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An Elementary School?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Dec 14 2012 10:18 AM
Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Dec 14 2012 10:23 AM

Breaking: Mass shooting in Newtown, Connecticut elementary school. Multiple injured, including teachers and students... at least one young child dead. One gunman dead... law enforcement looking for possible second shooter.

Reporters on noon news cornering 7- and 8-year-olds being walked home by parents for details... which is more than a little discomfiting.

metirish
Dec 14 2012 10:21 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

Been watching this.....sickening

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Dec 14 2012 10:39 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

motherficking violence in this country is ridicuous

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Dec 14 2012 10:40 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

Preliminary count: 27 confirmed dead; 14 kids.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Dec 14 2012 10:41 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

fuck

metirish
Dec 14 2012 10:45 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote:
Preliminary count: 27 confirmed dead; 14 kids.




where are you seeing that?

themetfairy
Dec 14 2012 10:50 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

Horrible. Just horrible....

metirish
Dec 14 2012 10:51 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

metirish wrote:
Preliminary count: 27 confirmed dead; 14 kids.




where are you seeing that?



seeing it now on CBS..........there are no words

cooby
Dec 14 2012 10:55 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

OMG...

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Dec 14 2012 11:02 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

Revised, per WCBS News: at least 18 kids dead.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Dec 14 2012 11:17 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

just revolting.

We should not only be banning ownership of weapons we should ban the manufacture and importing of them. Sickening.

seawolf17
Dec 14 2012 11:22 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

Horrifying on every level; I don't even have words.

cooby
Dec 14 2012 11:26 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

My daughter is an elementary school teacher. At her first school, in Wilmington, a father came into the school with a gun. Thank god he called ahead, because he was apprehended when he got there.

Meanwhile everyone had to hide under their desks, behind shelves, wherever, not knowing what was going on. My daughter and all these other young teachers kept themselves calm (as possible) by texting each other from underneath their desks.

I didn't know any of this, of course, until it was all over, but even then it was beyond upsetting.

This situation in Connecticut is horrifying. Those poor people; they'll never get this out of their heads.

metirish
Dec 14 2012 11:29 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

I just can't imagine as a parent taking that drive to that school and not knowing.......awful

AP reports shooter was a 20 year old with ties to the school

a second person in custody at the scene, found in the woods near school , wearing camo...told parents he didn't do it.

G-Fafif
Dec 14 2012 11:43 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

Newtown is the late Dana Brand's neck of the woods. I went up there for his memorial service. Beautiful little New England town. Geez.

seawolf17
Dec 14 2012 12:00 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

I realize, as a former journalist, how completely helpless reporters can be sometimes. You want to share real information as soon as you can, but there just isn't much of anything to say right now.

metirish
Dec 14 2012 12:01 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

A body has been found in the home of the suspect......

seawolf17
Dec 14 2012 12:03 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

So what now, parents? How do we talk with MiniWolf about this when he get home? This is one of those things they don't tell you about in Parent School.

metirish
Dec 14 2012 12:05 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

seawolf17 wrote:
So what now, parents? How do we talk with MiniWolf about this when he get home? This is one of those things they don't tell you about in Parent School.




I hear you, I think Lorcan at five is maybe too young to comprehend this...I just want to be home with my family right now.....

cooby
Dec 14 2012 12:08 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

Paul Adams BBC News, Washington For some time, the apparent lack of panic outside the school led networks to report that the death toll was low, including the gunman and members of staff. But over the past hour, an altogether more horrific picture has emerged. With the police still sweeping the school, there are reports that an entire class, possibly a kindergarten, remains unaccounted for.

themetfairy
Dec 14 2012 12:13 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

seawolf17 wrote:
So what now, parents? How do we talk with MiniWolf about this when he get home? This is one of those things they don't tell you about in Parent School.


I don't know what I'm going to say to MK.

Hug your kids a lot tonight. Tell them how much you love them.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Dec 14 2012 12:24 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

seawolf17 wrote:
So what now, parents? How do we talk with MiniWolf about this when he get home? This is one of those things they don't tell you about in Parent School.


Hoping we're not in a position to have to address it so directly. One inconvenience I'm glad of, it's next to impossible to get into my kid's school if you're not a kid.

cooby
Dec 14 2012 12:30 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/20734267

I feel horrible to even be watching, but this appears to be a live feed outside

metirish
Dec 14 2012 12:37 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

Reports saying the suspects mother was a teacher at the school, she is among the dead.......

cooby
Dec 14 2012 12:46 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

How scary would it be to be there with all those people walking around with guns and not knowing if they are more bad guys?

metirish
Dec 14 2012 12:50 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

Seems like this suspect was targeting his mother

Breaking: Law enforcement official says gunman at Ct. school killed mother, who was teacher, then killed 18 children in class.

— Clifford Levy (@cliffordlevy) December 14, 2012

Edgy MD
Dec 14 2012 01:06 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

Great. Cyber-vigilantes looking to get somebody.

metirish
Dec 14 2012 01:12 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

Yeah, that is awful....CBS is showing that guy .....


younger brother of suspect in custody

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Dec 14 2012 01:13 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

seawolf17 wrote:
So what now, parents? How do we talk with MiniWolf about this when he get home? This is one of those things they don't tell you about in Parent School.


