to see them shoot higher than Melky Cabrera. at least free agent wise, there might not BE higher. (Angel Pagan?) Especially if you're only buying two years of Cabrera's prime, versus probably haven't to buy more of someone you think will be better. Even if they swing a trade for Justin Upton, that's 3/40. After the PED's do we know what Melky's ceiling is?

Ceetar Nov 18 2012 03:51 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Ashie62 wrote: Ashie62 wrote: If the Mets only have money to go after one or maybe two guys I'd lie to see them shoot higher than Melky Cabrera. at least free agent wise, there might not BE higher. (Angel Pagan?) Especially if you're only buying two years of Cabrera's prime, versus probably haven't to buy more of someone you think will be better. Even if they swing a trade for Justin Upton, that's 3/40. After the PED's do we know what Melky's ceiling is? we don't even know if the PEDs had any effect.

smg58 Nov 21 2012 06:44 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Chone Figgins, whose performance post-signing made the Mariners wish they got Jason Bay instead, is DFA'd. Also DFA'd is Bryan LaHair, who was actually an All-Star for the Cubs last year. LaHair slumped after the midway point, but he was already getting pushed out of the way by Anthony Rizzo and then by Brett Jackson. He still finished with a .784 OPS last year, which makes it puzzling that he's apparently looking to latch on in Japan.

Ceetar Nov 21 2012 07:08 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

smg58 wrote: Chone Figgins, whose performance post-signing made the Mariners wish they got Jason Bay instead, is DFA'd. Also DFA'd is Bryan LaHair, who was actually an All-Star for the Cubs last year. LaHair slumped after the midway point, but he was already getting pushed out of the way by Anthony Rizzo and then by Brett Jackson. He still finished with a .784 OPS last year, which makes it puzzling that he's apparently looking to latch on in Japan. I think it's because his first half was fueled by un-replicatable things and a lot of power by running into a couple. 14 HR in the first half, 2 in the second. .600 BABIP in April which was his real good month. Otherwise he's basically a 30 year old Quad-A player.

smg58 Nov 21 2012 07:27 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Jonny Gomes gets 2 years and $10M to aim for the Green Monster. Generous for a righty platoon player whose natural position is DH. That might set the market for Hairston uncomfortably high.

Farmer Ted Nov 26 2012 08:43 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Happy negotiations, Sandy. David and his agents will surely refer to this in the very near future. The Rays have announced a contract extension for third baseman Evan Longoria worth $100 million over six seasons with a club option in 2023. In effect, the Rays picked up their three options and added another six guaranteed years. The additional years are tacked on to the end of Longoria’s current contract — considered one of MLB’s most team friendly deals — that had his salary increasing from $6 million in 2013 to $11.5 million in 2016. Longoria will be 37 years old if he plays out the extension through the 2022 season. Longoria batted 289/.369/.527/.896 with 17 home runs and 55 RBI in a 2012 season in which injuries limited him to 273 at-bats in 74 games.

Ashie62 Nov 26 2012 11:27 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Brian Lahair is officially turning Japanese.

Frayed Knot Nov 26 2012 01:25 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Ashie62 wrote: Brian Lahair is officially turning Japanese. You really think so?

TransMonk Nov 26 2012 04:44 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Frayed Knot wrote: Ashie62 wrote: Brian Lahair is officially turning Japanese. You really think so? Brian Lahair on his palms, maybe.

Frayed Knot Nov 27 2012 10:30 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Ryan Madson - formerly of the Phillies and, on paper anyway, a member of the 2012 Reds although he sat out the entire year with TJ surgery after signing a large contract, looks like he's headed to Disneyland to close and/or set-up for the Angels.

smg58 Nov 28 2012 06:46 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Ernesto Frieri had a 2.30 ERA and 90 strikeouts in 68 innings, but why settle for him when you can pay for a more "experienced" closer coming off an injury? Both LA teams are hoping that a seemingly infinite amount of cash can overcome a very finite amount of baseball sense. It hasn't happened yet.

Ceetar Nov 28 2012 06:49 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

smg58 wrote: Ernesto Frieri had a 2.30 ERA and 90 strikeouts in 68 innings, but why settle for him when you can pay for a more "experienced" closer coming off an injury? Both LA teams are hoping that a seemingly infinite amount of cash can overcome a very finite amount of baseball sense. It hasn't happened yet. if they're thinking about madsen as closer, I hope Sandy's on the phone with the Angels about Frieri right now.

MFS62 Nov 28 2012 09:09 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

According to ESPN.com Barring a last-minute trade that did not appear likely or other reversal, the Mets plan to non-tender three players by the Friday night deadline -- right-handers Mike Pelfrey and Manny Acosta and center fielder Andres Torres, according to major league sources. Do you agree with those moves? Later

Benjamin Grimm Nov 28 2012 09:14 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Absolutely.

