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Kinder, Gentler Gotham Thread
G-Fafif Dec 06 2005 12:56 AM |
My Gotham homies are in Dallas tracking down winter meetings news as it happens. Me, I bring you no scoops and no sources. Just this:
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MFS62 Dec 06 2005 08:01 AM |
That was scary.
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Johnny Dickshot Dec 06 2005 08:05 AM |
From an Angel perspective, that was a swap of their Greatest Player Ever for their Greatest Player Ever. Has any other team ever done such a thing?
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MFS62 Dec 06 2005 08:45 AM |
From the reactions of fans of both teams at the time (and since*), I would think the Rocky Colavito for Harvey Kuenn trade came close.
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seawolf17 Dec 06 2005 08:48 AM |
That was fun to read; nice job by GB.
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MFS62 Dec 06 2005 09:32 AM |
In case you forgot, here's mine. I have a friend who calls himself GADawg, who is a big Reds fan. We got into a discussion about Pete Rose. And one year I worte this just for him.
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G-Fafif Dec 06 2005 11:45 AM |
Good stuff, MF!
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rpackrat Dec 06 2005 12:23 PM |
Nice story, but I'm not sure what your point is. Are you arguing that a GM should never trade young players for veterans on the off chance that one of those young players might become a Nolan Ryan? Follwowing that logic, we never would have traded Floyd Youmans, Mike Fitzgerald, Herm Winningham and Hubie Brooks for Gary Carter, or Preston Wilson, Ed Yarnall and Geoff Goetz for Mike Piazza. Hindsight is always 20-20 and it's easy to criticize the Ryan-Fregosi trade, but a hard rule against trading prospects for vets makes no sense. Most prospects do not become impact players. That we tend to remember when we trade one of those very few does not change this fact.
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Edgy DC Dec 06 2005 12:33 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 06 2005 10:55 PM |
The record shows, though, that the Mets have been scrod on this score far more often than not.
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G-Fafif Dec 06 2005 01:12 PM |
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Never's a long time and no, it's not my point. If anything, I've spent the winter defending Omar's moves. I want to win now. I want to win now every year. The Mets are a little short on having won now, so I'm all for taking a shot with the players who have the best chance of making it so. But everything is a risk-reward situation and sometimes the risk yields no to little reward. The next Nolan Ryan is one possible outcome. The next Gary Carter or Mike Piazza -- the veteran acquired pays off and is worth the youngsters sent in exchange -- is also a possible outcome. I was just having fun with one of those outcomes. For the record, as a 9-year-old I thought 1) Good. Nolan Ryan's never going to become a winning pitcher. 2) Fregosi? Isn't he a shortstop? And we're getting him to play third base? That doesn't make any sense. Oh well. I was halfway there.
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Yancy Street Gang Dec 06 2005 01:31 PM |
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Really? My impression is that the Nolan Ryan deal was more the exception than the rule. I think of some of the other young players that I regretted losing: Shawn Abner, David West, Alex Escobar, Billy Beane, Terrence Long... Some of the deals were better than others, but I can't think of many veteran for youth deals involving the Mets where the team that acquired the youth fared appreciably better. And in at least one of the cases the Mets ended up doing better, such as Mazzilli for Darling and Terrell.
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smg58 Dec 06 2005 07:52 PM |
Jason Isringhausen for Billy Taylor. Melvin Mora for Mike Bordick. And Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano has already benefited the D-Rays more than the Mets; the only detail remaining is how much more. The verdict is still out on whether not waiting for two months on Benson was worth parting with Huber, although it doesn't look like the Bucs have anything to show for that exchange.
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Elster88 Dec 06 2005 09:36 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 07 2005 04:34 PM |
Edit: I'm confused.
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Edgy DC Dec 06 2005 11:15 PM |
I don't get it. He just listed two young players --- one considered a washout and the other considered a marginal prospect --- who were dealt for veteran players who offered little to the Mets for a short while. Both went on to all-star careers they're still enjoying
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G-Fafif Dec 07 2005 03:52 PM |
A couple of noteworthy Met items on Gotham today, both from Mike McGann in Dallas.
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G-Fafif Dec 07 2005 03:55 PM |
A couple of noteworthy Met items on Gotham today, both from Mike McGann in Dallas.
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Frayed Knot Dec 07 2005 04:18 PM |
The 'Blame the rich owner's son' route is always easy and seemed just a bit too convenient for my taste. I think a lot of fans (and media) simply decided to hate or blame "Jeffy" first and not even bother with asking the questions as to whether he actually deserved it or not.
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Johnny Dickshot Dec 07 2005 04:24 PM |
I've turned into such a cynical bastard I'm half-wondering what favors he's paying back but a fine point about the stereotyping of Jeff Wilpon anyway.