You want to talk about it with them before warped adults or nasty older kids do, or garbled, distorted versions of it otherwise reach them somehow. They find out; I'd rather they find out from me.

Hell, Artie's 2 1/2, and when she saw a Visitor's Guide to the memorial lying around the other day, she ended up asking and listening about 9/11.

cooby
Dec 14 2012 01:29 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

Edgy MD wrote:
Great. Cyber-vigilantes looking to get somebody.



So this is another Ryan Lanza?

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Dec 14 2012 01:35 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

Word is shooter may have has his id? Stoopit.

Edgy MD
Dec 14 2012 01:40 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

A scared shitless one, outed on the news.

He closed his Facebook account, and then somebody opened up a new one and uploaded a bunch of pictures of him so he could be menaced further. Multiple news outlets used the photos from his account.

He's going to be a very rich man if he survives the day.

cooby
Dec 14 2012 01:43 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

God love him. That is so cruel. Isn't today bad enough without somebody hurting somebody just to be "funny"?

seawolf17
Dec 14 2012 01:55 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

That's terrifying too, especially in a digital era like this... that someone who just happens to have the same name as you perpetrates a crime like this. It'll destroy your life by association.

cooby
Dec 14 2012 02:19 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

Now they are saying it was the younger brother all along!

Swan Swan H
Dec 14 2012 03:07 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 14 2012 05:04 PM

Moved to Gun Control thread.

Edgy MD
Dec 14 2012 03:09 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

This afternoon, I spoke with Governor Malloy and FBI Director Mueller. I offered Governor Malloy my condolences on behalf of the nation, and made it clear he will have every single resource that he needs to investigate this heinous crime, care for the victims, counsel their families.

We’ve endured too many of these tragedies in the past few years. And each time I learn the news I react not as a President, but as anybody else would — as a parent. And that was especially true today. I know there’s not a parent in America who doesn’t feel the same overwhelming grief that I do.

The majority of those who died today were children — beautiful little kids between the ages of 5 and 10 years old. They had their entire lives ahead of them — birthdays, graduations, weddings, kids of their own. Among the fallen were also teachers — men and women who devoted their lives to helping our children fulfill their dreams.



So our hearts are broken today — for the parents and grandparents, sisters and brothers of these little children, and for the families of the adults who were lost. Our hearts are broken for the parents of the survivors as well, for as blessed as they are to have their children home tonight, they know that their children’s innocence has been torn away from them too early, and there are no words that will ease their pain.

As a country, we have been through this too many times. Whether it’s an elementary school in Newtown, or a shopping mall in Oregon, or a temple in Wisconsin, or a movie theater in Aurora, or a street corner in Chicago — these neighborhoods are our neighborhoods, and these children are our children. And we’re going to have to come together and take meaningful action to prevent more tragedies like this, regardless of the politics.

This evening, Michelle and I will do what I know every parent in America will do, which is hug our children a little tighter and we’ll tell them that we love them, and we’ll remind each other how deeply we love one another. But there are families in Connecticut who cannot do that tonight. And they need all of us right now. In the hard days to come, that community needs us to be at our best as Americans. And I will do everything in my power as President to help.

Because while nothing can fill the space of a lost child or loved one, all of us can extend a hand to those in need — to remind them that we are there for them, that we are praying for them, that the love they felt for those they lost endures not just in their memories but also in ours.

May God bless the memory of the victims and, in the words of Scripture, heal the brokenhearted and bind up their wounds.

seawolf17
Dec 14 2012 03:26 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

Really hard to watch the president break up like that.

This whole day is awesome fodder for a journalism class.

Centerfield
Dec 14 2012 05:53 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

Just reading about this now. Oh my god.

There are no words. I can't believe things like this can happen in the world.

cooby
Dec 14 2012 07:31 PM
Re: An Elementary School?



I just want to hold this little boy

MFS62
Dec 14 2012 08:50 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

I am deeply shaken, no only for what happened but what might have happened.
One of my daughters moved out of Newtown last year and the other almost bought a house one mile from that school. My grandchildren could have been at that school today.
My prayers go out to all of those families.

Later

Edgy MD
Dec 15 2012 09:40 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

Has any major news story ever been so consistently and broadly dogged by such terrible reporting?

Edgy MD
Dec 15 2012 11:27 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

So, for those wondering how to talk your kids, I have no clue, but a lot of folks --- including some more experienced in tragedy than I am --- are sharing this. It's more for talking to folks directly hurt, but...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rev-emily ... 03910.html

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Dec 15 2012 02:17 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

There's a pretty good guide to the basics at the Times site, if you haven't yet used your ten free articles this month:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/healt ... .html?_r=0

Fman99
Dec 15 2012 03:41 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

themetfairy wrote:
Hug your kids a lot tonight. Tell them how much you love them.


Every day. ALL the time.

Mets – Willets Point
Dec 15 2012 07:39 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

Fman99 wrote:
themetfairy wrote:
Hug your kids a lot tonight. Tell them how much you love them.


Every day. ALL the time.


