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RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 03 2012 11:20 AM

Jayson Stark ?@jaysonst Sources say #Mets have gotten "serious" about trading R.A. Dickey as soon as this week. #Rangers & #Royals seen as most logical fits.

Swan Swan H Dec 03 2012 11:26 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

That works - either Rangers Asset Dickey or Royals Asset Dickey.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 03 2012 11:45 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

I hate to see him go, but I do find myself hoping that the Mets get an irresistible offer for him.

metirish Dec 03 2012 11:50 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I hate to see him go, but I do find myself hoping that the Mets get an irresistible offer for him. basically this is where I am.......I would really like to see him get a new contract but if the Mets were to get something that makes sense then do it....of course what I think makes sense and what they think makes sense could be totally different.....

metsmarathon Dec 03 2012 11:54 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

if we trade him, it better be worth it.

Edgy MD Dec 03 2012 11:54 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Got Zack Wheeler for 60 potential games (44 in actuality) of Carlos Beltran. Sandy set his own bar high.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 03 2012 12:50 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Who might Texas or Kansas City offer for R.A. Dickey? And... the Royals were 72 and 90 in 2012. Why would they be trading young players for a 38-year-old pitcher?

A Boy Named Seo Dec 03 2012 01:00 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Don't know about Texas but Wil Myers seems the dude everyone wants from KC. Don't know if he can be had, but he'd seem to fit our needs pretty well. KC also said to be 'interested' in James Shields and Jon Lester so they're lookin'.

Frayed Knot Dec 03 2012 01:06 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Dec 03 2012 01:12 PM

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Who might Texas or Kansas City offer for R.A. Dickey? And... the Royals were 72 and 90 in 2012. Why would they be trading young players for a 38-year-old pitcher? KC has lots of young hitters, not so much in pitching. They've already signed/traded for two pitchers this winter (Earvin Santana & Jeremy Guthrie) and are looking for more. Wil Myers (RH - OF) - their best prospect and probably will be among the top 10 in all of baseball by those folks who rank such stuff this winter - has already been speculated about. Texas has an interesting dilemma; still young SS Elvis Andrus is a good player but SS prospect Jurickson Profar is even youngerer and even betterer (at least potentially - hit .281/368/452 in AA as a 19 y/o). Andrus is supposedly being dangled for pitching/other position help although a wrench just got thrown into those works by Profar pulling himself out of the Dominican Winter Lg season with a strained forearm. Wonder what Dickey + Tejada would net?

metirish Dec 03 2012 01:10 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Don't know about Texas but Wil Myers seems the dude everyone wants from KC. Don't know if he can be had, but he'd seem to fit our needs pretty well. KC also said to be 'interested' in James Shields and Jon Lester so they're lookin'. A quick search shows Lester gets mentioned too.....I doubt Dickey gets us Myers?, or I should say that Dickey would be third on that list if you're the Royals. Meanwhile an article on Myers and the science of predicting top prospects..... http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/w ... index.html

Ceetar Dec 03 2012 01:27 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Don't know about Texas but Wil Myers seems the dude everyone wants from KC. Don't know if he can be had, but he'd seem to fit our needs pretty well. KC also said to be 'interested' in James Shields and Jon Lester so they're lookin'. A quick search shows Lester gets mentioned too.....I doubt Dickey gets us Myers?, or I should say that Dickey would be third on that list if you're the Royals. Meanwhile an article on Myers and the science of predicting top prospects..... http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/w ... index.html And yet Dickey's got a cheap price next year and was the best of those three over the last three years. If there's no insane demand for him, theoretically it drives the price of the extension down.

Swan Swan H Dec 03 2012 01:42 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

The Anaheims are also supposedly looking for pitching. Peter Bourjos had a nice year in 2011 but got Trouted in 2012.

Edgy MD Dec 03 2012 01:45 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Is he bordering on Trout? That's the question, I think.

Swan Swan H Dec 03 2012 01:48 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Edgy MD wrote: Is he bordering on Trout? That's the question, I think. I think this year Trumbo and Trout are Bordering on Bourjos, but that could change.

metirish Dec 03 2012 01:53 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

I really trout that we get a Grade A prospect here.....very troutful.

Swan Swan H Dec 03 2012 02:23 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

metirish wrote: I really trout that we get a Grade A prospect here.....very troutful. Irish is fishing for a BOC....

Edgy MD Dec 03 2012 02:58 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Rumors have the Mets talking with Boston and interested in outfielder Jackie Bradley and shortstop Xander Boegaerts. My Daddy always told me that if somebody offers you a Xander Boegaerts, you take it.

Edgy MD Dec 03 2012 03:00 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Coincidentally, topping Beisbol America's Boston Red Sox Prospect List.

Frayed Knot Dec 03 2012 03:28 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

BP's too Xander Bogaerts - Position: IF DOB: 10/01/1992 Height/Weight: 6’3’’ 175 lbs. Bats/Throws: R/R Drafted/Acquired: International free agent, 2009, Aruba 2012 Stats: .302/.378/.505 at High-A Salem (104 games); .326/.351/.598 at Double-A Portland (23 games) The Tools: 6+ hit; 6+ power potential; 6 arm What Happened in 2012: You mean, besides hitting for power and average in the Carolina League before moving up to Double-A as a teenager and continuing the offensive onslaught by ripping 15 extra-base hits in only 23 games? Strengths: Simple, fluid swing mechanics; very natural barrel-to-ball relationship; projects to hit for both plus power and batting average; shows plus-plus bat speed; shows ability to drive the ball all over the park; can square velocity; arm is plus; plays game with feel and instincts; solid glove; could have above-average defensive profile at third base. Weaknesses: Aggressive in the box; soft and spinning can get him off-balance; will need to expand pitch appetite (fastball eyes); exaggerated swing plane limits stay in the zone; good athlete, but lacks plus speed; physical maturation process could leave speed below-average; limited range at shortstop; fielding actions can be stiff; not ideal profile for middle-of-the-diamond. Overall Future Potential: 7; all-star Explanation of Risk: High risk; excellent makeup, but lofty ceiling; still lots of developmental space between present/future. The Year Ahead: It’s hard to imagine Bogaerts taking another step forward in 2013, but it’s entirely possible. His swing is full of grace, and the power that flows from the hit tool could make him a very special player if everything goes according to plan. He still needs refinement in all phases of the game, and an extended stay in Double-A could expose some of the weaknesses in his offensive approach. While its possible that he remains at shortstop going forward, his defensive profile isn’t ideal at the position at the highest level, and as the 6’3’’ 175-lb. 20-year-old continues to grow into his body, his average-at-best speed will tick down and his range at the position will prove to be inadequate. Regardless, his bat has middle-of-the-order potential, and could make him an all-star if he reaches his ceiling. Major league ETA: 2013 with Bradley as #2 Jackie Bradley - Position: CF DOB: 04/19/1990 Height/Weight: 5’10’’ 180 lbs. Bats/Throws: L/R Drafted/Acquired: 1st round, 2011 draft, University of South Carolina (Columbia, SC) 2012 Stats: .359/.480/.526 at High-A Salem (67 games); .271/.373/.437 at Double-A Portland (61 games) The Tools: 7 all-around defensive profile; 5+ hit tool What Happened in 2012: In his first full-season, Bradley crushed in High-A, and after a promotion to Double-A, continued to show a mature approach to all phases of the game. Strengths: Special baseball instincts; plus glove; strong arm; average speed, but preternatural feel for position; moves before ball is put in play; precise routes and angles; plus-plus overall profile at premium position; advanced approach at the plate; good pitch-recognition skills; knows his pitch pocket and attacks; solid-average hit tool; tough out. Weaknesses: Lacks plus speed; relies on first-step quickness and instincts for range; game power plays below-average; most likely a down-the-lineup offensive threat. Overall Future Potential: 6; first-division player Explanation of Risk: Moderate risk; Bradley is a natural baseball player with now skills; only risk is full development of bat. The Year Ahead: Bradley isn’t long for the minors, with a glove that is ready for the bright lights. The bat isn’t special and could use more reps in the minors, but he’s a mature talent that should be ready for a major-league assignment at some point in 2013. Bradley can make every play in center, and he can do so without making it look like a big production. He has Gold Glove potential at the position, and as long as the bat can play in the average range, he’s a first-division talent. Major league ETA: 2013

sharpie Dec 03 2012 03:41 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

ESPN column: http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/87065 ... ource-says

Ashie62 Dec 03 2012 03:50 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Texas---Andrus KC- Moustakas

Frayed Knot Dec 03 2012 04:07 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

sharpie wrote: ESPN column: http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/87065 ... ource-says Selected clips from that piece: -- The Mets met with eight teams Monday about Dickey, the source said. -- He acknowledged also speaking with clubs about left-hander Jonathon Niese. -- Alderson said he would be looking for "difference-makers" in return for Dickey - "Because R.A. is a difference-maker." - not low-Class A prospects. He added that the incoming player would not necessarily have to be an outfielder or catcher, the two areas of most glaring need for the club. -- if we're going to do something -- and I want to emphasize, we may not -- if we do something, we want whatever comes back to us to have an impact on us as soon as possible." -- Alderson said a resolution with Zack Greinke as a free agent definitely could affect how much the Mets could command for Dickey in a trade. -- The Mets might give a team a window to negotiate an extension with Dickey.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 03 2012 05:42 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Jackie Bradley is like, the new Mookie.

vtmet Dec 03 2012 06:55 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

If the Mets were on the brink of success, it would make sense to hold onto Dickey...but they aren't... Mets are hurting at catcher and to a lesser degree the OF...Acquiring OF components is less difficult than acquiring a solid catcher; so if Dickey can yield us a good young catcher that can hit and perform all the duties of a catcher than I think that you have to do it...even if the fans aren't happy about it...

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 03 2012 07:00 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

vtmet wrote: If the Mets were on the brink of success, it would make sense to hold onto Dickey...but they aren't... Mets are hurting at catcher and to a lesser degree the OF...Acquiring OF components is less difficult than acquiring a solid catcher; so if Dickey can yield us a good young catcher that can hit and perform all the duties of a catcher than I think that you have to do it...even if the fans aren't happy about it... I'm all for driving a hard bargain but to the extent such players even exist most wouldn't come in a trade (Posey, Weiters). I think studly young position players are the way to go, considering how much O we'll need.

Ceetar Dec 03 2012 09:17 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

vtmet wrote: If the Mets were on the brink of success, it would make sense to hold onto Dickey...but they aren't... Got it backwards actually. If the Mets don't hold on to Dickey, they're probably not on the brink of success.

vtmet Dec 03 2012 09:28 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Ceetar wrote: vtmet wrote: If the Mets were on the brink of success, it would make sense to hold onto Dickey...but they aren't... Got it backwards actually. If the Mets don't hold on to Dickey, they're probably not on the brink of success. right but...with or without Dickey, they are a few years away from being on the brink of success so you might as well try to get a useful piece for the future that you don't already have on the farm...

Benjamin Grimm Dec 04 2012 04:51 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

I'm really starting to think that the most likely outcome to this will be a trade. There seems to be a lot of interest, and unless Sandy's asking price is simply too high for all of the suitors, I think we've seen the last of R.A. Dickey as a Met.

metirish Dec 04 2012 06:44 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

it sure is looking that way....I suppose I am a bit stunned that they are talking top of the line prospects..... did Alderson say that he wants players that can help soon? , how soon?, the players being talked about, are they ready soon?, it's a crapshoot I know ...

