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Mientkiewicz Praise Thread

Bret Sabermetric Dec 12 2005 10:19 AM

My hero. At last, a Met with the guts and insight to tell like it is. Naturally, he's the first Met in a long while of any note to be deprived of a "Memories of..." thread (unless I missed it). But what a guy. Has anyone noted the irony that Miekiewicz (whose name, I think, I've finally learned how to spell) in trashing the Mets for their institutional cluelessness, is perhaps the best exemplum of that cluelessness? Opting for him over Delgado as 2004's firstbaseman (and don't let anyone try to tell you the Mets couldn't have signed Carlos a year ago if they'd had a clue between them, or a testicle) while signing Pedro and Beltran is the clearest sign of the Mets having their heads up their asses. But his departure, as far I've been able to tell, has been met (so to speak)around here with only reflections on his treacherousness, his ingratitude, his disappointing play. Where's the love, people? This man, now wandering in the Wildnerness, is preaching the good word, and do you take him into your hearts? (Where's that damned avatar when I need it?)

metirish Dec 12 2005 10:22 AM

Elster88 Dec 12 2005 10:35 AM

]Opting for him over Delgado as 2004's firstbaseman This did not happen. ] (and don't let anyone try to tell you the Mets couldn't have signed Carlos a year ago if they'd had a clue between them, or a testicle) while signing Pedro and Beltran is the clearest sign of the Mets having their heads up their asses You went away for three months, don't you have anything new to say?

Bret Sabermetric Dec 12 2005 10:38 AM

]You went away for three months, don't you have anything new to say? Sure. I'd like to discuss Mientkiewicz's comments, unless you can point me to the hundreds of threads that the CPF has diligently devoted to examining them in those three months. How come I've got to come up with new material, btw, yet everyone else can just blather and repeat and blather some more without your getting on their cases, Elster? Couldn't have anything to do with my perspective on the Mets' competence, could it? Nah, didn't think so.

sharpie Dec 12 2005 10:42 AM

He was a good fielder.

Johnny Dickshot Dec 12 2005 10:58 AM

Memories of Mientkiewicz: * Gave excellent quotes all season long. * Balls-out old-school baserunning play, the kind Sal condemns the Mets for never making, and which we probably will never see from Carlos Delgado, results in a back injury robbing any momentum he might have regained shortly after returning from the DL the first time. * Seemed perplexed all year, not only by opposing pitchers, but by how his performance was rated. To me he appeared frustrated at the lack of credit he was getting for starting the year on what was, for him, a career-best HR rate. In retrospect I think he was a smart enough guy to realize the team's offense wouldn't get it done most nights and so tried to be the power hitter he wasn't. * Got mad at the Mets for rehabbing him in St. Lucie and, I suspect, eventually became a malcontent. I think he recognized the Mets made up their minds about his future sometime in August, and he went through that weird period when you just know that girl is going to dump you, you just don't know when. * Ripped the club for above perceived offenses when finally dumped. * Very good fielder * Didn;t reach base enough * Saddened at the prospect of his career as a starting player coming to an end

Yancy Street Gang Dec 12 2005 11:01 AM

Here's my take on last year's first base situation: The Mets clearly preferred Delgado to Mientkiewicz. Their cluelessness doesn't extend as far as thinking that the two were equally capable. The Mets botched their attempt to sign Delgado. The recent revelation that they alienated him by speaking "street Spanish" to him rings true to me. (I don't know for sure whether or not it's true, but I tend to believe it.) So I don't think last year's failure was because of an unwillingness to pony up the dough, I think it was more because they got a poor read on how Delgado would react to that approach. (It seems like a foolish approach to me, and I would have been as put off by it as Delgado was, but I guess Martinez and Beltran felt differently. Or else the big dollars allowed them to disregard the insult.) Their Plan B was a bad one. I'll admit to hoping that Mientkiewicz would be better than he was. (What else could I do?) He started nicely in April, and I was able to briefly allow myself to think that the Mets would be okay at first base for the year. I knew nothing about Mientkiewicz before he got here, and my hope was that the Mets knew something good about him that I didn't. Now it's clear that he was a bad choice. I don't remember what other first base options there were after Delgado signed with Florida, but the Mets certainly should have spent more time considering them. Minaya likes to act quickly: It helped him get Delgado and Wagner this year, but that same tendency seems to have caused him to embrace Mientkiewicz too quickly last year. I don't regret losing the player the Mets traded to Boston, but I do think they could have done better at first base, even without Delgado.