Pretty much. This just reassures me that I'm not hugging them too much.

metirish
Dec 18 2012 06:25 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

Can't watch the news anymore, the media are like fucking vultures, do they need to report from each funeral?, does Dr. Phil need to be up there?

One of the more disgusting things I will take away from this from a media perspective was Lou Young(CBS) basically chasing down parents with their kids as they made their way back to their homes.

Centerfield
Dec 18 2012 07:50 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

I cannot watch any coverage or read an article without tearing up. Even the post cover had me choked up this morning.

Many days later there are still no words for this horrific event. I will be glad to see 2012 come to an end.

seawolf17
Dec 18 2012 08:00 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

Centerfield wrote:
I cannot watch any coverage or read an article without tearing up. Even the post cover had me choked up this morning.

Many days later there are still no words for this horrific event. I will be glad to see 2012 come to an end.

I just read the story about the psychologist who found the six kids who escaped Ms. Soto's classroom sitting in his driveway. I'm tearing up just thinking about it.

Benjamin Grimm
Dec 18 2012 08:01 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

I'm pretty much avoiding the coverage. I don't need to know the details and it's all too horrible to focus on.

It brings back a memory of my own, though...

Back in the fall of 1981, in my freshman year at NYU, I was in a dorm suite with four other roommates. There was one that I didn't get along all that well with; we didn't really clash, but we weren't friends either. One day I was sitting on my bed reading, when he came into the room, tossed his things on his bed, and said, "Some day I want to take a machine gun into the Main Building and kill all the Jews in the lobby waiting for the elevator." (He was Jewish himself, by the way.) My eyes bugged out of my head, but I pretended that I hadn't heard him. It never came up again, and, fortunately, he never acted on that impulse.

This was 31 years ago, before Columbine and all the other horrible events that have happened since then. I think at the time this phenomenon was, for some reason, mostly confined to postal workers. But now, when these incidents occur, like at Sandy Hook, or at the Batman movie in Aurora, Colorado, I think back on that day. If I was a college freshman now, and my roommate said something like that, I'd be more likely to recognize it as a very dangerous red flag. And I'd like to think I would have said or done something. But what? There are probably very many people who express thoughts like that, and relatively few who act on them. But we've learned that such sentiments can't be ignored.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Dec 18 2012 08:18 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

Yup. While in this case the ridiculously easy access to guns ought to raise debate about controlling them (I would advocate melting them, going after manufacturers, distribtors, etc) the bigger problem is a crazy young man control issue. I don't know if this is true but I read that a study found that of 43 shoot-em-ups, 42 of them were committed by a troubled young man who had confided in somebody that they had thoughts of doing such a thing but obviously were out there in the street. We need to institutionalize more, and probably self-medicate less.

(and guys, don;t watch the news on this. You know enough detail already).

Edgy MD
Dec 18 2012 08:46 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

I listened to the memorial service during a long drive yesterday, because it was important to me to hear what the president is thinking.

Detaining the mentally ill, like regulating guns, has been made very problematic by court decisions. And the mentally ill don't even have a super-powerful lobby. But if you could put someone away for the thoughts in his head, my 16-year-old self would have been caged. And I'm sure he would have had endless company.

I think it all starts with guns. I think statistics would suggest that our troubled young'ns aren't any more violent than those in most other developed countries. They're no more depressed, and they give no particularly greater portion of their time to violent entertainment. What they have is access to guns. Awesome guns that fire multiple rounds in the blink of an eye. Guns that are good for nothing but firing into a crowd and killing large amounts of people with minimal effort.

The notion that "If a guy wants to find a way to kill, he will," is absurd. I imagine that it generally takes over a hundred bad decisions to kill a guy with your fists, dozens to kill a guy with a stick, about a dozen to kill him with a knife, and about three to kill him with a gun. Automatic weapons? Come on. Would these guys have all built some kind of home-based bomb-making laboratory if they had no access to guns? It doesn't hold up logically.

Edgy MD
Dec 18 2012 09:30 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

A profiteer feels shame and acts to lift further shame off themselves. That's a good day.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/ ... -group/?hp

batmagadanleadoff
Dec 18 2012 09:50 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

Edgy MD wrote:
A profiteer feels shame and acts to lift further shame off themselves. That's a good day.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/ ... -group/?hp


/rolls eyes --- 'Cause this has nothing to do with Cerberus's private belief that the gunmaker's $tock is about to drop.

metsmarathon
Dec 18 2012 09:56 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

in general, medical care for hte mentally ill is in a shameful state in this country, and likely in the world.

for every other illness of the body, diagnosis treatment and care is celebrated.

for illnesses of the mind, there is only shame and despair.