Swan Swan H Nov 28 2012 09:19 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

If I never see Torres again I'd be a happy boy. I can't put my finger on it, but something about him chafed me like few Mets ever have.

metsmarathon Nov 28 2012 09:57 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

i wouldn't mind seeing pelfrey back, but at a lesser salary than he would otherwise have been due. maybe stuff it with some bonuses. the dude's got potential, he just struggles to harness it fully. and his start to the season was certainly promising.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 28 2012 01:51 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

I agree; I'd be fine with bringing Pelfrey back, but not at the salary that he'd have to get if he wasn't non-tendered. It's a necessary move.

Frayed Knot Nov 28 2012 03:50 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

BJ Upton to the Braves - 5 year deal Essentially then he'll replace Michael Bourne. Younger than Bourne but with more power, lower OBP, worse defense.

smg58 Nov 28 2012 07:35 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

$15M a year for a guy who can be counted on for a .750 OPS? Better them than us.

Ashie62 Nov 28 2012 07:43 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013 Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 28 2012 08:45 PM

smg58 wrote: $15M a year for a guy who can be counted on for a .750 OPS? Better them than us. There are folks still waiting for B.J. Upton to break out.

metsmarathon Nov 28 2012 07:51 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

he's a 3-4 WAR player, per fangraphs (more than i would have expected). that's slightly more than $15M performance value, so if he maintains that level and plays healthy throughout, its not an outrageous deal. that said, he's surely no lock to maintain that level as he seems to consistently underproduce. and it also leaves no margin against injury or the ravages of age. he's coming on his peak years, though. it's still a bad deal, but not awful. i;d rather have bourn, though he's older and will likely command more money.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 28 2012 07:56 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

B. J. Upton may not be quite as good as Bourn with the glove, but if he is, it's because Bourn is damn good. Upton is still a pretty good centerfielder. That said, I think I'd rather have Bourn's superlative defense and speed versus B. J. Upton's good-to-pretty-good pop/speed/defense. Still... a fair-ish deal, assuming Upton stays the same guy over the life of said deal. OE: What the guy above me said.

smg58 Nov 28 2012 08:05 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Ceetar wrote: smg58 wrote: Ernesto Frieri had a 2.30 ERA and 90 strikeouts in 68 innings, but why settle for him when you can pay for a more "experienced" closer coming off an injury? Both LA teams are hoping that a seemingly infinite amount of cash can overcome a very finite amount of baseball sense. It hasn't happened yet. if they're thinking about madsen as closer, I hope Sandy's on the phone with the Angels about Frieri right now. They've put Jordan Walden on the block. There might be a good buy-low opportunity there.

duan Nov 29 2012 06:34 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

I think it seems like quite a lot of dough. He was no better then Angel Pagan in 2012 & 2010.

Edgy MD Nov 29 2012 07:26 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

And I imagine Angel Pagan's agent just got a little breathy.

Frayed Knot Nov 29 2012 07:44 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

duan wrote: I think it seems like quite a lot of dough. He was no better then Angel Pagan in 2012 & 2010. Interesting comp. Let's even throw Angel's sub-par 2011 into the mix so as to not seem as if we're just selectively cherry-picking our data here and look at their 2010-2012 seasons collectively Upton -- 242/317/436; 1,883 PAs; 404 Hits; 69 HRs; 174 XBHs Pagan -- 281/334/415; 1,824 PAs; 467 Hits; 26 HRs; 145 XBHs So Upton shows significantly more power [.196 IsoP vs .134] but you'd have to view that with home field factors in mind as Angel put up those numbers in two extreme pitcher environments in CitiField and Telephone Stadium (he didn't even get to use the "easy" version of CF) and virtually all the difference is 2Bs + 3Bs turned into HRs. Angel balances that out with making fewer outs [approx Lg avg OBP vs below avg] Both have speed: Upton averages 39 steals vs 12 caught [per/162 games], Pagan's at 29/8 Both play CF and are above average gloves. I get the idea that Upton is less erratic defensively but maybe that's because we got to witness the up-close/warts-and-all version of Angel on a regular basis. Angel has a rep for spacing out at times, Upton for dogging it. Now Upton is a full three years younger which is certainly a factor as far as the length & total of a contract. But both are FAs this year and while Pagan seems to be more of a late-bloomer, Upton has really never matched the season he had at age 22 in 2007. It's like he's anti-peaking.

Ceetar Nov 29 2012 07:49 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

.393 BABIP in 2007 in his best year. I'm certainly not upset that he signed for that much as a Brave.

MFS62 Nov 29 2012 08:12 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

If I had my choice of the Uptons, I'd pick Kate ..., or are we just talking baseball? Later

Ceetar Nov 29 2012 08:23 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

MFS62 wrote: If I had my choice of the Uptons, I'd pick Kate ..., or are we just talking baseball? Later I think David Wright could score with Kate at that plate at least as well as Justin.