Bret Sabermetric Dec 12 2005 11:21 AM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: he appeared frustrated at the lack of credit he was getting for starting the year on what was, for him, a career-best HR rate. But wasn't he getting a lot of praise and credit? Just reading the CPF and the dailies, I thought he was being hailed as the new King Jesus for a small-sample blip on the radar. Between his hostility, and Anna Benson's recent tirade, do you think maybe Omar is informally and unofficially promising stuff he has no intention of delivering, if push comes to shove? That is, telling Mienkiewicz, "You're our guy at 1B, no matter what" (but when the team goes in the tank, and Mientkiewicz goes belly-up, he loses his job and Omar has one pissed-off player on his hands.) Likewise, telling the Bensons that they have, in effect, a no-trade clause because New York and the Mets just LO-O-O-O-OVE them, only when Kris has a bad few months, not so much, giving us two more pissed-off players. (Anna's signed to a contract, right?) Seems to me after a while, this reputation will come back to bite Omar in his ass, and players and agents will know that Omar's word is worthless (if indeed he's promising such stuff). Yancy, I agree with your take on Delgado, just between us Hispanics (who all think and react alike), but I also think that if the Mets had been willing to pay Delgado ONLY WHAT THEY ENDED UP PAYING FOR HIM (and Mientkiewicz) ANYWAY, he coud have been signed. That comes down to his actual contract, plus the 250,000 he earned above Mientkiwicz in 2005, plus the value of the prospects (Bladdergroan and the kids we gave up for Delgado, minus the draft picks the Mets will lose). They weren't willing to go this far because of some stupid idea about their budgetary limits, based on having signed Piazza to a 7 year contract six years ago, the worst kind of self-destructive self-loathing thinking I can imagine. Overspend, Fred, if you're signing up stars in thier 30s right and left anyway. It will take a while for me to get over the contempt I feel for them for this policy in 2005.

Rotblatt Dec 12 2005 11:26 AM

What Yancy said, although at the time, I thought our Plan B was a decent one. Not much point getting into the specifics, as I was pretty clearly wrong in my belief that Mientkiewicz could bounce back. I loved watching him play, though--like JD said, a real balls-to-the-walls kind of guy. As for my take on last year in general, Sal, I honestly think we had enough offense to get to the playoffs, but three things stopped us from making it: 1) leaving Heilman in the back-end of the pen for much of the season; 2) leaving Seo in the minors for too long; and 3) luck (we underperformed our Pythagorean projection by around 6 games, IIRC). And while you weren't around a lot of last season, you'll be happy to know that I ripped management (mostly Willie) for the first two items pretty much all season long. I think I got a little pedantic about it, as a matter of fact.

smg58 Dec 12 2005 11:26 AM

The Mets took a big gamble with Pedro, that thankfully has paid off so far, and really did shoot the moon for Beltran. They didn't pursue Delgado the same way. Pedro and Beltran got the red carpet; Delgado got insulted by Bernazard and was pursued on the whole with more caution, and that made choosing between two comparable contract offers easy. You could certainly argue that adding several million or another guaranteed year to the offer would have been fiscally irresponsible, but then how do you justify the Beltran deal? As far as Mintkiewicz goes, the question is what were the Mets' other options if they didn't sign Delgado? I felt like he gave the Mets what they could reasonably expect for a relatively small cost, and I see no reason to grumble at him.

Yancy Street Gang Dec 12 2005 11:33 AM

]That is, telling Mienkiewicz, "You're our guy at 1B, no matter what" (but when the team goes in the tank, and Mientkiewicz goes belly-up, he loses his job and Omar has one pissed-off player on his hands.) Likewise, telling the Bensons that they have, in effect, a no-trade clause because New York and the Mets just LO-O-O-O-OVE them, only when Kris has a bad few months, not so much, giving us two more pissed-off players. (Anna's signed to a contract, right?) I doubt that Omar ever made such a promise to Mientkiewicz. Why would he? He wasn't wooing Doug as a free agent; he was a trade acquisition. And he shouldn't make such promises, and any player that hears a promise like that should take it with a shaker of salt. Maybe you could do that "no matter what" thing with a rookie whose confidence you're trying to maintain, or even to a player to whom you have a long-term financial commitment. But to Doug Mientkiewicz? I don't think so. I'm more inclined to agree with your take on Benson. Benson was wooed. In fact, he was a free agent who was so schmoozed that he didn't even talk to any other teams. And other than missing April, he pitched about as well as we could reasonably have expected. (We could have hoped for more, but we really couldn't have expected much more.) If Omar's really switching gears on Benson, and it appears that he is, that should be a red flag to any future free agents the Mets try to court. It can very well cause him trouble down the road. Any free agents talking to the Mets should get as much of a no-trade as they can. Omar's impulsive, and he's fickle. I'm not calling for his head, though. He is making the team better, but it's not hard to find fault with some of the decisions he's made.