Ceetar Dec 04 2012 07:03 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

vtmet wrote: right but...with or without Dickey, they are a few years away from being on the brink of success That remains to be seen.

Frayed Knot Dec 04 2012 07:11 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

"metirish": "it sure is looking that way" -- It increasingly makes sense on a number of levels, doesn't it? "I suppose I am a bit stunned that they are talking top of the line prospects....." -- two months of Beltran netted a top prospect. So did Denard Span to Washington. Considering that a prospect, no matter how highly touted, is still an unknown quantity, the team getting the established player has to give up something potentially quite valuable in order to get the immediate and known help. And RA, coming off the CY year adds more than most to a club's staff and that he's signed cheaply for next season brings more teams and therefore more competition into play. "did Alderson say that he wants players that can help soon? , how soon?" -- from the Adam Rubin piece: Sandy said he [is] "looking for 'difference-makers' in return for Dickey - not low-Class A prospects - Because R.A. is a difference-maker." "the players being talked about, are they ready soon? ..." -- Keep in mind that anyone being talked about at this point is mostly media and/or fan speculation. Folks hear that 'Team X' is interested so everyone immediately goes to the list of that team's prospects and says that it'll probably take someone like [insert prospect here] off the top of that list to get Dickey especially if that prospect is seen to fit the Mets needs (which pretty much everyone short of 1Bs or 3Bs do at this point). None of this means that said player is actually being discussed by the GMs. That said, in the case of Myers from KC he probably would be ready this season. The two Boston guys seem a bit further away like maybe late 2013. Other top prospects are going to vary. 'Top' usually means the projected highest ceiling and not necessarily closest to being ready, although Sandy's vow about "not low-Class A players" indicates he's looking more for near-term help than for a project who hit big down the road but also has a higher chance of flunking out. The good thing about this remains that if he doesn't get all he wants the fallback position of simply hanging onto him for next season - extension or not - is hardly a bad one.

metirish Dec 04 2012 07:14 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Excellent, looks like a win win...... In regards to Wheeler IIRC there was another prospect form the Giants being touted by the media and initially it looked like the Mets didn't get all they could....of course Wheeler quickly dispelled that notion.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 04 2012 07:19 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Sandy was talking to Kevin Burkhardt on Mets Hot Stove last night, and he said he wants somebody who will be able to play for the Mets right away, or if not that, then very soon. Not somebody who's two years away. Sounds like he wants someone who has played at AAA and ready to play for the Mets some time in 2013.

Frayed Knot Dec 04 2012 07:29 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

metirish wrote: In regards to Wheeler IIRC there was another prospect form the Giants being touted by the media and initially it looked like the Mets didn't get all they could....of course Wheeler quickly dispelled that notion. My memory is that speedy OFer Gary Brown was the other choice being talked about. Again, not sure if that was just media/fan speculation or if he was really in the mix, but he was on the same level as Wheeler (High-A) at the time of the deal and was about as highly touted (although also more than 1-1/2 years older). The good news is that Brown seems to have stalled a bit at AA in 2012 whereas Wheeler really stepped it up and there's no question that ZW will be the higher rated prospect this winter. So at this point anyway (and assuming it was ever an either/or thing) the Mets made the right call.

Edgy MD Dec 04 2012 07:32 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

I think the Mets are on the brink of success. How precipitous that brink is, that's a question for Alderson to wrestle with. But I think his real issue is that his funds are too limited and veteran pitching too risky, not that his team is too weak to justify re-signing an all-star.

vtmet Dec 04 2012 10:55 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Did anyone catch Faith and Fear in Flushing's column today titled "The Devil and Angel in Sandy's Call"? It's a pretty hilarious take on the sign or trade RA debate... http://www.faithandfearinflushing.com/2 ... ndys-call/ a few small samples from the article: “All right, thanks Angel. If you guys wouldn’t mind, Paul and I would like to hear a little more of your respective cases. Angel, we’ll start with you this time.” “Sure, Sandy. R.A. Dickey was your best player last year and has been your most consistent pitcher for three years. Furthermore, he’s your most popular player. Never mind that tired line about ‘face of the franchise’ “Those are interesting points, Angel. Now I’d like to hear a little more from you, Devil.” “Well, Sandy, you’ve finished fourth every year you’ve had R.A. Dickey and, based on the track record, I’d say you can finish fourth without him. But your goal isn’t to finish fourth, is it? He’s never going to be better than he was last year “Those are good points, too, Devil. Based on your assessment of our organization, when do you project us as contenders?” “Oh, never. Remember, I’m the Devil. I see nothing but pain and suffering for you and your fans. But it’s my nature to want you to believe that whatever good thing you have right now can’t possibly be as good as what you might attain via trade or other acquisition. So go ahead, trade your best and most beloved player and get some minor leaguers. I’m sure Paul has glowing reports on all of them.”

Frayed Knot Dec 05 2012 06:52 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Time for your daily Dickey [insert FMan joke here] courtesy of Joel Sherman this morning: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/voi ... dYVab0CFsI Tidbits: - The Mets have told R.A. Dickey what they are willing to do in a contract extension [and] they have told teams interested in acquiring Dickey the types of players — notice the plural — necessary to obtain him. Neither the Dickey camp nor another club has yet to go to the level established by the Mets. First one that does wins. - One outside executive aware of [the Mets'] requests said, “The price is through the roof. He’s good, but he’s a 38-year-old knuckleballer. What is his shelf life? ... I would take him, but for top prospects, no.” - the Mets have done some groundwork by meeting with Long Beach native John Lannan’s reps. - For now, multiple Mets officials have described to me essentially a 55-45 percent likelihood that Dickey stays.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 05 2012 07:36 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Pure speculation here, but now that Wright's in the fold we might have less use for Wilmer Flores down the road, so if it's the loss of as prospect that scares Dickey folks, maybe we can include something else. We also seemingly have enough good young arms to sweeten the pot without robbing our depth too badly. So I'm thinking, maybe, Dickey AND Flores for Wil Myers and another KC outfielder. Or Dickey AND Familia for Jackie Bradley Jr. + etc etc

smg58 Dec 05 2012 10:13 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

The latest report is that Dickey would sign for 2 years and $26M. If that is indeed the price, there is no sensible reason to say no.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 05 2012 10:28 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Well, the fact that we need outfielders pretty badly remains whether or not they can pay him. I'm convinced by now if it's not Dickey than it's Niese who gets shipped out, I'm not sure I'd be happy with that either. Harvey? How do you get an outfielder?

metsmarathon Dec 05 2012 10:50 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

dickey for reyes is a terrible idea. simply terrible. there's no way i want any part of that reyes contract, as much as i would love to have him back. especially not at the cost of an underpaid cy young award winner, and an underpaid up and coming young shortstop.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 05 2012 11:05 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Doesn't really solve any problems.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 05 2012 11:14 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

And it would be deadly on the back-end. Isn't Reyes due to get $22 million in 2017?

Ceetar Dec 05 2012 11:31 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Well, the fact that we need outfielders pretty badly remains whether or not they can pay him. I'm convinced by now if it's not Dickey than it's Niese who gets shipped out, I'm not sure I'd be happy with that either. Harvey? How do you get an outfielder? buy one or two? trade for one or two with prospects? Both seem like possibilities and maybe better ones.

A Boy Named Seo Dec 05 2012 11:31 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

smg58 wrote: The latest report is that Dickey would sign for 2 years and $26M. If that is indeed the price, there is no sensible reason to say no. Martino sez the Mets are balking at that seemingly reasonable (to me) figure, so they gotta be shopping him pretty hard, looking for young studs to lead their 2k14 championship run. Unless there's a no-trade, would that extension help/hurt a team pursuing RA? Are there rules in MLB preventing a team from trading a guy who just signed an extension? They do that shit all the time in the NBA. If I'm the Royals and I'm shopping Myers for an 'available' stud SP, my choices in this order are James Shields then Dickey. I wouldn't come near Jon Lester.

metsmarathon Dec 05 2012 11:38 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

smg58 wrote: The latest report is that Dickey would sign for 2 years and $26M. If that is indeed the price, there is no sensible reason to say no. if that's the price, and especially if he's still only going to cost $5M next year, i'd jump on that like a sugar-addled suburbanite kid on a backyard trampoline

Ceetar Dec 05 2012 11:46 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

metsmarathon wrote: smg58 wrote: The latest report is that Dickey would sign for 2 years and $26M. If that is indeed the price, there is no sensible reason to say no. if that's the price, and especially if he's still only going to cost $5M next year, i'd jump on that like a sugar-addled suburbanite kid on a backyard trampoline I'm not buying any rumors on amounts. this is the high-rumor season after all. We've heard 2/26, 3/39. we've heard they're not talking, and we've heard that they agree on years but not $/year. Perhaps the Mets want a 2/26 extension and Dickey wants a 3/39 offer to start this year.

duan Dec 05 2012 12:20 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

The latest report is that Dickey would sign for 2 years and $26M. If that is indeed the price, there is no sensible reason to say no. if that's the price, and especially if he's still only going to cost $5M next year, i'd jump on that like a sugar-addled suburbanite kid on a backyard trampoline The $5 million is the bit that I haven't seen actually stated. If it's seeking a 3 year deal for $31 million (ie: next year's 5, plus another 2 years @ 13 each) that's one thing. If it's next year and 2014 for $26 million, that's another. In all honesty, if you told me you'd get him to sign an extension which gives you him for 3 more years @ less then Andy Pettite is getting for this year I'd have think you'd do it unless you were given a great deal of prospects in return. However, RA is probably more motivated to get an extension done then the Mets are. To some degree he REALLY needs to get one done. He's still only an injury away from retiring with only $5 million guaranteed & a 38 this is definitely his best time to try and secure his future. That means two things, he needs to get as much as he can, but he also needs to do it. To some degree I think the mets are happy to wait him out a little bit and if it was my money I'd probably play the hand in the same way.

Ceetar Dec 05 2012 12:29 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

duan wrote: To some degree I think the mets are happy to wait him out a little bit and if it was my money I'd probably play the hand in the same way. Well, they're apparently looking for a steal of a deal, also gauging interest. They can get the money down a bit on an extension if they come back and say "look, these teams don't seem to value you _that_ much, and after another year older it's unlikely you'll get anything close to this. come down a bit."

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 05 2012 12:40 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Ceetar wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Well, the fact that we need outfielders pretty badly remains whether or not they can pay him. I'm convinced by now if it's not Dickey than it's Niese who gets shipped out, I'm not sure I'd be happy with that either. Harvey? How do you get an outfielder? buy one or two? trade for one or two with prospects? Both seem like possibilities and maybe better ones. Bah. They don't have the scratch to buy one, particularly if they keep Dickey around. I'm OK with the prospect trade but I don't think there's a Wil Myers type prospect in the system but for Wheeler.