"crazy" "nuts" "psycho" "schizo" "whacko"

recovering drug addicts who willfully filled their body with poison are held in higher esteem than those diagnosed with mental illnesses. nobody chooses to be mentally ill. nobody wants to be mentally ill.

the mentally ill are not criminals and they are not evil. they are ill.

there but for the grace of god go us all. each of us may be one step away from true real honest-to-goodness mental illness and we would never know it. maybe the right stimulus just never presented itself at the right time. maybe the right pressures never materialized. maybe the right catalyst was never there. maybe you saw the signs early enough and were able to adjust course, never truly knowing the freight train that was barrelling down upon you in hte dark gloomy night.

there but for the grace of god go us all.

as sickened by the actions of friday, i feel honest and true pity for adam lanza. i am saddened that the right help never materialized for him, or maybe wasn't even possible. i am saddened that the best efforts of his family could not keep him from falling so far afield. i am truly saddened that his life spiraled so far out of control that this was the end that presented itself to him as the proper reaction and conclusion to that which afflicted and affected him. i am sorry that he had no hope, and only knew only such despair that he wished to unleash upon those poor schoolchildren that hell he brought to their school.

i am sorry he was so broken that he could not be fixed.

i have seen what mental illness can do to a person. i have seen what hte lack of adequate health care for the mentla ill can do to a person. i have seen the stigmas that the mentally ill face, that are weighed upon them by society, friends, family, and themselves.

there but for the grace of god go us all.

Edgy MD
Dec 18 2012 09:58 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

/rolls eyes --- 'Cause this has nothing to do with Cerberus's private belief that the gunmaker's $tock is about to drop.


Oh, I'm pretty sure it's dropped precipitously already.

But if shame is represented in the marketplace as a declining share price, that's good too. We just have to sustain that until gun manufacturers become a hot potato that nobody wants to hold.

(And then some Austrian firm sweeps in and buys them up at rock bottom prices.)

metirish
Dec 18 2012 10:02 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

Excellent post MM

I was trying to think of a documentary I saw on the state of mental health care in this country.

Here it is, IIRC I saw this on Netflix

The New Asylums

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/asylums/

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... opsis.html

Ceetar
Dec 19 2012 06:47 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

There is this too. These psychiatric drugs in general seem scary as it is and this is reportedly the one Lanza was on. Mental illness doesn't seem like something you can just throw a pill at.

From Drugs.com, side effects of the drug Fanapt:
Psychiatric
Psychiatric side effects including restlessness, aggression, and delusion have been reported frequently. Hostility, decreased libido, paranoia, anorgasmia, confusional state, mania, catatonia, mood swings, panic attack, obsessive-compulsive disorder, bulimia nervosa, delirium, polydipsia psychogenic, impulse-control disorder, and major depression have been reported infrequently.


Read more: [url]http://www.businessinsider.com/adam-lanza-taking-antipsychotic-fanapt-2012-12#ixzz2FVO4Zz2K

metsmarathon
Dec 19 2012 07:51 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

was he actually taking them, or was he just prescribed them? had he been taking them and stopped? had he been taking them in conjunction with therapy, or just standalone?

no, you can't just "throw a pill" at it, any more than you can just throw a pill at any serious, prolonged medical condition.

the psychiatric drugs are intimidating and imperfect, true. but they are, frequently, the best option available (or are at least integral to the best solution). its critical to find hte right one or combination for each indivicual, and pair it with ongoing care and therapy and treatment and monitoring and modification, as a drug that used to work can suddenly stop working, and often times the worst thing you can do is to stop taking them altogether.

if theres better, clinically and scientifically proven treatment out there for mental illnesses such as schizophrenia, i'd like to know what it is.

i'd love to know what it is.

Ceetar
Dec 19 2012 08:03 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

Doesn't say. In fact, it claims it was mentioned in the linked daily news article but beyond a comment mentioning it I don't see it in the article. (Was updated?)

If true, it's a drug that has barely passed approval and actually been denied a couple of times, it's still scary. It's scary anyway. It's probably the best treatment in many cases, but it's a far cry from 'scientifically proven' hence the trial and error associated with the process. (I have a friend who is apparently dealing with this sort of thing, she was emotionally erratic before diagnosis and it only seems exasperated since)

Mental illness and the general philosophy regarding drugs perscriptions scare me. As much as I'd be happy to see guns banned, this is probably a bigger issue and much less black and white.

metsmarathon
Dec 19 2012 08:10 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

i have a very close relative who is affected by this. as a result of a deep-seeded distrust of "medicine" and "doctors" and "drugs" and "chemicals" i have seen what a lack of treatment - a lack of medicine - does.

Ceetar
Dec 19 2012 08:21 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

metsmarathon wrote:
i have a very close relative who is affected by this. as a result of a deep-seeded distrust of "medicine" and "doctors" and "drugs" and "chemicals" i have seen what a lack of treatment - a lack of medicine - does.


Oh, yeah lack of treatment is bad, I just feel like the drugs are treated as some sort of magic pill at times and not as the literally brain-altering substances they are. Do you think there are enough checks and balances and monitoring in place?

metsmarathon
Dec 19 2012 08:25 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

i wish my relative were engaged enough in the whole "treatment" thing for me to have formed an opinion on the matter. what i can say is that there are very few, it seems, resources available to help those who want to help those who don't think they need help.

and, well, the brain-altering is what you're after, isn't it?

Ceetar
Dec 19 2012 08:51 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

metsmarathon wrote:
i wish my relative were engaged enough in the whole "treatment" thing for me to have formed an opinion on the matter. what i can say is that there are very few, it seems, resources available to help those who want to help those who don't think they need help.