HappyRecap Dec 12 2005 11:37 AM For what it is worth

You know it is slow when we are rambling on about Mienkiewicz, but I agree with Dickshot that they were through with him by August. He delivered the glove as promised but that batting average was abysmal since that .240 had long stretches where he was down around .210. If he wanted credit for his home run production, not even the Doug Mienkiewicz fan club, if there is one, could not laugh at that one. He had 11 HRs in over 80 games, Jacobs had 11 in 30. 'Nuff said. But being a Mets fan and knowing their bad luck, just watch Doug M go and hit .300 for somebody next year and win a Gold Glove.

Elster88 Dec 12 2005 11:39 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 12 2005 11:44 AM

]How come I've got to come up with new material, btw, yet everyone else can just blather and repeat and blather some more without your getting on their cases, Elster? Obviously you don't read many of my posts. I get on everyone's case equally. You're assuming I single you out. Perhaps you're incorrect that I'm getting on your case simply because you bash the Mets? Nah, didn't think so.

sharpie Dec 12 2005 11:39 AM

Can't imagine that there's a team out there that will hire him as their full-time first baseman after his last coupla years.

Bret Sabermetric Dec 12 2005 11:41 AM

Grumbling? I'm all for retiring his number. As for our options after failing to sign Delgado, don't forget about hari-kari. If we were the in Japanese League, that would have been Omar's only honorable choice. We did have some fair slugging 1B men available, forget who just now, but I would have found some cheap AAA type (Jacobs?), the kind of slugging prospect/suspect types that are always available and taken a flyer on one of them. In retrospect, can you honestly tell me that promoting Jacobs (or acquiring someone with similar credentials) in the spring would have resulted in a worse record last year? This isn''t the thread for such a discussion, but the Mets' inability to trust their own judgment in scouting players has cost them very dearly. Still does. Money on Valentin and Franco is money very poorly spent. Mientkiewicz (I give up--I still don't know how to spell it, never will) done his best, and gave good effort and good interview, as Dickshot notes, all year. And nothing became his first-base play like leaving it.

Yancy Street Gang Dec 12 2005 11:41 AM

]Can't imagine that there's a team out there that will hire him as their full-time first baseman after his last coupla years. I agree. From here on in, I think Doug will be playing more golf than baseball.

Elster88 Dec 12 2005 11:43 AM

]Just reading the CPF and the dailies, I thought he was being hailed as the new King Jesus for a small-sample blip on the radar. I remember events differently. Personally, I went the entire year bashing people for saying that Minky's defense would offset what we didn't get from Delgado's bat. There was also an entire thread devoted to comparing their numbers throughout the year, which clearly highlighted what we were missing. Perhaps your memory is selective? Nah, didn't think so.

KC Dec 12 2005 11:46 AM

I didn't miss the twisted judgement of how us Mets fans behave. Nope, not one bit. I have no memories of Mienkiewicz worth posting, probably because he kinda sucked. Funny how the Red Sox of all teams didn't want him either.

ScarletKnight41 Dec 12 2005 11:50 AM

MK wore number 16 in Little League All stars and he played first base a lot, so he enjoyed it when he'd be on the field and I'd call to him, "Hey, Mientkiewicz!" So sue us for not hating the man.

MFS62 Dec 12 2005 11:53 AM

Bret Sabermetric wrote: We did have some fair slugging 1B men available, forget who just now, but I would have found some cheap AAA type (Jacobs?), the kind of slugging prospect/suspect types that are always available and taken a flyer on one of them. Y'mean like Tony Clark? Once the Mets lost out on Delgado, I wanted them to sign him instead of trading for Mientkiewicz. Of course in 20-20 hindsight, if they had, the Mets might not have promoted Jacobs and given him a chance to show what he could do in the majors. As a result, they might not now have Delgado. You never know. Later