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Zvon Dec 07 2005 04:41 PM |
I read this story last night and it was a lil scary.
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Frayed Knot Dec 07 2005 10:10 PM |
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Sizemore was dealt (with others) for Bartolo Colon so it's tough to argue that he was "given away". You can certainly question the wisdom and timing of that trade plus the subsequent one that sent Colon away after a short stint in Montreal, but Omar and the 'Spos were certainly operating under a different set of circumstances.
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G-Fafif Dec 10 2005 03:41 PM |
Sweet and cinematic reminiscence on Kong (or Sky King)...
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MFS62 Dec 10 2005 04:10 PM |
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Sky King? I remember that tv show. I had the hots for his niece, Penny. Later
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Johnny Dickshot Dec 10 2005 04:40 PM |
I have similar memories of that crushing night for Met hopes.
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Edgy DC Dec 10 2005 06:51 PM |
Bruce Boisclair replaced Kong and had two hits.
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Johnny Dickshot Dec 10 2005 10:48 PM |
Yeah but you knew it was over anyway.
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Edgy DC Dec 10 2005 11:01 PM |
That name is too common to isolate.
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Johnny Dickshot Dec 10 2005 11:04 PM |
I have no idea what became of him, but I'd start looking in the police blotters.
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Mark Healey Dec 11 2005 07:34 PM |
http://www.gothambaseball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1782
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Edgy DC Dec 12 2005 07:56 PM |
How 'bout that Adam Ross? Dave Kingman was the most popular lookup yesterday.
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Mark Healey Dec 14 2005 08:10 PM |
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LOL..it's Aaron Ross...and I'll pass along the love...
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Edgy DC Dec 14 2005 08:11 PM |
Mark, stick around for the chat with Steve Zabriskie.
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Mark Healey Dec 14 2005 08:12 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 14 2005 09:54 PM |
A couple of updates:
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Mark Healey Dec 14 2005 08:13 PM |
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I will...thanks
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Nymr83 Dec 14 2005 09:32 PM |
"file not found" on the top one of the 3 links, healey. (the other 2 are working fine)
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Mark Healey Dec 14 2005 09:54 PM |
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Fixed...and thanks for the heads up...
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G-Fafif Dec 15 2005 03:57 PM |
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Mike McGann's column offers an unusual behind-the-curtain look into how the Winter Meetings operate. Check out how much drinking goes on. The same piece also goes in the anti-igNoble direction and talks up a Met beat writer doing a heckuva job. http://www.gothambaseball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1822
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G-Fafif Dec 21 2005 03:18 PM |
Weekly newsletter available from Gotham Baseball. Free if you sign up (no spamming either). Sample provided here sans the ads (because it's Xmas/Xnukah). If you'd like to receive it regularly, just sign up here:
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Bret Sabermetric Dec 21 2005 05:13 PM |
Matsui will accept a trade to LA, so why are the Mets offering Hernandez?
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Yancy Street Gang Dec 21 2005 05:17 PM |
I'm sure the Mets would rather deal Matsui than Hernandez. Maybe the Dodgers prefer Hernandez to Matsui. (He is cheaper.)
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Bret Sabermetric Dec 21 2005 05:42 PM |
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So am I sure. But we're not in the business of giving the Dodgers our young, affordable prospects for their over the hill 2b men who will make us sit Matui.
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Elster88 Dec 21 2005 09:05 PM |
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Who are we talking about here? Mo Vaughn? Robbie Alomar? Keep up with current events. Or do you mean Delgado and Wagner? Sure, if I had my druthers, I'd rather have two fat-ass, forty-year-old, broken-down has-beens (apparently non-retreads because they aren't old enough) like Wells and Schilling heading my rotation in 2006. But I'll take the Met retreads of Pedro and Glavine if I have to. Just me wearing my blue and orange spectacles. (No, I'm not mad, just passing along some updated roster info. The hire-a-retread policy isn't in effect anymore.)
What's this "we" stuff? You back on the bandwagon? Maybe since the Met outlook in '06 is better than the Sawx you're going to dust off the old Met cap?
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Bret Sabermetric Dec 21 2005 09:21 PM |
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Slipped up.
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Elster88 Dec 22 2005 09:56 AM |
Come back to the side of truth and justice.
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Johnny Dickshot Jan 03 2006 05:58 PM |
Interesting piece by Dubya today.
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G-Fafif Jan 03 2006 07:24 PM |
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Or a private household laundress. There were 372 of those living in New York in 1950, according to that year's Census, zero now. I couldn't think of a tasteful way to work that into the column, though I suppose more dirty laundry gets aired now versus then. And it barely goes through the rinse cycle.
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