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How early is too early?

Never

1 votes

Yes, but only with a short window - say a week

4 votes

Yes, up to a month

1 votes

Yes and open-ended, as long as the states want to make it

3 votes

Frayed Knot Oct 26 2012 07:54 AM

... for voting I mean. I get that this 'early voting' trend is catching on to varying degrees in different states and I suppose it creates convenience for some and maybe is even easier for the states as well to spread things out. But it seems odd to me that it's been going on for weeks already in some places and that the idea of taking a few minutes out of a day designated long in advance is now considered too much of a hassle for some people. There's always been the absentee route for folks who knew ahead of time that they weren't going to be available that day, but early voting goes beyond that and caters to those who simply don't feel like waiting. Then I heard a story yesterday about a old man wanting to cast an early ballot because he knew he was dying - and in this case he did and he did, meaning that the vote of someone no longer alive on election day is going to count ... and he wasn't even from Chicago. In this case we could say it was only a week or so, but does it become less OK if it was two weeks, or four, or six? Where does one draw the line for people who could conceivably die, move, or leave the country in the time between casting their vote and election day? And, yes, I'm wondering if this could lead to increased fraud.

Ceetar Oct 26 2012 07:59 AM Re: How early is too early?

Frayed Knot wrote: And, yes, I'm wondering if this could lead to increased fraud. This is the part I'm more concerned with. But in some cases the fraud revolves around improper manning of election booths and lines and that sort of thing, so opening up the option of voting early eliminates things like trying to keep the working poor from voting because they don't have time to wait an hour on a polling line. Sure, the guy died/left the country whatever between voting and actual election day, but how many more do so between election day and inauguration anyway? I don't really mind the early voting, it seems weird, but whatever.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 26 2012 08:30 AM Re: How early is too early?

I think it should start the Friday before Election Day. It can be hard to vote on a Tuesday if you have to go to work and you don't work near your polling place. But if voting lasted from Friday to Tuesday, a five-day span, most people would have at least one day off during that period.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 26 2012 09:02 AM Re: How early is too early?

Frayed Knot wrote: ... for voting I mean. I get that this 'early voting' trend is catching on to varying degrees in different states and I suppose it creates convenience for some and maybe is even easier for the states as well to spread things out. But it seems odd to me that it's been going on for weeks already in some places and that the idea of taking a few minutes out of a day designated long in advance is now considered too much of a hassle for some people. There's always been the absentee route for folks who knew ahead of time that they weren't going to be available that day, but early voting goes beyond that and caters to those who simply don't feel like waiting. Some people simply don't feel like waiting, granted. But waiting more than a few minutes isn't an option for a LOT of people who don't work near voting areas and/or can't take long breaks from work and/or have young children to pick up/drop off/care for afterwards and/or have short- or long-term health concerns that make waiting dangerous or extremely uncomfortable. The potential for voter fraud in early voting, frankly, does not seem substantially greater-- and, in a lot of situations, seems less-- than that offered by new voting technologies/inexperienced poll workers.

sharpie Oct 26 2012 09:45 AM Re: How early is too early?

I can see it for some people but personally I look forward to the ritual of going to the polling place and voting on Election Day.

Frayed Knot Oct 26 2012 09:53 AM Re: How early is too early?

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I think it should start the Friday before Election Day. It can be hard to vote on a Tuesday if you have to go to work and you don't work near your polling place. But if voting lasted from Friday to Tuesday, a five-day span, most people would have at least one day off during that period. I've long thought about something along these lines also. Maybe the states would balk at the increased costs of manning polling places and/or getting volunteers for days on end but it also might solve other problems. Plus it could help some of the western states with their complaint about how networks calling the election before their polls even close hurts turnout in their local races. By starting their voting earlier - even if it were just by a day or two - they could close their polls earlier (say 6 PM) on election day itself and therefore better synch themselves up with the east without "cutting off" any of their own people. In any case, I'd be more willing to support a shortened early voting period as opposed to this recent open-ended 'whenever you get around to it' trend.