Johnny Dickshot Dec 12 2005 11:56 AM

Bret Sabermetric wrote: But wasn't he getting a lot of praise and credit? Just reading the CPF and the dailies, I thought he was being hailed as the new King Jesus for a small-sample blip on the radar. Between his hostility, and Anna Benson's recent tirade, do you think maybe Omar is informally and unofficially promising stuff he has no intention of delivering, if push comes to shove? I don't know. Minky in the end performed on the low end of expectations, the two separate injuries being a factor, but within a range that wasn't entirely unexpected. I don't recall anyone here being convinced the spate of early season HRs was the "real" Meintkiewicz and remember, they came in amid otherwise disappointing OBP/BA numbers, so they didn't fool me. My comment was more along the lines of what I suspect Mientkiewicz felt. I'd also say that his acquissition was hardly oversold: The Mets highlighted his positives (glove) and reminded us it was a short committment during which DM would be given the opportunity to play. And the whole "giving up on him" thing I referenced was more Willie than Omar. The ironical thing regarding the discussion of a Benson deal, of course, is that Omar isn't too dumb to realize that for all the criticism of the contract he gave Benson, it looks like a pretty good deal this winter specifically amid an overall shortage of available starting pitchers; and as tracked in the Benson Bunch thread for the benefit of interested observers and crybabies alike, KB pitched nearly as well as any of the similarly-contracted guys, better than most of them, and until a really crappy final 1.5 months, better than all of them. I'd prefer the Mets not get in the habit of catching and releasing when it comes to free agents. Wasn't that your theme song re: Piazza?

metsmarathon Dec 12 2005 01:17 PM

"Mientkiewicz (I give up--I still don't know how to spell it, never will)" don't give up now - you've just got it right!

Bret Sabermetric Dec 12 2005 02:19 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: [ I don't recall anyone here being convinced the spate of early season HRs was the "real" Meintkiewicz Ah, for a functioning archive... . Johnny Dickshot wrote: I'd prefer the Mets not get in the habit of catching and releasing when it comes to free agents. Wasn't that your theme song re: Piazza? I've had so many theme songs re: Piazza--can you restate what you think my theme song was here, please? Don't recognize "catch and release" re: Piazza, other than he couldn't catch and when he released, the ball usually got to second base on six hops.

Yancy Street Gang Dec 12 2005 02:38 PM

It's too bad that most of what was posted in April and May is lost: that's probably the time when you'd find the most positive thoughts about Mientkiewicz. Here's what I was able to find in the archives: http://www.getalifealready.com/cpf/archives/f1_t317.shtml http://www.getalifealready.com/cpf/archives/f1_t350.shtml http://www.getalifealready.com/cpf/archives/f1_t847.shtml http://www.getalifealready.com/cpf/archives/f1_t949.shtml http://www.getalifealready.com/cpf/archives/f1_t999.shtml Mientkiewicz on ezBoard

Edgy DC Dec 12 2005 02:52 PM

Wunnerful.

Bret Sabermetric Dec 12 2005 06:24 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: It's too bad that most of what was posted in April and May is lost: that's probably the time when you'd find the most positive thoughts about Mientkiewicz. Thanks, Yancy. Yes, the premature gloating was early on. But thanks for trying. I'm glad Dickshot reminded me of Mientkiewicz's basepath derring-do. I must have blotted oitout, but he did play hard when he played. You're never glad to see someone get hurt, but if he's hurt hustling, I don't mind it so much. The guys who play to avoid getting hurt (and who get hurt anyway) really piss me off.

Johnny Dickshot Dec 12 2005 07:02 PM

That was a cool play if you recall, and it turned out to be one of the shark-jumping, pennant fever innoculating series of 2005. We'd just beaten Milwaukee in 11 innings the night before (Zambrano knocked out of the box early, we rally, they go ahead, Cameron goes deep of Turnbow in bottom 9th, then singles off Hall's glove in the 11th -- Piazza later walks with the bases loaded to win it). This night, Pedro starts, we go ahead, Minky makes a nice diving catch/DP to save him, but WWSB can't trust anyone but Looper and Hernandez for the millionth game in a row and they each cough up runs. In the 9th Mientkiewicz singles (3rd hit of the game) and is on first when Anderson grounds to second. Minky does a barrell roll in the basepath to knock out Weeks and spoil the DP, but the rally falls short. The day after THAT, Benson gets rocked but we score 9 runs anyway. WWSB goes to Hernandez -- again! -- and he coughs up half a dozen runs in the 9th. Ugh.