Frayed Knot Nov 29 2012 10:57 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Upton -- 242/317/436; 1,883 PAs; 404 Hits; 69 HRs; 174 XBHs Pagan -- 281/334/415; 1,824 PAs; 467 Hits; 26 HRs; 145 XBHs Bourn's totals over those same three seasons - the last one-plus with Atlanta Bourn -- 279/346/376; 2,030 PAs; 506 Hits; 13 HRs; 124 XBHs So clearly the Braves have upgraded their power, even if at the expense of more outs. I get the impression that Bourn is the best pure CF of this group (although not in a run-away) and is shirley the best base-stealer averaging 55/12 (SB/CS per/162) for his career. Upton is two years younger than Bourn. This also helps to balance the Braves lineup a bit more as the right-handed Upton replaces the LH-swinging Bourn and mixes in with the other left-swinging Atlantans such as Heyward, Freeman & McCann

Ashie62 Nov 29 2012 11:19 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

MFS62 wrote: If I had my choice of the Uptons, I'd pick Kate ..., or are we just talking baseball? Later Priceless..

seawolf17 Nov 29 2012 11:54 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Ashie62 wrote: MFS62 wrote: If I had my choice of the Uptons, I'd pick Kate ..., or are we just talking baseball? Later Priceless.. Twelve years, $500 million. MAKE IT HAPPEN, SANDY.

Swan Swan H Nov 29 2012 06:55 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Russell Martin, Pirates, two years, $17 million.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 29 2012 09:13 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

LOL

Ceetar Nov 30 2012 05:37 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Swan Swan H wrote: Russell Martin, Pirates, two years, $17 million. kinda wish the Yankees had trumped that.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 30 2012 06:11 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Swan Swan H wrote: Russell Martin, Pirates, two years, $17 million. WOOOO!

Frayed Knot Nov 30 2012 01:12 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

BP points out that the Russell Martin deal (2 yrs/$17 mil) becomes the biggest Pittsburgh FA deal ever! Prior to this, these were the largest. Clint Barmes: 2 years, $10.5 million Derek Bell: 2 years, $9.75 million Kevin Correia: 2 years, $8 million Jeromy Burnitz: 1 year, $6 million Lyle Overbay: 1 year, $5 million

metirish Nov 30 2012 01:13 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

That's nuts! Ddin't Burnett hate pitching to him, or was that Cervelli?

smg58 Nov 30 2012 09:18 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

New free agents thanks to non-tenders include: John Lannan LHP (unspectacular, but mostly at least adequate and has a local connection) Tom Gorzelanny LHP from the Nationals (curious to see him on this list as he was a solid lefty arm out of the pen; he could definitely help here but he might have quite a few suitors) Mark Reynolds 1B/3B (Dave Kingman with a much better glove at 1B; I'd be curious if I thought he could play the outfield) Ian Stewart 3B (Was awful this year but has talent; could be a useful reserve infielder on a team less loaded with lefty hitters than us) Rich Hill LHP (another capable lefty into the pool; he's fought his way back from injuries and still has some upside) Rafael Perez LHP (another lefty fighting his way back) And from us: Pelfrey, Acosta, and Torres. No surprises there. I'd consider bringing Pelfrey back at a discount. As awful as Acosta was for the first six weeks of the season -- there's no understating it, and he should have been demoted long before he was -- he's generally been much better than that (and was in August and September) and would be worth a minor-league deal. I generally prefer offense over defense with NL reserves, especially in the outfield, so I don't see any benefit to bringing Torres back.

Frayed Knot Dec 03 2012 07:51 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

1B, James Loney - TB Rays - One year deal. He was the essentially the only real player the BoSox got from the Dodgers in last year's mega-deal, but of course they didn't really want him, just the salary relief and a temporary replacement for A. Gonzalez so he became a non-tendered FA. I thought this guy was going to be a star when I first saw him. Now he's in the middle of his supposed prime (29 next May) and settling for a $2mil deal coming off his arbitration-determined $6+ last year.

Swan Swan H Dec 03 2012 08:43 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Red Sox reportedly close to a deal with Mike Napoli. Might this shake Saltalamacchia loose? OE: They signed David Ross earlier, but are apparently looking for Napoli to live at first base more than behind the plate. Still, this is leaves the Sawx with four guys who can catch on the roster, if you count Lavarnway.

sharpie Dec 03 2012 08:51 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Jason Marquis re-signs with San Diego. BFD.

sharpie Dec 03 2012 02:08 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Angel Pagan re-upping with Giants.

Ashie62 Dec 03 2012 03:52 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Napoli 3/39 Pagan 4/40

vtmet Dec 03 2012 09:32 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

sharpie wrote: Angel Pagan re-upping with Giants. I can't believe that Pagan got 4 years and $40 Mil from the Giants...yes, he had a nice season, but this is a guy that has been extremely inconsistent so far in his career...