Ceetar Dec 05 2012 12:44 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Well, the fact that we need outfielders pretty badly remains whether or not they can pay him. I'm convinced by now if it's not Dickey than it's Niese who gets shipped out, I'm not sure I'd be happy with that either. Harvey? How do you get an outfielder? buy one or two? trade for one or two with prospects? Both seem like possibilities and maybe better ones. Bah. They don't have the scratch to buy one, particularly if they keep Dickey around. I'm OK with the prospect trade but I don't think there's a Wil Myers type prospect in the system but for Wheeler. They've deferred a bunch of Bay and Wright's money. Seems silly to do that if you don't plan on spending it.

metsmarathon Dec 05 2012 01:05 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

unless you don't expect to have it in the first place, of course.

Ceetar Dec 05 2012 01:13 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

metsmarathon wrote: unless you don't expect to have it in the first place, of course. not that we should take much of anything GM/execs say as anything but words that form sentences, it doesn't jive with what they've hinted/said the payroll will be. They're only committed to about $75 mill or so at this point in 2013.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 06 2012 06:49 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Andy Martino, in this morning's Daily News, says that the Mets are "sitting on at least one acceptable deal" for Dickey. No further details.

Ceetar Dec 06 2012 06:56 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Andy Martino, in this morning's Daily News, says that the Mets are "sitting on at least one acceptable deal" for Dickey. No further details. continuing to over-analyze rumors, I'll guess 'acceptable' means they'd actually prefer keeping Dickey than trading him, are hoping to use the 'value' from the trade to adjust the extension offer Dickey accepts. Or just holding out for something better. Or have a trade/signing in the works that might negate the need for the Dickey trade. Or they're working on said trade to turn back to the Dickey traders to say "We're prepared to make this other deal. sweeten the pot."

Frayed Knot Dec 06 2012 07:03 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Andy Martino, in this morning's Daily News, says that the Mets are "sitting on at least one acceptable deal" for Dickey. No further details. So, taking that at face value while also assuming there are no other potential deals, the inevitable step is to go to Dickey and tell him that you've got a move that you like so either he signs for X or they'll pull the trigger and move him. Of course there are a number of different ways to interpret Martino's line: - "acceptable" can be read as "only OK" and they'd prefer to keep him so long as his demands aren't totally outrageous - that they're bullshitting but want this story out there so that RAD feels pressured to sign for their number/length - that they'll continue to shop for better offers because there's really no hard deadline on this thing - that Dickey's camp knows the specifics of the offer (is anything a complete secret in winter meetings?) and are willing to call the team's bluff that they'll actually do it and so on

Ceetar Dec 06 2012 07:07 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Frayed Knot wrote: (is anything a complete secret in winter meetings?) You can probably sneak some stuff through in all the noise. Like how the Mets are maybe rumored to be looking at an outfielder (well, duh) but you don't really get any names and anytime anyone asks Alderson talks about Hairston.

Frayed Knot Dec 06 2012 07:13 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Well, we, and even reporters, certainly don't know/hear everything. But it's safe to assume that insiders make it their business to know what going on on the inside; in this case meaning Dickey's agent probably has some idea of the who, the what, the if, and the odds of any potential deal involving his #1 (and possibly only) client and so wouldn't be flying totally blind if/when the Mets came to him with a take-it-or-leave-it offer.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 06 2012 03:14 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

More from Andy Martino. It seems like one of the Mets better options is Texas, and the player they'd get is a... third baseman? Andy Martino wrote: If the current stalemate between the Mets and R.A. Dickey leads to divorce, the Texas Rangers are one of the strongest candidates to land the Cy Young Award-winner in a trade. Toronto, Baltimore and the Dodgers are also real possibilities, according to major league executives with direct knowledge of the process; the Yankees, who have also shown interest in the pitcher, are not. In an extremely fluid situation, the Mets were said to like Toronto catching prospect Travis D’Arnaud, and Texas third baseman Mike Olt as major pieces in potential deals. The Mets met on Monday with Toronto brass, but talks stalled and appeared dead. Then, Sandy Alderson and Jays GM Alex Anthopoulos resumed discussions on Wednesday, although they still had no deal. "Alex would rather move (catcher J.P.) Arencibia than D'Arnaud, but that could change," said a person briefed on Toronto's thinking. A different major league executive said that Texas would be willing to part with Olt in the right deal, especially if the Rangers are unable to sign free agent starter Zack Greinke. As for Baltimore, a league source said that they liked Dickey, but were not close to finding a match in a trade. All through the week, the rival executives maintained that the Mets’ asking price for Dickey was extremely high. "It should be," said one Mets person. "He won the Cy Young." Kansas City, which balked earlier this week at the notion of trading top outfield prospect Wil Myers for Dickey, left the meetings "definitely not in on Dickey," according to a National League executive briefed on the situation. Additionally, a Mets source told the Daily News on Thursday that the Yankees and Nationals were early suitors for Dickey at the winter meetings. "Washington liked Dickey a lot, and so did the Yankees," the source said, while stressing that talks did not progress, and a deal with either club would not happen. After general manager Sandy Alderson determined that he did not want to trade Dickey to a National League East rival, the Nats signed starter Dan Haren. The Yankees, who attempted last winter to trade for Jon Niese, did not have prospects that fit the Mets' needs, and talks stalled. Despite all of those trade discussions, the Mets are far from ruling out keeping Dickey on a contract extension. The winter meetings ended with the sides far apart on the dollar value of a two-year deal, and the Mets' current offer was well below Dickey's initial asking price of approximately two years, $26 million, plus the pre-existing $5 million club option. The Mets will not meet that price, according to sources. Before leaving Nashville, Alderson indicated that he did not receive an offer for a trade worth making. "We haven't made a trade," the GM said. "You can read into that what you like." "Things are moving forward on two tracks," he added. "While we are waiting for a better trade offer, we are still exploring bringing R.A. back." Alderson reiterated what chief operating officer Jeff Wilpon has said several times, that the Mets were open to retaining Dickey for next year without signing him to an extension. "I don't think its necessarily the optimum result, but it's a possible result," Alderson said. "If that's the one that ultimately transpires, then we'll be happy with that."

Frayed Knot Dec 06 2012 03:28 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Both Olt & D'Arnaud are major prospects, probably will be along with Myers from KC in the top dozen in the whole circuit this winter. Olt should be young enough and athletic enough to play elsewhere on the diamond which of course he'd have to if we got him.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 06 2012 03:43 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

I just looked up Mike Olt. He's played the great majority of his games at third base, but he has appeared in a few games at first base and right field.

Frayed Knot Dec 06 2012 05:30 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

The reports on Olt's defense at 3B are excellent but the reports on his overall athleticism are as well and I think, should this rumored proposal come true, it would be a no-brainer to stick him in RF even if his speed and arm play no better than mediocre out there. If the projections of his bat are accurate his offense shouldn't be a liability anywhere, and if they're not then, well then we're in trouble anyway. Worst thing that happens otherwise is that he shifts in to 3B in a few years when Wright gets moved across the diamond.

Ashie62 Dec 06 2012 06:17 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

I thought Olt was insurance against Hamilton leaving. I would be happy with Elvis Andrus....

Edgy MD Dec 07 2012 09:30 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Klapisch and others are pushing the Mets to move the D for big league shortstop Dee Gordon and AA righty Zach Lee. I'm leery. Gordon cooked up a great big pot of Regresso Sauce last year, and brings less slugging to the table than Ruben Tejada, as hard as that might be to believe. Baseball America has bumped Lee from #89 (Pre-2011) to #62 (Pre-2012) to #49 (Mid-2012). I can't find a post-season rating but I think he's inching into the top 30. But he's one of those that keeps climbing prospect lists despite the performances staying modest.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 07 2012 09:34 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Yeah, but how great would it be to have Dee and Lee join Gee on the Mets? I saw some speculation that the Mets would get Gordon and Lee as part of a three-way deal, where they'd flip the them to some other team for that one "difference maker". I suppose it's one of very many possibilities.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 07 2012 09:37 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Gordon's one of those little insects who has almost no power at all, looks to me like a backup already. Tejada is already better. And blah blah never enough pitching blah blah, the reason to flip Dickey is for offense that can help now, not minor league pitching depth.

A Boy Named Seo Dec 07 2012 09:56 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Dee Gordon is exactly the guy I want leading off and playing shortstop if it's 1983.

Mets – Willets Point Dec 07 2012 10:00 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Isn't that the guy from Twisted Sister?

Frayed Knot Dec 07 2012 10:02 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Mets – Willets Point wrote: Isn't that the guy from Twisted Sister? Only if we give him ABNS's haircut.

A Boy Named Seo Dec 07 2012 10:16 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

No, Dee Gordon is what would happen if Twisted Sister was playing the state fairgrounds on one end of town, and Sonic Youth was playing a relevant dive bar on the other side of town, and both bands ended up eating at the same Denny's after, and Kim Gordon and Dee Snider mades eyes from across the room and they ended up meeting in the bathroom a making a lil baby in a brief moment of passion. Except the baby's black.

Frayed Knot Dec 07 2012 10:20 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Of all the proposed (made up?) prospects in Dickey deals, I like the idea of Dee & Lee the least. As was said above, you've got a 1970's-ish SS on the one hand. And then not only are pitching prospects notoriously tougher to project, but we also need pitching the least. Give me power (particularly in the OF) and/or a good catcher. Neither of these two fit my idea of the "impact players" Sandy says he wants.

Edgy MD Dec 07 2012 10:24 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Gordon's one of those little insects who has almost no power at all, looks to me like a backup already. Tejada is already better. And blah blah never enough pitching blah blah, the reason to flip Dickey is for offense that can help now, not minor league pitching depth. Yeah, I'm pretty much there. Or at least as close to there as I can be without offending Bucket with my odor or any sexual tension. Lee was a two-sport star with Citadel provenance. Maybe he's knocking the scouts out in part because he cuts such an impressive athletic figure. These guys, whoever they are, rank him as the 23rd best pitching prospect in the minors. Righthanders from Texas always make folks drool. Klapisch recommended jumping at this deal in the midst of saying the Mets did right by signing David. Obviously, his job isn't going well unless the Mets do wrong.

Edgy MD Dec 07 2012 10:26 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

A Boy Named Seo wrote: No, Dee Gordon is what would happen if Twisted Sister was playing the state fairgrounds on one end of town, and Sonic Youth was playing a relevant dive bar on the other side of town, and both bands ended up eating at the same Denny's after, and Kim Gordon and Dee Snider mades eyes from across the room and they ended up meeting in the bathroom a making a lil baby in a brief moment of passion. Except the baby's black. If this was a script treatment, tell me that three or four studios wouldn't pay good money for the option.

Mets – Willets Point Dec 07 2012 10:35 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Edgy MD wrote: A Boy Named Seo wrote: No, Dee Gordon is what would happen if Twisted Sister was playing the state fairgrounds on one end of town, and Sonic Youth was playing a relevant dive bar on the other side of town, and both bands ended up eating at the same Denny's after, and Kim Gordon and Dee Snider mades eyes from across the room and they ended up meeting in the bathroom a making a lil baby in a brief moment of passion. Except the baby's black. If this was a script treatment, tell me that three or four studios wouldn't pay good money for the option. Seriously, I'd back that project. Take my money!