Can't imagine it's cheap either.

metsmarathon wrote:



and, well, the brain-altering is what you're after, isn't it?


yeah. brain-altering drugs to balance brain-altering illness. Sounds volatile and tricky. It's not the drugs themselves I'm concerned with as much as the back and forth trial and error period. I'm definitely on board with more funding and research into the brain. scary place with so much seemingly unknown.

themetfairy
Dec 19 2012 09:13 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

All the best mm - I can only imagine how difficult the situation with your relative is for you. The best of good vibes!

MFS62
Dec 23 2012 08:09 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

My daughter's Brother-In-Law is a policeman in Stamford. He was riding security/ traffic control at one of the Newtown funerals. His motorcycle was hit by a car and was hospitalized with broken knee and elbow.

Later

cooby
Dec 23 2012 04:13 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

Geez, I hope he heals soon.

Edgy MD
Jan 15 2013 08:09 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

Just reading about the psychologist who reportedly found a bunch of the surviving children huddled in his driveway getting waves of electronic and phone harassment. Do people really believe this entire event was staged as a pretext to take away their guns?

HahnSolo
Jan 16 2013 07:06 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

Edgy MD wrote:
Just reading about the psychologist who reportedly found a bunch of the surviving children huddled in his driveway getting waves of electronic and phone harassment. Do people really believe this entire event was staged as a pretext to take away their guns?


Based on the reactions I've seen on the social media, yes.

Edgy MD
Jan 16 2013 07:34 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

So, how does it go? That citizens of the town and their family and friends are all in on some fake staged event and that none of the dead are real? Or that the administration somehow programmed the killer to shoot up the school and then turn the gun on himself to cover their tracks?

metirish
Jan 16 2013 07:50 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

Nothing surprises me, some of these people still think Obama is Muslim and wasn't born here, what does often surprise me is that some of these people are wildly successful and I would think quite smart, hard to correlate those two sides.

Edgy MD
Jan 16 2013 08:04 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

I would think it would be easier for Obama to achieve the presidency despite covering up the alleged truth about his faith and his birth locale than it would be to stage a fake massacre at an elementary school in a bucolic town in Connecticut.

I dunno, I guess you could have the shooter already dead in the school, and then have a Lanza lookalike shoot up the place before disposing of his costume. That would work in... in some Paul Verhoeven movie or something. But come on.

The regicidal fantasies are what get me --- that the act of owning a gun is not to protect you against intruders, or for hunting (both arguments that are easily defensible whether or not I support them), but to protect you against the government, and that's why the government wants to get you, because they're threatened that their power isn't secure while Todd J. Hawkins of Parsippany has a Glock.

Hey, Todd J. Hawikins, if the government of the United States wanted to get you, they could delete you from space, and there isn't a thing you and your sidearm can do about it.

So maybe we should dial down the whole "the tree of liberty is watered with the blood of tyrants" rhetoric.

Vic Sage
Jan 16 2013 08:48 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

So it was all a conspiracy to grab their guns? Wow.
This kind of paranoid delusional mindset is consistent with the base of the NRA, and Tea Party extremists in general, for that matter.

Because, lets face facts here, when the NRA and the Wacko Right resist a ban on military grade weapons, and common-sense regulation of all other firearms, they obviously aren't defending the rights of people to hunt, or the right of people to have a handgun in their homes to protect their loved ones, or even the right of the States [not individuals] to maintain a regular and well-ordered militia (which was the sole stated purpose of the 2nd Amendment). They are not even fighting for the right of everybody to violently resist illegal govt action, since they fought AGAINST the Black Panther party's efforts to publicly carry guns back in the 60s.

The NRA is, instead, defending only the rights of the white lunatic fringe, which are its constituency, to maintain stockpiles of weapons of sufficient stopping power to stage an insurrection should the country be taken over by "them" (and "them" includes Muslim foreign-born communist Presidents, and illegals crawling over the border stealing our jobs and tipping our elections to the Left, and the Northeast intellectual liberal media establishment [i.e., Jews], and the underemployed undereducated inner-city criminal underclass with their hands out [i.e., Blacks], and those corrupt tax-and-spend politicians illegally seizing property (i.e. freely elected government workers engaged in their constitutionally mandated obligation to tax)). And as far as they're concerned, the first and clearest example of such an apocalyptic event is when the government comes for their guns. So they need guns to fight the government that wants to come for their guns. Of course, if they didn't have the guns, the government wouldn't have to come for them... but then what they revolt over? I mean, they're revolting anyway, but that's a separate matter.

Never before has the agenda of the NRA been so nakedly exposed for what they are... a powerful, wealthy, intimidating lobbying organization for gun manufacturers and the wacko fringe that supports them, waiting for their chance to "take their country back" over the dead bodies of school children and the mentally ill. And i guess their efforts are effective, too, because they sure make ME want to buy a gun... to defend my family from them and theirs. Which is, of course, their dream... Fort America, where force is met with force, everyone's armed, law & order goes to the biggest gun, and anyone can get caught in the crossfire.

Where is the leadership on the Right telling these fuckers to shut the hell up? It has to come from the Right, because that constituency clearly has no interest in what the Left has to say (or federal, state and local law enforcement agencies, or the commander in chief, or the parents of dead children). Of course, they've been systematically targeting the rational voices on the Right for elimination in the Republican primary process, so there are fewer and fewer such voices left (or brave enough to stand up to them).