Frayed Knot Dec 03 2012 10:09 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Jochim Soria to Texas for two years The former closer for the Royals didn't pitch at all in 2012 due to his second Tommy John surgery - yet is still only 28 y/o

MFS62 Dec 03 2012 10:12 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Ashie62 wrote: Napoli 3/39 Pagan 4/40 Wright's contract is starting to look like a bargain. Later

Zvon Dec 03 2012 10:17 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

vtmet wrote: sharpie wrote: Angel Pagan re-upping with Giants. I can't believe that Pagan got 4 years and $40 Mil from the Giants...yes, he had a nice season, but this is a guy that has been extremely inconsistent so far in his career... Ditto.

vtmet Dec 03 2012 10:18 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

MFS62 wrote: Ashie62 wrote: Napoli 3/39 Pagan 4/40 Wright's contract is starting to look like a bargain. Later other than the length of Wright's contract, I don't think it's really that bad...Jason Werth, Teixeira, Adrian Gonzalez, Jose Reyes, and Carl Crawford are all getting paid more per season than Wright is in his new deal...

Ceetar Dec 04 2012 07:08 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

vtmet wrote: sharpie wrote: Angel Pagan re-upping with Giants. I can't believe that Pagan got 4 years and $40 Mil from the Giants...yes, he had a nice season, but this is a guy that has been extremely inconsistent so far in his career... guy's probably better than B.J. Upton who got 5/75. Pagan might be a bit old at the end of it, but that's a pretty good contract for a guy like Pagan.

smg58 Dec 04 2012 07:14 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

vtmet wrote: sharpie wrote: Angel Pagan re-upping with Giants. I can't believe that Pagan got 4 years and $40 Mil from the Giants...yes, he had a nice season, but this is a guy that has been extremely inconsistent so far in his career... He's had three nice seasons out of his last four, and even the fourth would have looked good in the Mets' 2012 outfield. Plus, I can't fault a team that just won a World Series for placing an extra premium on the guys that helped them do it.

smg58 Dec 04 2012 07:17 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Ashie62 wrote: Napoli 3/39 Pagan 4/40 Makes you wonder why the Rangers didn't give Napoli a qualifying offer to get draft compensation. I'm also really not sure why teams would think that anybody capable of wearing catching gear is more valuable as a first baseman.

vtmet Dec 04 2012 10:41 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

smg58 wrote: Napoli 3/39 Pagan 4/40 ... I'm also really not sure why teams would think that anybody capable of wearing catching gear is more valuable as a first baseman. other than a rare exception like a Mike Piazza or a young Bryce Harper, I would agree...I really wondered why the A's took Scott Hatteberg, a relatively weak hitting catcher, and converted him into a very weak hitting first baseman...Hatteberg, possessed a .267 average; .414 slugging percentage and a .771 OPS as Boston's catcher; and then actually digressed power-wise as the A's 1st baseman: .269 average; .396 slugging percentage; .751 OPS...IMO, those numbers are ok for a catcher, but horrible for a first baseman... But from what I understand, Napoli's career numbers at Fenway (and to a smaller sample size at new Yankee Stadium) have been pretty impressive to the Red Sox brass... Limited sample size but, Napoli's Fenway/Yankee3 splits: 9 Homeruns, 4 doubles, 23 RBI combined in Fenway/Yankee Stadium in 105 at bats... http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... r&t=b#site

Frayed Knot Dec 04 2012 11:04 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

smg58 wrote: I'm also really not sure why teams would think that anybody capable of wearing catching gear is more valuable as a first baseman. Because he's not considered a good catcher--that's why Scioscia got rid of him in the first place--and buying full-fledged 1st basemen on the open market is very expensive (Boston was supposedly in the market for LaRoche but backed off). Plus his RH power should play well in Fenway (it has in small samples) and with the occasional catching job and DH roles as fallbacks they should get plenty of use out of him. I really wondered why the A's took Scott Hatteberg, a relatively weak hitting catcher, and converted him into a very weak hitting first baseman. That, as all readers/watchers of 'Moneyball' know, had more to do with costs and the under-exploited value of OBP than anything else. Yes, you don't make Hatteberg your 1Bman if you've got better options but Oakland couldn't afford better options and therefore had to improvise. That he got on-base for the A's over 35% of the time and averaged about 40 XBHs/year indicates that they didn't do too badly for themselves with the move considering they got 4 years out of him for about half (<$9 mil total) of what the Yanx paid the guy they he was replacing (Giambi) for each season (~$17) and they won an average of 94.5 games/year while doing so.