Fman99 Dec 07 2012 10:55 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

A Boy Named Seo wrote: No, Dee Gordon is what would happen if Twisted Sister was playing the state fairgrounds on one end of town, and Sonic Youth was playing a relevant dive bar on the other side of town, and both bands ended up eating at the same Denny's after, and Kim Gordon and Dee Snider mades eyes from across the room and they ended up meeting in the bathroom a making a lil baby in a brief moment of passion. Except the baby's black. I still think we can orchestrate this somehow. I'll bring the AstroGlide™.

Ashie62 Dec 07 2012 07:37 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

I'll stick with youngish AS Elvis Andrus. With Profar they ought to do that.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 09 2012 01:37 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Andy Martino wrote: Sources: Texas expressed willingness to Mets to move Olt for Dickey. BUT I'm told it will take more than just Olt for Mets to move Dickey. Jon Heyman wrote: at least #bluejays along w/ #rangers involved in RA Dickey talks. toronto thought unlikely to trade D'Arnaud. gose maybe

Frayed Knot Dec 09 2012 05:21 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Jon Heyman wrote: at least #bluejays along w/ #rangers involved in RA Dickey talks. toronto thought unlikely to trade D'Arnaud. gose maybe That would be Anthony Gose - a speedy OFer originally drafted by the Phillies (2nd round, 2008) but already in his 3rd organization even though not 23 until next August. He was sent to Houston in the Roy Oswalt trade and then on to Toronto for Brett Wallace. He got some ML time with the Jays in late 2012. I'd want more than him for Dickey.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 15 2012 06:08 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Looks like it's gonna happen for D'Arnaud + (I guess the question is what's the +?). Jays already did 12-player deal this year. Post's Ken Davidoff in the meantime with a mouthful here: And, in an underappreciated part of this saga that soared into visibility this week, Dickey can be a handful. He clearly has enjoyed his rise from the ashes into a Flushing folk hero, and while he deserves praise and riches, there’s also the matter of him having to coexist peacefully in a workplace. His gift for self-promotion and his love of attention don’t endear himself to most teammates. Instead, his durability and outstanding results led him to be appreciated but far from beloved. If Dickey can’t control his verbiage at a holiday party — “Folks, not today, not with the kids here” was all he had to say to reporters — then how would a full season of uncertainty feel? How many times would Dickey spout off publicly? Or work behind the scenes to make the Mets look bad and boost his own brand?

bmfc1 Dec 15 2012 06:24 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Apparently all Mets should spout vapid, cliched replies like David Wright, or be as dull as Jon Niese. What a shame the Mets have something unusual: a baseball player that is interesting and well-spoken. Let's have more Lucas Duda's instead! This is Mets management speaking evil about a Met, a beloved Met, that has been on the cover of [u:2f6dkdyi]Sports Illustrated[/u:2f6dkdyi] twice this year--how does that happen for a lousy, perennial fourth place team?--someone that made me proud to be a Mets fan. Perhaps the bounty that Alderson gets for him will pay off one day and we'll look back at this trade as a turning point. I hope so but today, I don't care. The Mets are about to trade the player that gave me goosebumps.

G-Fafif Dec 15 2012 06:46 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Davidoff with the good, old-fashioned hit job. I'll take the baseball doubts about age, track record, risk, et al as legitimate factors, but the dark personality stuff? To quote one of my favorite comics, "Who cares?" If that's what it takes to win, then let every Met get a little self-absorption going and direct it as Dickey has. All smoke and mirrors. They don't want to pay him. Yeah, get the best package you can for him if that's the ultimate outcome. But the "oh, you know, he was an awful human being" smear job to win people over to their side is wholly unnecessary. Dick Young wrote the same heaping pile about another Cy Young winner in 1977.

Valadius Dec 15 2012 06:55 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

I've taken a spin through Blue Jay-land. They weren't happy when it looked like they would have to only give up Arencibia and Gose. D'Arnaud and Gose has them practically shaking with rage. They still haven't gotten over losing Halladay, it seems.

bmfc1 Dec 15 2012 07:03 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

G-Fafif: "Who cares?" indeed.

Ceetar Dec 15 2012 07:15 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Valadius wrote: I've taken a spin through Blue Jay-land. They weren't happy when it looked like they would have to only give up Arencibia and Gose. D'Arnaud and Gose has them practically shaking with rage. They still haven't gotten over losing Halladay, it seems. yeah, but then they'll get to watch Dickey pitch and get over it real fast.

Swan Swan H Dec 15 2012 07:27 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

I don't necessarily disagree with the Jays perspective, obtaining Dickey and going for it in 2013, but if the parameters of the deal we keep hearing (Dickey for d'Arnaud and Gose) are true I think the Mets would be wrong to pass this up. I've been trying to find someone with something negative to say about d'Arnaud, and I'm sure someone could, but I'm having no luck. What I did find is this: Rated Best Hitter for Average in the Toronto Blue Jays system after the 2011 season Rated Best Power Hitter in the Toronto Blue Jays system after the 2011 season Rated Best Hitter for Average in the Toronto Blue Jays system after the 2012 season Rated Best Power Hitter in the Toronto Blue Jays system after the 2012 season Rated Best Defensive Catcher in the Florida State League in 2010 Rated Best Defensive Catcher in the Eastern League in 2011

Frayed Knot Dec 15 2012 07:30 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

If at least some people on both sides aren't a bit pissed off about it then it probably isn't a fair trade.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 15 2012 07:44 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Swan Swan H wrote: I don't necessarily disagree with the Jays perspective, obtaining Dickey and going for it in 2013, but if the parameters of the deal we keep hearing (Dickey for d'Arnaud and Gose) are true I think the Mets would be wrong to pass this up. I agree.

metirish Dec 15 2012 07:51 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Swan Swan H wrote: I don't necessarily disagree with the Jays perspective, obtaining Dickey and going for it in 2013, but if the parameters of the deal we keep hearing (Dickey for d'Arnaud and Gose) are true I think the Mets would be wrong to pass this up. I agree. agree too......sad to see him go but ...... hate to see the negative stuff there on him.....it's not at all surprising though.

Swan Swan H Dec 15 2012 08:04 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Is this a sign that writers think the Mets are returning to relevance? Slamming players to curry favor with management? I guess we'll know for sure when Medgal writes a puff piece about the Wilpons.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 15 2012 08:16 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Hey look, we all love Dickey but is it so difficult to believe his constant self promotion wouldn't be a bit of an issue with teammates? The degree to which it matters can be debated but this is Requesting Attention Dickey were talking about.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 15 2012 08:21 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

I get it. I just wish some of these bitching teammates were as good about self-promotion-- like, say, putting their name in the paper-- when slagging a guy who's on the way out, with a Cy Young in his wake.

Swan Swan H Dec 15 2012 09:49 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Sherman now saying that Gose is not part of the deal. Still waiting to hear from Peabody.

Nymr83 Dec 15 2012 12:09 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

The Mets are a non-contender. If they can trade a 38 year old with a two year track-record of pitching well for a prospect the caliber of d'Arnaud I think that's a deal that has to be made. I hate to see Dickey go, but would I rather see him pitch well here for another non-playoff year? I think I'd rather see a good catcher behind the plate 5 years from now catching Wheeler and Harvey.

Ashie62 Dec 15 2012 12:24 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Swan Swan H wrote: Sherman now saying that Gose is not part of the deal. Still waiting to hear from Peabody. Good! Gose had 59k's in 189 AB with no power

Swan Swan H Dec 15 2012 01:41 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Rubin tweeted that one iteration of this deal had Thole going north and John Buck and a 19 year old pitcher named Noah Syndergaard coming back. May still be the case.

Ashie62 Dec 15 2012 02:00 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

I saw a tweet on Rotoworld from Jeff Passan that this may be morphing into a multiplayer trade on both sides. If Thole goes wouldn't Arencibia have to be the C coming back? D'Arnaud is not 2013 ready with that knee I think.

Edgy MD Dec 15 2012 02:04 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

The Mets management spoke evil about Dickey?

RealityChuck Dec 15 2012 02:07 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

D'Arnaud is the big catch, but he won't catch for the Mets until at least midseason. Current rumors have Thole going to replace him; that leave the Mets with Mike Nickeas and whatever sub-.200 catcher still available as a free agent. Is Hobie Landrith still available? Because without a catcher, you're likely to have a lot of passed balls.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 15 2012 02:13 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Davidoff with the good, old-fashioned hit job. I'll take the baseball doubts about age, track record, risk, et al as legitimate factors, but the dark personality stuff? To quote one of my favorite comics, "Who cares?" If that's what it takes to win, then let every Met get a little self-absorption going and direct it as Dickey has. All smoke and mirrors. They don't want to pay him. Yeah, get the best package you can for him if that's the ultimate outcome. But the "oh, you know, he was an awful human being" smear job to win people over to their side is wholly unnecessary. Dick Young wrote the same heaping pile about another Cy Young winner in 1977. And Sam Page just drank said hacker's sad fucking milkshake here. The hell? How did we go from promoting the Mets as a contrast to the Yankees who made a decision based on a player's likability to this crap about Justin Turner being miffed he didn't get a chapter in Dickey's book? I hate to shatter anyone's illusions, but R.A. Dickey is an entertainer with a very entertaining story. Yea, he wrote a book and he did the things that most entertainers with memoirs do to promote them. And you know who was more than happy to promote Dickey's story up until today? Ken Davidoff and his colleagues. R.A. Dickey's story was profitable for both the New York media and R.A. Dickey for a long while, but now I guess it only suits one of them, so out you go... Our concern now is that that R.A. Dickey — nearly the only person or thing of any positive association with the Mets — is going to sabotage their brand? Memo to Mets Public Relations: Don't allow R.A. Dickey's heartwarming story of redemption and perseverance to sabotage your personal brand, which — as far as I can tell — is currently, "White-collar criminals mismanaging the public's money in order to destroy a cherished cultural institution."

Frayed Knot Dec 15 2012 02:18 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

RealityChuck wrote: D'Arnaud is the big catch, but he won't catch for the Mets until at least midseason. What is your source for this?

Frayed Knot Dec 15 2012 02:25 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Thumbnail sketches of D'Arnaud & the recently mentioned Syndergaard from John Sickels' site. He rates them one-two among TBJ prospects - although Syndergaard probably jumped up a spot or three due to Gose's late season promotion and the prospect package sent to Miami for their starting roster. 1) Travis D'Arnaud, C, Grade A-: Borderline B+. He's not perfect, but D'Arnaud is either the best catching prospect in baseball or the second-best behind Mike Zunino. Could use a bit more polish with his throwing and his plate discipline, but overall he's the complete package. 2) Noah Syndergaard, RHP, Grade A-: Borderline B+. I love him. Strong sinking fastball, good changeup, breaking stuff coming around, solid command, good body, good makeup, strong sabermetric profile. Just needs to stay healthy. Syndergaard turned 20 in August and was the 39th pick overall in 2010 out of a Texas high school. He pitched at low-A this past season so figure him probably for St Lucie in 2013 if this goes through.

RealityChuck Dec 15 2012 02:26 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

His career path. Most articles I've seen indicate he's not quite ready to jump to the majors, since his year in AAA was cut short.