MFS62
Jan 16 2013 08:53 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

Speaking of "White Lunatic", this humanitarian pops up again with his take.
Why am I not surprised?
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Baseball/MLB/ ... 99126.html

Remember, only three more days 'till Gun Appreciation day (Canada)

Later

metirish
Jan 16 2013 09:01 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

WOW...

Rocker wrote

“Absolute certainties are a rare thing in this life,” he continued, “but one I think can be collectively agreed upon is the undeniable fact that the Holocaust would have never taken place had the Jewish citizenry of Hitler’s Germany had the right to bear arms and defended themselves with those arms."

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Jan 16 2013 09:07 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

Vic Sage wrote:
So it was all a conspiracy to grab their guns? Wow.
This kind of paranoid delusional mindset is consistent with the base of the NRA, and Tea Party extremists in general, for that matter.

Because, lets face facts here, when the NRA and the Wacko Right resist a ban on military grade weapons, and common-sense regulation of all other firearms, they obviously aren't defending the rights of people to hunt, or the right of people to have a handgun in their homes to protect their loved ones, or even the right of the States [not individuals] to maintain a regular and well-ordered militia (which was the sole stated purpose of the 2nd Amendment). They are not even fighting for the right of everybody to violently resist illegal govt action, since they fought AGAINST the Black Panther party's efforts to publicly carry guns back in the 60s.

The NRA is, instead, defending only the rights of the white lunatic fringe, which are its constituency, to maintain stockpiles of weapons of sufficient stopping power to stage an insurrection should the country be taken over by "them" (and "them" includes Muslim foreign-born communist Presidents, and illegals crawling over the border stealing our jobs and tipping our elections to the Left, and the Northeast intellectual liberal media establishment [i.e., Jews], and the underemployed undereducated inner-city criminal underclass with their hands out [i.e., Blacks], and those corrupt tax-and-spend politicians illegally seizing property (i.e. freely elected government workers engaged in their constitutionally mandated obligation to tax)). And as far as they're concerned, the first and clearest example of such an apocalyptic event is when the government comes for their guns. So they need guns to fight the government that wants to come for their guns. Of course, if they didn't have the guns, the government wouldn't have to come for them... but then what they revolt over? I mean, they're revolting anyway, but that's a separate matter.

Never before has the agenda of the NRA been so nakedly exposed for what they are... a powerful, wealthy, intimidating lobbying organization for gun manufacturers and the wacko fringe that supports them, waiting for their chance to "take their country back" over the dead bodies of school children and the mentally ill. And i guess their efforts are effective, too, because they sure make ME want to buy a gun... to defend my family from them and theirs. Which is, of course, their dream... Fort America, where force is met with force, everyone's armed, law & order goes to the biggest gun, and anyone can get caught in the crossfire.

Where is the leadership on the Right telling these fuckers to shut the hell up? It has to come from the Right, because that constituency clearly has no interest in what the Left has to say (or federal, state and local law enforcement agencies, or the commander in chief, or the parents of dead children). Of course, they've been systematically targeting the rational voices on the Right for elimination in the Republican primary process, so there are fewer and fewer such voices left (or brave enough to stand up to them).


Bravissimo. Can you post this on my wacko right friend's facebook page please?

Mets – Willets Point
Jan 16 2013 09:12 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote:
Vic Sage wrote:
So it was all a conspiracy to grab their guns? Wow.
This kind of paranoid delusional mindset is consistent with the base of the NRA, and Tea Party extremists in general, for that matter.

Because, lets face facts here, when the NRA and the Wacko Right resist a ban on military grade weapons, and common-sense regulation of all other firearms, they obviously aren't defending the rights of people to hunt, or the right of people to have a handgun in their homes to protect their loved ones, or even the right of the States [not individuals] to maintain a regular and well-ordered militia (which was the sole stated purpose of the 2nd Amendment). They are not even fighting for the right of everybody to violently resist illegal govt action, since they fought AGAINST the Black Panther party's efforts to publicly carry guns back in the 60s.

The NRA is, instead, defending only the rights of the white lunatic fringe, which are its constituency, to maintain stockpiles of weapons of sufficient stopping power to stage an insurrection should the country be taken over by "them" (and "them" includes Muslim foreign-born communist Presidents, and illegals crawling over the border stealing our jobs and tipping our elections to the Left, and the Northeast intellectual liberal media establishment [i.e., Jews], and the underemployed undereducated inner-city criminal underclass with their hands out [i.e., Blacks], and those corrupt tax-and-spend politicians illegally seizing property (i.e. freely elected government workers engaged in their constitutionally mandated obligation to tax)). And as far as they're concerned, the first and clearest example of such an apocalyptic event is when the government comes for their guns. So they need guns to fight the government that wants to come for their guns. Of course, if they didn't have the guns, the government wouldn't have to come for them... but then what they revolt over? I mean, they're revolting anyway, but that's a separate matter.

Never before has the agenda of the NRA been so nakedly exposed for what they are... a powerful, wealthy, intimidating lobbying organization for gun manufacturers and the wacko fringe that supports them, waiting for their chance to "take their country back" over the dead bodies of school children and the mentally ill. And i guess their efforts are effective, too, because they sure make ME want to buy a gun... to defend my family from them and theirs. Which is, of course, their dream... Fort America, where force is met with force, everyone's armed, law & order goes to the biggest gun, and anyone can get caught in the crossfire.