Vic Sage Oct 26 2012 09:56 AM Re: How early is too early?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: ... for voting I mean. I get that this 'early voting' trend is catching on to varying degrees in different states and I suppose it creates convenience for some and maybe is even easier for the states as well to spread things out. But it seems odd to me that it's been going on for weeks already in some places and that the idea of taking a few minutes out of a day designated long in advance is now considered too much of a hassle for some people. There's always been the absentee route for folks who knew ahead of time that they weren't going to be available that day, but early voting goes beyond that and caters to those who simply don't feel like waiting. Some people simply don't feel like waiting, granted. But waiting more than a few minutes isn't an option for a LOT of people who don't work near voting areas and/or can't take long breaks from work and/or have young children to pick up/drop off/care for afterwards and/or have short- or long-term health concerns that make waiting dangerous or extremely uncomfortable. The potential for voter fraud in early voting, frankly, does not seem substantially greater-- and, in a lot of situations, seems less-- than that offered by new voting technologies/inexperienced poll workers. This. and both absentee ballots and votes from our armed services have always had the possiblity that votes are counted by folks who may be deceased by Tuesday. I have way more concern about voting booth fraud and coercion, and the potential abuses for electronic balloting.

Ceetar Oct 26 2012 10:02 AM Re: How early is too early?

Vic Sage wrote: This. and both absentee ballots and votes from our armed services have always had the possiblity that votes are counted by folks who may be deceased by Tuesday. I have way more concern about voting booth fraud and coercion, and the potential abuses for electronic balloting. I feel like there is way more potential for voter fraud without electronic balloting. If anything, they need to step up the electronic stuff and unify it across the nation.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 26 2012 12:31 PM Re: How early is too early?

Ceetar wrote: Vic Sage wrote: This. and both absentee ballots and votes from our armed services have always had the possiblity that votes are counted by folks who may be deceased by Tuesday. I have way more concern about voting booth fraud and coercion, and the potential abuses for electronic balloting. I feel like there is way more potential for voter fraud without electronic balloting. If anything, they need to step up the electronic stuff and unify it across the nation. Electronic balloting has many plusses to it. Imperviousness to fraud ain't one of 'em.

Ceetar Oct 26 2012 12:48 PM Re: How early is too early?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Ceetar wrote: Vic Sage wrote: This. and both absentee ballots and votes from our armed services have always had the possiblity that votes are counted by folks who may be deceased by Tuesday. I have way more concern about voting booth fraud and coercion, and the potential abuses for electronic balloting. I feel like there is way more potential for voter fraud without electronic balloting. If anything, they need to step up the electronic stuff and unify it across the nation. Electronic balloting has many plusses to it. Imperviousness to fraud ain't one of 'em. Then _make it so_ it's still easier to protect than random people hand counting ballots and multiple people touching them and all the other various ways voting is handling. Leave more of a trail too that you can detect fraud. You can simultaneously send the results to different places for redundancy purposes. I send a string of numbers to a bank electronic multiple times a day and they give me cash for it! securely! without someone intercepting it. People wire money all over the place. Make it better.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 26 2012 07:02 PM Re: How early is too early?

Oh, I'm not arguing against electronic voting. I'm just arguing against your point that it's the most fraud-free way to do things. It's easier and more expedient, granted. But if those votes are being compiled via networked computers and recorded without paper receipts, well... that OPENS the door to fraud on a much larger scale than you could EVER achieve by hand in THIS country, these days.

Ceetar Oct 26 2012 07:24 PM Re: How early is too early?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Oh, I'm not arguing against electronic voting. I'm just arguing against your point that it's the most fraud-free way to do things. It's easier and more expedient, granted. But if those votes are being compiled via networked computers and recorded without paper receipts, well... that OPENS the door to fraud on a much larger scale than you could EVER achieve by hand in THIS country, these days. I wasn't saying that it's without flaws in it's current incarnation (nor are the reports I've seen about some of the systems not passing tests, and being affiliated with the Romney campaign comforting) but I'm pretty confident with maybe a smidge of the billions of dollars spent on campaigns they could come close to perfecting it in way that doesn't make me feel like I'm voting in a third world country that just discovered electricity.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 26 2012 07:33 PM Re: How early is too early?