Swan Swan H Dec 15 2012 02:29 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

RealityChuck wrote: D'Arnaud is the big catch, but he won't catch for the Mets until at least midseason. Current rumors have Thole going to replace him; that leave the Mets with Mike Nickeas and whatever sub-.200 catcher still available as a free agent. Is Hobie Landrith still available? Because without a catcher, you're likely to have a lot of passed balls. John Buck was reported to be in the deal.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 15 2012 02:30 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Correct, Monk-- the most current offer, as per Mike Puma: Dickey, Thole, Player X for D'Arnaud, Buck, Syndegaard and Player Y. Collins is apparently lobbying Sandy for Gose's inclusion, but that-- to Puma eyes-- looks unlikely. D'Arnaud did injure his PCL last June, keeping him out until almost the end of the AAA season.

Ashie62 Dec 15 2012 02:43 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Probably none? Speculation based on fairly recent ACL Surgery I assume.

Frayed Knot Dec 15 2012 02:48 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: D'Arnaud did injure his PCL last June, keeping him out until almost the end of the AAA season. Right, but also avoided surgery and only missed the remainder of the season because it was already closing in on end of the season. If he's not on the opening day roster through choice that's one thing, although he has had almost 800 PAs in the upper (AA + AAA) minors at this point. I thought the implication was that the injury would keep him out.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 15 2012 03:13 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

If the trade is as reported, the Opening Day starting slot would appear to be up for grabs between the youngster and Mr. Likes to F*ck.

MFS62 Dec 15 2012 04:41 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Eddie Coleman told Steve Somers that the deal might not be completed until tomorrow (Sunday) - a lot of moving pieces. Ed said he spoke to Thole and Josh said he has not been told about the deal (as in, he might be included). Later

Swan Swan H Dec 15 2012 08:04 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Correct, Monk-- the most current offer, as per Mike Puma: Dickey, Thole, Player X for D'Arnaud, Buck, Syndegaard and Player Y. . As of a few minutes ago Sherman is still reporting that this is the deal, with the qualifiers that Players X and Y are non-elite prospects and a few bucks may be heading south to cover Buck's salary.

Mets – Willets Point Dec 15 2012 08:12 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

This isn't for real is it? The Mets are not really shipping off the Cy Young Award winner? Everyone on Twitter makes it sound like it's a done deal.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 15 2012 10:10 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Part of it's that it appears to be more or less a done deal, but... well... I think I'm starting to come around on this (mandatory Really Awful mourning process aside).

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 15 2012 10:30 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

I'd like it more if it came with an outfielder.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 15 2012 10:46 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Given who they had/were apparently willing to give up, I think I'd rather have Syndergaard than Gose (in Den Dekker and Kirk, we've got two of that, no?).

Swan Swan H Dec 16 2012 06:30 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Agree with LWFS - Syndergaard (isn't that the screen you put up in front of the fireplace?) makes much more sense than Gose. Some perspectives from the baseball pundits: Buster Olney ?@Buster_ESPN The broad perception in the industry is that if the Mets pull this discussed Dickey deal for d'Arnaud, it's an incredible trade for them. Buster Olney ?@Buster_ESPN Evaluators around MLB are beyond shocked TOR is talking about trading Travis d'Arnaud for a player with one year on his contract, Dickey. Jon Heyman ?@JonHeymanCBS rivals love d'arnaud/syndergaard combo for mets. not crazy tho. value sky-high for top SPs. $147M for zack, $80M for anibal Adam Rubin ?@AdamRubinESPN Still sources were adamant predicting for 2 weeks Dickey would return because they didn't figure they'd get overwhelmed. Looks like they did

Ashie62 Dec 16 2012 08:57 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

My only caveat is he missed time in 2010 with two bulging discs and this would be his third organization.

Swan Swan H Dec 16 2012 09:32 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Fair point on the back issue, but he will, if this happens, be the centerpiece of two deals for Cy Young winners. If anything that expresses value to me, not concern.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 16 2012 10:48 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Given who they had/were apparently willing to give up, I think I'd rather have Syndergaard than Gose (in Den Dekker and Kirk, we've got two of that, no?). Perhaps then the right idea is to use our growing collection of good young arms for an outfielder.

RealityChuck Dec 16 2012 11:25 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Frayed Knot wrote: LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: D'Arnaud did injure his PCL last June, keeping him out until almost the end of the AAA season. Right, but also avoided surgery and only missed the remainder of the season because it was already closing in on end of the season. If he's not on the opening day roster through choice that's one thing, although he has had almost 800 PAs in the upper (AA + AAA) minors at this point. I thought the implication was that the injury would keep him out. I saw that they get to control him an extra year if they wait until June to bring him up. The Mets always rush prospects. It'd be better if they start out D'Artagnan in the minors and bring him up later.

Edgy MD Dec 16 2012 11:35 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

I think the notion that the Mets rush their prospects if overstated, and most of the evidence supporting it is left over from the Minaya/Bernazard era.

Swan Swan H Dec 16 2012 11:49 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

The deal is agreed to in principle. Toronto now has 72 hours to agree to an extension with Dickey.

Ashie62 Dec 16 2012 11:53 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Dickey don't be a dick, don't be a fool with your li-fe....

Swan Swan H Dec 16 2012 11:55 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Ashie62 wrote: Dickey don't be a dick, don't be a fool with your li-fe.... Wow. Bo Donaldson. If he went to the Cubs or White Sox would we have gotten a little Paper Lace?

Ashie62 Dec 16 2012 12:00 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

John Buck's stats remind me of Arencibia, nice pop but Mendoza worthy.

attgig Dec 16 2012 12:21 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

so, who's the minor leaguer we're sending?

Frayed Knot Dec 16 2012 12:25 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Swan Swan H wrote: The deal is agreed to in principle. Toronto now has 72 hours to agree to an extension with Dickey. Innuresting development in that Dickey has previously claimed he has no interest in pre-agreeing to an extension during such a small window so close to his one and only shot at true FA-gency. So if Toronto is serious about this no-extension/no-trade policy, and Dickey sticks to his previous vow and/or simply asks for such a high number that it effectively becomes the same thing, this whole thing could fall apart rather quickly.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 16 2012 12:27 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

It's being reported that the deadline is 2 p.m. Tuesday, which is just about 48 hours from now. I wonder if the clock starting ticking yesterday afternoon, but we're just hearing about it now?

Frayed Knot Dec 16 2012 12:28 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

attgig wrote: so, who's the minor leaguer we're sending? Assuming this turns out to be the rumored 4-for-3 structure being talked out, neither "extra" player has been named although they've been described as less substantial prospects.

MFS62 Dec 16 2012 02:09 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Entire civilizations have come and gone in less time than these negotiations have taken. Later

Edgy MD Dec 16 2012 02:25 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Frayed Knot wrote: Swan Swan H wrote: The deal is agreed to in principle. Toronto now has 72 hours to agree to an extension with Dickey. Innuresting development in that Dickey has previously claimed he has no interest in pre-agreeing to an extension during such a small window so close to his one and only shot at true FA-gency. So if Toronto is serious about this no-extension/no-trade policy, and Dickey sticks to his previous vow and/or simply asks for such a high number that it effectively becomes the same thing, this whole thing could fall apart rather quickly. Really? I mean, do that ever happen? It seems to me that virtually every time a guy is traded to a team with a the contingency clause over a window to negotiate an extension, a contract is eventally consummated. I imagine that the trade doesn't even begin unless some figures have been bandied through a third party (such as the trading team) to ensure that the acquiring team and the player are in the same neighborhood. Even if the extension doesn't come down in the window, I'd bet the deal would tend to go through anyhow, with the package sent for the un-signed player perhaps reduced.

Frayed Knot Dec 16 2012 02:31 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

RealityChuck wrote: I saw that they get to control him an extra year if they wait until June to bring him up. Well, EVERY player gets his eventual FA target date pushed back a year if he falls short of the full six years of service time. It's not June though, just long enough that this year won't qualify as a full season and, six years hence, would only have 5+ years in the bigs and therefore have to wait one more season. The arbitration date --the one that determines whether he'd be arb-eligible after 2015 instead of 2016-- is closer to late-May/early June but it depends on a number of other factors. ... but we're getting a little ahead of ourselves here.

Frayed Knot Dec 16 2012 02:39 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Edgy MD wrote: Really? I mean, do that ever happen? I'm sure it has happened, although probably not often, and if the deal has gotten this far I suspect it will get done. But if Dickey is determined to stick to his earlier vow, or if the Jays don't go as high as what he hopes (he could have stayed here and avoided all this mess if he were willing to sign for less than he wanted) then things still could collapse as word out of Toronto's camp is that they're reluctant to give up D'Arnaud for a pitcher w/only one year of control, even if it's a CY winner with a (relatively) low salary.

Nymr83 Dec 16 2012 02:40 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

what happens now if Dickey can't come to a deal with the Blue Jays? you'd have to think things have soured too much in NY already. Do the Mets take what they can get for 1 year of Dickey? I dont know what that is but its probably not d'Arnaud.

Swan Swan H Dec 16 2012 03:21 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

If they can't agree on a contract extension the Mets will replace Dickey with a different 38 year-old right-handed knuckleball-throwing book-writing bearded Kilimanjaro-climbing euphemistically-named Cy Young winner.

Kong76 Dec 16 2012 03:29 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

This team just makes me physically ill sometimes. Maybe it's the coverage of it on all levels. Seems like there's always something or wrinkle or a fold or a twat or a ....

Ashie62 Dec 16 2012 03:58 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

If Dickey doesn't sign he kinda becomes a man without a team. He strikes me as a guy who could become very angry obstinate here having been painted as a villian and all. Anyone seen John Franco the last couple days?

RealityChuck Dec 16 2012 04:21 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Edgy MD wrote: I think the notion that the Mets rush their prospects if overstated, and most of the evidence supporting it is left over from the Minaya/Bernazard era. Matt Harvey. Only twenty games in AAA.

Ceetar Dec 16 2012 04:28 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

RealityChuck wrote: Edgy MD wrote: I think the notion that the Mets rush their prospects if overstated, and most of the evidence supporting it is left over from the Minaya/Bernazard era. Matt Harvey. Only twenty games in AAA. Harvey pretty met the stated plan of innings though. 20 games isn't nothing. I think the Minaya/Bernazard rushing thing is overstated too. They specifically put in the work to evaluate players and fast track guys they felt could handle it. It's so hard to ultimately decide if a guy was rushed and ruined because of it or overexposed, etc. Would Pelfrey have developed quality secondary stuff if he'd had another year in the minors? probably not. After all, he's shown to be a guy willing to work hard and incorporate other pitches in the majors, i.e. the split finger fastball. Could be simply that he's one of those hard throwing top picks that doesn't dominate. It happens. But as for d'Arnaud, I'd be surprised at this juncture if he started in the majors. It's a stretch to think the 20ish games of him over Buck is going to have any significant impact on the results of 2013 and it buys them another year of control. Hopefully he hits just fine and gets called up and we read fun fluff pieces about him loving Piazza and all that.

Edgy MD Dec 16 2012 04:32 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

That's two thirds of a season for a starting pitcher. (And a successful two thirds.) Is that distinctly fast for a 23-year-old top pitching prospect with three years of college behind him? I don't know that is. Cole Hamels started three games at AA and and three at AAA, for instance. They had a need in the rotation, and he was the best available option.

Nymr83 Dec 16 2012 04:37 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

50-70% of a season at AAA for a 23 year old doesnt seem like "rushing" to me, its about where i'd expect it to be, though a little longer would be just as defensible.