Where is the leadership on the Right telling these fuckers to shut the hell up? It has to come from the Right, because that constituency clearly has no interest in what the Left has to say (or federal, state and local law enforcement agencies, or the commander in chief, or the parents of dead children). Of course, they've been systematically targeting the rational voices on the Right for elimination in the Republican primary process, so there are fewer and fewer such voices left (or brave enough to stand up to them).


Bravissimo. Can you post this on my wacko right friend's facebook page please?


Very well said Vic.

Vic Sage
Jan 16 2013 09:16 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Jan 16 2013 09:22 AM

WOW...

Rocker wrote

“Absolute certainties are a rare thing in this life,” he continued, “but one I think can be collectively agreed upon is the undeniable fact that the Holocaust would have never taken place had the Jewish citizenry of Hitler’s Germany had the right to bear arms and defended themselves with those arms."


it would have simply been a holocaust of a different sort. An armed civilian population spread out through the country would simply have been exterminated in combat against an industrialized, efficient, heavily armed military dictatorship.

Just as here, as Edgy rightly stated above, the possession of assault rifles by civilians won't protect Rocker and his brethren from Apache helicopters, or Abrams tanks rolling in under cover of MQ1 Predator drones launching Hellfire missiles, or hundreds of thousands of ground troops armed with M4 carbine rifles and all manner of explosive tech. So lets stop with the insurrection nonsense.

Benjamin Grimm
Jan 16 2013 09:19 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

It's always struck me as strange to think that any government would say that treason is an inalienable right.

Mets – Willets Point
Jan 16 2013 09:22 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

Vic Sage wrote:
it would have simply been a holocaust of a different sort. An armed civilian population spread out through the country would simply have been exterminated in combat against an industrialized, efficient, heavily armed military dictatorship.



Kind of like the Warsaw Uprising which ended with 200,000 civilian deaths and the city destroyed. It took 7 years and the combined military forces of dozens of countries to actually topple the Nazis and end the Holocaust.

Edgy MD
Jan 16 2013 09:31 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

From the secret minutes of the last cabinet meeting:

Mr. President, we really need to round up the populace that isn't cooperating wi... oh, shit, I just checked Rocker's Facebook page and he got a new Herstal. OK, new course of action...

Edgy MD
Jan 16 2013 09:43 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

So, to be clear, Rocker's undeniable fact is, in fact deniable.

And now that Jews, as represented by Israel, are armed TO THE TEETH, including their unofficial possession of a nuclear arsenal, every day of their lives is still an existential threat.

Nice to know Rocker loves Jews, though.

cooby
Jan 16 2013 10:31 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

metirish wrote:
WOW...

Rocker wrote

“Absolute certainties are a rare thing in this life,” he continued, “but one I think can be collectively agreed upon is the undeniable fact that the Holocaust would have never taken place had the Jewish citizenry of Hitler’s Germany had the right to bear arms and defended themselves with those arms."


I'm surprised Rocker admits the Holocaust really took place

themetfairy
Jan 16 2013 10:55 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

cooby wrote:
metirish wrote:
WOW...

Rocker wrote

“Absolute certainties are a rare thing in this life,” he continued, “but one I think can be collectively agreed upon is the undeniable fact that the Holocaust would have never taken place had the Jewish citizenry of Hitler’s Germany had the right to bear arms and defended themselves with those arms."


I'm surprised Rocker admits the Holocaust really took place


Thanks cooby - that made me laugh.

Edgy MD
Jan 16 2013 10:56 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

The president acts:

[list:2ldwy88c]Just Now: Twenty-Three Executive Actions Taken on Guns

1. "Issue a presidential memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system."

2. "Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system."

3. "Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system."

4. "Direct the attorney general to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks."

5. "Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun."

6. "Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers."

7. "Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign."

8. "Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission)."

9. "Issue a presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations."

10. "Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement."

11. "Nominate an ATF director."

12. "Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations."

13. "Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime."

14. "Issue a presidential memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence."

15. "Direct the attorney general to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies."

16. "Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes."

17. "Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities."

18. "Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers."

19. "Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education."

20. "Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover."

21. "Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges."

22. "Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations."

23. "Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health."[/list:u:2ldwy88c]

Some of them seem rather vague and nowhere-bound. I'm surprise this all went down so fast. Not sure how I feel about that.

TransMonk
Jan 16 2013 11:11 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

Vic Sage wrote:
So it was all a conspiracy to grab their guns? Wow.
This kind of paranoid delusional mindset is consistent with the base of the NRA, and Tea Party extremists in general, for that matter.

Because, lets face facts here, when the NRA and the Wacko Right resist a ban on military grade weapons, and common-sense regulation of all other firearms, they obviously aren't defending the rights of people to hunt, or the right of people to have a handgun in their homes to protect their loved ones, or even the right of the States [not individuals] to maintain a regular and well-ordered militia (which was the sole stated purpose of the 2nd Amendment). They are not even fighting for the right of everybody to violently resist illegal govt action, since they fought AGAINST the Black Panther party's efforts to publicly carry guns back in the 60s.