Johnny Dickshot Dec 13 2005 01:26 PM

Evidence of that hard sell the Mets fed us Lunchbuckets: (Jan. 26, 2005) Mets acquire first baseman Doug Mientkiewicz The New York Mets today acquired first baseman Doug Mientkiewicz and conditional cash considerations from the Boston Red Sox in exchange for minor league first baseman Ian Bladergroen. Mientkiewicz, 30, owns a .996 career fielding percentage at first base (21 errors in 5,658 total chances) and has twice hit .300 or better (.300 in 2003 and .306 in 2001). The 6-2, 206-pound lefthanded batter also earned the 2001 American League Gold Glove Award. "Doug Mientkiewicz will solidify our infield with his brilliant defense and brings a .363 career on-base percentage to our line-up," said Mets General Manager Omar Minaya in making the announcement. Mientkiewicz hit .444 (4-9) with a double and an RBI in 11 post-season contests to help the Red Sox capture their first World Series in 86 years. Doug batted .215 (23-107) with six doubles, one triple, one home run and 10 RBIs in 49 games with Boston after he was acquired from Minnesota on July 31st in a four-team trade with the Twins, Expos and Cubs last season. Mientkiewicz batted .246 (70-284) with 18 doubles, five home runs and 25 RBIs in 78 games with the Twins last year. Mientkiewicz hit .300 (146-487) with 38 doubles, 11 home runs and 65 RBIs with 74 walks and 55 strikeouts in 142 games to help the Twins capture the American League Central in 2003. That year, he also led the AL in batting average during the day (.362), was sixth in road batting average (.325) and was tied for ninth in on-base percentage (.393). Doug established career-bests in batting average (.306), doubles (39), home runs (15) and RBIs (74) in 155 games in 2001. Bladergroen, 21, batted .342 (92-269) with 39 runs scored, 23 doubles, three triples, 13 home runs, 74 RBIs, with 25 walks and 55 strikeouts in 72 contests with Capital City (A) of the South Atlantic League. He sustained torn cartilage and damaged ligaments in his left wrist on July 1st at Augusta and missed the remaindered on the year after undergoing surgery.

Elster88 Dec 13 2005 02:39 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: That was a cool play if you recall, and it turned out to be one of the shark-jumping, pennant fever innoculating series of 2005. We'd just beaten Milwaukee in 11 innings the night before (Zambrano knocked out of the box early, we rally, they go ahead, Cameron goes deep of Turnbow in bottom 9th, then singles off Hall's glove in the 11th -- Piazza later walks with the bases loaded to win it). This night, Pedro starts, we go ahead, Minky makes a nice diving catch/DP to save him, but WWSB can't trust anyone but Looper and Hernandez for the millionth game in a row and they each cough up runs. In the 9th Mientkiewicz singles (3rd hit of the game) and is on first when Anderson grounds to second. Minky does a barrell roll in the basepath to knock out Weeks and spoil the DP, but the rally falls short. The day after THAT, Benson gets rocked but we score 9 runs anyway. WWSB goes to Hernandez -- again! -- and he coughs up half a dozen runs in the 9th. Ugh. Ugh indeed. Painful memories, this post brings back. I think I remember referencing these two games for like a month pointing out what a difference they would've been as we hung close to the Astros and Phillies in the WC race.

Johnny Dickshot Dec 13 2005 02:48 PM

Then we go and sweep the Cubs too. If nothing else I think we witnessed the intersection of those 2 clubs in the NL Flyover pecking order. With St Louis suffering some offseason losses, the Cubs doing a desperate, 2002-style Met makeover-on-the-fly, Pittsburgh still building & Houston losing its best asshat pitcher, anyone think this could be the year of the Beer?

sharpie Dec 13 2005 02:56 PM

Every year is Year of the Beer.

Edgy DC Dec 13 2005 04:38 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 13 2005 04:49 PM

It's hard to ever take the Brewers seriously. Don't know why I should be so rigid about them (despite the likes of Ben and Seaver Sheets), but I guess I am. I also guess a lot of their hope lies in how fast Prince Fielder develops. I think St. Louis is the team to beat until they aren't. I'll enjoy Pittsburgh this season, as a lot of their talent is blossoming at the same time. And I'm a bigger Frank Thomas fan now than I was last year.

Elster88 Dec 13 2005 04:48 PM

I have been assured of a monster season out of Fielder. They just had to cut some dead weight first.

OlerudOwned Dec 13 2005 04:58 PM

Elster88 wrote: I have been assured of a monster season out of Fielder. They just had to cut some dead weight first. I looked at your avatar, thought of the Jets, and wound up reading that as Fiedler, leading to a few seconds of complete confusion.

sharpie Dec 13 2005 05:09 PM

Who is giving you those assurances, Elster?