Ashie62 Dec 16 2012 04:57 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

I've heard it said top shelf college baseball is close to AA competition wise. If true Harvey has been right on target. Now about that Dickey fellow. Cheer up young man you are being offered a lifetime of material riches.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 16 2012 05:03 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Dickster has all the power here, right? Except... if you're a 38-year-old heading into a walk year, following a year that will almost assuredly be your career best... are you going to let your one big FA multi-year deal ride on the hopes of having an injury-free 2013 that's an IMPROVEMENT over last year? Unless something really silly happens-- or we're missing a crucial piece of information here-- he'll sign. It's in his interest to do so.

metirish Dec 16 2012 05:33 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

The whole trade comes asunder when they look at his X-Ray and see he is missing a ligament in his elbow.

Nymr83 Dec 16 2012 07:19 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

I've heard it said top shelf college baseball is close to AA competition wise. If true Harvey has been right on target. I dont think thats true at all. While there may be some players capable of playing in AA, the overall level of competition is probably akin to the lowest levels of the US minors or the equivalent of the NY-Penn league. there will be a wider variety of talent though than there is at any given minor league level with the college players ranging from guys who are ready for AA to guys who wouldnt make hte first cut in minor league spring training camps.

Nymr83 Dec 16 2012 07:19 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

metirish wrote: The whole trade comes asunder when they look at his X-Ray and see he is missing a ligament in his elbow. boc

Ceetar Dec 16 2012 07:38 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Nymr83 wrote: I've heard it said top shelf college baseball is close to AA competition wise. If true Harvey has been right on target. I dont think thats true at all. While there may be some players capable of playing in AA, the overall level of competition is probably akin to the lowest levels of the US minors or the equivalent of the NY-Penn league. there will be a wider variety of talent though than there is at any given minor league level with the college players ranging from guys who are ready for AA to guys who wouldnt make hte first cut in minor league spring training camps. People said the San Diego State program that Strasburg went to was akin to AA, not sure the validity of it though.

Mets – Willets Point Dec 16 2012 07:56 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Nice job Mets. Now we have nothing left to root for. Might as well become a Blue Jays' fan and root for Dickey and Reyes.

Ceetar Dec 16 2012 08:01 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Mets – Willets Point wrote: Nice job Mets. Now we have nothing left to root for. Might as well become a Blue Jays' fan and root for Dickey and Reyes. Well, Wright, Ike, Niese, Harvey, Nieuwenhuis, Duda, etc etc. Some of the other 25 will capture our hearts I'm sure, that's how baseball works. I mean, it's not like Mets fans packed the park for Dickey starts.

Gwreck Dec 16 2012 08:18 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Ceetar wrote: Well, Wright, Ike, Niese, Harvey, Nieuwenhuis, Duda, etc etc. Some of the other 25 will capture our hearts I'm sure, that's how baseball works. I mean, it's not like Mets fans packed the park for Dickey starts. That would be the problem that all teams with four straight losing seasons face, particularly when they price their tickets as if they're perennial contenders. For the record, I think the trade is a good one. And is another good move by Sandy. But also speaks volumes that the Mets are planning on finishing in third or fourth place* in 2013. *I assume there's no way we can be worse than the Marlins in 2013.

Ceetar Dec 16 2012 08:35 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Gwreck wrote: Ceetar wrote: Well, Wright, Ike, Niese, Harvey, Nieuwenhuis, Duda, etc etc. Some of the other 25 will capture our hearts I'm sure, that's how baseball works. I mean, it's not like Mets fans packed the park for Dickey starts. That would be the problem that all teams with four straight losing seasons face, particularly when they price their tickets as if they're perennial contenders. For the record, I think the trade is a good one. And is another good move by Sandy. But also speaks volumes that the Mets are planning on finishing in third or fourth place* in 2013. *I assume there's no way we can be worse than the Marlins in 2013. well, they price their tickets as entertainment in New York, it has nothing to do with record or quality. Winning is what sells, and that's the sucky part of this trade, that it doesn't seem like they're committing to 2013. Keeping Dickey and mucking around in the outfield with..something..goes a long way towards selling rebuilding instead of selling 'coiled snake waiting for the right year to strike'. And more excitement in 2013 translates to revenue that carries over to 2014.

Mets – Willets Point Dec 16 2012 08:38 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Ceetar wrote: Mets – Willets Point wrote: Nice job Mets. Now we have nothing left to root for. Might as well become a Blue Jays' fan and root for Dickey and Reyes. Well, Wright, Ike, Niese, Harvey, Nieuwenhuis, Duda, etc etc. Some of the other 25 will capture our hearts I'm sure, that's how baseball works. I mean, it's not like Mets fans packed the park for Dickey starts. And if any of those players has a good season they too will play for another team the following year. The Mets have become the Flushing Royals.

Frayed Knot Dec 16 2012 09:30 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Nymr83 wrote: I've heard it said top shelf college baseball is close to AA competition wise. If true Harvey has been right on target. I dont think thats true at all. While there may be some players capable of playing in AA, the overall level of competition is probably akin to the lowest levels of the US minors or the equivalent of the NY-Penn league. there will be a wider variety of talent though than there is at any given minor league level with the college players ranging from guys who are ready for AA to guys who wouldnt make hte first cut in minor league spring training camps. The overall level of college ball is more akin to the lower levels of the minors, but he did say the "top shelf" is close to AA competition and that's probably pretty accurate. Guys like Harvey who were top-10 picks from major programs generally need little but refresher courses before tackling AA. Harvey himself started in high-A but spent less than a half-season there and even that was mostly due to not pitching competitively since his draft the previous June.

Edgy MD Dec 17 2012 06:01 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

The Flushing Royals just signed David Wright for eight years and something like $140 million. There's that.

bmfc1 Dec 17 2012 06:14 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Mets – Willets Point wrote: The Mets have become the Flushing Royals. And that's what makes this so painful. No question that Alderson got back a nice return (they now have new names at the top of their "Best Prospects" list http://www.minorleagueball.com/2012/12/ ... s-for-2013) but it shouldn't happen in New York. The Mets had the batting average champion and a fan favorite and let him walk away. The Mets had the Cy Young win and a fan favorite and traded him. It's not about what they got, it's about the fact that they made the trade in the first place. This happened because of friendships: Fred Wilpon invested with his childhood friend Bernie Madoff and Madoff was a criminal. Fred Wilpon and Bud Selig are friends so Selig loaned him money to keep him financially afloat rather than force him to sell as he did to Frank McCourt. Because of these friendships, we won't have the opportunity to see R.A. Dickey take the mound at Citi Field on Opening Day and give him a prolonged standing ovation. And then we won't see R.A. look around and soak up that ovation and appreciate it in a way that few athletes can. Maybe this will work out and the trade will be the turning point of future Mets success. We don't know but I do know that I'm mad that this had to happen.

G-Fafif Dec 17 2012 07:03 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Tyler Kepner, the anti-Davidoff in this piece. The title of R. A. Dickey’s memoir is “Wherever I Wind Up,” a nod to his dancing knuckleball and itinerant pitching career. He wrote the book before he won the National League Cy Young Award this year, a feat that should have answered the question of where his journey would lead. Leave it to the Mets to botch something easy, like Luis Castillo dropping a pop-up with two outs in the ninth. When the best pitcher in the National League wants to stay with you for three more years, at a steep discount, you let him stay. Why is this so complicated? By trading Dickey to the Toronto Blue Jays, pending the negotiation of a contract extension, the Mets essentially told their fans that they do not expect to contend for the next three years. The Mets have already staggered through four consecutive losing seasons, three shy of the franchise record. Now the wait to be relevant drags on. Say this for General Manager Sandy Alderson: he has guts and conviction. When Alderson came to the Mets in October 2010, with Commissioner Bud Selig’s encouragement, he was charged with reviving a team bleeding cash and saddled with overpaid, decaying players. He was bound not by sentiment, only by a duty to make the team better for the future. Along the way, Alderson got a gift in Dickey, a holdover from his predecessor, Omar Minaya. Alderson astutely signed Dickey to a two-year, $7.5 million contract, with a $5 million club option for 2013. Dickey, after winning the Cy Young, asked for two more years and $26 million, a bargain in the current market. The Mets traded him instead. The haul looks impressive. Catcher Travis d’Arnaud, 23, is considered the Blue Jays’ top prospect, ranked 17th in the sport before last season by Baseball America. Pitcher Noah Syndergaard, 20, struck out 122 batters in 1032/3 innings, allowing just 3 home runs, in the Class A Midwest League last season. But Dickey has proved himself for three seasons, with a 2.95 earned run average as a Met, and as a knuckleballer, he should be viable for at least three more, even at age 38. If the Mets had any plans to contend in that window, a No. 1 starter would be a major asset. Maybe they have aces in waiting, with Matt Harvey and Zack Wheeler, the right-hander acquired from San Francisco for Carlos Beltran in 2011. Maybe Jon Niese will be their Andy Pettitte and Johan Santana can hold up for a full season. In Dickey, at least, they knew what they were getting. But that, incredibly, could be part of the problem. The New York Post reported last week that the Mets had concerns about Dickey’s off-the-field endeavors, and that the front office was displeased that Dickey criticized the team at its holiday party on Tuesday. That day, Dickey said he had been more than fair with his contract proposal, adding that without an extension, he would probably not return in 2014. “When people say, ‘It’s business, it’s not personal,’ that just means it’s not personal for them,” he said. “It can be personal for me.” What, exactly, did the Mets expect Dickey to say? They knew reporters would ask about his contract status. They knew, presumably, that he was not happy with the team’s offer, and they know he is extremely candid when speaking in public. Yet they invited him anyway. Didn’t that invitation set up Dickey to say something the team might not like? Whether he was speaking from the heart or trying to create leverage, the Mets should have known better. To act offended is naïve and absurd, and to malign Dickey for his off-field interests is worse. This is a pitcher who went 20-6 for a team that was 74-88, becoming the first Met to win the Cy Young Award since 1985. He was a beacon on a dreary team, and he has earned the right to be trusted that he will be prepared for the season. To the Mets, apparently, it is fine for David Wright, their new $138 million player, to visit David Letterman and Jon Stewart, as he has done in the past. Yet when Dickey appears on the same shows, as he has this off-season, he’s full of himself. Please. Dickey is unfailingly polite and respectful, the way we wish all players would be. His compelling back story, and willingness to share it, broadened the Mets’ appeal. He has peeled off painful wounds from his past in an effort to help others deal with child sexual abuse, appearing on the cover of the latest Sports Illustrated in an article about it. Yet this is the man the Mets chose to malign. Trading him might make sense, if the prospects help the Mets start winning again, someday. Smearing him in the process was utterly classless. For all he gave the Mets, on the field and off, Dickey deserved better.