The NRA is, instead, defending only the rights of the white lunatic fringe, which are its constituency, to maintain stockpiles of weapons of sufficient stopping power to stage an insurrection should the country be taken over by "them" (and "them" includes Muslim foreign-born communist Presidents, and illegals crawling over the border stealing our jobs and tipping our elections to the Left, and the Northeast intellectual liberal media establishment [i.e., Jews], and the underemployed undereducated inner-city criminal underclass with their hands out [i.e., Blacks], and those corrupt tax-and-spend politicians illegally seizing property (i.e. freely elected government workers engaged in their constitutionally mandated obligation to tax)). And as far as they're concerned, the first and clearest example of such an apocalyptic event is when the government comes for their guns. So they need guns to fight the government that wants to come for their guns. Of course, if they didn't have the guns, the government wouldn't have to come for them... but then what they revolt over? I mean, they're revolting anyway, but that's a separate matter.

Never before has the agenda of the NRA been so nakedly exposed for what they are... a powerful, wealthy, intimidating lobbying organization for gun manufacturers and the wacko fringe that supports them, waiting for their chance to "take their country back" over the dead bodies of school children and the mentally ill. And i guess their efforts are effective, too, because they sure make ME want to buy a gun... to defend my family from them and theirs. Which is, of course, their dream... Fort America, where force is met with force, everyone's armed, law & order goes to the biggest gun, and anyone can get caught in the crossfire.

Where is the leadership on the Right telling these fuckers to shut the hell up? It has to come from the Right, because that constituency clearly has no interest in what the Left has to say (or federal, state and local law enforcement agencies, or the commander in chief, or the parents of dead children). Of course, they've been systematically targeting the rational voices on the Right for elimination in the Republican primary process, so there are fewer and fewer such voices left (or brave enough to stand up to them).

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jan 16 2013 11:37 AM
Re: An Elementary School?

Bravo, Vic.

And the exec orders sound vague because while BO can shift the spotlight and adjust/support law enforcement goals, legislation has to come from legislators.

As for the "going down so fast," well... see above. The talk about mental health can't hurt.

metirish
Jan 16 2013 01:53 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 16 2013 03:24 PM

Sandy Hook truthers inspire MLB player to "wonder"



Those Goddamn Sandy Hook Truthers Got Their Hooks In Denard Span

Tom Ley
If you don't know what a Sandy Hook Truther is, take a moment to read Max Read of Gawker's illuminating look into their strange world. Basically, they are people who believe that the Sandy Hook shooting was actually some kind of elaborate hoax perpretrated by the government, because everything is an elaborate hoax perpetrated by the government in the eyes of these crazies. YouTube videos alleging such a hoax have been popping up all over the internet, poisoning the minds of people like Washington Nationals center fielder Denard Span.

I was watching some controversial stuff on YouTube about the sandy hooks thing today! It really makes u think and wonder

— Denard Span (@thisisdspan) January 16, 2013


No, Denard! Those people are lunatics! Don't listen to them. Turn off your computer right now!




http://deadspin.com/5976532/those-godda ... enard-span

Edgy MD
Jan 16 2013 02:02 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

I watched a few minutes of that video. I just had to.

You know, gross indifference to standardized spelling is a good way to tell if somebody telling you hidden truths on the internet has actually put as much critical thinking into the issue as he or she claims.

metirish
Jan 16 2013 03:26 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

Just saw an NRA TV commercial that talked about Obama's kids and how they have armed guards so why doesn't he want them for your children?

Pretty fucking low stuff.

Vic Sage
Jan 16 2013 03:35 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

we do have armed guards; they're called policemen. as for Obama's kids' guards, they are specially trained individuals who are obliged to give their lives for those kids, and those kids are walking targets for every wacko on the planet. Guarding them is the least we can do for anybody willing to be president who puts himself and his family in the crosshairs.

but this is all sleight of hand to distract from their defense of the indefensible.

cooby
Jan 16 2013 03:39 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

themetfairy wrote:
cooby wrote:
metirish wrote:
WOW...

Rocker wrote

“Absolute certainties are a rare thing in this life,” he continued, “but one I think can be collectively agreed upon is the undeniable fact that the Holocaust would have never taken place had the Jewish citizenry of Hitler’s Germany had the right to bear arms and defended themselves with those arms."


I'm surprised Rocker admits the Holocaust really took place


Thanks cooby - that made me laugh.



Didn't mean it as a funny, but I am glad it loaned some levity to a bad subject ;)

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jan 16 2013 04:43 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

Edgy MD wrote:
I watched a few minutes of that video. I just had to.


Same.

My "favorite," I think, are the "these parents are obviously not grieving" bits.

metirish wrote:
Just saw an NRA TV commercial that talked about Obama's kids and how they have armed guards so why doesn't he want them for your children?

Pretty fucking low stuff.


I know the President is required by federal law to accept Secret Service protection; I'm not certain about the family, but... it stands to reason, doesn't it?

metirish
Jan 16 2013 05:33 PM
Re: An Elementary School?

Yes it stands to reason, but these people don't act like reasonable at all.