The problem is that those billions aren't being spent at all on voting machines (at least-- he hams, twiddling his cigar-- not in an R & D way) or improving the process in any substantive way.

Ashie62 Oct 26 2012 07:46 PM Re: How early is too early?

My voting location still uses chads and a ballot box.

Ceetar Oct 26 2012 08:28 PM Re: How early is too early?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: The problem is that those billions aren't being spent at all on voting machines (at least-- he hams, twiddling his cigar-- not in an R & D way) or improving the process in any substantive way. yeah, that's what I meant. Maybe spare a measly 1% to do so?

Edgy MD Oct 27 2012 07:34 AM Re: How early is too early?

It seems to me that increased early voting can lead to increased coercion. I realize electronic voting can lead to increased fraud. But a zillon dollars are securely exchanged through ATMs every day with the full trust of the American people. If that can be airtight, with full buy-in, why can't we get electronic voting machines right? They can even spit out a pair of punched ballots as well as filing the electronic vote. The voter can drop the first in a barrel on his way out the door, so we have paper backup if the integrity of the electronic vote is challenged, and the voter has his or her own copy to contest with if he or she think his or her vote was mis-counted. Armed forces voting seems like it shouldn't be an issue. Polling places can be built on military bases overseas, opened a day or two early, and wired to the correct states at the end of that period but within the election day period. Some service members on patrol will have a tough time getting to the polling place, but it's workable with a few minor compromises, I think. Overall, not waiting to end of the campaign out of convenience suggests to me that you're not bringing a lot of gravity to your vote. I look forward to the guy who files his vote two weeks early and then wants it back when some dramatic event or revelation makes his choice suddenly embarrassing. Much of this can be cleared up if we pull one of our lesser observed work holidays off the calendar and combine it with election day.

Ceetar Oct 27 2012 09:18 AM Re: How early is too early?

Edgy DC wrote: Much of this can be cleared up if we pull one of our lesser observed work holidays off the calendar and combine it with election day. Would America really grind to a halt if we, omg, added one more mandatory federal holiday?

Edgy MD Oct 27 2012 04:00 PM Re: How early is too early?

Part of me wonders if it's grinding to a halt right now. I'm against more holidays. The dialogue regarding holidays is just awful. Somebody proposes Susan B. Anthony Day and if you say boo, you're anti-woman. Somebody else wants 9/11 Day and if I say boo, I'm in favor of terrorism. So most politicians (quite reasonably) don't want this day, because why not that day? It's hard enough to keep people working as it is. You want a new holiday, you're going to have stand up, face the Italian-American community and tell them you are replacing the 100% not-observed Columbus Day.

Ceetar Oct 27 2012 05:55 PM Re: How early is too early?

Edgy DC wrote: Part of me wonders if it's grinding to a halt right now. I'm against more holidays. The dialogue regarding holidays is just awful. Somebody proposes Susan B. Anthony Day and if you say boo, you're anti-woman. Somebody else wants 9/11 Day and if I say boo, I'm in favor of terrorism. So most politicians (quite reasonably) don't want this day, because why not that day? It's hard enough to keep people working as it is. You want a new holiday, you're going to have stand up, face the Italian-American community and tell them you are replacing the 100% not-observed Columbus Day. I AM the Italian-American community. I'll console my fellows with lasagna, and they'll be sated. just because the dialogue sucks doesn't mean the idea behind it is bad. Besides election day, the last Saturday in October should be Halloween. screw this mid-week stuff. Our national pastime, so Opening Day should be a holiday. There are probably some other good ones I'm not thinking of. I'm pretty confident this won't affect the economy or productivity at all in America. I'd argue that the rigidness of how things have to be done and 40 hour work weeks from 9-5 and all that is affecting our innovation. I know that I'd get the same amount of work done in 30, 40, or 50 hours. Too much of office climate is just about 'being there' over actually accomplishing anything.

seawolf17 Oct 27 2012 06:22 PM Re: How early is too early?

The argument against Columbus Day as a real holiday is a legitimate one.