Farmer Ted Dec 04 2012 11:41 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Dan Haren to the Nats.

sharpie Dec 04 2012 12:23 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Jason Bay to the Mariners.

vtmet Dec 04 2012 12:38 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013 Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 04 2012 12:39 PM

sharpie wrote: Jason Bay to the Mariners. kind of makes sense for Bay, geographically...He's from British Columbia and went to college in Washington... However, for a guy trying to regain his lost offense, is Safeco the best place? It is nice that he found a job before spring training & hopefully for him, it's not just a spring invite situation....Seems like a nice guy and it's a shame that the wheels fell off his bus...

Frayed Knot Dec 04 2012 12:38 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Farmer Ted wrote: Dan Haren to the Nats. That's a helluva 5th starter, even if he is coming off an off year. 1 year deal, $13 mils. Essentially replaces Edwin Jackson and sits behind Strasburg, Zimmermannnnn, Detwiler & Gonzalez even though he'll make more dough than all of them.

vtmet Dec 04 2012 12:54 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Frayed Knot wrote: I really wondered why the A's took Scott Hatteberg, a relatively weak hitting catcher, and converted him into a very weak hitting first baseman. That, as all readers/watchers of 'Moneyball' know, had more to do with costs and the under-exploited value of OBP than anything else. Yes, you don't make Hatteberg your 1Bman if you've got better options but Oakland couldn't afford better options and therefore had to improvise. That he got on-base for the A's over 35% of the time and averaged about 40 XBHs/year indicates that they didn't do too badly for themselves with the move considering they got 4 years out of him for about half (<$9 mil total) of what the Yanx paid the guy they he was replacing (Giambi) for each season (~$17) and they won an average of 94.5 games/year while doing so. I understand the "moneyball" OBP POV...I just don't agree that for a first baseman, a bunch of walks for a slow guy can equal/exceed "Total Bases" backed largely by extra-basehits... I'm sure that if you compare the right "walker" with a worse-case "slugger" (say, Hatteberg's best season vs David Kingman's worst season) that a case can show value leaning towards the slow walker, but I want doubles/HRs/RBI from my first baseman not a guy that goes up to the plate with men in scoring position & first base open trying to draw a walk so that a guy like Josh Thole gets the chance for an RBI with guys on "1st & 2nd" (or worse, a guy takes a borderline 3rd strike in that situation ending a possible rally)...Obviously, a Jeff Franceour type is a bad choice, but there should be a balance between taking hittable pitches and swinging at bad pitches (and yes, I know Frenchy isn't a first baseman, just using his "I'm gonna swing no matter what" approach as an example)...

Edgy MD Dec 04 2012 01:14 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Frayed Knot wrote: Farmer Ted wrote: Dan Haren to the Nats. That's a helluva 5th starter, even if he is coming off an off year. 1 year deal, $13 mils. Essentially replaces Edwin Jackson and sits behind Strasburg, Zimmermannnnn, Detwiler & Gonzalez even though he'll make more dough than all of them. That's also a team that kept legit big-league starters John Lannan and Zach Duke cooling their heels in Syracuse all of last year. Zuke just re-upped with them yesterday only to see himself knocked back down the depth charts in under 24 hours.

Frayed Knot Dec 04 2012 02:43 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

I understand the "moneyball" OBP POV...I just don't agree that for a first baseman, a bunch of walks for a slow guy can equal/exceed "Total Bases" backed largely by extra-basehits... Again, it was more a matter of what they could afford than identifying Hatteberg as the ideal choice. To quote the movie (because it's fresher in my mind than the book): Scout: We have to replace Giambi Billy Beane: Is there another 1st baseman out there like Giambi? Scout No BB: And if there were could we afford him?

Edgy MD Dec 04 2012 02:50 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

"Scott, let's be honest. You've thrown your last ball from behind the plate." --- Brad Pitt version of Billy Beane They didn't convert him to first to improve his value. They did it to salvage what value they could. He was through as a catcher.

vtmet Dec 04 2012 03:54 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Edgy MD wrote: "Scott, let's be honest. You've thrown your last ball from behind the plate." ---Brad Pitt version of Billy Beane They didn't convert him to first to improve his value. They did it to salvage what value they could. He was through as a catcher. I'm a little vague on his defensive skills as a catcher...Did he blow out his throwing arm as a catcher? I see that he only nailed 9 % of potential base stealers in his last season as a catcher...I don't know if I believe the stats on baseball-reference because it's showing that he allowed 115 steals in only 72 games (581 innings behind the plate)...that kind of makes Mike Piazza look like Yadier Molina...

Frayed Knot Dec 04 2012 04:12 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Hatteberg had nerve damage in his elbow IIRC, hence his ability to be a catcher was not only gone but it wasn't coming back.

vtmet Dec 04 2012 04:40 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Frayed Knot wrote: Hatteberg had nerve damage in his elbow IIRC, hence his ability to be a catcher was not only gone but it wasn't coming back. I did not realize that...that would explain the move to 1st base...thanks...