Ceetar Dec 17 2012 07:16 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

nah, it's just like Davidoff's piece, in that it's wildly speculative. This is akin to all those screaming debate shows, he's taking the opposite viewpoint just because. The only information I've been able to find is that the post reported that some unnamed anonymous person (And I bet in an organization the size of the Mets you can find one person to find something less positive on any other employee) said the Mets are concerned about the off the field distractions and an allusion to them being "not happy" (that's it, DAMNING! not happy? how cruel!) about his comments at the holiday party. Pretty much everything else on both sides was negotiation stuff. In fact, the Mets still thought SO MUCH of Dickey that they singled him out to be one of two current players to be part of the holiday party. Sure, the two departments might not actually talk to each other, but why is no one writing how much the Mets loved Dickey that even as they leveraged him for the future, they wanted him to be part of their holiday party? The Mets treated R.A. Dickey just fine (outside of Jerry Manuel who's no longer here) in my eyes, and I'm tired of the witch hunts just because the Wilpons are easy targets and disliked. This is the same crap the media pulled with the Walter Reed stuff, and it's disgraceful. It's things like this which is why I have so very little respect for the traditional media types.

Edgy MD Dec 17 2012 07:39 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Leave it to the Mets to botch something easy, like Luis Castillo dropping a pop-up with two outs in the ninth. When the best pitcher in the National League wants to stay with you for three more years, at a steep discount, you let him stay. Why is this so complicated? It's always been complicated.

Ashie62 Dec 17 2012 08:33 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Ceetar wrote: nah, it's just like Davidoff's piece, in that it's wildly speculative. This is akin to all those screaming debate shows, he's taking the opposite viewpoint just because. The only information I've been able to find is that the post reported that some unnamed anonymous person (And I bet in an organization the size of the Mets you can find one person to find something less positive on any other employee) said the Mets are concerned about the off the field distractions and an allusion to them being "not happy" (that's it, DAMNING! not happy? how cruel!) about his comments at the holiday party. Pretty much everything else on both sides was negotiation stuff. In fact, the Mets still thought SO MUCH of Dickey that they singled him out to be one of two current players to be part of the holiday party. Sure, the two departments might not actually talk to each other, but why is no one writing how much the Mets loved Dickey that even as they leveraged him for the future, they wanted him to be part of their holiday party? The Mets treated R.A. Dickey just fine (outside of Jerry Manuel who's no longer here) in my eyes, and I'm tired of the witch hunts just because the Wilpons are easy targets and disliked. This is the same crap the media pulled with the Walter Reed stuff, and it's disgraceful. It's things like this which is why I have so very little respect for the traditional media types. I can't distinguish media types anymore.

Edgy MD Dec 17 2012 08:38 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

By trading Dickey to the Toronto Blue Jays, pending the negotiation of a contract extension, the Mets essentially told their fans that they do not expect to contend for the next three years. These numbers always seem so arbitrary. Three? We really just mailed in a concession speech for three years?

Ceetar Dec 17 2012 08:51 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Edgy MD wrote: By trading Dickey to the Toronto Blue Jays, pending the negotiation of a contract extension, the Mets essentially told their fans that they do not expect to contend for the next three years. These numbers always seem so arbitrary. Three? We really just mailed in a concession speech for three years? I think because that as the rumored length of his contract+extension, so clearly the Mets don't see him as part of "The next contending team" of course, any message to the fans ultimately happens with the team that goes north in April. It's not like Alderson is now going to take the rest of the offseason vacation.

Edgy MD Dec 17 2012 08:59 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Ceetar wrote: Edgy MD wrote: By trading Dickey to the Toronto Blue Jays, pending the negotiation of a contract extension, the Mets essentially told their fans that they do not expect to contend for the next three years. These numbers always seem so arbitrary. Three? We really just mailed in a concession speech for three years? I think because that as the rumored length of his contract+extension, so clearly the Mets don't see him as part of "The next contending team" I think there's nothing clear at all about that, and that's some ridiculously simplistic logic.

metsmarathon Dec 17 2012 09:08 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

pfft. we already conceded the next 6 years when we didnt bring back reyes. wait. then we recommitted when we kept wright for 8 years. and now i guess the first 3 of those are off again? i'm so confused.

Ceetar Dec 17 2012 09:35 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Edgy MD wrote: Edgy MD wrote: By trading Dickey to the Toronto Blue Jays, pending the negotiation of a contract extension, the Mets essentially told their fans that they do not expect to contend for the next three years. These numbers always seem so arbitrary. Three? We really just mailed in a concession speech for three years? I think because that as the rumored length of his contract+extension, so clearly the Mets don't see him as part of "The next contending team" I think there's nothing clear at all about that, and that's some ridiculously simplistic logic. I didn't say it wasn't simplistic, just that it probably wasn't arbitrary.

G-Fafif Dec 17 2012 09:56 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

[youtube]YSUcFx0ZJGs[/youtube] Be the Jays! Be the Jays! Move up north and Be the Jays! Import Jose Sign R.A. They can have Thole That much I'll say! Because ex-Mets populate Ontario Their tax bills grow high As we groom d'Arnaud Up there, down here We will somehow get along The Jays have my two fav'rite Mets But not our song!

Gwreck Dec 17 2012 10:31 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

metsmarathon wrote: pfft. we already conceded the next 6 years when we didnt bring back reyes. We conceded 2012. Not 6 years.* wait. then we recommitted when we kept wright for 8 years. and now i guess the first 3 of those are off again? This is the confusing part. Beltran was traded for a key prospect; Reyes was allowed to walk, Dickey traded for a key prospect(s). Jason Bay was released. These are the steps a team makes when trying a rebuild. Yes, Wright figures to remain productive for several years of his contract beyond the first one but a true rebuild would have dictated trading him either 1. Prior to the 2012 season or 2. Prior to signing the extension. *Yet, at least. I suppose the best possible hope is that we haven't conceded 2014 yet.

Ceetar Dec 17 2012 11:37 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

clearly the offseason is not over yet, so we'll see, but I'm interested to see how the outfield shakes out..I mean, if they're not going to do anything, why release Bay that early, unless it was solely for the ability to defer the money from this year, and if they're not going to spend said money, are they really that broke? (and by really that broke I mean do they need to salvage every last penny the Mets make on various agreements to pay off loans on things like Citi Field?)

Edgy MD Dec 17 2012 12:10 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

A true rebuild would have meant selling the ballpark and starting over there, also. I have no problem with a rebuild that includes David Wright. I don't think that undermines any philosophical commitment.

Ceetar Dec 17 2012 12:24 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Edgy MD wrote: A true rebuild would have meant selling the ballpark and starting over there, also. I have no problem with a rebuild that includes David Wright. I don't think that undermines any philosophical commitment. Nah, the ballpark's part of the solution, not the problem. Conceptually, fine. We're broke, etc. How long does rebuilding take though? And when can we reasonably expect the offseason moves Alderson makes are more made for the immediate than the future? I guess Wright is the 'one toy' we get to keep while we're rebuilding.

Frayed Knot Dec 17 2012 12:35 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Toronto Star says the Jays & RA have reached an agreement on a two-year ($25mil) extension. All that remains now is for physicals to be passed and throw-ins to be announced.

Ceetar Dec 17 2012 02:55 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

physicals passed. We'll find out the other two prospects included when they get called up.

Ashie62 Dec 17 2012 03:13 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

So Dickey goes to Toronto for 25 Million dollars, the 5 million this year and at least 2 decent prospects. I would say both sides did well but... All that seperated Dickey from remaining a Met was 5 million dollars? Wow...

The Second Spitter Dec 17 2012 07:35 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Gwreck wrote: This is the confusing part. Beltran was traded for a key prospect; Reyes was allowed to walk, Dickey traded for a key prospect(s). Jason Bay was released. These are the steps a team makes when trying a rebuild. Yes, Wright figures to remain productive for several years of his contract beyond the first one but a true rebuild would have dictated trading him either 1. Prior to the 2012 season or 2. Prior to signing the extension. *Yet, at least. I suppose the best possible hope is that we haven't conceded 2014 yet. This post highlights the idiocy of not trading Reyes, who would have brought back at least a prospect at the same level as Wheeler, if not better. Things would have looked much rosier for 2013.

Ceetar Dec 17 2012 08:31 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

The Second Spitter wrote: Gwreck wrote: This is the confusing part. Beltran was traded for a key prospect; Reyes was allowed to walk, Dickey traded for a key prospect(s). Jason Bay was released. These are the steps a team makes when trying a rebuild. Yes, Wright figures to remain productive for several years of his contract beyond the first one but a true rebuild would have dictated trading him either 1. Prior to the 2012 season or 2. Prior to signing the extension. *Yet, at least. I suppose the best possible hope is that we haven't conceded 2014 yet. This post highlights the idiocy of not trading Reyes, who would have brought back at least a prospect at the same level as Wheeler, if not better. Things would have looked much rosier for 2013. I think there is a VERY strong possibility there was no Wheeler offered for Reyes, and that Alderson DID ask around. I think he was probably serious about considering keeping him, especially when it looked like he hamstring might drive down the value a bit. But Alderson, budget or not, seems to set a price and refuse to overpay no matter what. Hope that changes when said player might be an "over the top" player for the team though.

Gwreck Dec 17 2012 08:58 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Ceetar wrote: I think there is a VERY strong possibility there was no Wheeler offered for Reyes, and that Alderson DID ask around. I think he was probably serious about considering keeping him, especially when it looked like he hamstring might drive down the value a bit. It is possible that there was no Wheeler-caliber prospect to be had for Reyes. It is not at all possible that management was serious about keeping Reyes beyond 2012, as so clearly evidenced by their failure to even make an offer.

Ceetar Dec 17 2012 09:11 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Gwreck wrote: Ceetar wrote: I think there is a VERY strong possibility there was no Wheeler offered for Reyes, and that Alderson DID ask around. I think he was probably serious about considering keeping him, especially when it looked like he hamstring might drive down the value a bit. It is possible that there was no Wheeler-caliber prospect to be had for Reyes. It is not at all possible that management was serious about keeping Reyes beyond 2012, as so clearly evidenced by their failure to even make an offer. yeah...they didn't scribble the numbers down on paper and say "sign here please" but they discussed numbers.

Nymr83 Dec 17 2012 09:19 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Didn't Reyes get hurt right around the trading deadline? The Mets may have seen the compensation pick as more valuable than whatever they were offered at the time

Edgy MD Dec 17 2012 11:52 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

The Mets made an offer for Reyes.

Gwreck Dec 18 2012 06:30 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Am I missing something? My understanding of the circumstances was that the Mets made no formal offer because once Reyes actually hit the open market, the Mets (astutely) realized that Reyes would be getting a deal that was longer and for more money than they wanted to spend.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 18 2012 06:38 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

That's how I remember it too. I think the Mets offered to open negotiations during the summer of 2011, but Jose (or more accurately, his agent) said that they didn't want to talk contract during the season. However, once the season ended, I don't think the Mets ever made an actual offer.

Ceetar Dec 18 2012 06:57 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Alderson stated that he'd talked to the Reyes camp that weekend and had made clear what the Mets were willing to offer. But when Miami topped it and they hoped they could then get the Mets to drive up their price, Alderson didn't budge. Reyes never reached the point where he wasn't feeling out the market, and the Mets didn't want to arbitrarily bid up the price before he was actually ready to sign. He got a big offer and Alderson decided (or the Wilpons finances did) that it was too much. It's just negotiations. By officially writing down and creating a paper offer, the Mets create a market and a floor for Reyes. By NOT doing it the Reyes camp telling other teams "The Mets will give us 106" carries a little less meaning.