Swan Swan H Dec 05 2012 12:45 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Eric Chavez leaves the Yankees with one less option to cover the gaping hole that is their third base situation. Arizona, 1 year, $3M.

Swan Swan H Dec 05 2012 12:56 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

And in other 'people the Yankees were considering' news, Jeff Keppinger to the ChiSox, 3 years, $12 million.

Edgy MD Dec 05 2012 01:06 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Ty Wigginton fans, time to get excited.

Mets – Willets Point Dec 05 2012 01:26 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Edgy MD wrote: Ty Wigginton fans, time to get excited. Should we expect a return of Bret Sabermetric?

Frayed Knot Dec 05 2012 05:10 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Lefty reliever Sean Burnett leaves Washington for two-year deal in Anaheim.

Swan Swan H Dec 05 2012 07:41 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Officer Joe Blanton signs with the Anaheims, 2 years, $15M. And Nate Schierholtz is a Cubbie, 1 year, $2.25M. Might have been worth a shot in Flushing if he hit from the other side of the plate.

A Boy Named Seo Dec 05 2012 08:29 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Blanton went from being completely mediocre to being really, really crappy, but still gets paid. Most similar: Fresno Jones (973) Most similar at the same age: Bobby J Jones again (983) I talke Fresno and his pretty curveball and full, boring goatee over Blanton and his chin fuzz 10 times outta 10.

Vic Sage Dec 06 2012 11:22 AM jason bay

Not official yet but, according to a tweet from Andy Martino/NY Daily News, the Mariners have reached an agreement to sign left fielder Jason Bay pending a physical. It's a one-year deal worth $1M, with another $2M in incentives, according to Jon Heyman/CBS Sports. Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/12/m ... vm3RJjU.99

Frayed Knot Dec 08 2012 04:07 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Michael Young goes to Philly in a deal for two minor league pitchers. Young had spent his entire career with Texas where he was the franchise leader (Texas version anyway) in games, at-bats, runs, hits, doubles and triples. A bit sad when that happens but he's seemed increasingly less happy there for a couple of years now. I guess he's slated for 3B duty in Philly. That'll give them a pretty good hitting infield although one that's old enough (36, 34, 34, 33) to scream 'Get off My Lawn' at any opposing batters who reach base.

smg58 Dec 08 2012 09:34 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Koji Uehara signs with Boston for a year and $4M.

Frayed Knot Dec 10 2012 06:21 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Mark Reynolds winds up in Cleveland.

sharpie Dec 10 2012 07:27 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Which means the Youkilis will surely be a Yanqui.

Edgy MD Dec 10 2012 09:11 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Wiggum. I say Wiggum.

Edgy MD Dec 10 2012 01:10 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Regarding Reynolds, I'm a little curious where the Orioles are gonna turn for firstbasin'. Chris Davis lost the job last year, but ended up doin' a lot of DHin'. Maybe Davis returns to first and Lucas Duda ends up at DH with a bird on his hat. I dunno. It'll be curious to see if the Orioles go for Morse or LaRoche.

Swan Swan H Dec 15 2012 08:55 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Mike Adams (2 yrs, $12m) and John Lannan (no terms yet) agree to deals with the Phillies. OE: Also, Xavier Nady to the Royals, where he and Jeff Francoeur can do the old Harpo Marx mirror routine.

Swan Swan H Dec 15 2012 09:58 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Edgy MD wrote: Ty Wigginton fans, time to get excited. Particularly those in St. Louis. Two years, $5 million.

metirish Dec 16 2012 05:02 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Pelfrey joins the Twins says Heyman.

Frayed Knot Dec 16 2012 05:07 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Andruw heads for Japan

Ashie62 Dec 16 2012 05:12 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

metirish wrote: Pelfrey joins the Twins says Heyman. Player to be named way later in the Santana trade....

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 16 2012 07:46 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

metirish wrote: Pelfrey joins the Twins says Heyman. fuk.

metsmarathon Dec 16 2012 10:00 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

in light of the dickey trade, that one hurts...

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 16 2012 10:18 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Well, because he was "ours," yeah, I guess. There remain a host of cost-effective options.

smg58 Dec 17 2012 05:01 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

metirish wrote: Pelfrey joins the Twins says Heyman. For $4M plus incentives, which is more than I would have gone in for. There are still plenty of similar options. Moving on...

metsmarathon Dec 17 2012 07:35 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Well, because he was "ours," yeah, I guess. There remain a host of cost-effective options. i'm a sucker for sentimentality. i'd hopes we could bring him back on teh cheap and he would rebound and recover and reclaim the prominence we once had high hopes for.

Swan Swan H Dec 17 2012 01:25 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

To make room for Ian Stewart the Cubs DFA'ed Jeff Beliveau. This is mildly surprising, as he was penciled in as the left wing on the third line next season.

Frayed Knot Dec 17 2012 01:32 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

SS Steven Drew inks a one-year deal with the BoSox. That should work out well seeing as how his brother was oh-so popular during his stint with the Sawx ... Bazinga! JD was known as "Nancy" Drew up there after a fairly short time. Can't be long until younger bro inherits that title if either he or the team gets off to a tough start.

Frayed Knot Dec 17 2012 01:33 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Swan Swan H wrote: To make room for Ian Stewart the Cubs DFA'ed Jeff Beliveau. This is mildly surprising, as he was penciled in as the left wing on the third line next season. Maybe that's been the Cubs problem for much of the last century ... too weak on the left wing.

Swan Swan H Dec 20 2012 01:34 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Placido Polanco (translation: calm, cheap wine) 1 year, 2.75 million to be the only adult on the Miami Marlins.

Edgy MD Dec 20 2012 01:46 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Frayed Knot wrote: Swan Swan H wrote: To make room for Ian Stewart the Cubs DFA'ed Jeff Beliveau. This is mildly surprising, as he was penciled in as the left wing on the third line next season. Maybe that's been the Cubs problem for much of the last century ... too weak on the left wing. But suddenly much stronger on keyboards.

seawolf17 Dec 20 2012 01:47 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Edwin Jackson four years, $52 million to the Cubs.

smg58 Dec 20 2012 01:53 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Considering that he only got one year last offseason and wasn't really that good for the Nats, he can't complain. Cubs fans might, however.

Frayed Knot Dec 20 2012 02:22 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Hey, with a four-year contract he has a shot at actually starting a season with the same club two years in a row, something that hasn't happened since he was with the Rays from 2006-08. - Since the end of the 2008 season Jackson has been traded five times (including once in a three-way deal, three times at the trading deadline, and twice on the same day) plus been a FA twice. - the Cubs will be his eighth team (LAD, TBR, ARZ, DET, CWS, StL, WAS) ninth if you include that he was also a paper Blue Jay for part of one day - he just turned 29

MFS62 Dec 20 2012 02:49 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Closing in on lefty pitcher Dick Littlefield (9 teams). Later

Swan Swan H Dec 20 2012 06:54 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

A.J. Pierzynski, Texas Rangers, one year, money not announced.

seawolf17 Dec 20 2012 07:01 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

MFS62 wrote: Closing in on lefty pitcher Dick Littlefield (9 teams). Later Your leader? Octavio Dotel, 13.

Frayed Knot Dec 20 2012 07:29 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

The almost freaky thing about the travels of Octavio Dotel was that even though it seems like he was here for just the blink of an eye (and, really, he was, just over half-a-year) his innings pitched as a Met (85-1/3) are the 3rd most of all the teams he visited since. Only for Houston & the ChiSox has he pitched more. That's what happens I guess when you hit 13 teams over 14 years. In fact only for Houston (5 years) the ChiSox and the A's (2 each) has he pitched more than one season meaning that many of those "seasons" with various teams were really just partials as he's changed teams in-season six times including pitching for three different squads in each in both 2010 & 2011. He's also yet to hit up any team a second time. Strictly a love 'em and leave 'em type. Just turned 39, may have some innings (and teams) left in him yet.

Frayed Knot Dec 23 2012 09:19 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Raul Ibanez = Mariner (whence he originally started in MLB) on a one year deal. He'll turn 41 at mid-season and, although he clearly still has his HR stroke, he'll find it tougher to ring 'em up in Seattle even if they are pulling their fences in somewhat for 2013. BoSox & Pirates reportedly close on a deal which would send closer candidate Joel Hanrahan (and his seemingly required designed chin fuzz) to Boston One year ago this week the Sawx sent OFer Josh Reddick and others to Oakland for closer candidate Andrew Bailey who promptly spent most of the year on the DL. So Hanrahan may be their 3rd closer try (including once heir-apparent Daniel Bard) since Papelbon left just one year ago.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 23 2012 10:30 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Indians give 4 douchy years, 56 million douchy dollars to Nick Swisher.

MFS62 Dec 23 2012 10:38 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Indians give 4 douchy years, 56 million douchy dollars to Nick Swisher. At least in Cleveland, he won't have to wory about sucking in the post-season. Later

sharpie Dec 23 2012 11:14 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Cody Ross, 3 years, to DBacks.

Frayed Knot Dec 26 2012 01:39 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Scott Kazmir - minor league deal/invite to ST, Cleveland Native Americans

Swan Swan H Jan 15 2013 12:47 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Rafael Soriano to the Nationals, two years, $28 million, with a $14 million vesting option for 2015.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 15 2013 12:48 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Swan Swan H wrote: Rafael Soriano to the Nationals, two years, $28 million, with a $14 million vesting option for 2015. Good F*cking Lord.

smg58 Jan 15 2013 12:57 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

That's over the top, and then there's a draft pick going to the Yankees as well. Better them than us.