Edgy MD Dec 18 2012 08:08 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

The difference between a verbal offer and a formal written offer is good fodder for the furious, but it doesn't really mean anything. Reyes' agents asked Alderson how high he was willing to go. Alderson gave him a figure. Rather than say, "That's interesting --- we'd like to see a formal offer," the agents took that figure back to Miami, who topped it. Done. Is it really so terrible that the Mets didn't come running in at the 11th hour with their lower offer, hammered out and submitted officially on paper? It isn't to me. All that matters is they had their bid, the Marlins had theirs, and the Marlins' bid was higher.

Gwreck Dec 18 2012 12:33 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

I suppose it only matters in this context as to whether the Mets were serious about keeping Reyes (to refer back to why this was brought up in the first place). Regardless of the nature of their offer -- whether "formal" or "written" or a "discussion" -- the takeaway is that either 1. Sandy very much misjudged the market for Reyes' services OR 2. The Mets weren't interested in making a serious bid for Reyes' services.

Edgy MD Dec 18 2012 12:36 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

I don't know about words like "serious" or "misjudged." I just think Sandy had his ceiling and was willing to take the team's money walk away when another team went higher. What's for us to judge, I think, is whether or not he was right to walk away.

Ceetar Dec 18 2012 12:38 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Edgy MD wrote: I don't know about words like "serious" or "misjudged." I just think Sandy had his ceiling and was willing to take the team's money walk away when another team went higher. What's for us to judge, I think, is whether or not he was right to walk away. yeah, not a penny more than he was worth.. It seems like Sandy DID have a window to match if he really wanted to. Same with Dickey, who could still be a Met with a signature and less money.

Edgy MD Dec 18 2012 01:48 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

RA repents, counterclaims against postulating, consummates an opinion as to his career's redemption. ruminates on timing. There may never be another like him.

Gwreck Dec 18 2012 02:17 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Edgy MD wrote: I don't know about words like "serious" or "misjudged." I just think Sandy had his ceiling and was willing to take the team's money walk away when another team went higher. What's for us to judge, I think, is whether or not he was right to walk away. I wasn't really interested in relitigating the issue of whether he was right to walk away (I suppose we may not know for a few years). The point is -- and I did choose my words deliberately -- is that the Mets were either not seriously interested in retaining Reyes OR misjudged the market for his services. Their contract negotiation strategy illustrates just that. I said "misjudged" specifically because that is the logical conclusion drawn from assuming that the Mets (truthfully) had an interest in retaining Reyes. As stated above, if Sandy had a ceiling but other team(s) were going above it, it certainly speaks to his not having an accurate understanding of the market.

Edgy MD Dec 18 2012 02:24 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Isn't it possible that they were seriously interested, but they were just $90 million serious and not $102 million serious? Isn't it possible that the Mets judged exactly that the Marlins were willing to pay more than that and walked away with a pile of money unspent? I mean yeah, you can call them not signing him in the 2010-2011 offseason a misjudgment, but as to the the free agency period, what's to misjudge? They were in the marketplace, so there's no surprises. They were told the Marlins were willing to go higher and they walked away. There was no reports of shock that Reyes and his agents didn't come running back to them. Is that the misjudgment? That they expected Reyes' asking price to come down and meet their offer?

Mets – Willets Point Dec 18 2012 02:26 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

They could have offered him a tent.

Ceetar Dec 18 2012 02:30 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

I think if they fired Omar one season earlier Alderson would've seen, evaluated, and extended Reyes for roughly what he was willing to offer in free agency.

Edgy MD Dec 18 2012 02:34 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

I dunno. I mean, Reyes had a track record, and the Mets had plenty of holdover personnel with reams of files on him. The question that remained was whether his health-impeded seasons would continue. He had totaled 169 games total over the two previous years, with a .750 OPS. I think what kept Sandy aloof was concern about whether that was the player he was becoming. I think that concern would have been there had Sandy been aboard a year earlier. It would have been for me, at any rate.

Ceetar Dec 18 2012 02:45 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Edgy MD wrote: I dunno. I mean, Reyes had a track record, and the Mets had plenty of holdover personnel with reams of files on him. The question that remained was whether his health-impeded seasons would continue. He had totaled 169 games total over the two previous years, with a .750 OPS. I think what kept Sandy aloof was concern about whether that was the player he was becoming. I think that concern would have been there had Sandy been aboard a year earlier. It would have been for me, at any rate. maybe. it's really water under the bridge at this point anyway, but it seemed like maybe with a little more time to get to know him, really read his medical records, have a couple of meetings on it, etc, maybe things go differently. He had about a billion things to do and then was suddenly stripped of all financial flexibility shortly after taking the job.

Ashie62 Dec 18 2012 04:10 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Ironically, small market Toronto is willing to pay both R.A. and Reyes.

Gwreck Dec 18 2012 05:48 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Toronto as small market is a total myth. There are 2.6 million people in the city. It is the largest MLB city with only one team.

Edgy MD Dec 18 2012 07:07 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

They have five and a half million in the greater Toronto area and it's growing.

Ashie62 Dec 18 2012 07:16 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Much smaller than NY This entire endgame with Dickey smells to high heaven. Davidoff, the Xmas party bs...just plain wierd..

Frayed Knot Dec 18 2012 07:30 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Even if one wants to argue against the trade that was eventually made, there were numerous, logical reasons for making it, reasons which existed well before Xmas parties or Davidoff's sudden chattiness. Hell, Keith was talking during a game in late August/early Sept and said that he reached the conclusion that the most logical way he could think of to improve the team overall was to trade Dickey. That doesn't mean every fan has to like it, but it also doesn't mean that the reasons behind it were all underhanded and suspicious.

Edgy MD Dec 18 2012 07:32 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Not all that is smaller than New York is a small market. They're now the home team for all of Canada, for goodness sake.

Edgy MD Dec 18 2012 07:35 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

So, was this the acceptable package that the Mets announced they had last week? Was this a package that came in and topped that? Was this the acceptable package augmented with a some Wiulmer sauce to hold off other bidders?

Nymr83 Dec 18 2012 07:54 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

The Reyes contract was ALREADY bad for Miami, whether it turns out bad for Toronto too remains to be seen.

Ceetar Dec 19 2012 06:38 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Nymr83 wrote: The Reyes contract was ALREADY bad for Miami, whether it turns out bad for Toronto too remains to be seen. one could argue the Marlins got exactly what they wanted out of that contract.

Mets – Willets Point Dec 19 2012 08:06 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

And the Canadian dollar is stronger than ever.

Ceetar Dec 19 2012 08:10 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Mets – Willets Point wrote: And the Canadian dollar is stronger than ever. practically equiv as it's been for a year or two. would be a good time to start a "North American" currency like the Euro?

Swan Swan H Dec 19 2012 08:11 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Davidoff's response to the brouhaha, the imbroglio, the ruckus caused by his anti-Dickey piece in the Post. I guess the part of this that I don't understand is how many people immediately perceived the piece as a plant by Mets management. I never saw Davidoff as a mouthpiece for the Wilpons. Am I wrong?

Benjamin Grimm Dec 19 2012 08:20 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

The Wilpons are the opposite of Teflon. Everything bad sticks to them. (Sometimes with merit, but sometimes without.)

Chad Ochoseis Dec 19 2012 08:23 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Ceetar wrote: Mets – Willets Point wrote: And the Canadian dollar is stronger than ever. practically equiv as it's been for a year or two. would be a good time to start a "North American" currency like the Euro? We'd have to have agreement on banking and monetary regulations. Ain't gonna happen. Besides that, would anyone want a world without purple ten dollar bills?

Ceetar Dec 19 2012 08:24 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Swan Swan H wrote: Davidoff's response to the brouhaha, the imbroglio, the ruckus caused by his anti-Dickey piece in the Post. I guess the part of this that I don't understand is how many people immediately perceived the piece as a plant by Mets management. I never saw Davidoff as a mouthpiece for the Wilpons. Am I wrong? Some people are broken records. They have a narrative and every 'incident' can be shoe-horned into it. This piece absolves the media of all blame for even asking the questions, because it was their job and they're acting on behalf the fans. Where that fails is that A. if getting this information to the fans is part of the job, it's ALSO part of Dickey's job. If he fails to answer he's ducking the media but if he answers it's not the place for it? come on. and B. It's not like this was the one and only chance for us as fans to hear anything about Dickey's side of the negotiation. He's suggesting if they didn't ask then we'd have no idea what was going on.

Ceetar Dec 19 2012 08:25 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Chad Ochoseis wrote: Ceetar wrote: Mets – Willets Point wrote: And the Canadian dollar is stronger than ever. practically equiv as it's been for a year or two. would be a good time to start a "North American" currency like the Euro? We'd have to have agreement on banking and monetary regulations. Ain't gonna happen. Besides that, would anyone want a world without purple ten dollar bills? I'll drop the purple bills for one with Dickey's face on it.

Mets – Willets Point Dec 19 2012 09:13 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Ceetar wrote: Ceetar wrote: Mets – Willets Point wrote: And the Canadian dollar is stronger than ever. practically equiv as it's been for a year or two. would be a good time to start a "North American" currency like the Euro? We'd have to have agreement on banking and monetary regulations. Ain't gonna happen. Besides that, would anyone want a world without purple ten dollar bills? I'll drop the purple bills for one with Dickey's face on it. Someone with photoshop get working on this NOW!!!!

Ceetar Dec 19 2012 09:20 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Mets – Willets Point wrote: Mets – Willets Point wrote: And the Canadian dollar is stronger than ever. practically equiv as it's been for a year or two. would be a good time to start a "North American" currency like the Euro? We'd have to have agreement on banking and monetary regulations. Ain't gonna happen. Besides that, would anyone want a world without purple ten dollar bills? I'll drop the purple bills for one with Dickey's face on it. Someone with photoshop get working on this NOW!!!! would be a good candidate for Amazin' Avenue's goodbye Dickeyface contest [url]http://www.amazinavenue.com/2012/12/18/3779274/the-amazin-avenue-r-a-dickey-face-contest-strikes-back

Frayed Knot Dec 19 2012 10:06 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Ceetar wrote: Mets – Willets Point wrote: And the Canadian dollar is stronger than ever. practically equiv as it's been for a year or two. would be a good time to start a "North American" currency like the Euro? And look how well that's worked out for Europe!

duan Dec 19 2012 10:43 AM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Frayed Knot wrote: Ceetar wrote: Mets – Willets Point wrote: And the Canadian dollar is stronger than ever. practically equiv as it's been for a year or two. would be a good time to start a "North American" currency like the Euro? And look how well that's worked out for Europe! well if it weren't for Lehman Bros ...... ;)

dinosaur jesus Dec 19 2012 01:33 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Mets – Willets Point wrote: Mets – Willets Point wrote: And the Canadian dollar is stronger than ever. practically equiv as it's been for a year or two. would be a good time to start a "North American" currency like the Euro? We'd have to have agreement on banking and monetary regulations. Ain't gonna happen. Besides that, would anyone want a world without purple ten dollar bills? I'll drop the purple bills for one with Dickey's face on it. Someone with photoshop get working on this NOW!!!!

Ashie62 Dec 19 2012 03:57 PM Re: RA. Dickey Trade Rumors Deserve Their Own Thread

Now he looks like a super villian..