Frayed Knot Jan 15 2013 01:55 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

That'll teach Storen to blow a save in October. This might also load the Nats up for one last blockbuster this winter, packaging Morse & one of Storen/Clippard to someone for something - most likely to help re-stock their farm system drained in the trades for Gio Gonzalez & Denard Span

Fman99 Jan 15 2013 02:03 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Swan Swan H wrote: Rafael Soriano to the Nationals, two years, $28 million, with a $14 million vesting option for 2015. It's OK, we have an awesome closer too! His name is, uh, wait, let me think about this...

Frayed Knot Jan 16 2013 07:11 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Frayed Knot wrote: This might also load the Nats up for one last blockbuster this winter, packaging Morse & one of Storen/Clippard to someone for something - most likely to help re-stock their farm system drained in the trades for Gio Gonzalez & Denard Span Well, no relievers involved, but Morse does get sent away in a three-way deal with Oakland & Seattle - Morse winds up with the Mariners as they continue to try and improve their weak offense in the year they bring in the fences (Kendry Morales, Jason Bay, Raul Ibanez) - catcher John Jaso goes to the A's - and Oakland, who has now made three significant trades with the Nats in the last 13 months, sends prospect pitcher AJ Cole & Blake Treinen, plus a PtbNL to Washington. Cole was originally Nats property (4th round pick 2010) but was sent away in the Gonzalez deal last December. He pitched in A-ball last year. Treinen is a 24 y/o RHP who was also in A-ball in 2010 Morse winds up back in Seattle which is where the Nats got him in the first place.

Ashie62 Jan 20 2013 03:05 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

This is too funny...Josh Thole has been informed by Toronto's GM, per Rotoworld, that he will begin the season at AAA..Buffalo! Josh, you can run but you cannot hide.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 20 2013 06:10 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Yeah, fuck that autograph-signing, utterly-modest guy!

Ashie62 Jan 20 2013 08:47 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

It's not a dig at Thole's personality, just a note on the irony of his coming travels.

MFS62 Jan 29 2013 09:24 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Scott Atchison to the Mets. http://www.rotoworld.com/player/mlb/3929/scott-atchison He elected not to have surgery. But if his arm has healed, he could be an excellect addition to the bullpen. Later

smg58 Jan 29 2013 09:47 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

He certainly didn't perform poorly last year, but the Red Sox were concerned enough to non-tender him after he posted a 1.58 ERA and a 0.99 WHIP. Seems low risk, high potential reward.

Vic Sage Jan 30 2013 01:04 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Atchison? Now all we have to do is promote Mejia and trade with the Os to get back Darren O'Day. Then we'd have a bullpen of... Atchison, Mejia and D O'Day.

metirish Jan 31 2013 06:00 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

The New York Mets Sign RHP LaTroy Hawkins To A Minor League Deal

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 31 2013 06:41 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Mortality flash-- he's 40. I would have guessed, "well-worn 34-35." He's been surprisingly serviceable when not hurt (see: 2010) over the last couple of years; plus, it's always nice for TC to have somebody else to discuss Watergate or "Diff'rent Strokes" with.

Edgy MD Jan 31 2013 07:17 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

"LaTroy Hawkins? That guy's old."

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 31 2013 07:18 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Famous for his role in the Craig Brazzell Game.

MFS62 Jan 31 2013 07:22 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

He was too young for the Yankees. Later

Ashie62 Jan 31 2013 07:25 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Vic Sage wrote: Atchison? Now all we have to do is promote Mejia and trade with the Os to get back Darren O'Day. Then we'd have a bullpen of... Atchison, Mejia and D O'Day. Or Dewey Churnham & Howe.

Swan Swan H Jan 31 2013 09:23 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

LaTroy received congratulatory messages from his younger brothers Andy and Coleman.

Edgy MD Jan 31 2013 09:24 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Sophie B. was her usual standoffish self.

Mets – Willets Point Jan 31 2013 09:27 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Edgy MD wrote: Sophie B. was her usual standoffish self. Damn!

TransMonk Jan 31 2013 11:47 AM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Mets – Willets Point wrote: Edgy MD wrote: Sophie B. was her usual standoffish self. Damn! Two BOCs for the price of one.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 31 2013 01:09 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Edgy MD wrote: "LaTroy Hawkins? That guy's old." Like I said, "someone else." That guy's gotten a LOT out of his 36 years, hasn't he?

Edgy MD Jan 31 2013 01:13 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

Definitely looks like he'd be a good guy to explain to me the differences among several different models of Coleman Coolers at Home Depot. Shawn Marcum's Tiger Beat days are also behind him. Last I saw that guy, he was kamakaze-ing his fighter jet into the enemy mothership in Independence Day.

seawolf17 Jan 31 2013 01:47 PM Re: Winter Signings of 2012-2013

If he still has that beard, I wonder how many ignorant fans will call "RA!" across the parking lot to him.